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Open mike 11/09/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:30 am, September 11th, 2013 - 107 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

107 comments on “Open mike 11/09/2013 ”

  1. Jenny 1

    The bush fire season starts early in Australia. Spring time temperatures of 30 degrees C, mixed with high winds are fanning a large number of fires in New South Wales.

    Briefing parliament on Tuesday, NSW Premier Barry O’Farrell said 59 bush and grassfires were burning across the state with more than 500 firefighters and 200 appliances on the ground.

    Sydney Morning Herald

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/9147915/Fire-engulfs-NSW-homes-threatens-others

    You can only wonder if it will be politically feasible for Tony Abbot to be able to deliver on his promise to the fossil fuel industry to scrap the carbon tax, when the cost of fighting these fires and dealing with the aftermath continues to grow. Axing the carbon tax will remove $billions from the government’s accounts, can it be politically tenable for the industry responsible to pay nothing?

    The population of Australia may have reason to regret electing a climate change denier as Premier.

  2. geoff 4

    Campbell Live did a really good piece on the fish dumping last night.
    http://www.3news.co.nz/An-investigation-into-fish-dumping/tabid/817/articleID/312670/Default.aspx

    As was pointed out during the piece, some of the biggest players in the industry, ie Sanfords, fund the National Party, and it is they who are benefiting the most from the stupid quota system.

    As per usual, John Key and National only act on behalf of wealthy vested interests, actual ordinary people can go hang.

    • Greywarbler 4.1

      Unfortunately the dynamics of the fish quota system resulted in smaller fishing interests selling their portion to the bigger ones. It should have been a lease system that had to be re-allocated fairly every now and then. The whole thing needs to be reorganised. I get the feeling that business has captured the agencies.

    • bad12 4.2

      Indeed something need be ‘done’ about the quota management system, something along the lines of carrot and stick perhaps, where commercial fishers who dump fish immediately lose everything and get to sit in a cold jail cell for a period so as to have time to consider their crimes,

      On the other hand the system must be arranged so as to allow the whole catch to be landed without overt penalty and this may possibly allow for the by-catch to be written off of the other quota that a fishing entity holds,

      The problem there i would envisage would be fishers deliberately targeting the more lucrative fish to write off against their quota,

      The system needs to be far more flexible where if in a year too much of the total catch is centered on the more lucrative fish then overall quota for those fishing commercially would have to be lowered as a deterrent…

    • northshoreguynz 4.3

      Isn’t Jones in the pocket of one of the fishing companies?

  3. And for those of you who still think that we have a democracy and that Cunliffe is going to make a flying fuck of difference if he ever makes it to Prime Minister here is a hint of why he is not.

    9/11 changed the world for good. It was the day the global coup took place and yes that includes the government of NZ. Watch this 5 hour new film from film director Massimo Mazzuccoto learn more on what took place on the day and why it should matter to you today.

    • yeshe 5.1

      clicked thru to bookmark it for a later five hours viewing, but could find no film link on the website ? thx travellerev

    • weka 5.2

      The wetiko virus is like a parasite that literally feeds off, takes over and aberrates the curren(t)cy of the infected system. The wetiko pathogen originally manifests as a disturbance in the field of the collective unconscious of humanity itself, creating the psychic ley lines upon which world events are erected and energized.

      So how do I know you are not part of the wetiko yourself? When you say Cunliffe having more power won’t make any difference, I find both your motives and your awareness of reality suspect.

      • travellerev 5.2.1

        😆 If you want to believe Cunliffe can make a difference be my guest.

        We are all infected with the Wetiko virus but like a with a cold sore how able is our immune system to resist!

        I personally think that unless we all become aware of our own personal Wetiko infection and cast the damn virus out no individual (high powered politician or not) can make a damn bit of a difference.

        But I find it thoroughly uplifting to find the name and the concept back on this blog. Especially since I was the first one to introduce it here! It gives me hope! Let’s name the Wetiko. It’s part of the disinfection process. Let there be light on this evil and let’s eradicate it!

  4. karol 6

    First up on Nine-to-Noon, RNZ after 10am news, 3 Labour leadership candidates.

    • bad12 6.1

      Note to David Cunliffe, when using ‘attack’ lines on Slippery the Prime Minister don’t use the ‘yelly voice’, it comes across as ‘strident’,

      Cunliffe should use His more gutteral speech, it ‘connects’ and comes across far better, think ‘deep voice’ Mr Cunliffe let the microphone do the amplification…

    • Treetop 6.2

      Thursday 12 September from 9am, Cunliffe, Jones and Robertson will be on Radio Live with Plunket for three hours. Not sure if an hour each or all on together.

