Open Mike 11/03/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, March 11th, 2017 - 151 comments
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151 comments on “Open Mike 11/03/2017 ”

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  1. John up North 1
    11 March 2017 at 6:18 am

    We need immigrants to work here cause Kiwi’s are either too stoned, lazy or sitting on the other side of the road begging while immigrant workers rebuild Christchurch (total misquote but the essence of Hides Bull feces NBR).

    I call Bull shit cause once again we have yet another immigrant being exploited by a Kiwi company that won’t employ Kiwi’s – not because of pot, not because of lack of work ethic but cause $$$$.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/326339/food-company-fined-a-further-$11k-over-immigrant's-wages

    Judge Inglis said this sort of case was all too common in New Zealand.

    “The position Mr Domingo has found himself in is not unique.

    “It is clear that it has taken a degree of personal endurance to pursue matters to this point.

    “Mr Domingo said that he had felt like ‘giving up’ in terms of seeking compliance with the authority’s awards. These are observations which the Employment Court frequently hears in cases such as this.”

    Our journey to the bottom continues

    • Keepcalmcarryon 1.1
      11 March 2017 at 12:15 pm

      Bill will be here shortly to label you and RNZ xenophobic in due course.

      How on earth is anyone allowed to justify importing low skilled labour here, permanent or temporary? Allow the wages to rise to a level that is sustainable for kiwis , expensive kiwi cost of living but international third world wages being payed.

      [Mischaracterisation riding the back of smear…or is that the other way around? No matter – it’s really, really stupid to attack the site’s authors. One week ban.] – Bill

  2. Muttonbird 2
    11 March 2017 at 6:24 am

    What a dreadful place this government has lead us to when it comes to housing. New Zealand now has the most unaffordable housing across a range of measures. New Zealand, once admired for the housing of its citizens, has a government which has watched over a division in society on housing which may never be repaired.

    Across five different measures, New Zealand has come out on top of three of the five measures for the most expensive global housing market.

    New Zealand has had the highest rise in house prices, costs the most against the average person’s income and now has the biggest difference between house prices and renting prices.

    The Economist puts this trend down to “a growing horde of rich foreigners” coming to New Zealand because they see it as a “safe haven”.

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2017/03/new-zealand-housing-most-unaffordable-in-the-world-the-economist.html

    • RedBaronCV 2.1
      11 March 2017 at 7:28 am

      High time ownership ( or an equitable interest) in a property in NZ gave you compulsory tax residence-(offshore group) in NZ and you are taxed on your worldwide tax income & assets against which you may offset any taxes paid as a tax resident – (onshore group).
      That should tax care of the super problem & a few others too.

    • Draco T Bastard 2.2
      11 March 2017 at 8:01 am

      What a dreadful place this government has lead us to when it comes to housing.

      This government like it that way because it means a few rich people can become even bigger bludgers. If we had equality then people may actually become independent of rich people and then the rich wouldn’t be able to bludge off of everyone else.

      • RedBaronCV 2.2.1
        11 March 2017 at 8:17 am

        Good thought’s – I think we should all do some serious bludging off the rich to get to the equality model.

  3. RedBaronCV 3
    11 March 2017 at 7:57 am

    I’ve just been over to Frank Macskasy’s page to read his immigration article.

    Now I know that John key didn’t take responsibility for anything but there is a picture montage there of newspaper headlines and it’s like “wow” I found the visual impact pretty strong.
    Don’t know who owns it or who did it but felt it would make an excellent poster etc and deserves widespread distribution. One picture a thousand words.

    and BTW not sure if it can be fixed -but when I click on the usual spot on the feed I normally get Frank’s picture not the article. I’m sure Frank’s good lookin’ but?

  4. WILD KATIPO 4
    11 March 2017 at 8:17 am

    Tenants pay $200-plus to share ‘slum’ with rats – Business – NZ Herald …
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11815660

    For sale: the $5m slum Steve Braunias wanders through the grim …
    m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11815645

    18 months ago I approached the head tenant of where I pay $250.00 per week for a run down shithole that has a lose tap, poor drainage /guttering issues , and a shower that does not drain properly.

    It also has faulty wiring that has pooled at some stage and shorted( blown ) the ceiling light socket.

    Several other wall sockets are faulty.

    As a result of this weather bomb we are having – I found water pouring in from the wall in the bathroom/toilet area at about half way up the wall.

    This pooled into the open plan area where the carpet now is .

    I would estimate 1-2 cm’s or more in depth.

    The place is a potential electrical deathtrap with water back- pooling in the walls.

    I also note as a past painter and decorator the dilapidated paint job and the amateur attempts to fill all the punch holes in the walls and doors.

    Two weeks ago I suffered my first heart attack and received a stent in a heart artery. I am still breathless and sometimes exhausted as a result. And I am furious.

    It is obvious that the landlord has bought this property as a part of a cheap investment portfolio and intends to pay as little as possible ( nothing ) toward either its livability or its maintenance. It obviously has had NO money spent on bringing it up to standard . It would be around early 1980’s vintage.

    Reading the above article in the NZ Herald today has made me feel almost vigilante towards this National govt that has enabled this type of criminal element to get away with this sort of blatant racketeering.

    I will approach the head tenant and if he doesn’t grow some balls ASAP I will go to the Tenancy Tribunal on Monday , and force the issue. Another recourse is social media.

    A message to both Bill English and Andrew Little.

    To Bill English, – I AM NOT SOME ANIMAL OR DOG TO BE TREATED LIKE SHIT.

    To Andrew Little. I believe you and Jacinda Adern have it in your power to do something about this sort of state of affairs that has been legitimized by this National govt up and down this country to so many of their fellow countrymen and women.

    Stop standing at the gateway umming and ahhing. Get bold and do something.

    You have EVERY moral right to do so.

    Do that ?… and the people will carry you through the next election and on into govt for the years to come . And you will have the peoples MANDATE to rectify this viscous govts avarice and self serving agenda.

    Do nothing?

    Then you amply deserve the wrath and the cursing of the voters for your timid inaction.

    • Draco T Bastard 4.1
      11 March 2017 at 8:53 am

      The place is a potential electrical deathtrap with water back- pooling in the walls.

      No, from what you’re saying, it is a death trap – and that’s without the water. The water increases the probability of death.

      Reading the above article in the NZ Herald today has made me feel almost vigilante towards this National govt that has enabled this type of criminal element to get away with this sort of blatant racketeering.

      This type of stuff has been building up for some time. Decades in fact as the rentiers have realised that being immoral arseholes that endanger peoples lives has no consequences.

      The problem with National is that they’ll keep it that way.

      • patricia 4.1.1
        11 March 2017 at 10:59 am

        The article neglected to mention the army of cockroaches that scuttle round the floors and up the walls at night. Refrigerators (privately owned and kept in tenants’ rooms to keep food safe) are soon invaded by the cockroaches. The place is a hell hole but is better than nothing. A few fortunate tenants have managed to escape and move into HNZ flats. Auckland needs far more flats for single people on low incomes but HNZ do not seem interested in this group.

    • The Chairman 4.2
      11 March 2017 at 12:48 pm

      @ WILD KATIPO

      Here’s a thought, if the place is such a dive, why not move out?

      • weka 4.2.1
        11 March 2017 at 1:15 pm

        They’ve just had a heart attack, the stress and effort of moving house is probably not a good idea.

        But even if they hadn’t, I can think of plenty of circumstances that make moving hard.

        • The Chairman 4.2.1.1
          11 March 2017 at 1:57 pm

          Yes, I’m aware of that. However, that was recently, this has been going on for 18 months apparently. Thus, there was ample opportunity to move out beforehand.

          Moreover, why move into such a dive in the first place?

          • WILD KATIPO 4.2.1.1.1
            11 March 2017 at 3:04 pm

            To make room for my son to complete a certificate and so he could use the room I had to vacate when I was staying at my sisters and brother in- laws after relocating to Auckland to get a security job.

