Open mike 11/07/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 11th, 2022 - 97 comments
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97 comments on “Open mike 11/07/2022 ”

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  1. PsyclingLeft.Always 1
    11 July 2022 at 7:36 am

    The emails show police planned "random and multiple" bail checks on Stephens and egged each other on. One officer addressed his colleagues as "fellow nightstalker bros" and another signed off with "happy hunting".

    Stephens, who was frustrated at night-time bail checks and texted a friend complaining that police "won't let me sleep", was shot and killed in Rotorua in July 2016 after lashing out and smashing up an empty police car.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/469982/ninja-style-bail-checks-before-police-shooting-of-shargin-stephens

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/445256/the-untold-story-of-how-police-shot-shargin-stephens

    Wtf ?The guy “might have” been bad? But are these Police for real? Sadly…yes. And many more similar cases. I CERTAINLY value good Police. At times a very difficult,stressful..and traumatic job. But these kind of …provocation and attitude need to be gone. So we can feel Respect for Our Police…..

    • Johnr 1.1
      11 July 2022 at 10:19 am

      Setting aside most individuals, the police as an organization lost their authority and public respect during the 81 Sprinbok tour. They have never regained it.

      • Incognito 1.1.1
        11 July 2022 at 10:28 am

        Over 50% of the population weren’t even born then!?

      • Anne 1.1.2
        11 July 2022 at 11:14 am

        No, Don't agree there.

        Setting aside the red squad in particular, the ordinary police officers that I saw behaved in an exemplary manner often under extreme provocation. That was the final game at Eden Park too. Mind you. I didn't last the distance because of the level of violence.

      • gsays 1.1.3
        11 July 2022 at 11:21 am

        Then follow that up with the realization of the framing of Arthur Thomas for the murder of Jeannettte and Harvey Crewe.

        To the best of my knowledge no one has been held accountable within the Police.

        • Belladonna 1.1.3.1
          11 July 2022 at 11:57 am

          Also more than 40 years ago. Could you update your examples to the 21st century, at least.

          • Jilly Bee 1.1.3.1.1
            11 July 2022 at 1:21 pm

            Peter Ellis and Scott Watson spring to mind.

            • Belladonna 1.1.3.1.1.1
              11 July 2022 at 3:17 pm

              Peter Ellis is a horrible example (also from the 20th century) But not, I think, of police corruption.
              It seems more to do with the moral panic around 'gay men' having 'access to' toddlers – and the gravy train that recovered memory syndrome proved to the dodgier side of the psych industry.

              I think an appalling miscarriage of justice. But, not that the police were predominantly liable. The Crown prosecutors and the judge need to carry a lot of the blame here.

              Scott Watson – (convicted 1999) – I'm truly in the 'don't know' basket. It's one of those cases where there seems to be just as much evidence on one side as is refuted by the other. Do you believe that the police fabricated evidence?

              • Visubversa …
                11 July 2022 at 4:19 pm

                Most of these "Satanic Panic" cases had one thing in common – a fundamentalist Christian on the prosecuting side.

                • Belladonna …
                  11 July 2022 at 4:23 pm

                  I don't know a lot about the ChCh case – is that the case there? Or are you commenting generally?

                  • gsays …
                    11 July 2022 at 6:00 pm

                    I thoroughly recommend Lynley Hood's A City Possesed about the Civic Creche case.

                    A disconcerting aspect was the senior cop investigating was having a relationship with the main complainants mother.

                    That 'investigation' was jeopardised by police zealotry in the recently formed child sex investigation team.

                    Police interview techniques

                    were dodgy and children's evidence was presented selectively. But, like Thomas, they got their man.

                    Again, no one has been held responsible.

                    We are more likely to get landlord politicians to sort housing before cops hold their own to account.

              • pat …
                11 July 2022 at 7:19 pm

                Peter Ellis + 1

                And not only the justice system, but the media and academia.

            • Puckish Rogue 1.1.3.1.1.2
              11 July 2022 at 4:35 pm

              Do not link Peter Ellis and Scott Watson together.

              One was an innocent man who deserves to have his reputation restored and the other is a piece of shit

              • DavidJ …
                11 July 2022 at 4:44 pm

                I tend to agree with you, but not everyone does.

