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Open mike 10/07/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 10th, 2022 - 75 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

75 comments on “Open mike 10/07/2022 ”

    • Patricia Bremner 1.1

      Scotty, I remember her line to Judith Collins, "You went to Charm school didn't you?'

      and at the result of the 2017 seats, "Tamatai Coffee, he was just a weatherman wasn't he?"

    • Blade 1.2

      Dave looked like Bill Rowling reincarnated. He's right about the IRD. The American equivalent is considered by some to be the most powerful government office in the USA.

      However, Dave's point, free from the tinkering of Rebecca's quest for meaning, was to put the IRD onto these gangsters.

      That'd be a drawn out affair with the likes of the Mongrel Mob. But for the more sophisticated bikie gangs who run small business fronts, it could be a goldmine.

      All this presupposes the IRD has the capacity to start such an endeavour . According to ex IRD employees who have rung talkback, the department now lacks experienced staff. This link hints at that scenario.


      • Craig H 1.2.1

        It is already a legal requirement for criminals to file tax returns and pay tax on their ill-gotten gains, and IRD do enforce that to some extent. Smart criminals pay tax because if they don't, IRD can do warrantless searches and seizures for information e.g. computers. IRD take the police with them for safety, and then the police can obtain a real warrant based on what they see while escorting IRD.

  1. joe90 2

    tl,dr: The Economist was all-in on throwing lefties out of helicopters.

    In defending the 1980 Pinochet-era constitution, The Economist, however, probably ought to note how much the magazine played an active role in not only overthrowing Chilean democracy 50 years ago, but how much it propped up and defended the subsequent dictatorship known for right-wing death squads and mass killings.

    In his stellar 2019 book, Liberalism at Large: The World According to the Economist, historian Alexander Zevin describes in detail how The Economist was not a passive player in the 1973 right-wing coup against the democratically elected President Salvador Allende, but a meaningful and active participant.


    • KJT 2.1

      The economist has been a cheer leader for Neo-Liberal disasters, corporate takeover, privatisation and abrogation of democracy, all around the world, including NZ, for decades.

  2. Foreign waka 3

    You can tell what kind of country you live in in they way children are born and raised and old people end their lives.


    "New Zealand has one of the worst records of child abuse in the developed world – Unicef".


    Seems only the rich will be able to afford a safe birth, life and dying time.

    Millions are thrown at consultants, appointed by incompetent politicians allocated portfolios that you could give a monkey with the same outcome.

    It is no surprise that the exodus of young and educated will only increase.


    "Annual net migration: loss of 7,600 (± 700), down from a net gain of 9,500 (± 30)"

    Wakey wakey

    • Rosemary McDonald 3.1

      omment @ 4 was in reply to this. Reply button didn't work. Thanks for posting this Fw.

    • Incognito 3.2

      From your link:

      The provisional net migration loss of 7,600 in the year ended February 2022 was driven by a net loss of 9,700 non-New Zealand citizens, partly offset by a net gain of 2,100 New Zealand citizens.

      This continues a reversal of historical patterns. New Zealand has usually had an annual net migration gain of non-New Zealand citizens and an annual net migration loss of New Zealand citizens.

      This doesn't seem to agree with what you’re saying.

      • fender 3.2.1

        LOL, thanks for clearing that up Incognito.

        Maybe FW is just saying goodbye.

      • RedLogix 3.2.2

        Then again you seem to have overlooked a certain global event that took place prior to 'year ended Feb 2022' that might just have driven these unusual migration patterns.

        Compared to most other nations on earth, NZ remains one of the top 20 or so more desirable countries to live in. It certainly is no hell-hole. But Australia is better, and if recent announcements make residency in Aus more accessible and attractive, then it's not hard to see this Feb 2022 result reversing back to the historic pattern again. And fairly quickly.

        • Incognito


        • lprent

          Working in Italy, Singapore and Australia was what I did for the last 7 years – didn't mean that I had to move there. I had to visit for extended periods as the places I was working were off the net.

          Changed jobs to get rid of the need to travel. Currently mostly working in the US market. Definitely not moving there, or even visiting.

          There are large parts of the economy like that these days. It isn’t even unusual any more.