            That’s why.

            And as for moving into the dive?

            Do you have your head up your arse as well?

            It may be one step better than sleeping in a fucking car but not much bud.

            And why the fucking hell should I have to give you my bloody life story online in full public just to educate a moron like you anyway?

            • The Chairman 4.2.1.1.1.1
              11 March 2017 at 3:18 pm

              I have no need to hear your life story, thanks.

              I was merely trying to ascertain why you initially moved into such a dive and why you haven’t moved out?

              People generally move into dives because they are far cheaper to rent. And rents tend to reflect the standard and location of the property.

              • weka …
                11 March 2017 at 3:28 pm

                Both your previous comments came across as accusatory. Like WK shouldn’t have rented there in the first place, and should have moved out. Like I said, it’s not hard to imagine circumstances where that’s not easy, or even possible.

                Your comments are bizarre actually given there is a well known housing crisis going on.

                • The Chairman …
                  11 March 2017 at 3:36 pm

                  We can all speculate on their situation. I was merely trying to ascertain the facts in this case. Nothing bizarre or accusatory about it.

            • r0b 4.2.1.1.1.2
              11 March 2017 at 3:21 pm

              WK – Do you mind if I put your original comment up as a guest post tomorrow?

              • WILD KATIPO …
                11 March 2017 at 4:17 pm

                Go for your life.

                I’ve lived in millionaires homes when I was younger and I’ve lived a year up in the mountains in the middle of winter in a stone shack outside of Queenstown when I was goldmining in the rivers with a pump , floating dredge and wet- suit and another year in a mountain tent .

                Been self employed and owned a half mil dollar property of my own – then lost it all during 2008.

                And I reckon I’ve lived more of a life than half these far right wing wannabe pseudo intellectual neo liberal fanatics who comment on this blog site .

                And when I saw that article in the NZ Herald this morning , in light of whats been happening to so many New Zealander family’s having to sleep in cars and the like over the past few years – I thought ”FUCK IT !!”… Im going to say something.

                Because now this govt and their neo liberal perversions have just got personal.

                I’m fortunate that I’ve only got me to worry about.

                But at least when you live in the boon docks in a tent or an old abandoned stone shack its free. And you can accept a primitive lifestyle.

                But to get shafted and ripped off each and every bloody week just for the privilege of living in a shitty run down dogbox so some blighted little parasitic scum bag can live in comfort and climb up on your shoulders galls me to the bone.

                And the fact that pricks like this are being enabled to do so by this shitty, do nothing , hands off incumbent non govt should fill every decent and honest bastard full of rage.

          • McFlock 4.2.1.1.2
            11 March 2017 at 9:09 pm

            An individual’s ability to choose is proportionate to their net worth.

            That’s a rule that applies to far too many things in society, and you obviously have no idea just how fundamental it is.

            • The Chairman 4.2.1.1.2.1
              11 March 2017 at 9:38 pm

              I understand that. I was merely trying to establish if this was a factor in this case.

              If WK moved into this flat because of fiscal constraints, having it repaired may result in a rent increase. Which may force/price WK out.

              • McFlock …
                11 March 2017 at 9:47 pm

                Oh, so you just wanted to make sure that WK didn’t move into a dangerous shelter just so they could bitch about it? 🙄

                Your second sentence perfectly describes the point that you still seem to have managed to miss: if the housing system means that some people can only afford to live in dwellings that are hazardous to their health or have no dwelling whatsoever, then that system is broken. And people are trapped living in hovels.

                • The Chairman …
                  11 March 2017 at 10:30 pm

                  “Your second sentence perfectly describes the point that you still seem to have managed to miss”

                  Not at all. I agree the current system is failing some.

                  • McFlock …
                    11 March 2017 at 10:40 pm

                    So you were merely trying to establish that the system was failing WK, as opposed to what?

                    What benefit do you or anyone get putting WK’s story under a microscope? What’s your point?

                    • The Chairman …
                      11 March 2017 at 11:13 pm

                      No, I was trying to establish what the actual facts in this case are.

                      I wasn’t putting their story under a microscope. I merely asked two simple questions.

                      The point of this was to establish if fiscal constraints was/is the problem preventing WK from moving out.

                      I’ve seen a number of people complain about the state of their rented dwellings and advocating for a rental warrant while failing to consider that improvements to their dwellings would most likely lead to rent increases, thus forcing/pricing them out. Hence it’s not really the solution.

                    • McFlock …
                      11 March 2017 at 11:42 pm

                      What the actual facts are? As opposed to what you’ve already been told?

                      Your concern about possible future increases in rent is touching /sarc

                    • The Chairman …
                      11 March 2017 at 11:56 pm

                      “What the actual facts are? As opposed to what you’ve already been told?”

                      Yes, that’s correct. WK didn’t divulge why they didn’t just move out.

                      “Your concern about possible future increases in rent is touching /sarc”

                      You may find it funny and something to mock, but it’s a potential reality, thus a genuine concern.

                    • McFlock …
                      12 March 2017 at 12:23 am

                      No, I don’t find it funny.

                      I find it completely fucked up. I find your faux concern fucked up. I find it nuts that you think the take-home message is “don’t complain, because things might end up worse-off for you if you do”. I find it fucked up that you think people would be anything other than forced to live in circumstances that make them concerned for their lives and feel like they’re treated like animals. I think it’s fucked up that you need to know every fucking detail in order to avoid facing the obvious reasons as to why someone even moved into a place in the first place. I think it’s fucked up that you believe that just one more detail might suddenly make it all WK’s fault and a completely avoidable and solvable situation.

                      “Actual facts”??? Do you think WK was misleading you in some way? For fuck’s sake.

                    • lprent []
                      12 March 2017 at 1:15 am

                      Do you think WK was misleading you in some way? For fuck’s sake

                      Certainly doesn’t seem likely. In fact it simply seems likely.

                    • The Chairman …
                      12 March 2017 at 2:39 am

                      Once again, my concern is genuine.

                      Clearly you’ve misunderstood my comment above.

                      I wasn’t implying not to complain, I was highlighting why a rental warrant isn’t the best solution.

                      In WK’s case, being impacted by a rent increase as a result is a potential outcome, it’s not my take-home message for not complaining, it’s merely the reality which comes back to our broken system. And it’s not a system I support. So it’s not my rationale that’s fucked up.

                      Wk could have moved into the place for numerous reasons, location being one. I didn’t require to know every fucking detail as you put it. In fact WK told me far more than I needed to know, but failed to tell me what I wanted to know.

                      I’m not blaming WK for their current predicament, just trying to better understand it And no, I don’t think WK was misleading me, however my questions were not answered, therefore we can only speculate on why WK initially moved in, hasn’t moved out and has put up with it for so long.

                      Moreover, considering what he’s put out there, my questions were reasonable and to be expected.

                    • McFlock …
                      12 March 2017 at 5:55 pm

                      List three reasons that someone would stay for a year and a half in a shit-hole that puts them in fear of their health. Other than money.

    • The Chairman 4.3
      11 March 2017 at 3:31 pm

      “To Andrew Little. I believe you and Jacinda Adern have it in your power to do something about this sort of state of affairs that has been legitimized by this National govt up and down this country to so many of their fellow countrymen and women.”

      If they are elected into power, they will then have the power to do something.

      What do you want Little to do about it?

    • adam 4.4
      11 March 2017 at 6:06 pm

      WILD KATIPO as it is in the bathroom, you have rights.

      Phone around find the most expensive plumber you can find. THE MOST Expensive. Then find a sparky in the same camp. Explain to them the situation – the bill goes to the landlord. If you are in Auckland, some of these trades people are only to happy to help.

      Book them in to turn up in 24 hours, then inform the landlord what you have done on the ground of health and safety. And that in 24 hours this will be happening. As you will not let the property be damaged on your watch. Only a idiot landlord will not act at this point.

