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Open mike 10/04/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 10th, 2013 - 154 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

154 comments on “Open mike 10/04/2013”

  1. Jenny 1

    Some very good news from the Green Party.

    Despite the Green party very slender response to the Tiwai Aluminium Smelter controversy, and the likely hood of it being propped up by further government or Power Company subsidies. And despite the benefits accruing to the environment, and in particular the climate, if the Tiwai Smelter is allowed to close. The Green Party generally kept out of the debate.

    The Green Party obviously did not want to be seen to be arguing for the closure of the smelter no matter how much the science demanded it.

    But despite thier weak performance over Tiwai, the Green Party have decided to call a conference on climate change. This is tremendous news.


    Despite their backpeddling overclimate change, for which their weak showing over Tiwai is just the latest manifestation. There is much that the Green Party does, that I find commendable. The Green Party are the main movers in the very powerful campaign against State asset sales. To which they have won the majority of parliament to. (Which made their silence over Tiwai so out of place. As the closure of Tiwai, as well as being a great boon to the climate, would pretty much torpedo the privatisation of Meridian Energy.)

    So it is with great hope that I look forward to this parliamentary conference on climate change.

    The Green Party have also announced a new initiative around public transport.


    This also, is great, and I look forward to this as well. Good for them.

    These are great initiatives.

    It is not easy to swim against the tide.

    I see that the detail for the climate change conference has yet to be announced. But I do see that it is being held in parliament on June 7 in the Legislative Council Chamber of parliament.

    This is great news. All the other parties in parliament should feel obliged to send representatives to give their Party’s views on this pressing existential matter vital to all our futures.

    By bringing the issue of climate change into the open, the voting public will be able to find out where all the parties stand.

    This can only be a good thing.

    The Labour Party in particular should be given a prominent place to lay out their position on climate change.

    Personally I would love to see David Cunliffe speak for Labour on this issue. (That is if he has not been gagged).

    I would also like to see Sir Peter Gluckman speak. He has been a strong advisor to the government on the need to take action against climate change.

    If the major parties, Labour, National refuse to send representatives, or refuse to give civil servant Professor Gluckman leave to speak, or refuse to take part in this parliamentary conference, this in itself would be a clearer indication as to where they stand on Climate Change than if they attended and presented their views.

    I have some questions:

    Will the conference be open to the public to attend in any capacity?

    Can the public make submissions towards the climate change conference?

    Will there be a media presence?

    Will the precedings be broadcast, or filmed, or otherwise recorded?

    Apart from the politicians will there be any invited expert speakers?

    Who will they be?

    • Descendant Of Sssmith 1.1

      The Greens could make a significant impact on energy use by re-instating a 40 hour working week, including closing business down on Sunday as a minimum and from Saturday lunch time as well.

      Would be interesting to see the growth in energy use from allowing shops and businesses to open on weekends when that change occurred.

      Such a change would benefit families and increase activity in sports, etc and reduce stress on families who would get a genuine break.

    • Rob 1.2

      Tremendous news, they are going to hold a meeting.

      Just what we need some more chin waging, shinny arse development and post meet chardonnay swilling.

      • NickS 1.2.1

        Except it’s the Greens, so there’s usually actual discussion and a good chance to get them to act.

      • Murray Olsen 1.2.2

        Yes Rob, National’s sort of meetings where they sell stuff off, pat each other on the back, and then have a few celebratory whiskys while laughing at pictures of poor people are much, much better. Real men of action, that lot.

    • Anne 1.3

      Personally I would love to see David Cunliffe speak for Labour on this issue. (That is if he has not been gagged).

      I think he’s still gagged Jenny.

      Had a prominent member of the ABC club visit my local Labour monthly electorate meeting recently. During a discussion on Labour’s economic policies (still being formulated), this member listed the names of those colleagues who are involved in their preparation. He left out David Cunliffe. It would appear irrational vengeance for fabricated misdeeds still rules the caucus roost.

    • millsy 1.4

      So are they going to return the buses to public ownership/control?

      Nothing from the Greens about whether they will do this. And I have asked them repeatedly, only to be met with silence.

  2. Jenny 2

    More good news;

    In a celebration of human triumph over adversity. Tuhoe build for the future.

    Using some of the money from their settlement for past injustices visited on them by the crown, Tuhoe are constructing a new completely sustainable headquarters as a long term asset for the generations to come.

    No corporate ponzi schemes or financial wheeling and dealing this will be a real asset for their people and indeed for the wider community and the country.

    All New Zealanders of good will, have cause to celebrate Tuhoe’s settlement with the crown and wish them every success with this ambitious and inspiring project.
    Through all the years of brutality, theft, murder, injustice racism and unfair imprisonment inflicted on Tuhoe, Tuhoe have endured.

    Much more than just environmentally friendly, Te Wharehou o Tuhoe is being built with the future in mind, to be an asset for future generations. Concerns about climate change and seismic events are incorporated into it’s structure.

    The building is to be completely self sufficient.

    And is being built to an exceptional international standard of care for people and the environment not attempted by anyone else anywhere in this country before. (A least not since Occupation)


    Tūhoe Chairman Tamati Kruger said the decision to build the iwi’s new headquarters to such tough environmental standards reflects the environmental values of the Tūhoe people. “Though the cost may be higher initially, over the years the building will more than pay for itself. We hope it’s something that all the people of the Whakatane district will be proud of and will use as their own.”

    Together with Kiwi building company Arrow International and architects Jasmax, Tūhoe will be trialing innovative building methods and overcoming many hurdles to meet the Living Building Challenge (LBC) guidelines, many of which are made tougher by New Zealand’s remote location.