          • RedLogix

            Yes – specific high end technical skills are truly global right now. If I cared to be chasing the big projects there is literally no place on earth where I probably could not find an attractive role. Even without moving employer I could move back to NZ and still do well.

            But for the majority of kiwis, especially on the median income or less, Australia is still a very good bet if their cards line up right. I am still seeing wages 30% higher and a cost of living that is either much the same or even lower. And beyond that, for anyone with the smallest sense of wanting to do better, there is literally 10 times more opportunity for that here than in NZ.

            • lprent

              Australia is still a very good bet if their cards line up right…

              Sure, there are a number of relatives who have settled in Aussie for exactly those reasons over the decades. They're mostly involved in service industries of one form or another focused on the internal Aussie market. The same as if they were here. But there are risks, a common reason for seeing my resident relatives there is when they come back to NZ to get routine hospital care.

              I have never had any particular reason to go there because I'm simply not that interested in money. I'm much more focused on what I'm working on. I realise that is more the exception than the rule. I have zero interest in the services or internal markets here or there. I like doing development for a international.

              As far as I'm concerned, Aussie had and still has exactly the same structural economic problems as NZ had – it is just bigger and far more involved in their internal market.

              Sure I can make more money in Aussie – in the order of 50% or more. But it is pretty much the same here, all I have to do is to change the type of work that I will accept.

              Plus I looked at it decades ago when I was still deciding what I'd want to work on. Then I decided that I simply didn't like Aussie as a place to live in after being there for a while. There are some really obnoxious Aussies who seem to have their intellect firmly embedded up their own arse. It seems to be a common opinion on an international scale, everyone relaxes offshore when they realise that I or groups that I was with were kiwis rather than aussies – especially in Singapore.

              I was planning on heading to somewhere like Canada or the US before the internet opened up in the early 1990s. Then I realised that it wouldn't be too long before I could work from here. So I stayed.

  3. Rosemary McDonald 4

    Time to do the maths….

    Assisted dying – kicking us when we’re down

    For many palliative care workers, the introduction of fully-funded euthanasia rubbed salt in the wound of neglect.

    As at February, the Health Ministry had six full-time positions dedicated to assisted dying. It has no-one dedicated to palliative care. (The ministry says palliative care work is spread across multiple teams.)

    The Government allocated $11.9m to fully fund assisted dying for an estimated 350 Kiwis a year.

    Compared to…

    New Zealand’s 32 hospices look after about 20,000 patients and their whānau a year, or about 30% of dying Kiwis. But of their 2021 running costs of about $176 million, only $88 million came from the government.

    Is there another conclusion to draw other than that this government is actively encouraging assisted dying?

    How the palliative care doctors interviewed for this piece avoided shouting "WE TOLD YOU SO!!!" … ???


    • RedLogix 4.1

      Been through all of this very recently myself. The short answer is that enabling the frail and elderly to off themselves is one hell of a lot cheaper than allowing their lives to take it's course.

      But then in a world where there are no absolute moral boundaries on the value of a human life, it is no surprise they keep on being shifted.

      • Populuxe1 4.1.1

        Is there some sadistic moral thrill in watching someone forced to endure a horrible painful humiliating drawn out death that I'm just not appreciating?

        • Belladonna

          Probably the same sadistic thrill in watching someone being hounded into 'voluntarily' asking for euthanasia to 'spare the family'

          People are not always nice. Sometimes family members can be the most sadistic – as you can see here:


          Many people disagree with euthanasia personally – their 'right' to the death they want is just as valid as the 'right' of the person who wants to shuffle off the mortal coil at a time that suits them.

          • Populuxe1

            Isn't it wonderful that one doesn't negate the other

            • Foreign waka

              I think the key is dignity. In all cases it should be maintained and the patient should have the last word.

              What I observe is a brutalising of society with it the abject neglect and respect of the vulnerable. The consequence comes with an ethical decay and the loss of valuing life. So it should not come as a surprise that for every child that dies horrifically an excuse is found instead of a standard of behaviour reinforced. Some elderly persons are neglected to a degree that is disgusting in a so called "civilised" society. Again, excuses are found and judgements are made on behalf (how dare) for that neglected person because it is ..convenient. The lack of resources for key services and at the same time the waste of money for pet projects, political agendas etc.. is just reinforcing that it is ok to just don't give a damn.