                (Assuming I've interpreted your comment correctlywink)

              • swordfish …
                11 July 2022 at 6:01 pm

              • Shanreagh …
                11 July 2022 at 7:13 pm

                Totally agree with your views here and the precise way the innocent man and piece of shit are expressed

              • Jilly Bee …
                12 July 2022 at 1:14 pm

                I'm not absolutely sure to whom you're referring to. My doubts about both of these cases is; Peter Ellis – after ploughing through Lynley Hood's 'A City Possessed' and the recanting of evidence and treatment of the 'most credible' witness by various Police Officers, as well as the Newsroom article mentioned in this thread. As for Scott Watson – of course I'm not sure of his innocence or guilt – the evidence from the late Guy Wallace about the boat used by Scott Watson – he swore on oath that it was a ketch – the Police insisted it was a sloop. Did they say this to fit their narrative.

                • Puckish Rogue …
                  12 July 2022 at 1:49 pm

                  Was refers to Peter Ellis, is refers to Scott Watson.

                  Scott Watson is a complete prick, extremely arrogant and volatile, especially when he doesn't get his way

          • Patricia Bremner 1.1.3.1.2
            11 July 2022 at 1:35 pm

            Well I was 40 then, and it still worries me.

            • Jilly Bee 1.1.3.1.2.1
              11 July 2022 at 1:42 pm

              Me too Patricia Bremner – I have a good friend whose late father regularly visited Arthur Allan Thomas while he was imprisoned. He was sure of his innocence.

          • gsays 1.1.3.1.3
            11 July 2022 at 3:13 pm

            "Also more than 40 years ago. Could you update your examples to the 21st century, at least."

            Why?

            The lack of accountability is the same.

            Since you asked: Halatau Naitoko

      • Stuart Munro 1.1.4
        11 July 2022 at 11:24 am

        There have always been those that got carried away – but the vast majority mature over time to become solid citizens.

        An excess of enthusiasm and a lack of supervision causes problems in many occupations. It is to be hoped those concerned will learn the lesson well.

        • Patricia Bremner 1.1.4.1
          11 July 2022 at 1:44 pm

          No, failures were caused by the "Type" of personality chosen.

          Military background and macho values promoted

          Rotorua had a really bad group who caused a big scandal that went right to the top.

          Much as Goodfellow chose 5 ratbags in a row, the old boys club was operating as they swallowed the "Traffic Officers" and "Airforce". Boy did they choose some doozies as well.

          • Stuart Munro 1.1.4.1.1
            11 July 2022 at 2:18 pm

            I've run across my share of alpha folly, but, properly disciplined, these folk are not irredeemable. I'm inclined to rest much of the blame with command – who should be monitoring enough to detect and prevent the issue – not that that in any way excuses the perpetrators.

    • Anne 1.2
      11 July 2022 at 10:33 am

      Thanks for those links PLA.

      Racism and misogyny have been all too prevalent among the cops for decades. Many of us have found ourselves on the receiving end.

      It was once automatic for them to take claims made by women with a grain of salt. It happened to me 25 to 30 years ago and reading this story triggers the memory. I was so angry and upset with their attitude (which presented itself in demeaning ways) I kept a filled water pistol in the glove-box of my car. The plan was: next time a police car crawled up beside me with the passenger window down, they were going to get a blast of water in their faces. Fortunately for me a suitable opportunity never occurred. frown
      Seriously, I hope the police officers who were involved are themselves charged and brought to justice.

  2. Anker 2
    11 July 2022 at 9:14 am

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/129232736/health-reforms-are-missing-the-problems-at-the-coalface

    Northland GP writes about the Health reforms and the perilous state GP practices are in.

    Millions spent on health reform, while missing the real problems. “ with spending aimed at the bureaucracy, not the coalface, ultimately they (health reforms) will be a glaring monument to the ideology over practicality mantra”

    • PsyclingLeft.Always 2.1
      11 July 2022 at 9:22 am

      Now, Cunningham has told Reti his office has become a place to watch first hand as the country's whole health system falls over.

      https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/07/national-s-dr-shane-reti-fears-health-reforms-won-t-help-at-frontline.html

      Yep the NZ Health system is/has a problem. Not quite sure if Dr Geoff Cunningham or his mate Dr Reti are quite the right people to take as gospel…

      • Sabine 2.1.1
        11 July 2022 at 9:38 am

        NZ healthcare is hanging on the will of the good people still going to work every day.

