Also if free trade is so great why were milk prices at over $7 a kilo milk solids in 2008 but now forecast at $3.85 kilo – the free trade deals are clearly not trickling down into the farmers pockets?
More like a short term spike in speculation.
Has anyone done any research on if the Nats sign TPPA that Fonterra will even be allowed to remain a co operative? Wouldn’t that be against the secret rules?
Let us with a gladsome mind keep pretending that the Government’s decision not to diversify, to put all our eggs in the one dairy basket and make it the key driver of the economy was going to keep delivering the economic miracle forever and ever, Amen.
And now the evil day has arrived, there’s a worldwide over-supply and glut and we’re supposed to feel sorry for those who scrambled to get in on the white gold rush, didn’t think twice about the environmental ramifications of massive dairy conversions, are mortgaged up the tits and will be in the land of fiscal suffering and ouch for a very, very long time.
That’s if they do manage to hang on and survive, which is unlikely with the prediction that 90 per cent of farmers will be affected.
Really, buy them up and make sure that they’re never sold to the private sector again. Return most of them to native forest as it’s time we got on with being a developed nation that looks after it’s environment rather than a nation that refuses to enter the 21st century and thinks that farming is the bees knees.
EDIT:
Primary Industries Minister Nathan Guy said global dairy prices were falling further and faster than anyone anticipated.
Neither the farmers nor National anticipated diary prices falling – ever. They thought that the Great White Wave would continue forever. Muldoon did the same thing with sheep. Hell, our history is rife with National always doing the same bloody thing which is why our economy and society is so far behind where it should be.
Panicking in a time of crisis – actually even to refer to the economic downturn as a ‘crisis’ is apparently reckless talk that can lead to contagion.
One of those nameless, National flag waving Herald writers tried this on not long ago. Said the economy was all about confidence and negative talk from those who don’t agree with government policy is very dangerous.
Bugger open debate, and that’s right, yet again it’s Labour’s fault.
Yes Jane. Especially this bit,”And now the evil day has arrived, there’s a worldwide over-supply and glut and we’re supposed to feel sorry for those who scrambled to get in on the white gold rush,…”
I felt sorry for the individual athletes who lost out to the Springbok Tour in the 80s but not at all sorry for the Rugby Union.
I feel sorry for the individual farmer who has a family and trying really hard to make a go of it but not at all sorry for the Dairy Industry.
“”Even Labour aren’t looking at the only real solution we have – the government purchases the farms and hires the farmers.””
Na cut them down to 300 cow blocka and lease them out for 10 /30 year periods .
Been there, done that – remember what has been done here before – perhaps more people will have empathy with tangata whenua and their justified claims, somehow I doubt it.
People are going to be wondering how they lost it all for a long time. It may take decades before they get out of the misery and stop fighting to try and get it back and finally start to become compassionate with other groups.
Not sure there’ll be a flood of “investors” pouring money into unprofitable, grossly over-valued NZ dairy farms. And a lot, maybe most, of the “farmers” affected will be overseas and local investors who poured money into the industry on the basis of $6 + payouts. The future will be looking very sad for them.
Peters is talking the economic reality in that piece, or reported that way.
I just hope we’re not heading down the track of a South Canterbury style solution where the government “guarantees” the loans to take them off the bank’s hands. The way Andrew’s been reported there, we could walk straight into English coming out with that.
The banks and “investors” got themselves into this, at the expense of the rest of the economy, they can get themselves out of it.
Doesn’t make any sense to vertically integrate when you can buy product well below your or your supplier’s cost of production. You’ll be trying to de-intergrate if you can.
Historical precedent from previous boom collapses, like in the late 1800’s, would point to an exit by overseas investors.
Yes Serco style, by cutting corners, getting corporate welfare and environmental pollution, intensive factory farms for dairy etc
Do you really want Mad Cow, Foot and Mouth and so forth plaguing Europe in NZ?
Do you want to see our cows eating shit and newspaper and meat products made into ‘grain’ aka USA style of factory farming?
Our rivers and streams flooded with effluent cos the government is too frightened or is unable to sue anyone because they are too afraid, or the process to stop it takes years and years of court action in a foreign tribunal.
Our farmers are efficient. It is the politicising that is a real barrier to trade. for example milk could have sold to Russian a while back, but our ‘friends’ said no and the government put a stop to it.
Now farmers who were fed stories about ‘expansion’ for the ‘boom’ – the boom from free trade has not happened, instead food scares, our IP being given away and so forth have lowered prices.
Not quite Sabine, just gotta tie up loose ends by signing TPP, to make sure every last bit of control handed overseas, then “Job Done” and off to Hawaii
Got some bad news for you. An El Nino is rearing it’s ugly head. If you live in western parts summer will be colder, windier and wetter than usual. If you live in eastern parts it means cloudy, cooler days with very little rain.
Another $1-2 billion loss for farmers this summer from drought along with the $4 billion or so in reduced dairy price payouts and things are looking pretty bad.
Probably taking global climate change a bit more seriously at government level could have the farmers a lot more than speculation on a return of a high milk solid price.
Another mismanagement issue from Fonterra. All those years of record milk solids prices and no move away from the use of dirty coal. What a disgracefully run business.
I was interested that Fran O’Sullivan commented on Q+A that there had been gaming on the GDT. I was suspecting something like that going on, so why didn’t the 100+ financial staff Fonterra recently laid off know about this? Or did they? And how could the downturn in demand from China be a ‘surprise’ to all Fonterra’s and the governments’ experts? And if Fonterra is 80% in debt as mentioned in the Dominion Post article linked & quoted in the comments above, who is lending Fonterra the money for Fonterra to make two-year-interest-free loans to struggling farmers?
It is mind boggling what did they think would happen when other countries producing, or capable of producing milk powder would do when they saw the prices Fonterra were receiving at gobal milk powder auctions.
And still there in lala land thinking the price will lift again in the future. The likes of Northland dairy farmers should be getting advice to convert to dry stock as the export market is looking a lot brighter. And this useless Government should be assisting this.
“who is lending Fonterra the money for Fonterra to make two-year-interest-free loans to struggling farmers?”
Lots of nice friendly debt market investors apparently.
Those paragons of social conscience who selflessly help companies struggle through the tough times 😉
If the [incomplete] list of bonds below is anything to go by Fonterra’s juggling skills will be put to the test.
Fonterra Cooperative Group will not go outside its farmer shareholder base to look for new capital to fund the cooperative’s growth, and will depend only on retained earnings and new entrants to the dairy industry to pay its portion of future ventures.
As the bonds were issued to cover existing/ongoing expenses and to enable the recycling of Fonterra’s mountains of debt, I guess they are technically keeping their word to their shareholders. Shareholders who are, for a while longer anyway, the farmers that trusted them to grow so big so quickly.
It’s not a business it’s a co-op of old boys milking a model well past it’s use by date being cheered on by a reckless gov’t that can’t be arsed diversifying or future proofing.
Sounds familiar across many industries really in this country such as the utilities sector.
NO mention at all of the reduction of the trained qualified quotas introduced by the NATS about 5 years? ago.
Another example of poor governance by the Nats
From memory, more and more time at Playcentre was being spent to ensure that the Ministry was confident that the facility was meeting the guidance of Te Whaariki. This was part of the internal and ongoing audit of the local group, and it did take quite a lot of time away from the interaction with children.
I’m sure that this requirement is even higher in non-participatory ECE’s, especially under National’s version of “accountability.”
I suppose one has to laugh. Everything in the article reveals a syndrome I was squealing about yesterday: The people at the Herald are propagandists, and not very smart thinkers or competent writers. Apparently, early home-life is a big factor in learning, so it becomes the teacher’s fault, not child poverty, zero-hour contracts for their parents, less than living wage, oh fuck, must go on? No one who reads that Editorial drivel, and nods like a grazing cow at it, is listening. Early education (read, indoctrination) makes it easier to educate (read, control) kids later. Wow, that’s ground breaking stuff, Herald Editor, really groundbreaking… for 1950. Fuckin’ dimwits should read up on what the Soviets and other similar outfits discovered about that sort of thing. Fuck they’re dumb. Dumb as fuck. Blinkered. Willfully ignorant. Myopic tautologies.
“Fortunately, the Ministry of Education seems to have taken on board the alarming picture painted by the ERO report. It says early childhood providers will be reminded of the “need to actively promote positive learning outcomes for infants and toddlers” and practical guidance will be provided for them to do this”
Oh, good grief, that’ll be the day! This government has systematically undermined the ece sector from the moment they walked through the door because, yet again $$$$$ – more and more centres are privately owned, some chains are now big business and yes, of course,m Australia has its foot in the door too. As an early childhood lecturer/teacher/ training provider I have walked through the doors of a number of centres I wouldn’t put the hotel cat in!
And no, Charles, ece teachers who know what they’re doing do NOT ‘indoctrinate’ children – download a copy of their ‘Te Whariki’ curriculum and you might be quite surprised. Of course all sorts can happen in the poorer quality centres because this government reversed the requirement to have only qualified teachers in centres – so much cheaper, you know, and better for the profit margins. Besides which, the quality of some teacher training centres need a long hard look – there are some who have the reputation of taking anyone with “a pair of legs and a cheque book”
Not sure if someone has hacked tdb site, but my comment is not showing up. Hacked?
I wonder who would do that?
[lprent: It pays to read the site policies on comments. Here is ours.
All comments at TDB have to be released by a moderator, so it depends when a moderator has time to go through them. It used to be that quite a few never make it out for no obviously legitimate reason. It appears to gotten a lot better since they adopted a clearer moderation operational policy and less personality driven moderation. I have no idea what it is like right now.
We have a different operational policy.
First comments by a handle/’email’ combination have to be approved by a moderator. If they don’t add anything to the debate or violate policy, then they are silently trashed. The standard used for first comments is higher than the toleration for established commenters as it is the most effective way to exclude people who aren’t of a standard to comment here. In other words we exclude idiot trolls. For instance, like the fool who managed to put in 16 first comments all of which were pure attacks on various people without managing to express any opinions or ideas themselves.
Once you get a first comment through moderation, then you can comment without delay, and generally we rely on the commenters to moderate themselves.
If commenters don’t manage to moderate themselves within our policy, then we will try warn or give small bans initially to demonstrate the edges (unless they do something to damage the site operations). However recidivism results in exponential increases in ban lengths. That is because we don’t want to spend large amounts of time moderating, people either moderate themselves or we reduce the numbers of times we have to moderate them.
We think that this approach allows for fast robust debate that isn’t usually too boring. But different sites have different priorities and policies. ]
Nah dude. That’s just normal lag for tdb. Everything goes through the “Scarlet Filter” over there. Don’t be surprised it it turns up later edited or modified, or not at all. It’s the way they like it.
Looked to me like the latest commenting issue arose there at TDB after the post re the Listener’s friendly article on GCSB & SIS. I am tending to keep an open mind about how low our authorities will stoop to these days.
Yes I find it suspicious. While they moderate it shows up waiting to go live. For some reason the comments are not doing this at all. It looks like either a hack or computer glitch.
The one about Colin Craig, still has no comments – I find this strange.
Step 1. National Govt overrides local govt GE free zones.
Just like when Maui County voted on a moratorium to their islands continual use as a GE laboratory, and the presiding judge refused and passed it over to the jurisdiction of the state.
A federal judge ruled Tuesday that a Maui County ban on the cultivation of genetically engineered crops is pre-empted by federal and state law and invalid.
Glyphosate (roundup sales), along with GMO are being banned around the world but not in The Land of The Long (Term) White Scam
Why, Psycho Milt? Why remove the juristiction regional councils presently hold, as ruled by the Environment Court judge recently in the case where Federated Farmers did as you are doing and claimed that the Government, through the MPI, should make that decision, thereby dismissing the judgement by the EC judge. What makes you say that central government should over-ride local government on this issue?
Suppose a local council wanted to declare itself a pro-GE zone, where experimentation and commercial use of engineered plants was welcomed and enouraged. It couldn’t, because central government legislation overrides local government on this issue. I expect you’re comfortable with that. I am too, because the issue of whether GE is permitted or not, and under what circumstances, is essentially a national one (councils not being in a position to order wind and weather not to distribute plants across council boundaries).
That still applies if/when the government changes its legislation to allow full exploitation of GE. The issue is a national one, and local councils have no business banning productive enterprises from their jurisdictions.
Suppose a community wanted to retain their GE-free status through the mechanism of their elected councillors.
It seems that you argument is, like that of Amy Adams, that the decision to be GE-free or “pro-GE” is a national one, because GMO’s will spread, regardless of the wishes of the peoples of any particular region.
If in fact, a region wanted to release GMO that would trespass a neighbouring region, they’d need to discuss this outcome with that affected region and arrange some compensation/mitigation or whatever, rather than claiming that their own rights would be curtailed by the region wanting to remain GE-free. Discussions between regions and deals brokered that way seems the democratic solution, rather than your proposed dictatorial broad-scale declaration by the central government. What about the will of local people in regards the land on which they depend?
We are GE-free now. A change to the staus quo should only be made in the light that compensation should be provided to those who will lose their presently-held conditions as a result of a new activity.
Believe it or not, local councils aren’t city states or independent fiefdoms. They don’t have sovereignty, and aren’t in a position to forge treaties or diplomatic relations with neighbouring councils. Maybe they’d like to be, but it would be a completely insane government that let them.
As to compensation, that’s like declaring a Muslim-free zone and demanding the government pay you compensation for allowing Muslims free movement within NZ. Onus is on you to demonstrate harm.
Neighbouring councils don’t meet and discuss issues such as any effects they might have on each other – go on!
You say the “onus is on you to demonstrate harm” – fine, let the various councils do just that, as those who have chosen the precautionary model have done. There are no GMO in our forests and fields yet, let those who propose their introduction prove their safety. Dictatorially removing the decisions from councils with a stroke of the MPI pen is not democracy, it has anothert name. The Environment Court judge judged that councils can do what you suggest. National is saying, nah. Why? ‘Cause.
I don’t think you understand what “the onus is on you to demonstrate harm” means – it’s the opposite of the precautionary principle.
The “precautionary principle” is a crock of shit. It says “You can’t allow Muslim immigrants into my Muslim-free zone until you can prove no harm can ensue” and imagines that’s a clever way of doing things. The first people to domesticate animals or modify crops through experimentation could never have proved what they were doing was safe, any more than the people who are modifying things a bit faster these days can.
As to our forests and fields being free of human-modified organisms, they are in fact crawling with them, from the cows on down to the grasses and crops. If local councils have a beef with some particular means of modifying organisms, it’s really none of their business
Don’t be dumb, Muslims have been around for over a millennia and have been well tested in many different political and social environments, whereas GMO technology is brand new, monbey driven, and could conceivably destroy large parts of the ecosystem in ways we do not yet understand.
BTW you seem to equate selective breeding of cattle and grass as being equivalent to GMO technology which is pretty stupid, as it isn’t.
(Oops – posted this at the end of the general thread)
The precautionary principle is not a crock of shit, though your claiming it is reveals an intolerant position from you. Where the likelihood of something occurring cannot be 100% determined but the potential harm that could come from it is significant, the precautionary principle is a very valuable safeguard against disaster. I’m ignoring your “Muslim” analogy, as it is charged with its own issues – if you want to talk GMO, let’s use GMO as the example. Your equating of “domestication” with genetic engineering though, is a crock, to use your phraseology. You know as well as I, that there is a profound difference between conventional plant and animal breeding and the insertion of genetic material using modern genetic engineering methods. Your attempt to blend the two techniques is lame. The rest of your 6:39 comment has too little value for me to comment on.
Where the likelihood of something occurring can’t be 100% determined, but the potential harm that could come from it is significant, you regulate the practitioners and put some safeguards and minimum standards in place. The precautionary principle, on the other hand, is a straightforward recipe for nobody doing anything, ever, because no-one can guarantee any particular activity is safe. It’s childish, moronic even.
