Open mike 10/05/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 10th, 2016 - 119 comments
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119 comments on “Open mike 10/05/2016 ”

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  1. Paul 1
    10 May 2016 at 6:21 am

    NZ law firms that lobbied government did business with Mossack Fonseca.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/panama-papers/303462/law-firms'-links-to-mossack-fonseca

  2. Paul 2
    10 May 2016 at 6:29 am

    Is Emmerson the only person on the Herald’s staff who is mentioned the Panama papers?
    This morning stories about diggers, the Bachelor, a ghost ship in Africa an several others were deemed more important that the revelations about our tax haven status.
    New’s media represents that of North Korea’s at times in its adoration of the Dear Leader.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11636230

    • tc 2.1
      10 May 2016 at 6:46 am

      Normal service has been resumed at granny.

      Keep the sheeple titilated and if you have to run a panama story, minimal facts only, no conjecture or opinion, ensure CT memes are included, dry as possible, mention hager and vlwc, park akl house price stories nearby.

      • Paul 2.1.1
        10 May 2016 at 7:03 am

        When I use the word ‘Granny’ I have fond memories of a gentle human being.
        The Herald no longer deserves that moniker.
        Pravda would be better.

        • Colonial Viper 2.1.1.1
          10 May 2016 at 9:28 am

          Yes, Pravda would be better. Because every Soviet citizen took it for granted that Pravda never told the truth, and knew it always had an agenda. They knew you had to read very carefully between the lines of Pravda to glimpse at what was actually going onin the world and why.

    • Stunnedmullet 2.2
      10 May 2016 at 7:02 am

      unless there is some revelation about NZ persons or government involvement the story has no real appeal for Msm anymore.

    • mary_a 2.3
      10 May 2016 at 8:32 am

      @ Paul (2) … and if/when the issue is published in NZH, it will be buried deep in the bowels of the publication, requiring some eagle eyed detection and a magnifying glass to find it!

      Stuff has the MF issue at number 3 news item, under far more important topics such as The Bachelor (no 1), Housing in Auckland (2).

      NZ fast losing its reputation as being a good, decent nation, going down the gurgler big time, while more importantly the Bachelor selects his mate and being told the Auckland housing boom is a lie! WTF?????

  3. mickysavage 3
    10 May 2016 at 7:06 am

    Today could be a very interesting day. Stay tuned …

    • vto 3.1
      10 May 2016 at 7:15 am

      what what? what’s going on? you can’t say “i know a secret but can’t say…”. sheesh

    • mary_a 3.2
      10 May 2016 at 8:35 am

      @ mickysavage (3) …. ooohhh now you are teasing us ….. hint please!

      • mickysavage 3.2.1
        10 May 2016 at 9:39 am

        Nothing to do with the Panama Papers …

        • Puckish Rogue 3.2.1.1
          10 May 2016 at 9:49 am

          Well now that is intriguing

        • veutoviper 3.2.1.2
          10 May 2016 at 11:23 am

          Presumably something that happens at 4pm today. Or rather was supposed to happen at 4pm today NZ time but a certain blog ostensibly outside NZ jumped the gun with a statement by one of the players appearing for a short time early this morning. That post has now disappeared.

          • Puckish Rogue 3.2.1.2.1
            10 May 2016 at 11:42 am

            Can you say what it was about?

            • veutoviper 3.2.1.2.1.1
              10 May 2016 at 11:55 am

              Assuming my guess is correct, not without getting myself and TS into trouble legally.

              Presumably all will be revealed in a few more hours – both here and elsewhere in the blogisphere. As MS said, nothing to do with foreign trusts, Panama papers etc.

              A very different messy spider’s web of intrigue, he said/he said, accusations/counter accusations etc etc which has been ongoing for a couple of years.

              • Puckish Rogue …
                10 May 2016 at 12:54 pm

                Ah ok, so its quite serious then

              • Enough is Enough …
                10 May 2016 at 1:57 pm

                As long as it is not another Oravida which I think bore the shit out of most people by the end of it.

                • Puckish Rogue …
                  10 May 2016 at 2:26 pm

                  It may have been reading Jeffery Archer at an impressionable age but I do enjoy a good, juicy political scandal

                  • BM …
                    10 May 2016 at 2:45 pm

                    You’ll be surprised when you find out

                  • instrider …
                    10 May 2016 at 3:32 pm

                    It’s not really that interesting, just interblog warfare going criminal. It’s unofficially accessible on the internet already.

                    i predict there will be a lot of self congratulatory high fives on the standard once the admission of guilt is public and the ability to name and shame is released.

