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Open mike 10/12/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:35 am, December 10th, 2013 - 138 comments
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openmike

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step right up to the mike …

138 comments on “Open mike 10/12/2013 ”

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  1. amirite 1
    10 December 2013 at 6:48 am

    Nellie Hunt’s family is not the only case of homelessness in Christchurch, there are many, many more. Where is the Government’s help for people in need? Where is the emergency housing?
    Shame on you, New Zealand government!

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9496170/Hunt-family-fights-on-in-Waltham-Park/

    • scotty 1.1
      10 December 2013 at 7:13 am

      Come on,
      Have you no faith in the market.?
      Any day now .
      You’ll see

    • bad12 1.2
      10 December 2013 at 7:48 am

      And so the tip of the ‘housing’ ice-berg becomes public, i commented a week or so ago after watching the shameful Paula Bennett at a ‘public meeting’ decrying the owner of a rack-renting Auckland ‘holiday park’ which houses 300 beneficiaries,(including children),in less than ideal conditions for amounts of rent that should provide luxury apartments,

      Bennett’s problem with the owner, He was creaming it to the tune of 30 grand a week all provided via His beneficiary tenants by the State,

      Meanwhile in other parts of Auckland un-Housing Minister Nick Smith is busily ripping apart the States Housing estate and flicking it off as fast as He can to private interests,

      i pointed out in that comment that Slippery’s National Government will not be happy until they see whole families sleeping rough in the doorways of our major cities,(while pointing out that in Hamilton there was at the time 120 State Houses triumphantly announced as for sale by Smith when the number of those on the ‘urgent’ waiting list of HousingNZ was 120 odd families),

      Understand tho, that the homeless family in Christchurch will not provoke this National Government into urgent action, far from it, everything they do surrounding the State provision of homes for poor families has as it’s final outcome the very situation that has occurred in Christchurch and if a ‘tent town’ begins to emerge in that City watch as National send in the cops to bust it up…

      • bad12 1.2.1
        10 December 2013 at 8:38 am

        A ‘hat-tip’ to the Maori Wardens of Christchurch for providing ‘security’ to the whanau in ‘tent-town’ Christchurch,

        Nellie and Her kids are the living face of the contempt in which i hold the Maori Party for sitting at the table from which Slippery’s National Government refuse to even brush the merest of crumbs in the direction of the poor,

        Where i must ask are the ‘gains’ for Maori from such a coalition arrangement, the Hunt family just the tip of the ice-berg of poverty and homelessness helped along by this National Governments trashing of the States Housing stock across the whole country while the Maori Party sits idly by in mute silence…

        • Rogue Trooper 1.2.1.1
          10 December 2013 at 10:04 am

          From what I’ve read, a HNZ subsidiary company is to buy Hobsonville Pt land from the defence force, to allow the PPP development of housing to proceed immediately. However, as Key campaigned that peppering this development with social or state housing was “economic vandalism”, only 20% of the houses built will even be under $485,000 to purchase.

          • Molly 1.2.1.1.1
            10 December 2013 at 10:13 am

            20% was intended to be “affordable/social housing” in the first stage of the Hobsonville development.

            This did not end up being the case, as you mention – a good review can be found in the Salvation Army publication Adding It All Up.

            Opportunities for local/national government to provide low cost housing with well-positioned land they already own continue to be ardently avoided by the use of PPP’s.

        • [email protected] 1.2.1.2
          10 December 2013 at 10:28 am

          I can remember when the “accommodation benefit/supplement” came in years ago to “top up” beneficiaries incomes. Immediately landlords put up the cost of accommodation. In those days it was only $10-20 a week, so, yes I am going back in time, but even then I queried how sensible it was to be passing over this money to private landlords. Within a few years, it grew to such an extent that people were virtually guaranteed an income by the state, and I’m not talking about beneficiaries, but private landlords.
          National were warned time and again after the February earthquakes that Christchurch faced a housing crisis, and what did Gerry do? Nothing, but blow alot of hot air around and deny everything.

  2. phillip ure 2
    10 December 2013 at 7:10 am

    tony ryall on breakfast television..

    ..ryall seems to have reached a stage of advanced-smarm:

    – where he is/seems unable to turn his (usual) semi-permanent smirk off..

    ..it’s not a good look..

    ..ryall..the unctuous one..

    (synonyms for ‘unctuous’..:..)

    “..sycophantic – ingratiating – obsequious – fawning – servile – self-abasing – grovelling – subservient – wheedling – cajoling – crawling – cringing – Uriah Heepish – humble – toadying – hypocritical – insincere – flattering – adulatory – honey-tongued – silver-tongued – gushing – effusive – suave – urbane – glib – smooth – smooth-tongued – smooth-spoken smooth-talking – slick – slippery – saccharine – oily – oleaginous – greasy – cloying – nauseating – sickening –
    – smarmy – slimy – bootlicking – forelock-tugging – phoney – sucky – soapy –
    – brown-nosing – apple-polishing – arse-licking – bum-sucking- kiss-ass – saponaceous – pinguid..”

    (ed:..i particularly like ‘saponaceous’..and ‘pinguid’…eh..?..)

    phillip ure..

    • Tim 2.1
      10 December 2013 at 9:47 am

      yea ‘pinuid’ is pretty good! – evocative of lime green and purple gingham table cloths – run up on the elna, as someone on here once suggested.
      He’s the 21st Century safari suit!

  3. swordfish 3
    10 December 2013 at 7:30 am

    Oddly enough (if the ‘latest comments’ box is anything to go by), it seems the Open Mike of 28 Nov (ie almost a fortnight ago ! ) is currently at least as popular as todays. Go figure.

  4. Molly 4
    10 December 2013 at 7:43 am

    Southland Times came up with a different editorial than the Herald, on the delegation to Nelson Mandela’s funeral. (Although I notice it couldn’t quite resist the small boot into Cunliffe at the end. The strain not to was obviously too much).

    • Tracey 4.1
      10 December 2013 at 8:01 am

      Haven’t read the southland one yet, so thanks for the link.

      Who does one OIA to find out if the PM ever actually considered taking John Minot, or said he did after seeing a few days of people saying he should go?

