The dramatic images of Hart Island burials in NYC…it turns out that in a normal year they bury around 2000 people there. The picture suggests something dramatic but it could be BAU.
1.76 million infected and 108,000 deaths…..these figures would probably be double or triple that but for lockdowns….haven't you been listening to the scientists Mr. A?
these figures would probably be double or triple that but for lockdowns
Iceland isn't in lockdown and yet their CFR is about the same as for seasonal flu. Also, you've taken no account of the costs of lockdown. What if the costs outweigh the benefits?
Indeed. I would speculate that Ross is all right with everybody else's parents and grandparents dying so that his business can make a tidy profit this year. After all, he's got his eye on a new boat, or maybe a new Audi.
I would speculate that Ross is all right with everybody else's parents and grandparents dying so that his business can make a tidy profit this year. After all, he's got his eye on a new boat, or maybe a new Audi.
That's just weird and I think you'll find your comment isn't consistent with the terms and conditions of this site. 🙂
I have a nephew that recently finished his doctor training and was doing his first stints in hospitals in France. He has got COVID-19, along with his mother.
My cousin and her husband are doctors in Salt Lake City. Right now they are doing extended shifts, he in emergency, she in respiratory intensive care. They were scheduled to have leave right now for their recent baby, but now have to carefully juggle their extended shifts.
If you are trying to suggest that our government has over-reacted, or that somehow this isn't a genuine global health crisis that justifies the extreme measures being taken, you can FUCK RIGHT OFF.
October 2019, Bill Gates staged "Event 201" to play out the world’s most likely response to a "fictional" global viral outbreak. Millions died.
What a coincidence.
It's kinda funny that I was the first to warn about this virus on this site…and had similar reactions (although fuck off written in bold is new). It's ok. I will leave. Eventually you will see this for what it is – a set up based on deliberately flawed testing.
You didn't warn us A. We already knew and we recognised the seriousness of a pandemic in the making. Apart from acknowledging the situation as we understood it to be back then, we kept our counsel and left it to the scientists – the real scientists that is, and not the pseudo scientists – to keep us informed.
Perhaps Anne you could tell me exactly how one tells if a particular scientist is real or pseudo?
Because up until the last few days the 'real' doctors have been saying that ventilators are the preferred protocol for patients presenting with low oxygen saturation levels. Now, with 80% of ventilated patients dying that protocol is being revised.
That's the problem with Science Anne, it changes and adjusts according to new information and applied research…real life experience…
Last Saturday on RNZ just after the 9 am news Chris Smith a virologist either from the UK or the US had a lot to say on Covid -19 and covered ICU treatment.
A thing called a eco vent is being touted as being better than a ventilator.
Surely you have answered your own question there? Authentic science is that which changes to fit the evidence, whereas pseudo science maintains its claims in the face of evidence.
There are also issues of; falsibility, replicability, Occam's Razor & the Sagan Balance. But the core is that any scientific conclusion is always provisional pending new evidence.
Perhaps Anne you could tell me exactly how one tells if a particular scientist is real or pseudo?
Well, since my former career was in one of the sciences, I think I might be able to tell the difference between a real scientist and a pseudo scientist.
The picture suggests something dramatic but it could be BAU.
Approximately 25,000 Italian people died of the seasonal flu in 2016/17. About 68,000 Italian people died from the season flu between 2013-2017. I must confess I don't recall the headlines about these numbers at the time. I suspect there were none.
Many people are probably unaware that in New Zealand, about 500 people die from the flu each year. If 500 were to die from Covid-19, we'd hear about it ad nauseum.
In Iceland, the CFR is apparently similar to that for flu.
"While the case fatality rate (CFR) of 2019-nCoV, the virus that causes COVID19, remains unknown, recently published figures likely overestimate the true rate. Previous reviews of H1N1, MERS, and SARS highlight the difficulty of early estimation of CFR of novel viruses related to an absence of consensus on defining and measuring incidences and severities of infection….As with other epidemics, the final CFR for COVID-19 will likely be significantly lower than both the currently reported rates, and those announced in the coming weeks."
Approximately 25,000 Italian people died of the seasonal flu in 2016/17.
So, if flu's causing around 12,000 deaths a year in Italy it doesn't matter that 20,000 have died of COVID-19 so far this year despite a complete lock-down of the country and there was really no point to the lock-down or all the fuss about avoiding infection? Good luck selling that idea to anyone who isn't a complete fucking idiot.
I'm not a psychiatrist – I wouldn't attempt to sell ideas to those with a closed mind. I'll leave that to Dr Knut Kittkowski but, like you say, I suspect he's pushing shit uphill.
JOHN: And so, what do you make of the policy that was enacted in the United States and England and most places throughout the world, this policy of containment, shelter-in-place, etc.? What’s your opinion of it?
WITTKOWSKI: Well, what people are trying to do is flatten the curve. I don’t really know why. But, what happens is if you flatten the curve, you also prolong, to widen it, and it takes more time. And I don’t see a good reason for a respiratory disease to stay in the population longer than necessary
JOHN: And what do you say to people who just say, “We just didn’t know about the lethality of this virus and it was the smartest thing to do, to do what we did, and contain everybody, because we just didn’t have the data.”
WITTKOWSKI: We had two other SARS viruses before. Or, coronaviruses. It’s not the first coronavirus that comes out, and it won’t be the last. And for all respiratory diseases, we have the same type of an epidemic. If you leave it alone, it comes for two weeks, it peaks, and it goes for two weeks and it’s gone.
Joking aside, I think PM was wrong in halving the 25,000 number. The Flu season in Italy is winter – it lasts from, say November 2016 through to March 2017. So that is like a summer season here. We would talk about the 2016-17 summer, and that would be just one season, not 2 whole years.
Canute was the subject of story written centuries later. Doubtful that it had any real historical basis (he was Viking king of Norway and England, so you have to assume he did get his feet wet sometimes):
Sick of his warlords proclaiming him as Cnut the Great, and suggesting new places to invade and plunder (rather than consolidating what power he had). Canute ordered his throne to be carried to the seashore and theatrically demanded the tide to stop coming in while being drenched by the rising tide.
He then proclaimed to hisminions that even a King's power had its limits. Then took his crown off and hung it on a crucifix for the rest of his reign. Christian propoganda in other words.
Trawling the Internet for snippets that can be presented as supporting your conspiracy theory might make you feel better but is neither useful nor persuasive for anyone else.
In reality, the COVID-19 death rate will be higher than is being reported, because some people are dying at home rather than hospital and not being tested via autopsy. From your comment yesterday(?) it looks like you're peddling this bullshit as part of a more general anit-vaxxer delusion. In situations like this, anti-vaxxer bullshit is even less welcome than usual.
In reality, the COVID-19 death rate will be higher than is being reported
Unlikely. In Iceland, 50% of those with the virus don't know they have it as they lack any symptoms. The numbers with the virus will be higher than reported which means a lower CFR.
In Italy, only one person aged under 20 has died. Some 95% of deaths are aged 60 and over. Most flu deaths are in the elderly population.
From your comment yesterday(?) it looks like you're peddling this bullshit as part of a more general anit-vaxxer delusion.
Ross you sound like a total sociopath! You are fine with 17, 916 people dying in one country (according to your own numbers current to yesterday), because only one of them was under 20?
Also, due to the health care system being clogged with infectious adults. People user 20 are dying from usually preventable causes. But these are not counted as being directly caused by the Crow's talons:
Ross you sound like a total sociopath! You are fine with 17, 916 people dying in one country (according to your own numbers current to yesterday), because only one of them was under 20?
You may need to read what I wrote again. I think you’ll find that nowhere did I say or imply that I was jumping for joy at people dying. I did say that only one person in Italy in a particular cohort had died from the virus, and of course Dr Kittkowski had made the point that elderly people needed to take precautions.
due to the health care system being clogged with infectious adults. People user 20 are dying from usually preventable causes
That's true although the article you cite states that parents didn't want to inconvenience their local health provider or were concerned their child may, by going to hospital, contract the virus. Similar decision-making may have also occurred during previous flu epidemics. Were the parents aware of the very low risk of contracting and dying from the virus? If they were aware, they may have acted more quickly to get medical treatment.
You are not worth the effort. Even with nothing else to do, trying to convince you of anything is a bigger waste of time than simply staring at the walls as they close in around me.
Perhaps Iceland's cold climate is a mitigating factor. I have heard that people working in Antarctica don't get colds, so perhaps viruses don't fare so well in low temperatures.
Approx 8.40 am this morning on RNZ a virologist (I think) raised that cooler temperatures are not good as Covid-19 stays around longer with moisture. I was not listening that carefully.
The thinking was on the climatic zones,where community transfer is more likely.