        But yeah, Dr. Reti and the other fellow must not ge quite the right people to talk about healthcare and how it is delivered in NZ, and Northland specific due to what? Their political affiliation? Good grief. Do you check if the nurse that will give you a covid test is sufficiently lefty and ideologically approved, and if not, will you refuse their care?

        • PsyclingLeft.Always 2.1.1.1
          11 July 2022 at 9:45 am

          Just lol

        • Patricia Bremner 2.1.1.2
          11 July 2022 at 10:44 am

          Well I did not read of Dr. Reti complaining about the state of Whangarei's Hospital before there was a change of Govt.
          There has been a great deal of invective against the incumbents by Reti since, all of it political, so no I don't rate him.
          His medical credentials may be fine… but selective anger late in the piece feels false.

        • Anker 2.1.1.3
          11 July 2022 at 11:08 am

          Geniunely pleasedfor you and your partner Visu. And of course this speaks volummes about the worth of our highly competent health work force (most of them are, they train for a long time and as the article says, Drs are amongst our brightest and best. There is also serious avenues for review when things go wrong).

          I am pretty sure you are in Auckland, and as such, urban areas are less effected by the chronic GP shortage.

          100% to Sabine at 2.1.1.

          Reti is advocating for a third medical school amongst other things, a sign that he acknowledges we have a problem of insufficient Drs which will only get worse as more retire.

          I hate to say this, because I hear it through the grape vine that Andrew Little is a very nice man, but I think he is proving to be an utter failure as a health minister.

          If you read the article I posted this GP from Northland is talking about the funding system for GP s and how this is not keeping pace with inflation. How the most significant problem is shortages of rural GPs (higher rates of Maori).Littles health reforms are an example of ideology before seeing the bleeding obvious.

          • Sabine 2.1.1.3.1
            11 July 2022 at 1:55 pm

            I have met Andrew Little and can confirm that he comes across as likeable. I would have voted for him had he not thrown the towel in the corner in a 'too hard for me to win' desperation.

            I even believe that he is utterly honest in his quest to reform healthcare.

            Neither however changes anything on the fact that several years after leaving Auckland i still travel there for my GP and Dentist as locally no one admits patients anymore as they are full to the brink.

            We need more doctors and we need more nurses and that should not be a left or a right thing, but a common sense thing.

            As for Shane Reti, we are Year 3 in a global pandemic that does not seem to slow down, and i would guess that Reti has learned a few things since, evidenced by him going up north to vaccinate people rather then stay in wellington to blather about shit no one actually cares. Which means he is growing as a human being. But hey he is the wrong type of human being. Right? A politically right leaning human being, and i am sure our moralistic superior lefty commentators here would never ever go to such a doctor whilst ill. Right?

            • Patricia Bremner 2.1.1.3.1.1
              11 July 2022 at 3:09 pm

              Keep up Sabine. surprise Reti has been found to have presented an article with skewed health graphs. see PLA on Reti above at 2.1 1.2 1.1 Cheers

              Andrew Little realised he was a supporter not really a Leader who could inspire. As you say he is a good man. As to the Health Reforms, there is never a good time for change. He won sufficient Health vote to clear Hospital debt. That is huge.

            • Incognito 2.1.1.3.1.2
              11 July 2022 at 8:45 pm

              The only surgeon who’s allowed to operate on me is one with two Left hands.

        • Anker 2.1.1.4
          11 July 2022 at 11:11 am

          I think it is very important Sabine that all health professionals check that they use your (?she/her in your case) correct pro nouns and that all patients quiz all health professionals about their pro nouns and their committment to using them at all times (even when someone is under anaesthetic).

          Apparently the first email/notification to staff from our flash, politically correct new NZ Health included pro nouns!

    • AB 2.2
      11 July 2022 at 9:50 am

      He wants more and better-remunerated GPs. Add that to more and better-remunerated nurses, midwives, radiographers, junior hospital doctors, specialists, etc. And more drugs funded by Pharmac. Some of it will have to be done. But what about also asking the question: Why are so many people so sick before their time? and then aiming to eliminate poverty, financial insecurity, housing deprivation, despair and alienation – and regulating the food environment properly?

      • Anker 2.2.1
        11 July 2022 at 11:19 am

        AB do I detect some reluctance to pay health staff more money?

        Of course we have to pay them better. And we need to fund more drugs. Our track record on this is shocking .

        We know what the social and environmental factors are that mean some have worse health outcomes. We also know what personal/psychological factors mean some do better than other others health wise (I am referring here to what our wonderful Dunedin study found about this).

