Open Mike 11/02/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, February 11th, 2018 - 189 comments
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189 comments on “Open Mike 11/02/2018 ”

  1. The Chairman 1

    “Intensified housing, intensified issues.”

    The neighbourhood had deteriorated since the HNZ units opened in mid-2016, they said. The development replaced two older state houses.

    “This is absolutely a governance issue that’s got to come from the top . . . What I’m hearing is it’s likely to be [a problem] replicated in different places around New Zealand.”

    • savenz 1.1

      Yep, government policies looking at everything in insolation. You can’t just get groups of disadvantaged people and then push them all together and think everything’s gonna be rosy.

      State houses should be integrated into all housing and all areas rich and poor. Instead the government has sold all the expensive (rich) parts off and thinks putting up ‘social’ apartment blocks or hotels as social housing with large groups of people is gonna work.

      Not only has the social housing never arrived but it would never work anyway as quickly it would quickly become slums. All the new developments should have had to have 5 – 10% reserved for state or affordable housing as part of the consent and forced to be sold at a rate against the average wage.

      But the trick is of raising people out of poverty is actually to get upwards mobility and invest in the people themselves – decent schools, decent food and decent health and decent opportunities including decent wages and jobs that are secure. Hard to do that when you keep putting more and more people into the country to provide for with a falling base of income.

      In any society nobody is perfect – but in NZ the whole system is encouraging people to go backwards into poverty. Giving $30 or $60 a week more is a waste of time long term (especially if you have rising food, power, transport and housing costs that the government can’t control).

      If the government can’t plan for local people to get decent jobs or meaningful social engagement and become more self sufficient and be able to plan for their future and instead wants to pander to an ideology of selling off land and assets to the highest bidder (generally overseas folks) and letting those people bring in their own workers (aka 200 Chinese workers for the luxury hotel) then it’s a wasted opportunity. It’s taking away opportunities for local prosperity because the government has allowed a culture of getting other labour from other countries in so that the corporations can make more profit and then even giving residency or citizenship so that it becomes more people who need support.

      In the hotel example most of the locals are then locked out, as it’s being built and then when it is being run and finally the profits from it. The locals get the pollution, wastewater issues, transport issues and need to find more housing both to house and provide services for the new workers (temporary or not) working on it, as well as the hotel space being used for rich tourists providing no amenity or accomodation for locals in that prime location. It’s lose, lose for locals and win win for large offshore corporations.

      TPPA is being introduced to ensure it because a tangled web that is hard to exit from, even if the people vote against this model of inequality transfer from local people to big business.

      • solkta 1.1.1

        But if wages rise won’t that just fuel house price inflation?

        • UncookedSelachimorpha

          Potentially, which is why there needs to be other more direct intervention in the housing market (e.g. rent controls, state house building).

          • savenz

            @UncookedSelachimorpha, You can have as many rent controls as you like, the houses are not there to be rented because we have inward migration and a massive shortage to begin with. To make matters worse anyone in the world can buy our houses for whatever reason they like.

            Even with the new Labour policy foreigners are free to buy new houses, land and assets. So it will make little benefit and its too late anyway because it’s clear that existing housing stock is already been bought and regulary traded increasing the prices already.

            In Sweden they have rent controls which meant in some cases only 2 houses were available in a major city. People just would not give up their rental so no new ones ever came up.

            • UncookedSelachimorpha

              “You can have as many rent controls as you like, the houses are not there to be rented because we have inward migration and a massive shortage to begin with. To make matters worse anyone in the world can buy our houses for whatever reason they like.”

              Agree that the underlying problem is lack of supply vs demand, including for the reasons you mention.

              I don’t think rent control is the actual solution – but it would reduce the ability of people with money to exploit the current shortage to gouge tenants, at least in the interim while the supply / demand situation is sorted out by other means.

              You could argue that the situation you mention in Sweden is also primarily a supply / demand problem, not actually a result of the rent controls (rent control doesn’t directly create or destroy housing). Neolibs would argue that you must allow rent to rise without limit to encourage the market to invest in house building…but strangely that policy doesn’t seem to have fixed anything. People with money can just buy existing stock and start gouging, when there is a housing shortage.

        • savenz

          @ Solka Not as much as 70,000 new residents a year and 180,000 work permits issued with all those people per year needing to be housed on top of the existing people.

          The balance is out of kilter with massive demand for housing and services like transport and health and infrastructure like wastewater, while the ability for locals to afford to pay for that with in effect lower and less secure wages is not able to keep pace.

          More and more people will have to rely on benefits so when that is factored in it’s not very sustainable as a practise. Nor is pretending 1 hour of paid work a week is a job so nobody knows the true figures.

          • Craig H

            It’s not 70,000 new residents a year, it’s 45-50 thousand new residents, most of whom are already in NZ when their resident visas are granted.

            And most of the 200,000 work visas are working holidaymakers who travel a lot, so mostly use short term accommodation, not housing (mostly – some certainly rent houses, but most of them don’t).

            The main big number is 70,000 net migration, which is a huge problem and does have a big impact on the housing crisis since they do have to housed, but let’s not overstate the issue.

        • The Chairman

          “But if wages rise won’t that just fuel house price inflation?”

          That depends on how wage increases are structured, coupled with how well we improve housing supply.

          If wage increases are funded by slowing increases at the upper end of the pay scale, that will help offset inflationary pressure.

      • Molly 1.1.2


        Agree with your comments about looking at everything in isolation. There will be no effective proposal to housing all our people until this is acknowledged and addressed.

      • But the trick is of raising people out of poverty is actually to get upwards mobility…

        The only way to get upwards mobility is to have increasing poverty. For a few to be well off a lot need to be poor.

        What we really need is to have everyone with a minimum living standard. Access to the food that they need, a place to call home, interesting work available, a place to play, and access to healthcare. There’s probably more that I’m missing.

        Hard to do that when you keep putting more and more people into the country to provide for with a falling base of income.

        You’ll note that a few people are getting richer as the majority get poorer. In other words, a few people have ‘upward mobility’.

        If the government can’t plan for local people to get decent jobs or meaningful social engagement and become more self sufficient…

        Nobody can be self-sufficient. A person must live within a society, a community.

        • greywarshark


        • UncookedSelachimorpha

          Exactly. We need wealth itself to have some “downwards mobility” – instead wealth is the main thing that is moving upward, leaving most of the people behind!

      • Cinny 1.1.4

        +++++ SaveNZ re integrated housing.

        Mum took me out to Porirua as a kid to see Muldoons ‘think big’ project and explained why housing isolation was a bad bad idea. etc.

      • The Chairman 1.1.5

        “You can’t just get groups of disadvantaged people and then push them all together and think everything’s gonna be rosy.”

        Yes. Especially in large clusters, such as apartment blocks or whole suburbs. But even in smaller clusters (as reported in the article linked above) issues arise. Which then creates the NIMBY (not in my backyard) effect.