  5. bad12 7

    Does raising the minimum wage lead to higher unemployment, another in my little series of those who say emphatically NO,

    Of interest is the fact that very little weight is given by economists to the spending power produced by raising the minimum wage where those suffering in the low waged economy have little choice but to spend their gains from having the minimum wage raised into their local economy,

    Of course once the money trail is followed it simply leads back to the very people doing the paying recouping the raised amount of money in the economy as profit from the extra being spent, i am starting to form the impression as i dig out these various links, that opposition to raising the minimum wage has as much to do with politics as it does with economics,

    http://www.simontaylorblog.com/…/why-raising-the-minimum-wage-will-...

    One of those posting comments in this blog does allude to the extra spending/extra profits in the economy from raising the minimum wage using Mcdonalds as an example…

    • Rosie 7.1

      “i am starting to form the impression as i dig out these various links, that opposition to raising the minimum wage has as much to do with politics as it does with economics”,

      That would make sense bad12. The argument that an increased minimum wage leads to higher unemployment seem counter to the ideals of business in the sense that successful profitable trade relies upon customers with money to make that goal happen.

      So, why the resistance? Is is the thought of people becoming more financially comfortable and actually making ends meet at the end of the pay week that freaks out those that support low wages? Does that make them somehow a little bit closer to being more equal to the business classes? Does that little bit more financial empowerment in the working masses somehow threaten the power dynamic and could that be at the core of the resistance rather than any logical economic argument?

      Geez, imagine the freeing up of household cash if GST were removed, and replaced with the Robin Hood tax. Shops would open up instead of close down, money would flow instead of being constipated. Everyone would be happy would they not?

      • Rosie 7.1.1

        PS, in addition to that, and its probably already been said before, but who profits from a low income society? The Banks do. Our debt supports them and contributes to their record profits at a time when so many can’t cope financially.

        • Colonial Viper 7.1.1.1

          Correct. The corporate sector, instead of paying out monies to workers in adequate wages, instead LEND that some money to workers to cover for their inadequate pay, and CHARGE interest on the sums.

          It’s brilliant, really.

          • aerobubble 7.1.1.1.1

            Yes, then to lock in their wealth cropper machine they introduce a flat tax that insures everyone who should be paying more than 40% of tax (its call progressive taxation not cutoff for the richest progressive taxation), and the super wealthy are laughing.

    • Molly 7.2

      Posting this TED talk on the Standard may be the blog equivalent of teaching your grandmother to suck eggs (BTW ?!?), but as bad12 is still trying to educate those who say NO – here is an “idea worth spreading”…Nick Hanaeuer: Why Rich People Don’t Create Jobs

      • bad12 7.2.1

        Molly, good link, and intelligent intuitive comments from a seriously rich and seriously intelligent Nick Hanauer,

        http://www.en.wikipedia.org/nick_hanauer

        i had to LOLZ at the fact that He put the organization which He was speaking to’s nose so far out of joint that they initially wouldn’t allow the Vid to go on-line and were then forced to relent because of public pressure,

        He is of course right, the obvious point is that if you want an economy to fully function you have to throw monies into the bottom of that economy which then ‘lo and behold’ immediately tracks upward in that economy,

        There’s another point that He probably knows but did not address, and that is that people like Nick Hanauer will always make money no matter what economic conditions they operate in, of course the harder it is for the Nick Hanauer’s of the world to gather together the wealth they seem hard-wired to seek, the harder they will work in their efforts to gain that wealth,

        Raising taxes on such wealth simply leads the wealthy to work harder and by that i mean employ more people to produce the goods and services which create for them that wealth,

        Once i have finished with my little series on the minimum wage i will do some more digging and address the very question of taxation that Nick Hanauer so ably addresses in that link….

    • Tracey 7.3

      opponents see their laziest method of divrting more wealth to themselves slipping away so they squeal.

  6. fender 8

    David Cunliffe just said on RNZ that ” ….John Key is funnier than I am….”

    Sorry David but that is one statement I can NOT agree with. Key is a total f***wit who has never made me laugh, though there have been many occasions where I have laughed AT him for some ridiculous dribble more commonly heard around closing time at the pub by some intoxicated fool.

    • bad12 8.1

      Slippery the Prime Minister is intoxicated, on His own ego, prick said ego and He comes across as a simpering child…

    • BLiP 8.2

      . . . there have been many occasions where I have laughed AT him . . .

