Open mike 10/12/2023

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 10th, 2023 - 89 comments
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For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

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89 comments on “Open mike 10/12/2023 ”

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  1. Jester 1
    10 December 2023 at 8:36 am

    Interesting article about the Greens in Stuff. James Shaw very much a loner now in the party. Definitely wouldn't surprise me if he was forced out (or leaves) in this term as he does seem to be the only member concerned about environmental issues.

    "Shaw is not the co-leader of the Green Party because you cannot lead if others will not follow. His party is no longer interested in environmental issues."

    Damien Grant: Green Party's more interested in performative theatre than environmental issues | Stuff.co.nz

    • Bearded Git 1.1
      10 December 2023 at 9:16 am

      Damian Grant leans well to the Right and is simply trying to sew discord among the Greens.

      BTW the Greens' vote went up 42% in the last election, partly due to some fine campaigning by James Shaw. They got 11.6% compared with 8.6% for ACT.

      • Jester 1.1.1
        10 December 2023 at 9:46 am

        Yes I agree Damien is well right leaning. He ran those debates with Bradbury prior to the election with different candidates. I think a big part of the Greens vote increase came from people not voting Labour.

        • Robert Guyton 1.1.1.1
          10 December 2023 at 10:42 am

          The current Green Party "team" of MP's is far and above the most powerful the party has ever had and given how excellent past Green MPs have been, that's really something to celebrate!

        • Bearded Git 1.1.1.2
          10 December 2023 at 1:57 pm

          I think now CC is such a massive issue that there are quite a few new Green voters from across the political spectrum. It is not just a simple matter of how the Left vote is split up.

    • Robert Guyton 1.2
      10 December 2023 at 9:19 am

      Damien Grant's article is disingenuous twaddle.

      He writes that James Shaw is in Dubai at COP 28, then states,

      "Shaw has been curiously absent…" from the House.

      Curiously absent?

      Idjit.

    • SPC 1.3
      10 December 2023 at 9:48 am

      It's obvious Damien Grant is bitter over the relative poll numbers of Green and ACT, which indicate which one is of the future.

      And in his own way he notes the utility of one of the co-leaders, the environment spokesperson, being at COP 28. And the other one in parliament as part of the resistance to the anti-Maori direction of the hydra headed landlord class war government.

      The rest is just racist, the white man away the coloured children who should be seen and not heard. He is just parroting John Howard on One Voice. The same meanness at coloured folk is in fashion at the Platform, as per Sean Plunkett.

      The attempt to distinguishing being a white man and support for the Palestinian just shows that a western colonial settler overlord class sticks together against indigenous peoples.

      The more intelligent Jew would find his support in that light dangerously offensive.

      Otherwise the narrative that Shaw could prove he was a leader, if there was no policy on anything but the environment (Starmer Blairlite harmless to the neo-liberal right), that the right finds confronting – domestic and foreign.

      They mention past leaders like Fitzsimmons, Donald and Norman because they were so white …

    • adam 1.4
      10 December 2023 at 12:22 pm

      WOOHOO three years of trolling the G.

    • observer 1.5
      10 December 2023 at 1:48 pm

      This is the same tired old trope about the Greens. It collapses the moment it is tested.

      Critic: "The Greens are too woke, they should do environment!"

      Greens: "Ok, here's a policy on climate change, are you on board?"

      Critic: "No, not that one"

      Greens: "How about this policy instead? Very environmental."

      Critic: "No, not that one."

      And so on.

      Note that Damien Grant does not name a single Green policy on climate change that he supports. Or on the environment in general. Because he's not interested.

      And of course he resorts to another tired tactic: fake praise for previous leaders, who of course the Right totally approved of (Donald, Fitzsimons, Norman). That's sarcasm, sorry … the Right attacked and derided those leaders constantly.

      Of course, the new government could adopt any of those nice sensible woke-free Green policies on the environment any time they want. They don't need those wacko Greens to get serious about climate change. They could even do something as modest and easy as continuing the previous government's small steps forward. Nobody could stop them.

      Spoiler alert: They won't.