        Cinny’s suggestion of a live in manager may help reduce issues. But what to do with the ones that continue to play up? Sure they can be weeded out and moved along, but where too? They’ll still need to be housed somewhere.

        Another problem for the Government is if this discontent snowballs, it’s going to piss a lot of voters off nationwide.

        New developments with even a small number of state houses will impact on buyers desire to buy into these new developments, thus will negatively impact upon their value. Putting developers off.

        It will be interesting to see how Labour move to manage this fallout. Moreover, will National attempt to capitalise from it?

      • The Chairman 1.1.6

        @ savenz

        While improving peoples skills and education results in upward mobility. It’s low wages and benefit rates that keep people in poverty as not all are in a position to up-skill or work.

      • cleangreen 1.1.7

        100% savenz;

        National policy = encourages ghettos

    • Cinny 1.2

      This must be awful for people, was thinking about it last night.

      If there are social housing blocks, maybe there needs to be a ‘building manager’ living on site. Among other things.

      • The Chairman 1.2.1

        “This must be awful for people…”


        I see some were also upset about the two story building going up next door. This in itself is going to irate a lot of people.

        How Labour manage this growing fallout is going to be vital to their popularity come next election.

  2. Ed 2

    Sunday Star Times continue their investigation in the decline of meat eating.
    This was particularly heartening news.

    “a Sunday Star-Times/Stuff online survey of nearly 15,000 readers this week reports only 36 per cent of respondents are committed carnivores. A fifth have already cut most or all meat from their diet (21 per cent); the rest are considering cutting back for health (15 per cent), budget (14 per cent), environmental (10 per cent), animal welfare (3 per cent) or personal taste (1 per cent) reasons.”

    • Infused 2.1

      Personally I have. It’s really come down to nzs shit meat quality

      • Stunned mullet 2.1.1

        Where do you buy from ?

        • Infused

          We’ve only just recently got a butcher back in town so I’ve started buying again. But nowhere near as much as I use. Veggie stuff is quite nice

          • Stunned Mullet

            I’m the same eat less than I used to and only purchase from the local butcher – higher cost but can’t stomach the rubbish they sell at the supermarkets.

            • savenz

              Supermarkets seemed to have wrecked the quality of fish too, in their quest to maximise profits. Fish new seemed to be caught here, transported to China for cheaper labour processing and then sent back here. Funny enough a lot of problems can happen in that process. Least of all, they don’t taste too good.

              Then the fish farms which seem to be springing up and turning fish into factory farms full of pollutants and biohazards. Can’t remember where, but a whole lot of farmed fish escaped recently and will be a huge hazard apparently to the native fish. Then they are removing all the small fish before they can breed in the sea to turn them into food for the farmed fish.

      • savenz 2.1.2

        Most of NZ prime meat is exported. The Kiwis get the leftovers or imported meat.

        Then the farmers say they have to keep the inhumane conditions for animals like pigs and chicken’s to ‘compete’ with the cheap imports.

        Lots of scams like the meat being injected with water in a sludge of bovine and animal particles to get the weight up.

        Then you start getting issues with biosecurity with all the imported foods and have so spend money firefighting the growing issue of overseas viruses and insects being introduced (Like PSA for example) destroying our food supply, exports and crops.

        • Stunned Mullet

          I’m not sure the PSA would enjoy being classified as a virus or insect.

        • Rosemary McDonald

          “The Kiwis get the leftovers or imported meat.”

          I speak to many travelers from Europe and they can’t believe how much we pay for 2nd grade NZ produce. They’d be taking to the streets….

          • savenz

            Having seen the mad cow and foot and mouth in the UK and the burning pyres of dead animals, (note the UK foot and mouth was traced to imported Polish pork from school dinners fed to the cows, if that is not disgusting enough, on every level), the deaths in the US from coli in meat and god knows what goes on in Asia with all the dead carcasses lined up in the restaurants.

            I’m not sure how 2nd rate our meat is. But certainly the cost of it bears scrutiny because why are we paying so much for food we produce? Exporting the best stuff and importing in crap without clearly declaring it to be imported meat.

      • James 2.1.3

        That’s why we home kill.

    • The ones considering it for their health should do more research. There’s nothing unhealthy about eating meat, unless it’s been prepared in unsanitary conditions. And if you cut down on protein and fat the only thing you can replace them with is carbohydrate, which genuinely is bad for your health.

      The ones considering it for the environment should also do more research, unless they’re planning to move to the US or Europe sometime soon.

    • Molly 2.3

      Hi Ed,

      Wondered if you had seen this movie by Simon Anstell: Carnage: Swallowing the Past?

      It is a mockumentary set in the future, and appears to give a different reflective perspective on eating meat in a way that does not bring out the defensive reflex in people. (Full disclosure: Haven’t yet watched it, but did listen to a podcast on the movie and have it lined up for family night at home.)

  3. Rosemary McDonald 3

    Spare a though today for the poor besieged Harpers from Taneatua,

    ” At home this week, Yvonne Harper indicated she was unhappy with the way things turned out but referred questions to her lawyer.

    “Don’t make me feel bad. I don’t like it, but we’ve been through a very, very hard time ourselves – emotionally, financially, it’s been hurting us too. I’ve really suffered.””

    There’s suffering, and then there’s suffering.

    What would Helen do?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 3.1

      We’ve worked hard all our lives to get to where we are now, I don’t have to justify anything.

      I expect it was terribly hard work to step over a body.

      It’s all legal though 🙄

    • Stunned Mullet 3.2

      Seems a bit odd that as the sole director he can’t be held accountable despite proceeding with what on the face of it appears to be a completely contrived receivership.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 3.2.1

        It seems “odd” to you that a part-time nurse doesn’t have the resources to hold Harper to account?


        • Stunned Mullet

          No, H&SNZ and the other relevant government departments that were involved.

          • One Anonymous Bloke

            It was a private prosecution after H&SNZ failed to get involved.

            • Rosemary McDonald

              Helen would be mighty pissed…

              There must be something that can be done, other than holding the guilty down and sticking fingers down their throats, to make them cough up?

              This is a legal single digit salute to the courts….

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                …and also “normal practice”.

                “John Key’s lawyer, Ken Whitney, was criticised by the High Court after creating a sham trust for a bankrupt property developer then failing to disclose it to authorities probing his client’s insolvency.”

                “When asked during cross-examination if he had concerns around setting up structures to allow a bankrupt to continue in business, Mr Whitney told the court: “No, not particularly. It’s a common thing for people to do. It may not be morally as white as it could be but it’s normal practice.”

                The law is an ass.

    • The move infuriated Eruera’s legal team as there had been no mention in court of an inability to pay. They questioned whether it was a deliberate ploy to avoid the order.

      As these things happen all the time when a small business gets fined and told to pay reparations and the owners then go on about their life as if nothing happened?

      Yeah, probably.

      These fines need to be sheeted home to the owners and not the business so that simply closing the business doesn’t get rid of the consequences.

  4. AsleepWhileWalking 4

    MPs and social media do not mix.