    ‘This building is a lighthouse in a world awash with climate change and social inequality, it shows the way to a different future, where we value people and a healthy environment which supports life and the economy, not one at the expense of the other”
    Jerome Partington, Jasmax

    After a troubled past, Kruger says he’s excited Tūhoe has embraced the Living Building concept and will be creating something all New Zealanders can be truly proud of

    If you have time, listen to the Radio NZ interview with the architect. Inspirational.


  3. Morrissey 3

    Street parties break out around Britain. Meanwhile…
    the Daily Telegraph closes Thatcher comments due to abuse

    “We have closed comments on every #Thatcher story today,” said editor Tony Gallagher. “Even our address to email tributes is filled with abuse.”

    In response, one Twitter user asked: “What does that tell you about public opinion on spending £3mil on her funeral?”

    Read more….

    Meanwhile, three politicians, one of them (only just) still functioning, spray the praise around like particularly stupid tomcats marking their territory. A territory called Sycophancia….

    1.) Convicted criminal and writer of some of the worst novels of the 20th century, Jeffrey Archer: “She changed this country for the better.”

    2.) “She stood for British values and she was quite beautiful.”—Winston Peters, speaking on Te Karere, TV1, 10.8.13 (This only lends weight to rumours that he has started drinking again.)

    3.) That piece of idiocy was immediately topped by this contribution by former MP Koro Wetere, who asserted, with a straight face: “She sold British public assets to strengthen the economy for her people.”

  4. Jenny 4

    Headlines you won’t see to day:

    Spies caught breaking the law.

    Those illegally targeted receive official apology.

    Guilty punished..

    Instead the law breakers will be given a break, and the law they flouted will be scrapped.

    Corruption and law breaking to be legalised

    The Government will make sweeping changes to laws governing spy agency GCSB that are likely to cement its ability to spy on New Zealanders …..

  5. CrosbyTextor 5

    P-R-I-V-A-T-E * * * A-N-D * * * C-O-N-F-I-D-E-N-T-I-A-L

    TO: John Key

    FROM: HQ

    RE: Keep calm and carry on

    John, take it easy. Everything is working out. We received your seven emails sent last night. Really, there’s no need to panic. Ferguson is on our side. He doesn’t want to go to jail either. The “smoking dope”jibe was planted. It gives the narrative sufficient tension to soothe the media plants’ desire to seem “balanced” in their reporting. People are watching now, these sorts of ruses are required. Don’t take it personally. Everyone knows that you have never smoked marijuana, except for that one time we have on film.

    Fletcher is doing a “marrrrvellous” job – heh, geddit? Remember how he pulled it off? Lie to parliament then RETROSPECTIVELY change the record. Same thing here. You have the script – stick to it: “yes, mistakes were made, the law is so confusing, the people involved only ever had the best interests of New Zealand at heart, no point in going over old ground now, we’re going forward with this, national security means details can’t be discussed, the independent overview has determined no one suffered unjustifiable intrusion, no convictions were based on evidence illegally obtained, public confidence must be maintained, the law will be changed retrospectively. Also, we’re going to have one agency to handle everything and align with the Australian reorganisation”. Game over.

    The only difficulty we are having with Operation Privatise NZ Security is when you do not stick to the script. What was that about a “long history” of supporting allies – what??? Pull your head in, stop panicking, and stick to the script. By the time you get home, the idea will have been planted into the public consciousness that the matter has been dealt with and now its just a case of going through the process. We have plans for another major story to “break” just before your return home and the chooks will be off chasing that. No need to fill you in at this stage but, rest assured, the situation is under control.

    Get some sleep, see some sights, take your meds, practise your lines, and don’t speak to the media without checking your cell phone first.

    We’re nearly there. Don’t fuck it up now.

    Lynton and Mark

  6. vto 6

    Had a great long chuckle te other day when I heard a North Island iwi bemoaning the unfairness of the first-in-first-served principle that operates under the Resource Management Act in allocation of New Zealand’s natural resources.

    Perhaps they had simply forgotten that the same principle underlies their own various, upheld, claims to New Zealand’s resources.

    … some people

  7. AsleepWhileWalking 7

    Welfare bill passed into law today…http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8531385/Welfare-shake-up-passed-into-law

    All the more reason to get behind the Wellington Benefit Rights service which has just become a registered charity : ) Laws may change, but the advocates endure…

    There was a lot of rhetoric about the changes and claims the Government didn’t care, Bennett said, “I recognise that these are people’s lives and that they are living them in reality”. Well TG for that.

    • Colonial Weka 7.1

      Sue Bradford –

      In this morning’s Herald she says, “… I think living on the full DPB is hard. I don’t know how you can live on 50%.”

      Yet Paula Bennett’s welfare reforms are the very vehicle by which more and more people are being sanctioned.

      Sanctions can mean having your benefit cut by 50%, losing it altogether – or never being granted assistance in the first place.

      The government’s own figures show that over the last six months an average 4,654 beneficiaries a month have had at least half their benefit taken from them, or had it cut completely.

      Last month, in March 2013, 5,600 people were officially sanctioned.


      • NickS 7.1.1

        And we thought Shippley was bad…

        • Colonial Viper

          back to Ruthanasia days

          • NickS


            Mum only got through that due to her step-father letting her have the rent occasionally…

          • freedom

            Ruthanasia was having an unrefrigerated pie for supper, Bennet is the next morning’s agony

        • Colonial Weka

          “And we thought Shippley was bad…”

          Ae. More from Bradford –

          National loves her. She’s doing a much better job than Jenny Shipley ever did at fronting harsh welfare changes.