      Who can forget his Rugby World Cup performance, for instance. Actually, there were was that other hilarious Rugby World Cup performance to savour.

    • Rosie 8.3

      Hi fender. I didn’t hear the statement but I’m wondering was Cunliffe meaning exactly what you say, that you can laugh AT Key, at his expense, rather than the fact that he’s a humourous guy? (Which he clearly isn’t)

      Saw a book of Keyisms in a book store the other day.While it wasn’t as funny as my copy of “Bad President”, a book of Bushisms, it was poking fun at Key’s gaffe’s over the years, and is worthy of a good guffaw.

    • felix 8.4

      “Sorry David but that is one statement I can NOT agree with. “

      Me neither, but apparently plenty of other people find him amusing. Which makes humour one of his strengths, which is why Cunliffe is minimising it.

  7. Ennui 9

    Headlines on TheStandard today Cunliffe shows leadership steeland Reviewing the media coverage of the leadership campaign…..put into perspective by a walk yesterday along Lambton Quay.

    As I strolled to a meeting, well fed, well clothed, money card in pocket I passed 6 individuals each holding a cardboard card. The cards all told tales of woe, and asked for a donation to help alleviate the suffering. I had no cash on me, and feel as guilty as sin that I offered nothing: note to self, have a few dollars cash when heading that way.

    This is the face of NZ after the Clark and Key years, welfare nets and employment so denuded that we see the face directly on the streets. If you look into the eyes of these people there is something missing that is deeply disturbing: hope. Hope in something better.

    So to the media: why would we expect them to cover a leadership race properly when they are incapable of even highlighting the state of the nation? When have they ever reported it as it is? They must be wandering blind along Lambton Quay or any other city in NZ.

    To Cunliffe and steel: if you win David you will need it. It will take a lot of steel to force “comfortable” NZ into trading some discomfort so that the people with no hope in their eyes actually begin to see hope. It will take more steel to deliver a future that encompasses all those currently passed by. And that is what is at stake in this race.

    Good luck: to the rest of us when walking keep some change free. “Buddy can you spare me a dime”?

    • lprent 9.1

      I have the same issue at three lamps, the only shopping area I walk through on a daily basis when I’m hunting lunch if I forget to take it. Also the charities. But alas cash and myself have long departed each other. The floor and under the bed usually owns it.

      • Colonial Viper 9.1.1

        I recommend to everyone to keep a few $1 and $2 coins on them for just this purpose.

        • Draco T Bastard 9.1.1.1

          I recommend that everybody vote for a party that will change the purpose of the economy from profit to providing for everybody.

          • aerobubble 9.1.1.1.1

            Well that rules out Labour. The great wealth from the arrival of cheap high density arabian oil caused a radical shift in the politics of western nations who throttled the money into leveraging while promising to only allow a trickle of it to get to the masses. Now that the GFC has washed over us for the last 6-7 years, we can see what’s happening, the profits must be kept up no matter what, who ends up begging, what services are cut. They built the bridge to gather up the huge energy burst of the last thirty and now they don’t want to demolish it. Labour aren’t about to do anything serious.

            Just as thirty years ago we should have gone to Mars, built sustainability, demanded ever increasing demands on produces for recyclable and/or longer lasting products… sorry. recyclable is the wrong word since it implicitly means valueless and in fact any true close system would intrinsically not have any waste. Food scraps used to be fed to the chickens and pigs, now they are waste. Metal would be picked up by a rag and bone man. Everything got used and had a value. Nowadays the idea that waste shouldn’t be ut in the ground, is only matched by the absurdity of very low paid people shifting through it for the odd recyclable.

            We live in the 21st and have a parasitical view of the planet.

    • @ ennui..+ 1..

      ..the ignoring of the plights of the poorest..(by most of our fourth estate..)

      ..is clear evidence of an epic-fail on their part..

      ..i think that for them..(and as for most ‘doing ok’..’the winners’ from this toxic/poor-bashing/ayn-rand-based-ideology..)

      ..i think that they..and those they associate with..they just don’t give a fuck..eh..?

      ..they are doing ok..so fuck everyone else..

      ..and of course..the poor aren’t ‘cool’..eh..?

      ..and could someone explain why/how our journalism-schools turn out these ‘journalists’..

      ..’journalists’ who seem to view any semblance of ‘crusading’/speaking-truth-to-power..(what they should be fucken doing..)

      ..as a no-go area..

      …most of them are just chimps..chattering along/finger-pointing/nose-picking/arse-scratching..on the sidelines of the circus..

      ..and aren’t worth a journalists’ arse-hole..

      phillip ure..