    • Muttonbird 4.1

      Is Chris Bishop simply another pervy old man, or is there something more sinister at play?

      • Stunned Mullet 4.1.1

        Not sure that you can class clueless idiocy as something sinister.

        Poor old Hutt South finally got rid of one munter only to be replaced by another.

        • veutoviper

          A “clueless idiot” who has a 1st Class Honours degree in Law (and a BA in History/Politics) and who has been admitted to the NZ Bar as a Barrister and Solicitor.

          His partner, Jenna Raeburn, (PR Consultant) also has a BA and LLB as well as considerable experience working for the National Party and MPs in Parliament before becoming Director of Barton Deakin’s NZ office last year.

          “Barton Deakin is the largest government relations firm in Australia, and now the first trans-Tasman company in our field.”

          One would have hoped that between them, they would have realised beforehand how “clueless” Bishop’s actions would be (and were) in contacting young female teenagers via social media. There may well have been nothing sinister (eg perviness) intended, but perception is everything in public relations, politics and the like.

          • Rosemary McDonald

            “…and who has been admitted to the NZ Bar as a Barrister and Solicitor.”

            Hmmm…if I had nothing better to do today I’d be tempted to set up a side thread to share lawyer jokes.

      • Carolyn_Nth 4.1.2

        The article I read said there was no suggestion of perviness, etc. Just a clueless MP apparently.

      • mary_a 4.1.3

        Bit odd a man of Bishop’s age and position should be contacting teenage girls on social media! Power feeding an underlying dark urge perhaps? Suspicious to say the least.

        John Key … female hair fettish
        Chris Bishop … chatting up teenage girls on social media …
        any more to add to the growing list of Natz pervy creeps?

        • infused

          get a grip

          • One Anonymous Bloke

            It will be a nervous few days for National as they wait to see whether this is a #metoo moment, or just a case of an experienced lawyer and MP messaging young women on Snapchat. 🙄

          • adam

            Key did, get a grip of hair that is.

            Did Bishop, well we hope not.

            But you need to face reality infused, you Tory types are chock full of nasty pervs exploting their power.

      • infused 4.1.4

        its been written to suggest that. click bait at play. but no.

  5. mac1 6

    Two points about this. Firstly, justice can still be found.

    Secondly, it demonstrates why that law has to go, and why it should go, entirely.

    • James 6.1

      This shows a couple of things.

      1 – the law works and the employers who were clearly not being fair have been punished.

      2 – that there are shit employees out there who just are not up to the job and employers need to be able to get rid of them and hire people who turn up on time and get the work done.

      • adam 6.1.1

        Horse excrement.

        Take you hatred of working people somewhere else james.

        People like you…

      • UncookedSelachimorpha 6.1.2

        “2 – that there are shit employees out there who just are not up to the job and employers need to be able to get rid of them and hire people who turn up on time and get the work done.”

        Employers can already do that, through proper process. Happens all the time.

        We don’t need to add the 90 day “fire at will” exploiting garbage.

      • mac1 6.1.3

        James, your number one is correct.

        But, for number two, it seems I am twenty years older than you. I remember full employment. There seemed little problem then with retaining good workers, and sacking the hopeless.

        The difference was that with full employment employers had more difficulty in hiring so were more careful in training and retention.

        With 5% unemployment, employers can be less.

        A great deal of business problems in NZ are not with workers, but management. Our middle management are in world terms under-skilled and underperforming.

        MBIE says



      • McFlock 6.1.4

        The law only “worked” in this case because it didn’t apply, because the employers were incompetent and tried to do consecutive trial periods. It is only because the law didn’t apply that the manifest injustice of her summary dismissal could be addressed.

        Also, there are shit employers who have neither the people skills nor the paperwork skills to manage staff. With those folk, the 90-day bill is a loaded firearm – whether they shoot their employees or their own foot is a betting matter.

      • 1. How many have been unjustly dismissed and not ended up in court?
        2. It’s probably more accurate to say that there are shit employers who don’t know how to deal with people, how to engage them.

        • james

          1 – No idea
          2 – also true – but they are not mutually exclusive.

          I can agree there are shit employers out there if you can agree there are shit employees 😉

          • adam

            Like I said earlier james – Take your hatred of working people, and bugger off back to the cesspit you crawled out of.

            • james

              No hatred from me. I can happily admit there are piss poor employers. But its amazing that you cannot even admit that there are some shit staff ?

              funny that -Im guessing you must just be a model employee.

              (thats assuming you have a job of course)

              • OncewasTim

                Do you have bifolding doors in you mansion James?
                Just wondering how you get you big ‘blokes’ head through.

              • adam

                Now you hating on the unemployed, what low life Tory idiot you prove yourself to be james.

                Everyday with your hate, it gets tiresome. I’d say try love, I know asking a bit much – but you might actually turn out to be a better human being.

                Rather than play your silly little hate games.

                • james

                  You may read it as hating on the unemployed – but thats just your bias again (and low level of reading comprehension).

                  My comment about you being a model employee required you to be employed.

                  • adam

                    I comprehended your hatred for working people rather well, the snide and vicious attacks against working people have been pretty constant on this site.

                    Now you doing your level best to keep that roling on by more of your horse excrement, and trying to do the whole personalizing the argument to score points.

                    I’ve been open about what I do, you need to keep up.

                    Your hate however, keeps rolling on.

              • McFlock

                The problem isn’t the shit employers or the shit staff.

                The problem is that competent employers didn’t need the 90-day fire at will to manage or even get rid of staff, good or bad.

                But under fire at will, good staff don’t have any redress against shit employers, unless the employer is so incompetent that they can’t even implement fire at will competently.

                It’s the imbalance that is the major problem with the fire at will act. If the employer is incompetent but not catastrophically incompetent, the employees bear the brunt and and the business suffers.

            • Ed

              Totally agree.
              James and his ilk ruin this site.

  6. James 7

    I posted this last night – but thought it an interesting discussion:

    Law makers move to cancel Lorde concerts.

    “The taxpayers of Miami and Tampa should not have to facilitate bigotry and anti-Semitism, and I look forward to the Miami Sports and Exhibition Authority and the Tampa Sports Authority complying with the law and cancelling these concerts.“

    If this gets upheld- her US career is toast – 20 states have the same laws (and growing).

    It’s an interesting way to fight back treating BDS and it’s supporters in the same manner that they are attacking others – in their pocket.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 7.1

      I see the Herald is still getting material from Cameron Slater.

      Lorde might have to book private venues instead. Oh noes!

    • … treating BDS and it’s supporters in the same manner that they are attacking others – in their pocket.

      “The same manner?” Can you elaborate a bit on how the BDS movement is using the political leverage of their supporters in the world’s most powerful country to pass laws damaging to Israeli interests? Because, if they aren’t, it’s not “the same manner,” is it?

      • James 7.2.1

        The b is for boycott. Which is expressly designed to hit revenues. The law in the us does the same.