    • Chess Player 1.6
      10 December 2023 at 4:29 pm

      It would have been an interesting move by Luxon to offer Shaw the Climate Change minister role, and with the budget that Labour suddenly pulled from Shaw without telling him, restored.

      If Shaw declined, then the Greens would get questions about how much they were really about the environment, and would find it hard to get any credibility when complaining that the new government wasn't doing enough for CC.

      If he accepted, then it's all on the Greens if things don't improve in that area.

      Same for offering TPM one of the Maori related ministerships.

      It would be refused of course, and with the maximum huffing and puffing, but then TPM couldn't credibly complain later, if enough wasn't done for their causes.

      Shaw will probably be made to apply for his job again, even though he's the only one in that party sufficiently qualified to advocate for the environment, as that's how the Greens seem to do things. I hope he gets reelected as a leader, as if not, this will definitely be his last term and we'll all be worse off as a result.

      • observer 1.6.1
        10 December 2023 at 4:39 pm

        Luxon didn't even need to offer Shaw the job. He could simply have phoned Shaw for a chat, and told the media that he had. Would have sent a message to Winston to behave.

        There was only one thing stopping Luxon … namely, everything National stand for.

        Fantasies are free, but putting this on the Greens or TPM when it would have cost Luxon his job is laughable.

        • Robert Guyton 1.6.1.1
          10 December 2023 at 6:14 pm

          "He could simply have phoned Shaw for a chat, and told the media that he had…"

          Shaw. But the media might, just might, ask Sure, what he thought about that chat.

  2. Francesca 2
    10 December 2023 at 8:41 am

    I wouldn't take too much notice of Damien Grant .

    He knows jack about the Green party.I can assure you that environmental issues are crucial to the Greens .That they are also concerned about social justice is a bonus

    Just Damien being performative

    • Rolling-on-Gravel 2.1
      10 December 2023 at 6:00 pm

      I'm glad that Greens prioritises both social justice and the environment.

      I would not be a voter of Greens otherwise.

      The other Green Parties of the world usually is less attractive a proposal to vote for, than what we have in NZ, and the one in UK is the closest in equivalence to our Greens yet there's still something missing from it.

      In my worldview, progressive social movements are interlaced with our common wealth and resources & our relationship to these aspects which is intertwined with class and with nature. This is ecological wisdom and our Greens has really embodied most of this well. There's definitely room for improvement imo.

      I think our ecological & social & class-based movements are some of the vehicles that we will use to steer ourselves through the 21st century and beyond. It'll be a rough century this century.

      If I have a critique to make of the Greens, it's that we are yet to fully embrace a globally & locally minded eco-socialism with intersectionalist aspects.

      However, we'll try to get there even if there'll be mistakes on the way. The cost otherwise really is intolerably too high.

    • Patricia Bremner 2.2
      10 December 2023 at 6:12 pm

      Damian knows Jack!! Statement of truth.

  3. Stephen D 3
    10 December 2023 at 8:54 am

    Where are the best places to go for reliable news out of China?

    • aj 3.1
      10 December 2023 at 11:16 am

      Most western media parrot the 'China bad' narrative but Rnaud brings a different perspective in this thread, which is generally economic news but sprinkled with society and politics in China, and geopolitics in general.

      https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand

      • joe90 3.1.1
        10 December 2023 at 12:38 pm

        Isn't he the dude whose continued business successes in China depends on him saying nice things about Xi and the CCP?

  4. Visubversa 4
    10 December 2023 at 8:57 am

    In other parts of the world the Green Party is spending a lot of time promoting "luxury beliefs" and performative ideology.

    "The Victorian Greens now define transphobia as the vilification of trans people; intentionally misgendering people individually or as a group; denying that non-binary genders exist; or “promoting the unnecessary prioritisation of sex characteristics above gender”.

    The party’s new rules also state that “advocating for unnecessary restrictions on transition care” and “asking leading questions that cover for doing one of the above” can constitute transphobia."

    https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/this-will-split-us-victorian-greens-expand-party-s-definition-of-transphobia-20230423-p5d2ku.html

  5. mac1 5
    10 December 2023 at 9:16 am

    "Goh!" said with Basil Fawlty roll of the eyes and toss of the head. "People!"

