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Open mike 11/11/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 11th, 2022 - 99 comments
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99 comments on “Open mike 11/11/2022 ”

  1. On the 11th hour of the 11day of the 11th month the guns fell silent. Armistice Day WW1.

    Der Elfte Elfte

    (Hopefully I have the article correct ….Sabine?)

    I was in Germany one 11/11.

  2. Visubversa 2

    It is also my parents wedding anniversary – they were married on 11/11/1945. The wedding pictures show my father still in Army uniform as although WW2 was over, he did not actually get "demobbed" until 1946. He had been working in malaria control in the Pacific during the later years of the war and when he returned from there, he was sent to the refugee camp for Polish children in Pahiatua to work with those suffering from malaria.

  3. Ad 3

    Does anyone want to have a crack at going through the different kinds of "left" now installed in government throughout central and south America?

    It's a bizarre variety.

  4. Very thankful, for the sake of this young girl – that the Oranga Tamariki appeal has been dismissed.


    I feel that it was deeply wrong for OT to have appealed this case in the first place. Children are not a football in the game for state agencies to challenge decisions they don't agree with.

    • Molly 4.1

      From the article, biological mother’s lawyer:
      "When you consider that time compared to a lifetime of being culturally disconnected, then that risk of potential problems with a properly managed transition pales into insignificance,” she said."

      Having close friends involved with both fostercare and permanent placement, it is apparent that much of the focus of OT is redirected away from the children in their care.

      There is – however – statistical evidence for a higher degree of disconnect for adults brought up in non-biological families. It occurs even if loving acceptance was the norm. So, any research showing that "cultural disconnect" is significant needs to take this underlying factor into account.

      In this case, the resultant distress caused to such a young child after four years of attachment should have been obvious. Unfortunately, my friends experienced worse.

      • Belladonna 4.1.1

        It's also a rubbish argument, when comparing 'cultural connectedness' with children who remain with their biological families. I know of dozens of families with Maori whakapapa who are thoroughly 'culturally disconnected' (in this context, that always means from traditional Maori culture – connectedness to other cultures is ignored). Does OT propose to remove all of those children and place them with culturally appropriate caregivers? /sarc/

        Some of those children may choose to explore that side of their ancestry when they grow up.

        The most important thing for any child in foster care or adoption (actually in any family whether biological or not) is that they be safe, secure, cared for, and loved. That should be OT's number one priority. Of course, family placement should be considered first (although, frequently they don't meet the criteria for the same reasons the parents don't).

        OT have enough issues to work on to ensure their caregivers meet the basic criteria – without vindictively pursuing excellent and loving caregivers through the court system in what appears to be an attempt to vindicate the bias of a social worker.


        NB: this case also outlines why some parents should not have control over appropriate placement for their children.

    • Anne 4.2

      I recall a similar case a few years back. Don't think it was the same one but same situation:

      A little Maori girl was with Pakeha foster parents who were in the throes of adopting her. They loved her dearly and were doing everything they could to make sure she grew up knowing her Maori heritage and ensuring she had ties to her whanau.

      A media video of the actual moment she was taken away from those 'parents' broke my heart into a thousand pieces – a little girl sobbing her heart out being removed from the only 'parents' she had known.

      I can't imagine what it did to that little one. I think she was four or five years old at the time.

      • Molly 4.2.1

        I think there's been a few reports over the years since that cultural policy was introduced (a couple of decades ago?).

        A depressingly repetitive scenario.

      • Belladonna 4.2.2

        True family-by-marriage story.
        Mother of 3 kids – is basically incompetent (drug issues, gang/criminal connections, evidence of sexual abuse of the children by the men in her life, basic lack of care and parenting). OT have thrown more than $500K and counting – at her in an attempt to remedy the situation. It hasn't worked. You have to want to change, in order for change to happen.
        In the meantime, the kids have been in and out of foster care multiple times (at least 5 I'm aware of) – since they were babies/toddlers – they're now in their teens. The kids have AFAICS lost any ability to attach to anyone, and any trust that any adult in their life is there for the long term. And, I can see the cycle beginning all over again – the oldest, at 16 is pregnant – the 'father' (TBH, really a sperm donor – he demonstrates no 'fatherly' traits) wants nothing to do with her or the baby – and she has zero ability to look after herself, let alone a baby. She is clinging to the idea that finally, someone will love her (the baby). We all can see how that tragedy is going to play out.

        The best possible result for those kids would have been for them to have been placed in permanent foster (or adoptive) care as babies/toddlers. Preferably with no contact with the mother – who is a profoundly destabilizing influence. Then they would have had a chance at a decent life. They sure don't have much of a shot at one now.