        • Psycho Milt

          It is of course much easier to hit people’s revenues when you have government politicians in your pocket. In that sense it is “the same,” just like Tank Man and the tanks he was facing were doing the same thing (attempting to achieve political objectives). I doubt Tank Man considered the tanks to be “the same” as him, though.

    • savenz 7.3

      Nothing like freedom of speech and freedom of movement (or choosing not to go to a venue), sarcasm.

      Sad that aggressors can and seek to control everything, even trying to wreck some teenager’s career. Nice to have that sort of time and influence on your hands. NOT.

      The Jews who don’t agree with the land seizures in Israel and even the UN are harassed just as much as everyone else.

    • Muttonbird 7.4

      What happened to ‘free speech’? Passing laws against BDS seems to contravene that principle.

      • Goes against the idea of a free-market as well. But, then, the RWNJs have never been for a free-market. Just one that’s controlled by them and in their favour.

  7. adam 8

    Wow, looks like Canada is going to lead the world in Nuclear fusion. If you have 13 minutes, including ads. This is a great introduction piece, with a tour General Fusions, the company in Canada who are making great leaps in this direction.

    So in 4 years these could very well be viable replacements for all coal burning plants.

  8. greywarshark 9

    Interesting points to me about history of the pandemic of flu in 1918. This is to be a year of discussion and memorial – the fastest deadly one there has ever been.

    What stands out is that it was largely dealt with by women, children and the elderly – everybody else was overseas still, involved with WW1.

    Also there was intelligence sensitivity – giving out info could break morale, let out useful info to the enemy etc. So people were not informed about it officially and nation-wide. Local government had to organise a system to deal with it – the baker’s van would deliver the bread and take away the bodies each day! Boy Scouts went round delivering leaflets. There is a huge story about how NZ coped in difficult times that we should know about, as today our national information, knowledge and action is also being weakened by events and approaches.

    Spain wasn’t in the war, other countries couldn’t mention the flu, so when Spain reported its outbreak it became okay to mention it; calling it the Spanish flu.

    Actually they think it originally came from pig farms in Kansas. But that would have been the first wave which had not been so deadly, another one mutated and started about three weeks later and it was much more severe.
    9:37 Ryan McLane: lessons from 1918’s killer flu
    This year marks 100 years since the most deadly epidemic in NZ’s history claimed nearly 10,000 lives. The influenza pandemic of 1918, at the end of WW1, hit hard and fast killing four times as many Maori as pakeha.

    There are only a handful of memorials around the country – the devastation is often overlooked because it occurred at the same time as the war in Europe in ended. Ryan McLane, a communicable diseases specialist who’s a health advisor at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, explains why it was so lethal.

  9. red-blooded 10

    An interesting discussion from Aus onthe privileges associated with being a male politician, looking at the way Barnaby Joyce is able to swat away the news about his affair and “love child” with a former staffer compared to the way the Aus media treats female politicians. It’s based on PhD research and focuses in particular on the case of Cheryl Kernot, a rising star of the 90’s who was attacked in the media for having the “morals of an alleycat on heat” when it was revealed that she had had an affair 20 years earlier with a former student. She got the whole “Does her heart rule her head?” thing thrown at her, too, and was eventually hounded out of politics.

    The piece discusses the convention that politicians’ private lives should be kept private, and finds “And the evidence is clear: it was more likely to be broken for women in politics, whose relationships, sexuality and gender rendered them somehow more accessible. The private life convention has often rested on an assumption that men are not affected by love affairs, flings and trysts, while women are.

    It’s a peculiar kind of unconscious bias.”

    Strong links to the recent “concerns” from some that our PM shouldn’t continue to serve while she’s pregnant or new to motherhood.

  10. Ed 11

    Israel is a racist, rogue state.
    It is supported and armed by the US, also a racist, rogue state.

  11. Eco Maori 12

    I have to use my daughter phone to get this post out you see people Spark is a neoliberal run company the sand fly’s are using this company as a weapon against Ecothey have many times blocked my data as I only blog and read other sites in reality I should never run out of my data enough said .
    Give a little got back to me on Friday asking me to change some things information on my give a little page I emailed them that I will think about choices.
    My choice is I don’t need to use give a little site the sandfly are going to try and play me using that site. This is the internet age as everyone who reads my word is internet savvy I can just make my own site and put a bank account number up and wallar people who want to help me can use internet banking to make donations for my cause of holding the NZ justice system to account for the farcical game they are
    Trying to play against me. I will set up a charitable trust to help other common Kiwis
    Sue the Nz justice .when I win my case I will put the money back in the trust for other people to apply for funding to nz justice system for breaching there privacy/human rights I will keep you updated on my progress as the first stage will take about 2 weeks. Many thanks to all the good people who run the standard for letting ECO Maori use this site to get funding to sue the Crown. Ka psi I’m nakered the mokos have tired me out lol PS I don’t trust give a little and they won’t be getting 15persent of my Mana
    .ka kite ano

    • eco maori 12.1

      Yes I have a big problem with that tpp why are we not privay to all the information on ttp is it a weapon for the 1%,to get total control of the common 99%.
      3 minutes after I posted that post and wallar my data is back I rang 123 4 times muppets enough said on that.
      I have a lot of good information that I want to cut and paste on here one can see that it’s the original book. This information will lift MAORI Mana up high as it show how the NZ company ripped off and coned the British people they went to Britain and sold lies when the settlers landed in Atoearoa there was nothing that they were sold and promised they would have starved to death Maori built them housing and feed all the common British people that landed in Atoearoa with nothing??????? neoliberals theves.
      Ana to kai This information is from the missionarys and another society
      Ka kite ano

    • james 12.2

      So – no more donations huh?

      Since you want to setup a charitable trust – this might help.

      • Muttonbird 12.2.1

        This, and your previous attacks on this poster amounts to bullying, imo.

        No surprises there.

  12. Carolyn_Nth 13

    From earlier this week (may already have been discussed here, but I was busy when it was published – and it’s very important and there need to be constant reminders about it:

    Jane Kelsey: Excess of spin on revised TPP cause for concern

    The prizes for excessive spin go to Winston Peters (1st place) and David Parker (2nd place).

    The latest version of the TPPA is not much better or different from the Nats’ version.

    A lot of nonsense has been talked about the second bottom line: preserving the right to regulate. The entire agreement is designed to restrict the right of sovereign governments to regulate in the national interest on matters as diverse as banking, government procurement and platform operators like Uber and Amazon. Even Tim Groser and I could agree on that.

    Te Tiriti is not protected as claimed in the spin, and then there’s the secrecy.

    The problems with this agreement are substantial.

    • savenz 13.1

      Ask Maori if the treaty was a fair deal. Nope thought not.

      TPPA is NOT some simple 5 page trade agreement to remove tariffs. If it was then there would be no problem.

      Nope it is a way for those with international power and resources to continue to exploit new countries and resources without censorship or be compensated for it and to control new ideas and IP and stifle innovation.

      Oil/cars is an example, if that industry was not so powerful the world could have saved a lot of the environmental pollution and potentially climate change a lot sooner and had green energy.