Findings: To date, Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19), caused by SARS-CoV-2, has established significant community spread in cities and regions along a narrow east west distribution roughly along the 30-50o N’ corridor at consistently similar weather patterns consisting of average temperatures of 5-11oC, combined with low specific (3-6 g/kg) and absolute humidity (4-7 g/m3). There has been a lack of significant community establishment in expected locations that are based only on population proximity and extensive population interaction through travel.
Interpretation: The distribution of significant community outbreaks along restricted latitude, temperature, and humidity are consistent with the behavior of a seasonal respiratory virus. Additionally, we have proposed a simplified model that shows a zone at increased risk for COVID-19 spread. Using weather modeling, it may be possible to predict the regions most likely to be at higher risk of significant community spread of COVID-19 in the upcoming weeks, allowing for concentration of public health efforts on surveillance and containment.
The energy payment is a wise idea as it will save lives. I know that there are people out there who live in drafty conditions (or worse) and will struggle to pay the power.
The numbers with the virus will be higher than reported which means a lower CFR.
Thank you. Yes, I should have referred to number of deaths, rather than death rate. That's still a lot of people whose lives A airily dismisses, more so when you consider how many would be dying if this "so what it's hardly worse than the flu" fuckwittery were accepted by governments.
In Italy, only one person aged under 20 has died. Some 95% of deaths are aged 60 and over. Most flu deaths are in the elderly population.
Ah, the "useless eaters" argument. That's some ugly, ugly shit you're peddling there, dudebro.
You couldn't be more wrong. Is Dr Kittkowski saying that we should sacrifice the elderly, or that they were going to die anyway? In fact, he seems to be saying the opposite. But he is also saying that lockdown isn't the right approach.
I didn't quote Kittkowski making the "useless eaters" argument, I quoted you making it. It's an implied argument in that the only context in which your statement would make sense is in an argument that, because the disease is fatal mostly for the elderly, who are going to die soon anyway, drastic measures like lock-downs aren't necessary. That's a "useless eaters" argument, ie it's premised on the lives of the elderly not mattering.
Still, I can see this is going to head the same way as your comments on climate change: you make an implied argument, people point out your argument is shit, you respond by claiming you never argued that in the first place, resulting in demands for you to state clearly what you arguing, which you then don't respond to.
Baker said these groups add up to around 500 deaths per year in New Zealand, a figure higher than last year's road toll. This makes influenza one of the biggest infectious disease killers in the country.
Most people who die are over the age of 65, however Baker said Māori and Pacific people were affected at a higher rate at younger ages.
So, with the lock down, the amount of social isolation, and the increase in people getting flu jabs, I would expect the number to be lower than usual.
Also, it's useful to compare that flu death rate, with the projected death rate if we hadn't had early lock down?
The other issue with the flu comparison is that it's comparing two diseases that are broadly similar in infectiousness and CFR, but we have vaccines against the flu variants.
So sure, 500 a year if we had a vaccine for it. One of the outcomes predicted weeks (a lifetime) ago was that covid vaccines come in and the "flu season" becomes the "covid-flu season".
As it is, though, without a lockdown we'd be looking at dozens if not hundreds of dead already.
A figure of 80k deaths is fanciful. Iceland doesn’t have a lockdown. There have been seven deaths there from the virus. Scaremongering isn’t helpful and possibly explains why the parents of some children are reluctant to take their sick kids for medical treatment.
Iceland has had twice the number of deaths as NZ with less than 10% of our population and they have in place the equivalent about our level 3 response…a dispersed population of 300,000 and you may take that chance…personally i think theyve wasted the opportunity that we didnt
80k was the higher end estimate, but also an estimate of the full course of the disease. Comparing it with Iceland's current rate is (and I'm really trying to cast the best possible light on your motivations here) incredibly stupid.
Also, Iceland has 8 dead in a total population of 360k. That would be something like 100 dead in NZ's population.
Additionally, Iceland is only slightly short of a lockdown, banning groups of more than 20. So their intervention isn't quire as extreme, and their results aren't quite as good.
Quibble about 80k as if it were the only estimate ever made, nobody cares. We have but to look at the US and Europe to know lockdown is not an "if" but a when", and we can chose to implement it to avoid as many deaths as possible as soon as community transmission was evident.
Also, Iceland has 8 dead in a total population of 360k. That would be something like 100 dead in NZ's population.
Yes, 100 deaths would be one fifth of those killed by flu each year in NZ, and you've ignored the benefits of no lockdown. Presumably, there are benefits otherwise Iceland wouldn’t have gone down that path.
Quibble about 80k as if it were the only estimate ever made, nobody cares.
I suspect parents frightened to take their sick kids to hospital care. A medical expert on the TV news tonight stated that parents with sick kids shouldn't hesitate to take their sick kids to hospital. That message should've been stated ad nauseum prior to the lockdown coming into effect and throughout its existence. I cannot find that message on the Government's Covid 19 website. Instead its advice includes: "If you have COVID-19, or you’re feeling unwell, it’s critical you stay at home and recover" and "If a child or carer becomes unwell, they must stay at home” Staying at home is the overriding message, terrible advice if you have a child needing urgent medical attention.
That was a hundred deaths in a few weeks, not in a full year.
As for messaging, yes it's a balance between the thousands of dead without that messaging (even if it's not 80,000 dead, it would still leave the flu way behind) and current health issues. But I don't get the impression you care either way.
I note you take the most extreme figure possible. You use it to infer "scaremongering". Its nothing of the sort. Its a mathematical conclusion based on known evidence. There is [ultimately] a chance the virus could kill 80,000 people in NZ if no action was taken to contain the virus.
The individuals – including parents – who are not seeking medical assistance are doing so out of misinformation or ignorance. They are either lacking in cognitive understanding or listening to the wrong people who play on their ignorance.
Unfortunately you can’t legislate against ‘stupid’.
I note you take the most extreme figure possible. You use it to infer "scaremongering". Its nothing of the sort. Its a mathematical conclusion based on known evidence. There is [ultimately] a chance the virus could kill 80,000 people in NZ if no action was taken to contain the virus.
Carolyn mentioned the figure and I responded to her. Yes, 80,000 people could die if various extreme assumptions prove correct and if we ignore what's happening in countries like Iceland. Now that we know what's happening in the real world, I'd expect the modellers to modify their dire predictions.
The model shows what would happen if an outbreak took hold here. In a scenario where we did nothing about it, we found that the New Zealand health system would be swamped ten times over, leading to tens of thousands of deaths.
It will be interesting to look at excess deaths when this is over not just deaths attributed to covid-19. In Italy …
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nembro, in the province of Bergamo, is the town most hard hit in per capita terms by COVID-19. Currently the town has 31 deaths attributed to COVID-19. But when the two authors looked at the total number of deaths registered in the town in January, February and March and compared it to the average for that period in previous years they found the number was dramatically larger. 158 deaths have been registered in the town during that period this year compared to an average of 35 in previous years.
The math is simple: the average of 35 plus the 31 COVID-19 deaths gets you to 66. But the town has recorded almost 100 more deaths on top of that. As the authors say, “The difference is enormous and cannot be a simple statistical deviation.”
Yeah. Those nasal swabs they're sticking way TF up peoples noses? Well, they're swabbing SFA. They're actually inserting 5G RF mind control chips.
Fortunately Q and his QANON patriots are awake to the actions of the deeply deep deep state statists.
But you'll have to wait until Q and his QANON patriot army have finished rescuing all the tunnel tots from the Planet Pizza tunnels, completed the mass arrests of deeply deep deep state statists, reopened GitMo and begun the trials and executions.
So until then, be patient and Q will send out QANON patriot army squads of 5G chip removal experts.
That piece gives most of its time to the authoritarian/democratic, or liberal/illiberal divide, with just a little bit of state capability and trust in government thrown in.
Trust in science and trust in media are almost certainly important factors as well. Here in New Zealand, I have strong doubts our government would have got buy-in for the measures taken if we didn't have trust in the media reports coming out of Italy in particular and trust in the science reports of how it would likely play out here with and without the measures taken.
A longish read, might challenge some here who like their information nibble -sized.
No wonder some of us do not have one iota of faith in the Ministry of Health or the District Health Boards.
NB the quote from a head of a community support provider.
Didn't want to be named for fear of jeopardizing supply of PPE.
This is the shit that many of us in the disability community have been living with for the past two decades.
And yes…the bastards can and do find ways to punish those who rattle the cage.
This I know from personal experience.
Kindness my arse.
A cynical tin foil hat wearer might opine that it would suit the Misery and the DHBs and ACC if a few more of those expensive -to -keep- healthy clients got the Virus and fell off their perches.
Sorry, Alice Tectonite. Can't do that at the moment, to my extreme frustration.