And you ought to know, as well as I do, that GE is different from earlier methods of modifying plants and animals for human use mainly in that it’s a lot faster and more effective. The scare-mongering that prompts councils to declare ridiculous “GE-free” zones comes down to the long-standing tradition of people fearing what they don’t understand.
BTW you seem to equate selective breeding of cattle and grass as being equivalent to GMO technology which is pretty stupid, as it isn’t.
Yeah, that would be pretty stupid. They aren’t remotely equivalent – compared to GE, selective breeding is a clumsy process significantly dependent on luck.
Suppose a local council wanted to declare itself a pro-GE zone, where experimentation and commercial use of engineered plants was welcomed and enouraged.
Then the EPA would say this was a silly idea and should not happen. National’s proposal is that the EPA sets the maximum amount of protection, not a minimum standard.
Protection from what, in this case? Also, the fact that councils are and should remain subordinate to legislation, not superior to it, is exactly my point.
” the fact that councils are and should remain subordinate to legislation, not superior to it, is exactly my point.”
Councils presently are acting withing the legislation and do have jurisdiction over this issue, as ruled by the Environment Court judge recently – exactly my point.
You are arguing for a change to that status quo, a change the Government threatens to make unilaterally.
So, no.
And further more…
” The scare-mongering that prompts councils to declare ridiculous “GE-free” zones comes down to the long-standing tradition of people fearing what they don’t understand.”
When the people of any given community express their views through their elected representatives, it’s called democracy.
Asking that a “zone” be put in place that is designated to be “free” of whatever, given that it doesn’t contravene any laws or existing rights, is surely, yes, that old chestnut, democracy.
In any case, why should a particular industry, in this case plantation forestry working through the Ministry for Primary Industries, cause a region to (permanantly) lose it’s GE-free status? And another thing, why is MPI re-writing environmental standards? What happened to the Ministry for the Environment???
Clean up GMO from the environment, JanM?
That’d take more than a puff of whatever.
In any case, a region’s GE-free status can’t be reinstated, can it. Once revoked, never regained. Such status is worth a great deal of money to those producing for global markets.
Who’s going to compensate them?
GE-free is the existing status and land use. Incoming technologies need to prove themselves and subject themselves to the decisions of those who will be affected negatively by them. Ruling them in without discussion with affected communities is dictatorial, not democratic, not collaborative, not fair.
How could Fonterra NOT know they were heading for a huge meltdown.
China stockpiling for years.
European internal milk quotas lapsed last April. ( known about for years ).
English dairy farmers produced 1.8 million more tonnes in the each of last few years.
British dairy farmers commuting to huge dirt-cheap dairy farms they developed in Poland in recent years.
Russia banning European dairy imports after Ukraine. ( had to go somewhere ).
Fonterra KNEW and therefore English and Key knew.
I remember once when Rachel Smalley was fronting something on TV3 and the price of petrol had just gone up. Her comment was that it would cost her more to fill up the Maserati. I haven’t had any time for her since. Snob.
If she really cared about male domination she would not be working at her current radio station and towing the party line where men’s opinions rule, the establishment rules and climate change doesn’t exist. It’s called selling your soul.
And thats only Europe. US, Canada, Brasil , Argentina and Mexico ( in the desert for Christsake ) and most of Asia from Turkmenistan to China all upping production hugely.
The spruiking of the White Goldmine is criminal.
we’ve worked ourselves into a ridiculous frenzy over it…wanting snappy one liner answers to complex issues…
But Mike, that’s your entire modus operandi.
Without snappy one liner answers to complex issues what do you present every night, apart from ever-more complex lapel adjustments and security for investors of hair product futures?
No there won’t. Agriculture is something that every nation can, and will, do meaning that relying on it to develop our economy is outright stupid. Admittedly, that does seem to describe a lot of National supporters, RWNJs and farmers accurately.
Have you even considered the massive increase in debt (from the boardroom to the farmgate to suppliers to regional/local councils) that has exploded across the entire industry since the $3.85 price was last seen a decade ago? What impact do you foresee if the price does not return to $6 a kilo within the next 24 months? Markets might well be cyclical but the debt margins those markets operate under are never operating in a smoothly co-joined manner. The debt markets will not simply say – ‘oh you’re having a tough time, don’t worry about the7% interest your bonds issue promised’ They are more likely to say-‘how about you just give us Units in your Shareholders Fund instead’
That is separate of course to the very real risk of the banks turning down the screws in 2017 and claiming back what they are owed.
Fonterra might well be able to juggle on a pogo stick whilst swallowing the lumpy bits, most NZ farms are not in such an enviable position.
no perspective at all…it ignores the change in farming systems and the inflationary impact on inputs…talk to any dairy farmer and ask whats happened to inputs over the past 15 years, what was viable in 2002 is not viable in 2015 and beyond….and all of this ignores the short term impact of land value reduction and equity ratios…if you want an indicator of what is likely to occur think back to the removal of SMPs and then consider the recovery from that took 15 plus years and was only turned around by ….yes ,the dairy boom..a once in a lifetime perfect storm caused by Chinese industrialisation and urbanisation.
The issue isn’t particularly the payout, it is the average rising cost involved in running herds.
Back in 1998-2006, almost every dairy farm was making a profit with price levels that were less than $4/kg milk solids. Since then the area covered by dairy farms has nearly doubled, and the herd levels on existing farms has at least doubled. The way this was done was effectively by throwing capital at it, largely through debt. That allowed the conversion of other farm types to dairy, the addition of feedpads, extensive feeding, and mucg more intensive dairy farming.
Between the repayment of financing costs and the changes in operational costs, the average required payout to even break-even is well over $5/kg and probably closer to $6/kg.
Now that the world prices have reverted back towards normal, ie about $4/kg, the cost structure of our current dairy industry will have to adjust. Herd sizes will drop. Many recently converted farms will revert. Something like about 20-30% of current sharemilkers will wind up walking away voluntarily or involuntarily as they cannot make a profit. A significiant number of farm owners will be bankrupted.
This was all quite obvious five years ago and an imminent economic crisis in 2012. However National kept pouring resources and support into this single economic sector. They really are naturally stupid (or greedy bearing mind the number of National MPs with stakes in dairy) is the only way of looking at it.
Your “perspective” is daft because it assumes that industry in 2002 is the same as it is in 2015. You have to admire the timeless view of the conservative, but unfortunately the rest of us tend to live in the reality, not fantasyland.
“They really are naturally stupid (or greedy bearing mind the number of National MPs with stakes in dairy) is the only way of looking at it.”
Or, it’s speculation with the idea that the risk doesn’t matter because when the farms go bankrupt we have overseas buyers waiting in the wings. Or all 3.
Lynn do you remember the forces farm sales in the 80s? What was behind that? I seem to remember spiking interest rates on mortgages, but am curious if there was also a broader context like you have described above.
The nett effect economically for exports was bugger all, but arguably I think that it allowed National to win the 1978 and 1981 elections from rural electorates.
In 1977 I spent most of the year before university working on a number of farms deciding if it was worth heading off to farm. What convinced me that it was a waste of time was most of the farms were effectively uneconomic, but survived because of the subsidies and capital gains driven by those subsidies.
By 1981/2 the subsidies were “…30% of the total output from farming.“. They were at least as much a contributor to the enormous deficits in 1984/5 as think big was.
Essentially what those subsidies wound up doing was to defer the required changes in agricultural production by nearly a decade. Of course a lot of National MPs were sheep farmers 🙂
When the subsidies were removed, then there was a wholesale restructure in the farming sector within a very short timeframe, drops in farm incomes, and for a while sharp drops in farmland values, with the consequent social dislocations. Lyn’s family for instance in Southland sold up and moved to Invercargill.
The high interest rates were more of a side effect of having a very high inflation rate, largely caused by government overspending on things like SMP and their consequent expansion of the money supply. Pretty typical of National. They tend to live in a past fantasyland for as long as possible while shoveling debt on to kids.
Interesting, thanks. So a few similarities with what is happening now. It was one of the keys to my politicaly awakening, seeing what then were actually traditional family farmers losing their land to the bank (one side of my famliy are farmers). A real eye opener.
+1 – if someone loses their farm it is a terrible thing, equivalent to someone losing their job and home. I think there should be a bit more sympathy.
Nobody seems to post about how stupid and greedy other industries are, such as machinists are when they lose their job as everyone starts shopping for cheaper clothes made with cheap labour or if the timber mill or meat works close down.
The comments also reveal how neoliberalism is so ingrained in the Kiwi way of looking at things. Hello farming is not about profit and loss, for a farmer it is a way of life. For overseas investors could be a range of reasons for the investment, land banking and immigration, tax losses. The Chinese have a lot of people to feed for example.
Milk also reflects the changing culture of families. Instead of a parent staying at home and breastfeeding, woman bottle feed formula and go back to work. The amount of breastfeeding in NZ is only about 17% of woman breast feeding for 6 months.
Remember the ‘attack politics’ about Breast Nazis – the opposite is true, breastfeeding is very low in this country at only about 17% of woman making it to 6 months.
Two thirds of NZ Agriculture debt is acknowledged as Dairy debt. That is appoximately 40 billion dollars relying on a quick rebound in prices. That 40 billion affects more than the farm holding the debt. The towns the farm buys off, the services the farm supports. The towns that support the people that support the farms. These things are not isolated from each other and you know that. http://www.interest.co.nz/charts/credit/agriculture-credit
Take the basic cost of living in the two different periods where a $3.85 payout occured and common sense shows how the present price is far worse for the wider economy than the same price was a decade ago.
There are other costs of course, and all the good intentions of those expressing their ‘confidence in the sector’ seem strangely silent when confronted with the distance between ideal solutions and on the farm reality
mental health initiatives and extra government funding were great but finding and keeping doctors in remote locations was a major challenge.
He believed doctors’ appointments via teleconferencing could be one solution but said the Government needed to improve internet connections in rural communities first.
“Telehealth is something that works in other parts of the world and it can be a specialist sitting in the Auckland Hospital talking to somebody in Balclutha about their particular issue, but in New Zealand, many of the parts of the country where this would be really useful, they don’t have the broadband to handle that capacity,”
I’m concerned for dairy farmers. The payout is exceptionally low, financial pressures are huge. The media is saying 40-percent of farmers will run at a loss. I would suggest it’s double that,” Mr Hunt said.
“My consultant has only one of his clients that does not need the bank this year, and when you take an event like we’ve seen over the weekend (the lower North Island floods), to add to pressures, it’s not one thing that knocks over someone who’s vulnerable, it’s a series of things.”
I might personally wish the Government showed as much concern for all its citizens as it does for farmers, but if they need the help, then they should get ithttp://farmstrong.co.nz/
No, the unit price per se does not provide a perspective without taking the total volume into account.
If you have time, and are genuinely interested in this, then have a look at this speech delivered to DairyNZ in Hamilton on 7 May 2014 by Graeme Wheeler, Governor RBNZ The significance of dairy to the New Zealand economy. The Conclusion at the end is particularly interesting and it was written only just over a year ago.
The first team medical staff at FC Barcelona has announced on Sunday that Neymar will be out for two weeks after being diagnosed with parotitis (mumps), despite the fact that he had previously been vaccinated against the disease.
Waiting for the worlds media to be all over this just as they were with the ‘Disney’ outbreak.
CDC ADVISORY
Two doses of mumps vaccine are 88% (range 66% to 95%) effective at preventing the disease; one dose is 78% range (49% to 91%) effective. The first vaccine against mumps was licensed in the United States in 1967, and by 2005, high two-dose childhood vaccination coverage reduced disease rates by 99%.
Like any vaccine it’s not 100% effective. Only 99%. He is the 1%. Not having a vaccine is effective 0% of the time in protecting people.
Like any vaccine it’s not 100% effective. Only 99%. He is the 1%. Not having a vaccine is effective 0% of the time in protecting people.
Your stats say differently.
BTW I don’t know about you, but I have an immune system, and once it has reacted to mumps, it provides 100% life long effective and superior protection, unlike your “vaccinations”.
Anti-vaccination nutjobs might disagree.
You religious/zealot types should really ease off on your swallowing of doctrine.
Of course, that “reaction” can include swollen nuts, fever, acute abdominale pain and vomiting, encephalitis, and passing it on to someone else who has a worse reaction than your own, such as permanently decreased fertility or death.
But yeah, 88% efficacy puts him in the 12%, not 1%. I wonder if the person he caught it from was vaccinated? The odds are against it.
and that 88% number appears to dive over time. Again, an example which suggests that vaccinations push the body’s immune system in very different ways to natural exposure, provides much less protection and creates physiological results that are far different. And science cannot explain why.
And if we go with all of that bullshit, the fact remains that the science can explain how much safer the vaccine is than “natural exposure”. Your preference is akin to “we had to seriously increase the chances of destroying the village in order to save it”.
Take the expected incidence in a non-vaccinated population, apply the efficacy rate and the averse reaction rate, subtract one from the other, and Bob’s your uncle.
CV you are the kind of idiot that would recommend all people should be subjected to the infectious disease rather than be vaccinated, thank goodness you’ll never be in a position to make that decision for anyone else apart from yourself.
“Again, an example which suggests that vaccinations push the body’s immune system in very different ways to natural exposure, provides much less protection and creates physiological results that are far different.”
“And please, don’t put words in my mouth as to what I would and wouldn’t advocate.”
You have repeatedly posted on this blog anti-vaccination messages which have relied on information that is a best dubious, I would seriously doubt that [mod edit – an unspecified ‘they’] would approve of such statements by one of their members.
[You’re gone and hit moderation until you grow up and undertake to desist from making comments that – 1. point to a persons real identity and -2. quit with the veiled threats.
Now to clean up the shit you’ve smeared in comments above. Not. fucking. impressed.] – Bill
The less charitable side of me thinks that failure in one is responsible for much of the moaning about the quanitified and well-known lack in perfection of the other. 👿
lol no, you didn’t pick up the sarcasm in my comment, then.
If you can point to a more demonstrably effective prophylactic against mumps than vaccination (with nothing short of 100% effectiveness in your alternative and a global lack of nutjobs saying it causes autism), feel free to share it with the world.
Can’t directly link to molly and weepus beard on my mobile. No not standards in ece but lots of bureaucratic paper work. We have to write loads of learning stories and take lots of photos to prove we are doing our job. Of course this takes time away from the children and this means less conversation with them which is how language develops. I also think all the photos may help them to accept a surveillance state as they grow older.
If I may say so, Fairy Godmother, if you think that photos and learning stories are only used to ‘prove we are doing our job’ then I think you need to go on a few courses and do a bit of research. Children’s portfolios, properly used are a very valuable learning tool for them and a source of constant delight.
Oh, dear me!
“Children’s portfolios, properly used are a very valuable learning tool for them and a source of constant delight.
Oh, dear me!”
Depends on the child, and depends on the environment.
Many home educators do this for a period of time so that a form of record is available for ERO (and some for personal satisfaction) but it usually falls to the wayside, and that energy and time is spent getting on with learning.
This is not true of all home educators – mind you – just a comment on the difference of making paperwork a necessity rather than an option.
Dealing with MoE you often don’t get to prioritise providing learning experiences over paperwork.
Environment can be powerful. For example, I know one family who is able to provide their children with guided bush walks, multi-day tramping excursions, bike trailing, interaction with computer and industry experts, experience of flying in small aircraft and regular interaction with overseas visitors from a variety of occupations. And this was all from a very young age.
Their learning experience was rich and varied, and in no way would be enhanced by recording it.
Other children, requiring routine and less disruption to their habits in order to progress and achieve, need a stable environment. The interaction with those teaching them needs to be sincere. Once again, not necessarily enhanced by constant measuring and recording.
