Open Mike 11/11/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 11th, 2017 - 83 comments
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83 comments on “Open Mike 11/11/2017”

  1. Carolyn_nth 1

    For now the TPP seems dead – but it my be premature to celebrate too soon. We need to continue to let our government know that there are too many sticking points in the TPPA as we know it.

    It seems that Canada has sought to delay the signing of the TPP because it has other international agreements that it wants to complete first.

    It also seems that Canada and Japan are seen as the dominant parties in the negotiations, as they have the biggest economies of the countries involved. I guess it’s always size, and not some democratic process that decides much of the outcome of such deals.

    See Toronto Star on this

    And CBC News

  2. Ed 2

    Excellent article by Kirsty Johnston about leaving Auckland and the city’s declining number of positives and increasing number of negatives.
    This could and should prompt a thread on the issues facing our largest city.
    Are they insoluble?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11942708

  3. Ed 3

    Interesting article by Bernard Orsman showing how dictatorial AT have become and displaying what a sham their process of consultation is.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11942515

    • savenz 3.1

      Great Link. Basically someone at Auckland Transport seems to get an idea and then it’s pushed through in as lengthy and expensive way as possible by AT.

      Look at the Pohutakawa 6 AT were going to remove. Didn’t happen in the end because of public outrage, but the mistake cost millions, wasted hours of the publics time, legal action and so forth. It was all a lie from AT the Pohutakawas should never have been proposed to be removed. Any normal person could. have seen that (like the parking issue in West Lynn) but someone is profiting from the keystone cop decisions supported by expensive and lengthy papers from IYI (intellectual yet idiots).

      The shops are right, once Harvest goes down with all the chaos and reduced parking (and people have shopping so to carry it on buses or long distances is not that feasible), West Lynn will go down with it and so will all those people’s livelihoods. Thanks AT!

      The other big issue is that is also sounds like the flooding issue has not even been addressed. Too much slope into the shops so that now with the massive levels of oversized construction allowed in the area that discharge into the wastewater rather than being absorbed by gardens spaces, the wastewater will overflow into the shops.

      What a great time to be a private lawyer, so much profit from all the stupid preventable decisions and subsequent consequences…

      Auckland Transport already get about a billion of funding – this is how they spend it, legal action, tree removal, shutting down small business in the community and flooding any remaining shops.

      • The shops are right, once Harvest goes down with all the chaos and reduced parking (and people have shopping so to carry it on buses or long distances is not that feasible), West Lynn will go down with it and so will all those people’s livelihoods. Thanks AT!

        Actually, shopping via PT is eminently feasible. The problem is that people have been trained to always reach for the car rather than better options.

        Although, if our economic system really did bring about the best and most efficient use of resources shopping would be delivered for free.

        And if these shops are going down because of a slight change in road design then we have to ask if they’re actually a viable business. Where are all their customers going to?

    • Stephen Doyle 3.2

      Gotta remember Orsman was a nimby cheerleader during the unitary plan process.
      If you want a more responsible dialogue go here. https://www.greaterauckland.org.nz/

  4. savenz 5

    Funny that, private business don’t really want prices to fall – that’s the problem when so many things in this country about someone’s profit that there’s an uproar whenever a price is bought down.

    Christchurch council’s cheaper carpark prices ruffle feathers

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11942951

  5. savenz 6

    The Japanese PM Abe is now trying to pressure Canada to finalise the agreement whilst they are in Vietnam. Can you please help us in tweeting PM Trudeau, Canadian Trade Minister and the Canadian Foreign Minister.
    @JustinTrudeau @FP_Champagne @cafreeland

    (from Daily blog)

      • bwaghorn 7.1.1

        i cant eat soy or anything with gluten so i’ll be sidestepping the frankin foods

        • Andre 7.1.1.1

          How will you feel about it when you get offered a frankenburger or frankensossie that’s made from animal cells cultured in a vat rather than it being a cunningly engineered and disguised plant product?

          • bwaghorn 7.1.1.1.1

            i would probably leave it for a few years to see if it kills people but if it had nothing that would make me ill i would eat it , it is the future , real meat will be for the rich .

    • weka 7.2

      industrial, highly processed food always becomes a problem. I trust Pollan – “Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.”