        Once illness is detected, the prognosis is most often better when intervention is early

        • Descendant Of Smith 2.2.1.1
          11 July 2022 at 2:25 pm

          AB do I detect some reluctance to pay health staff more money?

          I detect massive reluctance to pay more tax to pay health staff more money – pay for the upcoming super and healthcare costs for the elderly, pay beneficiaries the same as NZS….

          Dr Reti very nicely says he wants more money spent while working for a party who consistently takes away the money needed to pay for it. Maybe if he explained where he thinks the money will come from he might have more credibility. Until then he is just pissing in the wind.

  3. Visubversa 3
    11 July 2022 at 9:39 am

    I can only speak for my own experience – 2 weeks ago my partner went to the GP for a regular visit and mentioned a mole that had been identified by another health related service as warranting a medical examination. The GP took a picture of the mole and sent it to the relevant service at Green Lane Clinic. Within 2 days my partner had an email with an appointment at the Dermatology service for the following week. We duely turned up last Thursday, the mole was examined, photographed again and pronounced upon as not an immediate problem but to be looked at again in 3 months.

    All done and dusted within a fortnight. Excellent, joined up services from all the health professionals involved, and the system that supports them.

    • Graeme 3.1
      11 July 2022 at 10:27 am

      A somewhat different experience in Central Otago

      My partner had bowel surgery in Feb 20, done laparoscopically in Invercargill. Over the intervening she’s developed several large hernias that coincide with the incisions and is in a lot of pain

      After a lot of back and forth, denial and misdiagnosis she was finally referred to the hospital about a month ago by her GP. Got a letter last week saying the current wait is 14 weeks. We will then have a 400 km round trip to Invercargill for the appointment and my partner will have to deal with the hospital on her own as visitors and support aren’t allowed because of COVID

      Got serious doubts she will get through it.

      • PsyclingLeft.Always 3.1.1
        11 July 2022 at 10:57 am

        Graeme, I am very sorry to hear this. And I truly wish you all the Best.

      • Anker 3.1.2
        11 July 2022 at 11:12 am

        Really sorry to hear this Graeme. Cancer is cruel

        • Graeme 3.1.2.1
          11 July 2022 at 12:58 pm

          Unfortunately it’s not cancer, if it was there would be a lit more action. This is most likely post op stuff probably going back 10 years

          • Anker 3.1.2.1.1
            11 July 2022 at 1:23 pm

            So sorry Graeme. I made an incorrect assumption! My mind is on cancer a lot lately.

            Take care. Not good that you and your partner have to endure this

      • Patricia Bremner 3.1.3
        11 July 2022 at 11:17 am

        That is very hard Graeme. All the best to you both.

  4. Peter 4
    11 July 2022 at 9:55 am

    Saw a story straight out of "It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World."

    Some times you just have to shake your head.

    North Carolina Looks to Remove Public EV Chargers, Probably to the Trash

    A bill currently in the works in the North Carolina legislature would allocate $50,000 to get rid of free public EV chargers unless free gas pumps are built alongside.

    https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a40543385/north-carolina-wants-remove-free-public-ev-chargers/

  5. Patricia Bremner 5
    11 July 2022 at 10:51 am

    Please keep an eye on the weather. Keep safe all.

  6. DavidJ 6
    11 July 2022 at 11:36 am

    Te Pūkenga off to a great start. Not.

    "The organisation’s financial situation was a “significant concern”, with the Te Pūkenga group forecasting an at-least $110m full-year deficit. “This is $53.5m worse than budget ($56.5m deficit) and is predominantly due to lower provider-based enrolments,” she said."

    "These enrolments were down by 12% on the previous year. This decline is in strong contrast to Te Pūkenga’s 2022 budget, which assumed a 4% increase in enrolments.”

    Ok, that's (maybe) fair enough, but then there's this:

    "There appears to be minimal rationalisation/transformation planned as part of the organisation changes, which will see financial performance remain poor.”

    …and…

    "The 2021 annual report also showed one employee – evidently the chief executive – was earning an income of between $670,000 and $679,999. By comparison, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern is earning $471,049. A further five Te Pūkenga employees are earning between $380,000 and $451,000."

    So there is an "apparent lag in progress to get the new organisation up and running", a huge financial blowout.

    Clearly none of those people's pay were linked to performance.