  5. Philj 5
    10 December 2013 at 7:45 am

    Xox
    Walking through the tunnel to Wellington railway station, the first time in a while, I was shocked, saddened and angry to see homeless people and Beggars sitting on the tiled floor, head bowed down. Is this the ‘Brighter Future’ we were hoping for JK? I am ashamed by our current government. It’s not working John, and you know it. Time for a holiday John? Merry Christmas.

    • BM 5.1
      10 December 2013 at 8:51 am

      Did you invite them back to stay at your house?
      Offer them a meal and a bed?

      • bad12 5.1.1
        10 December 2013 at 8:58 am

        That’s a pathetic comment on too many levels to list BM and you f**king know it, simply trite bullshit attempting to deflect attention away from this National Governments total abdication of providing the monies and services which would keep those who are least able to help themselves from being forced into such a situation…

        • BM 5.1.1.1
          10 December 2013 at 9:09 am

          I disagree, great opportunity here to contribute to the “village”

          Don’t wait for the government to solve the issue, extend your hand and offer those poor homeless a place to stay.

          With Wellington being such a thriving hub of leftism, I’m actually quite shocked to learn that there are actually people living on the streets, this is indeed shameful stuff.

          I think the left really need to take a good hard look at themselves, disgraceful.

          • bad12 5.1.1.1.1
            10 December 2013 at 9:24 am

            You get more pathetic by the comment BM, i doubt YOU if confronted by a homeless person would offer anything except your contempt so you really should shut the fuck up about things you obviously know little about and care even less for…

            • miravox 5.1.1.1.1.1
              10 December 2013 at 9:37 am

              Yes, BM would only offer contempt – typical of people who expect those with the least to give up the most for their fellow humans.

              …People are saying I don’t need anything but my own ability to earn a profit. I’m not connected to society. I don’t care how the road got built, I don’t care where the firefighter comes from, I don’t care who educates the kids other than my kids. I am me. It’s the triumph of the self. I am me, hear me roar.

              That we’ve gotten to this point is astonishing to me because basically in winning its victory, in seeing that Wall come down and seeing the former Stalinist state’s journey towards our way of thinking in terms of markets or being vulnerable, you would have thought that we would have learned what works. Instead we’ve descended into what can only be described as greed. This is just greed. This is an inability to see that we’re all connected…

              I hear that was a good show, The Wire

          • BM 5.1.1.1.2
            10 December 2013 at 9:32 am

            Just had a thought.

            What I think the government should do, is go through all the state house rentals and find all the ones that are under utilized
            eg: one person living in a two-three bedroom house, etc.

            The current homeless person can then be offered the free spare bedroom in the state house.
            A real win win situation, the current tenant gets a new flat mate to help share the chores while the homeless person gets a roof over their head and a dry bed.

            I might shoot an email off to Paula, I’m sure she’d think this is a fantastic idea.

            • miravox 5.1.1.1.2.1
              10 December 2013 at 9:42 am

              Maybe if it gets really bad, they’ll be after your spare bedroom, BM. I trust that fence is high…

              • Ennui …
                10 December 2013 at 10:20 am

                BM, you are one of a whole nation and society, one of us, yet you stand yourself aside. Does it get lonely being a miserable miserly spirit? Maybe you need to read Dickens tale of Scrooge. There is so much more joy out there you appear to be missing. Rich in pocket, poor in spirit.

                Still its coming up to Christmas, so I will offer St Francis prayer to you as a present that may help your state of mind.

                Where there is hatred, let me sow love;
                Where there is injury, pardon;
                Where there is doubt, faith;
                Where there is despair, hope;
                Where there is darkness, light;
                Where there is sadness, joy.

                Perhaps donate something of yourself or your money to the “beggars”…..

            • Molly 5.1.1.1.2.2
              10 December 2013 at 10:17 am

              Yeah… it’s a wonder nobody has thought of this before… surely there are no downsides…

            • [email protected] 5.1.1.1.2.3
              10 December 2013 at 10:42 am

              B.M.. – The S.P.C.A. have new premises here in Wellington. It’s bright and airy, comes with its own room, a free dog roll, and for you critters needing it, a rabies shot is on the house. I’m sure a room could be found for someone as extraordinary as you, B.M. Who knows, Paula might visit.

          • Puddleglum 5.1.1.1.3
            10 December 2013 at 10:58 am

            The inference from your comment, BM, is that individuals who are part of ‘the right’ are less likely than those who identify as being on ‘the left’ to take in homeless people as an act of charity?

            This, despite the fact – as your comment illustrates – that ‘the right”s solution to homelessness is personal charity.

            Given adherence to that solution, shouldn’t it be members of ‘the right’ who take in the homeless? Obviously, they aren’t, which would usually be called ‘hypocrisy’.

            Those on ‘the left’ – irrespective of their individual commitments to charitable efforts – are very often distinguished in their beliefs by the view that solutions to widespread social problems involve structural changes and collective efforts rather than through individual charitable effort (though these are of course commendable where possible).

          • framu 5.1.1.1.4
            10 December 2013 at 1:01 pm

            nah mate – this is pure deflection from you – and you, and we, know it

          • greywarbler 5.1.1.1.5
            10 December 2013 at 1:41 pm

            BM
            You are so cynical and mendacious. Even the Good Samaritan didn’t take the needy one home. He saw that there was attention to his needs and left money to pay for it. Helping someone who is in need is a good deed. It doesn’t require you to take them home and do the fairy godmother bit. Jesus approach was do what you can, it seems.

            But a certain Samaritan, as he travelled, came where he was. When he saw him, he was moved with compassion, came to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. He set him on his own animal, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.

            On the next day, when he departed, he took out two denarii, and gave them to the host, and said to him, ‘Take care of him. Whatever you spend beyond that, I will repay you when I return.’
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Good_Samaritan

      • Tim 5.1.2
        10 December 2013 at 9:59 am

        Well actually BM, my student neighbours have done just that on occasion, and some of us assist them with transport occasionally.
        It’s not just the tunnel either. One only has to walk from one side of the city to the other, and around the inner suburbs to see people (particularly youth) begging, and signs of their living rough.
        1st world country? My arse!
        Have you ever stopped to talk to any of them BM? – i.e. to find out their circumstances, or do you prefer to just make assumptions?