          Much better to have a Maori woman, a former solo mum, taking the lead, than a former school teacher from the white South Island heartlands.

          And Bennett knows what she’s doing.

          She knows it even more than someone like Shipley, which makes her leadership role in this even worse. Paula Bennett’s seeming naivety and smiling, bubbly front mask a long, deep commitment to National’s ideology – a belief in helping the already-rich get richer while the poor are forced into ever deeper poverty, no matter the downstream social and economic costs.

          I’m no psychologist, but I’m sure there’s a name for the psychopathy she so evidently displays – a complete disconnect between ‘caring for people’ and the ideological principles which drive her political career.

  8. freedom 9

    from the sharing is caring file:
    A short film about the Bradley Manning story

    and a panel discussion from boots on the ground

    • ianmac 9.1

      freedom: Chilling statement from Bradley more so since the State is determined to not only with-hold disclosure of his statement, but the State is determined to find him guilty of all charges including “aiding the enemy.”
      A man showing great courage and integrity under fire from his own country.

      • freedom 9.1.1

        There is a great no-holds-barred section against the cowardice of the MSM and the people who staff it. A section which every journalist should make themselves watch, then go sit quietly for a few minutes and ponder.

        i won’t mark a timestamp because it is best you watch the panel discussion in its entirety 🙂

        P.S., apologies, meant to include this link to Manning’s Statement

  9. prism 11

    Queenstown is changing its Council services delivery structure back in house. Comment was that some employees connected with Council-owned businesses had been spending too much time and money doing things they wanted rather than what the ratepayers wanted?? Sounds like blaming the workers who were just following the style that the old management had created.. Former Nat who became Mayor Warren (Mini) Cooper thinks its a good idea and is positive about it.

    This fits in with my earlier expressed observation that being Right means you never say you have been wrong. Or you look for someone to blame for ineffective outcomes. Reminds me of The Simpsons where Homer confided his methods of dealing with criticism – he just looked for the newest immigrant worker with poor English capacity and blamed it on him. That’s how incompetents manage to survive.

    • Draco T Bastard 11.1

      This fits in with my earlier expressed observation that being Right means you never say you have been wrong.

      Exactly and because these idiots never get held to account they never learn from their mistakes and so they go through life making the same mistake again and again and again and we’re the ones that end up paying for them.

      • Tim 11.1.1

        Let’s be clear though, it’s not limited to politicians but it does seem to be a prerequisite for anyone wanting to climb a ‘corporatists’ ladder.
        Next thing ya know these buffons will be promoting themselves as ‘change agents’. I notice elsewhere the corporatists are about to trot out the ‘kaizen’ buzz again (in the name if fishincy n fektivniss n produktivtee). It’s a shame those that initiate the buzz don’t seem to see the need to abide by it themselves – though I have to admit, they are the new Royalty after all!

        • Colonial Viper

          Nothing wrong with a bit of Kaizen mate. The problem being that even the Japanese are being destroyed right now, by the Koreans and the Chinese.

          • Tim

            I agree there’s not …. just so long as its not the Kiwi corporate version (‘top’ down, and for everyone else but the ‘top’)

            • Colonial Viper

              A lot of private sector management skill in this country – at every level – is laughably incompetent and self serving.

              • Descendant Of Sssmith

                Bearing in mind as well we currently have lots of baby boomers running businesses who are no longer building a business but a looking to maximise (loot) the last vestiges of profit from them for their retirement.

                Low wages, youth rates, etc plays into their hands quite nicely.

                Let’s not think that they are there for the long term.

  10. Rogue Trooper 12

    roll out the barrel…lets have a barrel of fun…

  11. Rogue Trooper 13

    from Morning Report;
    Yep! Maori people committing offences are disproportionately prosecuted compared to non-maori, (30-40% more ) except for a “creeping” of the same “suggestion of a systematic bias” effect for Pasifika. Very little improvement concerning this matter since report in the 80s; let us be Blunt, James, effectively the MOJ and and related blue-tooth agencies are racist. Funnily enough felix, it was the MOJ hacked next.

    Yep! Child Poverty in NZ has hovered between 20-25% now for over 20 years.
    “-a persistent significant Public Health issue.
    -these are (revolving) cohorts now spread across decades (penetrating into the present adult populations, with concomitant health, educational etc issues).
    -compounding economic cost will eventually be unaffordable
    –requires a societal response, like tobacco, (yet that in itself may take decades).
    -Julie Peters, College of Public Health.

  12. ianmac 14

    National Radio at 12:00 says Mr Key admits that he mislead the public in that he knew in July 2012 of the illegal nature of GCSB and not September 2012 as he publicly said. Throws into question that the “illegality” might have been within the context of Dotcom? Surely the illegality would have been a topic within that framework?
    I wonder if the question of Mr Key’s credibility will be aired in the House today? Might come up in Q7 with Russel Norman.

    • ghostrider888 14.1

      Ian Fletcher : we got it “profoundly wrong”.
      “poor performance tolerated because sacking staff = risk”
      Key acknowledged that public confidence in GCSB “knocked”. Stout.

      • Tim 14.1.1

        “Ian Fletcher : we got it “profoundly wrong”.”
        Oh Dear….. what to do now what?
        I know – let’s see if we can keep this circus running a little longer aye?
        I’m not sure which (witch) of the MSN’s latest I saw the Fletch on – but here’s a public advisory:

        He lies when his top right hand lip tightens – I should probably charge thousands for that

    • Poission 14.2

      Key admits that he mislead the public in that he knew in July 2012 of the illegal nature of GCSB and not September 2012

      Neazor was not asked to the 17th September to review the problem.

