Open mike 10/11/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 10th, 2015 - 87 comments
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87 comments on “Open mike 10/11/2015”

  1. Paul 1

    Leading news in Stuff and the NZ Herald.

    ‘Aussie cricket legend Rodney Marsh shunned signing a bat signed by Chris Cairns.’
    ‘Rod Marsh snubbed Chris Cairns’

    Aren’t there more important things for these clowns to be reporting on ……..

    Climate Change
    Child Poverty
    Inequality
    Unemployment
    Obesity
    Destruction of Indonesian Forest Fires
    Conflict in Syria
    Air pollution in Japan
    Fukishima radiation in the Pacific
    Loss of biodiversity in the world
    Water issues in New Zealand
    El Nino weather pattern…………….

    • tc 1.1

      Granny plays her part in dumbing down the sheeple and distracting them with celebrity sporty diversionary material along with NACT shillmeisters to supply the column inches of ‘national good, labour bad’ when required.

    • Morrissey 1.2

      Considering that he played with Dennis Lillee, who admitted betting on his own matches, Marsh appears to be a hypocrite in the same league as Steve Hansen, who had the gall to speak to referees about giving the All Blacks a fair go.

      • Te Reo Putake 1.2.1

        You’re a bit off beam with your criticism of Marsh, Moz. It was a single incident of betting, that both men were very open about within the team at the time and in public later.

        As I recall, early in a test match in England in the 80’s, the home team were looking so poor that the odds of them winning shot out to hundreds to 1 against. Lillee and Marsh both chose to put a tenner on it for a laugh and when Ian Botham turned the match around, the two Aussies made a decent profit which, in the usual Aussie way, went on the bar.

        That’s it. Foolish, but not corrupt.

        The point of the Marsh anecdote in the trial is to show that Cairns’ standing was damaged by Modi’s still unproved allegation. Just for the record, I reckon Cairns is going to survive this trial, with the charges ruled to be unproven. Reasonable doubt and all that.

        • ianmac 1.2.1.1

          Yes. After all the talk I haven’t seen any actual evidence. I can’t see how Cairns talking about match fixing is actual evidence that he did. As a part time watcher of bits on TV, I think Cairns will be Not Guilty.

          • Kevin 1.2.1.1.1

            I must agree Ian.

            I think he probably did do match fixing, but you have to be able to prove it. The witnesses for the prosecution have been less than stellar and all we have had is he-said vs. he-said.

            There has been no smoking gun, no proof of money changing hands and you have to remember he is not actually on trial for match fixing but perjury.

            I would be very surprised if he is found guilty.

        • Lanthanide 1.2.1.2

          Probably, but it’s very odd that all of these other players decided to gang up on him. For no apparent reason.

          • Kevin 1.2.1.2.1

            You also have to question their motivations Lanth.

            Why did McCullum wait for so long to report his conversations when the rules around this are explicitly clear?

            Maybe the captaincy of the Black Caps was more important…

            …and no one likes a snitch on their team.

          • ianmac 1.2.1.2.2

            All that the other players did was report conversations which is fair enough but in my book, not evidence.

            • McFlock 1.2.1.2.2.1

              If it was one, fair call.

              But reasonable doubt isn’t just whether an individual story is true beyond reasonable doubt, it also counts as to whether the amount of different sources and incidents could reasonably occur without him actually having cheated even once.

              I saw a large cloud of smoke last night as I drove down the road. It might have been fireworks smoke held down by an inversion layer, or it might have been a fire. That’s reasonable doubt. Similarly if I saw a fire engine with hoses out, or a charred but wet couch in the yard. Any of those individually would have a reasonable explanation other than there having just been a couch fire.

              But if I saw the smoke, and saw a fire engine with hoses out, and maybe a charred but soaking wet couch in the yard, it would be unreasonable to doubt that I’d just missed seeing a fire. Even if I had not touched flames with my bare hands.

              I sure don’t know the outcome of the Cairns trial, but it certainly could go either way.

  2. vto 2

    Australia – the ugly country

    used to herd the aboriginal people off cliffs

    used to issue licenses for hunting aboriginal people

    as late as the 1930’s, your granddad’s family

    refuses to apologise for those atrocities

    .

    bombing the middle east for the last dozen years

    uncle sam’s little helper

    creating their own mini-terror problem to suit

    .