                    If you can stand it, also seek out the a1000 word long poor me excuse laden explanation. That sense of self pity is about the only similarity with Jeffrey archer or perhaps tony veitch would be a more timely comparison.

                • Enough is Enough …
                  10 May 2016 at 4:02 pm

                  Come on Mickey

                  we are waiting…this better be good

              • b waghorn …
                10 May 2016 at 2:57 pm

                “he said/he said”
                Not she said ?? A clue maybe??

        • Joe Wilbur 3.2.1.4
          10 May 2016 at 3:48 pm

          And this site still shows as shabby in the big reveal.

    • Puckish Rogue 3.3
      10 May 2016 at 8:47 am

      With the greatest respect as you have considerably more experience with setting up of trusts than I do it is in my considered opinion that I believe the only thing that may or may not come out today will be of interest only to political tragics, the beltway and the msm

      However it will not be of interest to the general public of NZ, therefore the Panama Papers will, in weeks/months to come be considered a political flop to rank along side the Moment of Truth or the Dirty Politics publication

      I believe this is what will happen because of the intense media speculation that has caused an expectation that hasn’t been matched by the contents of the paper

      In that trusts were formed in NZ prior to 2008 and more trusts were formed after but breaking no laws

      My belief will most likely be shown to be correct by the next few months in which I expect there to be a small bump in Nationals fortunes in the polls which will show the voters dissatisfaction with the, possible, collusion between hackers, the MSM and the opposition

      • Ad 3.3.1
        10 May 2016 at 9:03 am

        You’re looking in the wrong direction PR.
        Different story entirely breaking late today.

      • Draco T Bastard 3.3.2
        10 May 2016 at 9:17 am

        I’m pretty sure that the general public really are interested in finding out that the rich are fraudsters and are stealing from them and a daily basis.

        • Puckish Rogue 3.3.2.1
          10 May 2016 at 9:24 am

          You’re right in that respect however I think that this case is far removed from most peoples day to day experiences so as such its not “real” to them and because of that its not considered a big deal

          For example what would be the difference to NZ if these trusts weren’t in NZ but were elsewhere? Well there wouldn’t be any difference at all save some lawyers and accountants would have a bit less money.

          However I may very well be wrong.

          • Draco T Bastard 3.3.2.1.1
            10 May 2016 at 10:25 am

            You’re right in that respect however I think that this case is far removed from most peoples day to day experiences so as such its not “real” to them and because of that its not considered a big deal

            You think wrong. This hits home hard.

            For example what would be the difference to NZ if these trusts weren’t in NZ but were elsewhere?

            Wrong question. It should be: How much better would their lives be if these rich pricks weren’t stealing from them?

            And the answer to that is much better.

            We cannot afford the rich.

            • Puckish Rogue 3.3.2.1.1.1
              10 May 2016 at 10:51 am

              Well this could be true but are NZ companies using these tax havens to avoid paying taxes in NZ?

              • Draco T Bastard …
                10 May 2016 at 10:54 am

                Probably. In fact, I heard that a number of people in NZ business have accounts in tax havens.

                • Puckish Rogue …
                  10 May 2016 at 11:01 am

                  Then, hopefully, the IRD will come down on them if they’re not paying taxes owed to NZ

                  • Draco T Bastard …
                    10 May 2016 at 3:28 pm

                    Well, that’s the point isn’t – it’s legal and this government seems to have gone out of their way to ensure that IRD can’t do anything about it.

                    Immoral actions such as tax avoidance should not be legal.

          • Editractor 3.3.2.1.2
            10 May 2016 at 2:54 pm

            House prices ARE real to NZers though, so It will be interesting then to see what the data on the numbers of properties sold to foreigners being released today will reveal. It’s then only a short hop, step and a jump to the idea that the NZ property market is being screwed by wealthy foreigners (with possibly dubious backgrounds) using the trust system. Even if it’s wrong, it would be a difficult idea to shift and it isn’t without precedence ( http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/7c329314-32ae-11e5-bdbb-35e55cbae175.html – http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/panama-papers-london-property-offshore-wealth-exposed-global-elite-who-own-it-1553521 ).

            Key has already been linked to all this through his “lawyer”, his continued lackadaisical defence of the trust system and his government’s inaction on the housing issue.

        • indiana 3.3.2.2
          10 May 2016 at 9:38 am

          The general public want to be rich too…they will want to know these guys did it so they can emulate it!