      • One Anonymous Knucklehead 14.2.1

        Not just the public.

        Questions to Ministers
        Dotcom Case—Actions of Government Communications Security Bureau
        1. Dr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader—Green) to the Minister responsible for the GCSB: Does he consider that he should have been informed about the unlawful bugging of Kim Dotcom earlier than Monday, 17 September 2012; if not, why not?

        Rt Hon JOHN KEY (Minister responsible for the GCSB) : No. I was informed by the director of the Government Communications Security Bureau on 17 September, which was the first day I was in Wellington following travel to Russia and Japan, and the first opportunity I had to meet with the director in a secure environment once he had confirmed that it was likely an unlawful activity had taken place.

  13. ghostrider888 15

    on a Lighter note, Buzzy Bee Baldrick,

    a Linn Sondek ME Dallion Rodney explains all these bolts lying in the cycle-ways not quite covering Subterranean Homesick Blues 461Ocean Boulevard Let It Flow : Rust Never Sleeps : A multi-layered transcription In deed. Will the circle be unbroken, by and by Lord, by and by. Impressed. 🙂

    • Tim 16.1

      kind of a poor man’s frotage huh?

      • Tim 16.1.1

        actually – you should be directing that question to those that inhabit that edifice on Murphy Street, and quite a few on Molesworth St.
        We could see the SIS and GCSB directing their efforts towards tracing the sinners – Colin Moyle style

        • Treetop

          Tim you raise a subject which is unfinished business for me and a QC would need to be appointed before I could proceed in exposing dirty cops who I have dealt with in my cycles of police complaints (mainly cop involved in the incident with Moyle, who is a career cop).

          17 April 1978 Sir Alfred North’s report was released into the December 1976 inquiry where perjury occurred. The full police evidence is still in lock up.

          There is no way that the SIS or GCSB would spy on dirty crooked cops.

          To some extent I have followed how Thomas was treated by the NZ Police and the denial and reluctance of the police to admit how they altered the course of Arthur’s life and that he is owed a public and written apology.

  14. Tim 17

    Did anyone else hear the RNZ News at 11am today? I’m certain I heard Steven Joyce say that the drop in post-grad study was probably/most likely due to an increase in the availability of jobs.

    If so, thanx for that Stevie. Here’s me thinking it was more likely due to the fact that

    a) students were finding it increasingly more difficult to survive, and rather than suffer another 2 years of hand-to-mouth, beg, borrowing and stealing, they figured there were easier ways….. and

    b) because those made redundant from career positions and a lifetime of work, were no longer able to obtain any form of assistance in order to ‘retrain’, let alone pursue things of interest…..
    and probably ..c) and d) as well.
    I defer to Stevie Joyce’s superior intellect however!

    Next thing you know he’ll be telling us that poverty and starvation is the best cure for the obesity problem.

    In any event, my advice to the undergrad possessing salesman-like qualities, an aptitude for spin, dishonesty, and a passing interest in ethical behaviour is to stand for parliament – preferably for one of those parties that are right of the new ‘centre’ (sorry – err those of a neo-centrist position).

    • Rob 17.1

      or C
      ” people are starting to realise that the endless collection of useless PG qualifications does not make you more employable”.

      • Tim 17.1.1

        That’d be OK by me Rob, just as soon as they realise that using large corporate HR companies with template style matching criteria doesn’t necessarily make candidates suitable for ploymint tuneties too. Many a career has been built on it – which is one reason why (as someone else on here has noted) the same old same old fuckups with the same old same old weasels keep happening.

  15. Colonial Viper 18

    I hear all hospital kitchens are to be fully privatised now.

    Don’t know how anyone is supposed to get better on the crap they will be feeding patients, but I guess longer stays and poorer healing is a small cost to pay.

    • Tigger 18.1

      To be centralised apparently. Auckland and Christchurch. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10876642

      Labour http://www.labour.org.nz/news/hospital-catering-contract-cold-comfort-for-patients-and-workers and Greens http://www.greens.org.nz/press-releases/outsourcing-hospital-food-will-cost-nz-long-run already pointing out the mass job losses and the likelihood that it will cost us in the long run.

      Another day, another kick in the guts for New Zealand workers.

      • Rogue Trooper 18.1.1

        Darien Fenton directed the salient issues to Ryall in Q.T.
        “Health Benefits” (Ltd). imagine job losses will primarily be amongst provincially-based moderate “precariat” income workers. Yep.

        • Rogue Trooper

          appendix : get some campylobacter, C. perfringens (letting food sit) or Salmonella onboard in-flight and…well, at least folk will already be in the right location to be sick.

        • Tigger

          How nice. Even fewer jobs in our small centres. How many in Ryall’s electorate I wonder?

          • chris73

            I don’t agree with moves like this. I believe the short term saving will lead to long term losses.

            • Draco T Bastard

              And yet you’ll go and vote NACT anyway.

              • chris73

                No party is 100% correct in their decisions (ie Shearer) this is one of the times they’re wrong.

                • Arfamo

                  How can they be wrong? They’re talking about privatising another publicly funded service and killing off even more jobs to transfer more taxpayer funds to a private overseas owned corporation. That is their programme. You support that.

            • The Al1en

              What losses do you foresee?

              • The Al1en

                Actually, don’t bother. It’s a rat trap, Billy.