    • Binders full of women 6.1
      11 July 2022 at 12:43 pm

      Surely the polytechnic clusterfuk is a reason to not 3Water.

        • Anker 6.1.1.1
          11 July 2022 at 1:26 pm

          Yes another reason

        • Jilly Bee 6.1.1.2
          11 July 2022 at 1:47 pm

          I am not able to read that tweet – maybe the author considers me to be too much of a bottom feeder to warrant consideration.

          • DavidJ 6.1.1.2.1
            11 July 2022 at 3:18 pm

            It's today's episode of the Mahuta whanau affair. Twitter is gobsmackingly toxic, but whoever the post is authored by has been very busy.

      • KJT 6.1.2
        11 July 2022 at 1:49 pm

        You know that Polytechnics were in trouble before this Government was even elected. Right?

        • Belladonna 6.1.2.1
          11 July 2022 at 2:08 pm

          Whatever was wrong, the merging of the polytechs into a uber-organization seems not to have fixed it.

          • KJT 6.1.2.1.1
            11 July 2022 at 2:39 pm

            I wouldn't expect it to in five minutes.

            • Belladonna 6.1.2.1.1.1
              11 July 2022 at 3:07 pm

              Hardly 5 minutes. April 2020 – so over 2 years in.

              While you could expect anomalous results in the first year – as new systems bed down; to have a projected loss (which, given enrolment patterns – is almost certainly an actual loss) of double an already generous estimate – indicates that whatever was systemically wrong with the previous structure has been inherited by the new one.

              More to the point, it appears that the senior leadership are abandoning ship – indicating that they have no faith in the organization, either.

              https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/300633044/mega-polytech-te-pkenga-boss-on-personal-leave-for-unspecified-period

              "Dudgeon’s grim memo to Hipkins – which is dated May 16 but was published on the commission’s website late last week – sets out the details of Te Pūkenga’s troubles in stark detail."

              "Hipkins’ own handwritten notes on the memo revealed he shared Dudgeon’s trepidation over Te Pukenga’s management and ability to get itself out of its financial hole "

              https://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/129230563/damning-report-reveals-financial-meltdown-at-new-mega-polytech-te-pkenga

              But, in May, Hipkins was blithely telling us – nothing to see here, move right along.

              ‘‘So we do have to give them time and support to make sure they are getting to the bottom of the structural problems that they inherited from the 16 component organisations that make up Te Pukenga to make sure we get the sector back into a viable state.

              ‘‘I expect that we will see the delivery of a significantly better sector, but that is going to take some time.’’

              https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/southland/polytech-merger-deficit-horrendous-waste

              The reference to the 2021 surplus is also disingenuous – as it was (according to the deputy CEO – the last woman standing) almost entirely due to the Covid-subsidies that government provided to the tertiary sector.

              • DavidJ …
                11 July 2022 at 3:44 pm

                From your ODT link, Otago Polytechnic chief executive Dr Megan Gibbons:

                "Putting learners at the forefront is to be applauded — as is the focus on strengthening our commitments to the Treaty of Waitangi and our partnerships with iwi."

                But not, as Chris Hipkins points out, on 'immediate financial sustainability', or for that matter getting the structure up and running 'on schedule'.

              • KJT …
                11 July 2022 at 3:58 pm

                Having had to actually implement major changes in an organisation. Nowhere near as large or complicated as Polytechnics. BTW.

                Two years is a totally unrealistic time span to expect results.

                Noting. It took a long time for the results of right wing meddling to destroy them.

                • Belladonna …
                  11 July 2022 at 4:14 pm

                  Glad to hear that you feel there is nothing to worry over. No doubt Chris Hipkins will look forward to receiving your valuable advice on this issue.

                  He doesn't appear to be too happy with the progress…..

                • DavidJ …
                  11 July 2022 at 7:32 pm

                  "Two years is a totally unrealistic time span to expect results."

                  That's a fair comment, but progress toward achieving results is measurable. Progress so far seems to be lot's of overpaid bureaucrats, not a lot of delivery. And that's a picture emerging from NZTA as well just quietly.

                  • Incognito …
                    11 July 2022 at 9:03 pm

                    Instead of parroting one article in MSM without thinking and further analysis you could read the actual report first and then perhaps try writing a more informed and considered comment. As it stands, you’re just a gullible armchair critic who’s simply too lazy to put a bit of effort into their contributions on this site.

                    https://www.tec.govt.nz/assets/Ministerial-papers/AM-22-00207-Te-Pukenga-monitoring-report-March-2022-quarter-FINAL-004_Redacted.pdf

                    • DavidJ …
                      11 July 2022 at 9:17 pm

                      Thanks for the link. It shows how bad things really are, and confirms the MSM article was on the money, so to speak.