I have been living in a Bus for most of the past six years and interneting has been done from a second hand laptop when wifi is available. No problem copying and pasting links. Now using Samsung phone and a tablet…laptop locked in the Bus in mechanic's yard where it went for major work prior to Lockdown. I am doing my best.
A cleverish person could just google the title and the journalist's name and find the article.
At the end of March, Ashley Bloomfield promised home care workers masks, gloves and gowns to keep them and their clients safe from Covid-19. Almost two weeks later, why are so many still going to work unprotected?
When Katie* gets home from her shift as a home care worker, she takes the handful of flimsy, disposable, surgical masks she's been wearing that day and hangs them on the washing line.
When she goes to work the next day, she reuses them.
Heard the same from a local disability caregiver just last week. Who also said supply of PPE does seem to depend on which agency a person works for. Her friend who works at a resthome says they have plenty of PPE. Made me wonder if they had gone to the media after reading the article, good on them if they did.
But Cinny…according to Uncle Ashley and his Merrie Folk at the Mystery of Health there is no shortage of PPE.
ALSO, and sorry to shout, the guidelines for what kit a carer should be using when working with clients is obviously completely wrong and has be written by a numpty MOH policy wank who has clearly never provided any level on hands on care to another live person.
And when the writer was instructed by the Misery mouthpiece to look at the revised guidelines they ended up back at the original page.
I have been forced down the MOH rabbit hole on way too many occasions over the past two decades on disability issues and this surprises me not at all.
Andrew Hall from the NZST represents largely ACC spinal injured and he's an intelligent and articulate and resourceful person who also happens to live with a spinal injury. If he's come up against brick walls, being both knowledgeable and personally incentivized, small wonder others are struggling.
I do believe it would bother them at the Misery not a jot if the frail elderly and high needs disabled featured large in the death toll. If not from The Virus de Jour but from other seasonal bugs being trucked around by overworked and poorly resourced carers.
looks like a MoH fuck up to me too, all they need to do is broaden their advisory on their website. Chickens coming home to roost time, but of course it's not the managers that are wearing the shit.
It is my personal view that the MOH cannot be trusted to organize a bonk in a brothel.
Despite having access to information from all parties in the process and total authority, they will find it near impossible effect actual physical connection between these parties.
A monumental cockup in all but actuality.
OTOH we could dispense with Hanlon and ascribe it to malice.
What caused me to have grave concerns about Uncle Ashley was the '…no CPR for Covid 19 positive …' message he delivered 19 .40 mins into his Friday 3rd stand up.
Haven't found a retraction from him personally yet.
It is an answer to a question at 20 minutes into the you tube video.
Bloomfield says that the ambulance service is following international best practice, that if it is a confirmed case of C-19, they wouldn't do CPR as it is aerosol based. He also said that ambulances have full PPE gear.
Basically, the advice is to avoid proximity to the patient's breath, cover their mouth & nose with a towel or similar, don't perform CPR through a mask, but use chest compression CPR, and a defibrillator.
To be clear weka, you are not implying that the Mandow has written an article messy with contradictions. You are acknowledging that she has hit the nail exactly square on it's head. 😉
The whole sorry saga is a mess of contradictions and this is described with perfect accuracy in this article.
Googled…" no CPR for Covid 19 positive " and got the Stuff page to the clarification from StJohn which contained a link to the Friday Bloomfield stand up.
Watched until I could give a time…
I am pissed off to the max that I can't do the link thing. I can't even comment here on my Samsung tablet. This is on my phone.
Since it is highly probable that the first responders will not know if the person arresting is infected or not then the Precautionary Principle would apply and they would not risk droplet dispersion by chest pumping….anybody.
Unless they were using the Full Kit.
Then they would just carry on as usual wearing the PPE.
BUT. Uncle Ashley has persisted in the message that health professionals only need PPE if they are up close to Covid 19 positive patients.
At the same time as frontline health professionals have been begging for not only access to, but permission to wear facemasks with all patients.
Because the safest way to prevent transmission is to assume everyone is infected.
It seems to me that Uncle Ashley has been fumbling around like a virgin on his wedding night over the whole facemask issue. I really don't think he has a clue.
If, as he claims, there is not a shortage of PPE in general and facemasks in particular, then why on earth are health workers on the frontline still begging?
"Since it is highly probable that the first responders will not know if the person arresting is infected or not"
His comment was specifically about people that were known to have tested positive for cv.
"BUT. Uncle Ashley has persisted in the message that health professionals only need PPE if they are up close to Covid 19 positive patients."
Isn't CPR close up?
"If, as he claims, there is not a shortage of PPE in general and facemasks in particular, then why on earth are health workers on the frontline still begging?"
You've read the Newsroom piece, I think that explained it. I've put up a post now too, and apparently it was talked about a lot in today's briefing.
The safest and most effective method of avoiding transmission is to assume everyone is infected and act accordingly.
Which means using PPE.
At the very least masks and eye protection.
Gloves are already SOP.
Reusable gowns….under certain circumstances.
Unfortunately, all the while that frontline health workers have been begging for masks,experts with media platforms have been busy with the message that facemasks are largely useless at preventing transmission. That message is now being modified with the proviso that mask wearers need to be properly educated in appropriate use thereof.
Because, like, doctors and nurses and caregivers are just not as smart as the Science Communicator de jour.
My caregivers hadn't been trained /shrug. I've never worn a mask in a situation like this.
I'm glad that yours are, but I wouldn't be relying on that nationally.
I'm not disagreeing with you on the need (although I think there are levels of need, depending on the care needed). I just pointed out that the Newsroom piece appeared to explain the problem: DHBs are working off the MoH online advisory, which is still the old version saying home care workers mostly don't need PPE.
The solution is simple – replace "Uncle Ashley" (Dr Bloomfield) with Aunty McDonald immediately. The Covid-19 pandemic, and all future health concerns, would vanish like so much dust in the wind.
Seriously, the impression I have is that "Uncle Ashley" is doing at least a fair-to-middling job so far. It is, to be sure, a very easy job, that practically anyone could do better, but who among us would want the responsibility?
You really need to listen to disabled people about their experiences of the MoH. That Bloomfield is doing a good job with most of the covid management, doesn't mean there aren't gaps or the he is above criticism. The PPE is serious, no-one is yet listening to what disabled people at home are saying about this. Despite the Newsroom piece today (which the MoH would have known was coming out) the issue didn't come up even once.
Wasn’t suggesting that there aren't gaps in the management of the Covid-19 response, including gaps relating to the disabled.
I’m disappointed that people choose to mock "Uncle Ashley" and others who have the pretty thankless task of leading/fronting the response. Maybe such mockery is constructive, but more likely it's just letting off some steam during lockdown – honestly can't see what other purpose it could serve.
What caused me to have grave concerns about Uncle Ashley was the '…no CPR for Covid 19 positive …' message he delivered 19 .40 mins into his Friday 3rd stand up.
I'm trying to picture the country's emergency response organisations attempting to require their staff to perform CPR on people they know have COVID-19, and no I'm not seeing it. Are you seriously under the impression that Ashley Bloomfield could or should order emergency responders to do that?
It is the fact that unless a test has been done you don't know when or when not a person has been or is infected with Covid, and thus this amounts to a rule where any first responder could refuse to initiate life saving measures irrespective of anything.
So if you have a car accident and need CPR you might not get it. As all of us should be considered as infected, considering that many people are asymptomatic, unless proven otherwise.
And yes, my partner the volly firefighter and his mates are still discussing this on how to actually handle this scenario should it come to pass.
The Bloomfield quote she complained about was specifically about no CPR for people who've tested positive for COVID-19. I don't see what there is to complain about with that instruction.
Situations where it's unknown whether the person has COVID-19 are different. But even there, it may be statistically highly unlikely that the person in trouble has COVID-19, but I can't see how the country can place any expectation on emergency responders that they should take that risk.
i know. But, how do you know someone has it when you get a call out?
Unless you test? How long does a test take?
By the time you tested and received that test result they are dead.
it works in a hospital environment, but not on the road and at home when you call St. John or the local Firebrigade or you have an road accident.
I guess this is why so much energy is spend on people to not go boating, mountain biking etc as simply the risk for accidents is large and then the risk to might not be able to get all of the needed first aid is also large.
If you be an unpaid St. John Volly, would you risk it?
Don't know, as I'll never be put in that situation. Time and events have proven that I'm useless in an emergency. However, I sure as hell would not expect or demand that emergency responders give me CPR during this pandemic without knowing whether I had the disease or not. I don't believe anyone else is entitled to demand that either.
Certainly appears to some blockage in the home carer field…not sure if its a deliberate failing down the chain or a supply issue at the DHB level…what the MoH is saying dosnt appear to changing the reality at the coalface in some instances….could be organisational incompetence at the contracted service provider level of course which is highly possible going on past experience.