  5. Molly 5

    School dress code appears to have been approved by the Ontario School Board:


    "“It is clear from the above analysis that the implementation of a formal staff dress code or grooming standards would likely expose the Board to considerable liability,” said the report in conclusion. “Even if a dress code is implemented for non-discriminatory reasons, it would likely be found to be discriminatory where it adversely affects an employee or group of employers on the basis of their Code-protected rights.”

    In other words, if a male’s gender identity is female and the expression of that gender identity involves wearing pornographic fetish gear in a classroom full of children, the Ontario Human Rights Code protects that individual’s right to do so and the school is powerless to protect the children in their care from such inappropriate behavior."

    • Visubversa 5.1

      16lb of fake tits, a "camel toe" insert in the front of his shorts, and a long blond wig in a woodwork and metal shop classroom. What could be more appropriate for a secondary school setting?
      “But it is not a fetish”!

      • Molly 5.1.1

        I don't know for sure. There were rumours that he was attempting to be fired last year, so it may be a fetish – or a grievance preparation strategy. Whichever – if either – is true, the individual is an occurrence.

        The real issue lies with the legislation and interpretation of law that means the Ontario School Board feels unable to address this responsibly.

        Or any other occurrences in the same vein.

    • roy cartland 5.2

      Surely there's a safety issue, with dangerous machinery and such.

    • millsy 5.3

      The Post Millennial is a conservative Christian publication that seeks the imposition of Biblical values via legislation, in other words, it wants homosexuality, transgenderism, abortion, birth control all outlawed, and women to be completely subservient to their husbands and of course, our friend the dead Palestinian carpenter. Quite frankly what business left wing woman like you should have in reading that filth , I have no idea.

      Needs to be remembered that those who oppose transgenderism are lining up with the Christian Taliban.

      [I count at least 7 claims of fact in your first paragraph. You will now provide evidence of the following or you will acknowledge that your comment was unfactual.

      Evidence means a link, AND a quote (links alone are insufficient, I’m not doing your work for your by reading whole articles to parse your evidence). Audio or video must have a time stamp.

      1. conservative Christian publication
      2. seeks the imposition of Biblical values via legislation
      3. wants homosexuality outlaws
      4. likewise transgenderism
      5. and abortion
      6. and birth control
      7. wants women to be subservient to husbands and Jesus

      You have so much form for making shit up like this that you can count this as your only warning. Ban will be double whatever it was last time. – weka]

      [below Millsy acknowledges that they made their first paragraph up – weka]

      • Belladonna 5.3.1

        Do you have some counter evidence that there is another side to this story?

        Because – I (as a parent) would be just as opposed if my kid's woodwork, or English or Maths teachers, for that matter – dressed up in fetish gear at school – regardless of their sexuality or gender orientation.

        Do what you please in your own time. But, at school, there are appropriate standards of dress – and this doesn't meet them.

        You appear to be conflating an opposition to a hyper-sexualised environment being created in the classroom, with opposition to transgenderism.

        • millsy

          From what I read, this was a guy taking the piss out of school board policies around gender identity, not an actual transgender teacher.

          Sorry, but I don't have a source, but this was from a Twitter post by someone close to the school.

      • Molly 5.3.2

        "The Post Millennial is a conservative Christian publication "….

        Yes, posted an article so those that don't know the context can view. Feel free to find and post your own approved source. yes

        For the puritans who know everything without context here is the report written for the school board:


        … and the Ontario Human Rights Commission legislation that informed the report:


        Now that you've done your usual attempts of shaming, and passing judgment as well as telling " left wing woman like you …., …. I have no idea." wink, are you able to offer any contribution about the content of the post, and the situation the Ontario School Board find themselves in?

        (I suspect bringing up the impact on the students and other adults in the school may be a step too far, so we'll leave that for now).

        • Molly

          @ millsy – FWIW, I did try and find the original source for "Halton School Board report 22147" before posting, but had no success, so the article with the Twitter link provided the only copy I had.

          Also, unless an article itself promotes what you say, I usually take it on the same face value I do with any article. Which leads to checking for other source confirmations whether linked or not.

          Here are the other three mentions I could find of the school board response, which I have also not checked for "untoward" thoughts. Perhaps you can grade them regarding acceptable places for left wing women accordingly:




          Re: approved sources, is there not a question about why left-wing sites would not consider this worth reporting on?

            • Molly

              Thanks yes.

              Will read later. Heading out.

              Quick skim, it appears concluding remarks remain relevant:

              Concluding Remarks

              The Board has requested that the Director of Education provide information on the potential implications which may arise from a decision to implement a staff dress code.