      • Tricledrown 3.3.3
        10 May 2016 at 9:33 am

        PR this is an International story not some storm in a tea cup in little old back Banana milkshake republic NZ.
        I will run down queens St completely naked if it goes away within the Month.

        • Puckish Rogue 3.3.3.1
          10 May 2016 at 9:41 am

          Sorry I was not clear in what I wrote. The story itself won’t go away in a couple of months but the result in the polls is what I was referring to, so in regards of doing damage to National it will considered another flop.

          • Pat 3.3.3.1.1
            10 May 2016 at 10:09 am

            this appears to be progressing from dancing on the head of a pin to limboing on the point of a needle

        • alwyn 3.3.3.2
          10 May 2016 at 5:46 pm

          Please tell us that Whale Oil was not this incredibly important story?
          If this was it can you warn us when your Queen Street run (or waddle) is going to be. Then we can all avoid the appalling display.
          This has already sunk. In fact except on this site and Slater’s one it never reached the surface.

          If it wasn’t please Slater please tell us what it was.

    • Jenny Kirk 3.4
      10 May 2016 at 9:22 am

      Is Parliament sitting ? If so its question time today. I wonder if Key will front up….and if he does, what’s the betting he sits there smiling, joking, and turns any serious question into a farce !

  4. Rosemary McDonald 4
    10 May 2016 at 7:40 am

    Moko Rangitoheriri would almost definitely be alive today had someone, anyone, done their fucking job.

    Shame on Te Whare Oranga Wairua Maori Women’s Refuge for not saving this child.

    Shame on CYFs for not saving this child.

    You were both told, and neither of you could be bothered even going to the home and seeing if Moko was OK.

    A child made a disclosure of abuse and you twits went and asked the abuser if they were abusing? How many times has that happened and the at risk child dies.

    You professionals signed this child’s death warrant.

    I’m sorry…wtff. WTFF!

    (trigger alert.)
    Systemic failures and lack of accountability in child protection sector leading to inevitable death of one child and the life of the survivors forever blighted. No professional accepts responsibility.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/79772891/sister-told-social-worker-moko-being-abused

    • Halfcrown 4.1
      10 May 2016 at 8:13 am

      +1

    • Puckish Rogue 4.2
      10 May 2016 at 8:57 am

      Hi Rosemary

      This is something I have no experience of so if I inadvertently say something inappropriate I apologise in advance as it comes from ignorance not malice

      I’ve thought that the policy of keeping the child within the family unit is flawed, I’ve thought that CYPs are not doing a very good job (the workers are probably doing their best however), I’ve long thought that it almost seems as if adoption is discouraged in NZ and that what National is proposing in starting again has merit

      I think that since CYPs is failing it does need to start again but I’m also thinking if the same people in charge from CYPs are transferred to the same positions then nothing much will change

      Do you think this is a good idea from National or will it (most likely) be doomed to failure?

      • Rosemary McDonald 4.2.1
        10 May 2016 at 10:16 am

        “This is something I have no experience of …” 🙂

        “I’ve thought that the policy of keeping the child within the family unit is flawed,”

        Any policy, if rigidly applied, automatically becomes flawed.

        The overarching rule should always be “Do what ever is best to keep that child safe NOW.”

        Someone has to take responsibility when abuse is reported.

        Marama Fox did a great piece over on TDB a few weeks ago….the comments are closed unfortunately, as it would be very interesting to hear what she has to say about this case.

        http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2016/04/26/can-cyfs-save-children/

        What the government will do is contract out core responsibilities to ‘providers’. (Labour did this with disability and it has not gone well…especially for those who need the most support.) In the Disability Sector….provider organisations are well seeded with former Misery of Health staff…all a bit incestuous.

        “Contracting out” further distances the government from responsibility when the system fails individuals….

        Whanau Ora…where the hell are they??? There’s a good idea that has come to nothing, nothing, nothing…

        I don’t have the answers…but from the point of view of an abused child and the point of view of a former foster parent…’get the children to a place of safety, and pull out all the stops to sort the shit out in the home.’

        We all should keep talking about this.

        • adam 4.2.1.1
          10 May 2016 at 10:28 am

          Rosemary McDonald Whanau Ora, has been dying slowly, in the face of odd accounting requested by government. I think only two organisation are left in Auckland who still use the programme money. I’d have to check that. got to run.