              • RedLogix

                Yes. I agree with this very much.

                And dignity goes well beyond mere physical considerations. My father made it clear a number of times in the past two years that he found the prospect of endless social isolation due to COVID regulations far more distressing than the prospect of a death he knew was not too far off.

                In the end we were incredibly fortunate – he hung on with a grim determination and we all managed to be there with him on his last day. It all came together almost miraculously well, everyone who needed to be there was and we actually had a remarkably uplifting afternoon. Sudden death is quite different – there is shock at the unexpected loss – but for us we had gone through the grief little by little well before his last day.

                So while his last two years were tough and difficult, in the end he left this world on his own terms with his dignity intact.

                • swordfish


                  Very pleased to hear that, RL. Pleased for both your father and for you & the family.

                  • RedLogix

                    My father used to joke that he had a special 'parking gene' that worked so that wherever he went a magic parking spot would open up right outside the place he was going to. Same with pretty much any travel – good luck all the way.

                    Well we reckon he saved the best for the last – and all of us got very lucky just when we needed to. yes

                • foreign waka

                  My condolences, albeit belated. It sounds like your dad had a good farewell and you and your family can take comfort in that.

                  My best wishes.

        • RedLogix

          Well having just gone through this myself this past fortnight – the answer is that you definitely feel immensely relieved when it is over. And there was no 'sadistic pleasure' either. None of us get out of this world scot-free, and dying is rarely an easy passage, although the staff took care to minimise the physical suffering.

          In my father's case he went through a very bad patch 11 years ago, and the doctors told us he was going to die then. Instead he defied the odds and lived on another reasonably healthy six years, including one last trip to visit us in Australia. The euthanasia option taken back then would have robbed him of that.

          It is very understandable that many of us fear death. Nor in our modern, very safe world we do not encounter it face to face often enough to come to terms with it. Paradoxically enough dying is one of life's last and enduring mysteries – and personally I am of a view we should not seek too much control over it.

    • Incognito 4.2

      Is there another conclusion to draw other than that this government is actively encouraging assisted dying?


      False dichotomies lead to wrong questions and wrong answers.

      The service involves specific steps, medical assessments, and important safeguards. These are to ensure a person is eligible and that they are making the decision for themselves, without pressure from anyone else. The framework for the service, its eligibility criteria and safeguards, are set out in the law, called the End of Life Choice Act 2019. The Assisted Dying Service is overseen by the Ministry of Health Manatū Hauora.


      Palliative care is care for people of all ages with a life-limiting condition.

      https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/life-stages/palliative-care and https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/life-stages/palliative-care/key-palliative-care-organisations

      Can you spot the difference?

  4. Poission 5

    Sri Lanka's experiment in Lysenkoism fails as Government falls.


    • joe90 5.1

      An initiative to establish productive systems that are self sustaining, require little external inputs, and that focus on ecological cycles like those that build soil rather than mechanistic systems that artificially force growth and produce large amounts of pollution was a fucking crock?

      Who woulda thunk it.


      • Poission 5.1.1

        They could not produce enough food to sustain their own diets,let alone sufficient exports for foreign exchange.

    • RedLogix 5.2

      This is deglobalisation right under our noses.

      The big takeaway is what happens when you stop industrial fertiliser in an abrupt or unplanned fashion. Successful transition to organics takes both skill and time – what this govt did was to take sledgehammer to their agricultural base and expect it to work better.

      • Poission 5.2.1

        You also need to reduce the population to the new carrying capacity of the foodbase,and the economic constraints,of a munted export base. .

        • RedLogix

          Well that is mostly the point of the clip I linked to above.

          It is my sense that if done carefully and with enough time to correct the mistakes, that a transition to organic based agriculture does not have to be necessarily catastrophic. But many places are not going to get that luxury.

          • mikesh

            The bulk of the food sold in supermarkets is probably processed junk food in any case – too much sugar and insufficient fibre.