    Australia – the ugly country

    no problem whatsoever in beating refugees to death

    just like the aborigines

    .

    Australia – the ugly country

    .

    the right wing hate is being built

    Australia – turning up the hate

    .

    pure ugly

    • Chooky 2.1

      +100…while I know very good caring sophisticated Australians well integrated and very appreciative of the spirituality and arts of Aborigine culture ….they seem to be a minority

      …this is a United Nations issue

      …and United Nations is where New Zealand and John Key should be taking it..if they respect the Treaty of Waitangi ?!

      ….imagine if Australians were locking up Jews and treating them this way?…you would never hear the end of it!…but if this discrimination and human rights violations is happening to New Zealanders and Maoris brought up in Australia ….at the end of the day it is OK?…. their value is less because they are not the ‘chosen ones’ ?

      ( I never did like the disrespectful derisory way Hone Harawira was treated by John Key and certain journalists for the msm)

      The Maori Party are hypocrites for supporting this jonkey nactional government

      • savenz 2.1.1

        Good point.

        ….imagine if Australians were locking up Jews and treating them this way?

        Ready to deport them back to their country of origin or imprison them?

        We have seen that before….

    • Murray Simmonds 3.1

      Yep, eloquence and clarity of expression are definitely two of his stronger points!!

    • miravox 3.2

      Only three countries still have the Union Jack in the corner? I guess if the PM said it, it must be true.

      • Lanthanide 3.2.1

        Australia, New Zealand, Fiji and Tuvalu.

        There are several other states, provinces and overseas territories that have it, but none are countries.

        If he meant “aside from New Zealand” then I think he might be correct.

      • McFlock 3.2.2

        lol

        so he doesn’t want it because it’s not distinct enough, and he doesn’t want it because only three other countries have it.

        • miravox 3.2.2.1

          I know! Lucky guy huh? he can put forward two contradictory positions and have both accepted without question.

          Having said that if there was a challenge, the answer would be “but, but Australia!!!!!”

          $26m because the PM was embarrassed he didn’t know the flag that was being put on a wall behind him was the wrong one. *sigh*

    • Lanthanide 3.3

      Key sometimes finds it hard to remember the chit-chat and smalltalk that someone else has prepared for him.

  3. Tautoko Mangō Mata 4

    TPP- some useful info on ISDS
    https://blog.ffii.org/tpp-rigged-isds/

  4. Morrissey 5

    One of these days Jim Kayes will lose it and attack Paul Henry on air.
    It’s what drives me to occasionally watch this horrible show.

    Paul Henry, TV3, Monday 9 November 2015, 7:10 a.m.

    Anyone desperate or apathetic enough to regularly watch this train wreck will be aware that, aside from delivering poorly thought out extreme right wing rants and harassing his female underlings with suggestive and crude sexual remarks, one of Paul “Kill Them All” Henry’s major preoccupations is tormenting his sports slave Jim Kayes. This morning, Kayes rejoined the program after a few weeks away in England for the Rugby World Cup. Sadly for him, however, Henry immediately reverted to his cruel and contemptuous treatment of him…

    PAUL “KILL THEM ALL” HENRY: Right Jim, sports, GO!

    JIM KAYES: Thanks Paul. The New Zealand cricket team is heading for a heavy defeat in Brisbane…. [He drones on for a couple of minutes in a voice still bearing the strain of a cold he caught in England. Someone else has obviously noticed….]

    PAUL “KILL THEM ALL” HENRY: Gosh, Jim, you’ve almost lost your voice. But don’t think for a MOMENT that you can have any time off. Not for ONE MOMENT!

    JIM KAYES: [dubiously] Ha ha ha ha!

    PAUL “KILL THEM ALL” HENRY: [grimly] I mean it. You’ll get NO TIME OFF.

    HILLARY BARRY: I can read the sports news for him.

    JIM KAYES: Thanks, Hills.

    PAUL “KILL THEM ALL” HENRY: She can read the sports news, but you still have to be here.

    …..Awkward pause…..

    JIM KAYES: Anyway, I have some presents for everyone that I’ve brought back from the Rugby World Cup.

    He proceeds to hand out a bunch of deliberately tacky souvenirs to the people in the studio. He gives his fellow slave Hillary a fridge magnet.