Pat. Very possibly there is incompetence at the Contracted Providet level
However I have been astounded by the depths of ignorance displayed by MOH bureaucrats when it comes to the lived reality of high needs disability and what is required to keep those in this group alive.
Much is written in MOH:DSS documents about "enabling good lives' and 'assisting disabled people to reach their goals ', and it all sounds very kind and aspirational.
But try and get most of these policy wonks to acknowledge that for some clients 'life' cannot happen unless an able bodied person with the appropriate skills arrives every morning to provide full assistance with basic shit, shower and shave. And dressing. And transferring into wheelchair. And food preparation and feeding.
All up close and personal stuff which simply cannot be done from a distance of one metre.
And some home based carets do this for a number of clients every day.
Am aware of what carers do as they have been attending my mother for some years as well as my father until recently…the system of using contracted providers has all the typical problems of the model…and the skill level of the staff varies vastly….as with so much of our health system the lack of investment is biting us on the arse big time
But we haven't even had the flu season here yet, and in China surely the flu season preceded the C-19. There is going to be a huge amount of data to analyse to try and make sense of what has and has not happened.
Ironicly as I said to my grown up kids a month ago, it is looking like ( if we get it right ) that more Kiwis will be alive at the end of the four weeks than if the C-19 had never happened. The road toll will be down significantly and maybe also the murder rate as well as workplace deaths., so possibly we will be in credit by 30-40 Kiwis still alive.
But that doesn't mean we should have let the apocalypse run its course, killing off the susceptable as well as hospital, ambulance and all sorts of other helping staff and leaving hundreds of thousands as sick as and 5000 plus of us to die an agonising horrific death the same as New York.
Anybody espousing that mad scenario deserves an injection of this shit to teach them some humility.
Of course if the government and especially a Labour Govt were to do nothing these self same arseholes would be screaming blue murder for the gummint to do something.
Ha! Yes to your last para. As far as the flu killing ppl, I don't think it kills bus drivers or nurses, surgeons etc in the numbers that the UK is seeing right now, every flu season.
we need some lightheaded reading from people who lost their jobs and businesses and who have no idea what they should do when the twelve week wage subsidy ends.
Now that would be interesting. But i am glad to hear that a rich women is having a good time thanks to her favority fabric shop being now an essential service. Maybe she should sew some masks?
If anyone thinks we are near halfway, they are in dreamworld I am 80 and thinking at least 12 weeks level 4/3 I also hope that will happen, kill the virus then worry about any other matters, not many days ago the world were talking how great Singapore was doing, they opened up a little, 1700 in last week 300 yesterday
Believe me I am not whining, I just happy to go along with what all our experts and the WHO, But if you want to discuss whining I could pull out some of your messages over last couple weeks Im happy in my bubble
I think that Singapore has a large number of migrant workers who sleep in dormitories hence the resurgence. Or so the epidemitoligist said this morning.
"kill the virus then worry about any other matters," Agreed Peter. Be disastrous if too early meant starting all over again.
to believe that it will be stomped out with a one off stay at home order is honestly naive.
there is a reason why you only ever get the vaccine fro the last flue and never the current one.
The best we can hope is that we understand how it works and thus be able to reduce mortality rates by treating it appropriatly instead of what we are doing right now which is to throw everything at it hoping that something will work on enough people to make a difference. And the very best we can hope is that some humans will build up immunity – at least to the current strain, that we get testing that is effective, and that maybe maybe a we are able to create vaccines for the different mutations of the virus.
But no matter what we will have to do this on more then one occasion and hopefully by then we can do lockdowns in a more controlled fashion.
Australia and Singapore are the poles that influence the thinking of our public service – who are giving the advice to Cabinet for Monday 20 April.
Existing under Alert Level 3 is going to take a tremendous amount of planning for every company. We've spent the last week just thinking:
– How to separate work areas with separate lunchrooms, toilets, and offices
– Whether any office worker needs to be in an office again, since meetings are working effectively online
– Forms to sign each day stating who in your family is an Essential Service worker, who is sick, what's your temperature, everyone's contact details I nyour house, medical history, etc etc
– We're not sure whether to require that none take public transport – there's debate on it.
But the pressure to get everyone back to work before our home companies just fire us is growing every single day.
Those forms are dodgy, for a start, and good luck ordering people how they should commute.
The only "daily" factor there was temperature, and that's seven shades of pointless re:covid. Everything else is just a single checkbox: "do you meet any of these criteria?"
But yeah, it's a hurdle. Another option might be "alternate work from home days" to widen up the workspacing.
On Friday evening, about 730,000 cars, carrying perhaps 10% of Moscow's 12.7 million population, left the capital, centre of Russia's epidemic, for the countryside, according to Moscow's transport department.
The exodus, perfectly legal, has raised fears that the virus is being carelessly spread across the country, and angered the residents of outlying regions who had thought themselves at least relatively protected.
Your comment had me thinking about Chernobyl and the evacuation.
I would like to know the age of those who were evacuated from Moscow. If the more vulnerable, this would be a clever move as the less vulnerable would probably be able to continue working and not be such a high risk to the 60 and above age group.
"Throw[ing] everything at it hoping something will work" is a very human response even if not really logical:
A/ Something must be done!
B/ This is something we could do?
\= We must do that thing.
We are not going to be leaving lockdown until there is a vaccine admittedly. But after a few months of lockdown we will hopefully get down to lower threat levels (maybe even level 1 in isolated places like Stuart Island).
I live in a fairly rough part of Dunedin (with the housing crisis you take what you can get). If this stage 4 lockdown goes on much longer, this entire place is going to blow! People with little to lose don't have much reason to obey the law.
i have no issues with doctors trying to save lifes any way they can, especially in the face of a deadly and unknown illness. they do what they must and hopefully something will show as having an impact. I think its exclusion by trial or something like that.
But i do not believe that we are being let out of our hovels on April 22nd, i don't believe that the wage subsidy is keeping people in their houses, well fed and mentally sane. And i agree with you that people will lose their shit if the Government does not start to speak up about the 'after'. Frankly, throwing peanuts at the working populace and the beneficiaries and locking them up for their own safety was the easiest part of this excersise.
Like you i live in a blue collar, non gentrified, low income area of Vegas. Its not even a question of 'nothing to lose', its a question as to how long you can keep people living in over crowded housing without people cracking. How long can you tell people to not see their friends, family etc if only to keep sane – mentally and emotionally. To boot we are coming into winter and as we know, most of NZ housing stock is colder inside then outside.
I do hope that the Goverment will finally start addressing the flood of newly unemployed people and how they are to live and above all 'where' once they lose their housing, the flood of mental illness that can't be addressed because people can't go to see a doctor (only essential ) herck maybe you can see a dentist to pull that thooth but you sure can't see the dentist to fill that hole, the family violence and so forth.
Cause 580$ will only allow you to not die. It will not allow you to live, and by the time 12 weeks are over, they are to live of 280$. And for those that take umbrage at this comment, yes, benefits are too low, hence why i and many applauded Metiria Turei for coming out and letting anyone who cared know that she too cheated in order to survive.
And if people don't get answers they will start breaking the rules.
As we say in Germany, Zum leben zu wenig, zum sterben zuviel. Too little to live, too much to die.
The very last sentence [I don’t think it warrants a spoiler alert]:
When you get to write it out as a news story its just data to feed into a well-worn formula, a coping mechanism that also happens to be your job.
Indeed, I used to use my work to cope with life and my evenings, weekends, and non-work time [did anybody mentions holidays or socialising?] to cope with work. Now, I find writing here on TS has become one of my squeaky crutches to cope with the lockdown and global pandemic. It is affecting me more and in other ways than I could ever have imagined. It seems I’m not alone in this …
Can she try a FB – Trade me place? Surely, fridges are essential? I.e. the fridge is outside the home from where she buys it, and only she or designated friend with trailer will pick Maybe a grant from winz, or maybe a Go Fund – give a little?
no i am more thinking of buying a second hand fridge and pick up.
The only other way to do it if she is hard on cash would be to do a fundraiser or WINZ grant. But mind they don't work till tuesday and most likely will not have enough staff to answer phones or emails.
Can still buy fridges online, can pay off weekly, and yeah about $80 to deliver. I'm a solo dad who earns less than $800 a week and I'm certainly living thank you, I'm also living in a "rough area" (that term, ffs, we ain't tent city or have drug shoot outs or crack houses) in South Dunedin, one of the most densely populated areas of the country, and there is no sign of people "blowing up" (except the bozos letting off fireworks nightly).
People are still living here and so far no one is blowing up. Ditto, unless you talk about people who are losing it in supermarkets, or with their children or their spouse. But then we don't see that so it must not be happening? Right?