                When you eventually get around to posting patient health and safety, more unemployed and more lower paid contract workers, I’m only going to reply with knowing the human cost to our fellow Kiwis “you’ll go and vote NACT anyway”. You’re shit. 😆

      • NickS 18.1.2


        Here we go again… The contractors provide a lower than realistic bid, then raise the cost to the hospitals later + increases occur in food borne illnesses due to lax food H&S as workers are paid peanuts and not given enough sick days. So have to come into work just to make ends meet.

        All in all, it ends up costing more than doing it in house, as food borne illnesses in a hospital situation can end up very, very expensive due to isolation, clean up and extra medical support, life support or deaths. And if the company collapses it’s even more fun.

        But hey, it’s not like externalities and long term cost accounting has ever been popular with National /sigh

    • freedom 18.2

      good thing that hospitals are not full of patients with variable and challenging dietary requirements 🙁

    • Murray Olsen 18.3

      I think they’ll be working on shorter stays. They’ll get some failed idiot from the UK to come and say that post operative hospital care is as bad as drug addiction and doctors need to discharge patients far earlier, for their own good. In fact, I bet something like this will happen within the next year.
      This is one thing that really annoys me about the right – their complete predictability and lack of imagination. They really are stupid in many ways, which is possibly what makes their ideologies so appealing. Anyone can grasp it in 3 seconds flat – private good, public bad, hate the poor, white is good, but keep the sheets in the wardrobe a bit longer yet.

      • Colonial Viper 18.3.1

        So predictable and transparent yet our left wing political opposition is outflanked at every turn?

        • NickS

          That’s what happens when you let PR hacks manage your messages…

        • Murray Olsen

          Do we have a left wing political opposition? I haven’t noticed anything much resembling an organised one. I expect Labour might want to ensure that the private company doesn’t pay youth rates, and Winston would say the hospitals are full of Asians. The Greens say some good stuff, and Hone is in there by himself.

          • RedBaronCV

            How about a response from the opposition like this.

            “Mr Ryall proposes outsourcing. We imagine he has chosen this option as he cannot figure out how to demand that a patient’s family bring in all their food bedding and attend to all their other nursing needs. So he has chosen this as a waystation and then by gradually decreasing the service he will achieve his desired end. This will be headlined as – The patient’s family are in partnership with the Health system to meet their non medical needs- . This has been successfully trialed overseas in [insert name of very poor third world country]

            Are the Nact’s so policy deficent that they think this is a good way to cut costs.

    • Treetop 18.4

      I reckon that the government could trial the out sourced meals for a few months down at parliament and report back to Ryall.

      Visitors would have to supplement patient hospitals meals as the vitamin and mineral content will be reduced with reheating. I also suspect that food poisoning/salmonella would increase. Food poisoning can cause post infective arthritis and hepatitis.

    • millsy 18.5

      Kitchens are a core function of hospitals. After all, a patient needs food, and having an in house kitchen makes it easier for nutritional requirements to be catered to.

      I can see a lot going wrong with this proposal.

      The question is. Are the unions and the left going to fight this, or roll over like they did with every other change?

      Can we expect to see SFWU members demonstrating outside hospitals, and taking the streets every weekend?

      A few National voters still see our public health system as a taonga, and Key kept their vote be promising no major shake ups in health, can we mobilse them?

      Are we just going to sit on the internet and whine, or are we going to make an effort?

  16. chris73 19


    Now I’m no expert but I’m guessing telling the deputy leader of a political party “fuck you” is probably not the best way to get any future work…

    • Pascal's bookie 19.1

      That’s hilarious. I don’t know what’s the funniest part.

      Is it Failoil lecturing Paul Brislen(!) about internet behaviour?

      Is that the part where he sotto voice suggests his idiot minions might want to email Paul’s employer?

      Is it the suggestion that Paul’s employer’s think Fail’s complaint might not be ridiculous?

      Is it that he is persisting in pretending that the little Twitter maps are insightful in any way whatsoever?

      What an absolute tool that man is.

      • McFlock 19.1.1

        Actually clicked on it.

        I mean, I’m all for calling someone a fuckwit (obviously), but wo takes being a spiteful small-minded hate-filled parasite to a whole new level.

        • NickS

          …but wo takes being a spiteful small-minded hate-filled parasite to a whole new level.

          And ironically it’s not caused by his depression, he’s just a complete scumbag lacking in the same basic understandings of human behaviour the rest of us have or have built that makes us not verbally shit on another person right off the bat.

        • Tim

          Empty your cache AT ONCE McFlock! Then piss on it quick!

          • felix

            Then burn the whole machine. And run it over. And piss on it again.

            • NickS

              Followed by uttering the litany of Yog-Sothoth three times while pouring blood (can be diluted, source doesn’t matter) onto the remains to prevent it from arising as a whale oil blog commentator/lesser-shoggoth.

          • McFlock

            Yeah, pretty much did that sans pissing on the cpu 🙂

        • rosy

          Ha… thanks for the warning.

      • chris73 19.1.2

        Probably just thought it was funny.

        Can anyone with experience in business let me know if thats considered effective networking?

        • Pascal's bookie

          It’s talking on twitter to people you know, and a pollie jumps in, and you talk to him. It’s called “Human stuff”. Generally considered a good thing, sometimes confuses, or bores, the children though.

    • Morrissey 19.2

      Now I’m no expert…

      Hurrah! He’s finally written something honest!

  17. NickS 20



    Clear case of rape and the police did nothing, the rapist shits even photographed themselves in the act.


    • chris73 20.1

      I don’t know as well. Kind of wish I hadn’t read it.