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/301021714/mad-bad-or-sad-its-not-surprising-that-mori-are-reluctant-to-speak-to-media

    "Journalists were once again celebrated in 2023 by remaining near the bottom in the global Ipsos Trustworthiness Index. We’re down there with politicians, successful politicians (Cabinet ministers etc), advertising execs and bankers.

    Meanwhile, scientists and doctors top the Index, which, on recent evidence, shows the true perversity of a species that listens the least to the people it trusts the most."

    And the converse? Do we listen more to the reckons of politicians, sales pitches of advertisers, and the opinions offered by journalists even though we trust them less?

    Good article-worth a read.

    • dv 5.1
      10 December 2023 at 9:24 am

      SO that is the reason Peters is hiring a Press Agent.

      HAH

      • Patricia Bremner 5.1.1
        10 December 2023 at 10:00 am

        Peters' advert. Reading it made me think, someone to cover his blurts with a Willis, "What Winston meant to say". Perhaps Damian Grant or someone of that ilkdevil

        • SPC 5.1.1.1
          10 December 2023 at 12:50 pm

          Damien Grant works in receivership, chaos (destruction and renewal) capitalism, his future is looking bright where he is.

          The problem will be getting the assets going with those fleeing off to Oz.

  6. SPC 6
    10 December 2023 at 10:02 am

    The token white person not racist on the Platform, notes the mess the hydra headed confabulation has got themselves into on water infrastructure

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2023/12/10/bhahaha-water-prices-to-triple-hows-your-racist-3-waters-hate-going-now-chumps/#comment-802005

    • Pat 6.1
      10 December 2023 at 10:09 am

      Did you think water infrastructure upgrades were going to be (magically) free under 3Waters?

      • SPC 6.1.1
        10 December 2023 at 10:18 am

        Did you not realise that (and why) water charges would go up quicker and faster, if it did not go ahead?

        • Pat 6.1.1.1
          10 December 2023 at 10:20 am

          No I didnt… the case was never made.

          Strangely the proposal was unable to demonstrate how it was going to reduce the cost of the required infrastructure.

      • Robert Guyton 6.1.2
        10 December 2023 at 10:45 am

        "Free" wasn't the selling point.

        "Achievable" was.

        • Pat 6.1.2.1
          10 December 2023 at 10:56 am

          'Achievable' was never demonstrated either Robert, merely the observation we were failing to maintain/upgrade that which was required.

          And the reasons why we have failed to date are the same reasons we will continue to fail into the future…and 3Waters didnt address that.

          • Robert Guyton 6.1.2.1.1
            10 December 2023 at 11:43 am

            Didn't get the chance, did it. Shot down by reactionary racists and anti-centralisation ideologues who seek the privatisation of services, imo.

          • adam 6.1.2.1.2
            10 December 2023 at 12:21 pm

            Have you read how it was purposed to work Pat, because your comments show you have not.

            Simple summary to follow:

            Firstly it was designed to get around council borrowing limits. Secondly it was to make sure those in dire need were to get said loans first. Third and here the real kicker, it was dedicated to fix water infrastructure over and above all else. Fourth, Māori were to be part of the governance.

            Super stripped down summary.

            I get for some folk the fourth point made them see red, turn off their brain and act like right c&*^%. Ask yourself, were you one of those people?

            • weka 6.1.2.1.2.1
              10 December 2023 at 12:30 pm

              Useful summary, thanks.

              Labour really did fuck up the handling and messaging on this. I came in late and it was impossible to understand the whole thing. Your summary is probably the most useful thing I've read on it.

              Centralisation of power and decision making was an additional issue.

            • SPC 6.1.2.1.2.2
              10 December 2023 at 12:52 pm

              I recall one commentator liked it all, until someone mentioned co-governance as part of the separation model.

              • Chess Player …
                10 December 2023 at 3:32 pm

                Can someone explain please, what the value add would have been by having dedicated governance positions for Māori?

                Was the belief that this would improve the quality of the result, and if so, how?

                • SPC …
                  10 December 2023 at 3:36 pm

                  It got around WT issues with moving control from public bodies (councils) and enabled the separation to ensure the access to lower cost finance in one.