  6. Colonial Viper 6
    10 December 2013 at 7:57 am

    NSA analysts play online gaming for spy work

    Clever NSA geeks, paid to play world of warcraft and second life…but this is what happens to a mass surveillance state which has to justify its own existence.

    This is the USA equivalent of the East German Stasi who infiltrated pensioner stamp collecting clubs.

    The NSA document, written in 2008 and titled Exploiting Terrorist Use of Games & Virtual Environments, stressed the risk of leaving games communities under-monitored, describing them as a “target-rich communications network” where intelligence targets could “hide in plain sight”.

    Games, the analyst wrote “are an opportunity!”. According to the briefing notes, so many different US intelligence agents were conducting operations inside games that a “deconfliction” group was required to ensure they weren’t spying on, or interfering with, each other.

    If properly exploited, games could produce vast amounts of intelligence, according to the the NSA document. They could be used as a window for hacking attacks, to build pictures of people’s social networks through “buddylists and interaction”, to make approaches by undercover agents, and to obtain target identifiers (such as profile photos), geolocation, and collection of communications.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/09/nsa-spies-online-games-world-warcraft-second-life?CMP=twt_gu

  7. Colonial Viper 7
    10 December 2013 at 8:10 am

    Maybe Mandela is liked by the Right Wing because the Elite are still in charge of S.A.

    And lessons for NZ…

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/dec/09/if-nelson-mandela-really-had-won

    South Africa in this respect is just one version of the recurrent story of the contemporary left. A leader or party is elected with universal enthusiasm, promising a “new world” – but, then, sooner or later, they stumble upon the key dilemma: does one dare to touch the capitalist mechanisms, or does one decide to “play the game”? If one disturbs these mechanisms, one is very swiftly “punished” by market perturbations, economic chaos and the rest. This is why it is all too simple to criticise Mandela for abandoning the socialist perspective after the end of apartheid: did he really have a choice? Was the move towards socialism a real option?

    • swordfish 7.1
      10 December 2013 at 9:03 am

      Tiny black political elite as fig-leaf, otherwise little has changed.

      Interesting post from Chris Trotter on Bowalley Road today. He’s pretty much spot-on as far as I’m concerned. Good to see analysis of Mandela that moves beyond the mawkish and saccharine.

    • Draco T Bastard 7.2
      10 December 2013 at 11:19 am

      did he really have a choice? Was the move towards socialism a real option?

      Two pertinent questions and they lead to an interesting question: If a country can’t do what it’s population wants then who the hell is actually in control?

      • Colonial Viper 7.2.1
        10 December 2013 at 12:19 pm

        That’s been long answered – worldwide there has been a corporate coup d’etat, led by the banking fraternity. The TPPA is another example of this – the US gov is not negotiating on behalf of their people, but on behalf of their corporates.

      • Bill 7.2.2
        10 December 2013 at 12:37 pm

        Given that the ANC gained political power but ceded financial power to the ‘outgoing’ white elites who had ties and well established relationships with international financial institutions….

      • greywarbler 7.2.3
        10 December 2013 at 1:51 pm

        DTB
        You always put the easy questions first.

  8. marty mars 8
    10 December 2013 at 8:57 am

    Good on you Hone – leadership in action

    Mana Party leader Hone Harawira says he will go to South Africa this week to represent the anti-apartheid movement at the funeral of former president Nelson Mandela.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9497375/Hone-Harawira-heading-to-Mandela-funeral

    • Ennui 8.1
      10 December 2013 at 10:11 am

      Yeah well done Hone, but for me you can only represent me as a rank and file member of the protest movement. In any other capacity forget it. And on Hones example any other 1981 veteran who can get there should take equal standing next to Hone on my behalf. Just to make sure Hone remembers, it is not about him, its about “us”, that huge chunk of NZers who stood up together and said enough was enough. I don’t see a lot of them grandstanding or sliding in on the official events with the Nact photo op posers.

      • marty mars 8.1.1
        10 December 2013 at 10:25 am

        you could go if you want – it would be great you could travel around with Hone I’m sure he wouldn’t mind.

        ” He would not be involved in any of the official proceedings but said this would allow him to do and say what he pleased.

        “Honestly I’m just going to pay my respects on behalf of the anti-tour movement of 1981 in particular, and all those others who marched against apartheid over the years and have supported Nelson Mandela in his drive for freedom,” he said. ”

        Hone imo isn’t grandstanding or sliding in – he believes and then takes actions in alignment with his beliefs – I personally like that.

        • Ennui 8.1.1.1
          10 December 2013 at 11:10 am

          Lets hope Hone is “for real”. I recall “Hone Activist Events” such as assaulting engineering students with baseball bats. I recall him making racist statements, saying that pakeha boyfriends would not be welcome for his daughters. I for one have little faith in Hone. So Mars if that is the type gent you wish to represent “us”, count me out, I would rather be one of “them”.

          • marty mars 8.1.1.1.1
            10 December 2013 at 11:23 am

            Those examples all have a context that you seemed to have missed – bought the hook, line and sinker there I think bored – just like they wanted you to. Noted that you would rather be one of them – you’ve been going down that line for a while and fair enough, good for you. As for Hone representing me and those anti-tour protestors that stood side by side with him – yep I’m proud that he is doing so and he is exactly the type of gent that I align with.

            • Tigger 8.1.1.1.1.1
              10 December 2013 at 11:49 am

              My mother once told me that funerals are ultimately about the living, not the dead. She was certainly right in Mandela’s case. It’s all me me me from everybody.

              Here’s the real truth. Mandela doesn’t give a fuck who is there. And neither do I.

            • Ennui 8.1.1.1.1.2
              10 December 2013 at 11:54 am

              Good stuff Mars, we align differently. That is somehow very reassuring.

          • framu 8.1.1.1.2
            10 December 2013 at 1:03 pm

            “I recall “Hone Activist Events” such as assaulting engineering students with baseball bats”

            yet you dont recall how this happened or why? – therein lies the answer

            • Ennui 8.1.1.1.2.1
              10 December 2013 at 4:20 pm

              Hmm, the ends justify the means….so violence against the individual is politically correct if you have a really good reason? So what say I dont agree with you about frogs rights, my position is in my mind water tight, so to move it ahead I bash you. All good.