      All perfectly legal. And compliant to the residential tenancy act.

      • patricia 4.4.1
        11 March 2017 at 8:46 pm

        This particular landlord would not pay the bill. He has been aware of the conditions for years and makes no effort to improve them. Wants the rent on time though. In Auckland plumbers don’t start the job until they are guaranteed payment.

        • adam 4.4.1.1
          11 March 2017 at 11:15 pm

          That why I said try some of the expensive places, and tell them what is going on. You will be quietly surprised. They will get paid, as per the act – via the disputes tribunal and putting debt collectors on them. The big expensive outfits are the only option left, because they know the law, and will get their money.

          Small places can’t afford to not get payed. Or fight to get their money. Hence why they won’t do the job.

    • lprent 4.5
      12 March 2017 at 12:39 am

      Hey WK.

      If you need an assist in whatever you want to do I’d be happy to provide some.

      As you may have noticed, I really don’t like lazy dipshits, and deficient and grasping landlords are high in that list.

      Besides, we bearers of the stent could do to help our new brethren.

      Emailing is in the contact page. Happy to make time.

  5. BM 5
    11 March 2017 at 8:29 am

    it sounds like your landlord is breaking all sorts of rules, Unless YOU get off your arse and complain, though, nothing will change,

    It’s up to YOU , not Bill English or anyone else.

    https://tenancy.govt.nz/maintenance-and-inspections/

    • weka 5.1
      11 March 2017 at 8:46 am

      You don think the govt has a role in safety compliance for housing? Wow.

      WK already said what they’re going to do, despite having been seriously ill, did you even read the comment? Got any social conscience or intelligence at all?

      • BM 5.1.1
        11 March 2017 at 8:56 am

        I didn’t see the Tenancy Tribuna bit in his post/rant it was all a bit jumbled and hard to read.

        The point though is unless you raise issues with the appropriate authorities nothing will ever change,.

        And this has been going on for at least 18 months, why hasn’t he been to the tenancy tribunal already.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1.1.1
          11 March 2017 at 9:00 am

          Your snide flamebait reveals your character.

        • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1.2
          11 March 2017 at 9:16 am

          And just what can the tenancy tribunal actually do?

          Can it charge his landlord with attempted murder?
          Can it even fine him?
          Can it force him to refurbish the place to a liveable standard?

          Or is it like many of these government entities that have been set up over the decades that people are supposed to complain to but have no teeth to force anything?

        • weka 5.1.1.3
          11 March 2017 at 9:20 am

          “I didn’t see the Tenancy Tribuna bit in his post/rant it was all a bit jumbled and hard to read.”

          Nice try, but I managed it on a phone while unwell. I think more likely you just rushed through on your way to trolling.

          “The point though is unless you raise issues with the appropriate authorities nothing will ever change,.”

          Quite. When you have mass problems across the country, the governing party is the appropriate authority. Basically what you are saying is that all responsibility lies with the tenant, irrespective of their ability to go to the Tenancy Tribunal. In which case landlords are free to be as fuckwitted as they like until they caught by a private citizen. Nice.

          “And this has been going on for at least 18 months, why hasn’t he been to the tenancy tribunal already.”

          Have you ever been to the Tribunal BM?

          • BM 5.1.1.3.1
            11 March 2017 at 9:45 am

            I’m actually all for a rental WOF.

            Landlords are running a business and selling a service, what they sell should be up to scratch.

            The problem is at the moment, there’s a shortage of rentals, a rental WOF would probably remove at least 10% of the rental stock from the market as well as push up already over inflated rental prices.

            Once we get the housing situation under control then introduce a rental WOF at the moment I think it will cause more harm than good.

            • weka 5.1.1.3.1.1
              11 March 2017 at 10:02 am

              Ok, so not actually the fault of the person who just had a heart attack.

              “Once we get the housing situation under control”

              Oh good, you’re voting on the left this year then. Because National have admitted they don’t know what to do.

            • Antoine 5.1.1.3.1.2
              11 March 2017 at 10:43 am

              Any rental WOF needs to be well designed and implemented though

              I wasn’t much impressed by the one previously proposed

              • weka …
                11 March 2017 at 11:19 am

                You mean the one that was already trialled? What was wrong with it?

                • Antoine …
                  11 March 2017 at 11:24 am

                  From memory, it went too far beyond health and safety issues.

                  A.

                  • weka …
                    11 March 2017 at 11:26 am

                    Such as?

                    • BM …
                      11 March 2017 at 11:32 am

                      WOF should cover

                      – Electrics
                      – Water quality.
                      – Insulation ceilings/floor
                      – Weather tightness
                      – Waste water/toilets
                      – Locks
                      – Extraction fans kitchen/Bathroom
                      – Smoke alarms.
                      – Stairs and railings if multistory

                      Maybe heating.

                      Everything else is excessive

                    • weka …
                      11 March 2017 at 11:43 am

                      maybe heating, lol. You don’t live in the SI do you.

                      Ok, so cracks in the floorboards, mouldy walls, that sort of thing are not to be covered because that would be excessive?

                    • BM …
                      11 March 2017 at 11:48 am

                      Mouldy walls are covered by weather tightness and ventilation.
                      Cracked floorBoards? how big is the crack? you just need to duck down to any building supply and get some caulk, fixed for under $10.00

                      What sort of heating do you expect the landlord to cover?

                    • weka …
                      11 March 2017 at 11:54 am

                      “Mouldy walls are covered by weather tightness and ventilation.”

                      I’ve seen rooms that have mould that would pass a weather tight and ventilation test. Are you saying that it should be a weather tightness, ventilation, and mould check? Seems odd, I would put addressing mould as a separate category, especially given it’s potentially such a health risk.

                      “Cracked floorBoards? how big is the crack?”

                      Big enough to cause damage to your foot from the rough edge. My point was that you had excluded general repairs, or otherwise dangerous shit.

                      “What sort of heating do you expect the landlord to cover?”

                      Fixed heating. So a wood burner or heat pump or other form of electric heating that goes with the house (may as well ban gas on upgrades because of CC).

                    • BM …
                      11 March 2017 at 12:07 pm

                      I’ve seen rooms that have mould that would pass a weather tight and ventilation test. Are you saying that it should be a weather tightness, ventilation, and mould check? Seems odd, I would put addressing mould as a separate category, especially given it’s potentially such a health risk.

                      What’s causing the mould?

                      If the walls or roof is leaking no amount of ventilation is going to make a difference, you’re going to have mould issues.

                      Anything else can be fixed with decent ventilation or educating the tenants.

                      Fixed heating. So a wood burner or heat pump or another form of electric heating that goes with the house.

                      To heat a whole house (100-150 m2) with heat pumps you’re looking at 10-15k
                      The’s the problem if you start to get too overzealous you reach a point where the landlord says fuck it, kicks out the tenants, sells up and there’s one less rental.

                    • weka …
                      11 March 2017 at 1:05 pm

                      Previous occupiers not opening the bathroom window. So the ventilation and weathertightness would pass, but there is existing mould. Mould prevention isn’t the same as mould removal.

                      “The’s the problem if you start to get too overzealous you reach a point where the landlord says fuck it, kicks out the tenants, sells up and there’s one less rental.”

                      It’s only a problem if you think the housing market is more important than people’s health and wellbeing. The government can buy houses, get them up to scratch and add them to their HNZ managed rentals.

                      However I suspect that your point is based on the need to defend landlord profits rather than whether lots of landlords will really get out of the business. If a someone can’t install fixed heating in a house for far less than $15,000 they’re probably not competent to be a landlord.

                    • Graeme …
                      11 March 2017 at 1:20 pm

                      Maybe the ideal solution would be to get the crap that needs doing up out of the rental / investor market and either demolished or sold off cheaply to first home buyers as a do-up.

                      This is how a lot of us got our foot on the property ladder in past generations but openings are limited now.