                • roblogic …
                  10 December 2023 at 4:34 pm

                  I enjoyed Bomber's summary

                  Bhahaha – Water prices to triple – how’s your racist 3 waters hate going now chumps? | The Daily Blog

                  “Da Bloody Maaaaaaaris is stealing da water”! is the battle cry of these slack jowled redneck crackers. They never acknowledge that it was John Key selling 49% of the Hydro Assets that triggered Māori going to the Waitangi Tribunal and the Waitangi Tribunal agreed with Māori that they do have an interest in water and that it was the State’s responsibility to negotiate that interest with Māori. 3 Waters is the culmination of that interpretation of the Tribunals legal ruling, trying to concoct a Qanon conspiracy that the Māori elite are taking over is as stupid as it is stupid.

            • Pat 6.1.2.1.2.3
              10 December 2023 at 8:24 pm

              Unfortunately I did read the proposal adam.

              Simple summary

              It was stated it was going to get around council borrowing limits but the money markets determined that would be treated as part of the councils assets regardless….and the government was avoiding being the funder at a further reduced finance rate.

              Secondly it provided no such guarantee that those in the greatedt need would recieve attention first, indeed it was conceivable (likely) that the fact there were more units administered by a reduced number of entities that priorities would be focused on the biggest gains in the earliest stages….to the detriment of smaller population areas.

              Third it required the delivery of infrastructure that met the required standard…and heres the kicker, within its ability to fund it…..that means how much they can charge you and me (well not me , because I am not provided with said infrastructure)…so it is as politically limited as council entities are/were, unless you advocate an entity that achieves its target of delivery irrespective of whether it provides a service to all or only those who can pay?

              And fourth there was no argued advantage to increasing the bureaucracy/cost of the co governance model.

              And one you missed, it didnt address the issue of ground water contamination (esp nitrates) which is already impacting the urban water supplies and has the potential to make water treatment prohibitively difficult/expensive to achieve.

              It was a poor policy, poorly promoted and ultimately forced upon communities without addressing those community's concerns….and no that dosnt mean that the current Gov will do any better…..they face all the same problems and no one is prepared/able to face the changes/costs that will be needed to solve them….so we will continue to do what we usually do, muddle through.

              • SPC …
                11 December 2023 at 11:12 am

                Muddling through with higher rates than otherwise, with less improvement in water infrastructure. A second rate decision with a second world outcome.

                Largely a consequence of ECAN, nitrates are a problem in areas with contaminated aquifer water for pregnant mothers and they would need to use bottled water for drinking.

                • Pat …
                  11 December 2023 at 5:25 pm

                  Possibly though not necessarily….the sad fact is that (as stated numerous times) we are not prepared/able to make the changes required to enable the environmental outcomes we all claim to desire….and 3 Waters didnt change that.

                  Ecan are not the only entity responsible for nitrate levels and it is not only aquifers as rivers are impacted as well….and as noted 3Waters never addressed this issue (deliberately?).

              • SPC …
                11 December 2023 at 11:20 am

                It was stated it was going to get around council borrowing limits but the money markets determined that would be treated as part of the councils assets regardless….and the government was avoiding being the funder at a further reduced finance rate.

                What does the money markets determined that (borrowing) would be treated as part of council assets regardless even mean? And what are you citing as per (presumably) debt levels of councils and at arms length entity borrowing costs?

                Yes the alternative to borrowing at lower cost by water bodies is government borrowing, or guarantee of council borrowing etc. The thing is this impacts on government debt costs and its own debt to asset standing. It might then simply nationalise water bodies and claim the assets.

                • Pat …
                  11 December 2023 at 5:43 pm

                  "What does the money markets determined that (borrowing) would be treated as part of council assets regardless even mean"

                  It means you can place the assets and debt at arms length from the owners of an asset (in this instance the councils) but the lenders will still consider it part of the owners debt and treat it accordingly….that means increased financing cost if the risk is deemed to warrant it.

                  The cheapest borrowing is gov debt as they have more ability to collect revenue/seize assets..and they make the law. They could indeed seize the assets and 'nationalise' them, but they chose not to….why?