          • Murray Olsen 8.1.1.1.3
            10 December 2013 at 10:56 pm

            Why does what sort of boyfriend Hone would feel comfortable with for his daughter have anything to do with you? Were you stalking her, Ennui?
            As for the racist dickheads of the haka party, pakeha should have been there with baseball bats stopping it long before He Taua stepped in.

            I’m happy for Hone to represent me.

  9. miravox 9
    10 December 2013 at 9:50 am

    Meanwhile in the land of the guest worker, that certain people hold up as everything great and good about (neo-liberal) capitalist, dem-fac-ocracy… (especially since the celtic tiger fell over and is now limping)…

    Singapore’s prime minister has urged citizens not to show animosity towards migrant workers following the first rioting in 40 years in the wealthy state, which prides itself on being an island of calm in an often chaotic region.

    The disorder involved mostly Indian guest workers and broke out in the Little India district on Sunday night after an Indian worker was hit and killed by a bus driven by a Singaporean. Cars were set alight and 18 people injured as crowds hurled stones at authorities.

    It followed recent signs of tensions between citizens and the growing numbers of migrant workers, who have provided the bulk of the workforce constructing the country’s impressive skyline, transport and other infrastructure. About a quarter of Singapore’s 5.4 million residents are transient workers, compared with a tenth in 1990, according to government statistics.

  10. Rogue Trooper 10
    10 December 2013 at 10:18 am

    meanwhile Back at the Funny Farm, windows reflect the Shine
    Being the 10th, “you pulled the Deuce this time”. 😎

  11. s y d 11
    10 December 2013 at 11:09 am

    One unhappy guy in a hoodies can ruin a nice picture. No wonder he wants a personal photographer. Shoulda cropped.

  12. s y d 12
    10 December 2013 at 11:43 am

    im having troubles with TS today…on a go slow…dropping out…was this photo.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11169619

    if looks could kill…

    • lprent 12.1
      10 December 2013 at 11:56 am

      Database is running high on CPU and open handles and has been all morning. I can’t see any particular reason why but I suspect that we’re getting a good read of the whole system from someone. I’ll have a peek and maybe curtail their scans.

      • lprent 12.1.1
        10 December 2013 at 12:07 pm

        I’ve put a more severe policy on for bots, and switched from throttling to blocking. Doesn’t affect google because they do every properly. But it looks like we’re getting scanned by a fast msnbots and fast bingbots. I should see the open database handles drop from ~40 to something more acceptable.

        • lprent 12.1.1.1
          10 December 2013 at 12:59 pm

          Actually dropping an extra server in seems to have helped.

          • Arfamo 12.1.1.1.1
            10 December 2013 at 1:07 pm

            Dunno what’s going on then. It’s even slower for me than yesterday. No such probs with the usual newsotainment sites or Bomber’s Daily Rants.

            • lprent 12.1.1.1.1.1
              10 December 2013 at 4:02 pm

              I think I figured it out. There is something wrong on the VPN at the host site. The servers when talking to each other were having problems with routings (as far as I could see they talked via the US?). Shifting it to talk on non vpn IP’s appears to have largely fixed it.

              I have no idea if that is my configuration of theirs…. Job for later.

  13. Rogue Trooper 13
    10 December 2013 at 11:44 am

    Key’s Apartheid Amnesia Makes The Huffington Post
    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/yasmine-ryan/apartheid-new-zealand_b_4411734.html
    Top Man! he he

    • ianmac 13.1
      10 December 2013 at 2:31 pm

      Well spotted Rogue. Does not exactly make us proud our New Zealand Prime Minister. Queasy me.

      • Arfamo 13.1.1
        10 December 2013 at 2:34 pm

        John Key is the best prime minister of this country the United States has ever had. Or had over, perhaps might be more accurate.

      • greywarbler 13.1.2
        10 December 2013 at 8:06 pm

        I liked this verbiage from Cameron. Every word reverberating with deep emotion and sincerity.

        continually bears humanity ever upwards away from brutality and darkness and towards something better.
        ‘But is not so. Progress is not just handed down as a gift, it is won through struggle: …the struggle of men and women who believe things can be better, who refuse to accept the world as it is, but dream of what it can be.
        ‘Nelson Mandela was the embodiment of that struggle. He did not see himself as a helpless victim of history, he wrote it.’
        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2520808/Cameron-hails-Mandela-towering-figure-tweets-picture-reindeer-Little-Ant-Dec-Commons-tributes.html

        plus item –
        Shopkeeper was quizzed for eight HOURS by police – and had his computer seized and his DNA swabbed – after cracking ‘bad taste’ Nelson Mandela jokes on the internet.

    • greywarbler 13.2
      10 December 2013 at 3:28 pm

      RT
      That was a terrific piece on Key and Mandela. the Mighty and Mini-me of politics and leadership.
      Yasmine in Tunis wrote a tremendous piece for Huffington.

    • Daveosaurus 13.3
      10 December 2013 at 6:42 pm

      At least this oxygen thief remembers where they stood in 1981. There are none so bitter as Tories who find themselves on the wrong side of history.

      • greywarbler 13.3.1
        10 December 2013 at 8:00 pm

        Politicians that don’t command respect like Judith Collins demean themselves by throw-away remarks going on twitter such as the one about ‘Cunners’ – a weak sounding term coming from a loose thinking mind.

        • Arfamo 13.3.1.1
          10 December 2013 at 8:06 pm

          I notice the hairdo contributing his “catty schoolgirl” snide jibe as well. Christ, how the hell do these kindy-level thinkers ever get freakin elected.

  14. marty mars 14
    10 December 2013 at 11:58 am

    John Minto tells it like it is and thank goodness he does.

    Mandela brought South Africa out of the apartheid era of racial oppression.

    We should celebrate the life of this leader of the anti-apartheid struggle but we should never be blinded to his failings. He never claimed to walk on water and no one should pretend he did.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11169600

    Mandela was a great man in so many ways and as a paragon of forgiveness it is hard to think of someone who displays that attribute more – but he was a man and he had his mistakes and failings and it honours him to accept that rather than pretend he was a saint.