      What he means by ‘eat food’ is Like: A little meat won’t kill you, though it’s better approached as a side dish than as a main. And you’re much better off eating whole fresh foods than processed food products. That’s what I mean by the recommendation to eat ”food.”

      I also like the one about eating food that your grandparent’s would recognise (or great grandparents etc depending on how old you are).

      Pollan quote from http://michaelpollan.com/articles-archive/unhappy-meals/

      • marty mars 7.2.1

        I think our approach to eating has to improve as well. Mealtime seems to have been slower and more of a social interaction in the past. Pot lucks are good for that now or general community eating now with the tables on the road approach.

    • Let’s start with its first ingredient by weight: water. Suffice it to say that no quality product uses it as a bulk ingredient.

      And at that point there I almost stopped reading as she obviously doesn’t have the knowledge necessary to make any sort of comment.

      Coconut oil has a trendy ‘superfood’ ring to it, except that here it isn’t raw, so the inherent nutrition of the nut has been heavily compromised by the harsh industrial refining process to which it has been subjected.

      And that bit proved it.

      The only people who are going to listen to that drivel are the people who have even less knowledge.

      • bwaghorn 7.3.1

        ”Konjac and xanthan are industrial hydrocolloid gums. (The latter was designed to thicken the drilling mud in the oil industry.) ”

        what about that bit

        • Andre 7.3.1.1

          You could try googling them.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konjac

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xanthan_gum

          They’ve both got a lot of history in food use. Check the labels on foods like ice cream, salad dressing, anything else that is some sort of emulsion of fats in water.

          Tossing in that bit about being used in drilling operations is a straight up scare tactic that’s totally irrelevant to the issue.

          • Psycho Milt 7.3.1.1.1

            Perfect propaganda: true, but mentioned only for the purposes of provoking a hostile emotional response against the propaganda’s target.

          • One Two 7.3.1.1.2

            Being included in such highly processed, unhealthy and unnatural products, Andre

            You managed to prove the point waghorn was making…

            You’ve stated before that eating, drinking or inhaling chemical laboratory products is no issue for you..

            The position you take is because you believe you understand the ‘science’…

            But you don’t…your comments illustrate it..

            • One Anonymous Bloke 7.3.1.1.2.1

              There isn’t a single thing you eat or drink that won’t kill you if you ingest sufficient quantities. Dosage is key, for food as for anything else.

              With so many new ways to die now (OMGZ! Oxidane!), it’s quite amazing that life expectancy continues to improve the world over. I’d think it a paradox but for the possibility that one of the premises is wrong. Happy days.

              • One Two

                ‘Life expectancy increasing ‘..

                That’s the depth of your response?

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  Not at all, but who wants an exhaustive list of things that are continuing to improve? It’d take too long to scroll past the thing.

                  Life expectancy increasing means that far more people die of cancer, rather than the diseases that used to kill us.

                  Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Who can tell? After all, optimism doesn’t sell advertising.

                  • One Two

                    Increasing…

                    Allergies…
                    Autism …
                    CO2 levels…
                    Debt levels…
                    Diabetes…
                    Environmental degradation..
                    Homelessness…
                    Inequality…
                    Malnutrition…
                    Mental illness…
                    Over medication…
                    Poverty…
                    Suicide rates…
                    War/weapons industry…

                    Etc

                    To your query though..”who can tell”…

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      The only reason you even know about most of those problems is because of science.

                      Without Epidemiology, for example, “inequality” would not be on your list at all.

                      Malnutrition is decreasing globally. Where it’s increasing, I suggest you look to the National Party and eg: Katherine Rich, rather than “science”.

                      Who can tell? Not you, that’s for sure.

                    • One Two []

                      You…are…

                      Lost…

                      The list was not about ‘science’…

                      HINT:

                      Increasing….

                    • Autism rates are up, but is it really on the rise?
                      Answer: Probably not.

                      CO2 levels…
                      Debt levels…
                      Environmental degradation..
                      Homelessness…
                      Inequality…
                      Poverty…
                      War/weapons industry…

                      All as a result of capitalism.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      @One Two: Hint: decreasing, increasing; your list was implicit in my very first remark. Your arrogant patronising drivel blinds you to the message.