Keeping records is an option, and can be a valuable teaching aid – but it is not a necessary requirement. But we are in agreement about the value of the teaching relationship.
The author argues that “neoliberalism” as Thatcher-Reagan capitalism with small-state free-market capitalism is a sham, a public face used for PR and the reality is much cruder state cronyism – good old “socialise the costs, privatise the gains.”
neoliberalism … has been something like the relationship of the Ten Commandments to life in an Italian peasant village: a good idea but nobody obeys.
…
In 20+ years as a business journalist I’ve seen the proof of this so many times that I have lost count. In private the elite will come out with all the most destructive, vindictive and selfish aspects of the ideology. In public it’s a different discourse. The entire public relations industry at high level is dedicated to reinforcing both activities: the public propagation of the acceptable version, and the creation of private spaces where the esoteric truth can be spoken, and crucial differences of emphasis or strategy debated.
No surprises of course, but nice to see see it mapped out coherently and concisely. The author notes that the system is under continual evolution.
In essence, these thugs don’t want a small state, they want the state to be an extraction industry and to do so, it must remain large and powerful. In such a context, it’s no surprise that those who profess “libertarian” principles always default to the most authoritarian stances when “order” is challenged.
For example, when Hoots, who professes admiration of Thatcher’s public ideology of freedom privately tries to organise with his friend Cactus Kate the murder of Nicky Hager.
A former member of the Conservative Party is promising to reveal evidence of what he calls serious offences by Colin Craig.
John Stringer has announced he’s holding a press conference in Christchurch this afternoon.
He’s promising to provide documents, emails, letters, and photos, along with people who are prepared to testify in court about the so-called offences.
There’s no word yet on what those serious offences are.
Mr Craig has previously faced accusations of behaving inappropriately towards a former staffer.
*I’m off to get a bucket of popcorn for this one.
I wonder if CC will have to issue another booklet, or perhaps “Mr X” will do a 30 second television spot.
[lprent: Quote material so that it doesn’t look like your words. I have done it for you using the blockquote tags. You can do it simply using quotation marks. But don’t let me see you plagiarizing again. It violates copyrights beyond fair use and even short news pieces make you fraudulently look more intelligent. Which says something about your very low standard. ]
Yeah, it has that confused bullshit based on rabid divorced from facts (10% fact and 90% lying) signature that we have all come to know and detest. The real question is who paid for it this time?
Couldn’t have happened to a more confused bunch: The Confusitive Party.
First their ex-leader forgets the bit about covetting thy former staffer, then misrepresents “Thou shall not bear false witness” as a concept to direct at others but never yourself, then by-passes “Do not oppose evil… turn the other cheek…” to publish and distribute a pamphlet on the evil of Stringer, Slater et. al. , and all within what appears to be an environment where all of them are terrified that anyone anywhere will accuse them of being less than perfect in the tiniest way, thus losing the “esteem” of their “peers”.
It’s a good thing “god is dead” because otherwise he wouldn’t be very pleased.
So hes going to offer proof as opposed to CCs allegations
Mind you you theres also this:
On Wednesday 29th July at 2.30pm Colin Craig held a press conference and released a defamatory 12-page magazine called “Dirty Politics,” announcing he would be suing three men: John Stringer ($600,000); Cameron Slater ($650,000); Jordan Williams ($300,000).
He said on Thursday 30th June on various radio and TV shows, that he would file legal papers “within 48 hours.”
Peters: Fed Farmers too cosy with govt to help farmers
“……
MICHAEL What about TPP? Let’s look at TPP. How crucial is that for dairy farmers? Hold on.
WINSTON Well, I can explain this to you. No, no, we’re going to have a fair amount of debate here.
MICHAEL We will. Dr Rolleston, TPP – is that something that your members see as essential to growing dairy, to getting access to more markets, to really digging your way out of this hole?
WILLIAM Yes, but it needs to be a good-quality agreement, and, you know, I think when we’ve looked back at the free trade deals that we’ve done around the world, we have a pretty good set of negotiators and we’ve driven a pretty hard bargain. So I see that TPP is a huge opportunity for us, but it does need to be a good-quality deal.
WINSTON Look, there’s a classic statement of someone who’s meant to represent the farming community. We went into Korea, and they secured a tariff against us at 176% permanently against our products above 2000 tons. If he thinks that’s a high-quality deal, then I’m afraid we’re talking to the wrong industry here. But we’re not in there – that’s the point. They went into Korea and did that. It was a shocking deal. And now that we’re prepared to trade our future way, our export and farming future way in a so-called free trade deal. Now, the reality is that for other reasons, it failed. But they are prepared to go down that track all the way, even when we’re in the middle of a crisis. And sir, I’m not panicking. The reality is it is absurd when we don’t actually do something, and the range of those things could have been done a long time ago.
MICHAEL What about Russia? That’s obviously something you think that Fonterra dairy farmers can make greater gains into Russia. Andrew Little doesn’t like that; why do you?
WINSTON Well, because it’s the world’s second biggest dairy importer. No, we haven’t got sanctions against them at all.
“They are not jay-walkers,” he said. “Some are facing 10 or 15 years. But they’re not lying,” he said.
Yeah right but seriously hes going about this the wrong, voters don’t care about prisoners so if he wants traction on this he needs to stop with the prisoners and instead focus on the guards safety and/or costs over runs
“We have had a few negative comments, with people saying she’s not like Che Guevara, but it’s just a bit of fun and that image means lots of different things to different people. It must be strange for Nicola Sturgeon to see all this stuff on the internet, but it just shows how popular she is and it’s fantastic for little businesses like mine.”
The precautionary principle is not a crock of shit, though your claiming it is reveals an intolerant position from you. Where the likelihood of something occurring cannot be 100% determined but the potential harm that could come from it is significant, the precautionary principle is a very valuable safeguard against disaster. I’m ignoring your “Muslim” analogy, as it is charged with its own issues – if you want to talk GMO, let’s use GMO as the example. Your equating of “domestication” with genetic engineering though, is a crock, to use your phraseology. You know as well as I, that there is a profound difference between conventional plant and animal breeding and the insertion of genetic material using modern genetic engineering methods. Your attempt to blend the two techniques is lame. The rest of your 6:39 comment has too little value for me to comment on.
I totally agree, Robert. Plus tests regarding safety of GM crops should be designed and carried out by scientists who are totally independent of the corporations producing these crops. I don’t trust the data that is put out by these corporations. Precaution is paramount.
Have a read of this,article about GM soya bean crops planted in Argentina and the results as seen FIRST HAND by an Aljazeera journalist, Glenn Ellis. A short excerpt:
“Then we met Nadia Perez, a delightful little girl with a winning smile, who is confined to a wheel chair. She suffers from adversely evolving encephalopathy. Sadly her condition is progressive. Viviana, her mother is desperate. “There’s no treatment, but the doctor says, ‘Don’t give up hope.’ Maybe they’ll develop a new treatment, if not in Argentina, then abroad. I don’t care if it’s abroad, I just want a treatment: A treatment, a drug, anything.”
We were to meet many such children before returning to the doctor’s surgery that evening. Here she showed me a computer chart containing two steeply climbing graphs. One represented the increase in soya plantations over the last 15 years while the other illustrated the rise in the number of birth malformations across the province during the same time. It was startling; virtually a mirror image. “I have practiced medicine here for 30 years,” she told me, “20 years ago we never saw malformations.”
Doctor Seveso’s assertion that glyphosate based pesticide was responsible for what she referred to as ‘an epidemic of birth malformations’ is supported by Argentina’s leading embryologist, Professor Andres Carrasco, who runs the Molecular Embryology Laboratory at the University of Buenos Aires. Carrasco observed a link between glyphosate and malformations under laboratory conditions some two years ago.”
Have you considered the possibility that pesticide being bad for people isn’t relevant to the question of whether genetic engineering is bad for people? Also, that no-one’s suggesting growing GE soy here (except maybe some nutcase vegans), but our forestry industry could benefit greatly from GE if hippies and religion enthusiasts would stop with the scare-mongering?
I realise that there are several issues involved, PM.
Pesticide, GM in food and GM in non foods and in animal feed are separate issues.
The problems of the spread of pollen by wind and insects makes containment difficult. There are also issues involved with whether food containing GM should be labelled. Other countries are considering these issues and the effects on the reputation of their existing crops should they open up to GMOs.
Here is the anti GMO
Sorry, Monsanto: Scotland to Officially Ban the Growing of GMO Crops – See more at: http://althealthworks.com/7321/scotland-offiicially-bans-gmos-vows-to-protect-countrys-beautiful-natural-environment/#sthash.eFOsl5Ca.dpuf
There needs to be a lot of discussion needed and the last thing that we need is to have the likes of Monsanto being allowed to ride roughshod over NZ by a govt that is only interested in quick money with no regard to the long term consequences.
…but our forestry industry could benefit greatly from GE if hippies and religion enthusiasts would stop with the scare-mongering?
New Zealand’s forestry issue isn’t not being able to grow trees fast enough, we’ve got some of the fastest growing pine trees in the world. So we already have competitive advantage there. Our issue is having a market to sell the wood to and being able to add dollar value onto the product before it leaves the country. Closed timber mills and factories that create finished products are the more obvious issue.
@Tautoko Manga Mata
Thanks for valuable background on Argentina. Frightening. Will our government follow. Well its war I think, and the leaders always stay behind the lines and well back as they are too important to lose.
In the meantime our bees have another disease that has caused them to clear out of their hives an only the queen and the new uninfected baby bees hatch and struggle on. The feeling is that it their systems are weakened by a combined assault of things probably including GM.
I just flicked onto the post Robert and you are being impassioned to somebody but I don’t have a clue as to whom. You have not clicked on a reply button and I can’t be faffed to look all through the above comments.
Sorry, Greyshark, I’ve been busy outside amongst my GE-free trees. I was debating further back in the thread and mis-placed that comment out of context. The suggestion that GE-crops, be they trees, soya bean, maize or whatever, go hand-in-hand with increased pesticide use is significant. The Herbicide-tolerant swedes that last year killed hundreds of dairy cows in Southland, while arguably not GMO , created the opportunity for farmers to use Telar, where before they couldn’t, right across the region. Telar is powerful and long-lasting and, get this, its active ingredient is BANNED from use in parts of China! China, where caution around pesticides,herbicides, fungicides, nematicides, molluscasides etc, etc is hardly a feature. Southland lowered its standards dramatically there, resulting in those deaths and disfigurements. This is the territory we are venturing into with GMO and their associated cultures, in my view.
Robert G
You are very civil. I should know better than to complain now iI remember it means usually that some comment has removed which munts the system. What controls do concerned citizens have over these neanderthals that want to use this killer stuff? Put a curse on them and all their kind? Physically stop them? Get run over with them let off on an excuse? Have to march and get bashed over the head by perlice batons? All of the above? And that presumes that the governing bodies are not ready to subject themselves to thought, statistics and scenarios that are already on the scene – bees, cows dying.
(And I believe that neanderthals were cleverer than we have given them credit for. Better than the present day people willing to damage the environment because it isn’t allowed to ponder and be doubtful in their business and social circles. Thinking positively, acting energetically, can change flawed product into gold – magical thinking.)
Those old Griims fairy tales – they are really analogies. Today’s Rumplestiltskins will steal away our future hopefully healthy babies so that straw can be turned into gold.
‘All this must be spun into gold before morning, as you love your life.’ http://www.mordent.com/folktales/grimms/rumplestiltskin/
Greywarshark – I’m with you in giving the Neanderthals credit where it’s rarely given. Whoever we were when we co-existed here for the 3 000 000 years before agriculture reared its head, we did well not to destroy the place. !0 000 years since the grain silos went up, everything else went down, including our capacity to make good decisions.
Talk of magic and fairy tales – now you’re gonna attract a swarm of Homo Agriculturalis (more a file than a swarm – bees swarm, Modern Man prefers the straight-edge). And yes, the bees. The place is becoming too toxic for them. They’re outa here.
And did you know, there is a tradition of making “gold” cloth from straw. The Grimms knew a thing or two and there’s gold of other sorts in those tales too.
It’s not about the giant, Jack – it’s the beans!
You are inspiring me Robert. Now I remember the story of the boy with the golden goose which once you touched it you couldn’t let go and had to run along with the pair. Soon there were a whole file of National Party grunts and villagers and oh dear the boy called John is running straight towards the edge of a cliff. There is a signpost there, is it Melling Place, no it’s Lemming.
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This is a free articleCoverageThis morning, US President Joe Biden announced his withdrawal from the Presidential race. And that is genuinely newsworthy. Thanks for your service, President Biden, and all the best to you and yours.However, the media in New Zealand, particularly the 1News nightly bulletin, has been breathlessly covering ...
A homeless person’s camp beside a blocked-off slipped damage walkway in Freeman’s Bay: we are chasing our tail on our worsening and inter-related housing, poverty and climate crises. Photo: Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy ...
What has happened to it all?Crazy, some'd sayWhere is the life that I recognise?(Gone away)But I won't cry for yesterdayThere's an ordinary worldSomehow I have to findAnd as I try to make my wayTo the ordinary worldYesterday morning began as many others - what to write about today? I began ...
TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 7:00 am on Monday, July 22 are:Today’s Must Read: Father and son live in a tent, and have done for four years, in a million ...
TL;DR: As of 7:00 am on Monday, July 22, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:US President Joe Biden announced via X this morning he would not stand for a second term.Multinational professional services firm ...
A listing of 32 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, July 14, 2024 thru Sat, July 20, 2024. Story of the week As reflected by preponderance of coverage, our Story of the Week is Project 2025. Until now traveling ...
This weekend, a friend pointed out someone who said they’d like to read my posts, but didn’t want to pay. And my first reaction was sympathy.I’ve already told folks that if they can’t comfortably subscribe, and would like to read, I’d be happy to offer free subscriptions. I don’t want ...
National: The Party of ‘Law and Order’ IntroductionThis weekend, the Government formally kicked off one of their flagship policy programs: a military style boot camp that New Zealand has experimented with over the past 50 years. Cartoon credit: Guy BodyIt’s very popular with the National Party’s Law and Orderimage, ...
Day one of the solo leg of my long journey home begins with my favourite sound: footfalls in an empty street. 5.00 am and it’s already light and already too warm, almost.If I can make the train that leaves Budapest later this hour I could be in Belgrade by nightfall; ...
Do you remember Y2K, the threat that hung over humanity in the closing days of the twentieth century? Horror scenarios of planes falling from the sky, electronic payments failing and ATMs refusing to dispense cash. As for your VCR following instructions and recording your favourite show - forget about it.All ...
Climate Change Minister Simon Watts being questioned by The Kākā’s Bernard Hickey.TL;DR: My top six things to note around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the week to July 20 were:1. A strategy that fails Zero Carbon Act & Paris targetsThe National-ACT-NZ First Coalition Government finally unveiled ...
Summary:As New Zealand loses at least 12 leaders in the public service space of health, climate, and pharmaceuticals, this month alone, directly in response to the Government’s policies and budget choices, what lies ahead may be darker than it appears. Tui examines some of those departures and draws a long ...
The Minister of Housing’s ambition is to reduce markedly the ratio of house prices to household incomes. If his strategy works it would transform the housing market, dramatically changing the prospects of housing as an investment.Leaving aside the Minister’s metaphor of ‘flooding the market’ I do not see how the ...
As previously noted, my historical fantasy piece, set in the fifth-century Mediterranean, was accepted for a Pirate Horror anthology, only for the anthology to later fall through. But in a good bit of news, it turned out that the story could indeed be re-marketed as sword and sorcery. As of ...
An employee of tobacco company Philip Morris International demonstrates a heated tobacco device. Photo: Getty ImagesTL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy on Friday, July 19 are:At a time when the Coalition Government is cutting spending on health, infrastructure, education, housing ...
TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 8:30 am on Friday, July 19 are:Scoop: NZ First Minister Casey Costello orders 50% cut to excise tax on heated tobacco products. The minister has ...