However will that still be the same in say another four weeks? or is only hindsight allowed as foresight might be to unpleasant to contemplate? Good grief, Sometimes this 'i am good' so all is good is tedious. I am glad you can live on what you make, But i do have a crack house, a gang house and many properties in my neighbourhood that have 'rent a cabin' on their properties, and in them live people. So maybe its all good for you, as it is for me, but that does not mean it is for all. Is that so hard to understand and is it so hard to accept?
What are you down near the beaches or some place flash like that? No methheads or gang houses on your block? Already been a few street brawls where I am. Feral dogs roaming the streets too.
byFlash? Ha!-Yeah, Fawcett St, mansions, swimming pools, helicopter pads … the most solo parents, the least internet connectivity, teen age parents, elderly, unemployed , we have it all and it's a wonderful neighbourhood. Look Sabine, I'm not a "I'm all right so fuck everyone else", I'm from Northland where some ppl don't even have power! I'm just refuting that Dunedin has "rough areas" (20 years as a posty, I know Dunedin) or that I'm dying earning less than $800 a week, I've got internet, I pay a mortgage (cheap house in cheap area in a cheap town, absolutely), I have kids, I have a car, I live.
I'm guessing you're up Corsto or Brockville? Always feral dogs up those areas, scary. edit: I personally find the “we’re all gonna die coz govt are useless” trope tedious frankly.
I have already given out more personal information on a public forum than I feel comfortable with in retrospect. So neither confirming nor denying my location in any particular suburb of Dunedin.
However, I did eventually (more distraction than difficulty delayed me)find this old article that has a good map of the various deprivation areas of Dunedin:
I am not aware that I have been going with a "we're all gonna die coz govt" trope. But then, I am really on edge barricaded in a house with kids to protect. Hard to walk outside when encroaching on the footpath outside certain houses gets glass bottles thrown at you! Fortunately we do have a fenced backyard.
If anything, my line is more; I hope the government remembers that people are messy and hard to slot neatly into tidy boxes. Especially meth-heads and alkies. Not interested in blame, just results.
I think you can apply for a permit to leave your area if need be.
I know a friend of mine in AKL who is now looking after a friend of his who is ill at home with a broken bones and can't move. He is allowed to have 'two bubbles' his one at home and as a carer at the other houses.
So very rude he gets to ride his bike from one garage to another.
also local Charity such as Habitat for Humanity. They might not be open but i am sure they still monitor emails of FB messages? And hey have the resources to manage a delivery.
AAAP's advocates will work with beneficiaries to determine whether they are receiving all the benefits they are entitled to, including whether they need to get advances and grants to help buy essential household items like whiteware.
Some interesting and good ideas here but no cost analysis.
I'm surprised that there's no mention of double glazing, as with insulation reducing energy needs should be the priority.
Immediate shovel-ready projects to prioritise: 4. Introducing a Universal Basic Income is a long shot, it would likely take some time and a lot of working out how to structure and finance this.
Government will have to be careful not to increase spending too much at a time that the PAYE and company tax takes will likely drop quite a a bit for a year or two.
I note that an automated email is sent if you sign the petition even if you untick “I’d like to take urgent action for the Earth. Please send me email updates.”:
Thank you for joining us in calling on the NZ Government to adopt a green economic stimulus response to the Covid-19 crisis.
Please now send a quick email to your friends and family now to help increase your impact.
We ask you to do this because it’s one of the best ways to make the campaign more powerful. The more support we get for this idea, the more likely our Government is to embrace it.
A recent post on TS National’s Petition is Cynical Populism criticised the National Party for 'email harvesting' via a petition even though there was no evidence of that happening and Bridges assured it wouldn't be done.
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
A recent post on TS National’s Petition is Cynical Populism criticised the National Party for 'email harvesting' via a petition even though there was no evidence of that happening and Bridges assured it wouldn't be done.
FFS! You’re still peddling the same shit!? I’ve asked you for evidence other than one Tweet by Henry Cooke to show that Simon Bridges had said what you claimed he had said. I’m still waiting.
People received a follow-up e-mail after signing Nationals ‘petition’. Are you denying that? The e-mail addresses will be stored until the ‘petition’ is presented to the House of Representatives (or not). Where is National storing it? On a Treasury website per chance? On one of their laptops in the Party office in Epsom? An emotional junior staffer could delete it accidentally …
Thirdly, the e-mail opt-out is up-front on the Greenpeace petition form, not down one level as National’s is [present time].
Lastly, Greenpeace is an independent organisation and not a NZ political party in full electioneering mode and cynically campaigning for something the Government is about to do anyway in a couple of days. False equivalence or just a simple misunderstanding on your behalf?
You’re starting to piss me off, Pete, with your wilful and ignorant belligerence.
"People received a follow-up e-mail after signing Nationals ‘petition’. Are you denying that?"
Of course not, I showed that it looks like a standard response to other petitions, just like the Greenpeace petition. But that doesn't show that National are harvesting the email addresses to use for other purposes.
Are you doubting Henry Cooke's word? I at least provided something.
It's more evidence than I've seen for claims that National are harvesting email addresses from the petition.
Are you serious about your accusation of wilful aggressive or warlike behaviour? This is a political blog, I thought that calmly challenging claims and debating things raised was withing the rules here.
Of course not, I showed that it looks like a standard response to other petitions, just like the Greenpeace petition. But that doesn't show that National are harvesting the email addresses to use for other purposes.
Nope. There’s a difference in “standard response”. Have you been able yet to work out the difference between the Greenpeace and National petitions? Look closer and for helpful hints see @ 11.1. National’s petition prompted an e-mail follow-up and only then the opt-out (unsubscribe) appeared. It was clearly a baiting trap to harvest contact information for electioneering.
Are you doubting Henry Cooke's word?
No, not at all, but I’m not after Henry Cooke’s word, I want Simon’s word. Where is it? Bridges can claim plausible denial, as technically he’s never said what you claim he has said. Think about it for a second and see if the penny drops.
It's more evidence than I've seen for claims that National are harvesting email addresses from the petition.
You can’t have it both ways. If Cooke’s Tweet is your (only!) evidence for what Bridges said then the same Tweet is simultaneously evidence that National were collecting e-mail addresses from the petition. Both pieces of ‘evidence’ stand or fall together.
Are you serious about your accusation of wilful aggressive or warlike behaviour?
My apologies, I meant “petulant”.
This is a political blog, I thought that calmly challenging claims and debating things raised was withing [sic] the rules here.
Calmly repeating wilful ignorance is against the rules. It is also known as BS, making up shit, wilful denial, et cetera.
"technically he’s never said what you claim he has said"
Technically you're making that up because you don't know.
I didn't claim Bridges said it, I quoted a Henry Cooke tweet. If Cooke is correct and Bridges claims plausible deniability (something you seem to have just suggested as a possibility) then Cooke can hold him to account for it. Think about it for a second and see if the penny drops.
” the same Tweet is simultaneously evidence that National were collecting e-mail addresses from the petition.”
No it isn’t. An automatic response is not evidence of collecting emails for campaign purposes, which was the original accusation.
You keep implying I am "repeating wilful ignorance" with no evidence of that. It looks like wilful repeating to me, but I wouldn't say it's through ignorance.
If you really wanted to know you could check with Cooke as to whether his tweet was wilful ignorance or not.
Technically you're making that up because you don't know.
If you have any evidence other than the indirect one in Cooke’s Tweet then show it. Others and I have asked you repeatedly and you’ve returned a blank each time. It looks like there’s no other evidence to corroborate the Tweet by Cooke, not Simon’s Tweet. We all know Bridges is an experienced Twitterer so maybe he’s Tweeted it himself. Yes? Come on, Mr Bridges, show us your Tweet! I cannot find it anywhere here: https://twitter.com/NZNationalParty/status/1247998266102304768 or here https://twitter.com/simonjbridges
I didn't claim Bridges said it, I quoted a Henry Cooke tweet.
Yes, you did make that claim and your exact words were:
But on this petition Bridges has explicitly said National won't retain any contact details from this petition. [my emphasis]
So, where did Bridges say it, directly, in his own words, under his own name?
If you really wanted to know you could check with Cooke as to whether his tweet was wilful ignorance or not.
I wasn’t accusing Cooke of being wilfully ignorant, I was responding to you about you. You’re trying to divert again.
Firstly, Keen says, they should be implementing a modern debt jubilee now.
"It's quite feasible to do it [but] I never thought it would happen. People asked me what chance I thought this had of happening. I said it's less than a snowflake's chance in hell. We are in hell now and the only way out of hell, as well as getting a vaccine for the virus, is to reduce this burden of private debt otherwise we'll have a financial collapse after the coronavirus," says Keen.
The alternative, he argues, is mass loan defaults.