          Also having met folks who worked within Whanaua Ora, yes great idea,. Major criticism, one hell of a lot of paper work though – which meant face to face time was ever decreasing. – and considering the programme is only a few years old – what a spectacular way to kill it. Almost every year since inception more government paper work.

          Willie and Boomers show did a good piece as well. Marama Fox is proving a good MP, I just hope she does not get burnt out.

        • International Rescue 4.2.1.2
          10 May 2016 at 10:36 am

          Thank you for raising this issue Rosemary. I have a close friend who works on behalf of at risk children within the Maori community (due to who her employers are). She is very clear…the fragmentation of data between Gvt agencies, the obsession by CYFS to maintain familial contact, the disgraceful movement of children between multiple caregivers…these are all key factors in the problems we have today. Changes are being made, but these are far too late for far too many children.

          • Rosemary McDonald 4.2.1.2.1
            10 May 2016 at 10:50 am

            “…he obsession by CYFS to maintain familial contact,”

            Oh, yes. A huge problem.

            “…the disgraceful movement of children between multiple caregivers,”

            …and fuck all support for caregivers number five, six, seven, eight, nine…..doomed to failure from the get go. Perpetual motion….

            We did (owing to our particular circumstances) emergency and short term care only….hence the idea that we’d love and care for the children while CYFs put all their social work skills into sorting our the family’s shit…or finding a long term secure placement.

            There was ONE local social worker who we could rely on to a) have a couple of plans for the child
            b) had a ‘make it so’ philosophy
            c) kept us (the foster family) informed
            d) oh, and treated us as part of ‘the team’, and with respect.

        • Maz 4.2.1.3
          10 May 2016 at 1:37 pm

          I’m in the ‘be cautious’ camp too. I know there have been calls from a few sectors of the community to place or return children to their extended families. However, I don’t believe that biology should precede one’s right to one’s child or children.

          My concern is the generational dysfunctionality that exists within these families. Alcohol and drugs, along with physical and sexual abuse are experienced and perpetrated by many generations of one family. While this is their norm, someone else knows what is happening to these children…and doing nothing! How many lives could we have saved just by taking the time to make that crucial phonecall or contact!

          Surely, if a child has been exposed to all of the above, then under no circumstances should that child be permanently reunited with that family.

      • adam 4.2.2
        10 May 2016 at 10:20 am

        They try and keep children in the wider family. Not the immediate, where the problem is. Keeping kids within the family means less problems later on. Rather than putting them in foster care, and all the issues that come with that.

        “I think that since CYPs is failing, it does need to start again, but I’m also thinking if the same people in charge from CYPs are transferred to the same positions – then nothing much will change” — On the money with that one.

        • Rosemary McDonald 4.2.2.1
          10 May 2016 at 10:39 am

          “Rather than putting them in foster care, and all the issues that come with that.”

          Maybe we could have a wee think about the premise that ‘foster care is bad’?

          Maybe we could reframe it as “Respite Care” (as happens in the disability sector) then it wouldn’t attract the same negative connotations?

          Because that option is always going to be needed.

          Like, seriously.

          • Puckish Rogue 4.2.2.1.1
            10 May 2016 at 10:58 am

            I don’t know how accurate these figures are but I have no reason to disbelieve them: http://adoptionoption.org.nz/adoption/new-zealand-adoption-prof/

            as they seem to be in line with this article: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/420491/Number-of-babies-available-for-adoption-falls-sharply

            But I wonder if adoption has somehow been, for lack of a better word, “stigmatized” or isn’t encouraged (I’ve considered adoption in the past as, medically speaking, kids aren’t likely to happen for us) and so more kids are kept in situations when they could, maybe, be adopted instead

            • Rosemary McDonald 4.2.2.1.1.1
              10 May 2016 at 11:18 am

              Geezus PR…now you’re stirring up a hornet’s nest!

              Stigmatised is not too stronger word…some bring in ‘stolen generation’ arguments and then all discussion goes to shit.

              There will be people around here who were adopted, and it went well for them. Others not so well….and I’d like to see if the rates of abuse and neglect of adopted kids is higher than kids who grow up with their birth parents.

              Open adoption is the norm today….with the adoptive parents having full custody rights, but with the (usually) birth mother involved. This can work well.

              CYFs clamour to encourage foster parents to take out ‘permanency’ arrangements so the child has some security…the birth family have rights of access and contact…sometimes these arrangements go horribly wrong for lack of boundary enforcement by CYFs.

              Older children are harder to place in permanent care or adoption….