Kia ora, it’s time for another Friday roundup, in which we pull together some of the links and stories that caught our eye this week. Feel free to add more in the comments! Our header image this week shows a foggy day in Auckland town, captured by Patrick Reynolds. ...
TL;DR : Here’s the top six items climate news for Aotearoa this week, as selected by Bernard Hickey and The Kākā’s climate correspondent Cathrine Dyer. A discussion recorded yesterday is in the video above and the audio of that sent onto the podcast feed.The Government released its draft Emissions Reduction ...
Save some money, get rich and old, bring it back to Tobacco Road.Bring that dynamite and a crane, blow it up, start all over again.Roll up. Roll up. Or tailor made, if you prefer...Whether you’re selling ciggies, digging for gold, catching dolphins in your nets, or encouraging folks to flutter ...
Waiting In The Wings:For truly, if Trump is America’s un-assassinated Caesar, then J.D. Vance is America’s Octavian, the Republic’s youthful undertaker – and its first Emperor.DONALD TRUMP’S SELECTION of James D. Vance as his running-mate bodes ill for the American republic. A fervent supporter of Viktor Orban, the “illiberal” prime ...
TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Friday, July 19, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:The PSAannounced the Employment Relations Authority (ERA) had ruled in the PSA’s favour in its case against the Ministry ...
Te Rangi e tu nei (The sky above us) Te Papa e takoto nei (The land beneath us) Tatou katoa te hunga ora (To us all the living) Tena koutou katoa (Greetings) ...
A late change to charter school legislation will cheat educators out of fair pay and negotiating power proving charter schools are just a vehicle to make profit out of our education system. ...
In 2004 te iwi Māori rallied against the Crown’s attempt to confiscate our coastlines and moana with the Foreshore and Seabed Act. This led to the largest hīkoi of a generation and the birth of Te Pāti Māori. 20 years later, history is repeating itself. Today the government has announced ...
It has been five and a half years since the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care was established to investigate the abuse of children, young people, and vulnerable adults within state and faith-based institutions. Yesterday, the final report - Whanaketia through pain and trauma, from darkness to light ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to take action off the back of the International Court of Justice ruling on Israel’s illegal occupation of Palestine. ...
On Friday the International Court of Justice reaffirmed what Palestinian’s have been telling us for decades: that the occupation and colonisation of Palestinian lands by Israel is illegal and must end immediately. They also called for reparations for Palestinian’s who have lived under Israeli occupation since it began in 1967. ...
Labour calls on the Government to act after the International Court of Justice (ICJ) ruled that Israel’s occupation of Palestinian Territories is illegal. ...
The 53.7 percent rise in benefit sanctions over the last year is more proof of this Government’s disdain for our communities most in need of support. ...
Aotearoa could be a country where every child grows up feeling safe, loved and with a sense of belonging in their whānau and community. But for some of our children, this is far from reality. Instead, they are trapped in a maze of intergenerational harm that they can’t escape on ...
Te Pāti Māori are calling for David Seymour to resign as Associate Health Minister in response to his call for Pharmac to ignore the Treaty of Waitangi. “This announcement is just another example of the government’s anti-Tiriti, anti-Māori agenda.” Said Co-leader and spokesperson for health, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer. “Seymour thinks it ...
The soaring price of renting is driving the rise of inflation in this country - with latest figures from Stats NZ showing rents are up 4.8 per cent on average while annual inflation is at 3.3 per cent. ...
National’s Emissions Reduction Plan will take New Zealand further from the economy we need to ensure the next generation has a stable climate and secure livelihoods. ...
Following consultation with named parties and thorough consideration of privacy interests, the Green Party is in a position to release the Executive Summary of the final report from the independent investigation into Darleen Tana. ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon should be asking serious questions of his Minister for Resources Shane Jones now it’s been revealed he misled the public about a dinner with mining companies that he didn’t declare and said wasn’t pre-arranged. ...
Te Pāti Māori have submitted to the Justice Select Committee against the Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill. The bill will further entrench racism in our justice system and fails to focus on rehabilitation. “Reinstating Three Strikes will empower a systematically racist system and exacerbate the overrepresentation of Māori in ...
The Transport and Infrastructure Committee is set to make a determination on the Residential Tenancies Amendment (RTA) Bill in the coming weeks. “This legislation will give landlords the power to kick our whānau out onto the street for no reason” said Housing spokesperson, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “Their solution to the housing ...
“National’s campaign was about tackling crime and the best they can do is a two-year long Ministerial Advisory Group,” Labour justice spokesperson Duncan Webb said. ...
“There are more examples of charter schools failing their students than there are success stories. The coalition Government is driving to dismantle our public school system and instead promote a privatised, competitive structure that puts profits before kids,” Jan Tinetti said. ...
“This government is choosing to deliberately mislead and withhold information, keeping our people in the dark about this government’s agenda and the future of our mokopuna,” said co-leader and spokesperson for Health, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer. The call comes after the demand from the Chief Ombudsman that Associate Minister of Health, Casey ...
“Today’s climate announcement by Simon Watts makes clear the National Government is simply paying lip service to meeting its climate change targets,” Megan Woods said. ...
National is choosing to make life harder for workers by taking away the rights our communities have fought hard for. Here's how they’re taking workers backwards. ...
Australia, Canada and New Zealand today issued the following statement on the need for an urgent ceasefire in Gaza and the risk of expanded conflict between Hizballah and Israel. The situation in Gaza is catastrophic. The human suffering is unacceptable. It cannot continue. We remain unequivocal in our condemnation of ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today reminded all State and faith-based institutions of their legal obligation to preserve records relevant to the safety and wellbeing of those in its care. “The Abuse in Care Inquiry’s report has found cases where records of the most vulnerable people in State and faith‑based institutions were ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says the Government’s online safety website for children and young people has reached one million page views. “It is great to see so many young people and their families accessing the site Keep It Real Online to learn how to stay safe online, and manage ...
Tēnā tātou katoa, Ngā mihi te rangi, ngā mihi te whenua, ngā mihi ki a koutou, kia ora mai koutou. Thank you for the opportunity to be here and the invitation to speak at this 50th anniversary conference. I acknowledge all those who have gone before us and paved the ...
New Zealand’s payroll providers have successfully prepared to ensure 3.5 million individuals will, from Wednesday next week, be able to keep more of what they earn each pay, says Finance Minister Nicola Willis and Revenue Minister Simon Watts. “The Government's tax policy changes are legally effective from Wednesday. Delivering this tax ...
An experimental vineyard which will help futureproof the wine sector has been opened in Blenheim by Associate Regional Development Minister Mark Patterson. The covered vineyard, based at the New Zealand Wine Centre – Te Pokapū Wāina o Aotearoa, enables controlled environmental conditions. “The research that will be produced at the Experimental ...
The Coalition Government has confirmed the indicative regional breakdown of North Island Weather Event (NIWE) funding for state highway recovery projects funded through Budget 2024, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Regions in the North Island suffered extensive and devastating damage from Cyclone Gabrielle and the 2023 Auckland Anniversary Floods, and ...
Indonesia’s Foreign Minister, Retno Marsudi, will visit New Zealand next week, Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced. “Indonesia is important to New Zealand’s security and economic interests and is our closest South East Asian neighbour,” says Mr Peters, who is currently in Laos to engage with South East Asian partners. ...
He aha te kai a te rangatira? He kōrero, he kōrero, he kōrero. The government has reaffirmed its commitment to supporting the aspirations of Ngāti Maniapoto, Minister for Māori Development Tama Potaka says. “My thanks to Te Nehenehenui Trust – Ngāti Maniapoto for bringing their important kōrero to a ministerial ...
Transport Minister Simeon Brown has thanked outgoing Chair of the Civil Aviation Authority, Janice Fredric, for her service to the board.“I have received Ms Fredric’s resignation from the role of Chair of the Civil Aviation Authority,” Mr Brown says.“On behalf of the Government, I want to thank Ms Fredric for ...
The Government is proposing legislation to overturn a Court of Appeal decision and amend the Marine and Coastal Area Act in order to restore Parliament’s test for Customary Marine Title, Treaty Negotiations Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “Section 58 required an applicant group to prove they have exclusively used and occupied ...
Regulation Minister David Seymour says that opposition parties have united in bad faith, opposing what they claim are ‘dangerous changes’ to the Early Childhood Education sector, despite no changes even being proposed yet. “Issues with affordability and availability of early childhood education, and the complexity of its regulation, has led ...
After receiving more than 740 submissions in the first 20 days, Regulation Minister David Seymour is asking the Ministry for Regulation to extend engagement on the early childhood education regulation review by an extra two weeks. “The level of interest has been very high, and from the conversations I’ve been ...
The Coalition Government is investing $802.9 million into the Wairarapa and Manawatū rail lines as part of a funding agreement with the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA), KiwiRail, and the Greater Wellington and Horizons Regional Councils to deliver more reliable services for commuters in the lower North Island, Transport Minister Simeon ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced his intention to appoint a Crown Manager to both Hawke’s Bay Regional and Wairoa District Councils to speed up the delivery of flood protection work in Wairoa."Recent severe weather events in Wairoa this year, combined with damage from Cyclone Gabrielle in 2023 have ...
Mr Speaker, this is a day that many New Zealanders who were abused in State care never thought would come. It’s the day that this Parliament accepts, with deep sorrow and regret, the Report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care. At the heart of this report are the ...
For the first time, the Government is formally acknowledging some children and young people at Lake Alice Psychiatric Hospital experienced torture. The final report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in State and Faith-based Care “Whanaketia – through pain and trauma, from darkness to light,” was tabled in Parliament ...
The Government has acknowledged the nearly 2,400 courageous survivors who shared their experiences during the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse in State and Faith-Based Care. The final report from the largest and most complex public inquiry ever held in New Zealand, the Royal Commission Inquiry “Whanaketia – through ...
With a week to go before hard-working New Zealanders see personal income tax relief for the first time in fourteen years, 513,000 people have used the Budget tax calculator to see how much they will benefit, says Finance Minister Nicola Willis. “Tax relief is long overdue. From next Wednesday, personal income ...
Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden says a bill that has passed its first reading will improve parental leave settings and give non-biological parents more flexibility as primary carer for their child. The Regulatory Systems Amendment Bill (No3), passed its first reading this morning. “It includes a change ...
Two Bills designed to improve regulation and make it easier to do business have passed their first reading in Parliament, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. The Regulatory Systems (Economic Development) Amendment Bill and Regulatory Systems (Immigration and Workforce) Amendment Bill make key changes to legislation administered by the Ministry ...
New legislation paves the way for greater competition in sectors such as banking and electricity, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly says. “Competitive markets boost productivity, create employment opportunities and lift living standards. To support competition, we need good quality regulation but, unfortunately, a recent OECD report ranked New ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says lotteries for charitable purposes, such as those run by the Heart Foundation, Coastguard NZ, and local hospices, will soon be allowed to operate online permanently. “Under current laws, these fundraising lotteries are only allowed to operate online until October 2024, after which ...
The Coalition Government is accelerating work on the new four-lane expressway between Auckland and Whangārei as part of its Roads of National Significance programme, with an accelerated delivery model to deliver this project faster and more efficiently, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “For too long, the lack of resilient transport connections ...
Sir Don McKinnon will travel to Viet Nam this week as a Special Envoy of the Government, Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced. “It is important that the Government give due recognition to the significant contributions that General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong made to New Zealand-Viet Nam relations,” Mr ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says newly appointed Commissioner, Grant Illingworth KC, will help deliver the report for the first phase of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into COVID-19 Lessons, due on 28 November 2024. “I am pleased to announce that Mr Illingworth will commence his appointment as ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters travels to Laos this week to participate in a series of Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN)-led Ministerial meetings in Vientiane. “ASEAN plays an important role in supporting a peaceful, stable and prosperous Indo-Pacific,” Mr Peters says. “This will be our third visit to ...
Construction of a new mental health facility at Te Nikau Grey Hospital in Greymouth is today one step closer, Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey says. “This $27 million facility shows this Government is delivering on its promise to boost mental health care and improve front line services,” Mr Doocey says. ...
New Zealand is committing nearly $50 million to a package supporting sustainable Pacific fisheries development over the next four years, Foreign Minister Winston Peters and Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones announced today. “This support consisting of a range of initiatives demonstrates New Zealand’s commitment to assisting our Pacific partners ...
Associate Education Minister David Seymour says proposed changes to the Education and Training Amendment Bill will ensure charter schools have more flexibility to negotiate employment agreements and are equipped with the right teaching resources. “Cabinet has agreed to progress an amendment which means unions will not be able to initiate ...
In response to serious concerns around oversight, overspend and a significant deterioration in financial outlook, the Board of Health New Zealand will be replaced with a Commissioner, Health Minister Dr Shane Reti announced today. “The previous government’s botched health reforms have created significant financial challenges at Health NZ that, without ...
Minister for Space and Science, Innovation and Technology Judith Collins will travel to Adelaide tomorrow for space and science engagements, including speaking at the Australian Space Forum. While there she will also have meetings and visits with a focus on space, biotechnology and innovation. “New Zealand has a thriving space ...
Climate Change Minister Simon Watts will travel to China on Saturday to attend the Ministerial on Climate Action meeting held in Wuhan. “Attending the Ministerial on Climate Action is an opportunity to advocate for New Zealand climate priorities and engage with our key partners on climate action,” Mr Watts says. ...
Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is travelling to the Solomon Islands tomorrow for meetings with his counterparts from around the Pacific supporting collective management of the region’s fisheries. The 23rd Pacific Islands Forum Fisheries Committee and the 5th Regional Fisheries Ministers’ Meeting in Honiara from 23 to 26 July ...
The Government today launched the Military Style Academy Pilot at Te Au rere a te Tonga Youth Justice residence in Palmerston North, an important part of the Government’s plan to crackdown on youth crime and getting youth offenders back on track, Minister for Children, Karen Chhour said today. “On the ...
The Government has welcomed news the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) has begun work to replace nine priority bridges across the country to ensure our state highway network remains resilient, reliable, and efficient for road users, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.“Increasing productivity and economic growth is a key priority for the ...
Acting Prime Minister David Seymour has been in contact throughout the evening with senior officials who have coordinated a whole of government response to the global IT outage and can provide an update. The Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet has designated the National Emergency Management Agency as the ...
New Zealand and Japan will continue to step up their shared engagement with the Pacific, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “New Zealand and Japan have a strong, shared interest in a free, open and stable Pacific Islands region,” Mr Peters says. “We are pleased to be finding more ways ...
New developments in the heart of North Island forestry country will reinvigorate their communities and boost economic development, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones visited Kaingaroa and Kawerau in Bay of Plenty today to open a landmark community centre in the former and a new connecting road in ...
President Adeang, fellow Ministers, honourable Diet Member Horii, Ambassadors, distinguished guests. Minasama, konnichiwa, and good afternoon, everyone. Distinguished guests, it’s a pleasure to be here with you today to talk about New Zealand’s foreign policy reset, the reasons for it, the values that underpin it, and how it ...
Last summer when Matairangi burned, Ginny and Tom stood at the window of their lounge, watching kākā shoot skyward from the burning trees. From the distance, they looked to Ginny like pages torn from books and thrown into a bonfire. It was Tom, voice tight, who told her it was ...
Opinion: The Canadian short story writer Alice Munro – winner of the Nobel Prize in Literature in 2013 – died in May at the age of 92. Her work was about “the damage people inflict on one another in the name of love”, Deborah Treisman wrote in the New Yorker. ...
This month marks two years since the most powerful telescope ever built sent its first pictures back to earth. From its lofty vantage point, beyond the moon in orbit around the sun, the James Webb Space Telescope was tuned to observe the first stars and galaxies being born soon after ...