                    • BM …
                      11 March 2017 at 1:21 pm

                      However I suspect that your point is based on the need to defend landlord profits rather than whether lots of landlords will really get out of the business. If a someone can’t install fixed heating in a house for far less than $15,000 they’re probably not competent to be a landlord.

                      If you’re installing fixed heating to a WOF standard and want to use heat pumps it will cost you 10-15k.

                      The only other form of electric heating you could use is resistance heating which is just your bar heaters so all you really need to do is provide a power point.

                      You could install a wood burner for 5k but a lot of tenants don’t want the hassle of having to chop wood also you’ll need a shed to store the wood.

                    • weka …
                      11 March 2017 at 3:09 pm

                      “If you’re installing fixed heating to a WOF standard and want to use heat pumps it will cost you 10-15k.”

                      What’s the standard?

                      “You could install a wood burner for 5k but a lot of tenants don’t want the hassle of having to chop wood also you’ll need a shed to store the wood”

                      Most firewood merchants cut wood to size now, no need for chopping. I’ve stored firewood under a tarp many times.

                    • weka …
                      11 March 2017 at 3:14 pm

                      “Maybe the ideal solution would be to get the crap that needs doing up out of the rental / investor market and either demolished or sold off cheaply to first home buyers as a do-up.

                      This is how a lot of us got our foot on the property ladder in past generations but openings are limited now.”

                      I think so too. The whole “landlords can’t afford it and will sell” line, apart from basically saying that some people should live in hovels, also misses the opportunity to sort this out once and for all and that it can be sorted out.

                      Imagine if we applied the same principle to a car WOF 🙄 People can’t afford to get the repairs done in their cars so we let’s not do a WOF system.

          • Antoine 5.1.1.3.2
            11 March 2017 at 10:42 am

            Crook today Weka? Sympathies

        • Red Hand 5.1.1.4
          11 March 2017 at 11:23 am

          He is a past painter and decorator living by himself with a heart condition, probably aggravated by the stress of getting nowhere with the head tenant.

          He has earned and deserves respect for the life he gave to his trade and the restraint and patience he has shown.

          My guess is he hasn’t been to the Tenancy Tribunal because he is stoical and has the dignity and expectation of good faith in others to try to fix it by a personal approach to the head tenant.

          • patricia 5.1.1.4.1
            11 March 2017 at 8:51 pm

            And once he goes to the Tenancy Tribunal he’ll be kicked out for some trumped up reason or other. Boarders don’t have many rights.

    • WILD KATIPO 5.2
      11 March 2017 at 8:54 am

      it sounds like your landlord is breaking all sorts of rules,

      That’s right. He is.

      And has been enabled by the same sort greedy governance that created the exploitative housing crisis in the first place.

      Is there a WARRANT OF FITNESS for New Zealand housing ?

      No.

      Have I gotten ‘OFF MY BACKSIDE ‘ ?

      Yes. I have mentioned this 18 months ago.

      Is the accommodation dangerous?

      Yes.

      Should I have had to ‘ GET OFF MY BACKSIDE’ in the first place?

      No.

      If there were adequate laws and safety standards in place in this country governing rental accommodation – this should never have had to happen.

      And do I have current health issues that might prevent me form ‘ GETTING OFF MY BACKSIDE’ and being Mr Fucking Action Man ?

      Yes.

      Especially if you regard a heart attack and hospitalization two weeks ago as a health issue.

      So stick it up your arse BM , you odious bastard.

      Im in no mood for ignorant pricks like you just currently.

      • Draco T Bastard 5.2.1
        11 March 2017 at 9:13 am

        +111

      • weka 5.2.2
        11 March 2017 at 9:21 am

        +1000 WK

        BM takes the dickhead of the day award, and so early in the morning.

      • Antoine 5.2.3
        11 March 2017 at 9:35 am

        Katipo

        Do you need help from someone on here in your approach to the Tenancy Tribunal?

        A.

        • WILD KATIPO 5.2.3.1
          11 March 2017 at 9:52 am

          ATM… just feeling a little bit like my blood pressures going through my head. The head tenants been out overnight, I’ll approach him when he returns. If he contacts the landlord and action is taken to avoid bringing in the Tribunal , well and good. If not , I’ll push the issue. Starting Monday. I should be fine by myself and thank you.

          I live by myself but family is not too far away , so I’m fortunate.

          Always was a tradie outdoors type worker , pretty physically strong but this heart business has been a real confidence knocker… so just a bit sort of weepy atm… Id like to say thank you for the moral support from both Draco and weka and yourself. Ive spoken enough about housing here before but now Im REALLY feeling part of it.

          So ironic L0L !

          Cheers people

          🙂

          • weka 5.2.3.1.1
            11 March 2017 at 10:14 am

            Take care matey! Three weeks isn’t very long to recover. Stress if a funny thing, sometimes it’s easier to do something stressful than do nothing about another stressor, but can you also take some time with this?

            I’m wondering if there are pathways through the Tribunal process that mean its expedited on the grounds of health or danger.

            • WILD KATIPO 5.2.3.1.1.1
              11 March 2017 at 10:52 am

              I dunno , but atm Im taking a back seat and just going to relax… that head pounding feeling isn’t pleasant… so Ill kick back for the rest of the day ,get some sleep then have another go.

              cheers.

          • mary_a 5.2.3.1.2
            11 March 2017 at 5:38 pm

            @ Wild Katipo … been following your sad situation through this blog. Makes for pretty shocking reading, that circumstances such as yours being allowed to prevail in NZ in the first place to decent Kiwis!

            More publicity needs to be drawn to issues such as yours, with some serious scrutiny being done on your living conditions, along with the obscene profits gained from scurrilous landlords, preying on good people such as yourself in need of accommodation! From what you have written, your plight seems pretty appalling to say the least, sub human in fact! You and others like you need advocates to act on your behalf.

            I wish you all the best in getting some positive action here. Take very good care of yourself my friend and look after that good heart of yours.
            Cheers
            Mary

      • Sabine 5.2.4
        11 March 2017 at 10:38 am

        well said.
        so very well said.

      • Red 5.2.5
        11 March 2017 at 4:33 pm

        Sorry to hear your plight

        If your not getting what your paying for stop paying your rent or partial pay , let him do all the work re getting you to tenancy tribunal

        • adam 5.2.5.1
          11 March 2017 at 5:58 pm

          Red, stop offering advise that breaks the law.

          You can not stop paying the rent, you will be evicted.

          As it is a breach of the Tenancy act, you give an automatic win in any tribunal hearing to a land lord. NO matter the circumstances which drove you to not pay rent.

          You have to pay rent, to even the worst scum sucking leech. Tenants have no power, no matter how reality shows try to tell the lie otherwise.

    • millsy 5.3
      11 March 2017 at 8:59 pm

      It you go to the Tenancy Tribunal, then there is a risk of getting a retaliatory eviction. Plain and simple. If a landlord wants to get rid of you, he will find a way. Despite what landlords moan about, it is actually quite easy to evict a tenant.

  6. Carolyn_nth 6
    11 March 2017 at 8:38 am

    On RNZ website: “Northern storm due in part to climate change – professor”

    Professor James Renwick has been in Northland this week to help raise funds for a climate change sculpture in Kerikeri by the artist Chris Booth.

    Professor Renwick said that was increasingly the trend as the climate changes.

    “Looking further afield California is a classic example. They’ve had years of severe drought and hardly any snow on the mountains.

    “And now, this winter that is just gone, they’ve been absolutely pounded … the dams are bursting and all the rest of it.

    “And that’s exactly the picture, you get long periods of severe drought and then when it starts to rain it really hammers down.

    Can’t be a great week to be living in NZ’s north – whether it be people living in the open, on streets, in garages, in cars, or with families sharing to small a living space.

  7. AsleepWhileWalking 7
    11 March 2017 at 9:16 am

  8. Carolyn_nth 8
    11 March 2017 at 9:17 am

    Marama Davidson on the privatisation of state housing in Glen Innes:

    She cuts through all the BS that the redevelopment is benefiting local HNZ tenants.