"You simply have to accept that debt can't be repaid when too much debt has been issued. So we have to reduce private debt and we have to do it now. [We] should do a debt jubilee now, not once we get through this crisis. Otherwise there'll be many people who can't pay their rent, as well as people who can't pay their mortgages," says Keen.
"If we do it now we'll enable the payments system to continue functioning. If we don't do it now then it's quite possible the payments system will collapse. Small businesses won't get any cash income, households won't get wages. Everybody will end up having no money in their bank accounts because that money will be used to pay off debt."
theres a lot to what he says…I see hes moved to a regional model which is more workable IMO….but I still think he overestimates the possible level of autarky ….and still have concerns around UBI but it may end up being the least bad option.
Yes, back to debt-jubilee. Time for capitalist type business measures.
But this will be done in true charity, not out of wily weaving round because of bad management. Act of God this, and now is time for the Jesus' Samaritan act.
Just noticed my rubbish bag. Usually it is full to the brim even though we don't put food in the bag. This week it is only one quarter full. What? And the recycling bin is also about a quarter of the usual level. What?
Why is that happening? Same amount of food/wrapping but no trips to Mitre 10 etc. Have not cleaned out the garage or cupboards but wouldn't use the rubbish bags for that anyway.
No flyers in the letter box selling us specials that we don't need , no weekly local real estate mags of what is for sale in the region/area and no community newspapers.
If we are not spending, then all the packaging that goes with that is not being discarded. No takeaways, be that food of coffee, more baking if our household is representative.
Suppose it must be those things Herodotus though we get no fliers and those weekly newspapers just join the dailies in the recycling. Seldom takeaways but those endless packaging being absent must be some of it.
If every is having shortages of rubbish then it might be an indicator of significant drop in national waste. Must be something important in that, assuming every else is having same "problem."
A vaccine against the coronavirus could be ready by September, according to a scientist leading one of Britain’s most advanced teams.
Sarah Gilbert, professor of vaccinology at Oxford University, told The Times on Saturday that she is “80% confident” the vaccine would work, and could be ready by September. Experts have warned the public that vaccines typically take years to develop, and one for the coronavirus could take between 12 to 18 months at best.
In the case of the Oxford team, however, “it’s not just a hunch, and as every week goes by we have more data to look at,” Gilbert told the London newspaper.
There was an interview on 9 to none with Kathryn Ryan last week where she interviewed a spokesperson from one of the American Big Pharma companies. I didn't catch all of it as I was busy in the workshop at the time but what I did hear was this:
a. There is apparently world wide cooperation across Universities and Pharmaceuticals in an effort to develop a vaccine and each are pursuing a slightly different approach. But collaboration is the key ingredient so to speak.
b. At the same time they are going ahead with developing the production process so that if and when the effectiveness and reliability of a vaccine is approved it can be speedily put into prodauction
c. they realise that this needs to be a not for profit vaccine and are collaborating with govt's world wide for its eventual distribution.
I suspect it won't be not for profit so much as a regulated profit. That, is the Pharma companies involved in the development and manufacturing will get some form of mandated return on their capital.
Well it is only fair that they receive the costs of research and development but they are aware as is everyone else that the only way out of this, in any timely fashion, is the availability of an effective vaccine not just for developed nations – but world wide – and that means making the vaccine as affordable as possible.
MERS is still killing 30% of people who contract it in the Middle East and there isn't a vaccine for that as far as I know. Nor SARS Cov 2 either.
WHO website lists other epidemic all the rage at the moment.
I seriously doubt that there will be a vaccine for this one but a lot will be found out about Cov19 while trying to find one. So why is so much money being spent trying to make one… just how much money do you think Trump et al would stump up if researchers said "We are not going to be able to make a vaccine but we will learn a lot about it ".
I wouldn't take the lack of a vaccine against MERS as any kind of indication that a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine won't get developed.
The total worldwide cumulative number of MERS infections is around 2500, with around 850 deaths. Its person-to-person transmissibility appears very low. Infection risk appears much higher among those that get up close and personal with camels, and in recent years the disease has been pretty much confined to Saudi Arabia.
So there's just not much incentive to develop a vaccine against MERS. Whereas with SARS-CoV-2, there's a huge incentive to develop a vaccine.
As far as I can see there are no vaccines for any viruses in the corona family.
The SARS-CoV-1 got the furthest through, but after 10 years when almost all of the funding for finding one was shutdown, they were only just finding ones that looked viable for human testing. In other words, it took them a decade.
MERS-Cov looks like it is in the same boat. The epidemic started in 2012 and still has cases. But they have only recently progressed to human trials.
It is believed that the existing SARS research may provide a useful template for developing vaccines and therapeutics against a MERS-CoV infection.[36][37]. As of March 2020 there was one (DNA based) MERS vaccine which completed phase I clinical trials in humans[38], and three others in progress all of which are viral vectored vaccines, two adenoviral vectored (ChAdOx1-MERS[39][40], BVRS-GamVac[41]) and one MVA vectored (MVA-MERS-S[42]).[43]
They will be using the accumulated SARS and MERS research for developing a vaccine. Like this. But in my opinion as a systems/development orientated person looking at history, I’d guess that any vaccine is more likely to be viable in a 5 year range rather than 18 month range.
Personally I think that targeting treatments to stop people having to go to ICU level treatment is going to be a preferable target for immediate development.
But I hope that this time we’ll see corona virus vaccine development actually pushed through to fruition. This is unlikely to be the last from that family and it appears that they’re pretty good at adapting to high density human populations (their primary host appears to be high density bat populations).
As far as I can see there are no vaccines for any viruses in the corona family.
There's a common bovine enteric coronavirus that there's a vaccine against.
Since it attacks cow digestive systems rather than human respiratory systems it’s kinda irrelevant to the current crisis, except as a counterexample to the notion that coronaviruses are impossible to develop vaccines against.
Finally the reality has set in to many americans, that the strategy to get a left wing candidate in the democratic party is just a no go. The democratic party is a corporation all of its own needs, wants and desires of money and power. Indeed whilst the democrats have had control, they have done sweet bugger all to fix inequality.
The plan, a third party coalition working in the interests of working people.
Because the Dems are the real problem and you and your ilk are ok with 4 more years of tRump in order to either teach Dems a lesson or burn the party to the ground. And somehow that will guarantee the success and purity of the progressive message.
Fwiw, no third party atm has a chance in the US. And to add, i don't think the US will have elections in November and i am basing this on the recent ruling of the Supreme Court who forced voters in Wisconsin to go out and vote in person during a deadly pandemic.
Blame the voter.. nice one Joe… Would you and sleepy Joe be able to spot a political movement if it was staring you in the face… on this evidence probably not.
i blame the white economical anxious working male, the 'pro life' all sperm are sacred evangelic white voters fort his heep of shit and his thoroughly shitty family. and the shitty party that supports them cause money.
sometimes you don't vote for a shitty excuse like Jill Stein just because you don't get your will. Sometimes you vote for the least shitheel on the block, considering that it will be your living room carpet with the shitstains left behind.
The two priorities that officials say have not been sacrificed by Trump or his supply chain task force, dubbed “the children” inside FEMA’s headquarters, are private profit and the ability of the White House to choose where supplies go.
Members of the team include friends and close allies of Kushner, who is also the president’s son-in-law. Brad Smith, described as a “volunteer” because he is on loan from his job as deputy administrator of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, is a Kushner friend who has been involved in its work.
The supply chain task force leaders pushed aside the existing federal emergency management response teams that had long-established methods for engaging assistance from the public and private sectors. Instead, they first reached out to personal contacts, according to people familiar with their operations. To the extent that they have absorbed some of the old practices over the course of time, with the help of career officials intent on bringing their actions in line with protocol, it has taken time to figure out their own system.
"Jared and his friends decided they were going to do their thing," said the senior government official involved in the response effort. "It cost weeks."
i might not be happy with the current goverment or the last one and so on, but i never in my life have willingly voted for someone whom i know to be a sadist, a serial sexual offender, a gambler, a liar, a thief, to name just a few of the fine characteristics of Donald Trump and pretend that i did so because the alternative was worse.
So yeah, our political parties resemble the voters, and sadly our democracy does not grant us 'none of the fucking above' as a valid choice. So in order to be a decent citizen, who wants the best for the country and the ones following us when we are dead and dust, we only ever get to vote for the least of all evils. And he is fucking evil, and people now have to bury their loved ones as a consequence. So yeah, blame the white economically anxious white working male – as no other working class is ever of importance – and their pro life beckys and karens and their priests and prophets of the golden calf.
The government has delivered a relief package for 12 weeks. This is the priority before a stimulus package.
I am pleased NZ is not like the EU about relief money. EU not being able to agree on how borrowed money will be paid back. At least Boris Johnson has escaped the EU infighting.