            • RedLogix

              On that we both agree. Industrial ag and food systems have certainly delivered a lot of calories but still have a ways to go on the quality side.

  5. Patricia Bremner 6

    So a National Act Government would bring back Charter Schools. Guess they would bring back Tuck Shops pies and fizzy drinks and School Fees as well.

    • In Vino 6.1

      And caning.

      They aren't soft on crime!

      • Tiger Mountain 6.1.1

        Beyond irony and knowing amusement really, Baldrick going to UK to investigate Charter Schools!

    • Belladonna 6.2

      Having seen the kids going into the local dairies and supermarkets before school (and again after school, for that matter) – cutting out tuck shop pies and soft-drinks has been a total failure in diet management (the stated goal). The kids have the cash and control over where they spend it. They aren't listening to the Government (or the dietitians, for that matter).

      Realistically, the ban only ever affected secondary schools (very, very few primary schools ever had tuck shops). And, by that age, the damage has already been done.

      • Patricia Bremner 6.2.1

        Those children choose that life, just as anti everything do. vax.. masks…. laws etc. That does not negate the government efforts nor make the actions less valuable.

        • Belladonna

          Just saying that the policy demonstrably doesn't work: tons of kids buying junk food from shops bracketing schools; no decrease in childhood obesity; no improvement in health stats (though, admittedly, those might take some time to show up – but you'd expect to see some glimmers of change).

          When a policy fails to achieve the stated goals, of course the actions are "less valuable". Unless you regard it as a 'moral imperative' rather than a piece of effective policy.

          Really, the only change that will make any difference, is for families to be preparing and cooking good quality meals (5+ veg a day) at home; and cutting junk food (sugary drinks, lollies, chips, especially – the odd meat pie isn't such a bad thing) out of their household budgets.

          That requires a whole raft of changes to our social structure: everything from increased budgets (those fruit/veges aren't exactly cheap), to education (how to cook flavourful & nutritional meals that kids will eat & how to transition family favourites or heritage meals (e.g. corned beef) to being treat food), to time and infrastructure costs (who can cook the meals, and do you have stove/equipment/electricity, etc.)., to more education (just why this change in diet/lifestyle is so important).

          It's the kind of lifestyle change that simplistic 'ban the fizzy drink' doesn't even approach.

          • Patricia Bremner

            Belladonna, apart from "your neighbourhood" what proof do you have that the system of lunches in schools is a failure?

          • Incognito

            Some schools have outsourced the tuck shop, in part because profit margins tend to be rather marginal.

            If kids continue to make bad choices is that an argument not to bother at all and bring back or provide them with bad food choices at school? It is not clear what you’re arguing for other than that you want to argue against something here.

            Some kids spend an awful lot of money on food at school each and every day, money they get from their loving doting parents who don’t want to be perceived as stingy and considered cringy.

          • Muttonbird

            You'd like to increase marketing for corned beef? That's fine, but you also have to decrease marketing for Maccas.

      • Anne 6.2.2

        So you're saying Belladonna that the school kids are going into shops and buying junk food outside of school hours and that means government attempts to introduce healthy foods into their lives through the schools are a failure and a waste of time? I suggest the 'failure' lies with the parents who give their children the money to buy the junk in the first place.

        • Populuxe1

          For all you know they have a paper route or a weekend job stocking shelves at the local supermarket and are spending their own money.

        • Belladonna

          Yep. Pretty much. If the goal is for the kids not to be eating junk food on a daily basis then this policy has been a failure.

          Agree about poor parenting decisions – but that that's not usually an opinion that flies well on TS.

          • joe90

            Pretty sure the goal was to stop schools enabling the shitty choices their pupils make.

            • Belladonna

              If so, hasn't worked. Pupils still making the shitty choices. Just that the money (which used to go to supporting school activities – like sports uniforms) now goes to businesses (dairies) and corporates (supermarkets)

              • joe90

                Contributing to the poor health of some kids is okay because it benefits other kids?

          • Patricia Bremner

            No the goal Belladonna, was to take the stigma of no food at school away. Parents still need to monitor other food choices.

            • Belladonna

              ??? How can removing sweet drinks and pies from the tuckshop take the stigma of no food at school away?