              It is clear from the above analysis that the implementation of a formal staff dress code or grooming standards would likely expose the Board to considerable liability. Even if a dress code is implemented for non-discriminatory reasons, it would likely be found to be discriminatory where it adversely affects an employee or group of employees on the basis of their Code-protected grounds.

              Finally, and most importantly, we note that if the employer desires to foster a culture of professionalism, respect, equity and inclusion, a truly reasonable and non-discriminatory dress code or grooming standards would most likely fail to yield the intended results.”

          • millsy

            So called left wing women, especially those who identity as being 'gender critical' are sounding more and more like Phyllis Schafly every day.

            • weka

              you're in premod until I am satisfied with your response to my moderation above.

              • weka

                and if you choose not to respond and instead disappear, I will simply ban you.

              • millsy

                See my reponse above. I retract the above comment as well.

                • weka

                  here’s your problem. It took time to write the mod note, then put in you premod. When I saw your retractions I looked up your moderation history and see moderators have spent a lot of time moderating you. Last time there was discussion in the backend about permanently banning you. Your last ban was something like 9 months. You have a long history of a pattern of behaviour of making inflammatory, misleading and unfactual comments that tie up a lot of time on bullshit debate and people trying to get corrections or evidence. I’m not seeing anything that suggests you will stop doing this, other than the threat of a long ban.

                  Next time I see you doing what you have done today, I will ban you without warning. Expect at least a year.

                  If you do want to change, even just to retain commenting privileges, here’s what I suggest:

                  1. stop making claims of fact unless you have fact checked what you want to say
                  2. pre-emptively supply links *and quotes to support your assertions

                  That’s standard fare at TS and you’ve been here more than long enough to know this. Ball is in your court as to whether you get to keep commenting here.

      • Visubversa 5.3.3

        There are multiple publications reporting this story. Unfortunately the so called "progressive " media is reluctant to do so.

      • weka 5.3.4

        mod note.

      • millsy 5.3.5

        OK, weka. Fair enough. My comment was unfactual. I hereby withdraw my allegations.

      • weka 5.3.6

        Needs to be remembered that those who oppose transgenderism are lining up with the Christian Taliban.

        I'm going to address this in a comment, because you have enough modding going on above to do for now.

        Gender critical people don't inherently 'oppose transgenderism'. Many are left wing and have no trouble with gender non-conforming people. Their politics is focused on gender identity ideology, the queer theory movements, and the impacts of those on women, children, lesbians and gays, and children, as well as society as a whole.

        Some GC are transphobic and so oppose transness it self.

        The statement that GC people are lining up with the Christian Taliban is a piece of propaganda from the GI ideologists. There are issues in the US about GC people allying with the religious right, but it's complex and related to the weird US political scene.

        In the UK, gender critical feminism is a left wing/centre left movement. Many GCFs and other GC people actively distance themselves from the religious right (and from proto-fascism. For obvious reasons.

        Anyone running GC is allied to the religious right is pig ignorant. You running this line here tells me that you are reading only material that affirms your prejudices against GC positions, and it suggests that you don't know what GC positions are.

        • Shanreagh

          I agree Weka. The simple fact is that transness in some of its flavours is the only human right gained at the expense of another set of people who are/have been marginalised.

          So bio women who may have been assaulted ot scared by bio males are now faced with having to share intimate private spaces such as toilets and the like with the self same bio males. They also may have be expected to have to allow themselves to counselled, or not at all by bio males (Canadian case where trans but bio male was employed to counsel rape survivors.) They may have to share a prison, where they face rape from bio men.

          So the right of a bio woman to have safety is potentially threatened. Most of us put personal safety quite high up on the list to be protected as we as women go about our daily lives.

          Most of us, having been on the wrong end of the rights argument in health, education and work experiences would usually be welcoming to another marginalised group.

          Some involved in transness don't bother to seek hormonal or other changes to 'personify' their alleged new gender and act as Lia Thomas has in being a complete bio male, competing in women's events and changing in female changing rooms.

          The point is that transness even accepting the rightness of not discriminating can be inherently threatening

    • I'd suggest that the parents withdraw their kids from the class. If there are no kids to teach, the board would have to 'regretfully' let her go….

      • Molly 5.4.1

        The larger issue is not the individual, it is the fact that the School Board is unable to address this in a sensible way because of fear of being successfully sued:

        "“It is clear from the above analysis that the implementation of a formal staff dress code or grooming standards would likely expose the Board to considerable liability,” said the report in conclusion. “Even if a dress code is implemented for non-discriminatory reasons, it would likely be found to be discriminatory where it adversely affects an employee or group of employers on the basis of their Code-protected rights.”"

