Open mike 09/09/2023

34 comments on “Open mike 09/09/2023 ”

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1. Mac1 1

   9 September 2023 at 10:11 am

   An example for Labour in the election, really!

   New Zealand beats England by eight wickets in the first ODI with over three overs to spare. Set a big total they stayed calm. The opposition's loose bowling got hammered and the batsmen showed focus and great shots to both sides of the wicket; especially remarkable was an ability to straight hit slow bowlers for six off the back foot.
   • Adrian 1.1

     9 September 2023 at 10:51 am

     Brilliant match report Mac, writing as it should be, its not too late for a career change.
   • Patricia Bremner 1.2

     9 September 2023 at 1:15 pm

     Enjoyed every moment Mac1. Great game.
2. Barfly 2

   9 September 2023 at 10:26 am

   I see the All Blacks have broken another record first ever defeat in pool stages at the world. I think that's a lot of grumpy New Zealanders
   • Adrian 2.1

     9 September 2023 at 10:52 am

     Its probably the kick in the arse they need. The final may well be a rerun.
     • Cricklewood 2.1.1

       9 September 2023 at 11:16 am

       Nah sadly we just dont have the personal to win this one. Were at an ebb in the teams cylcle with our great players at the end of their careers.
       • Sanctuary 2.1.1.1

         9 September 2023 at 11:46 am

         Pretty much.

         An aging team with a too much say, an incompetent board that can't be held to account and who appointed a medicority as coach in a triumph for the chummocracy, and all with so much denial you'd think they were on a felucca in Egypt.

         Actually, the lack of accountability or consequences for disasterous decisions made at board level that have led to the decline of the All Blacks brand is an almost perfect metaphor for the rotten state of much of the governance of NZ's endless parade of monopolies.
         • Peter 2.1.1.1.1

           9 September 2023 at 2:19 pm

           I'll get your assistance with fixing the first problem you identify – an 'ageing' team. In the squad of 33 there seem to be nine who've gone past 30 years.

           I'm going to cut them, too old, so who takes their places? A Smith, B Barrett, B Retallick, C Taylor, S Whitelock, D Coles, S Cane, O Tu'ungafasi, N Laulala.

           (11 are 25 or under.)
   • Mike the Lefty 2.2

     9 September 2023 at 1:16 pm

     If New Zealand get knocked out of the cup in the early knockout stages that will favour National as a lot of angry rugby followers will be spoiling to take out their frustration on someone – heads must roll! – and what better heads to roll than these wimpy Labour Greenies?

     I am being serious.

     Winning a major world competition is often a vote winner for the incumbent government anywhere in the world because happy people who don't particularly care about politics tend to stick to the status quo – vote for the government, whilst unhappy people vote for the opposition. The All Blacks getting knocked out just before voting day would not be good for Labour.

     Labour will be praying that the All Blacks are still in it come election day whilst the political right will be quietly hoping they won't. Of course that won't stop the NACTs taking credit if the ABs actually win the cup and the NACTS win the election, Luxon and Seymour will be offering up parades through Central Auckland – although that doesn't look so likely based on this morning's effort.
     • Blazer 2.2.1

       9 September 2023 at 2:50 pm

       The quarter finals begin on Oct 15th .The AB's will be there for sure.

       So if Natz win the election and the AB's are knocked out…the blame can be laid on !

       I can't see them winning.Too many older players,players playing out of position and a coach who couldn't coach a duck to…swim.
       • Peter 2.2.1.1

         9 September 2023 at 4:35 pm

         As above. There would seem to be nine players past 30 years old. If that's too many (out of 33), which from that list would you cull and who would you replace them with?
         • Blazer 2.2.1.1.1

           9 September 2023 at 5:10 pm

           Cull B.Barrett,A.Smith,S.Whitelock,S.Cane,B.Retallick,-put Jordan back to FB,R.Ione to wing,Roigard to HB,Savea at 7,Samisoni hooker,Williams.Lomax,LF-Jacobsen,Savea,centres J.Barret,Havili,wings Telea,Reiko…still working on…the rest.
   • Mac1 2.3

     9 September 2023 at 2:31 pm

     To continue the political analogies, the All Blacks incurred too many penalties, dropped the ball and kicked aimlessly at times. Too little time spent in the opposition's half.

     Some good play, though.

     The opposition however proved they were not as fit, were time-wasters and used cheating tactics to try to persuade the ref of foul play.

     Let's hope that we play better, that we get good coverage, that our commentators are unbiased and that we realise what is really important.

     Which is not rugby. It's our nation's life that is important. We should reject an opposition's desire to "take our country back" to old and useless attitudes and rules, promoting racism, elitism and all other forms of bigotry.

     We want in our country what we want from sport; fair play for all, level playing fields, access to good coaching, support for the injured, the right to play wherever, and the civil notion that we are all in a team, together.

     Justice for all. Equal opportunity for all. Education for all. Access to health care for all. Freedom from bigotry and hatred. Social cohesion.

