Open mike 11/12/2023

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 11th, 2023 - 42 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

42 comments on “Open mike 11/12/2023 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. observer 1
    11 December 2023 at 7:51 am

    A really detailed, in-depth article about Winston's post-2020 new fans turning on him now he's pocketed their votes (as if they had learned nothing over 30+ years).

    It would be easy to mock or ignore if their hero was Brian Tamaki or Leighton Baker.

    But he's not. It's everyone's problem now.

    Winston Peters’ rabbit hole problem | The Spinoff

    • Robert Guyton 1.1
      11 December 2023 at 9:03 am

      Winston found them easy to fool the first time around – why wouldn't he find it easy to string them along now?

      It's not as though they are immune to being bullish*tted.

    • Incognito 1.2
      11 December 2023 at 9:05 am

      Both Tamaki and Peters have the charisma of cult leaders.

      • Robert Guyton 1.2.1
        11 December 2023 at 9:18 am

        Both fleecing their flock.

      • Mike the Lefty 1.2.2
        11 December 2023 at 7:32 pm

        I don't think Peters actually believes half of the rubbish that he spews out, he just played the part because he sensed there were enough votes for him from the conspiracy theorists who wanted electoral change but doubted Tamaki could get enough votes, so they went for Peters instead.

        Now that he has got where he wanted to get he can afford to ignore them and do what he wants, whatever that is.

    • ianmac 1.3
      11 December 2023 at 9:56 am

      Surely the highly skilled negotiator Luxon would have seen the fragility of the NZF position, or was it worth the risk so that he could become Sir Christopher Luxon?

      However what if NZF support from fans does turn to custard? Winston is installed in the House. He is DP. And will be there until 2026. He won. "Eat that!" he might say.

      • Anne 1.3.1
        11 December 2023 at 8:02 pm

        And he knows it is his last term in office and he plans to go out all guns blazing. I almost – repeat almost – feel a bit sorry for Luxon. 😛

    • SPC 1.4
      11 December 2023 at 10:56 am

      They've kicked it to touch – part of the inquiry.

      He can presume overseas MSM will be silent on the issue and it will not be a problem while FM.

      If necessary, he'll point out this how politics operates, advocacy of a cause and a process, an inquiry.

    • UncookedSelachimorpha 1.5
      11 December 2023 at 11:37 am

      Good article – I wasn't aware just how much effort NZ1st put into chasing the freedumb vote – long interviews with Liz Gunn etc.

      The dog has caught the car!

      • Robert Guyton 1.5.1
        11 December 2023 at 11:57 am

        Gunn, or rather her "right-hand-man", John Ansell (of Kiwi/Iwi billboard notoriety, Hobson's Choice etc.) stuffed NZ Loyal's chances before they were even out of the gates (2 million Loyalists with no one to vote for – catastrophe!) and so fell prey/sold out to Winston, who promised the earth. Now they want their pound of flesh.

        • Rolling-on-Gravel 1.5.1.1
          11 December 2023 at 12:13 pm

          I won't be surprised if by the time all of this is said and done, there may be a marked increase of buyer's remorse than the usual amount.

          Winston's a showy sort of con-man at his heart.

          • Anne 1.5.1.1.1
            11 December 2023 at 8:12 pm

            “Winston’s a showy sort of con-man at his heart”

            … and as cunning as a fox. History will remember him as probably NZ's most colourful politician and I cannot help but see him one day on his fluffy white cloud grinning like the Cheshire cat.

  2. joe90 2
    11 December 2023 at 8:12 am

    Did Retail NZ use incorrect data, too?

    NEW YORK, Dec 5 (Reuters) – The main lobbying group for U.S. retailers retracted its claim that "organized retail crime" accounted for nearly half of all inventory losses in 2021 after finding that incorrect data was used for its analysis.

    https://archive.li/o1QVJ (reuters)

    • ianmac 2.1
      11 December 2023 at 10:07 am

      It did seem to me that NZ Business claimed that "Retail Crime" was a serious blow to NZ Law and Order. Suited the Opposition to add it to the mix of anti-Labour soft on crime rhetoric. What data did NZ use?

      • Graeme 2.1.1
        11 December 2023 at 11:54 am

        Retail NZ have been sending out Retail Crime surveys the members for a while, so the local data will be from these. Because it’s self reported objectivity could be lacking but it still reflects the ‘mood’ of retailers.
        The ‘target’ of this is as much the insurance industry as any Government, shop lifting during trading hours is un-insurable, so a direct cost to the retailer and really hurts.
        What’s not reflected in the survey is the collapse in respect for retailers and staff through and post covid.