              • Puckish Rogue …
                10 May 2016 at 11:26 am

                Yeah I’d forgotten about the stolen generation and the wounds they could open

          • adam 4.2.2.1.2
            10 May 2016 at 2:00 pm

            I don’t have a problem with short term foster care, and I agree it is very useful.

            I also agree we need to be open minded, but I won’t buy into another shake up for the sake of a shake up. I get the system is broken, but if it is more of the same with different labels – what’s the point? And if it is going to strangled for money to do a real transitions – what’s the point?

            I do have a problem of alienating people from their families and culture. I have a real problem with that, and having live in Australia, know it can only get worse, not better if we go down the path of the state knows best about children.

    • AsleepWhileWalking 4.3
      10 May 2016 at 9:15 am

      yes.

    • left for dead 4.4
      10 May 2016 at 1:45 pm

      Very sad Rosemary, and I have experienced their willful negligence. 👿

  5. Grey Area 5
    10 May 2016 at 7:52 am

    Strong interview from Andrew Little on Morning Report just now making clear, relevant points about what he quite rightly calls a grubby little industry while not being diverted by a shameful piece of “journalism” by Guyon Espiner. Liked the way Little called Espiner on him challenging Little to provide one piece of evidence of criminal activity in these overseas trusts when Little had made no mention of that aspect at all.

  6. TTD 6
    10 May 2016 at 8:16 am

    Worse display by Andrew Little to be frank.
    He is not very good at being interviewed doesn’t seem to be able to think on his feet.
    Little should be in a really strong position again and fluffed it.
    Oh well.

    • Pat 6.1
      10 May 2016 at 8:24 am

      “…..doesn’t seem to be able to think on his feet.”
      and yet he seamlessly sidestepped GE’s attempted distraction….so top flight journo outmaneuvered by incompetent politician…..even worse.

  7. dv 7
    10 May 2016 at 8:47 am

    Have a look at the requirement to register as a trustee of a foreign trust

    Basically name and address-
    NO ID seems to be required.

    http://www.interest.co.nz/sites/default/files/embedded_images/Trust%20info.pdf

    AND the search function on the dump database is super fast.

  9. Draco T Bastard 9
    10 May 2016 at 9:14 am

    Well done, Mr Weldon!

    First You Stuffed TV3

    Then You Stuffed Yourself

    MediaWorks didn’t win the Roger Award (the Judges Report here). It didn’t even get into the top three. That simply shows what fierce competition there is in the transnational corporate race to the bottom.

    😈

  10. Tricledrown 10
    10 May 2016 at 9:29 am

    PR it is doomed because pay rates for social workers is not increasing .
    Also no increase in numbers of social workers at all.
    Social workers at CYPs were expected to have 60 to 80 cases per worker 10 times more than is practical.
    Causing a massive burnout and staff turnover no continuity.
    The family court is a lawyers money go round which wastes another 60% of Social workers time.
    Research at Canterbury university shows that putting a trained social worker in charge of a CYPs family is the best way of turning these highly dysfunctional families around it costs $72,000
    Per year but is much cheaper than the million dollar welfare families.
    National and Labour are aware of this successful programming but claim its to expensive.
    That’s total BS.
    Many CYPs families are crime ridden the cost is much higher locking up the next generation than fixing the problem.
    This govt is doing another make over and not changing the way they are approaching the problem.

    • Puckish Rogue 10.1
      10 May 2016 at 9:36 am

      It is a quite a huge task in front of National (and Labour when it gets back in) I don’t envy them

  11. mac1 11
    10 May 2016 at 9:48 am

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/4868884/NZ-slated-by-activist-over-tax-haven-problem

    In order to shed some light as to who and how long people have been naming New Zealand as a tax haven, a little Googing shows this 2011 report in which a tax haven activist names NZ as one.

    “Tax haven activist Nicholas Shaxson has hit out at New Zealand for opposing a plan to create a UN body to tackle tax haven abuse.
    Shaxson, who has become famous following the publication of Treasure Islands: Tax Havens and the Men Who Stole the World, said New Zealand is letting down the developing world.
    He has also revealed that New Zealand has a growing reputation as an offshore haven itself. He predicts New Zealand will appear on the Tax Justice Network’s Financial Secrecy Index by 2013.”

    The Greens in 2013 quoted the Tax Justice Network as a source for their November 2013 claim that NZ was a tax haven.