     "In it for you" also means "In it for us" because to live in a society which practises these values benefits us all.
   • SPC 2.4

     9 September 2023 at 9:28 pm

     It would appear that their 4th ranking might well be accurate. If so, their first loss in a group stage might well be followed by a first win for Ireland in a quarter-final (and our second loss in one) should they finish second to South Africa in their group.

     In another tournament they would be a semi-final side. In this, if they win the quarter-final they look like losing in the final.

     They will have to re-think their kick in the air and chase game – because Jordan will be in the referee sights from now on (continuing with it after Jordan took out their full-back early was high risk and then after Jordan was carded and back on the field was madness). But the most notable thing about the game was that in the end the AB's gave up because whenever they attacked they lost the ball at the breakdown (were turned over and or penalised).

     So they have to work on their ball retention when they attack through the hand, play as a pack closer in more and kick in behind (on the ground and or not so high in the air – Carter style) for variation.

     It would be Stevenson for Narawa, but we might have a loose forward injury problem.
3. joe90 3

   9 September 2023 at 12:06 pm

   Cozen's brother dishes the dirt.

   https://www.newsroom.co.nz/i-would-never-forgive-him-says-act-candidates-client
4. Incognito 4

   9 September 2023 at 12:48 pm

   FWIW, the two parties that have moved the most on the Political Compass since the General Election in 2008 are ACT and NZ First.

   https://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2023

   On the Left-Right economic axis, ACT is as far Right as a party can be, i.e., “ultra-neoliberal”. On the Libertarian-Authoritarian social axis, ACT showed a dramatic shift southwards in 2020 (cf. 2017) and is now positioned almost as Libertarian as the Greens.

   The other big mover is NZ First, which not only jumped a fair bit to the Right in 2020 (cf. 2017) but also more towards the Authoritarian end of the social spectrum. It is now the most Authoritarian party in NZ on the Compass.

   It is also interesting to note that Labour has been gradually drifting rightward and towards Authoritarian, and is not and has not been a centre-Left party for quite some time (some might consider the inflection point as 1984).

   The commentary/analysis in the link is worth a read.
   • Christopher 4.1

     9 September 2023 at 9:02 pm

     [deleted]
     • Incognito 4.1.1

       9 September 2023 at 9:16 pm

       Stick to your approved username. You’re one step away of receiving a ban. Read the Mod notes and replies to your comments before you continue commenting here!
   • Drowsy M. Kram 4.2

     10 September 2023 at 8:24 am

     Interesting, thanks – compared to 2020, Labour has shifted slightly further right-of-centre, with Te Pāti Māori and then the Green Party still closest to and left of centre.

     Will our next govt foster the societal resilience (less inequality) needed to weather future economic/environmental shocks, or will our next govt sell public assets, cut taxes/welfare/services, and weaken worker rights?

     Party Vote GREEN – https://www.greens.org.nz/ending_poverty_together

     A shift to the right [8 September 2023]
     Despite their relatively good result, the SDP came third in the April election and ended up in the opposition. Only one percentage point more would have probably won the party the post of prime minister in the Finnish system. Now, however, an extreme right-wing government by Finnish standards was formed, in which the traditionally right-wing National Coalition Party (NCP) was joined by the populist Finns Party, known for their anti-foreigner and anti-EU stance. Despite the other two, smaller supporting parties, the government's majority in the parliament is slim. Nevertheless, it seems to be aiming for a systemic change with its program.

     Before the elections, the NCP and the Finns Party distinguished themselves from the left by advocating a significant reduction in the budget deficit, i.e. austerity measures. However, their government program seems to focus on weakening the negotiating position of employees and trade unions in various ways, as well as shrinking the welfare state. Compared to the pre-election promises, the government's fiscal consolidation seems to remain moderate, but it consists almost exclusively of cuts to social security benefits and public services. At the same time, the government intends to allocate significant tax reductions to the highest earners.
     • Incognito 4.2.1

       10 September 2023 at 9:47 am

       The political situation in Finland is despite the best education system in the world, apparently.
       • Drowsy M. Kram 4.2.1.1

         10 September 2023 at 1:38 pm

         Perhaps even very good extant education systems can at best delay regressive changes in these interesting times. We don't know how lucky we are, and were.
5. Temp ORary 5

   9 September 2023 at 1:14 pm

   I see what you mean about ACT between 2017 and 2020 – it looks like they took TOP's position for their own rather than keeping on as National's sock puppet. I am slightly curious about the methodology of how the charts were created, but not enough to dive into a Heritage Foundation website.
6. Ad 6

   9 September 2023 at 1:27 pm

   A big shoutout to Minister O'Connor and the MFAT, MPI and Crown Law team who took on the Canadians at the disputes panel of the CPTPP and won.

   https://www.newsroom.co.nz/business/nz-victory-over-canada-in-dairy-trade-dispute

   That's our team up against a far larger country, using a poorly tested disputes mechanism, and going a long way to getting reasonable dairy market access into the nortoriously protective Canadian market.