How much of NZ's relief package would be stimulating the economy?
NYT just published 80 pages of internal emails from the "Red Dawn" groups within the Trump administration, mostly health and national security professionals alarmed about the peril of covid-19. With names and dates.
"Money men and morons risking a 2nd wave of infection
Up until very recently Singapore has been regarded as "the gold standard" in the fight against Covid-19.
On Wednesday, Singapore reported a record of 142 new infections in the city-state, many of which have been connected to foreign workers living in compact dormitories.
This was the second major outbreak in Singapore – after weeks of successfully controlling the outbreak within its borders.
The recent resurgence of infections has prompted the government to implement a lockdown, closing down schools and most workplaces for a month.
They had not actually done a lockdown – until now.
Dr Hosking had angrily insisted we do what Singapore was doing – before insisting all victims of Covid-19 were going to die anyway and let's not crash the economy – before Boros went to ICU – and then Dr Hosking flip flopped like a scruffy turd burger for a third time.
OMG take his microphone away !
Opposition for opposition's sake became the target for public ridicule and now Dr Hosking is a bad nationwide joke, slightly in front of Simon Bridges who is running a very close second.
But there have been other equally dangerous and misleading voices telling us to hurry back to mixing and socialising like that cat hating dude with the graphs.
You know Mr Morgan – that guy!
He does not know much about viruses really – and media are promoting his views that we rush back based on his simple graphs.
He says that – because Australia is still living it up – he reckons we've already overcooked things here.
Get ready for a second wave if you follow these money men and not the real medical experts.
Large segments of the most wealthy are pretty damned thick and the Nats will be wailing to the moon about cash soon enough – not public health.
Today Jacinda Ardern slapped Heather du Plessis-Allan across the chops with a dead mullet until she got it into her thick head that the simplistic high level thinking of brain dead Nats on Newscrap ZB involved imagining cramming returning kiwis into cramped, confined facilities which would have become death traps.
"It's a no brainer" they all repeated without once talking through scale, the timing issues, the space requirements, the food, the security …..or anything remotely connected to the reality of the concept.
Truth be known – none of them appreciated the scale nor the logistics of mandatory quarantine but instead – they all said "Finally" as if this should have happened three weeks ago…when it was logistically impossible because of scale.
These bone heads would have recreated several land based cruise ships – where thousands became infected in close confines – because of their low detail thinking.
Sticking to evidence, the best medical advice and being ultra careful about each step – involves shaking off the loud cacophony of politically motivated, grandstanding fuck heads, who dominate our media landscape.
The recent spike of cases in Singapore underscored how easily the virus can spread even with social distancing measures in place – and it may give us a glimpse of what will happen it we lose our patience and listen to "economic experts" instead of scientists and medical experts.
Let's not fuck this up, by letting ego maniacs with big wallets and megaphones snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Money men and morons risking a 2nd wave of infection."
While there is some obvious crossover there should be a separation between environmental and green issues.
There's a crossover between social issues, environmental issues, business and employment issues, financial issues and health issues, so it seems odd that Greens just chose to connect environmental and social issues. Health and finance are closer to social issues than the environment.
At times it appears to me that Greens use the environment as an excuse to promote social fixes.
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
Give Pete a break, he’s never heard of or understood the Green’s, their values, their philosophy, their policies, their approaches, their messaging, et cetera. Pete is new to politics, obviously, and it will be a steep learning curve for Pete.
Dude, you don’t get to centristsplain to actual greenies what their politics are, especially under a post that is an exemplar of green politics. I haven’t read your other recent comments yet, but my suggestion is that you read the post properly and get with the kaupapa at the end of it. Putting you in premod so I can keep an eye on it.
I wonder if we can expect an attack on this petition by someone who will declare it to be "cynical populism" and an attempt to harvest e-mail addresses?
I note that your e-mail address is a required entry if you wish to sign. Can we expect people who objected to the National petition to be complaining about "harvest(ing) thousands of signatures under false flag pretences."?
And no I am certainly not going to be charging in to do so. Parliament requires the address after all as the protesters about the National petition should have known.
Edit. Accidentally hit the submit button before I had finished.
I personally think that there are a lot of excellent ideas there. Whether we can afford them when we finally get society working again and having a few hundred thousand out of work is another matter.
[lol, nice try with the edit, but you still can’t use my posts to do attack comments or post offtopic. You can hash it out with Pete who already had a go, in OM – weka]
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
This is the carefully worded attack that I’ve come to expect from a smart Alek like you.
I wonder if we can expect an attack on this petition by someone who will declare it to be "cynical populism" and an attempt to harvest e-mail addresses?
I think you might be in for a disappointment.
I note that your e-mail address is a required entry if you wish to sign. Can we expect people who objected to the National petition to be complaining about "harvest(ing) thousands of signatures under false flag pretences."?
Not a good day for you, it could be a double disappointment.
Parliament requires the address after all as the protesters about the National petition should have known.
Disingenuous comment. People click away online and give away loads of (personal) information in the process. This is what National was banking on but you missed the point(s) as did Pete George.
I could swear that Pete George and you are related. You should have a look at his comments @ 11, 11.1.1, and 22, but I warn you, it will be like looking in the mirror.
National knows how it works and launched an unnecessary petition through which it collated e-mail addresses of voters. Some signed up unwittingly, which was entirely predictable, but their details will be deleted at some stage (??) according to Henry Cooke. Meanwhile, National is still collating ‘signatures’ despite the fact the mandatory quarantine has been in full force for three days! Why??
You’ve read the article by Anna Rawhiti-Connell that Cinny linked to yesterday.
False.
National knows how it works and launched an unnecessary petition through which it collated e-mail addresses of voters.
I expect National knows how it can work. It's reasonable to think that National didn't consider the petition unneccesary. Ardern had not stated when quarantining of all people arriving in New Zealand which a number of people had been urging, including National and Dr David Skegg.
You haven't shown any evidence that National collated email addresses of voters (or of petition signers who aren't necessarily voters) – and that's a different thing to autoresponding emails which are standard for petitions.
…their details will be deleted at some stage (??) according to Henry Cooke.
I don't think a journalist of Cooke's standing would make that up. Do you? You don't seem to put any credence on what he tweeted.
Meanwhile, National is still collating ‘signatures’ despite the fact the mandatory quarantine has been in full force for three days! Why??
I don't know why. Perhaps the petition has a set time to run. Perhaps they want to do it for publicity purposes. Perhaps Bridges was lying about not gathering emails for other purposes, or Cooke was lying about Bridges saying all email address data would be deleted. Or it could be something else. Jumping to a conclusion or speculating about something that's not know seems a bit pointless.
Yet, you maintain it’s perfectly normal!?
I've never maintained that. I've just questioned you claiming things for which you have not backed up with any evidence.
I thought you were commenting here in good faith. Cinny linked to article by Anna Rawhiti-Connell saying “Here's the article, via Stuff, via Newsroom from April 2019”. However, you corrected her saying “That's from August last year.” How did you know this if you hadn’t clicked on the link? Are you trying to tell me you clicked on the link, looked at the date only, and then closed it again without reading? And you still haven’t read it? Yeah, right!
I expect National knows how it can work. [my emphasis]
Why do you have to turn things into a beige watered down version of reality, Pete?
Simply: National knows how it does work. FIFY.
You obviously haven’t figured out that that not all “autoresponding emails” are identical; the Greenpeace and National e-mail responses were quite different in one important aspect and you have closed your eye to it and turn your head away from it. Can’t you deal with this inconvenient fact?
Does National have the e-mail addresses in its possession, Pete? If you don’t know, which I’m sure you were going to give as answer, do you think it is likely they keep these details somewhere until they present the petition to the appropriate recipient in the House of Representatives? I wonder what weasely way with words you’ll come up with; I can almost not wait.
Is Henry Cooke the Leader of the National Party? No, he is not. You’re diverting away the focus, which is on Simon Bridges. When Bridges signs a document, he lets Cooke sign it on his behalf? When Bridges gives a press conference, he lets Cooke do the talking? It would save him the long commute to Wellington each time and he can stay with his family in Tauranga.
When I see something that doesn’t stack up I could wait, e.g. till somebody else starts asking questions, or till the cows come home. Or I could take a position and write about it in order to get to the bottom of it, unlike you who seems to wait till it is an ironclad crystal-clear case and then you may come off the fence and offer your opinion. Would that be a fair description?
I don’t think it is pointless to dig hard and deep while we are in a State of Emergency and in an Election Year. Weird comment from a blogger and part-time journalist.
No, you haven’t just questioned my claims, which could be completely wrong. You have defended Bridges and National’s petition all the way and said that it is an ordinary petition with an ordinary response and nothing untoward about it.