    Incidentally, the Tax Justice Network is the source also for the claim that some $7.4 billion is lost annually to the NZ government through tax evasion, in the ‘shadow economy’. This figure was known about in 2011.

    Peter Dunne, former Revenue Minister from 2005-2013, complains today that he did not know about the size of the growth in foreign trusts. The Greens alerted the country to this in November 2013. Dunne was Revenue Minister in 2011, when the government eased the rules on Foreign Trusts.

    Do we believe that he never asked for information about the effects of this easing from his officials? Incompetency or lies from either or both of these actors. Do we also believe that other members of the government never sought information on the effects of these changes to trust law?

    This trust law is of course the concern of several foreign tax haven lawyers who were able to secure a meeting with the new Revenue Minister within 7 days of seeking it, a meeting which was held in the offices of one of these ‘highly ethical’ lawyers, and as a result of which meeting departmental advice was over-ridden and changes were not made which would have been inimical to their interests.

    • Draco T Bastard 11.1
      10 May 2016 at 10:36 am

      Do we believe that he never asked for information about the effects of this easing from his officials?

      With Dunne? I’m quite happy to believe that and if they told him anyway he would have ignored them and listened to the business people who wanted to keep rorting governments.

      • mac1 11.1.1
        10 May 2016 at 11:01 am

        “Rorting’ us citizens, too, Draco T. 🙁

      • ianmac 11.1.2
        10 May 2016 at 11:37 am

        When Dunne was asked yesterday if he would now ask questions of IRD, he backed off the concern at his lack of being informed, because he is no longer Revenue Minister. Still ask couldn’t he, though probably not a useful answer.

  12. joe90 12
    10 May 2016 at 12:54 pm

    Public Culture, the Duke University Press journal of cultural studies, has temporarily suspended the paywall on the latest issue –

    Climate Change and the Future of Cities: Mitigation, Adaptation, and Social Change on an Urban Planet

    http://publicculture.dukejournals.org/content/28/2_79.toc

    (PDF’s too so if you’re interested get ’em while you can)

  13. joe90 13
    10 May 2016 at 3:42 pm

    Rodrigo Duterte, the populist candidate who vows to to pardon himself for murder, looks set to win the Philippine presidency.

    Polls have closed in the Philippines presidential election with an unofficial, partial tally of votes suggesting a strong lead for populist mayor Rodrigo Duterte.

    Andy Bautista, head of the polling commission, said voter turnout in Monday’s election was estimated at 80 percent, which he said was a record in the country.

    While authorities described the overall conduct of the elections as peaceful, police said at least 10 people died across the country in election day violence as gunmen attacked polling stations, ambushed vehicles and stole vote-counting machines.

    Based on 80 percent of votes counted, Duterte, whose controversial campaign focused on a pledge to kill criminals, had 13.7 million votes, GMA, a national news website, said, citing figures from the election commission. He was followed by Grace Poe at 7.6 million and Manuel Roxas on eight million.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/05/philippines-election-160509061757928.html

    John Oliver – Rodrigo Duterte, ‘Trump of the East’

  14. Colonial Viper 14
    10 May 2016 at 3:53 pm

    Vaughan Little:

    If you’re Christian, if you’re a monarchist, if you’re a straight white guy, if you disagree with mass medication, and decide to stand your ground, then yes you will be dumped on from a great height. You see, you will be seen to be highly irrational, highly unconventional, and more than slightly delusional/ignorant.

    “Christianity in action” seems like such a quaint anachronism to some. Even though it is still the guts of what needs to be achieved.

    It makes a mockery of the supposed broad church ethos of the party. It seems that the neoliberals and the free trade globalists are very well tolerated though.

    Having said that I think that we should certainly consider profanity personally directed at other commentators becoming a moderatable offence.

  15. Ovid 15
    10 May 2016 at 4:12 pm

    Slater admits soliciting hack. Has he gone through some form of restorative justice process with The Standard?

  16. Puckish Rogue 16
    10 May 2016 at 4:27 pm

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/79814716/panama-papers-green-party-donor-listed-in-offshore-leaks

    James Shaw is showing better judgement then Andrew Little:

    Shaw made clear the party were not against Kiwis having trusts overseas, they just wanted more transparency and disclosure on their details.

    “It’s not whether someone’s got a foreign trust, it’s whether they’re doing anything illegitimate such as tax avoidance, money laundering of anything like that,” he said.