        Apparently, the Education Minister has asked for a review, after this incident came to light, but that has not been produced as yet, and appears to be a case of locking the stable door after the horse has bolted:

        "Back in September, Ontario Education Minister Stephen Lecce requested that the Ontario College of Teachers review and “consider strengthening” provisions regarding professional conduct “in the interest of all kids in Ontario.” The results of this review are still pending."

        • AB

          Yep – but why on earth are they trying to address it under the dress code? It is nothing to do with dress. It's an overtly sexualised display that is either intended to, or will in effect, undermine students' ability to learn, and make them feel uncomfortable or distressed. The rules on student welfare and teacher code of ethics could quite non-controversially handle that whoever does it – straight gay, transgender, male, female, both, neither or any imaginable or unimaginable combination of all of them.

          • Molly

            You would hope that would be the case – I believe the fear of litigation and censure holds as strong a grip as definitive legislation would. The untested reach of legislative change can be a strong motivator for institutional avoidance.

            In terms of the impact of such behaviour I did a Twitter thread back in September:

      • Visubversa 5.4.2

        Why should children not get their required education because their teacher appears to have decided that every day is a "bring your paraphilia to work" day?

        • Belladonna

          Oh, I agree that it's not ideal. Just practical.

          IIRC we had a similar situation many, many years ago at uni – with a lecturer. Not sexual issues, just an utterly incompetent teacher. The word went quietly around not to enrol in his papers one year – and he was 'regretfully' retired.

    • weka 5.5

      I decreased the image size because it was hurting my brain 😉

    • Muttonbird 5.6

      I didn't want to go there but the current headlines at The Post Millennial are obsessed with, in no particular order, antifa, transgenders, non-binaries, biological males, gender clinics, MSNBC pundits, Kari Lake, Maricopa County, Hunter Biden, Democrats controlling media, etc. Millsy's assumption that it is a conservative christian outlet is a fair assumption, imo.

      It is definitely a far right transphobic outlet.

      After reading their hate site and this thread @5 I've concluded The Post Millennial is a far more dangerous entity than Kayla Lemieux:

      Andy Ngo has been editor-at-large since 2019. Ngo was previously with Quillette. Several advertisers such as Logitech pulled ads from the site due to its association with Ngo.

      In 2021, The Post Millennial played a key role in creating a viral story in right-wing media where it was falsely claimed that some members of the US women's soccer team had disrespected a 98-year-old World War II veteran when he played the Star-Spangled Banner prior to a game.

      Many of their articles use use aggregated content from other new sources, social media sites, and press releases with "inflammatory headlines" that have been described as rage bait used by "far-right social media".

      Yeah, looks like it picks up a few…


      • Molly 5.6.1

        "After reading their hate site and this thread @5 I've concluded The Post Millennial is a far more dangerous entity than Kayla Lemieux:"

        All good.

        Like millsy, if you can source an approved left-wing site reporting on the situation, post it here.

        Or – perhaps – comment on the situation and discuss.

  6. joe90 6

    A potential 11 gigawatts of generation. France ain't fucking around.

    In France, solar just got a huge boost from new legislation approved through the Senate this week that will require all parking lots with spaces for at least 80 vehicles – both existing and new – to be covered by solar panels.

    The new provisions are part of French president Emmanuel Macron’s large-scale plan to heavily invest in renewables, which aims to multiply by 10 the amount of solar energy produced in the country, and to double the power from land-based wind farms.

    Starting July 1, 2023, smaller carparks that have between 80 and 400 spaces will have five years to be in compliance with the new measures. Carparks with more than 400 spaces have a shorter timeline: They will need to comply with the new measures within three years of this date, and at least half of the surface area of the parking lot will need to be covered in solar panels.


  7. Incognito 7

    Today is an important day and another step for Three Waters Reforms.

    This week, the majority of MPs on a Parliamentary committee will recommend the Three Waters reforms proceed.

    The woman whose impassionate plea won over Three Waters MPs

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/pro/the-impassioned-plea-that-won-over-mps [Subscription required]

    After reading 6,600 submssions, a select committee [the Finance and Expenditure Select Committee] today reports back on pleas to remove parks and sports fields and farmers’ private stormwaters from the Government’s ambitious Three Waters reforms.

    The gathering stormwaters: Pressure to reduce reforms to just Two Waters

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/pro/water-services-entities-bill-stormwaters [Subscription required]

  8. Ad 8

    Kherson's going to resemble Dunkirk pretty quick.

    • joe90 8.1

      An artilleryman's dream – 30k closely massed troops crossing a 1500 metre wide waterway packed in small boats and ferries.