    Niki represents a community of people who feel that they have been shunted around as if they are of little consequence. They have stayed defiant because they can see through the rhetoric that the redevelopment of their neighbourhood is about helping the locals and doing up old houses. In fact, the redevelopment is benefitting wealthy developers and property investors who get to dally around with a small bit of social housing on the side so they can justify their land grab.

    The plan to redevelop Tāmaki does not have the support of the very people it is supposed to be helping….
    …
    The National government did not just let the housing crisis happen. Their policy settings have designed the shortage of affordable, state, and social housing. Through its tax policy, this government has encouraged the use of houses for business investment instead of for living in as homes. This has helped put both rents and mortgages out of reach for too many people, in a way this country has not seen before. This is the housing crisis.

    • Red Hand 8.1
      11 March 2017 at 7:47 pm

      This reminds me of another National Party hypocrisy. Bolger’s support for the idea of social capital as somehow linked to the preservation of strong market incentives ie. vote National and you will be enabled to get ahead at the expense of the community.

      “For Bolger (1998), social capital does not draw on “old fashioned, discredited socialism” but rather his conviction of the “strength, goodness and commonsense of communities”. He speaks of a change of emphasis from economic capital to social capital: recent economic reforms will preserve strong market incentives, now, apparently, all we need to develop a new approach to social policy which will empower communities to deal with the many social problems facing them.”

      http://www.amat.org.nz/Neoliberalism.pdf

  9. Siobhan 9
    11 March 2017 at 10:37 am

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/90189659/witness-jailed-for-refusing-to-answer-questions-gets-new-insights-in-prison

    There is nothing I can say here…its simply a link to a very interesting point of view about the effects and reality of imprisonment. Though also interesting from a legal point of view, yet to be fully played out in the courts.

  10. Andre 10
    11 March 2017 at 10:48 am

    Elon Musk sets the cat among the pigeons with an open offer to South Australia for grid scale batteries to cover intermittency problems with South Australia’s high proportion of wind and solar generation. That’s a real in-your-face challenge to the fossil-heads in Canberra.

    https://arstechnica.com/business/2017/03/elon-musk-on-batteries-for-australia-installed-in-100-days-or-it-is-free/

  11. Carolyn_nth 11
    11 March 2017 at 10:53 am

    I’m curious as to what the named IT tools are in this advert for a Linux admin person at NZ’s 5Eyes operation (applications close 31 March 2017):

    This role is in a team of proactive and positive staff who enjoy leveraging current and emerging technologies for mission outcomes. The team is a growth area for GCSB with a roadmap of interesting and diverse technical projects for the right applicant to enjoy. The GCSB offers a competitive salary, health insurance and flexible working hours. If you are interested in putting your technical skills towards keeping New Zealand safe and prosperous in an innovative and unconventional technical domain, this is the role you are looking for.

    We are looking for someone with experience in Linux systems administration at the RHCSA level or equivalent and one or more of the following areas is required:

    Virtualisation administration at the VCP/RHCVA level or equivalent.
    Infrastructure provisioning tools such as Puppet, Chef or Ansible.
    Network administration at the CCNA level or equivalent.
    ICT systems design.
    ICT systems security experience.

    • dv 11.1
      11 March 2017 at 11:29 am

      What about it Lpent.
      Could be interesting.

      • lprent 11.1.1
        11 March 2017 at 3:28 pm

        Not my kind of thing. I prefer to write code rather than running systems.

        The only reason that I run this system is because of a favor asked long long ago by some people on the original crew, and because I can treat it as a semi interesting hobby rather than real work. I have always detested it when I have wound up doing the IT department’s work rather than development.

        I suspect that whoever they are after is just a flunky to run some of their infrastructure rather than something I’d ever find interesting.

    • One Two 11.2
      11 March 2017 at 2:46 pm

      It is a generic role listing for an administrator/systems/network engineer

      The tools listed are ‘out of the box’, and the level indicated for the role would be lower intermediate to intermediate

      Face value

      • lprent 11.2.1
        11 March 2017 at 3:30 pm

        Indeed. I find it bad enough running a vSphere cluster for the testing crew. And at least I have skin in that. They’re often testing my code.

        • Carolyn_nth 11.2.1.1
          11 March 2017 at 3:44 pm

          Thanks, Lynn and One Two.

          They’re often testing my code.

          You mean intermediate level admin people at your work? Not GCSB admin people?

          • lprent 11.2.1.1.1
            11 March 2017 at 4:04 pm

            Nope – definitely not. Nor the IT people.

            The wonderful Testers who find my bugs for me before the customers do. They are some of my favorite people.

            And for the record, and because I have been known to indulge in it on the odd occassion, there was no irony at all on those statements.

            Being able to test integrated systems systematically and repeatably is a skill that so few people lack that it rates for me as a talent. I can (and often do) write unit-tests and functional tests pr perform bench testing all day and never find some of the integration flaws and outright bugs these people do.

            When you’re putting dozens of hardware and software units together in an integrated system over a wireless system, being able to work on flaws long enough to describe a reproducible condition is freaking hard. Yet some people (unlike me) can do it. That means that I can find and kill the damn thing.

            • halfcrown 11.2.1.1.1.1
              12 March 2017 at 10:02 am

              Very interesting Iprent As a mech engineer computer technology to me is really mind blowing. especially the advancement in the design and draughting area’s. From drawing boards and slide rules and modern day 3D drawing programmes.
              I have always admired you guys because as an engineer mechanical problems are easy to find. If it rattles, it is too loose, if it gets too hot it’s too tight and if it squeaks it needs a little lubricant. Dead easy not like you guys especially some of the ones I have met who have built programmes so all the mechanical bits work in the right sequence. In your game when you turn the switch on and nothing happens. you always seem to know where to look. without getting zapped or causing major problems, with no indication or signs of the problem.

  12. Poission 12
    11 March 2017 at 11:16 am

    Amazon bestsellers list,led by Reasons To Vote For Democrats: A Comprehensive Guide

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/books/ref=sv_b_2

    • weka 12.1
      11 March 2017 at 11:23 am

      Someone should sell stamps and stamping pads with various words that people can print into the book themselves. Old school, but retro, very trendy.

      Fascism
      Tr*mp
      President Bannon

      • adam 12.1.1
        11 March 2017 at 12:35 pm

        weka, and your list is why this limited form of democracy is a sick joke.

        Bugger the democrats, seriously they put up a hard right conservative, and we are suppose to think that is better?

        Seriously trump is bad, but to be frightened to vote conservative is just as evil. This was, and is the whole issue, why vote for the lesser evil, when all you get served is evil? Demand better.

        • weka 12.1.1.1
          11 March 2017 at 1:07 pm

          Of course.

          If the election were to be held over, and you had a vote, and the choice was Tr*mp and co, or Clinton, who would you vote for?

          • adam 12.1.1.1.1
            11 March 2017 at 1:29 pm

            I don’t vote for evil.

            To vote for evil, is morally bankrupt.

            h.r.c and trump are both evil, different faces of it, but both are equally lacking in a moral compass, and a innate sense of goodness.

            It’s like asking someone if they want their leg cut off at the knee, or at the hip, it is just degrees of nasty.

            • Andre 12.1.1.1.1.1
              11 March 2017 at 2:03 pm

              Gosh, I really hope that one day I will feel sufficiently privileged and disconnected from other humans that when it comes to the moment of actually voting, I can opt out of the unpalatable task of choosing the least bad realistic option for the future while adopting a sneering morally superior tone about my cop-out.

              • adam …
                11 March 2017 at 4:11 pm

                You could try morals Andre. It’s not about sneering, it’s about demanding better.

                I’d point out your approach got us to trump.

                • Andre …
                  11 March 2017 at 4:26 pm

                  Your approach fucks over the Standing Rock tribe.