    HILLARY BARRY: Thank you Jim. That’ll be very useful!

    PAUL “KILL THEM ALL” HENRY: Yes, yes. And what about ME? What have you got for ME?

    JIM KAYES: Well, Paul, I’ve heard that you have become a MASSIVE rugby fan—-

    PAUL “KILL THEM ALL” HENRY: Oh, no, no, no. NO!

    JIM KAYES: I’ve got you this.

    He hands Henry a thermos cup emblazoned with the logos of all twenty RWC teams.

    PAUL “KILL THEM ALL” HENRY: Oh Jim that is so SWEET. But I’ll never use it. It’s a simply AWFUL gift.

    HILLARY BARRY: I’ll give you five bucks for it.

    PAUL “KILL THEM ALL” HENRY: Sold. What an IDIOT’s gift! He he he he!….

    Jim and Hillary both look depressed and joyless. It’s only 7:13 a.m., and they still have more than an hour and a half of this crap to go….

    • AsleepWhileWalking 5.1

      Sorry, is that an actual transcript? Just…not sure.

      • proud poppy wearer 5.1.1

        An actual transcript from breen – surely you jest.

      • Morrissey 5.1.2

        Sorry, is that an actual transcript?

        It’s a rush transcript, typed out in a mood of pity mixed with fury. I missed out quite a lot of Henry’s kvetching about the gift he had received.

        Just…not sure

        One can always be sure of this with a Breen transcript: if it’s not verbatim—and many of them ARE verbatim—it will capture the essential flavour of the conversation it is attempting to immortalise. This one is accurate but not complete. I could have put in everything, but I just didn’t have the heart for it. I’m preparing a similar rush transcript version of this morning’s show, which “featured” a couple of really egregious guests, Rob “Fuckwit” Fyfe and Michele “Democracy Hater” Boag.

        • proud poppy wearer 5.1.2.1

          Cluck cluck..

          • Morrissey 5.1.2.1.1

            Shouldn’t you be pretending to care about the soldiers who were killed in World War I? It’s Remembrance Day, but you’re spending your time dumping inanities on the internet.

            I think you should tear up that paper poppy.

  5. Nick 6

    Refuse to watch or listen to the idiot, so my sanity remains.

    • Rodel 6.1

      me too… Watch who?’
      Seriously though-haven’t seen H**** since it came back from the ‘failure in Australia’. Miss him terribly.

  6. Jenny Kirk 7

    Pleased to see the feeds from other blogs is now back up again – thanks Lprent !

  7. Whispering Kate 8

    On this morning’s news Key’s solution to the Christmas Island debacle shows what a craven bastard he is. To compare it to our main high security prison and how Turnball would not come over and intercede if Australian prisoners were incarcerated there is absolute rubbish and pure ignorance. Parry prison allows legal representation for its prisoners and access to medical care. This is a concentration camp – being a Jew should at least give Key some sympathy for the prisoners kept on that god forsaken hell hole where human beings are holed up indefinitely. How many more disgraceful gutless decisions do we have to tolerate from this man. He is lily livered and Australia will not respect him for not standing up for our citizens. Let the discourse between the two countries get terse but in the end we will be admired for our courage to tell them this is not acceptable. I am a woman of senior years and I have more guts in my big toe than he has – god deliver us from people like him.

    • Chooky 8.1

      +100 Whispering Kate…well said !

      • veutoviper 8.1.1

        Ditto – well said Whispering Kate.

        Chooky – in your earlier comment at 2.1, you called the Maori Party hypocrites for supporting National and Key.

        Marama Fox gave a scathing interview on Morning Report this morning doing quite the opposite in respect of Key’s stance on Christmas Island.

        Some of her comments are included in this RNZ News item.

        http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/289267/pm-urged-to-step-in-over-christmas-island

        However, this item does not fully capture Marama’s full comments and strong criticism of Key’s stance.

        The full interview is well worth listening to here –
        http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/201778071/co-leader-of-the-maori-party-marama-fox-highly-critical

        Since Marama Fox came into Parliament for the Maori Party, I have had the feeling that sooner or later there will be a falling out between the MP and National/Key – and this interview has strengthened my view.