                      Yes, I know you don’t get it. Perhaps you should learn to actually read what people are saying for a change.

              • With so many new ways to die now (OMGZ! Oxidane!), it’s quite amazing that life expectancy continues to improve the world over.

                It’s decreasing in the US.

            • Andre 7.3.1.1.2.2

              “Good health unfolds through total acceptance of reality”

        • Draco T Bastard 7.3.1.2

          Just scaremongering which seems to be about all that article is about. It’s unscientific BS.

          • One Two 7.3.1.2.1

            While the article is poorly written, and ill informed as you point out, earlier…

            It’s not meant to be ‘scientific’, nor should it need to be written as such..

            That said…monsanto pay ‘scientists’ and ‘journalists’, as well as owning journals to publish in…

            ‘Science’…

            Nah…it’s not!

            • Draco T Bastard 7.3.1.2.1.1

              It’s not meant to be ‘scientific’, nor should it need to be written as such..

              But it should be written to inform with all the information in it backed by science. This clearly is not the case.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 7.3.1.2.1.2

              The article doesn’t mention Monsanto once.

              Cellular agriculture seems fairly “sciency” to me though. Just like traditional agriculture. Knowing when to plant what doesn’t just happen by your special woo, eh.

    • Any vegetarians who want food tech companies to make fake meat for them out of vegetables should reconsider whether vegetarianism’s for them.

      • Andre 7.4.1

        I dunno about that. I’m not a veggo and I’m not about to become one while it means giving up some smells and tastes and textures I really enjoy. Plus I’m not ready to make the effort to ensure I’m getting all the nutrients I need from a pure plant diet, when a bit of meat and dairy on a regular basis means I don’t have to worry about it.

        But I know a few veggos that have made that sacrifice and commitment, and miss the animal based parts of their eating. They’d be quite happy for non-animal substitutes to become available so they could enjoy them again. If it looks and smells and tastes like a real beef burger but it’s basically a flavoured falafel, they’d be all over it. As would I.

        And if they can engineer up something that has the smell and taste and crispy mouthfeel of bacon …

  6. KJT 8

    Meanwhile. From the Horizon poll results.

    The only people not happy about the new Government, are corporate ladder climbers and land speculators.

    Entrepreneurs, small business, professionals and workers are mainly optimistic.

    • cleangreen 8.1

      Yes KJT;

      It was a positve poll for the new Labour/NZF Government but I wonder are the media all going to cover this poll?

      https://horizonpoll.co.nz/page/489/whos-going-?gtid=3831264570538CNT

      Who’s going on honeymoon with the new Government
      9 Nov 17
      Credit: TVNZ

      More confident than not they’ll be better off under new government
      Nearly twice as many New Zealanders are feeling positive rather than negative about the effect the new Labour-led government will have on them personally.

      A Horizon Research survey of 1,068 adults nationwide between October 24 and November 1, 2017, finds overall that

      49% say the new government will positively affect them personally in the next three years
      24% say it will affect them negatively
      28% say the affect will be neither positive nor negative.
      The numbers do not vary by gender.

    • OnceWasTim 8.2

      Yep! I managed to convince a number of small business owners and professionals that the previous gubbamint wasn’t really their bess fren and that they were more concerned about the largesse of their corporate friends. Even the local dairy owner is rapt with the change.
      I’ve never been much of a fan about the term ‘entrepreneur’. It’s what small Bizzniss always used to do – be it the natural entrepreneurial Indian starting the corner store and continuing it on to become a chain that’s not going to be sold off to an offshore interest; or the Chinese Laundry whose owner/operators were happy enough to provide a decent living for family and friends,. It’s becoming as tedious as people claiming ‘passion’ (more often ‘pearshun’) about what they do.
      The language of the neo-liberal

      • One Anonymous Bloke 8.2.1

        Pearshun isn’t enough though, as they have begun to realise after nine long years. And community is everything. It can even sustain business.

    • tracey 8.3

      If it headlines it will have a Big business confidence drops…

  7. joe90 9

    Now, if you don’t mind I’m going to schadenfreude TF out of this.