                  Your approach fucks over everybody affected by the appointment of Scott Pruitt to the EPA – ie everyone on this planet.

                  Your approach fucks over all the people suffering from the increase in hate in the US over the last six months.

                  Your approach fucks over … the list is very long.

                  My approach was to support Bernie all the way to the point where he no longer had any chance of winning the nomination. Then I swallowed hard and changed my support to the next least bad realistic alternative. Here in New Zealand, the Greens are the party likely to get into government that is least bad from my perspective. So my approach is I’ll support them, even though I have serious problems with some of their positions.

                  Who are you going to fuck over in September because no party with a chance of getting into Parliament in New Zealand is pure and moral enough for you?

                  • rhinocrates …
                    11 March 2017 at 4:46 pm

                    And will he expect them to thank him for his exemplary display of moral purity? Will they – and it’s always ‘they’ or ‘them’, always someone else – willingly sacrifice their welfare and lives because he tells them it’s for a higher cause?

                    There’s a point where moral purity becomes sanctimony, and that is the vice of hypocrisy that accommodates other people’s suffering as a mark of one’s supposed virtue.

                    I’ve friends directly affected by Trump’s actions and they can certainly tell the difference between Clinton and Trump. For at least one friend of mine in the States, it’s no delicate discussion about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin or whether its sinful to whistle on a Tuesday, it’s literally life and death for her with her health coverage disappearing and the spike in hate crimes against her community. She’s made it abundantly clear that she’d take great pleasure in making balloon animals with the intestines of people like Adam who refused to vote or wasted their vote on Stein because they wanted to strike a pose.

                    • Andre …
                      11 March 2017 at 5:05 pm

                      Yeah, I’ve just had my sister-in-law and niece visiting.

                      One of them works for a church in a Trump county. She’s got some really sad stories to tell, that have got a lot worse since November.

                      The other is a doctor whose last several positions were in Trump counties where there were severe opioid addiction problems. She’s currently doctoring in an impoverished area here in NZ, and has decided to lengthen her time here for several years beyond her original plans. Although the fact that she’s spending most of her time being a doctor instead of administering paperwork for insurance purposes has something to do with that.

                    • adam …
                      11 March 2017 at 5:17 pm

                      Who is pure? I’ve never asked for purity, you seem obsessed by it rhinocrates, oddly enough. I’m asking for people to be moral, and act on it.

                      That aside did you miss that the Democrats lost everything, THEY LOST EVERYTHING! The house, the senate, and the presidency. So the Stein argument is a lie. Try watching somthing other MSNBC.

                      But sure live in lala land, where people who actually make moral choices are the enemy.

                    • Bill …
                      11 March 2017 at 5:33 pm

                      Yeah. Okay, that’s basically endorsing always putting others in charge. And those people that voters put in charge then determine what health policy or other social welfare policy will be brought forward, or not brought forward, or rolled back, or never discussed, based on their approach to and degree of accommodation towards capitalist markets.

                      Their rule is illegitimate – ie, they can’t justify it. And they always in representative democracies, in parliamentary systems, serve and never fundamentally question financial and business interests – interests that run on deliberate systems of trade and production and distribution that (in case you’ve missed it) have brought us screaming right on up to a cliff edge at a great rate of knots. (resources fucked, peoples’ lives fucked, the climate fucked, eco-systems fucked)

                      And yet still most advocate that we continue voting until the cows come home in some vain hope that there will one day be worthy leaders determined to do what is right. (There will an occasional exception that will serve to prove the rule, who will be swiftly stomped on and removed to the dead lands beyond the far fringes)

                      Not voting while seeking to develop parallel organsiational structures for society is entirely legitimate – and certainly more mature than just voting once every three, four or five years and going home ‘to the telly’ after the two minutes of participation as most people are apt to do.

                      And there are dozens of other legitimate routes of agency implied by those positions sketched out above.

                      But. How long now before we see the tired old mantra wheeled out? The one that claims that those who do not vote have no right to complain? Talk about defining politics and possibilities in the narrowest and most disempowering (not to mention downright dangerous) terms….

                    • rhinocrates …
                      11 March 2017 at 7:26 pm

                      Allowing millions to be fucked over, often with fatal consequences, while knowing that it will happen as a consequence of your position is not a moral choice, it is a narcissistic one.

                      The people who suffer as a result will not thank you for sacrificing them.

                      That’s not living in lala land, la la land is a place where there are no consequences and hurt doesn’t matter. Living in reality means realising that there are more important things than keeping your hands lily white.

                      The opposition of voting versus joining a co-op is nonsensical – some of us can walk and chew gum at the same time.

                      It is also nonsensical to assume that if one ignores the state of the world as it is like a petulant child, it will magically go away and be replaced by exactly what you wish for. Power abhors a vacuum and if somehow representative democracy could be suddenly swept away, history has shown that what replaces it is usually much, much worse.

                      … and don’t presume to know what anybody does IRL away from a keyboard.

                    • adam …
                      11 March 2017 at 10:42 pm

                      “… and don’t presume to know what anybody does IRL away from a keyboard.”

                      Ditto.

                      rhinocrates I’m not ignoring the world, as in the fact this was a hypothetical question, so I gave a answer to it.

                      You have point blankly refused to look at reality, the democrat’s have failed across the board. Why? They have failed, and you are ignoring it. It is becasue they are corrupt. That the whole so called establishment left in the USA have given up on working people, any chance you can see that?

                      Look I’ve got friends who will kill themselves when their health insurance runs out. That is reality, a harsh one. And you going to blame me, for a democratic party with no back bone, and no trust left with working people. You are going to have a go, becasue I say the system is broken. And say we should forget the ballot and fight for our rights. Well. It’s good to know where you stand.

                      Because here is the hypocrisy – If you buy into democracy, the right win, and they get to do what they want to do. People are going to suffer, that what happens in the system you are defending.

                      If you don’t get I’m fighting against evil, them you missing the point. and I can’t say too much more.

                    • rhinocrates …
                      12 March 2017 at 11:33 am

                      Adam, ‘fighting against evil’ is good, I don’t deny that you’re doing it, but you’ve become so obsessed with it as a Manichaean battle that you’ve ignored the collateral damage. If you are ‘good’, or label yourself as such, it does not necessarily follow that the consequences of what you do or fail to do are good.

                      I don’t give a toss about how virtuous you are. I care about the consequences of the kinds of actions or avoidance of action you promote. Right now I see people suffering because people who could have voted against Trump didn’t.

                      Trump’s win could have been prevented – a third of the electorate stayed at home, being too cool for school. There are direct consequences that were not part of the Democratic platform. Trump campaigned on anti-environmentalism, anti-semitism, islamophobia, homophobia, racism, misogyny and lo and behold, since his election, there has been a sharp rise in hate crimes that he inspired. These were not part of the Democratic Party campaign or policy.

                      Capitalism may be evil, but it is not the only evil in the world.

                      I agree that the Democratic party is corrupted, as are left parties worldwide that sold their souls to neoliberalism and called it the ‘centre’ (and don’t falsely assume that I’ve I’ve failed to see that – I’ve been very critical here about the state of the Labour Party). However, Sanders’ incursion at least showed that people aren’t chicken and changes were possible. In the aftermath they may get the kick up the arse that they need. One positive has been the spike in women now intending to run for office. Hopefully they will instigate change. Slowly, yes, but that’s life.

                      The left parties around the world are in a crisis of identity and integrity. In NZ at least we are able to cast protest votes for potential coalition partners or to at least get a voice in parliament. To hand a victory to the far right by saying they were always going to win is abdication and cowardice dressed up in sanctimony.

                      That is reality, a harsh one. And you going to blame me, for a democratic party with no back bone

                      With a disaster of this magnitude, there’s a lot of blame to go around and certainly plenty to spend on both. So what if you don’t get exactly what you want, completely and immediately? That’s no reason to throw your toys out of the cot; that’s a reason to work long and hard.