      • phillip ure 9.2.1

        and of course there is one thing you can guarantee..

        ..that is that when the govt changes..these ‘journalists’ who have spent the last five years grovelling at keys’ feet..

        ..that they will..(under the instructions from their editors/corporate-owners..)..they will suddenly find that they are able ‘to speak ‘truth’ to power’…

        ..as this corporate media goes to war with this new progressive government..

        ..as these journalists..bending the knee to the behest of their masters/mistresses..

        ..try to ensure this new progressive govt..is just a one term govt..

        ..so what is very very clear..is that up to and after that progressive-change..

        ..that the online progressive-media work more together..

        ..that they celebrate the efforts of others marching in the same direction..

        ..and not snipe/diss/ignore/compete with each other..

        ..and this if only for just the reason that they will be all that will stand against what will be a concerted corporate media-blitz against that govt..and all they do/propose..

        ..and this from day one..

        ..can anyone not see this..?

        ..phillip ure..

      • Ennui 9.2.2

        Thanks Phil, yes most jornos are culturally, historically and politically illiterate: the ones I know have as much knowledge as a common guppy…sweet fa.

        Having said that if you are being told what to say, and paid to do so……

    • just saying 9.3

      Well said.
      Steel indeed.

    • Rosie 9.4

      Ennui, I hadn’t spent time in the CBD for a while until I had a 2 month work contract based at the eastern end of town. I was shocked to see so many people begging. I’d never seen so many before. These people are the legacy of policy that fails them and fails society. That thought made me feel angry as well as sad. What is worse is that our council further maginalised these people by their stupid authoritarian “alternate giving campaign” which turns out to be a complete failure as well:

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/9056882/Beggars-miss-out-in-costly-campaign

      I heard that Auckland is also trying to ban begging. It seems that our civic authorities are uncomfortable with the true face of poverty and despair and it would be nicer if it were brushed under the carpet, away from the small handful of retailers who complained about them.

      IF Cunliffe wins and IF we have a change of government and IF they do undertake the tasks they are saying they will, those newly in charge will need to take a long deep breath before beginning to tackle the mountain of problems they have inherited

      • Ennui 9.4.1

        Rosie, our councillors in Wellington are in general pillocks. A few exceptions true, but those setting policy including the mayor are so out of touch its unreal. Worse, they have allowed debt to spiral…enough!

        On Cunliffe, we should observe the success of future Labour governments by counting the number of beggars and observing youth unemployment stats.

    • Tracey 9.5

      a friend of mine, who was chair of a charity made the following observation to me when the recession began

      “the high earners close their wallets faster than a trap on a mouse… the low earners continue to give their 10 a week or whatever, whether they can really afford it or not.”

  8. BLiP 10

    Heh! The Labour Party leader-hopefuls think they can talk sensibly about the environment. Gimme a break. Here, boys, have a look at what’s actually needed, starting with a carbon tax, and stop with the banal cliches, puhleeeze.

    • Bill 10.1

      What’s actually needed is way beyond any Social Democratic party that (almost by definition?) operates within a capitalist/market context. Doesn’t prevent some, inadequate as they may be, steps being made in the right direction though, eh?

      • BLiP 10.1.1

        I’m not buying the “its impossible” excuse. The inadequate steps are actually worse than inadequate because they mask reality and provide false assurance that something is being done while all the time momentum builds up. Having said that, I have come to accept that it is most likely going to take a catastrophic event before politicians garner the courage required to speak truth to those they claim to represent and put in place what little and constantly diminishing mitigation steps that can be taken.

        • Bill 10.1.1.1

          It’s not impossible. But it’s an impossible task for social democracy. Or maybe you can explain to me how a social democratic form of governance can take sufficient action on AGW when they all exist to keep the market functioning and it’s the demands of the market that have brought us to this pass?

          • BLiP 10.1.1.1.1

            Lets see what happens when petrol gets to $5 a litre and the climate emits a few more early warnings. Won’t be long.

            • Colonial Viper 10.1.1.1.1.1

              By the time you’ve figured out that your tank is empty 30m under the water, you’re fucked. Like starting running only when you see the tsunami. Fucked.

        • weka 10.1.1.2

          Having said that, I have come to accept that it is most likely going to take a catastrophic event before politicians garner the courage required to speak truth to those they claim to represent and put in place what little and constantly diminishing mitigation steps that can be taken.

          Right. And who would you want in govt when that catastrophic event happens? A govt like we currently have that is intent on stripmining democracy and will most like impose martial law if the shit hits the fan hard, or one that is slowly shifting left again and which has a coalition partner that has been preparing for years?