  15. aerobubble 15
    10 December 2013 at 12:32 pm

    National gives loan sharks free license for some to pray on the poor, well it would not do the same for the rich right? well, maybe that explains SCF, and the miriad of other finance companies gone bust. You see National don’t believe in protection, so what does it believe in? Well seizing assets gained from crime. Nice, since eventually we will start to revisit wealth accumulated via crimes against the environment, unless National’s detractors are right, that they are a rich prick party.

  16. Rosie 16
    10 December 2013 at 12:38 pm

    Superficial fluff for the day.

    Yesterday on Open Mike there was some discussion around the spelling of Russel Norman’s name. I go a step beyond that and have a pet name for him, which is taken from Russell Crow’s stage name when he was a “musician”. Rus le Roq was his name(not a fan of Russell Crow incidentally)

    Here’s Rus le Roq in action on Shazam in 1985

    http://www.nzonscreen.com/title/shazam-feat-russell-crowe-1985

    I like Russel Norman. I’ve heard him speak publicly and the way he spoke cemented my appreciation of him, where as I had previously been a bit uncertain. He’ll always be Rus le Roq to me.

    On the topic of spelling: Thank you phillip ure for spelling “eh” correctly. Not many folks know how to spell this often used word. For instance, last night on 3 News they had subtitled the speech of person featured in an article about a loan shark’s office in South Auckland and gasp! They spelt “eh” as “ay”. (not the first time they have misspelt eh either!) Even worse, the L&P advertising campaign is “It’s a bit different aye”. Aye is Scots for yes and is pronounced eye, as far as I am aware. Could be wrong. Don’t know what the world is coming to eh.

    *With apologies for my frequent spelling and grammatical errors.

  17. Travellerev 17
    10 December 2013 at 1:15 pm

    Ubuntu versus Wetiko or why it makes perfect sense for John Key to go to Mandela’s funeral without John Minto

  18. Rogue Trooper 18
    10 December 2013 at 1:46 pm

    Reserve Bank Folds
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11170067
    on LVR ‘speed-limits’ for new residential construction. (a little Ke a whispered in their ear)

  19. greywarbler 19
    10 December 2013 at 2:01 pm

    Rosie you’re always interesting. RT if they shoot messengers with bad news, what do they do for those with good? Think about it. A quaff of good ale sir, to your health or something.

    This is a nice bit of news, the most encouraging thing from a judge I’ve read for yonks.

    Oldfield successfully appealed against Home Secretary Theresa May’s decision to kick him out of the country on the grounds that his presence was “not conducive to the public good”.
    Immigration tribunal Judge Kevin Moore, in overturning the deportation order, said Oldfield was an asset to Britain.
    “There is no doubt in my view to your character and commitment and the value you are to UK society generally,” the judge said.

    Oldfield, originally from Sydney, has a British wife, Deepa Naik, 36, and a five-month-old baby daughter. He’s lived in the UK for more than a decade.

    The Australian swam into the path of the Oxford and Cambridge rowing crews as they raced down the Thames in April 2012 to protest against elitism.
    He was subsequently jailed for seven weeks.
    Here’s a different link to the same story. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/10506059/Boat-race-protester-Trenton-Oldfield-wins-bid-to-stay-in-UK.html

    • Rogue Trooper 19.1
      10 December 2013 at 3:05 pm

      as long as it’s not too hot, maybe somewhere Asian 😉
      comment #77, ‘think about it’.

  20. Pete 20
    10 December 2013 at 2:32 pm

    Interesting results from the census (excel document). For the first time, Catholicism is now the country’s largest religious denomination with 491,421 adherents. Anglicanism stands at 459,771. Both stood at over 500,000 each in the 2006 census and the country continues a secular trend – the largest group of all, those with no religion, stands at 1.6 million. So having a monarch at the head of an established church is going to grow as an issue over time, I think.

    Underemployment seems to be a trend too. 42,267 report their main job at 10 hours per week. 84,528 at 20 hours and 89,997 at 30 hours.

    There were 153,210 unemployed people seeking work, which rouhly matches the 150,000 people reported unemployed in the September Household Labour Force Survey.

  23. Pascal's bookie 23
    10 December 2013 at 4:16 pm

    Am I in moderation for a reason? Not disputing it at all, just wondering what it was.

    [Bunji: not that I can find…]

  24. Morrissey 24
    10 December 2013 at 4:49 pm

    LIARS OF OUR TIME

    No. 38: Jeremy Hansen

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    “I read a great column by Paul Thomas in the Herald….”

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    —Jeremy Hansen, The Panel, Tuesday 10 December 2013

    More liars….
    No. 37 Alan Seay: “You know, we respect the rights of people to protest….”
    No. 36 Paul Dykzeul: “No we won’t be changing the Listener; it’s got a terrific editor….”
    No. 35 Mark Jennings: “I think Paul’s a bright guy and he will be able to bring a discipline to his performance….”
    No. 34 Willie Jackson: “I thought we’d been sensitive with her yesterday….”
    No. 33 Supt. Bill Searle: “I think what’s happened here is the police officers have done their very best….”
    No. 32 Sonny-Bill Williams: “It’s good to get the win over Papua-New Guinea, a strong Papua-New Guinea side, aahhhh….”
    No. 31 John Palino: “Suggestions that I am somehow orchestrating some grand right-wing conspiracy to unseat Len after the election are so wrong…”
    No. 30 Alan Dershowitz: “I will give $10,000 to the PLO if you can find a historical fact in my book that you can prove to be false.”
    No. 29 John Banks: “I have nothing to hide and nothing to fear. And never, ever would I ever knowingly sign a false electoral return. Never ever would I ever.”

    No. 28 John Kerry: “…we are especially sensitive, Chuck and I, to never again asking any member of Congress to take a vote on faulty intelligence.”
    
No. 27 Lyse Doucet: “I am there for those without a voice.”
    
No. 26 Sam Wallace: “So here we are—Otahuhu. It’s just a great place to be, really.”