    For months, lawsuits have piled up against James O’Keefe, the conservative filmmaker and provocateur, from various targets of his signature undercover videos.

    But O’Keefe and his video site Project Veritas have taken some legal action of their own recently — against the insurance company that they claim violated a contractual obligation to pay for mushrooming legal bills.

    Now Project Veritas is engaged in a battle with the company it hoped would protect it, a dispute that lays bare the stark challenges faced by O’Keefe for the kind of controversial, litigation-prone hidden camera stings that have made him both a scourge and a conservative media darling.

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/stevenperlberg/james-okeefe-is-fighting-his-insurance-company?utm_term=.khO555LkKe#.wfMeeeaPKB

  8. cleangreen 10

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018621303

    Radio NZ News flash 3pm 11/11/17.

    Start;

    The 11 nations involved have reconvened today to try to salvage the deal and have agreed to most of the deal but four provisions that have been ‘suspended’, the new agreement has been renamed “The comprehensive progressive pacific partnership agreement”.

    End.

  9. ianmac 11

    On Stuff there is a brilliant set of pictures and video clip and commentary on the Highway rebuild and Kaikoura. Be the best online presentation that I have ever seen. Scroll down to see the best. A big screen would be good

    https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/2017/11/the-road/

  10. cleangreen 12

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/98790099/transpacific-partnership-11-trade-ministers-reach-deal-to-keep-deal-alive

    Trans-Pacific Partnership: 11 trade ministers reach deal to keep deal alive
    VERNON SMALL
    Last updated 14:50, November 11 2017
    Crisis talks among Trans Pacific Partnership ministers appear to have pulled the free trade pact back from the brink of collapse, although it still faces an uncertain future.

    Late on Friday Canada boycotted a meeting of leaders from the 11 nations involved, throwing the deal into disarray.

    But after trade ministers met, with Canada back at the table, New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern told reporters on Saturday that though “clarification” was still needed it was sill alive.

    She had the impression Canada was back on board: “We are in a more stable place than we were yesterday.”

    But she was still not clear why Canada had not shown at the leaders’ meeting.

    Trade Minister David Parker, who was part of the crisis meeting, said the text had been “stabilised” so there was a legal agreement about “just about all of it. The ‘just about’ could be important”.

    He said there were four provisions of the original TPP that were suspended and work needed to be done on those.

    The name of the agreement has also been changed from TPP to CPTPP – the comprehensive progressive TPP.

    Parker said it was the most comprehensive agreement when it came to labour laws, environmental standards and the right to regulate that there had ever been in a trade agreement.

    That included enforcement mechanisms that can in the end result in trade sanctions if parties breach those standards.

    Parker said on contentious investor-state dispute resolution clauses, New Zealand had tried to get rid of them completely but was unsuccessful.

    “We narrowed the scope of them and we have a side arrangement with Australia which means that 80 per cent of the foreign direct investment into New Zealand from TPP countries is not covered by ISDS clauses at all.”

    There were “a number of other bilateral arrangements in place” on ISDS that he could not yet talk about.

    “We have made substantial progress on ISDS clauses in just a matter of weeks.”

    Ardern said the CPTPP was a different one than the TPP before the United States withdrew.

    She added it was disappointing the Government only had two week to change what National could have tried to achieve had it negotiated differently.

    Parker said the suggestion Canada had problems was because Labour standards were not resolved was not right.

    That implied wrongly that New Zealand was not standing up and was not successful on labour standards.

    There was no plan at this stage for the CPTPP leaders to meet again at Apec.

    TPP opponent Auckland University law professor Jane Kelsey said she was “disappointed, but not surprised” the Labour government had endorsed the TPP, with the suspension of a limited range of items.

    The TPP member countries were trying to find a way forward without the US, the biggest economy and, before President Donald Trump took office, one of its most assertive supporters.

    Trump had said he preferred country-to-country deals and was seeking to renegotiate several major trade agreements to, as he said, “put America first.”

    Trump reiterated his markedly different stance on trade before the 21-member Apec summit convened late Friday with a gala banquet.

    The US president told an Apec business conference that “we are not going to let the United States be taken advantage of anymore.”