          And in the meantime, given that many people are doing crucial work preparing for the catastrophic event and its aftermath, do you think their job will be easier under NACT or Labour/GP?

    • weka 10.2

      “Here, boys, have a look at what’s actually needed, starting with a carbon tax, and stop with the banal cliches, puhleeeze.”

      A question BLiP: if Labour announced a carbon tax policy before the next election, what do you think their chances are of forming a govt with the GP?

      • BLiP 10.2.1

        Surely you’re not suggesting Labour adopt National Ltd™ tactics and hide its real intentions so as to lure the swingers into voting for it? Anyhow, such FPP concerns your question implies are irrelevant in an MMP parliament. Also, going on Labour’s past performance, there’s not really that much difference between it and National Ltd™ when it comes to things like social justice, civil liberties, the environment, and economics. While missing out on the baubles of office, it may well suit the Greens, and Aotearoa, if the Greens avoid a formal coalition with either major party. Power and government are not necessarily the same thing.

        • weka 10.2.1.1

          Nice avoidance of answering my question.

          It’s nothing to do with FPP. You are expecting Labour to make a serious policy shift 12 mths out from an election it hopes to win (a win which is desparately needed in this country). You either think that Labour can keep its voters and pick up enough of the missing 800,000 to win, or you don’t care if they win or not.

          If you think there is no appreciable difference between NACT and Labour, you really haven’t been paying attention in the past 5 years.

          • BLiP 10.2.1.1.1

            If you think there is no appreciable difference between NACT and Labour, you really haven’t been paying attention in the past 5 years.

            Correct. While it wasn’t until National Ltd™ tried to split my hapu with its Iwi/Kiwi acid that I actually bothered to engage, I’ve been paying attention for the last 30 years, never mind the last five. While I support, in part, Labour’s actual environmental policy, the platitudinal pap pumped out by the leadership-hopefuls yesterday could easily have come from the office of Amy Adams.

            • Macro 10.2.1.1.1.1

              ” the platitudinal pap pumped out by the leadership-hopefuls yesterday could easily have come from the office of Amy Adams.”
              QFTT

  9. joe90 11

    HRW report on the Ghouta attack.(careful, disturbing images)

    http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/reports/syria_cw0913_web.pdf

  10. yeshe 12

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11123005

    Tariana and Le Coif unite to save the RMA !!! WOW! Thank you ! Think I need a brandy I’m so shocked ….

    “We say the changes to remove emphasis on the ‘maintenance and enhancement of the quality of the environment’ fundamentally rewrite the Act and put a spanner in the works of the legal system, that will take years of litigation to fix up,” they said in a joint statement this morning.

    Mr Dunne said that in the 20 years since the RMA was created, the environment was in a worse state by nearly every measure, and government’s proposals to facilitate development would make matters worse.

    “I do not accept that commercial interests should override the environmental principles of the Resource Management Act.”

    • ianmac 12.1

      A ray of hope yeshe but then like the GCSB gesture it might trickle away into nothing but another gesture. Hope they carry through with their concerns.

      • yeshe 12.1.1

        maybe join me in a brandy, ianmac ??

        • phillip ure 12.1.1.1

          please excuse my black-hearted cynicism..

          ..but for ‘the coiffed one’..this is just another lever to screw some more out of key/this govt..

          ..this is exactly the same game-plan he used over the spooking bill..remember..?

          ..will we really all just ‘get fooled again?’…

          ..the self-interest of this man/charlatan knows no bounds..

          ..phillip ure..

  11. amirite 13

    So Nats, how’s that sale of the century going? Not very well it seems. It’s not like they haven’t been warned:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/9151324/Govt-expected-to-revise-asset-sale-target

  12. Morrissey 14

    Mediocrity Watch: Professor Robert Patman
    The Panel, Radio NZ National, Wednesday 11 September 2013
    Noelle McCarthy, Tino Pereira, Simon Pound

    Anybody who listens regularly to Radio New Zealand will know that it has a small list of commentators it uses to “discuss” questions about “the middle east”. Almost without exception these commentators are right wing, reflexively pro-Israel and uncritically pro-American. These substandard pundits are a grimly uninspired lot, including Liat Collins, Irris Makler, Simon Marks, and the gruesome Professor Steve Hoadley. Unbelievably, though, they are not even the worst: just last week the race-baiting fanatic Daniel Pipes was given a respectful, uninterrupted hearing on Nights.