      • Stuart Munro 8.1.1

        I imagine the drivers of those drone watercraft are pretty keen on it too.

        • joe90

          And operating with impunity.

          • Scud

            If Twitter is anything to go by atm?

            Apparently there is No Russian Air Defence Units covering the Bridgeheads & any surviving Air Defence Units are some 50-80kms behind the Russian Forward Edge of the Battlefield ouch!!!

            As a result the Ukrainian Airforce are having a field day in-between the Artillery bombardment when the Ukrainian Drop Shorts move from position to position to avoid the Russian counter battery Fire.

            My gut feeling is Tsar Poot's has couple of Aces up his sleeve & I wouldn't be surprised if the Russians now that dam up river or pops a dirty bomb?

            Or either that the entire Russian Army has totally collapse in the Sth and it's Run Rabbit Run as the Ukrainian Drop Shorts go boom boom?

            To undertake a Withdrawal under fire is the hardest Military manoeuvre to do even with a highly motivated & disciplined force & it could very well turn into a rout that could very well take a life of it own.

            Which would be the last thing that Tsar Poot's needs atm. Especially the Ukrainian's Logistics hold up & the Ukrainian's gain a couple Bridgeheads?

            May we live interesting times?

            Or as great Kiwi, Sir Keith Park ACO Group 11, reportable said when the Luftwaffe were late to arrive the follow morning after the 15th September raids 1940 "bastards are up to something!"

    • Sanctuary 8.2

      Reports are of Ukrainian advanced elements in Kherson already and Russian troop concentrations under heavy fire on the banks of the Dniepr. I saw a Russian telegram channel that talked of panic.

      Strategically, the Ukrainians will now once again control the water supply to Crimea. The key Russian supply hub at Chaplynka is going to be in easy range of HIMARS, a weapon the Russians currently have no anwer for. The right bank of the Dniepr consists of high bluffs overlooking the left bank for some distance, so the Ukrainians will basically be able to observe and decimate any Russian units trying to form up there.

      This is a big victory for the Ukraine. Psychologically it is a huge blow to the Russians – the scale of the Russian defeat will tell us something of the realtive state of each side in the Kherson attrition battles. If the Ukrainians don't capture much equipment or many prisoners and seem happy to simply observe and follow up the Russian retreat and let their artillery smash the evacuation points then IMHO that points to troop exhaustion and the rumoured high losses in the September offensive battles may be correct. Conversely, if the Russians manage to pull off a competent withdrawl that will speak to improving planning capability on their side.

      A big Russian defeat potentially unhinges the entire Russian position from Kherson to Melitopol/Mariupol. The Ukrainians have incrementally made gains in the centre and are almost in HIMARS range of the M14 route and Mariupol, whilst their special forces (called “Partisans” by the Ukrainians) are interdicting Russian supplies coming along the M14 road – this is the only available supply route left to the Russians since the Ukrainians took out the the Crimea bridge rail and road link, so I would expect the next big Ukrainian effort will be to cut off the supply routes Russian troops west of Mariupol (in winter, that means no food or heating) and cause a complete Russian withdrawl into Crimea and evacuation of Mariupol before the end of winter.

      Things are looking bad for Putin, I am not sure how many more big defeats he can survive by simply blaming the army. A dictator can only piss off the most heavily armed organisation in his country for so long.

      • joe90 8.2.1

        Twitter saying the UAF has gone for annihilation, >500 artillery/rocket strikes/min on four ferry crossings.

      • Jenny are we there yet 8.2.2

        Ukrainian forces are reported to be advancing "warily" being careful of not walking into a death trap.

        With all Putin's talk of escalating the war, and fighting to the last Ukrainian, this retreat is out of character.

        My guess; Russian withdrawal from Kherson is a tactical retreat only. It is plausible that Russia is preparing to turn Kherson into a free fire zone to wipe out as many Ukrainians as possible, both military and civilian, with a scorched earth policy using some sort of genocidal weapon of mass destruction, either a dirty bomb, or by blowing the Kakhovka Dam. Blaming the Ukrainians of killing their own to gain sympathy from the West. A lie which will be amplified by pro-Russian trolls, and repeated by useful idiots, around the globe.


  9. Incognito 9

    In the face of mounting [financial] challenges, the Board of Eke Panuku has unanimously agreed to take a 10% pay cut, effective today – to be reviewed at the end of the current financial year (30 June 2023). In the current environment we think that is tika. As professional directors, we are not looking for any of you to follow suit.The well-being of the Eke Panuku staff and families is of the utmost importance to the Board.


    It doesn’t sound like much but with the rapidly rising CoL a 10% pay-cut is bigger than it seems.