    Whereas Andrew Littles knee jerk reaction is : http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/303327/labour-would-ban-foreign-trusts

    Decisions made in haste always lead to waste (or something)

    • Gangnam Style 16.1
      10 May 2016 at 4:54 pm

      Yeah but not quite what Little said was it, is ‘knee jerk’ the new buzz word or something.

      • Rodel 16.1.1
        10 May 2016 at 5:28 pm

        Quite right GS:
        The PM, Mr English and others on the right are trying to introduce a few new buzz words. Simple derogatory impact statements which they hope will catch on..’knee jerk’…’barking mad’ ..’bonkers’.. and there will be more to come.Count them.

        Must have got new strategy instructions from ‘Sir’ Lynton-CT

    • Chuck 16.2
      10 May 2016 at 5:46 pm

      Maybe because James Shaw knew a larger donor to the Green Party was about to be outed on the Panama dump release.

      Now if this was a National party donor, cue the pitch forks and hanging rope!!

  17. mary_a 17
    10 May 2016 at 4:35 pm

    Labour was correct. Evidence is out there now. The majority of property sales in NZ, particularly Auckland was to Chinese buyers.

    Nothing racist about it, because it’s fact!

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11636711

    • mlpc 17.1
      10 May 2016 at 4:53 pm

      Sorry, but you are wrong.
      The Herald story doesn’t say that. It says that the majority of the overseas buyers of property (3% of the total) were Chinese.
      This implies that around 2% of sales overall went to overseas Chinese buyers.

    • instrider 17.2
      10 May 2016 at 4:55 pm

      Mary you are wrong about what labour was claiming, and labour was wrong in what they were claiming. There is no tsunami and 40% of homes are not going to chinky named foreigners. Ironically the most accurate person was the barfoot and thompson ceo who said all along it was between 5 @nd 8% of buyers were overseas asians. He was only wrong by about 100%

    • Expat 17.3
      10 May 2016 at 5:44 pm

      mary_a

      The information provided by the herald is for this year- Jan to March, yet the comment still says

      “Nearly 60 per cent of Auckland houses sold to foreign buyers went to Chinese investors, new data shows.”

      There has been a huge reduction of Chinese buyers since late last year, but prior to that, Labour was correct to identify the heavy speculative investment in Auckland property by a particular group, just recently in Sydney the media was more than happy to provide the stats on Chinese property investors, indicating they had spent $12B in the last year, no one… no one called them racist for identifying them as Chinese, if they had been Spanish, then they would have been referred to as Spanish investors, it’s not racist to identify specific groups within a population, if it were Kiwi’s in China snapping up properties at a fast rate, do you think the Chinese would hesitate to identify them as Kiwi’s, of course not,

      The whole “racist” thing was to throw the public off the scent, the govt’s happy for foreign money to come to NZ as there’s not a lot else happening economically.

      • Chuck 17.3.1
        10 May 2016 at 6:23 pm

        Your argument goes up in a puff of smoke Expat…Labour went through the sales data (illegally taken from a Real estate company) and used the “test” of any Chinese sounding names as the basis for their stats…at best very crude, if not racist.

        However I agree its too early, and the sampling of data needs more time. But the 40% that Labour says verse 3%…hmm even doubling it to 6% still leaves a huge gap to make up.

        Now mary_a has misread a news head line…I trust it was an honest mistake.

        • Expat 17.3.1.1
          10 May 2016 at 7:28 pm

          Chuck

          I find it interesting that these stats are available now and weren’t a year ago, and just because residents purchased the bulk of properties, doesn’t mean that it wasn’t funded from overseas, the argument from Little was to raise the concerns of rapid increase of housing prices in Auckland, making it extremely difficult for ordinary Kiwi’s to buy a home.

          As so many RW’s pointed out at the end of last year, Key’s changing the rules had reduced foreign sales, so the stats are for the first three months of this year, the same RW’s would say that this is evidence of the govt changes working and the subsequent results portrayed in the Herald story, but the same thing happened to the rest of the world, Chinese residential investment ramped down very quickly over the last year as evidenced in all the major cities around the world.

          The 40% Little suggested is probably too high, but I know that in some suburbs of Auckland the percentage is more than 80% and in others less than 1%, in reality, the issue was raised and it is an important issue: housing affordability.

    • Colonial Viper 17.4
      10 May 2016 at 6:27 pm

      What the hell is wrong with you “progressives”?

      Listen, Maori are more criminally inclined than pakeha. It’s a fact, and the conviction and prison statistics prove it. You can’t argue with the numbers, and its not racist to say so because its the facts. Look at the over representation of Maori in our courts and in our prisons.