        • Lanthanide 8.1.1.1

          I’ve been quite impressed by Marama – more than I was ever was by Tariana, Pita or Te Ururoa.

          • Once was Tim 8.1.1.1.1

            Indeed! She’s well aware of the number of people feeling absolutely conned by MP, and who live in hope that they disappear up their own self-entitled, sage-like arses whilst they continue to struggle. It’s that whole argument Turia and her loyal servant Pita tried to convey: It’s better to be inside the tent pissing out, than outside pissing in. Most I know that voted MP at its inception would be quite pleased now to be pissing into their tent – UNLESS there is change (took ’em a while! but at least the likes of Marama seem to be aware now). It’s a bit like Labour needing to apologise to its base for its conversion to the religion of neo-liberalism they signed up to as a result of a few people sharing some fush n chups in a bubble.

        • tc 8.1.1.2

          Believe it when I see it as talk is cheap and you dont get to be a MP senior figure without the approval of a hieracy thats supported keys kiwi sell off.

          Talking tough is all the MP have ever done and Ive seen interviews where she is every bit as deceptive and arrogant as Parata.

    • ianmac 8.2

      Me too. Kate.

    • Ffloyd 8.3

      Heard english parroting our Present Moron this morning. Aussie’s place to deal with it yadda yadda. Pretty much word perfect with our little *do nothing it might frighten the horses* World Leader. I always allow myself a little snigger at that description of Wallykey.

      Cowards!!! the pair of them.

      • Whispering Kate 8.3.1

        Considering Ffloyd this government is so poll driven, maybe it’s time for a few polls to be done to see what the country’s thoughts are on this disgusting situation. I can see there would be something done smartly if the polls suggested the repugnance and shame a lot of citizens are feeling about the treatment of these people. At least allow them legal representation and medical care. There is a man imprisoned there with burns over most of his body who needs on-going care to aid his scar healing.

        History shows there has been shameful denial of people in need and the countries concerned have had to live with the history of it. The UK denying for political reasons the Russian Royal Family after WW1 safety and they were relatives of the crown – they all ended up assassinated. Turning a blind eye to the concentration camps in Poland/Germany etc in WW2 when it was nigh on impossible to not know it was going on by certain countries and they know who they are. We will end up with this shameful episode on our history records as well. How low this country can get is anybody’s guess but it can’t get much lower than this. Ol’ dead eyes sure takes the cake on this one.

        • mary_a 8.3.1.1

          Hear hear Whispering Kate and also to your previous post (8) as well.

          I have a feeling should the situation at the Christmas Island concentration camp become a multiple tragedy involving many Kiwis (and other nationalities) incarcerated there, FJK will blame Kelvin Davis for stirring up trouble, inflaming the issue! Dear Leader will make sure nothing reflects back on him.

          In fact Labour’s Mr Davis is doing a damn good job of keeping the rest of us informed through exposing (and enforcing more evidence of) Australia’s inhumane treatment of people, it considers sub human!

          Shame on NatzKEY MPs for not getting more involved, doing the same! Yet another reflection of FJK’s pathetic and extremely weak leadership!

          • s y d 8.3.1.1.1

            Look, JK has advised in the herald that this really just a bit of trouble at a resort…

            “These are people who are theoretically staying on Christmas Island, choosing not to come back to New Zealand…now the risk is that they actually damage their own appeals because they undertake other criminal activity when they’re there.”

            • Gangnam Style 8.3.1.1.1.1

              There are children & pregnant women (some with serious medical conditions, some fell pregnant due to rape) in those camps too. Its very unfair.

              • veutoviper

                I cannot provide a link, but it was reported yesterday (RNZ news) that there are men only at the Christmas Island camp – no women or children. That doesn’t make the situation any less unacceptable in terms of the treatment of those men in the past or possible once the camp is again ‘secured’.

    • vto 9.1

      Personally I find the idea that humans may have arrived here at different times, and from different places (Melanesia for example), very curious and interesting.. have looked at all the googly stuff on the net with the crackpots but I think there is too much to not look further.

      It has always seemed odd that humans never made it here when they had made it pretty much everywhere else.

      I have always wondered how so much tonnage of pounamu had been found and then made itself all around the country in just approx. 400 years (16 generations). With average age lower, and fewer people, and the time needed to tramp out west, load up and return, the maths just doesn’t seem to add up (not that I have weighed all the pounamu around the place).