Comment: After Climate Change Minister Simon Watts’ preview several weeks ago, I had some optimism about the Government’s emissions reduction plan. Now I’ve read the discussion document, that hope has been dashed. How can the Government propose a plan that wants to take New Zealand taxpayers’ hard-earned money, and spend ...
Christopher Luxon: hurdles The little man from National jumps hurdles in his sleep. He’s quite good at it in his dreams and even though the reality doesn’t quite match up you have to give him credit for getting up every morning and crashing into the very first hurdle of the ...
Comment: It was a good two hours into the conversation when Tyrone Marks raised the most basic of questions when I first spoke to him in 2017. “They didn’t explain the things they did to me. They never told me why. And they still haven’t. There’s no explanation for it. ...
Madeleine Chapman rounds out Death Week on The Spinoff with a final recommendation. You can read all of our Death Week coverage here. Nothing forces you to reflect on your life and relationships quite like proximity to death. For those whose nearest and dearest have died, there are reasonably obvious ...
Whitney Greene takes us through her life in television, including the TV character she’d like to plan a funeral for and her cow lung catastrophe on The Traitors NZ. “If the phone rings, I have to answer it,” Whitney Greene from The Traitors NZ warns as we begin our My ...
Maddie Ballard reviews the debut essay collection of Pōneke writer Flora Feltham.In ‘The Raw Material’, the longest essay in Flora Feltham’s dazzling debut collection, the author heads out for a run after hours of weaving and sees the world turn to textile. “Pounding along the Parade, I saw the ...
Andy Christiansen, one half of the experimental rock-pop duo TRiPS, shares the tunes inspiring the band’s perfect weekend and new release. “Good speakers, good food, good music, no distractions”: that’s all you need to enjoy the psychedelic stylings of TRiPS, a new band formed by Fly My Pretties’ Barnaby Weir ...
Celebrating our quadrennial opportunity to become experts in a bunch of sports we never normally watch.The games of the XXXIII Olympiad are upon us. Paris will host this year’s showcase of sporting and athletic prowess, which means some late-night and early-morning viewing for us in Aotearoa.But what sports ...
The photograph is striking and beautiful, but also disturbing – a reminder that my love for John was often entangled in shame.The Sunday Essay is made possible thanks to the support of Creative New Zealand.In the spring of 1980, in Dunedin, shortly before his death, someone took a photograph ...
Get to know Babushka, our latest Dog of the Month. This feature was offered as a reward during our What’s Eating Aotearoa PledgeMe campaign. Thank you to Babu’s humans, Jo and Isabel, for their support. Dog name: Babushka (Babu for short) Age: 2Breed: Border Collie X poodleIf rescued, ...
Pacific Media Watch A Lebanese photojournalist who was severely wounded during an Israeli air strike in south Lebanon carried the Olympic torch in Paris this week in honour of her peers who have been wounded and killed in the field — especially in Gaza and Lebanon. Christina Assi of Agence ...
The first report in a five-part web series focused on the 15th Triennial Conference of Pacific Women taking place in the Marshall Islands this week.SPECIAL REPORT:By Netani Rika in Majuro Women continue to fight for justice 70 years after the first nuclear tests by the United States caused ...
Christopher Luxon has joined with Australia and Canada's leaders in voicing support for US President Joe Biden's ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra The 2022 election brought the “teal wave” into parliament. The next election will test whether teals, who occupy what were Liberal seats, and other independents can maintain their momentum. Joining us on the Podcast ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ian Musgrave, Senior lecturer in Pharmacology, University of Adelaide Pixavri/Shutterstock A major Federal Court class action has been dismissed this week after Justice Michael Lee ruled there was not enough evidence to prove the weedkiller Roundup causes cancer. Plaintiff Kelvin ...
In The Week in Politics: politicians have to decide what to do about child abuse, Health NZ is booked in for major surgery and Darleen Tana returns. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Clare Corbould, Associate Professor, Contemporary Histories Research Group, Deakin University Mainstream media are surprisingly muted at the prospect of the world’s most powerful nation being led for the first time by a woman – specifically a woman of colour, Vice President Kamala ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rebecca Bennett, PhD Student, Associate Research Fellow, Deakin University Last week, a drone delivery company called Wing (owned by Google’s parent company, Alphabet) started operating in Melbourne. Some 250,000 residents in parts of the city’s eastern suburbs can now order food from ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jonathan Foo, Lecturer, Physiotherapy, Monash University pikselstock/Shutterstock In the next 40 years in Australia, it’s predicted the number of Australians aged 65 and over will more than double, while the number of people aged 85 and over will more than triple. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Katrina Grant, Research Associate, Power Institute for Arts and Visual Culture, University of Sydney Jonas Åkerström’s 1790 work, Session of the Accademia dell’Arcadia on August 17 1788.Nationalmuseum/Cecilia Heisser Ever wondered whether you’d have a better chance at winning an Olympic gold ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alexandra Jones, Program Lead, Food Governance, George Institute for Global Health wavebreakmedia/Shutterstock On Thursday, Australian and New Zealand food ministers at state, federal and national levels met to thrash out what’s next for health star ratings on packaged foods. Now, after ...
The Abuse in Care report found many Pacific survivors lost their connections to their culture and language, resulting in trauma that has been carried from generation to generation. ...
In the regulatory review, ECC intends to suggest that ERO focus on curriculum delivery reviews rather than the Ministry, because it’s not efficient or effective to have two agencies with radically different approaches climbing over each other. ...
Te Rūnanga Nui o Ngā Kura Kaupapa Māori invites the current government to work in partnership with them to develop a pathway forward, including the development of a parallel pathway and meaningful policy and strategy for Kura Kaupapa Māori ...
If you haven’t started watching yet, Tara Ward begs you to reconsider. This is an excerpt from our weekly pop culture newsletter Rec Room. Sign up here. In the world of New Zealand reality television, we have many gems in our crown. There’s the delicious second season of the Celebrity Treasure ...
A new poem by Fiona Kidman. The clothes of the dead I did not keep my mother’s furry red beret for long nor the stringy scarves that adorned the necks of my aunts, although I have kept tag ends of gold, the rings and trinkets they wore, the brooches no ...
The government’s announcement that it will re-open the foreshore and seabed controversy by changing the rules on recognising centuries-old Māori customary title for a third time goes against the rule of law and New Zealand values,” Mr Tipa says. ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1 Lioness by Emily Perkins (Bloomsbury, $25) Roarrrr! Perkins’ brilliant, award-winning, Marian-Keyes anointed, darkly funny, long ...
The 2004 Act vested ownership of the foreshore and seabed in the Crown, extinguishing any Māori claims to ownership and causing widespread outrage and protests among Māori communities. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Antje Deckert, Associate Professor (Criminology), Auckland University of Technology Getty Images Despite the connection between institutional harm and gang membership made clear in this week’s mammoth royal commission abuse-in care report, the government seems unlikely to soften its “get tough on ...
From Lewis Clareburt in the swimming to the start of the rowing – the first seven days of Paris 2024 promise to be big for New Zealand. There are few events that bring the country together quite like an Olympic Games. Nothing quite matches the excitement of getting up in ...
Groundbreaking local science just showed up in the most surprising of places: the season finale of The Kardashians. In the season five finale of The Kardashians last night, several members of the family gathered together in one of their signature empty, cream-coloured rooms to hear test results that had been ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Amin Saikal, Emeritus professor of Middle Eastern and Central Asian Studies, Australian National University The Middle East is on the brink of a possibly devastating regional war, with hostilities between Israel and Hezbollah reaching an extremely dangerous level. Washington has engaged in ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Laura Elizabeth Eades, Rheumatologist, Monash University Lupus is an inflammatory autoimmune illness, where the body’s immune system mistakenly attacks itself. Lupus can affect virtually any part of the body, although it most commonly affects the skin, joints and kidneys. The symptoms ...
A law firm that specialises in working with survivors of abuse in State care is disappointed that the Government fails to recognise that its boot camps can be directly compared to previous boot camps from the 1990s and 2000s. ...
Dying is a natural part of life, like updating your Wof or seeing your hairdresser, but without the word-of-mouth recs that help guarantee a good service. What if we changed that? Dying Reviews received by The Spinoff have had the names of organisations redacted while Hospice NZ collects further data. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jonti Horner, Professor (Astrophysics), University of Southern Queensland Mike Lewinski/Flickr, CC BY On any clear night, if you gaze skywards long enough, chances are you’ll see a meteor streaking through the sky. Some nights, however, are better than others. At ...
Despite having no bars or other designated spaces for lesbians, Auckland boasts a small but mighty lesbian museum. So how did it get here? The past 18 months has brought increasing hostility towards the queer community across Aotearoa. Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull’s anti-trans rally in Tamaki Makaurau last March led to a ...
Poneke Antifascist Coalition has invited Wellingtonians to stand in solidarity with the Kanak people at 12pm today outside the French Embassy in Wellington. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Layton, Visiting Fellow, Strategic Studies, Griffith University Drones are the signature technology of the Ukraine war. A few miniature aircraft designs were used in the war’s early days, but an incredible array of drones have now evolved. There are different types, ...
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National’s woeful mismanagement of the economy will see a fire sale of our land to foreign speculators and land grabbers.
Welcome to colonialism.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/280893/dairy-farmers-may-soon-be-forced-to-sell
mission accomplished.
+1
Our trade partners have already worked out,
Why buy the milk when you can buy the farm?
Also if free trade is so great why were milk prices at over $7 a kilo milk solids in 2008 but now forecast at $3.85 kilo – the free trade deals are clearly not trickling down into the farmers pockets?
More like a short term spike in speculation.
Has anyone done any research on if the Nats sign TPPA that Fonterra will even be allowed to remain a co operative? Wouldn’t that be against the secret rules?
Absurdistan.
Why buy the milk when you can buy the farm, indeed.
If open economies are the pathway to economic prosperity, why haven’t we had a current account surplus since 1973?
http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/statistics/key_graphs/current_account/
This one came out yesterday:
Even Labour aren’t looking at the only real solution we have – the government purchases the farms and hires the farmers.
And then today we get this:
Really, buy them up and make sure that they’re never sold to the private sector again. Return most of them to native forest as it’s time we got on with being a developed nation that looks after it’s environment rather than a nation that refuses to enter the 21st century and thinks that farming is the bees knees.
EDIT:
Neither the farmers nor National anticipated diary prices falling – ever. They thought that the Great White Wave would continue forever. Muldoon did the same thing with sheep. Hell, our history is rife with National always doing the same bloody thing which is why our economy and society is so far behind where it should be.
That was a good opinion piece by Jane Bowron this morning.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/70958458/yip-its-about-time-to-panic-on-the-economic-meltdown
One of those nameless, National flag waving Herald writers tried this on not long ago. Said the economy was all about confidence and negative talk from those who don’t agree with government policy is very dangerous.
Bugger open debate, and that’s right, yet again it’s Labour’s fault.
Panicking is not recommended.
Markets (due to their fickle nature) are largely a confidence game, it only takes a well placed rumour to send shareholders running.
However, failure to acknowledge and discuss market realities is far more dangerous than putting ones head in the sand and denying the reality.
Yes Jane. Especially this bit,”And now the evil day has arrived, there’s a worldwide over-supply and glut and we’re supposed to feel sorry for those who scrambled to get in on the white gold rush,…”
I felt sorry for the individual athletes who lost out to the Springbok Tour in the 80s but not at all sorry for the Rugby Union.
I feel sorry for the individual farmer who has a family and trying really hard to make a go of it but not at all sorry for the Dairy Industry.
“”Even Labour aren’t looking at the only real solution we have – the government purchases the farms and hires the farmers.””
Na cut them down to 300 cow blocka and lease them out for 10 /30 year periods .
Still need to buy them first.
“Welcome to colonialism.”
Been there, done that – remember what has been done here before – perhaps more people will have empathy with tangata whenua and their justified claims, somehow I doubt it.
True, dat
Bloody optimist
/sacr
People are going to be wondering how they lost it all for a long time. It may take decades before they get out of the misery and stop fighting to try and get it back and finally start to become compassionate with other groups.
Not really – they’ve got us to tell them, with facts and figures, that it was all Nationals fault.
Not sure there’ll be a flood of “investors” pouring money into unprofitable, grossly over-valued NZ dairy farms. And a lot, maybe most, of the “farmers” affected will be overseas and local investors who poured money into the industry on the basis of $6 + payouts. The future will be looking very sad for them.
Peters is talking the economic reality in that piece, or reported that way.
I just hope we’re not heading down the track of a South Canterbury style solution where the government “guarantees” the loans to take them off the bank’s hands. The way Andrew’s been reported there, we could walk straight into English coming out with that.
The banks and “investors” got themselves into this, at the expense of the rest of the economy, they can get themselves out of it.
Offshore investors looking to vertically integrate may unlock the potential locals can’t .
Doesn’t make any sense to vertically integrate when you can buy product well below your or your supplier’s cost of production. You’ll be trying to de-intergrate if you can.
Historical precedent from previous boom collapses, like in the late 1800’s, would point to an exit by overseas investors.
You overlook the fact that long-term food security is largely driving this form of investment.
China’s central government has ordered $3 trillion be spent securing food and farmland overseas.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/sunday-night/features/a/28634435/foreign-investors-on-hunt-for-aussie-farms/
Yes Serco style, by cutting corners, getting corporate welfare and environmental pollution, intensive factory farms for dairy etc
Do you really want Mad Cow, Foot and Mouth and so forth plaguing Europe in NZ?
Do you want to see our cows eating shit and newspaper and meat products made into ‘grain’ aka USA style of factory farming?
Our rivers and streams flooded with effluent cos the government is too frightened or is unable to sue anyone because they are too afraid, or the process to stop it takes years and years of court action in a foreign tribunal.
Our farmers are efficient. It is the politicising that is a real barrier to trade. for example milk could have sold to Russian a while back, but our ‘friends’ said no and the government put a stop to it.
Now farmers who were fed stories about ‘expansion’ for the ‘boom’ – the boom from free trade has not happened, instead food scares, our IP being given away and so forth have lowered prices.
Not quite Sabine, just gotta tie up loose ends by signing TPP, to make sure every last bit of control handed overseas, then “Job Done” and off to Hawaii
Pretty over winter. Hope we get another epic summer.
Disagree. Been a superb winter – amazing powder days with more to come!!
Got some bad news for you. An El Nino is rearing it’s ugly head. If you live in western parts summer will be colder, windier and wetter than usual. If you live in eastern parts it means cloudy, cooler days with very little rain.
Some more global warming should help. I’ll do my best.
Another $1-2 billion loss for farmers this summer from drought along with the $4 billion or so in reduced dairy price payouts and things are looking pretty bad.
Probably taking global climate change a bit more seriously at government level could have the farmers a lot more than speculation on a return of a high milk solid price.
Another mismanagement issue from Fonterra. All those years of record milk solids prices and no move away from the use of dirty coal. What a disgracefully run business.
As pointed out by Labour and denied by National a year ago …
https://www.facebook.com/GrantRobertsonLabour/videos/679332472098987/
I was interested that Fran O’Sullivan commented on Q+A that there had been gaming on the GDT. I was suspecting something like that going on, so why didn’t the 100+ financial staff Fonterra recently laid off know about this? Or did they? And how could the downturn in demand from China be a ‘surprise’ to all Fonterra’s and the governments’ experts? And if Fonterra is 80% in debt as mentioned in the Dominion Post article linked & quoted in the comments above, who is lending Fonterra the money for Fonterra to make two-year-interest-free loans to struggling farmers?
It is mind boggling what did they think would happen when other countries producing, or capable of producing milk powder would do when they saw the prices Fonterra were receiving at gobal milk powder auctions.
And still there in lala land thinking the price will lift again in the future. The likes of Northland dairy farmers should be getting advice to convert to dry stock as the export market is looking a lot brighter. And this useless Government should be assisting this.