    He lambasted the World Trade Organisation and other trade forums as unfair to the United States and reiterated his preference for bilateral trade deals, saying “I am always going to put America first.”

    Trump said he would not enter into large trade agreements, alluding to US involvement in the North American Free Trade Agreement and the TPP.

    In contrast, Chinese President Xi Jinping told the same group that nations need to stay committed to economic openness or risk being left behind.

    The Chinese president drew loud applause when he urged support for the “multilateral trading regime” and progress toward a free-trade zone in the Asia-Pacific.

    China was not part of the TPP.

    Apec operated by consensus and customarily issued non-binding statements. TPP commitments would eventually be ratified and enforced by its members.

    But even talks this week on a declaration to cap the Apec summit had to be extended for an extra half day as ministers haggled over wording.

    It’s unclear what the exact sticking points were, but officials have alluded to differences over the unequal impact more open trade has had on workers and concerns over automation in manufacturing that could leave many millions in a wide array of industries with no work to do.

    As a developing country with a fast-growing export sector, this year’s host country, Vietnam, has a strong interest in open trade and access for its exports to consumers in the West.

    The summit is an occasion for its leaders to showcase the progress its economy has made thanks largely to foreign investment and trade.

    Da Nang, Vietnam’s third-largest city, is in the midst of a construction boom as dozens of resorts and smaller hotels pop up along its scenic coastline.

    Apec’s members are New Zealand, Australia, Brunei, Canada, Chile, China, Hong Kong, Indonesia, Japan, South Korea, Malaysia, Mexico, Papua New Guinea, Peru, Philippines, Russia, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand, the US and Vietnam.

    – Stuff, with AP

  11. cleangreen 13

    So they have been ‘unsuccessful at getting rid of the investor-state dispute clauses that will control his government, but agreed to it anyway??????
    Is he now saying we need to eat dead rats?? Unbelievable.
    Cant trust them can we.

    quote; “Parker said on contentious investor-state dispute resolution clauses, New Zealand had tried to get rid of them completely but was unsuccessful.”

    • Grey Area 13.1

      “Cant trust them can we.”

      Nope. I felt Labour were always going to let us down over TPP and that’s exactly what’s happening.

      • cleangreen 13.1.1

        Yes Grey Area, She is moving to fast to try and achieve anything she can by the looks of it.

        She is hurting her base here as we will be all hurt if she does not stand up for us as she said “everyone will have a voice and be heard” but our/her people will begin to doubt it if she doesnt speak up for us as Justin Trudeau did his people.

      • srylands 13.1.2

        It is called governing. It was always unthinkable that any New Zealand government would refuse to sign. Trade liberalisation and capital liberalisation and protection of shareholders from vexatious governments. All core New Zealand values that have had bipartisan support for the last 30 years.

        We should all be applauding the new Prime Minister for her efforts. Sadly the communist in charge of Canada had other ideas.

        • McFlock 13.1.2.1

          It’s never unthinkable that a government would rule in the interests of its people.

        • Muttonbird 13.1.2.2

          You people do spout some shit, don’t you? How on earth do you know the details of this deal since none have been made public, ever.

        • Draco T Bastard 13.1.2.3

          Trade liberalisation and capital liberalisation and protection of shareholders from vexatious governments.

          Why should shareholders get protection and not the general populace who need protection from those shareholders?

          EDIT: And I actually thought that you were in favour removing protections.

          EDIT 2: It seems that the only protections you like removing are those on the poor which protect them from the rich

          All core New Zealand values that have had bipartisan support for the last 30 years.

          And before that we had other values like looking after everyone and not just ‘shareholders’.

          It was always unthinkable that any New Zealand government would refuse to sign.

          It’s unthinkable that any government that was doing the best for their people would sign.

  12. Trump judge nominee, 36, who has never tried a case, wins approval of Senate panel

    Brett J. Talley, President Trump’s nominee to be a federal judge in Alabama, has never tried a case, was unanimously rated “not qualified” by the American Bar Assn.’s judicial rating committee, has practiced law for only three years and, as a blogger last year, displayed a degree of partisanship unusual for a judicial nominee, denouncing “Hillary Rotten Clinton” and pledging support for the National Rifle Assn.