      It is also curious that ancient Maori legend references people here on arrival.

      Early colonial observations also make for curious reading.

      It is a heated subject that much crap gets thrown at.

      Very very interesting though and it would be interesting to be around over the next couple hundred years to see what, if any, evidence may emerge…..

      ………………………………..

      It ties in with human anthropology advances o recent years which suggests that were many many species of human that emerged from Africa and wandered the planet. Just like there are many many species of other animal genus..

      And these could easily be from not that long ago…. after all we all have 2.5% Neanderthal makeup, the last mammoths only died out 2,500 years ago, we have legends around the globe of yetis, fairies, mountain dwellers, etc… Just like we have legends of floods all across the world … for which evidence exists of localised flooding / rising sea levels ……

      Our archaeology and anthropology is young and just starting out

      There is far far to go on this yet.

      • Gangnam Style 9.1.1

        The simple fact is if there were people here before tangata whenua then they didn’t leave any artefacts. & migration happened over 100s of years, so of course there are stories of people already here on arrival, generations in some cases. Some iwi/hapu claim mermaid ancestors.

        • vto 9.1.1.1

          “The simple fact is if there were people here before tangata whenua then they didn’t leave any artefacts”

          Not that has been found to date that satisfies everyone.

          Do you know that they still find similar discoveries in the northern hemisphere, after hundreds of years of archaeology? Example – recent discoveries along the northeast north American coastline has established that people from Europe had been there long time ago. “artefact” only discovered the last few years. Previously it had been believed that no other people had been there.

          We aint been digging long enough yet.

          • weka 9.1.1.1.1

            Many of the people who have created conspiracy theories around all this are blatant racists, so it’s hard to take it seriously. Is there any reason not to trust the people who know the science? Sure archaeology will evolve, but we can still use evidence as the basis now can’t we?

            • vto 9.1.1.1.1.1

              Yes I know the area is loaded with racists and other oddballs, but that is not a reason on its own not to consider the issue. It is a fascinating issue.

              And yep sure, the science is to be trusted and the evidence today. However, it surely cannot likewise be claimed that all is known on this today. Some of the things that turn up on the net around supposed evidence of early people are interesting.

              I just cannot get past the fact that digging around NZ’s past is only young. In fact, the youngest of anywhere on the planet (that is inhabited). There is no way we know everything yet.

    • weka 9.2

      another great example from Scott Hamilton of reasoned debate and evidenced based thinking.

  8. Tautoko Mangō Mata 10

    Select committee scrutiny of TPP deal likely after February
    Tuesday 10th November 2015

    The foreign affairs, defence and trade select committee is likely to start public hearings on the text of the Trans-Pacific Partnership and associated National Interest Assessment soon after governments sign the accord, expected by next February, before the process of parliamentary ratification begins.
    New Zealand’s chief negotiator for the TPP, Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade deputy secretary David Walker, told a briefing in Wellington the earliest US President Barack Obama would be able to sign off on TPP was 90 days after his referring to Congress, which occurred last Friday, meaning a February sign-off in Washington.”
    “While there was provision for reviews at regular intervals once it was in place, “there is no process for renegotiating the deal before entry into force,” said Walker. “People have to decide whether they are happy with the deal or not. It’s a big, complex thing.”
    http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/38466a95/select-committee-scrutiny-of-tpp-deal-likely-after-february.html

    Pity that the “People” that get to vote on it are the National Cabinet Ministers (Executive) who, of course, will listen to us!

    • ianmac 10.1

      In the USA the Congress get a yes/no vote on TPP, but in NZ only the Cabinet will. Is this right?

      • Tautoko Mangō Mata 10.1.1

        Alarm bells are ringing about the Trans-Pacific Partnership. Here are 6 reasons why
        Headings only… It is worth reading the full article.