                  Rates will rise irrespective of the ownership structure of the water infrastructure and Id venture to suggest that under 3 waters the combined rates/watercharges would have been higher than rates alone if the water infrastructure remained on the council books.

                  https://newsroom.co.nz/2022/12/04/qa-who-should-pay-for-desperately-needed-three-waters-work/

                  "There is doubt, though, about the official expectation that the new water entities will achieve similar issuer credit ratings to councils’ AA ratings. Yes, water entities will achieve higher leverage ratios, enabling them to borrow up to $8b more through to 2031.

                  But without a Crown guarantee of that debt, finance experts and rating agency S&P predict they would have credit ratings around BBB-, which is the lowest possible investment grade. S&P defines that as: “Adequate capacity to meet financial commitments, but more subject to adverse economic conditions.” And that means higher interest payments that will be passed on to customers. "

          • Drowsy M. Kram 6.1.2.1.3
            10 December 2023 at 12:37 pm

            3Waters was a failed attempt at central govt-led long-term planning. Imho, public and political 'concern' about additional co-governance arrangements being bundled with the nationalisation of provision of water services was a significant contributor to its failure.

            Amalgamation aspects of 3Waters might have generated economies of scale, but we'll never know – 5.2 million Kiwis, 67 water asset-owning organisations.

            Six year wait for three waters reforms far too long, says Scottish expert [27 June 2022]
            The Water Industry Commission of Scotland had succeeded because it had created economies of scale in areas of high-cost expertise and senior management but had recognised that the delivery of water services remained “intensely local”. He believed this was not well understood or believed by New Zealanders opposed to the reforms. “You need to have a professional responsive staff in place, like professional hydrologists, professional asset planners, professional people for dealing with procurement, professional people for dealing with finances and bond markets. To do that you need real scale. Because if you don't, you can't afford the top specialists because (they) are typically quite well-paid individuals.” Sharing their costs over a community of 50,000 to 100,000 people was very different from sharing their costs over a million people.

      • lprent 6.1.3
        10 December 2023 at 1:13 pm

        It isn't free. However Three Waters wasn't going to entangled with the credit rating of local councils. They have ceilings on debt vs assets, etc.

        Separating the much higher higher risk of council bankruptcy from the lower risks of water boards means that.

        1. The cost of borrowing can be lower. Water systems are simply too important to fail. The downstream health consequences of failure are extreme.
        2. The level of borrowing up front for long life assets can be higher. Important bearing in mind how delapidated all of our water assets are.
        3. The terms of repayment can be far longer, which means that it reflects the generational benefit aspect of the water assets

        The problem that Three Waters was designed to fix was the structural problem of having local councils running regional assets badly and running them slowly into the ground as they failed to handle population shifts.

        • adam 6.1.3.1
          10 December 2023 at 8:29 pm

          Weka this comment from lprent does a great job explaining the Fiscal side of three waters. And why we so desperate need it, or something like it.

          Only thing I'd add is most local councils are broke, because they are attached to a ponzi scheme which on enriches developers. The developers make the new suburbs as cheaply as possible, then hand them over to council to run, as they slowly fall apart.

        • Pat 6.1.3.2
          10 December 2023 at 8:34 pm

          Except (as related to adam above) it did none of those things

          • lprent 6.1.3.2.1
            18 December 2023 at 8:37 am

            Always good to have a critic around who can't explain their reasoning when they say it "ain't so". It allows the trolls to look better.

            I could give you some links to various reports explaining this in more depth. However I suspect that you'd be incapable of understanding the very simple and quite basic finance issues in them.

    • Gabby 6.2
      11 December 2023 at 6:27 am

      As long as farmers and vinyarders get theirs cheap, it'll be fine..

  7. ianmac 7
    10 December 2023 at 10:12 am

    Reading David Slack this morning he has a grim message that Trump will get in as President again. Hell and descent into a grim lawless State without democracy.