    Today, long-suffering listeners to The Panel were inflicted with another of these go-to “experts”—Robert Patman, the Professor of International Relations at the Department of Politics at the University of Otago. Unfortunately for Prof. Patman, this grand-sounding job-title fails to cover up the poverty and partiality of his “analysis”. In a comically inept attempt to sum up Russian and U.S. policy towards Syria, Patman told a silent and unquestioning Noelle McCarthy that Hezbollah is “totally a creature of the Iranian regime.” McCarthy failed to challenge that piece of nonsense, and neither did Simon Pound nor Tino Pereira. A minute later, Patman frothed about “the Assad regime, this GANGSTER regime” and sneered that Putin was “a master of bluff.”

    Of course, Professor Patman did not use such prejudicial and incendiary language to describe the regime that has used chemical weapons in Southeast Asia, and which also stood firmly beside its protégé Saddam Hussein after he used chemical weapons against Kurdish civilians in 1988. But of course, if he did have the nerve to speak plainly and honestly, he would never have become the Professor of International Relations at the Department of Politics at the University of Otago.

    • GregJ 14.1

      I don’t think Patman is actually saying anything that controversial about Hizballah though. He may be overstating it slightly but Hizballah’s own original Manifesto (An Open Letter: Hizballah’s Programme) openly acknowledges its links to Iran. The English translation of the first paragraphs:

      “We are often asked: Who are we, the Hizballah, and what is our identity? We are the sons of the umma (Muslim community) – the party of God (Hizb Allah) the vanguard of which was made victorious by God in Iran. There the vanguard succeeded to lay down the bases of a Muslim state which plays a central role in the world. We obey the orders of one leader, wise and just, that of our tutor and faqih (jurist) who fulfills all the necessary conditions: Ruhollah Musawi Khomeini. God save him!”

      The translation of Faqih as “Jurist” is a bit clumsy as there is no real equivalence in English – the Islamic concept is kind of combined expert scholar/warrior(in the Jihadist sense)/religious leader. Faqih also has a special significance in Twelver Shia’ism.

      • Morrissey 14.1.1

        Fair comment, Greg, in that Hezbollah is a Shi’ite party, and there are of course affinities with Iran and the Iranian revolution. However, Hezbollah was and remains a Lebanese organization, formed for the purpose of fighting the Israeli army. When Patman uttered his astonishing claim that it is “totally a creature of the Iranian regime” he was distorting and exaggerating for a purpose: to amplify and reiterate standard U.S. and Israeli propaganda. Patman is either a dutiful liar or unfeasibly ignorant; either way he is not a serious or credible commentator.

        • Te Reo Putake 14.1.1.1

          Formed by whom, Moz?

          • Morrissey 14.1.1.1.1

            It was formed from the Lebanese Shia community (roughly 40 per cent of the population) in 1982. It’s a Lebanese organization, which Patman no doubt knew perfectly well when he uttered his ridiculous statement.

        • GregJ 14.1.1.2

          Certainly fighting Israel was one of its purposes but it’s other purpose was described by Nasrallah as having:

          “two main axis: firstly, a belief in the rule by the just jurisconsult and adherence to Khomeini’s leadership; and secondly, the continued need to struggle against the Israeli enemy.”

          You can’t ignore the religious dimension of Hizballah’s raison d’être however – and its desire for an Islamic Revolution that institutes Velayat-e faqih (Islamic Government with Guardianship by the Faqih or the “Jurist”). Certainly although one of its original goals was the creation of a Lebanese Islamic Republic it always had in mind the wider goals of the Iranian Revolution to create a wider Islamic Shia State. (Although recently it has modified its political stance for a more nuanced approach to be inclusive within the Lebanese Political system). It’s close links to Iran and the Iranian religious leadership are fairly clear though – “creature” perhaps not – very, very close ally – definitely.

          • Morrissey 14.1.1.2.1

            Your points are well made, Greg. Your analysis is more thorough and more honest than anything I have heard on the BBC, ABC or Radio NZ.

  13. Boadicea 15

    “Just about all of the many calls I’ve had in support of Grant have talked mostly about David. ”

    This is a very telling line from Mike Williams writing about how he came around to voting for Cunliffe.

    Grant, you and your crew just can’t help yourselves.

    Next week go away from your normal Wellington milieu for a few days. Do some thinking about why Jones, of all people, gets more public support. That is not a true reflection of your relative decency and prospects.

    You have sold yourself short. You are better than this.

  14. North 16

    “The Vote” TV3 now………Jesus I broke my rule…….here I am watching this shit. On housing affordability and your mesmeric “young couples” first home-buyers.