        1. Intellectual property changes might be the “worst thing in policy that Canada’s ever done”
        2. Don’t count on Canadian manufacturing making a comeback any time soon…
        3. Canadian farmers could be getting a worse deal than first thought
        4,. It could put the health of Canadians at risk
        5. Two important words are missing from the TPP’s chapter on the environment
        Namely “climate” and “change.”
        6. Canadians haven’t even been consulted
        http://www.pressprogress.ca/alarm_bells_are_ringing_about_the_trans_pacific_partnership_here_are_6_reasons_why

        • ianmac 10.1.1.1

          Those same issues in Canada are our issues Tautoko Mangō Mata. Did you see the airing of those issues in the Herald, Dominion, Press? Me neither.
          Who will provide such a forum?

          • Colonial Viper 10.1.1.1.1

            Labour and Little could, but they’ve already greenlit the TPPA via 4 out of 5 of their “bottom lines”.

  9. Anne 11

    This is just awful:

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/world/289269/'they've-got-petrol-bombs

    The bulk of the armed detainees are NZers and Pacific Islanders.

    These people are essentially Australian citizens. Not all of them committed serious crimes and they have been punished and served their time. Their situation must be dire for them to be contemplating violent resistance.

    Kelvin Davis has just been there, and he has pleaded with this government to meet with him and listen to his story. They are ignoring him. they don’t want to know.

    What a comedown from the RWC. A week ago we all felt proud to be Nzers. Today I’m ashamed…

    • weka 11.1

      Fucking Serco.

      Mr Young said the detainees had tried to open negotiations with Serco, the private company that operates the detention centre.

      “There’s no negotiation, they don’t want to negotiate nothing you know? We wanted to get one of the boys to negotiate with them to see if we could resolve this matter and they don’t want a piece of it. They’ve pretty much said that they want war, so at the end of the day they’re declaring it. Serco’s declaring it.

      “It leaves the people in the detention centre with no choice but to just go on with what they have to do because at the end of the day what’s going to happen? They’re going to bash them any way. So if they surrender anyway they’re still going to get bashed. They don’t want to sort anything out .”

  10. maui 12

    http://energyskeptic.com/2013/cascading-failure-liebigs-law-collapse/

    Scary stuff, we are completely unprepared for any oil crisis. The thing that runs our society, makes most of our products, transports our food, fuels any economic activity could go away in a hurry, yet society still can’t talk about this “non issue”. It has to happen sometime, yet we’re completely blind to it.

  11. esoteric pineapples 13

    After (if?) the TTPA is signed, will that mean that Vladimir Putin and Russia becomes the default leader of the free world versus corporate hegemony?

  12. ianmac 14

    Justice Minister Amy Adams says she is seeking reassurances from her Australian counterparts that they are honouring their promise to help New Zealand detainees to return home as quickly and easily as possible.”

    But nothing about the current crisis. John Key has already dismissed any concern interest in that.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11542912

    • gsays 15.1

      cheers bill,
      in answer to the most common question re ubi,
      fund it with a financial transaction tax.
      bye bye gst!
      there isn’t a down side.

      go on labour, greens, nzf, maori party i dare you!

  13. amirite 16

    Key accuses Labour of supporting rapists, murderers and child molesters.
    This is your Prime Minister, New Zealand.
    http://www.inthehouse.co.nz/

  14. ianmac 17

    And on No Right Turn a column quoting the work of Andrea Vance on how taxpayers money is being used to gloss over the work of the Five Eyes Agencies to PR us into acceptance. Worth a full post here?
    http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2015/11/the-spies-pr-blitz.html

  15. RedLogix 18

    A very busy day at The Standard, but here is an interesting read on the TPPA and it’s implications:

    But George Kahale III is not one of the usual suspects. As chairman of the world’s leading legal arbitration firm – Curtis, Mallet-Prevost, Colt & Mosle LLP – his core business is to defend governments being sued by foreign investors under ISDS. Some of his clients are included in the TPP, and he says the trade minister’s critics are right: “There are significant improvements in this treaty, but they do not immunise Australia from any of these claims. If the trade minister is saying, ‘We’re not at risk for regulating environmental matters’, then the trade minister is wrong.”

    Speaking via Skype from his office in New York, Kahale thumbs through the investment chapter, pointing out the critical loopholes that leave Australia wide open. “The one where all the discussion should be focused is 9.15,” he says, referring to one of the “safeguards”. “That’s a very nice provision, which I imagine the trade minister points to as, ‘We’ve really protected ourselves on anything of social importance.’ I think that’s nonsense, frankly.”