    No. 25 Margaret Thatcher: “…no British government involvement of any kind…with Khmer Rouge…”


    No. 24 John Key: “…at the end of the day I, like most New Zealanders, value the role of the fourth estate…”
    


No. 23 Jay Carney: “…expel Mr Snowden back to the U.S. to face justice…”
    


No. 22 Mike Bush: “Bruce Hutton had integrity beyond reproach.”
    


No. 21 Tim Groser: “I think the relationship is genuinely in outstanding form.”
    


No. 20 John Key: “But if the question is do we use the United States or one of our other partners to circumvent New Zealand law then the answer is categorically no.”
    


No. 19 Matthew Hooton: “It is ridiculous to say that unions deliver higher wages! They DON’T!”


    No. 18 Ant Strachan: “The All Blacks won the RWC 2011 because of outstanding defence!”



    No. 17 Stephen Franks: “Peter has been such a level-headed, safe pair of hands.”



    No. 16 Phil Kafcaloudes: “Tony Abbott…hasn’t made any mistakes over the past eighteen months.”



    No. 15 Donald Rumsfeld: “I did not lie… Colin Powell did not lie.”
    


No. 14 Colin Powell: “a post-9/11 nexus between Iraq and terrorist organizations…connections are now emerging…”
    
No. 13 Barack Obama: “Simply put, these strikes have saved lives.”
    




No. 12 U.K. Ministry of Defence: “Protecting the Afghan civilian population is one of ISAF and the UK’s top priorities.”
    


No. 11 Brendan O’Connor: “Australia’s approach to refugees is compassionate and generous.”



    No. 10 Boris Johnson: “Londoners have… the best police in the world to look after us and keep us safe.”
    


No. 9 NewstalkZB PR dept: “News you NEED! Fast, fair, accurate!”
    


No. 8 Simon Bridges: “I don’t mean to duck the question….”



    No. 7 Nigel Morrison: “Quite frankly, they’ve been VERY tough.”




    No. 6 Herald PR dept: “Congratulations—you’re reading New Zealand’s best newspaper.”




    No. 5 Rawdon Christie: “…a FORMIDABLE replacement, it seems, is Claudette Hauiti.”
    




No. 4 Willie and J.T.: “The X-Factor. Nah, nah, there’s some GREAT talent there!”
    



No. 3 John Key: “Yeah we hold MPs to a higher standard.”
    



No. 2 Colin Craig: “Oh, I have a GREAT sense of humour.”




    No. 1 Barack Obama: “Margaret Thatcher was one of the great champions of freedom and liberty.”

    • gobsmacked 24.1
      10 December 2013 at 6:41 pm

      Have you even read the column? It was indeed very good.

      Calling him a “liar” and lumping him in with Thatcher and Banks and all is stupid.

      • Morrissey 24.1.1
        11 December 2013 at 5:08 pm

        Have you even read the column?
        No, I haven’t, because although Paul Thomas has written a couple of good football books, and some entertaining thrillers, he lacks the knowledge and the seriousness to write about political or philosophical matters. His column is normally about as interesting and authoritative as the garbage churned out by Kerre McIvor (née ohoWmad) or Murray Deaker or Tony “Bootboy” Veitch.

        It was indeed very good.
        I’ll take your word for it. I’m glad to hear he’s finally written something worth reading.

        Calling him a “liar” and lumping him in with Thatcher and Banks and all is stupid.
        Oh come on, gobsmacked! Lighten up a little! “Liars of Our Time” is a wide-ranging series, taking in the psychopathic/fanatic (No. 25, 30), the moronic (No. 2, 4, 10, 18, 29), the professionally dishonest (No. 1, 3, 8, 20, 22, 31, 37) and the hapless (No. 26). There are several other categories I haven’t mentioned here, but you get the drift, I hope: some of the liars here are serious, professional liars, while others are harmless. Jeremy Hansen’s foolish laudatory comment about an undistinguished column-filler fall into the latter category.

  25. Penny Bright 25
    10 December 2013 at 5:57 pm

    In solidarity with the millions of black South Africans who are now worse off under the ANC’s neo-liberal ‘economic apartheid’ reforms – why I would NOT attend Nelson Mandela’s funeral.

    ANTI-APARTHEID BACKGROUND:

    In 1972, I joined the Halt All Racist Tours movement, in my 7th form year as an 18 year old.

    In 1981, I was one of twelve anti-apartheid activists elected to the ‘demonstration committee’ of the MOST (Mobilisation to Stop the Tour) – tasked with organising protests in Auckland against the Springbok Tour.

    The purpose of the protests, was to ‘stretch the thin blue line’ and through non-violent civil disobedience, make the 1981 Springbok Tour ‘un-policeable’, so it would be called off.

    This was in solidarity with millions of black South Africans, who not only did not have the same civil and political human rights as the white minority, but were also being denied basic economic, social and cultural rights.

    (The effectiveness of the sports boycott in putting pressure on the apartheid regime, is explained here:
    Desmond Tutu: Sports boycott crucial to ending apartheid

    http://www.tamilguardian.com/article.asp?articleid=3093 )

    However, the purpose of these anti-Springbok Tour protests, in calling for an end to apartheid, was not for the black South African majority to end up being worse off.

    But that is exactly what has happened in ‘post-apartheid’ South Africa.

    Why?

    Because the ANC government, elected in 1994, broke their promises, effectively did a 180 degree ‘U turn’ and introduced the same neo-liberal ‘Rogernomics’ reforms, without consultation or mandate as did the 1984 – 1987 Labour Government here in New Zealand.

    Sorry to be the one to ‘blow the whistle’ and ‘pop the hot air balloon’, but this wave of neo-liberal reforms started on Nelson Mandela’s watch, when he was President of South Africa from 1994 – 1999.

    Nelson Mandela supported privatisation, and it started on ‘his watch’.

    http://dspace.nwu.ac.za/bitstream/handle/10394/6332/No_42(1997)_Meyer_MJ.pdf?sequence=1

    PRIVATISING SOUTH AFRICA BY DICTUM: A REVIEW
    Michael J. Meyer
    (Department of Development Studies, University of North West)

    1. Introduction

    Mindful of the experience in the Third World in general, and Sub-Saharan Africa (SSA)in particular, where in some instances the privatisation of state assets was turned into a farce because of corruption, nepotism patronage and insider dealing, in South Africa (SA) the Congress of South African Trade Unions (COSATU) insisted from the outset that the privatisation process is shrouded in secrecy and should be made transparent.