                      Two quotes from Voltaire: The perfect is the enemy of the good and The greatest crime is to do nothing because we can only do a little

                  • adam …
                    11 March 2017 at 5:04 pm

                    My approach does not do any fornicating as you put it, it demands action. Not giving away sovereignty blindly to evil people.

                    You need to answer that question yourself, and you have, you are are willing to forsake morals for political power.

                    Yeah, not a choice I’m willing to make. Nor am I willing to stand aside, and let us keep falling into the abyss. Morality drives me to say, and act for the better world, not accept evil lithely.

                    Is it shocking to you that a stark evil is on display? Because you can help change that, and voting is only one part. I’d argue a very very small part, you can, and should do more. A lot more. Rather than get worked up by voting, which at the end of the day in a world dominated by corporations, is fast becoming the public illusion it always was. Try joining with others to improve your local community. Maybe sell your car, do some gardening, or join a Co-Op.

                  • Bill …
                    11 March 2017 at 5:40 pm

                    Your approach fucks over the Standing Rock tribe

                    Nope. Voting people into positions of power whereby they could essentially ‘lord it over’ others fucked…well, much more than anything that’s just limited to Standing Rock.

                    • Andre …
                      11 March 2017 at 5:59 pm

                      Uh, Bill, there’s the minor matter of a thing called reality. Reality says we’re stuck with operating within the system we have now and for the foreseeable future.

                      Kidding ourselves that we can ignore or opt out of that simply cedes power to the nastier arseholes. Whereas engaging with reality at least gives us the chance to cede power to the not-quite-as-nasty arseholes that have at least a vague interest in our views and a chance of some overlap of vision for the future.

                      If that ugly reality of the system we have to work within ever changes, then we’ll have to make our decisions and take actions within that new framework. But it will still be in everyone’s interest to engage with it as it is, rather than pretending that opting out is a better choice.

                    • adam …
                      11 March 2017 at 6:12 pm

                      Sheesh Andre, why don’t you just admit you are a conservative and give up.

                      Seriously if people thought and acted like you we would not have any democracy, we would not have a end to slavery, we would not have women participating, no rights, nothing, all we’d have is the right to bow our heads, and say “Yes MASSA”

                    • Bill …
                      11 March 2017 at 6:15 pm

                      Uh, Bill, there’s the minor matter of a thing called reality. Reality says …

                      Our current systems of governance persist precisely for as long as we lend them credence. And not a moment longer. They have no life of their own and there is no immutable reality or law of nature determining how we govern that means we have no option but acquiescence.

                      Actually, it might be better if there was. Thinking CC here and how we seem to imagine basic laws of physics can be ignored…

                      Anyway, where did anyone suggest we ignore or opt out of stuff related to governance?

                      I could vote. And I could simultaneously undermine some very basic assumptions and expectations attached to ‘from on high’ governance by dint of how I arrange my society with others. Or I could not vote.

                    • Andre …
                      11 March 2017 at 6:43 pm

                      Adam, slavery ended because people voted for a president that was against slavery, and was willing to go to war over it.

                      Women’s suffrage happened because people voted in legislators that supported it.

                      MMP happened because people voted for it.

                      The common factor in all these things? People voted for it, and won.

                      Yes, those votes were preceded by lots of hard work by activists that were subject to derision and worse in building the movement. And building the movement is essential. But voting for legislators sympathetic to the movement, or at least less hostile, is equally essential. At least until we move to a system that does away with the legislators.

                      Sorry about filling your replies tab, Bill. But as far as opting out of governance, in the case of an election like the recent US one, refusing to consider one of the two candidate with a chance of winning and instead going for an option with absolutely no chance, as adam apparently would have done had he been eligible, is effectively opting out.

                    • One Two []
                      11 March 2017 at 6:51 pm

                      Do you believe the civil war was about slavery, Andre?

                    • Andre …
                      11 March 2017 at 7:01 pm

                      One Two, all the history and evidence I’ve ever come across suggests that yes, slavery was a big part of what the US Civil War was about. But feel free to tell us what it was about in your alternative history. Probably best to start a fresh comment, though, rather than fill Bill’s replies tab.

                    • adam …
                      11 March 2017 at 9:59 pm

                      Wow Andre you just didn’t read what I said.

                      Just a couple of points.

                      One I did not say women suffrage, so where you dragged that from I’m not sure.

                      And two, how did we get the vote? Do you know, how did we win rights?

                      I think you need to stop assuming Andre, and start reading – just a suggestion.

                  • One Two …
                    11 March 2017 at 6:39 pm

                    Being wedded to belief systems leads to actions spawned, which paint individuals and groups into boxes…

                    Ego then ensures the box remain closed, and emotion takes over by lashing out at others with differing opinions

                  • Psycho Milt …
                    11 March 2017 at 7:42 pm

                    Your approach fucks over the Standing Rock tribe.

                    Your approach fucks over everybody affected by the appointment of Scott Pruitt to the EPA – ie everyone on this planet.

                    Your approach fucks over all the people suffering from the increase in hate in the US over the last six months.

                    Your approach fucks over … the list is very long.

                    Fuck, yes. “I won’t vote for the lesser of two evils because I have morals” is why the USA is currently enjoying the dubious benefits of a descent into authoritarianism. If your morals involve assisting that process, it’s time to review your morals.

                    • adam …
                      11 March 2017 at 9:50 pm

                      LOL, don’t ever stop Psycho Milt. Your muddled thinking is always good for a laugh.

                      [lprent: Translated loosely and almost sympathetically: I agree to disagree. ]

            • weka 12.1.1.1.1.2
              11 March 2017 at 3:11 pm

              Does that mean you wouldn’t vote? Which in this case would be an affirmative for Tr*mp. I understand where you are coming from ethically, I’m just pointing out the pragmatics.

              • adam …
                11 March 2017 at 4:21 pm

                As we have had that choice for some time, and all it brings us is worse and worse people in politics. Pragmatics be damned, why support a steady slow crippling corruption?

                So yeah I would not vote, and do what I normally do – get organised.

                In our case New Zealand has great laws around Co-Operatives. Why are not people doing this more?

                But to rely on the tired old political parties is beyond a sad joke. That is why I’m glad we have MMP, but even that has done far to little to improve the morality of our politicians, as this current government has put on display so often.

                • weka …
                  11 March 2017 at 9:21 pm

                  “But to rely on the tired old political parties is beyond a sad joke.”

                  Bill made similar commentary. Problem with that line is that it assumes that voting for the lesser evil (or in my case, the pragmatic choice), equates to relying on them.

                  Myself, I’ve been pretty up front that I think parliamentary politics is pretty much only good for holding the line while the real work gets done elsewhere. But I (and you) shouldn’t minimise it that much, because they still do some useful things, and that holding the line is the difference between super nasty and less nasty. You seem to believe we still have a choice for not nasty. In CC terms I think we are past that point. Which doesn’t mean we are without hope, but that whatever happens next it’s unlikely to be the revolution.

                  “In our case New Zealand has great laws around Co-Operatives. Why are not people doing this more?”

                  When people like yourself, Bill and me can’t work together, it’s probably not reasonable to expect others to who aren’t naturally interesting in that kind of co-operation.

                  • Poission …
                    11 March 2017 at 9:41 pm

                    Myself, I’ve been pretty up front that I think parliamentary politics is pretty much only good for holding the line

                    The status quo constraint,where real democratic contrarian debate is extinguished at all cost.

                    The illusion of democratic participation is well known,where the minority controls what is debated,where and when.

                    Galam (2004) for example showed in contrarian dynamics interesting properties arise.

                    “Applying our results to the European Union leads to the conclusion that it would be rather misleading to initiate large
                    public debates in most of the involved countries. Indeed, even starting from a huge initial majority of people in favor of the European Union, an open and free debate would lead to the creation of huge majority hostile to the European Union. This provides a strong ground to legitimize the on-going reluctance of most Europe an governments to hold referendum on associated issues.”