      • NickS 20.1.1

        Welcome to rape culture basics then, side-effects from delving deeper into rape culture 101 include raging at victim blaming in the news, not laughing at rape jokes, with occasional cluebattings of people making rape and other threats against females in your presence. Along with dismay and/or anger at politicians/governments not helping rape and domestic violence support services.

    • Draco T Bastard 20.2

      One question comes: Who were the rapists and what were their connections to the rich government?

      • NickS 20.2.1

        None probably, this is rape culture in the context of conservative rural areas…

        Probably it was that as far as the Mounties and the school etc were concerned it was Rehtaeh’s fault for “drinking too much”.

        • Colonial Viper

          None probably, this is rape culture in the context of conservative rural areas…

          Yeah everyone knows to watch out for feral provincial types, rural men are animals and they hunt in godforsaken packs like hyenas. Shit, best to lock your daughters up at night if you ever wonder outside of bleeding liberal heart areas of urban Wellington or Auckland.

          Probably it was that as far as the Mounties and the school etc were concerned it was Rehtaeh’s fault for “drinking too much”.

          Of course, rural people are really stupid, judgemental and predictably unconscionable that way.

          • NickS


            If you’d bother reading the gawker piece + had prior experience with other rape cases and the reactions to them you’d probably not be sounding like such a twit. As the usual rational used to brush of rape victims is blaming them, while the usual public attacks on them are of the slut/whore variety.

            While per prior patterns of behaviour, generally rural areas in North America are less “nice” towards victims of sexual assault at both the police the social levels. Heck, the police in general often have patchy responses to rape and sexual assault victims, even in NZ that usual requires an inquiry or two to correct.

            But hey, feel totes free to correct me with ye olde hard evidence :smugface:

            (Note, Nick needzors sleep, thus the lack of linkage in this post, plus the computer be dying due to too many tabs open…)

            • Colonial Viper


              lol what are you 12?

              • NickS


                • Colonial Viper

                  You’re a smart guy and I do like you, but forget “rape culture”: you’re the perfect introduction to “bleeding heart intellectual elitist urban liberal culture”

                  This applies perfectly to the thread around as well. So “smugface” that you really believe that you do know it all about patriarchal societies through the history of human civilisation, and that you are somehow superiorly and culturally fit in morals and values to judge them as being deficient (compared to what? How well we treat our own in modern day society?).

    • Rogue Trooper 20.3

      been reading about the types of things young people (and children) have been saying about their behaviour and peers on social media and the lack of awareness of content by parents / caregivers until teachers etc inform them. sigh.is not gonna end well.airplane food in an inpatient unit is not going to float your deflated boat any more than atypical anti-psychotics.

      • NickS 20.3.1

        Yeah, it takes an awful amount of education (or personal experience) to get people to people to not abuse others for their sexuality, or in this case, being raped.

        As for mental health care, Canada’s been in the shit in the past over it’s mental health inpatient care and suicide prevention if memory serves me right. And some of the mainstream suicide watch prevention methods are pretty fucking hopeless in terms of patients human rights, let alone reducing suicidal ideation.

    • millsy 20.4

      What is it with the Anglo Saxon culture and the way they treat women?

      • Draco T Bastard 20.4.1

        It’s not just the Anglo-Saxons. It’s all of the patriarchal societies throughout history.

        • NickS


          • Colonial Viper

            Yes, because both of you are so knowledgeable about the range of patriarchal civilisations throughout the last five thousand years of human history.

            • NickS


              • Colonial Viper

                By my count there are around 100-150 major pre-medieval human civilisations on different continents, the vast majority of which were likely to be patriarchial in nature.

                Exactly how many of them are you familiar with that you could draw your conclusions?

                • Draco T Bastard

                  Enough. The only times I’ve heard of women being treated well and not as objects to own has been in matriarchies and some nomadic tribes (which tended more to anarchy).

  18. Morrissey 21

    Remember Deir Yassin


    Even though April 9, 1948, is a day of infamy for Palestinians, few commemorative ceremonies will be held.

    Sixty-Five years ago today organized Jewish terrorist groups, including the Irgun and Stern gangs, attacked the Village of Deir Yassin, a village whose population numbered some 600 people; 112 women children and old men were brutally butchered in a massacre that has been likened to the Babi Yar Nazi massacre of Jews in Kiev, Ukraine. To add insult to injury, some of the survivors were stripped, loaded on flat truck beds, paraded in a demeaning triumphal drive through Jerusalem’s Jewish neighborhoods, driven out of town, and shot to death. Under the cover of dark, 55 surviving children were loaded on trucks and dumped in a Jerusalem alleyway.

    Close to 600 villages were bulldozed and permanently wiped off the map. Some ironies: the Israelis would change the name of the village to Kfar Shaul, move Holocaust survivors into homes that were not destroyed, build a mental institution on the site, and the site itself is within full view of the Holocaust Memorial, a site just recently visited by Barack Obama…

    Read more….

    • prism 21.1

      Morrissey Thanks. We need to remember such things.
      Lest we forget as a devout promise takes on nightmare proportions when we allow the scope of attention to widen. It isn’t easy being a sentient human being with belief in our basic goodness.

      • Rogue Trooper 21.1.1

        better to be wide-mouthed frog with quick reflexes; young wide-mouth frog is left parent-less prior to the amphibian equivalent of weaning due to a temporary spike in the futures / derivatives / hedges / commodities market for what is between a wide-mouthed frog’s lips. young wmf commences bildungsroman / entwicklungsroman / erziehungsroman ,picaresque ,epic odyssey through local jungle food-hall questing of those just-so neighbours of varying species he / she meets in his / her ecological niche what it is they are to now sustain themselves with; request goes, to say, for example, a mole, “excuse me, but I’m a wide-mouth frog, can you please advise me what is appropriate on the menu for me to eat” (request, when telling joke is with fingers at side of own mouth stretching it, wide “hawo, i a vi mout fwog..”. Mole, for example replies, “well I don’t know what wide -mouth frogs eat but I’m a mole and I eat worms” (politicians)…and so on it goes until frog meets snake 😉 …”Well, I’m a snake and I eat wide-mouth frogs…”
        Wide-mouth frog purses lips and exclaims “ooooh, iz zat wight”.