    As a consequence COSATU objected to the African National Congress’s (ANC) adoption of a privatisation policy at its December 1994 Conference, which was endorsed without any form of consultation with the labour movement -the ANC’s strongest social partner.’ In order to forestall any unilateral action on the part of the ANC the labour movement insisted on participation and transparency, calling on the ANC to be accountable, not only to its allies but also the masses on any decision taken
    on the issue of privatisation.

    1 COSATU 6th National Congress: 16-19 September 1997, Book 4, Resolutions, Discussion
    Documents (1997), p. 33.

    Over and above the intense hostility and pressure, particularly from COSATU, which government faces on restructuring and privatisation, President Mandela intractably remarked, that:

    “Privatisation is the fundamental policy of the ANC, and is going to be implemented …Just because we [government and COSATU] have a working relationship, and they [COSATU] helped put us in power, does not mean that we are happy with everything they say.’ 49

    49 Sunday Times, 26 May 1996.

    COSATU-aligned unions reciprocated this statement calling for full participation and state transparency, failing which further mass action will go ahead if the sale of state assets were implemented unilaterally. 5O

    [50 Labour consultants Andrew Levy and Associates claim in their second quarter Strike Report, that the “Stage is set for a showdown between government and trade unions on the issue of restructuring…” They further claim that there is a strong likelihood of a sharp rise in strikes related to restructuring of SOE’s (The Star, 28 June 1996). ]

    This endorsed the threatening deadlock between govemment and organised labour.

    Referring to privatisation, President Mandela reiterated Mboweni’s threat, declaring that govemment will “go it alone” if labour, business and government could not form a successful partnership.51

    [51 Sunday Times, 26 May 1996.]
    _____________________________________________________________________________

    CENTRE FOR CIVIL SOCIETY RASSP RESEARCH REPORTS 2005, VOL.1

    Saranel Benjamin, Durban, September 2005

    “Introduction

    The ANC’s 1994 national election campaign was not only premised on delivering democracy and freedom to the citizens of South Africa but was also strongly rooted in the memory of apartheid’s denial of basic resources to black people.

    Riding on the crest of the Reconstruction and Development Programme (the ANC’s proposed economic plan for the post-liberation era based on redistribution of the country’s wealth to the poor), the ANC promised to right the wrongs of the past and to give the people what had long been denied them.

    Election posters blazing with the black green and gold party colours screamed out to the poor:

    “A better life for all!”, “Free basic services!”. “Jobs for all!”,

    with a promise to redistribute the wealth accumulated by the apartheid government, white business and the white population.

    The poor, trusting the rhetoric, voted in their millions to put the ANC into power as the first democratic government.

    When the ANC capitulated to the charms of a market-driven economy, the party ditched clauses from the Freedom Charter and the RDP and emerged with a macro-economic policy that was a ‘fairly standard neoliberal one”. 1

    [1 Adam Habib and Vishnu Padaychee (2000), “Economic Policy and Power Relations in South Africa’s Transition to Democracy” in World Development, (vol.28, no.2)3. ]

    The choice of a market-driven policy that would ensure maximum profit accumulation by the already rich was made in full knowledge of South Africa’s stratified economy.

    South Africa, writes John Saul, is a country where the “the poorest 60% of household’s share of total expenditure is a mere 14%, while the the richest quintile’s share is 69% and where, across the decade of the nineties, a certain narrowing of the income gap between black and white (as a growing number of blacks have edged themselves into elite circles) has been paralleled by an even greater widening gap between rich and poor”. 2

    [2 John Saul, (2002), “Cry for the Beloved Country: the Post-Apartheid Denouement” (RAU Sociology), http://www.ukzn.ac.za/ccs 8. ]

    The Growth, Employment and Redistribution (GEAR) policy drew from the main tenets of neoliberalism as installed globally with the main objective of creating an environment which enables maximum private investment.

    Hence GEAR proposed cuts in government spending to reduce the deficit, the introduction of tax concessions for big business, a reduction of tariff barriers (in the clothing, textile,leather and car manufacturing industries), the privatization of government assets (which included the provision of basic services), a reduction in state welfare programmes and a more flexible labour market.
    Adelzadeh 3

    [3 In Hein Marais (2001), South Africa: Limits to Change, (Cape Toen: University of Cape Town Press) 163] and Saul both agree that the ANC had “come full circle, back to the late apartheid government’s Normative Economic Model.

    For the central premise of South Africa’s economic policy now could clearly be clearer: ask not what capital can do for South Africa, but what South Africa can do for capital…”4

    [4 Saul 12]

    The ANC pushed for GEAR, arguing that the policy framework could help achieve economic growth, attract foreign investment , boost employment and increase socio-economic equality. the verdict so far has been resoundingly negative:

    “GEAR has been associated with massive deindustrialization and job-shedding through reduced tariffs on imports, capital flight as as controls over investments are relaxed, attempts to downsize the costs and size of the public sector, and real cuts in education, health and social welfare spending”. 5
    [5 Saul 13 ]

    This neo-liberal economic framework precludes the the development of any form of social security system for the growing band of unemployed, informal sector workers and the poor. GEAR argues for a decline in state expenditure and, in keeping with global trends, this translates into cutting back on state welfare programmes.

    The harsh effects of the GEAR policy have been felt most by those who came into the era of democracy poor. These were black, working class people.

    Most were black, women, urban and rural. GEAR has left the poor more vulnerable to increasing poverty and has debilitated most workers by decimating the industries they work in. …”
    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Through my involvement with the Auckland Water Pressure Group, I, (and others) made contact with some directly involved in the ‘social movements’, who were fighting back against these ANC-led neoliberal reforms, particularly the fight against water privatisation and the introduction of pre-paid water meters by groups such as the Anti-Privatisation Forum (APF).

    More information about the fightback by the ‘social movements’ in South Africa, is available here: http://www.ukzn.za/ccs

    “SEEK TRUTH FROM FACTS”!