              Are you confusing this with the provision of free school lunches?

              • Patricia Bremner

                Both things go together. You made blanket statements that removing tuck shops was a waste of time, and it stopped funding for sport. Lol. How diametrically opposed is that?

                Schools with the lunch programme have it for all, and it reinforces tasty and nutritious foods and saves money. Oh, and I can not measure the junk food consumed in your neighbourhood. That is your concern you raised and used as proof, rather tenuously.

  6. Joe90 7

    I suspect Baldrick's gone to the UK to worship at the shrine of St Birbalsingh.


    • Patricia Bremner 7.1

      devil Yes just so, Joe90. Luxon shows a complete lack of original ideas and a huge reliance on the wacky baccy of his running mate Seymour..

  7. Jenny how to get there 8

    If you have Netflix

    Just in case you ever get invited to colonise Mars with Elon Musk.

    Watch the Black Mirror episode. USS Callister for a taste of what it would be like.

    USS Callister

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    By day, Robert Daly is the CTO of a tech-entertainment company, but by night he is in his own private cinematic universe — based on a TV show he watched as a child — as the commander of a starship exploring new worlds.

  8. joe90 9

    I guess they think their main man's a blue eyed fella, too.


    As our team interviewed Christians of color across the U.S., we heard a similar and painful story repeated: White Christians, by their actions, seem to favor being white over being Christian. Christians of color cited many instances of that type of behavior, national and local, communal and personal. We wondered if this was the case empirically and, if so, why. As we tested the hypothesis, we found a plethora of evidence substantiating what we heard.

    My co-author Glenn Bracey and I are proposing a theory in our forthcoming book, The Grand Betrayal: Most church-attending white Christians are not bad Christians. This is because they are not Christian at all. Instead, we propose they are faithful followers of a different religion: the “religion of whiteness.”


    We found this pattern over and over again: White practicing Christians differed from Christians of other racial groups and from non-Christian whites whenever the topic was race. For example, white practicing Christians are twice as likely as other whites to say “being white” is important to them and twice as likely as other whites to say they feel the need to defend their race. Through extensive statistical analyses, we found that two-thirds of practicing white Christians are following, in effect, a religion of whiteness. They repeatedly placed being white ahead of being Christian; the findings were not explained away by political affiliation, location, age, education, income, gender, or other factors.


    • Ad 9.1

      White Europeans are a fast declining minority in the Auckland Catholic church. White by hair colour obviously 😀

      It's all a black-haired immigrant majority.

      • Joe90 9.1.1

        Yup. The full monty requiem jobbie I attended a while back in Taranaki was a noticably salt and pepper affair. Mostly pepper in likely the saltiest community in the NI.

  9. Poission 10

    Sleaze,spad shaggers,and psychos,the race for the keys to no 10,The Michael Dobbs plots already laid out for a new triology.

    • Maurice 10.1

      …. so all the candidates are politicians then?

      Rotten to the Core ……

      No surprises there!

  10. Joe90 11

    What's more likely, Poots uses nukes or crew of pissed Russian squadies trigger a nuclear accident?

    The Russian army is transforming Europe’s largest nuclear power plant into a military base overlooking an active front, intensifying a monthslong safety crisis for the vast facility and its thousands of staff.


    The new infusion of weaponry effectively shields the plant from a counterattack by Ukrainian forces, and amounts to something the carefully regulated atomic-energy industry has never seen before: the slow-motion transformation of a nuclear power station into a military garrison. In a lesser-scrutinized aspect of its war strategy, the Russian army is day-by-day positioning the weaponry around a nuclear plant that is among the world’s largest, using it to cement control of the front line where their advance through southern Ukraine ground to a halt.


    Last week, the United Nations’ nuclear regulator was in the dark for three days about conditions inside Zaporizhzhia, after its data connection to the plant went offline before being restored. That marked the second time since Russia’s invasion that the International Atomic Energy Agency’s Vienna headquarters has lost its feed from the cameras and instruments that normally relay security footage and safety readings from the vast complex.


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    6 days ago
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  • Speech to the Climate Change and Business Conference
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