      Not racist. Right?

      The problem that the dickheads in Labour made for themselves is that they never said:

      “we believe that highly cashed up foreign buyers, especially from China, but also from many other countries, have been pushing property prices in Auckland out of reach of Kiwis for years.”

      And their whole “Chinese sounding last names” approach was simply stupid.

      The cream on the cake for me is that Labour’s reputation as a tolerant, progressive party amongst Asians of all races went into the toilet thanks to their tactical blunder, and their poll numbers have been down since.

      Not saying that timing = causality but that’s what happened around the same time.

      • Expat 17.4.1
        10 May 2016 at 7:50 pm

        Political correctness is never going to fix the problem, raising the issue, at least forced the Govt to make some changes, but that aspect got swept under the carpet, the nats wouldn’t have introduced changes without some pressure from somewhere, Little actually achieved a result, but the beat up has derided that achievement, the media churning out a negative view point as usual, there’s two sides to every story.

        “You can’t argue with the numbers,”

        Those stats that you quote probably have no credibility, and politically spurned.

        I’m not saying the issue was handled perfectly, but it was raised, persistently, to get the Govt to move, you can spin things any way you like, but the reality is that changes were made, some acknowledgement of the seriousness of the issue.

      • Colonial Viper 17.5.1
        10 May 2016 at 6:43 pm

        Bernard Hickey says the real number of foreign sales of NZ houses will fall between 3% and 48%.

        The current data has a number of problems with it which mean that we can’t tell where the real number falls.

        • Pat 17.5.1.1
          10 May 2016 at 6:50 pm

          exactly…and it is pertinent to remember that the historical aspect will remain unmeasured so will continue to be a source of uncertainty and debate…….and the change in declaration requirements may in itself impact the sales.

  18. Colonel Tusker 18
    10 May 2016 at 6:39 pm

    Well Switzerland has done quite well out of being a tax haven. They don’t collect taxes on the deposits, but can then lend that money and charge interest on it. Switzerland has an excellent international reputation, despite harbouring Nazi gold, no? I don’t really see the problem, NZ needs money, this is a pretty good way of getting some.

    Singapore too, they say, is a tax haven for all sorts of dirty money from China, Indonesia, elsewhere in Asia. Great! Stable, efficient, honest, easy to do business with. Phrases like that.

  19. Expat 19
    10 May 2016 at 6:49 pm

    Here’s a “little” thing from kiwiblog, pardon the pun.

    “Five Labour MPs went out one day
    Over the hills and far away
    Angry Andrew said, “Quack, quack, quack, quack,”
    but only four Labour MPs came waddling back…
    …
    Four Labour MPs went out one day
    …
    Three Labour MPs went out one day
    …
    Two Labour MPs went out one day
    …
    One Labour MP went out one day
    Over the hills and far away
    Angry Andrew said, “Quack, quack, quack, quack,”
    but none of the Labour MPs liked him.””

    I can see why there are the resident RW bloggers here at TS, kiwiblog has no theme for them to write about, just angry, stupid, incoherent bullshit is the general topic of the day, I only went there to gauge their response to Slater’s hacking activity and surprise, surprise, not a mention.

    The piece above is a classic example of the level of intelligence of these RW nutjobs.

  20. Chooky 20
    10 May 2016 at 11:46 pm

    Uncle Sam wants you if you are a hacker:

    ‘ ‘Unprecedented’: UK activist fearing US extradition, 99yr sentence awaits landmark court ruling’

    https://www.rt.com/uk/342430-lauri-love-encryption-ruling/

    “UK authorities have hijacked a civil suit launched by a cybersecurity expert from Suffolk accused of hacking into the Federal Reserve, in a move that has sinister implications for journalists and others who rely on encrypted data storage and communications.

    Gifted programmer and human rights activist Lauri Love, 31, stands accused of intercepting online systems operated by the Fed, NASA, the FBI, the US Department of Defense and the US Environmental Protection Agency, among others…

  21. Murray Simmonds 21
    11 May 2016 at 12:47 pm

    “GOVERNMENT:
    If you think the problems we create are bad . . . Just wait until you see our solutions.”

    Love that quote. Here’s my pick for offshore blog of the day:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-05-10/inevitability-unintended-consequences

    It opens with a couple of Hillarious (but definitely not Clinton-esque) examples of policies that went terribly wrong (The law of Unintended Consequences) then shows how current economic policy has turned out to be much the same. Quite a clever article really, IMO.