                    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378437103009695

                  • adam …
                    11 March 2017 at 10:15 pm

                    First point weka, I do work with Bill, mainly in picking his brain stuff. But as I’m a work locally type, and he is down the other end of the country, better to work the way we do.

                    As for working with you, I’d be happy to do that. I would not say I could not work with you.

                    What worries me, is so many here have got upset by a hypothetical question. Indeed a couple have gone into the realms of personal attack on a hypothetical not realising that we don’t actually live in the USA.

                    As I said and people have been deliberately obtuse about the NZ situation, and really don’t like being questioned on their morals.

                    I just don’t see the point in talking in circles with people who don’t want to listen to new ideas, or ideas which differ from theirs.

  13. rhinocrates 13
    11 March 2017 at 12:34 pm

    There’s ‘stupid’, ‘fucking idiot’ and then there’s ‘Trump supporter,’ which adds an extra slice of odiousness.

    http://io9.gizmodo.com/trump-supporters-get-mad-because-they-think-the-man-in-1793159888?utm_campaign=socialflow_io9_facebook&utm_source=io9_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

    Amazon announced this week that it was launching Resistance Radio as a companion program for The Man in the High Castle, an alt-history drama loosely adapted from the Philip K. Dick novel. The pre-recorded radio program is basically a bunch of people talking about how the Third Reich is bad and does bad things. For some, they thought that applied to America’s current president (and/or they didn’t bother actually listening to it). In response, several irate opposers flocked to Amazon’s sponsored #ResistanceRadio hashtag to complain about the station’s “liberal agenda.”

    Think about it, as one commenter puts it,

    Trump supporter finds radio station talking about how terrible the Reich is, and how they should be opposed, and immediately starts defending the Nazi’s. What in the actual fuck?

  14. joe90 14
    11 March 2017 at 1:39 pm

    Hard on the heels of yesterday’s I don’t remember what I was doing inside that building…..

  15. fisiani 15
    11 March 2017 at 2:13 pm

    3.9 Reserve Powers for NZ Council
    3.9.1 NZ Council shall be authorised to suspend or cancel a leadership election in exceptional circumstances including, without limitation, the following:
    • The death of a candidate;
    • The calling of a General Election;
    • Where NZ Council considers that the democratic integrity of the election process has been seriously undermined.

    According to the Labour Party rules quoted above there does not need to be a leadership election when a general election has been called. This is understandable given that the process takes several weeks. Grant Robertson knows this. He has an opportunity to become leader by a simple majority vote in Caucus. If Labour keep polling badly and Chicken is behind Jacinda in preferred PM I’d predict he would make his move after June 23rd.That would be disastrous for Labour and given that Grant’s ambitions are insatiable he would put his own ambitions above those of Labour. You have been warned.

  16. Andre 16
    11 March 2017 at 2:34 pm

    Gattaca, here we come.

    “Sponsored by Rep. Virginia Foxx, R-North Carolina, the bill known as HR 1313 would allow for employers participating in “workplace wellness” programs to require their employees go through genetic testing, or risk taking a financial hit.”

    http://www.salon.com/2017/03/10/house-committee-passes-bill-that-could-allow-employers-to-require-genetic-testing/

  17. joe90 17
    11 March 2017 at 3:03 pm

    heh

    Thanks to Private Eye for reminding us that post-truth politics existed in 1710. Back then, it was referred to as 'lying'. pic.twitter.com/KaAzDLAhyR— James Melville (@JamesMelville) March 10, 2017

    https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/840092450119073792

  18. lprent 18
    11 March 2017 at 3:11 pm

    Umm musing…

    Looks like I might have to cut statcounter (one of our trackers) out of the site. It looks like they may be having some problems.

    For a start, we’ve been getting some delays from statcounter over the last month not responding and slowing the page loads down. Something that is frigging irritating bearing in mind that only reason for having a visible tracker is to provide the Open Parachute ranking.

    But I also just analyzed their tracking against the back end logs. That was because there was a major discrepancy between google analytics and their measurements. About 35k page views in February. It looks like google is right and statcounter close to 10% down.

    And that was after statcounter dropped 43k page views into the count on Feb 27 – something that looks like a database scan and fix job.

    They did something similar to The Daily Blog earlier in the month.

    I think that either a server dropped off or they started missing something like the mobiles.

    But I’ve looked at what has been happening since, and there is still a significiant daily discrepancy between the three measures. Stat counter is down by several thousand page views per day.

    There is always a variation on sessions because each tracking site uses different algorithms. Which is why sessions are pretty useless to measure on.

    But the human page views have been generally conformant between trackers. There are variations on the page view counting, but that is mainly dependent on the timezone of measurement for a day and if the tracker is executed at the top of the page or at the end. Usually a variation of just a few hundred human page views over a week. Nothing visible anywhere on the statcounter site about a problem. In fact the site seems a bit dead. They have been happy to take our money each month.

    That does kind of mean that there are getting to be a dearth of reliable trackers with a public face that something like Open Parachute can use. Sitemeter has completely screwed up several times in the past few years. There are a couple of others, but as each needs considerable testing before I can trust it on a high volume site. And I don’t have the time.

    I’ll watch statcounter to the end of the month. If they continue to screw up then I’ll remove their drag on the site. Google analytics does a good job and is what I actually use for most analysis. I can take the money from statcounter and go and buy some services from them, or just look for a couple of paid plugins to enhance the site.

    • Andre 18.1
      11 March 2017 at 3:17 pm

      Several of us were having problems with statcounter slowing down page loading so we ended up installing a blocker suggested by BM (uBlock Origin). Dunno if that will cause a discrepancy between the different counters.

      • lprent 18.1.1
        11 March 2017 at 3:54 pm

        It would 🙂

        However it would have taken an awful lot of you to doing it to cause that level of discrepancy. It also doesn’t explain that whacking great pile of added page views on the 27th.

        But yeah, statcounter has been a bit of a nuisance for speed lagging for a while now. Not as bad as sitemeter was before I got rid of it off the site years ago. I’d prefer to just use analytics which is very fast, non-intrusive and gives better stats as well. It is also pretty interesting watching it dodge blockers 🙂

        However I decided a while ago that it was a good idea to leave a public track. It gives something for sites to aspire to 😈 What I should do is find out how to give some public access to the stats off that to Ken at Open Parachute. Analytics allows for specific logins to be able to access specific data. Maybe he’d leave off tormenting the flouridephobes for a while and code something to do that.

  19. Andre 19
    11 March 2017 at 3:46 pm

    It’s coming up to Saturday morning east coast USA time. Brace yourselves for another twitter eruption.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-tweets-saturday-jared-kushner-ivanka-shabbat-235902

  20. Carolyn_nth 20
    11 March 2017 at 4:11 pm

    OMG. Mr Bradbury must have had a Damascus moment!

    Suddenly it’s no longer boomers that are responsible for all our ills or for inter-generation warfare. It’s neoliberalism!

  21. adam 21
    11 March 2017 at 4:38 pm

    Funny how the Kurds are just ignored, Turkey is loving our looking the other way.

    https://washingtonhatti.com/2017/02/25/korukoy-a-kurdish-city-in-turkeys-seast-has-been-under-siege-for-14-days/

    http://stockholmcf.org/hdps-baydemir-takes-military-blockade-in-korukoy-to-parliaments-agenda/

    https://libcom.org/news/turkey-torture-murder-state-kurdish-village-koruk%C3%B6y-09032017

    So not only are we accepting torture as normal, which it is not. It is morally bankrupt.

    We seem to now accept without much question the labeling of ordinary citizens as terrorists, and terrorising them.

  22. joe90 22
    11 March 2017 at 10:25 pm

    TL;DW – the more polarised the electorate gets the greater the chance frog is boiled and the baby goes out with the bath water.

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