      You can not micro manage the future with these agreements.

      Government officials are blind to what they are signing. It’s the emperor’s new clothes.

      • savenz 13.1.1

        But the biggest reason I’m against the TPPA is that it is inherently undemocratic.

        The agreement sits over the top of the countries undermining democracy from local government decisions to central government decisions to the person on the street or living on the farm.

        And that is why the agreement texts needs to be kept a secret because it’s an insane thing to do and falls down when examined as why a government would sign up it’s people to it.

        Look at the billions it’s going to cost the UK to Brexit. Once in, too expensive and complicated to exit multi country agreements.

        And the reason the UK wanted to exit in the first place was probably nothing to do with the EU but to do with neoliberalism and not being able to afford housing and transport, lack of security, poorer healthcare and schooling having little say in your community.

        The same thing that is plaguing NZ and we are trying to make worse with neoliberal trade agreements.

        • Molly

          “Look at the billions it’s going to cost the UK to Brexit. Once in, too expensive and complicated to exit multi country agreements. “
          Was in the UK when the EU was being discussed, and couldn’t see how the democracy of each country was going to be protected, and how policies could be enacted that protected each citizen. The result for the referendum for Brexit is understandable when you consider how many have been left behind in the last three decades.

          I have the same concern with the TPPA that you do. And it is not alleviated by the smooth murmurings of David Parker.

          • Peroxide Blonde

            The alienation of large sections of English society was done by Tory and Labour governments since Thatcher came to power in 1979.
            The EU, and its ECJ, brought massive improvement to working conditions and to civil rights in England. The single market brought the UK out of its economic malaise and, along with Scottish oil, underwrote the growth of the last 30 years.

            If it was not for Europe England would be a far bigger mess that the shocker it is currently suffering.

        • cleangreen

          TPP was hatched by the global elite for them to rape and pillage the world nothing more clear then that.

          Pity Jacinda has not woken up to her placing her child into economic bondage for the next thirty years once TPP is triggered.

  13. rhinocrates 14

    I’ll bet you never expected to see prose like this in The Economist:

    Some of the biggest changes in recent decades have made the meritocracy even more intolerable than it was in the glory days of the 11-plus. One is the marriage of merit and money. The plutocracy has learned the importance of merit: British public schools have turned themselves into exam factories and the children of oligarchs study for MBAs. At the same time the meritocracy has acquired a voracious appetite for money. The cleverest computer scientists dream of IPOs, and senior politicians and civil servants cash in when they retire with private-sector jobs. A second is supersized smugness. Today’s meritocrats are not only smug because they think they are intellectually superior. They are smug because they also think that they are morally superior, convinced that people who don’t share their cosmopolitan values are simple-minded bigots. The third is incompetence. The only reason people tolerate the rule of swots is that they get results. But what if they give you the invasion of Iraq and the financial crisis?

    It’s review of a book called The Rise of the Meritocracy, by Michael Young, published sixty years ago.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 14.1

      Meritocracy? Show me some.

      …the pursuit of meritocracy at the workplace may be more difficult than it first appears…

      • greywarshark 14.1.1

        Good to read, but will it be by the smug? They know all they need to and any other thoughts are from those who are the wrong fit to belong to the group who are making it in the world.

        Of course what ‘it’ is, is fairly narrowly defined and a bit vague around the edges after the assurance that it is proving profitable. And as the old people say about proof, ‘The proof of the pudding is in the eating’. That’s all that needs to be explained. ‘Nuff said. (Though someone coined the phrase ‘ Eat the rich’. This has an unsettling ring to it. End of memo to self.)

      • rhinocrates 14.1.2

        You mean an actual meritocracy, in which the truly talented are promoted rather than those who are good at exams and are the children of those who can send them to the best schools. Meritocracy in practise becomes self-perpetuating oligarchy.

        As usual, the theoretical ideal of how something should work is used to excuse or obscure its failure in practice.

        • One Anonymous Bloke

          It strikes me as one of those words coined for political purposes rather than by observation. Sophistry by any other name.

          • rhinocrates

            Yep. Like ‘aristocracy’ means literally ‘rule by the best’ but Oscar Wilde described Burke’s Peerage as “the one book a young man about town should know thoroughly, and it is the best thing in fiction the English have ever done'”

    • Molly 14.2

      I always considered one of the primary benefits of any privately funded schools to be the contacts, and networks made that provide benefits over and above any academic or meritocracy.

      The amount of money spent could provide a wealth of experiences and tutors, but would not give that access to others on the same path to wealth.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 14.2.1

        All the more reason to close private schools: get those networks to extend further into society, and let little Tarquin and Jeremy-Charles get a more rounded view of life.

  14. Whispering Kate 15

    Well folks it raining cats and dogs up here in the North – thankfully the drains are working but we have a lagoon on our front lawn. Cyclone Gita is on its way and Cyclone Hola in its wake – climate change showing its force in a very wet way. The plants are confused and don’t know one season fron the next.

    Also my thought for the day – Julie Bishop the Australian Foreign Minister is standing firm on their NZ detention laws – I wonder what will happen in the future when Australian citizens will be begging in their thousands to come over here escaping being roasted alive in their country as climate refugees. Will we be a stand over and let them in like we have been with the Peter Theil’s of this world and all the other bolt hole rich listers and receive them in with generous arms, or will we stand firm and say we have other priorities like the Pacific Islanders whose countries will be under water – I think not. We need to, the Australians don’t care one jot for us.

    • Carolyn_Nth 15.1

      Bucketing down in Auckland, too. I expect some flooding in some parts of the city.

      Many of us have relatives in Aussie.

      The Aussies are very keen on sending people born in NZ, or with NZ family history, back to NZ. So, when Aussie bakes, and is short of potable water, maybe we should say we’ll just take back the Kiwis….. and the rest can have Aussie to themselves?

      • veutoviper 15.1.1


      • greywarshark 15.1.2

        Funny to hear Julie Bishop talk like a real person with concern and thoughts – they must have given her a very good dinner before the interview and quieted the hysterical indigestion. We are stuck with Oz as neighbours, and they always have at least 3 plans on stand-by for us, they will be milking us as long as they can.

        Her Australian line will be straight from ‘Hotel California’ – they keep ‘stabbing us with their steely knives but they just can’t kill the beast’. Thanks to excellent AZ Lyrics. I wonder if our handsome winsome Winston soft-soaped her?

        Mirrors on the ceiling
        The pink champagne on ice
        And she said “We are all just prisoners here, of our own device”
        And in the master’s chambers
        They gathered for the feast
        They stab it with their steely knives
        But they just can’t kill the beast

        Last thing I remember
        I was running for the door
        I had to find the passage back to the place I was before
        “Relax, ” said the night man
        “We are programmed to receive
        You can check-out any time you like
        But you can never leave!”

    • Ed 15.2

      Cyclone Gerry.
      Nine years as climate change minster and no useful action at all.

      • james 15.2.1

        Ed – here you go telling lies – or are you really so stupid ?