    On Thursday, the Senate Judiciary Committee, on a party-line vote, approved him for a lifetime appointment to the federal bench.

    Well, I only hope that the Republican Party of the USA no longer claims to be a meritocracy…

    Yeah, can’t see that happening.

    • Andre 14.1

      Yeah, judicial appointments is one area the Dork from New York is actually achieving something that will have a lasting effect. There’s a shitload of open appointments because McConnell refused to move on filling any vacancies during Obama’s tenure. But whenever the Terracotta Turdface passes along a name the Heritage Foundation puts in front of him, the Repugs fall all over themselves to rubber-stamp it.

  13. One Anonymous Bloke 15

    A very well dressed “nervous” man stalks then mugs a government MP in broad daylight, steals her handbag, just after her return from a Parliamentary visit to Bangladesh.

    Police seem baffled, can’t locate the offender. Haven’t even mentioned who the getaway car belongs to.

    Something to keep an eye on.

  14. Sam aka clump 16

    Hi Bill it’s the standards fav apply labeled right wing ninja here. For every one that doesn’t know it’s important for political reasons to identify with a tribe for dogmatic reasons. I’m gana be following up on another topic Bill identified with as harmful to his tribe that is the “Oh Fuck” blog he wrote. If you haven’t seen those exchanges please read it, I did a lot of explaining in the comments section that Bill would preferably not want me to repeat. People who don’t want to read about the truth probably don’t want me to either. If you could, please read those comments be for reading this one. But if you don’t like the truth then probably best you stop reading and keep your opinions to yourself. But if you’re just confused you can still follow along.

    Ok so last time Bill, I’m just going to assume you got bullied in school. And you went MMA styles all over your bully. And let’s say you rule the internet because you’ve got a bit of power to do stuff other internet users can not. And now you’ve got a bunch of followers on social media and then one day a RWNJ comes along and doesn’t agree with your opinion and it triggers you back into your safe place. And you got so triggered you turned into a father figure out of share rage. And as it turned I was curious about you. So a sent you a message via the standard (and I’m a RWNJ, don’t @me about how I’m coming up with this) when a RWNJ messages you on the standard and say hey look, you’re being an ass again. And then you start having like PTSD from when you got bullied at school. and it’s made you freak out with admin speak. You’re popping keys on keyboards to get over it. And you just came to the conclusion you have to moderate to reinforce your safe place so you don’t get bullied again by RWNJ’s. And so a week or so has past since you lost it over climate change and you’ve mastered you admins skills again because that’s all you’ve really done in that time.

    Now you try and attack this RWNJ and this RWNJ is unimpressed because you’re like this angry administrator with a little bit of power over your safe spot and just finesse you with your own hypocrisy or some shit. And then you start getting triggered like oh no it’s coming you know? You felt the beating in your sole like it was reminiscent of those old days at school. And you got triggered like Adam failing to understand finance isn’t always about being a RWNJ. Only this one is a much more controlled version because you’re a super moderator or something, and your a lot more used to it. So your able to go into moderator mode to maximise your opinion over every one, just with a lot of strain.

    Now this apply labeled RWNJ just raises an eyebrow because he’s unimpressed and just whips your ass again. As a moderator the lvl of your opinion, Bill, really only increased by a couple questions. That’s what your opinion says. They are really only questions. So you being a moderator really only raises more questions. So basically you wouldn’t really be any different to a baby. Or just a heavily amped moderator version asking why all the time. So you’d bee like multi but buster, maybe small ball buster. And you’d honestly maybe, like maybe at this point be hitting the roof at the speed of light. I say this because Realogix seems to have the ability to moderate other moderators. When he moderated Tracy he was like get back to the point of discussing my safe place, or something like that. And you can go have a look at it some where around here, was about being abused. And then they all like went the speed of light.

    Um so with you’re moderating skills being like doubling the amount of questions asked so you’d probably be around the speed of light by this point. And you’d be able to destroy like numerous butts and maybe like some one with smaller balls than me. How ever this RWNJ TS authors and commentators saw fit to label as asks only like one question every now and then just whooping charlatan educator who don’t seem to know much and has many, many questions lined up.