CR. What is GDT?
Fonterra’s Global Dairy Trade electronic exchange platform
“who is lending Fonterra the money for Fonterra to make two-year-interest-free loans to struggling farmers?”
Lots of nice friendly debt market investors apparently.
Those paragons of social conscience who selflessly help companies struggle through the tough times 😉
If the [incomplete] list of bonds below is anything to go by Fonterra’s juggling skills will be put to the test.
NZD$350 million matures in 2021 and was oversubscribed by NZD$100 million
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/timely-fonterra-sale-6-year-bonds-draws-oversubscriptions-bd-171527
” The funds raised are to be used for general corporate purposes, it said.”
(A company doesn’t let a bond issue become oversubscribed without a reason, or a plan, well we hope they don’t)
Then there is the NZD$150 million due in 2016
http://www.interest.co.nz/news/40582/fonterra-cuts-retail-bond-offer-nz150-million
the NZD$388 million issued in Australia, also due to mature next year (2016)
http://www.interest.co.nz/bonds-data/bond-issue/231
the nzd$75 million due 2018
http://www.interest.co.nz/bonds-data/bond-issue/231
and the nzd$250 million due 2019
http://www.interest.co.nz/bonds/68127/fonterra-borrows-nz250-mln-through-5-year-international-bond-issue-denominated-chinese
Which all seems a long way from this statement in 2012
http://www.interest.co.nz/rural-news/59075/businessdesk-fonterra-wont-seek-new-non-farmer-equity-growth-van-der-heyden
As the bonds were issued to cover existing/ongoing expenses and to enable the recycling of Fonterra’s mountains of debt, I guess they are technically keeping their word to their shareholders. Shareholders who are, for a while longer anyway, the farmers that trusted them to grow so big so quickly.
It’s not a business it’s a co-op of old boys milking a model well past it’s use by date being cheered on by a reckless gov’t that can’t be arsed diversifying or future proofing.
Sounds familiar across many industries really in this country such as the utilities sector.
Interesting editorial re ece levels
Teachers are spending far too long filling out national standards reports.
Are ECE involved in Nat Stds? I didn’t think so.
Err…perhaps not.
But it won’t be long!!
Yes far more important to spend teachers times reporting back to the government that actually ‘teaching’ kids.
Under Nat Standards it is all about the paperwork.
From memory, more and more time at Playcentre was being spent to ensure that the Ministry was confident that the facility was meeting the guidance of Te Whaariki. This was part of the internal and ongoing audit of the local group, and it did take quite a lot of time away from the interaction with children.
I’m sure that this requirement is even higher in non-participatory ECE’s, especially under National’s version of “accountability.”
Exactly remember how Serco topped the tables of exceptional prisons, pity it was all a lie. Paperwork, lies.
All these league tables and constant reporting is making a mockery of a system that is all about teaching children.
They already have something called ERO that checks the schools, they should not need to be doing daily paperwork reports to government.
I suppose one has to laugh. Everything in the article reveals a syndrome I was squealing about yesterday: The people at the Herald are propagandists, and not very smart thinkers or competent writers. Apparently, early home-life is a big factor in learning, so it becomes the teacher’s fault, not child poverty, zero-hour contracts for their parents, less than living wage, oh fuck, must go on? No one who reads that Editorial drivel, and nods like a grazing cow at it, is listening. Early education (read, indoctrination) makes it easier to educate (read, control) kids later. Wow, that’s ground breaking stuff, Herald Editor, really groundbreaking… for 1950. Fuckin’ dimwits should read up on what the Soviets and other similar outfits discovered about that sort of thing. Fuck they’re dumb. Dumb as fuck. Blinkered. Willfully ignorant. Myopic tautologies.
“Fortunately, the Ministry of Education seems to have taken on board the alarming picture painted by the ERO report. It says early childhood providers will be reminded of the “need to actively promote positive learning outcomes for infants and toddlers” and practical guidance will be provided for them to do this”
Oh, good grief, that’ll be the day! This government has systematically undermined the ece sector from the moment they walked through the door because, yet again $$$$$ – more and more centres are privately owned, some chains are now big business and yes, of course,m Australia has its foot in the door too. As an early childhood lecturer/teacher/ training provider I have walked through the doors of a number of centres I wouldn’t put the hotel cat in!
And no, Charles, ece teachers who know what they’re doing do NOT ‘indoctrinate’ children – download a copy of their ‘Te Whariki’ curriculum and you might be quite surprised. Of course all sorts can happen in the poorer quality centres because this government reversed the requirement to have only qualified teachers in centres – so much cheaper, you know, and better for the profit margins. Besides which, the quality of some teacher training centres need a long hard look – there are some who have the reputation of taking anyone with “a pair of legs and a cheque book”
Go Colin.
http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2015/08/10/guest-blog-colin-craig-dirty-politics-why-should-we-care/
Not sure if someone has hacked tdb site, but my comment is not showing up. Hacked?
I wonder who would do that?
[lprent: It pays to read the site policies on comments. Here is ours.
All comments at TDB have to be released by a moderator, so it depends when a moderator has time to go through them. It used to be that quite a few never make it out for no obviously legitimate reason. It appears to gotten a lot better since they adopted a clearer moderation operational policy and less personality driven moderation. I have no idea what it is like right now.
We have a different operational policy.
First comments by a handle/’email’ combination have to be approved by a moderator. If they don’t add anything to the debate or violate policy, then they are silently trashed. The standard used for first comments is higher than the toleration for established commenters as it is the most effective way to exclude people who aren’t of a standard to comment here. In other words we exclude idiot trolls. For instance, like the fool who managed to put in 16 first comments all of which were pure attacks on various people without managing to express any opinions or ideas themselves.
Once you get a first comment through moderation, then you can comment without delay, and generally we rely on the commenters to moderate themselves.
If commenters don’t manage to moderate themselves within our policy, then we will try warn or give small bans initially to demonstrate the edges (unless they do something to damage the site operations). However recidivism results in exponential increases in ban lengths. That is because we don’t want to spend large amounts of time moderating, people either moderate themselves or we reduce the numbers of times we have to moderate them.
We think that this approach allows for fast robust debate that isn’t usually too boring. But different sites have different priorities and policies. ]
Nah dude. That’s just normal lag for tdb. Everything goes through the “Scarlet Filter” over there. Don’t be surprised it it turns up later edited or modified, or not at all. It’s the way they like it.
My two cents, the moderating at TDB does seen to be akin to the old Red Alert whereas The Standard mostly gets the moderating about right
TS let both of us run around in here. Can’t argue with that. haha.
just remember to watch out for the edge of the coffee table 🙂
It does tend to have an roadrunner cliff edge, that often allows people to run on air before the reality moderator strikes…
Meanwhile the audience watches for the realization…..
Looked to me like the latest commenting issue arose there at TDB after the post re the Listener’s friendly article on GCSB & SIS. I am tending to keep an open mind about how low our authorities will stoop to these days.
The scarlet woman has reported a glitch in the system, but it’s amusing it should occur after the secret squirrels post.
Yes I find it suspicious. While they moderate it shows up waiting to go live. For some reason the comments are not doing this at all. It looks like either a hack or computer glitch.
The one about Colin Craig, still has no comments – I find this strange.
Just left a message asking if anybody’s there?
Nobody’s there.
Wonder if someone is trying to jam the site.
Gee, what with this and the CC saga, I fear NZ is going run out of popcorn very soon.
TPPA is a money machine for Big Pharma and Big Ag.
Step 1. National Govt overrides local govt GE free zones.
Step 2. TPPA signed
Step 3. Increased use of Roundup (resulting from increased use of Monsanto seeds genetically modified to be resistant to glyphosate in Roundup)
Step 4. Probable increase in non-Hodgkins lymphoma. (A blood cancer)
(according to World Health Organisation Study http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/mar/21/roundup-cancer-who-glyphosate-
Step 5. Big Pharma makes a killing if TPPA allows increased patent life on newest drugs .
http://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/treatment/drugs/non-hodgkin
It’s like Nestle owning Jenny Craig. A “win-win.”
Step 1. National Govt overrides local govt GE free zones.
Just like when Maui County voted on a moratorium to their islands continual use as a GE laboratory, and the presiding judge refused and passed it over to the jurisdiction of the state.
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/6/30/federal-judge-rules-Maui-ban-on-GMO-crops-invalid.html
A federal judge ruled Tuesday that a Maui County ban on the cultivation of genetically engineered crops is pre-empted by federal and state law and invalid.
Glyphosate (roundup sales), along with GMO are being banned around the world but not in The Land of The Long (Term) White Scam
National Govt overrides local govt GE free zones.
Well, they certainly should – rules about GE should apply at a national level, not be made up piecemeal by local councils.
Why, Psycho Milt? Why remove the juristiction regional councils presently hold, as ruled by the Environment Court judge recently in the case where Federated Farmers did as you are doing and claimed that the Government, through the MPI, should make that decision, thereby dismissing the judgement by the EC judge. What makes you say that central government should over-ride local government on this issue?
Suppose a local council wanted to declare itself a pro-GE zone, where experimentation and commercial use of engineered plants was welcomed and enouraged. It couldn’t, because central government legislation overrides local government on this issue. I expect you’re comfortable with that. I am too, because the issue of whether GE is permitted or not, and under what circumstances, is essentially a national one (councils not being in a position to order wind and weather not to distribute plants across council boundaries).
That still applies if/when the government changes its legislation to allow full exploitation of GE. The issue is a national one, and local councils have no business banning productive enterprises from their jurisdictions.
Suppose a community wanted to retain their GE-free status through the mechanism of their elected councillors.
It seems that you argument is, like that of Amy Adams, that the decision to be GE-free or “pro-GE” is a national one, because GMO’s will spread, regardless of the wishes of the peoples of any particular region.
If in fact, a region wanted to release GMO that would trespass a neighbouring region, they’d need to discuss this outcome with that affected region and arrange some compensation/mitigation or whatever, rather than claiming that their own rights would be curtailed by the region wanting to remain GE-free. Discussions between regions and deals brokered that way seems the democratic solution, rather than your proposed dictatorial broad-scale declaration by the central government. What about the will of local people in regards the land on which they depend?
We are GE-free now. A change to the staus quo should only be made in the light that compensation should be provided to those who will lose their presently-held conditions as a result of a new activity.
Believe it or not, local councils aren’t city states or independent fiefdoms. They don’t have sovereignty, and aren’t in a position to forge treaties or diplomatic relations with neighbouring councils. Maybe they’d like to be, but it would be a completely insane government that let them.
As to compensation, that’s like declaring a Muslim-free zone and demanding the government pay you compensation for allowing Muslims free movement within NZ. Onus is on you to demonstrate harm.
Neighbouring councils don’t meet and discuss issues such as any effects they might have on each other – go on!
You say the “onus is on you to demonstrate harm” – fine, let the various councils do just that, as those who have chosen the precautionary model have done. There are no GMO in our forests and fields yet, let those who propose their introduction prove their safety. Dictatorially removing the decisions from councils with a stroke of the MPI pen is not democracy, it has anothert name. The Environment Court judge judged that councils can do what you suggest. National is saying, nah. Why? ‘Cause.
I don’t think you understand what “the onus is on you to demonstrate harm” means – it’s the opposite of the precautionary principle.
The “precautionary principle” is a crock of shit. It says “You can’t allow Muslim immigrants into my Muslim-free zone until you can prove no harm can ensue” and imagines that’s a clever way of doing things. The first people to domesticate animals or modify crops through experimentation could never have proved what they were doing was safe, any more than the people who are modifying things a bit faster these days can.
As to our forests and fields being free of human-modified organisms, they are in fact crawling with them, from the cows on down to the grasses and crops. If local councils have a beef with some particular means of modifying organisms, it’s really none of their business
Don’t be dumb, Muslims have been around for over a millennia and have been well tested in many different political and social environments, whereas GMO technology is brand new, monbey driven, and could conceivably destroy large parts of the ecosystem in ways we do not yet understand.
BTW you seem to equate selective breeding of cattle and grass as being equivalent to GMO technology which is pretty stupid, as it isn’t.
(Oops – posted this at the end of the general thread)
The precautionary principle is not a crock of shit, though your claiming it is reveals an intolerant position from you. Where the likelihood of something occurring cannot be 100% determined but the potential harm that could come from it is significant, the precautionary principle is a very valuable safeguard against disaster. I’m ignoring your “Muslim” analogy, as it is charged with its own issues – if you want to talk GMO, let’s use GMO as the example. Your equating of “domestication” with genetic engineering though, is a crock, to use your phraseology. You know as well as I, that there is a profound difference between conventional plant and animal breeding and the insertion of genetic material using modern genetic engineering methods. Your attempt to blend the two techniques is lame. The rest of your 6:39 comment has too little value for me to comment on.
Where the likelihood of something occurring can’t be 100% determined, but the potential harm that could come from it is significant, you regulate the practitioners and put some safeguards and minimum standards in place. The precautionary principle, on the other hand, is a straightforward recipe for nobody doing anything, ever, because no-one can guarantee any particular activity is safe. It’s childish, moronic even.
And you ought to know, as well as I do, that GE is different from earlier methods of modifying plants and animals for human use mainly in that it’s a lot faster and more effective. The scare-mongering that prompts councils to declare ridiculous “GE-free” zones comes down to the long-standing tradition of people fearing what they don’t understand.
BTW you seem to equate selective breeding of cattle and grass as being equivalent to GMO technology which is pretty stupid, as it isn’t.
Yeah, that would be pretty stupid. They aren’t remotely equivalent – compared to GE, selective breeding is a clumsy process significantly dependent on luck.
“The issue is a national one, and local councils have no business banning productive enterprises from their jurisdictions.
And the issue of productive enterprises being destroyed through the introduction of GMO into the neighbourhood?
That issue, Psycho Milt? Has central government have any “business” in doing that?
Suppose a local council wanted to declare itself a pro-GE zone, where experimentation and commercial use of engineered plants was welcomed and enouraged.
Then the EPA would say this was a silly idea and should not happen. National’s proposal is that the EPA sets the maximum amount of protection, not a minimum standard.
Protection from what, in this case? Also, the fact that councils are and should remain subordinate to legislation, not superior to it, is exactly my point.
” the fact that councils are and should remain subordinate to legislation, not superior to it, is exactly my point.”
Councils presently are acting withing the legislation and do have jurisdiction over this issue, as ruled by the Environment Court judge recently – exactly my point.
You are arguing for a change to that status quo, a change the Government threatens to make unilaterally.
So, no.
And further more…
” The scare-mongering that prompts councils to declare ridiculous “GE-free” zones comes down to the long-standing tradition of people fearing what they don’t understand.”
When the people of any given community express their views through their elected representatives, it’s called democracy.
Asking that a “zone” be put in place that is designated to be “free” of whatever, given that it doesn’t contravene any laws or existing rights, is surely, yes, that old chestnut, democracy.
Why, Psycho Milt?
In any case, why should a particular industry, in this case plantation forestry working through the Ministry for Primary Industries, cause a region to (permanantly) lose it’s GE-free status? And another thing, why is MPI re-writing environmental standards? What happened to the Ministry for the Environment???
And any resulting mess will no doubt be the responsibility of local government to clean up – central government will ‘just spray and walk away’
Clean up GMO from the environment, JanM?
That’d take more than a puff of whatever.
In any case, a region’s GE-free status can’t be reinstated, can it. Once revoked, never regained. Such status is worth a great deal of money to those producing for global markets.
Who’s going to compensate them?
GE-free is the existing status and land use. Incoming technologies need to prove themselves and subject themselves to the decisions of those who will be affected negatively by them. Ruling them in without discussion with affected communities is dictatorial, not democratic, not collaborative, not fair.
How could Fonterra NOT know they were heading for a huge meltdown.
China stockpiling for years.
European internal milk quotas lapsed last April. ( known about for years ).