    Penny Bright
    1981 Springbok Tour protestor
    ‘Anti-corruption/anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’

  26. idlegus 26
    10 December 2013 at 5:58 pm

    bryce edwards in the odt ‘i’m bored with child poverty’…well fuck you bryce edwards!

    • Arfamo 26.1
      10 December 2013 at 6:03 pm

      Is this the article you’re referring to?
      http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/284747/poverty-issues-boring-public-academic

      Doesn’t read like he’s bored with it, he’s saying the public is getting bored with it.

    • BM 26.2
      10 December 2013 at 6:19 pm

      He speaks the truth.

      Also people have become very cynical surrounding the media and the way they pimp out the “poor”.

      It seems just about every “oh woe is me story” they put out there is rather short on facts and long on bullshit.
      With message boards, blogs, twitter etc, it never takes too long before the real facts come out and surprise, it’s never anything like what the media say it is.

      No one believes anything they read in the MSM now, most people are like “yeah, yeah what a load of shit, fuck they must think we’re idiots”.

  28. gobsmacked 28
    10 December 2013 at 6:37 pm

    So it seems only 2 people from NZ can go to Mandela’s funeral …

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11170259

    Cunliffe should let Sharples go in his place. Good principle – and good politics too!

    • Arfamo 29.1
      10 December 2013 at 6:46 pm

      When the funeral is over perhaps everyone can get past their nostalgia and back to firing insults at each other about all the other shit someone else is always to blame for.

    • Anne 29.2
      10 December 2013 at 7:17 pm

      How did that happen? Positive gobsmacked wasn’t there with the same link. Unless he’s been a naughty boy and is in moderation. 😛

  30. Brett Dale 30
    10 December 2013 at 6:56 pm

    Nelson Mandela’s service is going to be stream lived on tvnz, Im guessing it will also be on BCC, CNN on sky.

    No matter who attends and who speaks, it’s history and people should watch.

    • Arfamo 30.1
      10 December 2013 at 7:05 pm

      It’s history all right, but after all the grand speeches extolling him and what he stood for, they’ll all go back to advancing the interests of the wealthy and powerful at the expense of the poor and their speech notes will just blow away with the wind.

      For what it’s worth, I reckon Key made the right call to include Cunliffe. No one will ever agree on who else would’ve been better. If there can only be two at the funeral the PM and the Leader of the Opposition is a good representation for this country.

      • Anne 30.1.1
        10 December 2013 at 7:11 pm

        I reckon Key made the right call to include Cunliffe.

        Yes he did. I guess he couldn’t do anything else.

        Hey Brett… what time does it start on TV1?

      • gobsmacked 30.1.2
        10 December 2013 at 7:38 pm

        I agree, Key was right to invite Cunliffe to be the 2nd. In fact it was his only option, politically.

        But Cunliffe could earn a heap of mana by giving up his seat to Sharples. Symbolism matters, and if another rich white guy steps aside for the Maori protestor and leader from 1981, that’s strong symbolism – and, more cynically, bloody good headlines in the clear contrast between generous Cunliffe and Key vs Minto.

        I wouldn’t blame Cunliffe for keeping his seat, it’s an occasion you wouldn’t want to miss. But there’s bonus points if he doesn’t.

        • Arfamo 30.1.2.1
          10 December 2013 at 7:45 pm

          Good point, well made. But on the other hand the reality now is that Sharples is part of Key’s government. It is better the Opposition is represented.

        • Anne 30.1.2.2
          10 December 2013 at 8:25 pm

          Looks like Cunliffe IS going to offer his seat to Sharples.

          However, Mr Cunliffe said he is considering giving up his place to Pita Sharples. “I think it’s important that a New Zealand Maori is represented and I think that he did a lot of work in the anti-apartheid movement.”

          http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/230389/pm-forced-to-cut-back-mandela-delegation

          • Arfamo 30.1.2.2.1
            10 December 2013 at 8:29 pm

            Far out. Cunners should just make the call and do it then, not talk about “considering it”. Gobsmacked’s “bonus points” is valid – Cunners would gain a lot of respect & support for this.

            • gobsmacked 30.1.2.2.1.1
              10 December 2013 at 8:34 pm

              Damn, I’ve just outed myself!

              Good broadband here in South Africa …

              • Anne …
                10 December 2013 at 8:50 pm

                The Radio NZ story has now changed to:

                However, Mr Cunliffe offered to give up his place to Dr Sharples. “I think it’s important that a New Zealand Maori is represented and I think that he did a lot of work in the anti-apartheid movement.”

                But no word whether Sharples has accepted…

                • Pascal's bookie …
                  10 December 2013 at 9:12 pm

                  RNZ reporter Demelza Leslie:

                  “David Cunliffe is on his way to meet the Prime Minister to formally give up his place at Mandela memorial to Pita Sharples. Will PM accept?”

                  Key’s advisers will be spewing. And the rumour is senior Nats (ahem Blinglish, Tau) advised to invite Minto and Key was going with it, till others (ahem Collins) said no way.

                • gobsmacked …
                  10 December 2013 at 9:27 pm

                  According to Hilary Barry on Radio Live just now, there may be places for five after all.

                  But in any case, Cunliffe is impressing the voters …

                  https://twitter.com/search?q=sharples%20cunliffe&src=typd&f=realtime

                  My fave tweet: Cunliffe offers place to Sharples, who offers it to Hone, who offers it to Minto …

  31. Arfamo 31
    10 December 2013 at 7:25 pm

    New Privacy Commissioner: John Edwards
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11170243

    End of an era I reckon. Marie Shroff has done an excellent job in the face of obfuscation and obduracy from bureaucrats and politicians.

  32. Pascal's bookie 32
    10 December 2013 at 7:38 pm

    “It was certainly a period of time where politics were prominent and I was fascinated by it.” lol

    • felix 32.1
      10 December 2013 at 8:01 pm

      Farkin lol alright.

      It was a remark who are from a man I found is bullshitting and I was be disgusted by them.

  33. Colonial Viper 33
    10 December 2013 at 9:49 pm

    Texas fracking quakes stirring residents and home owners fear

  34. Brett Dale 34
    10 December 2013 at 10:12 pm

    Dr Sharples and mckinnion are there?

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