                      “Te Pūkenga budgeted for a group deficit of in
                      2022. Te Pūkenga is now forecasting a group deficit of $110.0 million due to lower-than-expected domestic enrolments across the ITP subsidiaries. If achieved, this would be larger than any deficit recorded across the ITP sector. We continue to be concerned that little work has been undertaken to improve Te Pūkenga’s financial position and a strategy to improve its long-term sustainability has yet to be put in place. Te
                      Pūkenga note that a strategy is expected to be developed in the third quarter of 2022”.

                    • DavidJ …
                      11 July 2022 at 10:21 pm

                      So I've gone through the full memo. Thanks again for the link. Here's my informed and considered feedback.

                      The government first announced the ITP merger in February 2019. The (immediate past) CEO commenced with Te Pūkenga in July 2020.

                      In February 2022, a strategic review of the transformation programme was undertaken based on “concerns around a lack of progress”.

                      The overall conclusion of that review was that “the programme as currently configured will not meet the Minister’s expectations, as we understand them, for 1 January 2023, unless there is a clear intervention of additional resources with an appropriate mandate”. Not a good start.

                      The document you linked to is the memo referred to in the Stuff article, which reviews the TP March 2022 quarterly report.

                      The memo begins by publishing a RAG status summary, analysing 11 key work streams. Of the 11, 5 had moved forward, 4 were unchanged and 2 had gone backwards. I'll be measured and suggest this isn't exactly inspiring. However my original post was about financial aspects of TP, so I'll refer you specifically to the content under Financial Performance, and highlight this comment:

                      "We continue to be concerned that little work has been undertaken to improve Te Pūkenga’s financial position and a strategy to improve its long-term sustainability has yet to be put in place. Te Pūkenga note that a strategy is expected to be developed in the third quarter of 2022."

                      I'll be less measured here and say this is corporate code for 'pull finger'.

                      The memo then reviewed the recommendations of the strategic review undertaken in February. This review covers 7 recommendations. Items 2 and 4 contain notes by Minister Hipkins highlighting concerns. Item 6 questions progress on key elements of the ‘transformation’. Again, back to my original point, Hipkins notes this as his #1 concern:

                      “We are concerned that there appears to be minimal rationalisation/transformation planned as part of the organisational changes which will see financial performance remain poor. Te Pūkenga consider more restructuring will occur later as part of system rationalisation.”

                      The section titled Financial Performance then outlines a series of concerns, including:

                      1. enrolments ‘are down’
                      2. cash reserves are ‘expected to fall’
                      3. overall financial reporting remains poor’
                      4. we ‘continue to have serious concerns about Te Pūkenga’s future sustainability’, and
                      5. continue to assess the Te Pūkenga group as ‘high risk’’.

                      It's horrible. Hipkins and Gillian Dudgeon have their work cut out.

  7. joe90 7
    11 July 2022 at 1:59 pm

    The air that we breathe.

    At 5737ppm, the equivalent of one in every seven breaths I took on the bus was air other people had breathed out. I texted a friend: "OMG, the readings are so high I may as well let the other passengers lick my face!"

    I was being a little gross, because even according to a scientist, it is a little gross.

    "You can think of it as spit particles, tiny spit particles are what you are breathing in," says University of Auckland aerosol chemist Dr Joel Rindelaub. "It's breath backwash that gets people infected."

    He doesn't endorse passenger face-licking, but when CO2 inside the bus is 5737ppm he jokes, "it probably wouldn't even hurt, right?"

    The level of CO2 outdoors is about 420ppm. Rindelaub says a good indoor reading would be anything below 800ppm. This is also the level suggested by the United States Centers for Disease Control for indoor spaces as a benchmark for good ventilation. When readings get above 1000ppm there could be a high risk of Covid-19 transmission if someone in the space is infected.

    "If you're above 2000, then that's a huge red flag."