    • Ad 9.1

      This is flagellating before Caesar; Nos morituri te salutavit …

      Brown is going to use his majority on Council to eradicate Panuku entirely. His committee structure integrates Finance with full Council, so he's going to smash it through himelf.

      And there goes about 200 salaries over $130k that Auckland won't miss in the middle of a sharp collapse in development.

      • Incognito 9.1.1

        Nope, Nero is just a fiddler; this is the start of a PR war.

        • Ad

          Seems an entirely one sided war since only the Mayor has the weapons.

          His line-by-line committee will have on its list stuff we haven't seen since Shipley's gang hit Bruce Jesson at the ARC:

          – Sell the port operation

          – Sell the airport shares

          – Sell off Panuku as a going concern, wipe the board

          – Bring AT fully in house, wipe the board

          – Disband the economic part of Auckland Unlimited and bring the Zoo and Museum in house, wipe the board

          – Has no choice but to let Watercare go when the legislation goes through

          – Wipe out all the community support functions in council

          He could even keep the IMSB happy by offloading more parks management to them.

          All of this and more will be on the table soon for his first budget proposal.

  10. Macro 10

    Oh Dear! Trumpty Dumpty (Who couldn't even build a wall) has had a great fall.

    Can all the GOP put him back together again?

    • Ad 10.1

      Not sure quite what they are complaining about.

      Republicans have won Congress and within a hair's breadth of controlling the Senate.

      They already control the Supreme Court for many terms to come. They have electoral war chests galore.

      It's now a contest between Democrats having support destroyed fast by inflation, or Republicans having support destroyed by DoJ Trump indictments.

      Not unreasonable that Trump Republicans would come out better than Biden Democrats.

      • Macro 10.1.1

        The mid-terms was never the "red wave" that the GOP were Trumpeting was going to happen. Sure they may now have a few more seats in the House, than the Dems (Just how many is still to be determined) but Kevin McCarthy is going to have his work cut out trying to control the alt-right wing nuts MTG et al. He's going to be the meat in a very unsavory sandwich.

        As for the senate that is still to be decided, and probably not until the run-off in Georgia in early Dec. either way – hard say a great landslide victory.

        Many GOP now blaming the "influence" of Trump on the result. And to some extent he is to blame with his massive stacking of the Judiciary with right wing christian conservatives. While Trump still receives 44% support within the party, he is far from being a popular figure nation wide. He would be unlikely to win a race for POTUS again. Even Faux News seem to have washed their hands of him.

        Murdoch had his doubts about Trump before the businessman and reality TV star ran for president in 2016. Even when Trump won, Murdoch was unconvinced, reportedly privately calling him a “fucking idiot” following one conversation about immigration.

        Some Murdoch outlets, including Fox News, notably backed away from Trump over the summer, giving him less airtime. In her book Confidence Man: The Making of Donald Trump and the Breaking of America, Maggie Haberman, a reporter for the New York Times, said Murdoch had been keen to wash his hands of Trump after the 2020 election.

  11. Poission 11

    Well known altruists promote the new future at Bahamas conference.

    In the vein of his famous philanthropic streak – “effective altruism” – he wanted to spend his money to help “people who will make sure to follow through on common sense things to try to not have what happened to us over the last few years happen again,”

    Yep if you have just lost 32b of investors money (and counting due to levered assets) it would be remarkable if any reinvested what they did not own anymore, a Bear Sterns moment some might say.


  12. joe90 12

    He flapped his gums and threatened to buy Twitter, got bored and moved on. But the board didn't and they wanted their money. Two weeks in and he's talking bankruptcy?

    Way to piss $44 billion away, Elon.

  13. observer 13

    Curia poll (not lefty spin) backs up Newshub's in one regard: both show Luxon losing support. But this one is in line with all the others, suggesting Newshub's is the outlier.

    A tweet, poll not yet in the media

    • Alan 13.1

      Both show a change of government -so what is your point

      • observer 13.1.1

        OK, you need it explaining.

        LOTO polling: Ardern's went up. Key's went up. Clark's went up (99 not 96, when she lost).

        No LOTO has won under MMP with low (in fact, declining) personal support.

        If you think it's OK for National to risk defeat by carrying a major handicap, that's great. For Labour and the Greens, even Winston.

        • mosa

          " OK, you need it explaining ”

          Do you know how arrogant you are Observer ?

          No of course not !

          Someone so obnoxious and obviously pretentious as you would never been tolerated in the real Labour party.

          But you fit right in on here.

          • observer

            I'm not a member of the Labour party, and never have been.