English dairy farmers produced 1.8 million more tonnes in the each of last few years.
British dairy farmers commuting to huge dirt-cheap dairy farms they developed in Poland in recent years.
Russia banning European dairy imports after Ukraine. ( had to go somewhere ).
Fonterra KNEW and therefore English and Key knew.
Rachel Smalley continues to defend John Campbell ‘white male monopoly’ comments
http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/70970067/rachel-smalley-continues-to-defend-john-campbell-white-male-monopoly-comments
I remember once when Rachel Smalley was fronting something on TV3 and the price of petrol had just gone up. Her comment was that it would cost her more to fill up the Maserati. I haven’t had any time for her since. Snob.
If she really cared about male domination she would not be working at her current radio station and towing the party line where men’s opinions rule, the establishment rules and climate change doesn’t exist. It’s called selling your soul.
And thats only Europe. US, Canada, Brasil , Argentina and Mexico ( in the desert for Christsake ) and most of Asia from Turkmenistan to China all upping production hugely.
The spruiking of the White Goldmine is criminal.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11494689
But Mike, that’s your entire modus operandi.
Without snappy one liner answers to complex issues what do you present every night, apart from ever-more complex lapel adjustments and security for investors of hair product futures?
This puts the “Dairy Crisis” into perspective.
http://www.interest.co.nz/rural-data/dairy-industry-payout-history
Dated from 2002
Lowest price: $3.34
Highest price: $8.40
Average around $5.00
I’m glad Labour have declared it a crisis because it means the prices will begin to rise again if past history is anything to go by 🙂
Commodity prices aren’t going anywhere upwards in a hurry, where’s the demand going to come from?
Commidity prices rise, commidity prices fall, there’ll be a market for it again at some point
No there won’t. Agriculture is something that every nation can, and will, do meaning that relying on it to develop our economy is outright stupid. Admittedly, that does seem to describe a lot of National supporters, RWNJs and farmers accurately.
in spite of all the record milk harvests going on around the world ?
So what it shows is only in the last 5 years has Dairy been profitable. If you look back prior to that it’s struggling to break even.
Have you even considered the massive increase in debt (from the boardroom to the farmgate to suppliers to regional/local councils) that has exploded across the entire industry since the $3.85 price was last seen a decade ago? What impact do you foresee if the price does not return to $6 a kilo within the next 24 months? Markets might well be cyclical but the debt margins those markets operate under are never operating in a smoothly co-joined manner. The debt markets will not simply say – ‘oh you’re having a tough time, don’t worry about the7% interest your bonds issue promised’ They are more likely to say-‘how about you just give us Units in your Shareholders Fund instead’
That is separate of course to the very real risk of the banks turning down the screws in 2017 and claiming back what they are owed.
Fonterra might well be able to juggle on a pogo stick whilst swallowing the lumpy bits, most NZ farms are not in such an enviable position.
no perspective at all…it ignores the change in farming systems and the inflationary impact on inputs…talk to any dairy farmer and ask whats happened to inputs over the past 15 years, what was viable in 2002 is not viable in 2015 and beyond….and all of this ignores the short term impact of land value reduction and equity ratios…if you want an indicator of what is likely to occur think back to the removal of SMPs and then consider the recovery from that took 15 plus years and was only turned around by ….yes ,the dairy boom..a once in a lifetime perfect storm caused by Chinese industrialisation and urbanisation.
The issue isn’t particularly the payout, it is the average rising cost involved in running herds.
Back in 1998-2006, almost every dairy farm was making a profit with price levels that were less than $4/kg milk solids. Since then the area covered by dairy farms has nearly doubled, and the herd levels on existing farms has at least doubled. The way this was done was effectively by throwing capital at it, largely through debt. That allowed the conversion of other farm types to dairy, the addition of feedpads, extensive feeding, and mucg more intensive dairy farming.
Between the repayment of financing costs and the changes in operational costs, the average required payout to even break-even is well over $5/kg and probably closer to $6/kg.
Now that the world prices have reverted back towards normal, ie about $4/kg, the cost structure of our current dairy industry will have to adjust. Herd sizes will drop. Many recently converted farms will revert. Something like about 20-30% of current sharemilkers will wind up walking away voluntarily or involuntarily as they cannot make a profit. A significiant number of farm owners will be bankrupted.
This was all quite obvious five years ago and an imminent economic crisis in 2012. However National kept pouring resources and support into this single economic sector. They really are naturally stupid (or greedy bearing mind the number of National MPs with stakes in dairy) is the only way of looking at it.
Your “perspective” is daft because it assumes that industry in 2002 is the same as it is in 2015. You have to admire the timeless view of the conservative, but unfortunately the rest of us tend to live in the reality, not fantasyland.
“They really are naturally stupid (or greedy bearing mind the number of National MPs with stakes in dairy) is the only way of looking at it.”
Or, it’s speculation with the idea that the risk doesn’t matter because when the farms go bankrupt we have overseas buyers waiting in the wings. Or all 3.
Lynn do you remember the forces farm sales in the 80s? What was behind that? I seem to remember spiking interest rates on mortgages, but am curious if there was also a broader context like you have described above.
SMPs. Supplementary minimum payments and the previous subsidy programs
Umm http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/research_and_publications/reserve_bank_bulletin/1982/1982may45_4anoteonthesupplementryminimumpricesscheme.pdf
It was a scheme designed to both support existing farmers (mainly sheep) when the world prices kept dropping, and to encourage more production.
Retrospective – see the Conclusion
https://researcharchive.lincoln.ac.nz/bitstream/handle/10182/191/aeru_rr_191.pdf?sequence=1
The nett effect economically for exports was bugger all, but arguably I think that it allowed National to win the 1978 and 1981 elections from rural electorates.
In 1977 I spent most of the year before university working on a number of farms deciding if it was worth heading off to farm. What convinced me that it was a waste of time was most of the farms were effectively uneconomic, but survived because of the subsidies and capital gains driven by those subsidies.
By 1981/2 the subsidies were “…30% of the total output from farming.“. They were at least as much a contributor to the enormous deficits in 1984/5 as think big was.
Essentially what those subsidies wound up doing was to defer the required changes in agricultural production by nearly a decade. Of course a lot of National MPs were sheep farmers 🙂
When the subsidies were removed, then there was a wholesale restructure in the farming sector within a very short timeframe, drops in farm incomes, and for a while sharp drops in farmland values, with the consequent social dislocations. Lyn’s family for instance in Southland sold up and moved to Invercargill.
The high interest rates were more of a side effect of having a very high inflation rate, largely caused by government overspending on things like SMP and their consequent expansion of the money supply. Pretty typical of National. They tend to live in a past fantasyland for as long as possible while shoveling debt on to kids.
Interesting, thanks. So a few similarities with what is happening now. It was one of the keys to my politicaly awakening, seeing what then were actually traditional family farmers losing their land to the bank (one side of my famliy are farmers). A real eye opener.
+1 – if someone loses their farm it is a terrible thing, equivalent to someone losing their job and home. I think there should be a bit more sympathy.
Nobody seems to post about how stupid and greedy other industries are, such as machinists are when they lose their job as everyone starts shopping for cheaper clothes made with cheap labour or if the timber mill or meat works close down.
The comments also reveal how neoliberalism is so ingrained in the Kiwi way of looking at things. Hello farming is not about profit and loss, for a farmer it is a way of life. For overseas investors could be a range of reasons for the investment, land banking and immigration, tax losses. The Chinese have a lot of people to feed for example.
Milk also reflects the changing culture of families. Instead of a parent staying at home and breastfeeding, woman bottle feed formula and go back to work. The amount of breastfeeding in NZ is only about 17% of woman breast feeding for 6 months.
Remember the ‘attack politics’ about Breast Nazis – the opposite is true, breastfeeding is very low in this country at only about 17% of woman making it to 6 months.
Thankyou Iprent, that is the most lucid explanation I have read thus far 🙂
Two thirds of NZ Agriculture debt is acknowledged as Dairy debt. That is appoximately 40 billion dollars relying on a quick rebound in prices. That 40 billion affects more than the farm holding the debt. The towns the farm buys off, the services the farm supports. The towns that support the people that support the farms. These things are not isolated from each other and you know that.
http://www.interest.co.nz/charts/credit/agriculture-credit
plus the debt carried by Fonterra has to be considered
http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-10082015/#comment-1057118
Take the basic cost of living in the two different periods where a $3.85 payout occured and common sense shows how the present price is far worse for the wider economy than the same price was a decade ago.
There are other costs of course, and all the good intentions of those expressing their ‘confidence in the sector’ seem strangely silent when confronted with the distance between ideal solutions and on the farm reality
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/rural/277073/rural-mental-health-crisis-predicted
I might personally wish the Government showed as much concern for all its citizens as it does for farmers, but if they need the help, then they should get it http://farmstrong.co.nz/
No, the unit price per se does not provide a perspective without taking the total volume into account.
If you have time, and are genuinely interested in this, then have a look at this speech delivered to DairyNZ in Hamilton on 7 May 2014 by Graeme Wheeler, Governor RBNZ The significance of dairy to the New Zealand economy. The Conclusion at the end is particularly interesting and it was written only just over a year ago.
It is well worth a read. I have pored over that speech and the backing papers..
Yes I read that and thought “You are a cheeky little man Mike!” Being kind to him. Huh.
http://www.fcbarcelona.com/football/first-team/detail/article/neymar-out-for-two-weeks-with-parotitis-mumps
The first team medical staff at FC Barcelona has announced on Sunday that Neymar will be out for two weeks after being diagnosed with parotitis (mumps), despite the fact that he had previously been vaccinated against the disease.
Waiting for the worlds media to be all over this just as they were with the ‘Disney’ outbreak.
3…2…1…..
Of course you are. Because you can see connections that are invisible to most people.
Didn’t pick the sarcasm up then….
I see what is distinctly out of place
Most people do not know their arse from their elbow due to laziness. It would take no special powers of observation to see such connections
Keep missing the point though by all means
A high profile sportsman gets an illness having been vaccinated for said illness
In a sane world there would be media clamoring all over this wanting to know why the vaccine failed
I reckon even the simpletons are seeing where this is headed
Macbeth.
Doctors are the biggest drug pushers on earth
That puts them on the payroll of the drug companies
Macbeth.
how many more prescriptions till you get that holiday in Fiji Doc ?
or is it the golf clubs you want ?
Already had my holiday in Fiji this year thanks.
Rumpelstiltskin
Herr korbes !
how many fluroxotine/xenical scripts did you have write for that ?
or is it sandoz doing the Fiji promo this year ?
You can get xenical from the chemist and there’s no such thing as fluroxetine.
But good on you for trying.
fluoxetine
that better ?
I think the total sales of fluoxetine in NZ would amount to a couple of hundred thousand dollars not sure why anyone would get excited about that.
Hardly ever see pharmaceutical reps anymore, as I said good on you for trying..
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/under-the-influence/
Billy Tauzin, ladies and gentleman
Macbeth
CDC ADVISORY
Two doses of mumps vaccine are 88% (range 66% to 95%) effective at preventing the disease; one dose is 78% range (49% to 91%) effective. The first vaccine against mumps was licensed in the United States in 1967, and by 2005, high two-dose childhood vaccination coverage reduced disease rates by 99%.
Like any vaccine it’s not 100% effective. Only 99%. He is the 1%. Not having a vaccine is effective 0% of the time in protecting people.
Anti-vaccination nutjobs might disagree.
Like any vaccine it’s not 100% effective. Only 99%. He is the 1%.
Another very farken stoopid parrot
Your comprehension of the cut and paste is laughable – it’s as if you didn’t even read it before you added your own comment
Jesus christ that is moronic
you haven’t made an actuall argument there.
I had no intention of doing so
Not having a vaccine is effective 0% of the time in protecting people.
There is no point in responding to statements such as that in anything which resembles , serious
Realblue was either not being serious, or is unable to comprehend the mistakes in the words he/she used, that were not part of the cut and paste
Macbeth
Have you seen the Akira Kurosawa version of MacB? Fucking awesome, not least of which the infamous dagger being replaced by a nine foot lance. 🙂
Haven’t seen it – i’ll make a point of trying to get it out.
Polanski’s version from 1971 is good and I hear Orson Welles does a great version from the 40s
Kurosawa’s version from the fifties had the English language title “Throne of Blood”.
Ian McKellan’s Richard III was damned good, and Anthony Hopkins in Titus Andronicus puts the SAW franchise to shame, lol
@weka.. it never does hence my version of DNFTT.
🙂 I wish others would follow suit 😉
Two words you clearly have no idea the meaning of…
Irony
Troll-
Odds on , it is an age / generational barrier which prevents you from understanding the meaning or application of either of those words
Punch on old boy, punch on
http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/1373326028_macbeth-1948-08-g.jpg
Your stats say differently.
BTW I don’t know about you, but I have an immune system, and once it has reacted to mumps, it provides 100% life long effective and superior protection, unlike your “vaccinations”.
You religious/zealot types should really ease off on your swallowing of doctrine.
Of course, that “reaction” can include swollen nuts, fever, acute abdominale pain and vomiting, encephalitis, and passing it on to someone else who has a worse reaction than your own, such as permanently decreased fertility or death.
But yeah, 88% efficacy puts him in the 12%, not 1%. I wonder if the person he caught it from was vaccinated? The odds are against it.
and that 88% number appears to dive over time. Again, an example which suggests that vaccinations push the body’s immune system in very different ways to natural exposure, provides much less protection and creates physiological results that are far different. And science cannot explain why.
And if we go with all of that bullshit, the fact remains that the science can explain how much safer the vaccine is than “natural exposure”. Your preference is akin to “we had to seriously increase the chances of destroying the village in order to save it”.
*Shrug*
jab yourself up mate, ain’t stopping you
no, you’re most definitely not.
If you knew what you were talking about, you might have.
the fact remains that the science can explain how much safer the vaccine is than “natural exposure”
No, it fucken, cannot.
Take the expected incidence in a non-vaccinated population, apply the efficacy rate and the averse reaction rate, subtract one from the other, and Bob’s your uncle.
In short: Oh yes it can.
Now bring on Buttercup and Widow Twanky.
More anti-science waffle and lies from deleted.
CV you are the kind of idiot that would recommend all people should be subjected to the infectious disease rather than be vaccinated, thank goodness you’ll never be in a position to make that decision for anyone else apart from yourself.
Please be specific – you called my “waffle” anti-science – justify your statement by pointing out which of my statements you deem as “anti-science”.
And please, don’t put words in my mouth as to what I would and wouldn’t advocate. Again, you generally do not make lazy arguments, don’t start now.
Questioning current day givens in science always has to be done, whether you like it or not.
“Again, an example which suggests that vaccinations push the body’s immune system in very different ways to natural exposure, provides much less protection and creates physiological results that are far different.”
Utter and absolute BS.
“And please, don’t put words in my mouth as to what I would and wouldn’t advocate.”
You have repeatedly posted on this blog anti-vaccination messages which have relied on information that is a best dubious, I would seriously doubt that [mod edit – an unspecified ‘they’] would approve of such statements by one of their members.
that seems like a threat – doc acting like a cock – strutting and puffed up – macfuckenbeth indeed
@ MM
[Sorry. Tired of surgically cleaning up the smeared mess from this prolapsed rectum. Entire comment deleted] – Bill
so you must have made an official complaint then seeing as though you are such an upstanding citizen and all
More anti-science waffle and lies from [sorry. deleted].
What a fucken corrupted souled out drug pushing wanker you are.
Macbeth
[You’re gone and hit moderation until you grow up and undertake to desist from making comments that – 1. point to a persons real identity and -2. quit with the veiled threats.
Now to clean up the shit you’ve smeared in comments above. Not. fucking. impressed.] – Bill
No, in a sane world everyone would already know that vaccines aren’t 100% effective due to changing conditions. Same as condoms aren’t 100% effective.