    Here’s what 9.15 says: “Nothing in this chapter shall be construed to prevent a party from adopting, maintaining or enforcing any measure otherwise consistent with this chapter that it considers appropriate to ensure that investment activity in its territory is undertaken in a manner sensitive to environmental, health or other regulatory objectives.”

    This entire provision is negated, says Kahale, by five words in the middle: “unless otherwise consistent with this chapter”. “So at the end of the day, this provision, which really held out a lot of promise of being very protective, is actually much ado about nothing.”

    Kahale says many provisions in the TPP investment chapter are a vast improvement on previous trade deals. But he says all this hard work could be for nothing because of another provision. “Why would you spend so much time and effort doing a great job in negotiating narrow provisions to this treaty, when you have a ‘most favoured nation’ clause?”

    This is where things get a little technical. Essentially, an MFN clause is tantamount to a classic wipeout move. It would enable foreign corporations from TPP states to make a claim against Australia based on the ISDS provisions in any other trade deal Australia has signed, no matter which country it was signed with. That means it does not matter how carefully the TPP is drafted: foreign investors can cherrypick another treaty Australia has signed, and sue the Australian government based on the provisions included in that treaty. Kahale has described MFN as “a dangerous provision to be avoided by treaty drafters whenever possible” because it can turn one bad treaty into protections “never imagined for virtually an entire world of investors”.

    Including an MFN clause in the TPP was a “major mistake”, Kahale argues, and another reason Australia is still wide open to being sued for legislating to protect the environment.

    http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/nov/10/tpps-clauses-that-let-australia-be-sued-are-weapons-of-legal-destruction-says-lawyer

    And this guy is the expert.

    • McFlock 18.1

      sounds about right – smoke and mirrors and hope not enough people notice.

    • Colonial Viper 18.2

      TPP passes all of Labour’s bottom lines apart from regulating foreign property purchasers, according to Andrew Little.

    • Tracey 18.3

      Which is why Hooton had to be put on the payroll straight after the signing to spread is two memes… one being no one will sue lil ole NZ

    • greywarshark 18.4

      Red Logix
      I don’t watch TV or read thrillers. Just that sort of TPP stuff provides all the exciting gut knotting complexity that I can handle. Actually I like detective stories, usually the baddie gets caught, the policeman are reasonably honest, and there is a conclusion that is reasonably satisfactory. That’s wonderful reading, relaxing cf to reality.

  16. greywarshark 19

    Scoop announcement – SCOOP HUI

    This Sunday we are having a Scoop Hui in Wellington
    to get this underway. It will be the first formal gathering called together by what we are calling The Fellowship of Scoop, the name we are giving to the group of people who will work closely with and in the new Scoop Foundation and related ventures.

    Our meeting this Sunday will be an opportunity for us to get together, like-minded Kiwis who believe in democracy, freedom and the importance of a free media who are supporting efforts to ensure NZ remains an informed participatory democracy. We will answer your questions and try to workshop some answers to some of the challenges we face.

    The details are:

    Scoop Public Meeting
    Date: Sunday November 15th
    Time: 2pm-3pm

    Scoop Members and Contributors Meeting
    Date: Sunday November 15th
    Time: 3pm-4pm

    Venue: St Andrews on the Terrace, Church Hall, 30 The Terrace, Wellington.
    N.B. The entrance to the hall is on the right hand side of the Church.

    If you are in Wellington on the weekend and can make it along we very much look forward to meeting you there. Please bring interested friends, collleagues or family. There will be a Facebook event established for the event….

    • Tracey 19.1

      Am in Auckland but have been supporting Scoop from afar

      • greywarshark 19.1.1

        I hope lots from TS will do so. I’ve put an initial toe in the water, then a foot, but am limited for cash as no doubt many of us are. But hopefully we’ll get there as we know so well the need for them to develop to this next stage. I won’t be there as am in Nelson and can’t afford to travel much part from keeping up family connections.

    • Ad 19.2

      Wouldn’t ‘The Scoop Group’ be better?

      • greywarshark 19.2.1

        Better than what Ad? Are you reading ‘he Fellowship of Scoop’ and thinking it sounds
        twee? I am sure they will be interested in anything you have to contribute as a member of their financial support group. I remember you saying that a decent newspaper was needed and that TS could think of one. Here is our chance.

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