    • Draco T Bastard 21.2

      Yep, definitely need to remember that Israel was birthed in the spilling of innocent blood.

    • kiwi_prometheus 21.3

      Israel is a colonisation project. It is also consider by the Yanks to be a strategic ally in the Middle East.

      So Israel can basically do what it likes without much protest from the West.

  19. Andrew Williams on John Key in Parliament. Recounts Key’s history and states:

    1. Key double crossed Blinglish in the leadership vote in 2003 despite pledging support for him.
    2. Knew about his blind trust.
    3. Forgot about his Westpac shares.
    4. Forgot about his meeting with the Exclusive Bretheren.
    5. Said he never met with Media works to discuss a $43 million loan despite the fact he had.
    6. Said that S&P would downgrade NZ’s rating even though it said it would not.
    7. Promised that Westpac’s banking would be opened up to competition but did not and then Simon Power went to work for them.
    8. Says he cannot recall when he was told by the GCSB about Dotcom.
    9. Could not recall shoulder tapping his mate Fletcher for the job of head of GCSB.

    He ends up by saying we cannot trust Key and calls for an independent inquiry. Williams does well.

    • tinfoilhat 22.1

      Williams is a self important drunk same as his boss, just because he disses a dickhead like Key doesn’t make him any less of a drunken buffoon

      • felix 22.1.1

        Ultimately that doesn’t really matter for the purposes of this discussion, even if it’s true, which I doubt very much given his usually high standard in the house.

        The speech was good. The simple narrative needs to be repeated.

    • felix 22.2

      Yeah it was a bloody good speech.

      Needs to be repeated at every opportunity for the next [x] months.

    • Draco T Bastard 22.3

      3. Forgot about his Westpac shares.

      Except that he didn’t and has never claimed that he did. He obviously remembered quite well when pressed on the number he held and that proves that he had used the lesser number on purpose. Probably thinking that having less would magically decrease the amount of conflict of interest he was engaging in.

  20. freedom 23

    You may have noticed the ‘meat alternative’ Quorn that has recently appeared on our shelves.
    Any of the science folk out there have any advice for us laymen. The manufacturer states it wants to be the first billion dollar meat alternative. Seems it is not a fungus or a mushroom, it is a mould grown in industrial vats. Now where’s that copy of Solyent Green?


    Click to access grn000091.pdf



  21. Pascal's bookie 24

    Just asking and all, but if someone was to cut the fuel line on a person’s car, in order to intimidate them for a political purpose; that would be terrorism right? And the sort of thing that, in NZ, the SIS should be investigating right, paying attention to groups who routinely vilify the group to which the victim belonged?

    • Arfamo 24.1

      It’d be more of a criminal act and a police matter I would’ve thought.

      • Pascal's bookie 24.1.1

        I’d have thought most terrorism would be, but we’ve got terrorism laws now right, in this cold new post 9/11 era? So I assume parliament expects them to be used.

        If what Iti was doing was possibly terrorism, then this was, surely.

        • felix

          When did this happen, Pb?

          • Pascal's bookie

            Auckland, last month: http://t.co/y3e2w4Cc4V

            “To think that somebody would attack a nurse for carrying out her duties is really quite deplorable,” said Hilary Graham-Smith of the New Zealand Nurses Organisation.

            The centre has been conducting abortions since the early 1970s. And some pro-choice campaigners fear it could signal the beginning of a new era of extremism.

            “We’d be concerned that this might be sort of an upscale of activism in terms of a fringe anti-choice movement that are looking to target abortion clinics,” said Dr Morgan Healy of ALRANZ (Abortion Law Reform Association).

            In the 1980s a Christchurch clinic was torched, while on the same day an Auckland clinic was threatened with firebombing.

            However pro-life campaigners are adamant they would draw the line at the kind of sabotage police are investigating.

            “We’re not here to attack people, we’re not here to take away people’s rights but at the same time they take people’s rights away and they attack people in the womb,” said protester Trevor ‘Ofamo’oni.

            The president of pro-life group Right To Life said extreme tactics are a thing of the past.

            “The whole movement would be totally opposed to such an action,” Ken Orr told ONE News.

            • felix

              Fuck. Any of Slater and Farrar’s lot been laying low for a few weeks?

            • NickS

              Fuck, if they start up in CHCH and I hear about it I’ll be pulling hours on escort volunteering.

              And Ken Orr’s a lying sack of shit, I really doubt he’d do anything to stop an attack on property if he heard about it.

        • Arfamo

          Don’t know where the terrorism law has ended up. It turned out to be useless in the Urewera case because as drafted it could only be legally applied to international terrorists, didn’t it? I thought the police have a counter-terrorism role as well? Is this in relation to the abortion clinic nurse whose car was interfered with referred to on TVOne newsotainment tonight?

          • Pascal's bookie

            I can’t remember why the Urewera one fell apart, think it was more about proving level of actual intent and planning than international stuff.

            • Arfamo

              Yes, you’re right. Fairly succint explanation of the problems with the terrorism act in that case is here:

              The last bit suggests the act was aimed more at external terrorist threats.