    • weka 3.1
      11 December 2023 at 10:57 am

      by some estimates around 200,000 in NZ ,were not deemed to be a concern for the Ardern Govt.

      by some estimates around 200,000 in NZ ,were not deemed to be a concern for the successive neoliberal governments.

      fify.

      You're article is dated 1/3/20. I wonder if the Labour government had other things on its mind.

      Besides, they're not all ghost houses. From your link,

      A total of 196,506 homes were left unoccupied across the country at the 2018 census, according to Stats NZ. The figure includes homes with no current occupants, unoccupied properties being renovated, baches, and holiday homes. Empty new-builds and homes that aren't up to government rental standards will also make up some of the total.

      Go to a South Island holiday town and the unoccupied rate will approach 25%. Because NZ citizens have holiday houses.

      • Blazer 3.1.1
        11 December 2023 at 11:28 am

        No kidding!See many permanently empty houses driving around Auckland.Even if allowing for the empty houses that have a valid reason for being so,there were say 25% that were left empty on purpose,it would still equate to 50,000 houses that could be homes for people to live in.

        Labour may well have been 'busy' in 2020.Its common knowledge that there are widespread social consequences of people not being able to access accomodation.

        People living in cars,motels on the streets comes at a huge cost.

        If you desire to reduce poverty and inequality housing people should be a…priority.

        • weka 3.1.1.1
          11 December 2023 at 12:15 pm

          I'm curious who you voted for this year. If you see this as a Labour failing rather than a neoliberal failing.

          • Blazer 3.1.1.1.1
            11 December 2023 at 1:11 pm

            This is what Ardern had to say…'“We are a government of change and this plan shows our new thinking on how we’ll tackle the big challenges facing our country and the world such as poverty and inequality and climate change'

            How would you rate them on those aspirations?

            Priorities for a modern and fairer NZ | Beehive.govt.nz

            • gsays 3.1.1.1.1.1
              11 December 2023 at 1:56 pm

              While he is part of the problem with his 6 or 7 properties, landlord Luxon is correct to highlight Labour running migration at record highs.

              Contributing to housing unaffordability, inflation and pressures on a under resources health system.

            • weka 3.1.1.1.1.2
              11 December 2023 at 8:40 pm

              I don't give a flying fuck about aspirations. I care about policy and how it is implemented and how it affects the country.

              Tell me what Labour did.

              And again, why focus on Ardern, as if everyone government since the mid 80s hasn't had us on this track.

      • Visubversa 3.1.2
        11 December 2023 at 12:06 pm

        My house was "unoccupied" on census night 2018. That is because my partner and I were on holiday in the South Island – we completed the Census in a Motel in Christchurch.

        There certainly are "ghost houses" around – I can across a few of them while working at Auckland Council. One of them – in a very flash area – had been left by a family who had gone back to China for a family funeral and not returned. It was a big house, on a big rear site. The power was still on. After about 6 months the neighbours complained about the lawns which were becoming a fire and vermin hazard and Council eventually got an order to get them mowed by a contractor and billed it with the Rates. The owners continued to pay everything. This went on for some years.

        • weka 3.1.2.1
          11 December 2023 at 12:19 pm

          yes, there are ghost houses, people sitting on the capital gains train, and land banking.

          What I objected to about Blazer's comment was the lack of nuance in understanding the different between houses that are empty because people are making money off them that way vs all the other reasons for empty houses. And that he blamed Ardern instead of seeing it as part of a long standing problem over successive governments.

          Once there is the political will, why not register houses:

          • occupied dwelling/owned
          • occupied dwelling/rented
          • holiday house
          • holidy house also used as nightly or seasonal rental
          • houses in process (renovation, just been built etc)
          • houses sitting empty for no good reason

          it wouldn't be a perfect system, but the main obstacle is how much of the electorate either favours untaxed capital gains and/or hates government intervention in the market on principle.

          • Barfly 3.1.2.1.1
            11 December 2023 at 1:51 pm

            Well what pisses me off is that no one in government has had or will ever have the balls to investigate how big the problem is.

            • weka 3.1.2.1.1.1
              11 December 2023 at 2:17 pm

              yep. Not the two big parties at least. My guess is TPM and the Greens would be all over it if they could.

            • roblogic 3.1.2.1.1.2
              11 December 2023 at 6:03 pm

              I bought my last car off a young migrant who was the sole occupant of a large 4 bedroom house in Pakuranga – paid for by his overseas based family – the car later turned out to be a lemon

              Forgive my lack of empathy for wealthy foreigners who only come here to take take take and make inequality worse in the land my ancestors built.