    High CO2 levels don't automatically mean you're going to catch Covid-19 – there has to be infected particles in the space, but they can indicate poor ventilation and a likelihood of high particle levels, if no filtration is used.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/470690/whose-breath-are-you-breathing

    • Belladonna 7.1
      11 July 2022 at 2:26 pm

      And a large part of the reason that the majority of my friends who work in the CBD, continue to work from home, or, if their presence is absolutely essential, drive in and work pays for parking. Admittedly (due to age) mostly mid-to-late career professionals – who have that option and leverage on their employers.

      None. Not one. Would take the bus – even though the majority were regular bus users pre-Covid.

      Ferry is perceived as slightly less risky – you can stand outside – but still have to navigate through the crush of people in the ferry buildings on boarding/disembarking.

  8. newsense 8
    11 July 2022 at 9:23 pm

    World according to Chris: it’s over COVID and not at all battening down the hatches as the graphs swing upward once more with prior vaccinations working poorly against the new variant.

    He’s been over to get the leadership advice of the Tory party- Osborne and Cameron whose hubris and austerity gave us Brexit and Boris who caused far too many Britons to die from Covid through lackadaisical leadership. So- worry about Chris because of his heroes.

    And also his own words about business- they’re not doing it for themselves and they’re soft because the government is helping them so his government will be the government that will back them but presumably not help them. Or something.

    Here’s the RNZ story

  9. Jenny how to get there 9
    12 July 2022 at 4:42 am

    '

    Frogs gather to talk about the rising heat.

    'Is it getting hot in here?'

    No mention of climate change, no mention of turning the heat down by cutting emissions,

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-uk-weather-amber-warning-27452063#source=push
    And so it goes.

  10. Jenny how to get there 10
    12 July 2022 at 5:04 am

    A while ago while I was driving to work, and stuck in rush hour traffic slowly moving through the traffic lights. Watching all these people in their cars going about their business. I pondered what would happen if the fuel supply was just simply cut off, how would all these people get to work.

    Now I know. People are inventive, and resilient, and imaginative.

    Nothing would stop them getting to where they wanted to go.

    https://theprint.in/world/charred-coconut-shell-stoves-cycling-5-hacks-helping-sri-lankans-survive-economic-crisis/1033985/?

  11. Jenny how to get there 11
    12 July 2022 at 5:24 am

    A true leader, leads from the front, often ahead of their followers on many issues, not afraid to try to win their followers over and give a lead forward, even if it makes them unpopular. We saw that with this country’s leader over the vaccine mandates,

    Used to feeding and inflaming their base emotions and prejudices and inciting the mob for his own ends, Trump’s not that sort of leader.

    "….scared to say the word “vaccine” in front of his own supporters."

    As has been so often noted, bullies are also mostly cowards.

    https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/trump-finds-one-word-ll-no-longer-say-followers-rcna37579?cid=nt_npd_ms_as_ms_220127

  12. Jenny how to get there 12
    12 July 2022 at 5:58 am

    The reason why the Right will have a resurgence is because the Left continuously refuses to follow through and falls short.

    But there is still time for Democrats to move ahead. We reviewed each of their big policy items, why they failed, and scored (out of 5) their chance of passage before the midterms:

    https://www.businessinsider.com/why-democrats-cant-pass-bidens-agenda-2022-7

    Guess what. Not one of Biden's promises has 5 out 5 chance of being passed.

    Voting rights & democracy reform: Chances of priority passing before the midterms: 1/5

    Police reform: Chances of priority passing before the midterms: 0/5

    Enshrining abortion rights nationally: Chances of priority passing before the midterms: 0/5

    The economy and climate: Chances of priority passing before the midterms: 2/5

    Expanding healthcare coverage: Chances of priority passing before the midterms: 3/5

    By all measures this is a failure for the Left and why people look to the Right for solutions to their problems.

    • Maurice 12.1
      12 July 2022 at 6:33 am

      The Left's great dilemma …. when doing "something" and failing is just as damaging as doing nothing and doing anything half effective is seen as "progressive"and needs must be reversed by the Right.

      Oh – and both forgetting that the worm always turns ….. and another Trump always lurks in the future!

      • Jenny how to get there 12.1.1
        12 July 2022 at 12:28 pm

        I agree. Half effective "progressive" policy, gives the progressive movement a bad name. Pretty much guaranteeing the lurking future Trump at the levers of power. With even worse outcomes, than the first one.

        • Maurice 12.1.1.1
          13 July 2022 at 2:40 pm

          Yep – and all supported by a legion taught to hate and demand UTU …. in which the Left are mere pikers compared to the Far Right