              • Pascal's bookie


                Dr Collins outlined several requirements that would have had to be filled to meet the act’s criteria:

                * That the act in question was a terror act (inducing terror in a civilian population or forcing a government to do or not do an act).

                * That the act advanced an ideological, religious or political cause.

                * That it resulted in one of five outcomes including death or serious injury, a serious risk to the safety of a population, or serious damage to property of great value

                * That the act had taken place, which includes whether there was a credible threat or sufficient planning if it had not been carried out.

                the bold one is the only one that is arguably not met, though I only count 4 of the 5 potential outcomes?

                • Arfamo

                  Yes, agreed PB. It was this quote from the Solicitor-General that made me think the act had focussed on external threats. There was quite a bit of discussion at the time as to why it was so difficult to apply to domestic terrorism. I could be wrong, but I vaguely recall that it was more aimed at identifying and stopping overseas terrorists or people connected to international terrorist groups from getting here, post 9/11.

                  “That very quick summary might give an indication as to why I think it’s unnecessarily complicated and very, very difficult to apply. There will be circumstances where [the act] can be made to work, but certainly not in fundamentally domestic circumstances.”

    • NickS 24.2

      Depends on the context, if it was say a business person or someone with extra-legal debts it would be a crime, but given it’s against someone working at a clinic providing abortion services, I’d class it as terrorism per anti-abortion acts in the USA. As does the FBI presently.

      And political purposes generally fall into terrorism definitions historically, albeit with plenty of fuzziness depending on who’s in positions of power.

      As for this:

      …the SIS should be investigating right…

      It depends on the threat level and reporting of prior threats, but I’d assume they’re keeping an eye on potential anti-abortion nuts at home and those we import from the USA. Much as they’ve likely bugged Kyle Chapman to hell and back (if he’s not an agent provocateur that is) to keep an eye on his various rwnj friends.

  22. North 25

    Yeah, thanks Morrissey at 21 above. We do need to know in the first place and remember, grieve really, in the second place. Gross inhumanity swept over.

    Gotta say I’m a bit surprised you haven’t received the Zionist cacophany in answer.

    “But they throw fucking stones at us !” – whimper bloody whimper – what ???

    And for whomsoever – note I said Zionist, not Jewish.

  23. xtasy 26
    F*** N(a)Ziland – people do NOT care, people are BRAINWASHED, people are ALL AFTER THEIR own, people have NO SOLIDARITY, people are TWO FACED, people are SELF SERVING, people are DIVISIVE, people believe CRAP, people do not bother to STAND UP, people have become the LAUGHING STOCK of any supposedly “developed” society, people let MAINSTREAM MEDIA distract and manipulate them, even ALLOW LIES AND DISTRACTION to take away their thoughts and attention, and where people SUCK UP to the BOSSES, the GOVERNMENT, the next best USELESS PARTY, the hopeless SHIT MEDIA and whatever goes wrong in this place.
    • xtasy 26.1

      I like being minimalised for speaking the truth, but then again, that is how it works. Thanks.

  24. North 27

    Mate, slow down.

    • xtasy 27.1

      Hey North, I do not know where you come from, but I TOTALLY MEAN it, as I have had to deal with WINZ jerks repeatedly, last time they did not believe my doctors records, so I was sent through hell. They never believe anyone, I just learned tonight, what they still do, and they are CULLING sick and disabled of benefits! This comes from someone working on the bloody frontline, and it is REAL!

      They never believe you, they never give you time and credit, they hate you and consider us all that are seriously sick and diabled as FUCKING BLUDGERS!

      And society is NO BETTER, look this thread up:

      So are you damned PROUD to be a New Zealander, when this goes on?

      I met many Kiwis today, while busing and walking and else NOBODY TALKS, NOBODY RELATES, I met NO PERSON

    • xtasy 27.2

      Hey North, I do not know where you come from, but I TOTALLY MEAN it, as I have had to deal with WINZ jerks repeatedly, last time they did not believe my doctors records, so I was sent through hell. They never believe anyone, I just learned tonight, what they still do, and they are CULLING sick and disabled of benefits! This comes from someone working on the bloody frontline, and it is REAL!

      They never believe you, they never give you time and credit, they hate you and consider us all that are seriously sick and diabled as FUCKING BLUDGERS!

      And society is NO BETTER, look this thread up:

      So are you damned PROUD to be a New Zealander, when this goes on?

      I met many Kiwis today, while busing and walking and else NOBODY TALKS, NOBODY RELATES, I met NO PERSON worth even socialising with.

      Do you guys here not get it, part of the damned problem is this damend INTERNET communication, nobody knows how to interact face to face and normally anymore, that is also fucking up the whole left here. You guys thing you have clues and can fucking change things, look at the damned lack of results here, who bloody listens, who takes ACTION.

      I said it, others said, it, without real street and other physical action, you life in damned cyber NO space, you are irrelevant, dreaming, dumb and ignorant. YOU are all losers and lost it long ago.


  25. xtasy 28

    There is always the “last straw” and “solution” I think of every day and night, but “enjoy” yourselves, I will not spoil the fun.

  26. xtasy 29

    Auckland City Mission really “cares”, I suppose, the Bratt and extreme way, ok:

    Click to access Sickness%20Benefit%20explanation.pdf

    I cannot believe the people of NZ tolerating such crap, even such a jerk being supported by the Ministry of Social Development and WiNZ, this is a NAZI country to me, we never have such SHIT in Europe, you guys better clean up your damned Bratt backyard, that is if you care!

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  • Speech to Labour Party Congress 2020
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