            I don't know why anyone would base their views of a party (or even their vote) on political blog comments. Spend 5 minutes on Kiwiblog and joining the communists starts to look attractive. Spend 5 minutes on the Daily Blog and swing back to the right.

            Or you could weigh up the policies of the parties and their leaders and decide what kind of government you'd like. Most voters do that without ever reading any blogs, which is probably just as well.

            As for the comment you responded to, you could address the points made, agree or disagree … but you don't seem interested in debate here, so it's not clear what you want.

        • Drowsy M. Kram

          Hence all the talk of Ardern upping sticks – expect much more of this desperate stuff.


          If NAct win in 2023, Luxon will become the least politically experienced NZ PM ever, with only half the prior experience of Key – couldn't come at a better time, could it.

    • observer 13.2

      Here's the NZME link:


      Note that Luxon is in negative territory. That is remarkable: parties and leaders usually go up/down together. When the gov't is at a low ebb, the leader of the opposition is becoming more unpopular.

      Nicola for National 2023, put your house shirt on it.

    • ianmac 13.3

      Seems surprising that Newhub's poll came out on the evening of Labour Conference. Very surprising.

      Taxpayer's Poll today not too grim for Labour Greens:


    • swordfish 13.4


      But this one is in line with all the others, suggesting Newshub's is the outlier.

      No, don’t think so.

      Newshub’s no more an outlier than Talbot-Millsbroader point: polls all in relative agreement.

      …………………………………… Right Bloc …. Left Bloc …. Right advantage

      Curia (3-8 Nov)…………………. 48 …………….. 43 ………………. 5

      Newshub (25 Oct-3 Nov) ….. 51 ……………. 42 ………………. 9

      Curia (2-11 Oct)…………………. 49 ……………. 42 ………………. 7

      Talbot-Mills (Oct) ……………… 46 ……………. 44 ……………….. 2

      Roy Morgan (Sep) …………….. 49 ……………. 42 ……………….. 7

    • Belladonna 13.5

      Do you mean Horizon, rather than Newshub – being the outlier?

      The most recent Newshub poll seems to be pretty much in line with the Curia one.


  14. Visubversa 14

    These folks get the message.

    Offering male, female and non-binary as categories of competition conflates sex (immutable and consisting of two, male and female) with gender identity (fluid and difficult to define). The two are not the same. A non-binary category also introduces something which is totally irrelevant in sport — belief — as a sports category. Other beliefs, such as religion or political affiliation, are as irrelevant in sport as the belief that one is non-binary. Elite sporting events do not offer separate prize money based on religion or political affiliation because we recognize those divisions are not meaningful for elite competition. The same should be true of gender identity.

    A non-binary category discriminates against females because males run, on average, about 10% faster than females (the women’s world record is 2:14:04; thousands of men have run faster). So females in the non-binary category are not competing on a level playing field."


    • weka 14.1

      good on them. I think society needs to draw a line between acceptance of difference and those that wish to 'smash the binary' (as in do away with physical reality), either because of mental distress/dysphoria, or ideology, or both. Compassion, yes. Making fundamental changes to society that affect everyone because of mental distress or undebated politics? No.

      I'm also increasingly of the opinion that if women want to escape being female via NB identity, then they can opt out of the social goods that go with being female as well. And if they want to run in races against men, have at it. Set up their own sports organisations, see how they get on.

      • Nic the NZer 14.1.1

        Most sporting codes have some allowance for women to compete in the male categories already.

        I know of one women who was playing in the higher (not quite the top) Wellington Soccer grades for Upper Hutt in goal. I think she was also a Football Fern, though I don't have a specific name. It's pretty rare but can be done where the players can compete at the required level.

        A non-binary event sounds like it would be more about a social group than a sporting event. There are also quite a few mixed leagues and competitions around if players are not too serious (and don't mind mentioning that they pass as female for the purposes of the leagues gender balance rules).

        • weka

          (and don't mind mentioning that they pass as female for the purposes of the leagues gender balance rules).

          that's the problem right there though, some NB people refuse to acknowledge their biological sex. It's the insistence on changing things so that others have to pretend there is no femaleness in the person. If someone IDs as NB and acknowledges their femaleness where it matters, all good. Play in women's teams, or men's where that is allowed, or NB teams. But if they deny they are female, then stay out of women's teams and don't expect everyone else to deny as well.

          I once had an argument with a NB male online, who objected to the term 'NB male' and who thought he should have access to women's spaces. He wasn't transitioning, he just like dressing up in quite beautiful, creatively expressive clothes and makeup, interesting. Obviously male, nothing to do with women (as compared to say transsexual women). It's just weird that NB want access to opposite sex spaces, although I can see for males it's probably a safety thing re toilets.