    And now you have an epiphany because you’re so weak having to really on your moderating skills to get your opinion spread all over your safe place. Because you can’t handle any criticism. But it’s time to use your amazing moderating skills to your advantage right. You use them to plot to your advantage. You’ve looked deep inside yourself and searched for all of the plot armour that you can. And you find it. You find a third question as moderator. And after your ranted about how debating isn’t fair. This RWNJ is very patient because he just doesn’t care, he’s just waiting for you to transform into the ultimate TS author. I don’t know why I’m so patient, may be I’m just curious. Just waiting for you to transform into the ultimate TS author.

    So now your probably hitting insane levels of speed. Because a RWNJ just doesn’t have any questions to ask. Just some opinions he holds about certain issues concerning the well being and prospects of future generations and it turns out that the this RWNJ is actually debating, not an MMA level author with plot armour. But actually debating, and then this thing every one likes to calla RWNJ is actually just finessing something that resembles pre pubescent pre madonnas. So the RWNJ puts a grin on his face and rants about how can do that to.

    Now what are you going to do Bill. And there is only one thing left for you to do. And that’s more PLOT ARMOUR.

    Now this brings me to my point. New Zealanders are in an almost impossible position, surrounded by vast oceans and opinions in between our major trading partners. Now we have to make a living around changing trade rulz that are determined to cut off Chinese expansion because American hegemony can only compete with militarily. New Zealand either makes ourselves unusual or face economic ruin. Deciding how to differentiate ourselves means setting out to create a first world oasis on an island in the middle of the Southern Ocean. So we have to create a base for all development. To do that New Zealand must have good infrastructure which isn’t difficult to do. What is more difficult is to have people behave like a first world people.

    When you move people from a technologically scarce society with barley a ship to her name to a first world trading nation with ships of our own getting them to stop brining old philosophies out with them prevents or promotes all this. But we must succeed in progressing education, entertainment, leadership. The kids need to behave in a first world way. By stop behaving in a hap hazard way. Or they will face ruin. The children must give us tremendous motivation to try and deliver on improvements to the prospects of future generations.

    The most difficult thing to do is to carry out industrialisation of services needed to carry out growth in the middle of the Southern Ocean. Because once you pollute the land then you destroy it, and destroy the living conditions. And when you destroy the living conditions then it’s not worth having this place. So every project that New Zealand puts up, the first concern must be anti-pollution. And the economics of it is a huge price to pay, there is an enormous row. Interested parties are trying to bargain with our future prospects. But our future prospects does not have the philosophical integrity to recognise the position New Zealand is in was once a position held during the lead up to WW2.

    Now we must a convince every one of the merits of continuing the policies that our Grandfathers fought for. So carful attention to the environment at the same time looking to industry, growth and population challenges for away out is how New Zealanders will achieve there potential.

    Any way guys catcha later. Let me know if you want another one. I don’t know if I should do the next one. Because of the triggers involved. Because the things TS authors can’t mention are a little controversial. Just have to maintain the magnificence of the authors opinion and place a protection around it. It’s a little bit hard to talk about it. But if you want to see more let me know.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • Bill 16.1

      Almost impressed that you hesitated long enough to get the full stops in there.

      Kinda wish I’d observed all that as a verbal rant mind, because I reckon it would have been quite entertaining – a bit of frothing, a tad of eye bulging and general limb flailing.

      Good, though pretty mindless “flow of consciousness” stuff there Sam – very good. 🙂

  15. logie97 17

    Brian Edwards media blog. http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz

    Not sure what has upset erstwhile centre left commentator, and one time aspiring Labour MP but it seems he still cannot quite bring himself to pen an acknowledgement, let alone celebration, of a Labour prime minister … does he still guest on RNZ’s panel?

    • cleangreen 17.1

      Hi Logie,

      I can’t remember if Brian Edwards sits on any panel now as I haven’t sen him for ages, so perhaps this is why he is upset I wonder?

      He was good though.

    • Anne 17.2

      He’s lost his former touch. Perhaps his lifestyle is no longer conducive to maintaining as informed a brief re-political matters that once was the case.

      It could also be that Labour luminaries are no longer seeking his professional advice like they did in the past.

      Edit: I think he might occasionally make an appearance on The Panel but not as frequently as he once did.