Unfortunately, there happens to be some really stupid people around who think that they are or that they should be.
The less charitable side of me thinks that failure in one is responsible for much of the moaning about the quanitified and well-known lack in perfection of the other. 👿
lol no, you didn’t pick up the sarcasm in my comment, then.
If you can point to a more demonstrably effective prophylactic against mumps than vaccination (with nothing short of 100% effectiveness in your alternative and a global lack of nutjobs saying it causes autism), feel free to share it with the world.
Can’t directly link to molly and weepus beard on my mobile. No not standards in ece but lots of bureaucratic paper work. We have to write loads of learning stories and take lots of photos to prove we are doing our job. Of course this takes time away from the children and this means less conversation with them which is how language develops. I also think all the photos may help them to accept a surveillance state as they grow older.
If I may say so, Fairy Godmother, if you think that photos and learning stories are only used to ‘prove we are doing our job’ then I think you need to go on a few courses and do a bit of research. Children’s portfolios, properly used are a very valuable learning tool for them and a source of constant delight.
Oh, dear me!
“Children’s portfolios, properly used are a very valuable learning tool for them and a source of constant delight.
Oh, dear me!”
Depends on the child, and depends on the environment.
Many home educators do this for a period of time so that a form of record is available for ERO (and some for personal satisfaction) but it usually falls to the wayside, and that energy and time is spent getting on with learning.
This is not true of all home educators – mind you – just a comment on the difference of making paperwork a necessity rather than an option.
Dealing with MoE you often don’t get to prioritise providing learning experiences over paperwork.
It does not depend on the child or the environment it depends on whether the teacher knows what the heck they’re up to! Grrrrr!
Environment can be powerful. For example, I know one family who is able to provide their children with guided bush walks, multi-day tramping excursions, bike trailing, interaction with computer and industry experts, experience of flying in small aircraft and regular interaction with overseas visitors from a variety of occupations. And this was all from a very young age.
Their learning experience was rich and varied, and in no way would be enhanced by recording it.
Other children, requiring routine and less disruption to their habits in order to progress and achieve, need a stable environment. The interaction with those teaching them needs to be sincere. Once again, not necessarily enhanced by constant measuring and recording.
Keeping records is an option, and can be a valuable teaching aid – but it is not a necessary requirement. But we are in agreement about the value of the teaching relationship.
Grrr, yourself. 🙂
An interesting exposure of “neoliberalism”
https://medium.com/@paulmasonnews/neoliberalism-system-first-ideology-changeable-2f0ade2aabcf
The author argues that “neoliberalism” as Thatcher-Reagan capitalism with small-state free-market capitalism is a sham, a public face used for PR and the reality is much cruder state cronyism – good old “socialise the costs, privatise the gains.”
neoliberalism … has been something like the relationship of the Ten Commandments to life in an Italian peasant village: a good idea but nobody obeys.
…
In 20+ years as a business journalist I’ve seen the proof of this so many times that I have lost count. In private the elite will come out with all the most destructive, vindictive and selfish aspects of the ideology. In public it’s a different discourse. The entire public relations industry at high level is dedicated to reinforcing both activities: the public propagation of the acceptable version, and the creation of private spaces where the esoteric truth can be spoken, and crucial differences of emphasis or strategy debated.
No surprises of course, but nice to see see it mapped out coherently and concisely. The author notes that the system is under continual evolution.
In essence, these thugs don’t want a small state, they want the state to be an extraction industry and to do so, it must remain large and powerful. In such a context, it’s no surprise that those who profess “libertarian” principles always default to the most authoritarian stances when “order” is challenged.
For example, when Hoots, who professes admiration of Thatcher’s public ideology of freedom privately tries to organise with his friend Cactus Kate the murder of Nicky Hager.
Yep they need the state, and they need it to work hand in hand with the banksters and trans national corporations.
Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.
Once you scratch the surface though it the nastiest of men doing the nastiest things to the rest of the world for the basest of motives – greed.
http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/more-details-coming-in-conservatives-saga/
*I’m off to get a bucket of popcorn for this one.
I wonder if CC will have to issue another booklet, or perhaps “Mr X” will do a 30 second television spot.
[lprent: Quote material so that it doesn’t look like your words. I have done it for you using the blockquote tags. You can do it simply using quotation marks. But don’t let me see you plagiarizing again. It violates copyrights beyond fair use and even short news pieces make you fraudulently look more intelligent. Which says something about your very low standard. ]
This is just making Craig’s point for him. In fact ‘dirt’ flung his was is useful to his case. Want to lay bets as to who is behind this?
Yeah, it has that confused bullshit based on rabid divorced from facts (10% fact and 90% lying) signature that we have all come to know and detest. The real question is who paid for it this time?
The same person who paid for all the other times?
Or the same national organisation.
Couldn’t have happened to a more confused bunch: The Confusitive Party.
First their ex-leader forgets the bit about covetting thy former staffer, then misrepresents “Thou shall not bear false witness” as a concept to direct at others but never yourself, then by-passes “Do not oppose evil… turn the other cheek…” to publish and distribute a pamphlet on the evil of Stringer, Slater et. al. , and all within what appears to be an environment where all of them are terrified that anyone anywhere will accuse them of being less than perfect in the tiniest way, thus losing the “esteem” of their “peers”.
It’s a good thing “god is dead” because otherwise he wouldn’t be very pleased.
So hes going to offer proof as opposed to CCs allegations
Mind you you theres also this:
On Wednesday 29th July at 2.30pm Colin Craig held a press conference and released a defamatory 12-page magazine called “Dirty Politics,” announcing he would be suing three men: John Stringer ($600,000); Cameron Slater ($650,000); Jordan Williams ($300,000).
He said on Thursday 30th June on various radio and TV shows, that he would file legal papers “within 48 hours.”
So thats nearly two weeks and waiting…
http://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/colin-craig-accused-of-electoral-fraud-2015081014?ref=RLrotator#axzz3iNOV1MTp
Oops a daisy
Oh noes!, bus ticket being moistened…..
Seen this?
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/peters-fed-farmers-too-cosy-govt-help-farmers-176862?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NBR%2520Heads%2520Up
Peters: Fed Farmers too cosy with govt to help farmers
“……
MICHAEL What about TPP? Let’s look at TPP. How crucial is that for dairy farmers? Hold on.
WINSTON Well, I can explain this to you. No, no, we’re going to have a fair amount of debate here.
MICHAEL We will. Dr Rolleston, TPP – is that something that your members see as essential to growing dairy, to getting access to more markets, to really digging your way out of this hole?
WILLIAM Yes, but it needs to be a good-quality agreement, and, you know, I think when we’ve looked back at the free trade deals that we’ve done around the world, we have a pretty good set of negotiators and we’ve driven a pretty hard bargain. So I see that TPP is a huge opportunity for us, but it does need to be a good-quality deal.
WINSTON Look, there’s a classic statement of someone who’s meant to represent the farming community. We went into Korea, and they secured a tariff against us at 176% permanently against our products above 2000 tons. If he thinks that’s a high-quality deal, then I’m afraid we’re talking to the wrong industry here. But we’re not in there – that’s the point. They went into Korea and did that. It was a shocking deal. And now that we’re prepared to trade our future way, our export and farming future way in a so-called free trade deal. Now, the reality is that for other reasons, it failed. But they are prepared to go down that track all the way, even when we’re in the middle of a crisis. And sir, I’m not panicking. The reality is it is absurd when we don’t actually do something, and the range of those things could have been done a long time ago.
MICHAEL What about Russia? That’s obviously something you think that Fonterra dairy farmers can make greater gains into Russia. Andrew Little doesn’t like that; why do you?
WINSTON Well, because it’s the world’s second biggest dairy importer. No, we haven’t got sanctions against them at all.
………
_______________________________________________________________________________
Penny Bright
Labour would be misguided to oppose NZ dairy exports into Russia.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11493803
“They are not jay-walkers,” he said. “Some are facing 10 or 15 years. But they’re not lying,” he said.
Yeah right but seriously hes going about this the wrong, voters don’t care about prisoners so if he wants traction on this he needs to stop with the prisoners and instead focus on the guards safety and/or costs over runs
Maybe Dukeofurl will buy me one of these 😉
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13584434.The_weird_world_of_Nicola_Sturgeon_fan_merchandise/
“We have had a few negative comments, with people saying she’s not like Che Guevara, but it’s just a bit of fun and that image means lots of different things to different people. It must be strange for Nicola Sturgeon to see all this stuff on the internet, but it just shows how popular she is and it’s fantastic for little businesses like mine.”
The precautionary principle is not a crock of shit, though your claiming it is reveals an intolerant position from you. Where the likelihood of something occurring cannot be 100% determined but the potential harm that could come from it is significant, the precautionary principle is a very valuable safeguard against disaster. I’m ignoring your “Muslim” analogy, as it is charged with its own issues – if you want to talk GMO, let’s use GMO as the example. Your equating of “domestication” with genetic engineering though, is a crock, to use your phraseology. You know as well as I, that there is a profound difference between conventional plant and animal breeding and the insertion of genetic material using modern genetic engineering methods. Your attempt to blend the two techniques is lame. The rest of your 6:39 comment has too little value for me to comment on.
I totally agree, Robert. Plus tests regarding safety of GM crops should be designed and carried out by scientists who are totally independent of the corporations producing these crops. I don’t trust the data that is put out by these corporations. Precaution is paramount.
Have a read of this,article about GM soya bean crops planted in Argentina and the results as seen FIRST HAND by an Aljazeera journalist, Glenn Ellis. A short excerpt:
“Then we met Nadia Perez, a delightful little girl with a winning smile, who is confined to a wheel chair. She suffers from adversely evolving encephalopathy. Sadly her condition is progressive. Viviana, her mother is desperate. “There’s no treatment, but the doctor says, ‘Don’t give up hope.’ Maybe they’ll develop a new treatment, if not in Argentina, then abroad. I don’t care if it’s abroad, I just want a treatment: A treatment, a drug, anything.”
We were to meet many such children before returning to the doctor’s surgery that evening. Here she showed me a computer chart containing two steeply climbing graphs. One represented the increase in soya plantations over the last 15 years while the other illustrated the rise in the number of birth malformations across the province during the same time. It was startling; virtually a mirror image. “I have practiced medicine here for 30 years,” she told me, “20 years ago we never saw malformations.”
Doctor Seveso’s assertion that glyphosate based pesticide was responsible for what she referred to as ‘an epidemic of birth malformations’ is supported by Argentina’s leading embryologist, Professor Andres Carrasco, who runs the Molecular Embryology Laboratory at the University of Buenos Aires. Carrasco observed a link between glyphosate and malformations under laboratory conditions some two years ago.”
NZ would be crazy to allow these crops into NZ.
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/peopleandpower/2013/03/201331313434142322.html
Have you considered the possibility that pesticide being bad for people isn’t relevant to the question of whether genetic engineering is bad for people? Also, that no-one’s suggesting growing GE soy here (except maybe some nutcase vegans), but our forestry industry could benefit greatly from GE if hippies and religion enthusiasts would stop with the scare-mongering?
I realise that there are several issues involved, PM.
Pesticide, GM in food and GM in non foods and in animal feed are separate issues.
The problems of the spread of pollen by wind and insects makes containment difficult. There are also issues involved with whether food containing GM should be labelled. Other countries are considering these issues and the effects on the reputation of their existing crops should they open up to GMOs.
Here is the anti GMO
Sorry, Monsanto: Scotland to Officially Ban the Growing of GMO Crops – See more at: http://althealthworks.com/7321/scotland-offiicially-bans-gmos-vows-to-protect-countrys-beautiful-natural-environment/#sthash.eFOsl5Ca.dpuf
and the pro GMO
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/farmers-alarmed-at-snp-pledge-to-ban-gm-crops-1-3853361
There needs to be a lot of discussion needed and the last thing that we need is to have the likes of Monsanto being allowed to ride roughshod over NZ by a govt that is only interested in quick money with no regard to the long term consequences.
New Zealand’s forestry issue isn’t not being able to grow trees fast enough, we’ve got some of the fastest growing pine trees in the world. So we already have competitive advantage there. Our issue is having a market to sell the wood to and being able to add dollar value onto the product before it leaves the country. Closed timber mills and factories that create finished products are the more obvious issue.
@Tautoko Manga Mata
Thanks for valuable background on Argentina. Frightening. Will our government follow. Well its war I think, and the leaders always stay behind the lines and well back as they are too important to lose.
In the meantime our bees have another disease that has caused them to clear out of their hives an only the queen and the new uninfected baby bees hatch and struggle on. The feeling is that it their systems are weakened by a combined assault of things probably including GM.
I just flicked onto the post Robert and you are being impassioned to somebody but I don’t have a clue as to whom. You have not clicked on a reply button and I can’t be faffed to look all through the above comments.
Stems from my comment 8. Robert Guyton’s reply went to end so I just carried on from his comment. Robert was replying to Psycho Milt.
Todays GM news:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/scientists-sound-alarm-over-supercharged-gm-organisms-which-could-spread-in-the-wild-and-cause-environmental-disasters-10434010.html
Sorry, Greyshark, I’ve been busy outside amongst my GE-free trees. I was debating further back in the thread and mis-placed that comment out of context. The suggestion that GE-crops, be they trees, soya bean, maize or whatever, go hand-in-hand with increased pesticide use is significant. The Herbicide-tolerant swedes that last year killed hundreds of dairy cows in Southland, while arguably not GMO , created the opportunity for farmers to use Telar, where before they couldn’t, right across the region. Telar is powerful and long-lasting and, get this, its active ingredient is BANNED from use in parts of China! China, where caution around pesticides,herbicides, fungicides, nematicides, molluscasides etc, etc is hardly a feature. Southland lowered its standards dramatically there, resulting in those deaths and disfigurements. This is the territory we are venturing into with GMO and their associated cultures, in my view.
Robert G
You are very civil. I should know better than to complain now iI remember it means usually that some comment has removed which munts the system. What controls do concerned citizens have over these neanderthals that want to use this killer stuff? Put a curse on them and all their kind? Physically stop them? Get run over with them let off on an excuse? Have to march and get bashed over the head by perlice batons? All of the above? And that presumes that the governing bodies are not ready to subject themselves to thought, statistics and scenarios that are already on the scene – bees, cows dying.
(And I believe that neanderthals were cleverer than we have given them credit for. Better than the present day people willing to damage the environment because it isn’t allowed to ponder and be doubtful in their business and social circles. Thinking positively, acting energetically, can change flawed product into gold – magical thinking.)
Those old Griims fairy tales – they are really analogies. Today’s Rumplestiltskins will steal away our future hopefully healthy babies so that straw can be turned into gold.
‘All this must be spun into gold before morning, as you love your life.’
http://www.mordent.com/folktales/grimms/rumplestiltskin/
Greywarshark – I’m with you in giving the Neanderthals credit where it’s rarely given. Whoever we were when we co-existed here for the 3 000 000 years before agriculture reared its head, we did well not to destroy the place. !0 000 years since the grain silos went up, everything else went down, including our capacity to make good decisions.
Talk of magic and fairy tales – now you’re gonna attract a swarm of Homo Agriculturalis (more a file than a swarm – bees swarm, Modern Man prefers the straight-edge). And yes, the bees. The place is becoming too toxic for them. They’re outa here.
And did you know, there is a tradition of making “gold” cloth from straw. The Grimms knew a thing or two and there’s gold of other sorts in those tales too.
It’s not about the giant, Jack – it’s the beans!
You are inspiring me Robert. Now I remember the story of the boy with the golden goose which once you touched it you couldn’t let go and had to run along with the pair. Soon there were a whole file of National Party grunts and villagers and oh dear the boy called John is running straight towards the edge of a cliff. There is a signpost there, is it Melling Place, no it’s Lemming.