          • Nic the NZer

            In mixed team games the binary is broken down a little differently. The two categories are, allowed on the field and, not allowed on the field without the other team alleging your cheating and complaining to the referee.

            The main take away is there is no real case of sports bodies preventing participation of gender categories. Basically everybody can always play in the male events at minimum.

            • weka

              Sorry, but that makes little grammatical sense.

              The two categories are, allowed on the field and, not allowed on the field without the other team alleging your cheating and complaining to the referee.

              What were you trying to say here? In mixed teams, males and females are allowed on the field, and not allowed on the field? What?

              The main take away is there is no real case of sports bodies preventing participation of gender categories. Basically everybody can always play in the male events at minimum.

              No-one is trying to stop people with a gender identity playing sports. What is being objected to is males playing in women's sports. Because it's obviously, grossly unfair. Also being objected to is the idea that sports can ignore biology (for the most part it can't, and again, obviously, in the sport were it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter).

              Mixed teams and NB teams are not the same thing. Plenty of sport isn't played in teams.

              • Nic the NZer

                In mixed grades the rules will be some version of minimum of two female players on the field (or you can go a player down). But since its basically social grades the enforcement of that is whatever the other team objects to. Whatever genders a team believes are participating is not really relevant.

                I was playing some Masters the other night where the rule is up to two underage players at once. Although the opposition were clearly within that rule, my teams been bitching all week, because our opponents fielded a player from the top Wellington grade and he scored all their goals single handedly.

                I've never noticed a non-binary identified person playing sports anyway and some how doubt enough could be grouped to form a team, let alone a competition.

                The main point about sports participation is, the claim that sex categories in sports are excluding people from participation, by their gender beliefs. That claim is obvious fiction. As far as I've seen there is some kind of competitive pressuring, alleging and demanding of sporting bodies to change their rules but miniscule interest in actual participation by supposedly represented communities.

  15. Ad 15

    Keep pressing on Minister Mahuta. All power to you. Make the farmers quake.

    Three Waters co-governance retained after 88,000 public submissions – NZ Herald

    • observer 15.1

      A useful (and very informative) test that anyone can try:

      When somebody says they "oppose 3 waters", ask them to name … the 3 waters. Yes, as easy as that.

      Answers will often include "co-governance", "Mahuta", "Cindy", etc.

      But actually knowing what the policy is … not so much.

      • Alan 15.1.1

        Another very useful test that anyone can try;

        "Do you believe in democracy, one person, one vote?"

        • swordfish


          The exclusive little Establishment club that is Wokedom certainly doesn't.

          I mean, why would you allow the hoi polloi, the great unwashed, the 80% of the public who are absolute deplorables to have a say in our future ??? That's sounds absolutely ghastly !!!

          Certainly the remarkably rarefied guests at various upmarket Kelburn & Wadestown dinner parties are aghast at the very thought.

          No, sod the proles … everything's best left to a cadre of affluent, ruthlessly self-interested narcissistic slobs inhabiting the upper echelons of the professional-managerial class … who, it seems, possess moral sensibilities so much more unusually refined than the rest of us.

        • Incognito

          If that sums up your understanding of the concept of democracy then you and I are likely to talk past each other.

        • Nic the NZer

          If that's your rule I think you must surely stick to it.

          Will you be voting electorate candidate or political party in the next general election?

          • Incognito

            Nah, Alan strikes me as someone would give his 2 votes to a fringe party that won’t make the 5% threshold, so in essence his 2 = 0, which is hugely unfair, of course, but that’s democracy for you.

            • Nic the NZer

              Its a risky strategy, I tend to bet on the favourites myself but the payout is often low.

              I did get an anonymous tip that, the best margin is in the trifecta, so I recommend picking all your top 3 in order at the general election.

        • observer

          I agree that we should change the current absurdity where one person can have more than one vote in local elections, because they own more than one property.

          Unfortunately National and ACT MPs are not keen to change this. Perhaps you could contact them to let them know how strongly you feel about "one person, one vote", or even get a petition going. Good luck.

        • roblogic

          “One person one vote” is really cool if you’re in the Pakeha majority, voting to confiscate Maori land, perfectly legally, under the Public Works Act

          “Let’s all be one culture” is a great way to wipe out Te Reo and Māori culture and deny 800,000 people a voice in their own land

          ”Let’s have one health system” is fine until you actually look at the data re Māori health outcomes, longevity, lifestyle, and lack of engagement with Pakeha institutions

          One would almost think this One Nation rhetoric was white supremacist bullshit designed to suppress a minority culture struggling for its own identity

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