   A handsome end-of-term win for a quiet but very effective Trade minister.
   • Patricia Bremner 6.1

     9 September 2023 at 2:04 pm

     100% endorse that. Our Trade Minister has done us proud.
7. Macro 7

   9 September 2023 at 5:18 pm

   Talk about a "Coalition of Chaos"

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/election-2023/497636/act-s-david-seymour-floats-confidence-only-partnership-no-supply

   University of Otago law professor Andrew Geddis said he suspected ACT's gambit was "more of a negotiating ploy" than a solid position, but "if it's been mooted, and it's been said by one of the parties that this is something they're prepared to do, then I guess we have to take that seriously".

   However, it would make the next Budget in mid-2024 something of a crunch point – and indeed, every annual budget for the three-year term – and Prof Geddis believed the remaining disagreements over spending would need to be sorted out well before then.

   "If they can't get to an arrangement of what that looks like and they can't get a majority to vote for a Budget, at that point the government would fall apart," he said.
   • bwaghorn 7.1

     9 September 2023 at 6:05 pm

     https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300967527/act-party-loses-another-candidate-weeks-out-from-election

     Will they have any candidates left by election day?
     • Shanreagh 7.1.1

       9 September 2023 at 6:29 pm

       Hope not…ooops who said that!
   • weka 7.2

     9 September 2023 at 6:36 pm

     "I'd imagine in practice, the parties would come to an arrangement as to what their term's going to look like over the three years very quickly – they'd have to. If they tried to do it year on year, just sort of limping along, they wouldn't be able to make any long-term plans, they wouldn't be able to do any big picture developments."

     ACT working for the left, /darklol.
   • Ad 7.3

     9 September 2023 at 7:44 pm

     More likely that National would turn to Labour to form a budget if ACT went there.

     Since it would be negotiated, such a budget would look remarkably similar to the Labour one of 2023.

     ACT don't have a strong view of what the state is for, other than that it should protect life, liberty and property. They are proper Bentham Utilitarians. So if the state shrank as a result of sustained Parliamentary weakness apropos 1987-1996 then ACT have achieved their policy direction.
     • Graeme 7.3.1

       9 September 2023 at 9:49 pm

       Would be interesting to see a post / discussion on the effects on our democracy of a "Grand Coalition" of Labour and National, both over the initial term and the ongoing future of the two parties.
       • SPC 7.3.1.1

         9 September 2023 at 10:11 pm

         It would hold the Blairites and the blue greens, and those operating around management of the status quo.

         Social liberals and conservatives would have issues, as would social democrats and libertarians of small government.

         Social liberals and social democrats would go to the Greens who would flourish.

         The right would have the more of a problem, libertarians and social conservatives? Social conservatives do not necessarily support small government.

         NZF would receive those social conservative and in favour of a nationalist economy and government capability. And also those in favour of majoritarian assimilation, less immigration. So it would survive sans Peters – and end up beyond the house Maori orbit.

         ACT would remain as they are. Apologising for the American regime – lifestyle for the gated community haves and a regime over the rest. They are only the future where government fails and we no longer have a modern nation state, just jurisdictions of the global market of for and by the elite.

         The problem for such a L/N N/L coalition would be how it balanced migration with the status of an indigenous people. Tiriti and UNDRIP as to management of public state domain. Greens and NZF would cater to those disappointed here.

         The wild card is the impact of loss of confidence in government – lack of infrastructure and or growing debt. And how we managed the change from a generation that expected to own property (boomers) to one that did not.
       • Ad 7.3.1.2

         12 September 2023 at 8:15 pm

         Might give it a go over the weekend. Something like the Danish and German setups.
8. Wei 8

   9 September 2023 at 10:37 pm

   "There might be other reasons why Islamic countries might not openly criticise China, which is notoriously touchy & grumpy about any form of criticism and which responds with idiosyncratic ‘diplomatic’ responses."

   There might be (althought doubtful), at the governmental level (in any case not as touchy and grumpy of criticism or being outside the fold as the US —the US bombs countries they don't like on false pretexts).

   Yet even on the streets the average Muslim is pretty much OK with China. Yet talk to him about Israel and many will blow a fuse.

   "Your flawed logic is to assume that absence of evidence is evidence of absence."

   It's an assumption that is actually quite reasonable. In the absence of evidence that my neighbour is a serial killer, it is reasonable to assume he is not, although not proof obviously.

   [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
   
   • Incognito 8.1

     10 September 2023 at 7:03 pm

     I see, you talk to ‘the average Muslim’ in the street in Islamic countries or you making up more shit.

     You dismiss any other reasons as ‘doubtful’ without knowing, enquiring, or considering them, which again contradicts that you’re about facts & truth.

     The public silence of other Islamic countries proves nothing and doesn’t contradict the reports of human rights breaches.

     You are grasping at straws and I’m still waiting for support of your false accusation of me. If you continue wasting my time with this, you go straight from Pre-Mod into the Black List until after the General Election.

     Lastly, use the Reply button when replying/responding to comments.

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