  4. ianmac 4
    11 December 2023 at 10:00 am

    Nick Rockel has yet another in depth read on the risks/problems from the loss of Three Waters.

    So local councils, who screamed their opposition to Three Waters, saying “don’t take away water, you’ll dilute my powers”, will now be told, “fine, it’s all yours. You sort it out, and good luck telling your ratepayers”.

    So how will Luxon the clever negotiator handle the Councils' money problems?

    https://open.substack.com/pub/nickrockel/p/not-to-cast-stones?r=25honw&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

    • Barfly 4.1
      11 December 2023 at 10:42 am

      "So how will Luxon the clever negotiator handle the Councils' money problems?"

      Tosh it's so simple – ta da privatisation and you thought councils would make eye watering increases just wait till it's privatised you'll all need an extra job to pay for water after that one angry

    • Patricia Bremner 4.2
      11 December 2023 at 11:32 am

      Thanks ianmac. Nick Rockel is a great read. Clarity and truly informative.

  5. Stephen D 5
    11 December 2023 at 12:03 pm

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/504414/workplace-relations-minister-brooke-van-velden-less-certain-of-good-relationship-with-unions

    ”FIRST Union general secretary Dennis Maga believed the repeal would drive wages down, and increase unemployment and underemployment.

    "Putting an extreme libertarian ACT minister in charge of Workplace Relations and Safety is like putting a vampire in charge of the country's emergency blood supply," he said in a media release.”

    Too soon to talk about a General Strike?

  6. Stephen D 6
    11 December 2023 at 12:37 pm

    An interesting read regarding International Large Scale Assessments such as Pisa.

    https://www.thepress.co.nz/a/nz-news/350127894/all-gets-lost-our-conversation-around-pisa-results?utm_source=stuff_website&utm_medium=stuff_referral&utm_campaign=mh_stuff&utm_id=mh_stuff

    ”With National focused on curriculum reform we can expect “basics” to be lifted from places like top-ranked Singapore, but not policies like their massive investment in quality teaching through high teacher salaries. High pay and high status for teachers are unifying features of top-ranked Pisa countries.”

    Pretty sure NAF aren’t planning on paying teachers a whole lot more.

    • ianmac 6.1
      11 December 2023 at 1:04 pm

      Yes Stephen. Funny that though NZ Reading scores started trending down from 2009 around the beginning of National Standards, this bogus Education Minister is going to reintroduce them. Worth a read your link.
      Funny how the great innovations came from organic developments from within the teaching system in the past but now we have politicians with pet feeds from the right wing National Initiative. Hmmmf!

      https://www.thepress.co.nz/a/nz-news/350127894/all-gets-lost-our-conversation-around-pisa-results?utm_source=stuff_website&utm_medium=stuff_referral&utm_campaign=mh_stuff&utm_id=mh_stuff

    • SPC 6.2
      11 December 2023 at 4:51 pm

      It's not about results – that requires investment in pay and smaller class size.

      Each time, a claim they are the way to better results with no more money spent. It is once again an elaborate con to exploit parental fear.

      It's already known that teaching to a standards test does not improve educational achievement, so we have something new …

      2023. A focus on competence for future learning (reading, writing and arithmetic) … except it means less time for science and IT/coding … as well as all that "social studies" well being stuff.

      Groups like NZ Initiative exist as part of a conspiracy to create supportive expertise (the problem is teacher unions and state schools).

      Those in the business of Charter and Partnership schools assist in selling the narrative.

  7. Rolling-on-Gravel 7
    11 December 2023 at 5:50 pm

    Taking an holiday from this website – see you around…

    • Robert Guyton 7.1
      11 December 2023 at 6:18 pm

      Oh no!

      Why, Rolling?

      • Rolling-on-Gravel 7.1.1
        11 December 2023 at 7:34 pm

        I realised that I needed to focus more on my activism and the next few months will be rather critical for the topics I hold dear and near to.

        Being here on the Standard will have to take a back seat to that for a while.

        See you all when I'm back and with some stuff to talk about (unless there's a particularly & extremely catastrophic thing that we cannot ignore that NACTNZF are committing upon us all, especially to my groups and that would be an instance where I would be back early) otherwise it'll likely be radio silence, so to speak.

        • Robert Guyton 7.1.1.1
          11 December 2023 at 7:43 pm

          The new year will be a lively one. Looking forward to thoughts from refreshed commenters here, especially those who have engaged in grassroots action over the summer break 🙂