    Notice the teams – Sam the Sham, Le Bouffant, and (Woody Allen) Botox Banks. Fuck what a team !

    On the other side Winnie, Metiria and Twyford.

    Been trying to get hold of a close mate of mine who’s reasonably close aiga of Sam’s. No answer. Man, that guy (my mate) is just dying to get a hold of his nephew’s ear.

    And isn’t that Garner a Gooner ? Phil Twyford anticipating what Labour will do and the plump, rugby boy, cheapie Gooner triumphantly fires at him – “Will you stake your political career on that ?” Will you, will you……? Studied looks of horror all around by Gooner.

    Faarrk ! What a man in a suit under the lights !!!

    Would loved to have been Twyford and fired back – “Will you stake your career on me being wrong Mr Gooner ?”

    • bad12 16.1

      Yeah i am not one to watch ‘the vote’ either but seeing as it was about housing i tuned in for what was quite entertaining and enlightening on a number of levels besides housing affordability for the children of the middle class where incidentally National are in big big trouble if that audience was a relative cross section of middle class Auckland,

      Small wonder Nick Smith the Minister chose not to show up for what would have shown Him to be as empty a suitcase as Sam the Patsy from National’s back bench they threw to the wolves to be eviscerated, turned out to be,

      It’s interesting to watch a program like that and see Winston working in conjunction with both Labour’s Phil Twyford and the Green’s Metiria Turei and i have to wonder(foolishly perhaps)whether a Government could quite conceivably be formed out of all 3 Party’s,

      Banks, the political corpse of ACT that refuses to go quietly to it’s grave looks every part an expensive piece of Botox awaiting a District Court conviction to put Him out of His misery,

      Wasn’t the ‘Hairdo’ in fine spitting form tho, outright nastiness emanated from Dunne which i suppose is where you have to go when ‘sensible’ just don’t cut the mustard anymore, Wee Petey showed all the venom and lack of grace and judgement of a man who’s very life-blood as a politician is being slowly undermined by a serious underground campaign in the Ohariu electorate to unseat Him…

      • Pasupial 16.1.1

        I couldn’t find the show up yet on the TV3 “The Vote” page. Masupial had seen this ad masquerading as journalism on the 6PM news:

        http://www.3news.co.nz/Metiria-Turei-caught-in-housing-U-turn/tabid/421/articleID/312837/Default.aspx

        “Ms Turei’s now being attacked by all sides of the political spectrum after telling more than 1 million Kiwi homeowners she wants to reduce the value of their biggest asset.”

        Is this at all an accurate description of Turei’s performance?

        [It’s there now – the result appears to be; 72 opposition to 28 government, though it doesn’t mention sample size, or representativeness to voting population. I guess I should endure the swill to see for myself.]

        • bad12 16.1.1.1

          Nah that was a large Strawman constructed by Garner where Garner claims that the Labour/Green housing plan will cause the prices in the Auckland market to collapse,

          Garner is an economic illiterate, building a swag of affordable housing in Auckland is unlikely to effect the market in any way in the short term, in the medium to long term tho if enough houses are built then obviously people wanting to sell what they have bought at the height of the price bubble are going to have trouble selling at those prices,

          My view is that there will be a ‘high end’ market that will maintain it’s current price structure around the current level no matter what and it will be only the short term ‘speculators’ who are likely to be seriously burned as the Government build takes away the ‘demand’,

          My view is that Labour and the Green’s need a set of rules around their housing proposals where those put into the houses government build have to hold the house for 10 years or sell it back to the Government at fair value based upon the price the Government sold it for,

          Doing this would put a stop to these houses being used for speculation and stop the sale of them from acting to collapse the current house prices…

          • Pasupial 16.1.1.1.1

            Thanks bad12. I only got as far as the; meet the teams snippet, and then the “voting” instructions before being distracted by various papers I had been meaning to get onto for weeks. The prospect of an hour show with; Banks, Dunne, Gower & Espiner; making up half the voices just drains me of the will to live. Still – enough procrastination; sooner started, sooner finished!

            • bad12 16.1.1.1.1.1

              Welcome, the point that i don’t quite get across in the comment above is that Labour/Green plans target specifically ‘first home buyers’,

              The rest of the market is still going to be there with people in it constantly wanting to do the ‘upwardly mobile’ thing and buy a bigger/better/flasher place so prices will hardly collapse and if like i suggest the Kiwibuild is restricted from going into the market that’s already there then such can have little bearing on current prices…

  15. Ron 17

    I Seem to have trouble leaving comments on Red-Alert blog. Ordinary comments just seem to disappear. I realise it is moderated but is it now being censored as well?
    And honestly it was not critical of a certain MP from Dunedin South

    • Colonial Viper 17.1

      you take your life into your own hands going on to that blog.