    Under a second Trump presidency, he contends, political persecution and attacks on opponents seem all but assured to be vengeful, lawless and widespread. The possibility of the U.S. descending into dictatorship under Trump is real and increasing. -Robert Kogan

    https://open.substack.com/pub/subslack/p/surely-it-wont-happen?r=25honw&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

    • Anne 7.1
      10 December 2023 at 12:03 pm

      With Putin's Russia and Trump’s America, the future is looking dire – and that is an understatement.

      • ianmac 7.1.1
        10 December 2023 at 1:29 pm

        The threat sounds so alarmist but so far Trump continues having a huge effect on MAGA. Each time he is charged his polling goes higher, and none of his opponent candidates get near him. And in spite of the economy picking up under Biden he is not seen as a credible contender for President. And if Trump does win under their jerry-mandered election rules, the effect on NZ will be damaging.

        • Anne 7.1.1.1
          10 December 2023 at 3:48 pm

          Biden should pull out of the presidential race. He may have been a good president but he comes across as very old and doddery. If he stays, then it will be all over for America because Trump will win.

          And of its all over for the America then its all over for the rest of us.

          • Peter 7.1.1.1.1
            10 December 2023 at 6:02 pm

            Decisions, decisions. Do you want some doddery old codger who is a shop front who fills a ceremonial role, trying to operate with some notions of doing the best for the masses?

            Or do you want a different old codger who's a megalomaniac who makes sure that the role of every person in a decision-making position is to massage the ego of the would-be dictator?

            I can still remember the stark difference between the two in the first leaders' 'debate' in 2020.

            When asked the big achievement if his first term of office, the incumbent said it was the appointment of judges. So 330 million+ population, all the life and living and exploits and achievements (and Covid) and that was it.

            The other guy in response on being asked what the most important thing was that for him to achieve? Unity, to be united.

            We can't hope to understand the complexities and machinations of the US political scene. Blaming Biden for standing though and that event seeing Trump being elected? No, a toss up between the two and Trump being elected means the numbers with IQs less that 70 are greater than I thought and lots of them voted.

            • Anne 7.1.1.1.1.1
              10 December 2023 at 8:09 pm

              … a toss up between the two and Trump being elected means the numbers with IQs less that 70 are greater than I thought and lots of them voted.

              A vast proportion of the US population have been so dumbed down, their IQs are abysmally low. They are the ones who vote for Trump. Biden does not attract the younger vote. A more dynamic person is needed to counter the Trump dumb-bells. Perhaps he should step aside for Kamala Harris. He is 81 going on for 82 years of age.

    • joe90 7.2
      10 December 2023 at 6:54 pm

      Is it a bad sign when your campaign asks your backers and fellow travelers to stfu?

      Donald Trump’s campaign asked allies on Capitol Hill in recent days to publicly counter criticism that the former president would govern like a dictator in a second term, according to people familiar with the matter.

      Yet on Tuesday, Trump reignited that criticism. Pressed twice on the topic during a televised town hall with Fox News host Sean Hannity, including on whether he “would never abuse power as retribution against anybody,” Trump replied: “Except for Day 1,” before going on to talk about drilling for oil and closing the border.

      […]

      Trump’s plans for a second term have relied in part on work being done through a coalition of right-wing groups called Project 2025, The Post and others have reported. The news reports prompted Trump campaign senior adviser Susie Wiles to complain to the project’s director, Paul Dans of the Heritage Foundation, saying that the stories were unhelpful and that the organization should stop promoting its work to reporters, according to a person familiar with the call.

      https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2023/12/06/trump-comments-dictator-campaign-president-2024/

      https://archive.li/AAxpW

  8. dv 8
    10 December 2023 at 11:40 am

    https://newsroom.co.nz/2023/12/08/nats-get-in-bed-with-commitment-free-dating-app/

    So it seems apt to discover that just three days before the election, the National Party received a big $35,000 donation from HUD Studio – the tech company behind a dating app “dedicated to facilitating commitment-free relationships”.

    So thats how Nats Winston and David hooked up.

  9. Adrian 9
    10 December 2023 at 1:07 pm

    Te Tiriti hikoi in Blenheim as we speak and my reporter, wife actually, reports lots of toots and a couple of hundred walkers. Not bad for little notice, she came upon it and joined in. Couple of hundred in the rain is pretty good for here, you won’t get that to a big footy game.