        Im going with both stupid and a liar.

        read here:

        and you will find that there has never been a “Gerry” as a climate change minister.

        facts – they used to trip up Paul all the time as well.

        • Ed

          An example of Gerry’s incompetence.

          Technology will save the world from climate change – Gerry Brownlee

          • james

            An example of Ed’s incompetence.

            “Nine years as climate change minster and no useful action at all.”

            about a guy who wasnt climate change minister.

            Come on Ed – admit you fucked up – you are looking stupid (again).

            • Ed

              TDB names next Cyclone Gerry

              Because climate change is a political problem & not a scientific question, The Daily Blog is naming all cyclones after our MPs and Companies who have done so much to hold back genuine climate change reform – this new one that is joining our increasingly erratic and weather pattern is called ‘Cyclone Gerry’ in honour of Gerry Brownlee who did sweet FA in 9 years on climate change.


              • james

                ““Nine years as climate change minster and no useful action at all.”

                So it was you that read something – couldn’t even comprehend even the most basic of story from the Daily Blog, then made up your own “facts” (“Nine years as climate change minster and no useful action at all.”) and added them when posting here as your own clever idea without linking to the original story.

                You keep getting more stupid.

                So again ““Nine years as climate change minster and no useful action at all.”

                Who was the climate change minister Ed – come on – you know you can do it…….(or perhaps not)

  15. Ed 16

    Another article pointing out the oncoming crash.
    John Adams, a former Australian government economist has warned. “a small tremor before the big earthquake” as the world moves “ever closer to economic armageddon”.
    The signs are out there folks.

    Ten signs we’re heading for ‘economic armageddon’

    Sign 1: Record Household Debt
    Sign 2: Declining Household Savings
    Sign 3: Continued Record Low Interest Rates
    Sign 4: Growing Housing Bubble
    Sign 5: Continued Increase In Global Debt
    Sign 6: Major International Asset Bubbles Keep Growing
    Sign 7: Increasing Inflation
    Sign 8: Tightening Monetary Policy And Rising Global Interest Rates
    Sign 9: Inverted And Flattening Yield Curves
    Sign 10: Return Of Risky Derivatives

    • One Anonymous Bloke 16.1

      Financiers love these scary sounding words like “Armageddon”.

      That being so it’s important to remember some words that scare financiers: like jubilee, and default, or the fact that Argentina still exists.

  16. Ms Fargo 17

    Is texting minors a lapse of judgment or grooming? Does anyone know what the definition is and when one becomes the other? This distinction must be a minefield for the judiciary. Even more so in the days of the me too movement.

    • James 17.1

      I think it would depend very much on the content of the text. Given that the parents have not kicked up a fuss – I doubt that they were unsavoury. But it was a stupid thing to be doing.

      It is also wrong just to assume that a male texting younger people could be grooming.

      • Stunned mullet 17.1.1

        ‘It is also wrong just to assume that a male texting younger people could be grooming.’

        True, it’s not as if he’s a member of the clergy.

  17. Bill 18

    Well, blow me over with a feather!

    The Guardian actually has a meaningful article with an open comments section.

    Simon Tisdall does a predictable bias piece on Syria and….well, the comments are worth the read.

    • Ed 18.1

      Thanks Bill.
      You will learn more from reading that those comments than days of watching the msm’s propaganda on Syria.
      I particularly found this comment illuminiating.
      The Open University of the interweb.

      The reason for the sudden revival in coverage of Syria isn’t hard to fathom. It is connected to several recent and ongoing developments:

      The Syrian military, having largely succeeded in defeating ISIS, is now pushing to reclaim the lucrative oil fields east of Deir-ez-Zor. The American “Coalition” has marked the Euphrates as a deconfliction zone and has sold that in the Western media as a consensus position where it is in fact a unilateral imposition made during their occupation of Syrian land.

      It was in this region of Mesopotamia that the American military and their Islamist/Kurdish proxies engaged with and killed roughly 100 Syrian forces earlier in the week. There has also been the suggestion that there were Russian casualties. The wider point is that despite the defeat of ISIS, there remains conflict over the spoils – or would be spoils – of war…

      Which explains America’s typically atavistic declaration that it would retain an open-ended presence in the region, particularly in the NE Syria/Iraqi border, under the pretence of training/supporting a cross-border security force staffed with Kurdish forces and the remnants of its covertly backed Islamist militias.

      This brings America into conflict with an increasingly Iran-aligned Iraqi government and, more importantly, Turkey, who will not under any circumstances accept a border force of American-backed Kurdish forces in the 10s of thousands as proposed by the Pentagon.

      This in turn partially explains the Turkish attack on Afrin, which is ongoing and likely to be bloody.

      The Syrian downing of an Israelli F-16, which resulted in Israel retaliating with missiles deep into Syrian territory. The more important point here is that Syria wouldn’t have aimed its air defences against an Israeli air force that has made persistent, offensive raids into Syrian air space without the explicit support of the Russian military. This was, in other words, a warning – back off. As of now, it seems that Israel is not willing to escalate the conflict any further.

      There is also the ongoing rapprochement between Russian and Turkey and the Russia-mediated talks, while the US has rallied back around its position of no progress without the Assad government stepping down. So there is a mixture of deadlock and movement to end the conflict.

      That’s the background context for the recent uptick in Western media propaganda about Syria. The fact that it is mostly couched in terms of nostalgia for what might have been suggests that even with the best warmongering will in the world, the moment for massive Western destabilisation and imperial adventurism has passed. That doesn’t mean, however, that there isn’t the possibility for tactical mistakes with broader implications, and America continues to play an invidious role.

      None of this, of course, is seriously dealt with in the current glut of coverage – but we shouldn’t expect it after the last 5 years. And lest it need be said, one doesn’t need to “support” (whatever that means) the Syrian or Russian governments in order be curious about the actual real-world implications of what is happening or how they fit into the geostrategic network of power-interests. It’s just a shame that none of these issues will be covered in anything like an honest fashion by an increasingly shameless Western propaganda consensus.

      Bill, Eva Bartlett is always interesting on Syria.
      This is worth watching.

      • Bill 18.1.1

        Islamist/Kurdish proxies


        Nah. That’s straight from the book about the autonomous regions all being a dastardly Zionist plot. 🙄

        Turkey is employing the services of jihadists in their incursions into the autonomous regions.

        Turkey (rightly or wrongly) wants any hint of Kurdish influence in the area eradicated.

        Both Turkey and the US have no legal basis for being in the region.

        Israel meantime simply doesn’t want the area between Damascus and the Lebanon to fall back into government control “because Hezbollah” (hence Ghouta).

  18. veutoviper 19

    In a funny way, despite his political leanings in the past, I still miss John Armstrong’s opinion pieces in the Herald following his retirement due to serious health problems. So it is good to see he still contributes from time to time on TVNZ’s website – and this week it seems that even he has not escaped the Jacinda effect:

    Bill won’t be pleased.