      • Boadicea 17.1.1

        Tooooo true. Mallard is in San Fran so Claire and some of Robertson’s Victoria groupies have their hands on the tiller, the same prats whose rudeness at meetings drove votes to Cunliffe.

  16. North 18

    I’ve voted online and now I’m just waiting for Sunday. Sadly (but gladly in a way) there will be no Warriors competing for my attention. There is significant history to be witnessed here. Pity for Ms Curran she don’t have a clue about that.

    For one of my age it’s quite comforting that I’m pretty sure I voted like Helen has/will.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9153223/Cunliffe-gets-leadership-boost

    Oh Thanks Mike…….that’s a promising independence from – “I agree with Mathew……”

    • Chooky 18.1

      @ North….Matthew possum on nine to noon……also believes Cunliffe will win ….and i think he said, at least on one occasion that he is the best for the job …. however later he undercut this….and gave the reasons why he wasn’t…..( smirk)

  17. Ron 19

    I know that but sometimes I get so annoyed plus I have innumerable email accounts for occasions like that.

  18. xtasy 20

    I am disappointed that the NZ Labour movement pays little or NO attention and respect to what happened in Chile 40 years ago:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMt7gHOtYX8

    Perhaps learn, inform and pay some respect for the over 2000 that were murdered and killed under Pinochet?!

  19. xtasy 21

    Former president and also torture victim Bachelet de Chile visits torture camp, where she was 40 years ago, like thousands others in Chile’s dictatorship under Pinochet. Those that know little or none about this, google, search and learn, about Allende, Pinochet, and what came out of it!

    http://www.elnuevoherald.com/2013/09/10/1563715/chile-bachelet-visita-campo-de.html

    http://ver.bo/index.php/movile-mundo/item/7289-chile-michelle-bachelet-visita-donde-estuvo-detenida-en-el-golpe

  20. xtasy 22

    I am unsure what of the following links will deliver, as we have this all the time, some internet links leading to results or not so. Anyway, I am disillusioned and furious about bias and crap going on in NZ media, where the Labour leading candidate competition has already been rubbished.

    We have as social, internationalist, and caring people a lot more to worry about. There are developments overseas that should remind us of what history tells us, and what we can expect, or rather have to face and answer to. The “left” in NZ has been far too damned kind, liberal and tolerant. We must take a more solid and firm stand, to stand up for what we believe in. We are sadly, by a shit media, they even dare to claim they represent public opinions, who shit on us, who betray anything that is independent, informed and different. We must stand up against a commercialised agenda, a gang, that is commercially controlled, that is owned by corporates, and that do all to corrupt reporting and discredit anything that progressive people say and write. The time has come to take the media, and that is the mainstream media, to account, right now, do not let them continue to corrupt reporting on events in NZ!

    For history lessons see what happened elsewhere, and what they learned from it. I just add a few musical entertainments for reflection here, more can be retrieved by way of true documentaries:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8ZFi0MvGf0

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXRTfOy4EVY

  21. xtasy 23

    There is little hope in any people, who grow up with total commercial media inundation 24/7, who have not even any awareness of being brainwashed, who swallow all, think it is “normal” to be exposed to “choices” between endlessly drummed in “services” and “products”, but who do not even know basics about laws being passed, let alone anything about basic living issues.

    The modern media, the modern machinery of dumbing down inundation ensures that all fall for the lemming like easy going mainstream “cause”, so they all adhere to consistency and ask NONE.

    That is the perfect recipe for future disaster. There is not even any collective spirit, or whatever you call it. The “left” should be extremely alarmed about the state of affairs, but too many seem to now trust in Labour and Cunliffe again. Sorry but you will be very disappointed again, I fear.

  22. xtasy 24

    Young ones, learn from Camilla, please:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_V3p2MPB2UE

    I am damned sure some young Kiwi women can live up to this also!!!

    I am waiting!

  23. xtasy 25

    Solidaridad de Latin America, questo es Presidente the Pinera?

  24. Sable 26

    Crusty old US actor thinks Obama is a good person so it must be true. Yeah right…..

    http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/entertainment/18789300/robert-de-niro-on-barack-obama-hes-a-good-person-period/

    • Morrissey 26.1

      Oh God, how depressing. Poor old Clint Eastwood is not the only Hollywood A-lister to have lost his marbles.

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