  11. Populuxe1 11
    10 December 2023 at 2:28 pm

    Now taking bets as to who will be the first Māori member of the National caucus to resign because they didn't sign up to be the face of racist policy sops to New Zealand First and ACT. My money is on Reti – he's showing the signs.

    • observer 11.1
      10 December 2023 at 3:12 pm

      All the Ngāpuhi ones? After yesterday.

      Probably not (ambition beats iwi) but they are certainly going to be shifting uncomfortably in their Cabinet seats. If Luxon had any feel for history, for other perspectives (he doesn't) then he would make a statesmanlike speech about land theft, issue an apology on behalf of the Crown and pledge to engage. He only understands dollars and cents so his advisers should explain that is the cheapest way to buy goodwill.

      Perhaps he will surprise us yet. But I doubt it.

    • Ad 11.2
      10 December 2023 at 3:19 pm

      Reti is killing off the Maori-focused health authority Te Aka Whai Ora. Had evidence to back his decision. The Maori in government have zero problem with the coalition agreement.

      • Robert Guyton 11.2.2
        10 December 2023 at 3:45 pm

        Evidence isn't proof – he's selected evidence that supports his/his party's ideological position.

        By "The Maori", do you mean, Reti, aka Ciga-Reti, singular?

      • observer 11.2.3
        10 December 2023 at 3:54 pm

        Spectacular mind-reading there.

        Choosing to be a Cabinet Minister does not equate to having "zero problem". Tama Potaka is not going to publicly say "I'm OK with 70% of it but am unhappy with a chunk of it".

        Maybe he is no longer the person he was before he entered Parliament. But if he's the same person, he has major problems with it.

      • Populuxe1 11.2.4
        10 December 2023 at 4:02 pm

        He would hardly be the first politician to toe the party line and swallow the dead rats out of misplaced loyalty or sunk cost fallacy. Nick Smith did it all the time as Environment Minister. Chris Bishop no doubt still stings over having that cross-bench housing policy walked back. If you listen very carefully when Reti speaks, he is deliberate in his wording, and occasionally contradicts Luxon when it comes to acknowledging Māori health disparities and child poverty as an issue. Tama Potaka is likewise using very deliberate language when asked about the te reo issues.

  12. Ad 12
    10 December 2023 at 2:59 pm

    Hipkins' inability to hold his own political performance to account only looks surprising when Luxon has to do Labour's own accountability job for it.

    Labour's record on gang membership, regional gang dominance, drug use growth, and membership growth is indefensible.

    Labour's record on spending will start to come out with the mini-budget, but the waste has been chronic. Let's see how fast the tax cuts come.

    Looking forward to Green+TPM+Labour uniting on useful things, but little sight of it so far.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

  13. Chess Player 13
    10 December 2023 at 7:34 pm

    Remind me again how climate change and child poverty are working out?

    Words are cheap, what matters is delivery.

    Labour had the first majority since MMP started but did sweet FA – cowards.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

  14. newsense 14
    10 December 2023 at 10:21 pm

    Dunno if this was done on Friday, but-

    Good ol’ Pete Dunne – wanted to be famous for drug reform, to save the kids. Doesn’t really seem to care though about the Nats happily killing around 5 thousand and losing billions in associated savings phasing out cigarettes. No, it’s that that sneering Ayesha Verrall won’t shut her traps about it. How dare she so smugly give context to a decision made after the election so not debated or explored at all and so not really given the go ahead by the public? How dare the opposition oppose!

    Go on and piss off and let NewsRoom hire one of the decimated civil servants due to be laid off to write a column. Yeh I know 6.5% isn’t 10%, but it’s enough to make Wellington a city ready to party this Christmas, amirite?

    That’d be fairly reasonable. You supercilious Judas cunt. Quit paying off your political slights from 30 or 40 or 50 years ago and let someone who’s directly affected by this incompetent blitzreig speak to us from what was your column space. Cunt. And poodle.

    Don’t wanna link but yeck-
    https://newsroom.co.nz/2023/12/07/pm-cant-just-dismantle-labour-policies/

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