    • veutoviper 19.1

      As no edit time option appeared – that is meant to be Bill English in the last sentence.

  19. Pete 20

    “The National Party received $771,736, including $150,000 from the Inner Mongolia Rider Horse Industry.”

    For that they get Matthew Hooton.

  20. Ed 21

    Sounds like a breath of fresh air in Derry.
    It is rare one gets the opportunity to hear the truth, not the corporate media’s narrative.

    Five passionate and well-informed speakers, who included the former British Ambassador to Syria Peter Ford, detailed the carnage and chaos that has been unleashed around the globe by the aggressive, warmongering policies of the US and its closest allies.

    Eva Bartlett, Investigative Journalist
    Dr Marcus Papadopoulos, Editor Politics First
    Neil Clark, Journalist, Author, Broadcaster
    Peter Ford, Former UK Ambassador to Syria
    Professor Piers Robinson, Sheffield University
    Vanessa Beely, Investigative Journalist

    Here is one of those speakers.
    Neil Clark on Yogoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Iraq.

    As a commentator says.

    Because everyone in Britain, Europe and America swallowed the narrative about Yugoslavia and more specifically Serbia, it allowed the governments in those places to carry out their subsequent attacks on Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria….not to mention the coup in Ukraine and the attack on Yemen. Everyone accepted the Kosovo and Bosnia narrative. The lies were obvious to me. I encountered the ”poor Kosovar” and ”poor Bosniaks” in London as many of them took advantage of a free passage to the rich West. I noticed that these ”victims” immediately engaged in criminal activities in London. That was what the Serbs had had to deal with for years. Yet they were the bad guys. Even now on the left, the Serbs are accepted without question as the ”’bad guys”….some seem to have caught up now, but none of them spoke up at the time.

    • Ed 21.1

      Imperialism On Trial: Writers And Activists Convene In Derry, Ireland

      Imperialism has run like a broken thread throughout human history, but so has Resistance to Imperialism. In this regard, I’d like to take a moment to pay tribute to the Syrian Arab Army, Hezbollah, Iran, Russia, in short, all those whose efforts in combating this genocidal project of a latter day Khmer Rouge has prevented Syria from being pushed into an abyss in which its minorities—people who can trace their presence in that part of the world back over a millenia and more—would have been gone, extirpated, annihilated.

      Everybody on this panel tonight has felt the lash of the mainstream media. They call us ‘cranks’, they call us ‘stooges’, they call us “Putin’s puppets’, they call us ‘Assadists’. But yet, why do they attack us if we’re so marginal, why take the time to attack what we do? It’s because we ask the question ‘why’

      John Wight‘s talk was a poetic, searing condemnation of Imperialism and the corporate media, with literary and historical references included.

      Alternative media and those who go on it are under attack because they have the temerity to ask the most subversive question in the English language which is:


      Why did we go to war in Iraq?

      Why are there sanctions on Cuba?

      Why are we going after Iran but are close friends with the Saudis?

      This question is so powerful. We are attacked because we ask the question, why?

      I am reminded of the African proverb that until lions have their own historians, tales of the hunt will always glorify the hunter. Now with the alternative media, the lions have their historians.

      We can put the case for the Syrian people; we can put the case for the Venezuelan people; we can put the case why Russia should not be our enemy.

  21. Ed 22

    Capitalism is killing the world.
    And we are letting it do so.

    After 200,000 years of modern humans on a 4.5 billion-year-old Earth, we have arrived at new point in history: the Anthropocene. The change has come upon us with disorienting speed. It is the kind of shift that typically takes two or three or four generations to sink in.
    Our best scientists tell us insistently that a calamity is unfolding, that the life-support systems of the Earth are being damaged in ways that threaten our survival. Yet in the face of these facts we carry on as usual.
    Most citizens ignore or downplay the warnings; many of our intellectuals indulge in wishful thinking; and some influential voices declare that nothing at all is happening, that the scientists are deceiving us. Yet the evidence tells us that so powerful have humans become that we have entered this new and dangerous geological epoch, which is defined by the fact that the human imprint on the global environment has now become so large and active that it rivals some of the great forces of nature in its impact on the functioning of the Earth system.

    The great climate silence: we are on the edge of the abyss but we ignore it

    “The Earth is not dying, it is being killed, and those who are killing it have names and addresses”

  22. Ed 23

    100 people turn up to support the ACT Party leader’s protest.
    Blanket wall to wall media headlines.

    Tens of thousands turn up to protest the TPP.
    Barely makes the news.

    The elite have an agenda.

    • James 23.1

      Most of the press concur there were more than 100 – looks closer to 150.

      Funny how the labour mps who protested the tpp are now the government passing it. Must be so proud of them.

      • Muttonbird 23.1.1

        After making significant changes. Your position is to ignore that however.

        • James

          They haven’t really.

          • Muttonbird

            They have. There’s 12 changes not including the foreign buyer ban. That’s significant, and what’s more has assuaged most Kiwi’s concerns.

          • Incognito

            Are you channelling Jane Kelsey or just parsing her? Feel free to elaborate in your own words, in your own time.

              • Muttonbird

                I find it quite incredible for you to now be referencing Jane Kelsey after bagging her and the Labour opposition for opposing the TPPA as it stood then.

                It’s an unhappy time for National and Nat voters like yourself to have lost out on signing this (or any) free trade deal, but I’m sure you’ll get over it in time. Just leave it to the professionals in Labour to get it over the line. 🙂

                By the way, please find one quote where I have backed or even referenced Jane Kelsey’s work on this.

                You are a very dishonest person, James. But I think you know this. You like to make apologies when you get it totally wrong in public, like the 3-0 episode, and the change of government in 2017 but that is not the same thing.

                • James

                  Are you saying she is wrong and you know better?

                  And I never said you backed her work.

                  But I’m sure you know better than her and it’s great to have you on the pro-tpp signing team. I always knew you would come around.

                  • Muttonbird

                    The new team has won significant amendments which the Nats were happy to forego. The current deal helps protect working Kiwis, not that they’ve ever been a concern of yours.

              • Incognito

                In your own words, in your own time. Take your time, James, don’t be shy. I admire people who try to deal with complex issues in their own words, I really do – live (and let live) and learn. People who play silly games, James, not so much.

  23. greywarshark 24

    Euthanasia submissions to be in by midnight on Tuesday, 20 February 2018.

    Don’t wait till the last minute:
    This bill proposes to give people with a terminal illness or a grievous and irremediable medical condition the option of requesting assisted dying.

    The bill:
    defines who is eligible for assisted dying
    details the provisions to ensure that this a free choice
    outlines the steps to ensure a person is mentally capable of understanding the nature and consequences of assisted dying.

    What do you need to know?
    Submissions are publicly released and published to the Parliament website. Only your name or organisation’s name is required on a submission. Please keep your contact details separate, because if they are included on the submission they will become publicly available when the submission is released.
    If you wish to include information of a private or personal nature in your submission you should discuss this with the clerk of the committee before submitting.
    If you wish to speak to your submission, please state this clearly. The committee will decide at a later date how it will hear from submitters.