    • Janice 17.3

      Last time he was on the panel with Michelle Boag he sounded a bit vague and there was very little of his usual back chat. Perhaps age is catching up with him. Boag has been on again several times since but with someone else. I can’t remember who and I shut off pretty quickly.

  16. Muttonbird 18

    For Christ’s sake, what is wrong with these people? What’s with the pyjamas at these APEC meetings? Someone, anyone, just needs to say no once and we won’t have to look at this shit ever again.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/98788213/jacinda-ardern-justin-trudeau-and-donald-trump-together-at-apec

    • srylands 18.1

      You are being disrespectful. It is a tradition. They have worn the host nominated costume every meeting since 1993.

      • McFlock 18.1.1

        and for the last 25 years, it’s been a bit shit.

        Although this year isn’t as bad as some – ISTR one year where it was sort of palm-leaf prints like Hawaiian shirts. That photo op was blinding…

      • greywarshark 18.1.2

        It all looks a bit like a Mao uniform this year. Quite funny seeing Trump in one. Definitely not pjs. And it stops them trying to outdo each other. No gold braid, no see-through clothes, No exaggeratedly short skirts. (They must could have watched Christine Rankin’s videos.) Women won’t be able to wear bhurkas, though I hope they can wear hijabs if they want, and Sikh men should have the right to their headgear.

        • veutoviper 18.1.2.2

          As srylands said, since 1993 the host country (in this case Vietnam) nominates (decides) the costume – and provides them. The attendees do not provide their own costume.

          This year there seems to have been some choice in colour (blue or cream) and in style for the three women attendees. So men had the choice of blue or cream shirts, and the women also could choose between the shirt or a jacket. Hence most of the men seem to have chosen blue shirts, as did one of the women, and Jacinda and the other woman chose the cream jacket. Sizings would have been prearranged in the lead up to the meetings.

          Incidentally, the cream bone Maori carving hair comb worn by Jacinda with the Jacket was apparently a gift to her from the Pike River families.

          • greywarshark 18.1.2.2.1

            Oh thanks that’s the sort of goss that’s interesting.

            • veutoviper 18.1.2.2.1.1

              One correction – all thee women chose the jacket. The woman (Chile PM?) who I thought chose the blue shirt actually wore a blue jacket, same style as Jacinda’s. All the shirts and jackets were/are silk.

              Did you like the dress that Jacinda wore for her (and Ministers’) swearing in by the Governor-General at Government House?

              My ‘sources’ told me that it is a Kate Sylvester Nadia dress
              https://katesylvester.com/shop/nz/217k524h-10

              According to Clarke, his suit (apparently his only dry one anyway; he has plenty of wetsuits!) was from Hallensteins. Perhaps this one?

              https://www.hallensteins.com/product/n-pv-stretch-baxter-st-jacket?i=8347298&b=8347859&country=NZ&utm_source=google&utm_term=&utm_campaign=NZ+-+Shopping&utm_medium=cpc&utm_content=sCAQn3xv0|pcrid|178120534930|pkw||pmt||pdv|c|pid|8347859&gclid=CjwKCAiA3JrQBRBtEiwAN7cEGj45EWYIC75BPQwxbiiquxWLWGJ_07xycJD9lMAHowYQlqLyxNthnxoCeBYQAvD_BwE

              Probably a recommendation from Jacinda’s DPS bodyguards!

              Sorry, I have a twisted sense of humour. Actually have a lot of time for Clarke as he and his mate/business partner in his fishing show are moving more and more into marine protection, species protection etc etc. Apparently they did some/most of the underwater filming etc for the proposed Niue marine sanctuary covering 40% of the waters around Niue.

              • greywarshark

                Haven’t seen Jacindas dress – haven’t tv. But it’s interesting to see what you can get for $599 made in polyester.

                I notice that the Hallenstein suit seems tight fitting jacket and trousers. There isn’t a relaxed look about the clothes, all straining at the button or across the leg.

                Aren’t men’s suits regimented. And the design seems to have gone across the world as men’s power dressing.

  17. cleangreen 19

    Yes ridiculious eh?

    Perhaps they need to be wearing prison wear?

    Must be a corporate ploy to ‘unform everyone’

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