    Looking at google (keywords – submission re euthanasia) and on the first page there were 10 headings relating to nz and euthanasia and 9 were against, mostly from the Catholic Church. It would be better for churches that have been involved in burning people and torturing them in past mistaken behaviour seeking to cleanse them of sin?, to be backward about interfering in this matter between a person and their God. Churches should not attempt to stop people from meeting their Maker when they feel they are ready, it is wrong for the Church to do so.

    Some thoughts on referendums – looking at Australia’s and warnings about possibilities when we do them.
    Graeme Edgeler on

  24. I intended to watch The Brisbane Global Rugby Tens when I finished milking .
    When I got to my daughters place on the farm well PaPa was to busy looking after our mokos to even get time to think about watching the Tens + I had to drive my wife back to Rotorua from Putaruru and back to milk at 5 am for her mahi sorry guys I will watch the games reruns .
    The Blues won Ka pai E hoa .Tana I wish you and your men all the best I wont say to much you see there is some phenomenon .I.E There was no information on your win on the 2 websites I frequently observe stuff /herald .I know why these neolibrals are trying there hardest to limit my Mana but know every time they try there actions just adds to my Mana enough said . Here,s a AUSSIE site with your fabulous win

    And heres one of 2 men showing how proud of the mokos they are daughters at that ka pai Brad & Reggie I have a more serious topic on my next post which is about looking after the mokos future Ka kite ano

    • eco maori 25.1

      I have been to busy defending my whano and I from the stupid plays of the sandflys to put some serious thought into this farcical tpp. You may ask your self why I call it FARCIAL they wont show us the wording so that is a farce . In my view if the government is to sign all the people of Aotearoa mokos futures up to this binding agreement that is being rammed down OUR throats by big business
      whose only goal is to take more of OUR hard earned resources away from us all this is a fact . Big business are manipulating it so they can do anything and if they cannot get or do what they want they will sue . Who wins when you get to the upper scales of big money well the Organization with the biggest check book always wins in that scenario ka pai.
      In my view we will all be held to ransom by big business if there products or services poision or kill other people wild life or ruin OUR mokos future environment there will be absolutely nothing we can do to stop them or hold big business accountable for there evil actions . Look at the nz company they sold lies to Britons took there money as they new that when the common people got to Aotearoa there was absolutely nothing they could do to get there money back. These people who are probably my ancestors only survived because Maori are a humane Culture that feed and built them houses .
      If we let the tpp be sign up into OUR laws in ten years time the scenario will be like this .
      You will have to be in the Billions club not the Millions club as it is at the moment to get Big business or the goverment to respect your human & privacy rights this is a fact .
      The 000.1% will have total control of Aotearoa full stop .
      Not including a clause for OUR Treaty of Waitangi is a spit in the face to ALL Maori.
      We have already lost enough Mana in the last 200 years the tpp will have us all living under the bridge working 80 hours a week just to eat or in sub standard housing estates full of drugs and crime this will be OUR reality.

      It is now that I challange all OUR Maori leaders to sue the coalition government into abandoning this farcical tpp that we know nothing about why are they hiding the laws of this contract because they know that we the 99% will be protesting and voting them out of Parliament.

      When a Hunter is hunting a wild Boar and its piglets he does not shout out to the Boar we are going caste a Kupenga /net over you and your mokos we are going to eat you and put your mokos in a Hinaki /trap and breed your mokos for our food as the Boar and his mokos will run away and never get caught ka pai
      ECO MAORI SAYS THIS IS THE WAY THESE EVIL bigots are behaving.
      I call on all the people of Aotearoa to stop this going through to OUR parliament .
      The neolibral civil servents who run the country are lying to our new goverment they have weaved a vale of lies and caste it over the new governments EYES.
      Now is the time for Maori to SUE the government in the high court to at the least have the Treaty of Waitangi INCLUSION clause sign into this farcical tpp .
      This action will protect all the 99.99% of people of Aoetearoa from big business cruel inhumane practice .
      One mite say you said that the action of SUING OUR new Labour lead goverment could cause them to lose the 2020 election to the neolibreals ECO MAORI says not to threat national are backing this farcial new treaty that just benefits the 000.1% of people on Papatuanuku so they will not beable to use it as a tool to steal votes off our new goverment .
      Ana to kai Ka kite ano

  25. “It will be remembered that Lord John Russell’s feelings in favour of the Natives of New Zealand were very strongly and publicly expressed on the occasion of his dining with the Company in the City. The following short quotations, from documents issued from the Colonial Office, will shew what were his views with respect to the land.

    Mr Vernon Smith to Mr Somes
    Downing Street, December 2, 1840.

    With regards to all lands in the colony acquired under any other title than that of grants made in the name and on behalf of Her Majesty, it is proposed that the titles of the claimants should be subjected to the investigation of a Commission to be constituted for that purpose. The basis of that inquiry will be the assertion, on behalf of the Crown, of a title to all lands situate in New Zealand, which have, heretofore, been granted by the Chiefs of those islands, according to the customs of the country, and in return for some adequate consideration. Lord J. Russell is not aware that any exception can arise to this general principle; but if so, every such exception will be considered on its own merits, and dealt with accordingly.

    Lord Stanley’s sentiments, as expressed in the following passages of a letter written by his under Secretary, are quite in unison with those of Lord J. Russell, as respects the Native rights.

    Extract of a Letter from G.W. Hope, Esq., to J. Somes, Esq.
    1st February, 1843.

    In answer to these claims, Lord Stanley desires me to remind you, that he has offered, on the part of the Crown, as matter, not of right, but of grace and favour, to “instruct the Governor to make them a conditional grant, subject to prior titles to be established as bylaw provided, not only of such portion of the Wellington Settlement as is in the actual occupation of Settlers under them but also of all parts not in the occupation or possession of others; the extent of such grants, of course, not to exceed that to which they are entitled under Mr. Pennington’s award.”

    Further than this, Lord Stanley cannot consent to go, consistently with the obligations by which the Crown as he conceives, is bound. Lord Stanley is not prepared, as Her Majesty’s Secretary of State, to join with the Company in setting aside the Treaty of Waitangi after obtaining the advantages guaranteed by it, even though it might be made with “naked savages,” or though it might “be treated by lawyers as a praise-worthy device for amusing and pacifying savages for the moment.” Lord Stanley entertains a different view of the respect due to obligations contracted by the Crown of England; and his final answer to the demands of the Company must be, that, as long as he has the honour of serving the Crown he will not admit that any person, or any Government acting in the name of Her Majesty, can contract a legal moral, or honorary obligation to despoil others of their lawful and equitable rights.”
    (Smith & Elder, 1846, p61-63)
    The Committee Of The Aborigines’ Protection Society (1846). On The British Colonization of New Zealand. London, Smith and Elder.
    I apologize to Elizabeth II Queen of the United Kingdom for the use of the Crown as a attack against the NZ police Ka kite ano

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