My ‘evidence’, so far, is in the link you provided to Cooke’s Tweet plus all the other stuff that doesn’t stack up; you could call it ‘circumstantial evidence’ as well as means, motive, and opportunity.
I will never view the word 'patriarchy' the same again…everyone has plenty of spare time (except essential workers, thank you)….spend a productive hour and listen.
edit: Hong Kong (CNN)The African community in Guangzhou is on edge after widespread accounts were shared on social media of people being left homeless this week, as China’s warnings against imported coronavirus cases stoke anti-foreigner sentiment.
In the southern Chinese city, Africans have been evicted from their homes by landlords and turned away from hotels, despite many claiming to have no recent travel history or known contact with Covid-19 patients.
CNN interviewed more than two dozen Africans living in Guangzhou many of whom told of the same experiences: being left without a home, being subject to random testing for Covid-19, and being quarantined for 14 days in their homes, despite having no symptoms or contact with known patients.
New Zealand is again having to reconcile conflicting pressures from its military and its trade interests. Should we join Pillar Two of AUKUS and risk compromising our markets in China? For a century after New Zealand was founded in 1840, its external security arrangements and external economics arrangements were aligned. ...
The ‘50 Shades of Green’ farmers’ protest in 2019 was heavy on climate change denial, but five years on, scepticism and criticism about the idea that pine forests can save us is growing across the board. File photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: Here’s the top six news items of note in climate ...
This morning the sky was bright.The birds, in their usual joyous bliss. Nature doesn’t seem to feel the heat of what might angst humans.Their calls are clear and beautiful.Just some random thoughts:MāoriPaul Goldsmith has announced his government will roll back the judiciary’s rulings on Māori Customary Marine Title, which recognises ...
In 2003, the Court of Appeal delivered its decision in Ngati Apa v Attorney-General, ruling that Māori customary title over the foreshore and seabed had not been universally extinguished, and that the Māori Land Court could determine claims and confirm title if the facts supported it. This kicked off the ...
Earlier this week at Parliament, Labour leader Chris Hipkins was applauded for saying that the response to the final report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care had to be “bigger than politics.” True, but the fine words, apologies and “we hear you” messages will soon ring ...
TL;DR: In news breaking this morning:The Ministry of Education is cutting $2 billion from its school building programme so the National-ACT-NZ First Coalition Government has enough money to deliver tax cuts; The Government has quietly lowered its child poverty reduction targets to make them easier to achieve;Te Whatu Ora-Health NZ’s ...
Kia ora. These are some stories that caught our eye this week – as always, feel free to share yours in the comments. Our header image this week (via Eke Panuku) shows the planned upgrade for the Karanga Plaza Tidal Swimming Steps. The week in Greater Auckland On ...
1. What's not to love about the way the Harris campaign is turning things around?a. Nothingb. Love all of itc. God what a reliefd. Not that it will be by any means easye. All of the above 2. Documents released by the Ministry of Health show Associate Health Minister Casey ...
Trust in me in all you doHave the faith I have in youLove will see us through, if only you trust in meWhy don't you, you trust me?In a week that saw the release of the 3,000 page Abuse in Care report Christopher Luxon was being asked about Boot Camps. ...
TL;DR: The podcast above of the weekly ‘hoon’ webinar for paying subscribers last night features co-hosts and talking about the Royal Commission Inquiry into Abuse in Carereport released this week, and with:The Kākā’s climate correspondent on a UN push to not recognise carbon offset markets and ...
TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Friday, July 26, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:Transport: Simeon Brown announced$802.9 million in funding for 18 new trains on the Wairarapa and Manawatū rail lines, which ...
The northern expressway extension from Warkworth to Whangarei is likely to require radical changes to legislation if it is going to be built within the foreseeable future. The Government’s powers to purchase land, the planning process and current restrictions on road tolling are all going to need to be changed ...
Text within this block will maintain its original spacing when publishedFirst they came for the doctors But I was confused by the numbers and costs So I didn't speak up Then they came for our police and nurses And I didn't think we could afford those costs anyway So I ...
Photo by Joshua J. Cotten on UnsplashWe’re back again after our mid-winter break. We’re still with the ‘new’ day of the week (Thursday rather than Friday) when we have our ‘hoon’ webinar with paying subscribers to The Kākā for an hour at 5 pm.Jump on this link on YouTube Livestream ...
Notes: This is a free article. Abuse in Care themes are mentioned. Video is at the bottom.BackgroundYesterday’s report into Abuse in Care revealed that at least 1 in 3 of all who went through state and faith based care were abused - often horrifically. At least, because not all survivors ...
Luxon speaks in Parliament yesterday about the Abuse in Care report. Photo: Hagen Hopkins/Getty ImagesTL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy today are:PM Christopher Luxon said yesterday in tabling the Abuse in Carereport in Parliament he wanted to ‘do the ...
About a decade ago I worked with a bloke called Steve. He was the grizzled veteran coder, a few years older than me, who knew where the bodies were buried - code wise. Despite his best efforts to be approachable and friendly he could be kind of gruff, through to ...
Some of the recent announcements from the government have reminded us of posts we’ve written in the past. Here’s one from early 2020. There were plenty of reactions to the government’s infrastructure announcement a few weeks ago which saw them fund a bunch of big roading projects. One of ...
TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 7:00 am on Thursday, July 25 are:News: Why Electric Kiwi is closing to new customers - and why it matters RNZ’s Susan EdmundsScoop: Government drops ...
Hi,I felt a small wet tongue snaking through one of the holes in my Crocs. It explored my big toe, darting down one side, then the other. “He’s looking for some toe cheese,” said the woman next to me, words that still haunt me to this day.Growing up in New ...
Yesterday I happily quoted the Prime Minister without fact-checking him and sure enough, it turns out his numbers were all to hell. It’s not four kg of Royal Commission report, it’s fourteen.My friend and one-time colleague-in-comms Hazel Phillips gently alerted me to my error almost as soon as I’d hit ...
TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Thursday, July 25, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day were:The Abuse in Care Royal Commission of Inquirypublished its final report yesterday.PM Christopher Luxon and The Minister responsible for ...
The Official Information Act has always been a battle between requesters seeking information, and governments seeking to control it. Information is power, so Ministers and government agencies want to manage what is released and when, for their own convenience, and legality and democracy be damned. Their most recent tactic for ...
TL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy today are:Transport and Energy Minister Simeon Brown is accelerating plans to spend at least $10 billion through Public Private Partnerships (PPPs) to extend State Highway One as a four-lane ‘Expressway’ from Warkworth to Whangarei ...
I live my life (woo-ooh-ooh)With no control in my destinyYea-yeah, yea-yeah (woo-ooh-ooh)I can bleed when I want to bleedSo come on, come on (woo-ooh-ooh)You can bleed when you want to bleedYea-yeah, come on (woo-ooh-ooh)Everybody bleed when they want to bleedCome on and bleedGovernments face tough challenges. Selling unpopular decisions to ...
Please note:To skip directly to the- parliamentary footage in the video, scroll to 1:21 To skip to audio please click on the headphone iconon the left hand side of the screenThis video / audio section is under development. ...
Given the crackdown on wasteful government spending, it behooves me to point to a high profile example of spending by the Luxon government that looks like a big, fat waste of time and money. I’m talking about the deployment of NZDF personnel to support the US-led coalition in the Red ...
TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 7:40 am on Wednesday, July 24 are:Deep Dive: Chipping away at the housing crisis, including my comments RNZ/Newsroom’s The DetailNews: Government softens on asset sales, ...
As I reported about the city centre, Auckland’s rail network is also going through a difficult and disruptive period which is rapidly approaching a culmination, this will result in a significant upgrade to the whole network. Hallelujah. Also like the city centre this is an upgrade predicated on the City ...
Today, a 4 kilogram report will be delivered to Parliament. We know this is what the report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in State and Faith-based Care weighs, because our Prime Minister told us so.Some reporter had blindsided him by asking a question about something done by ...
TL;DR: As of 7:00 am on Wednesday, July 24, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:Beehive:Transport Minister Simeon Brownannounced plans to use PPPs to fund, build and run a four-lane expressway between Auckland ...
NewstalkZB host Mike Hosking, who can usually be relied on to give Prime Minister Christopher Luxon an easy run, did not do so yesterday when he interviewed him about the HealthNZ deficit. Luxon is trying to use a deficit reported last year by HealthNZ as yet another example of the ...
Back in January a StatsNZ employee gave a speech at Rātana on behalf of tangata whenua in which he insulted and criticised the government. The speech clearly violated the principle of a neutral public service, and StatsNZ started an investigation. Part of that was getting an external consultant to examine ...
Renting for life: Shared ownership initiatives are unlikely to slow the slide in home ownership by much. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy today are:A Deloittereport for Westpac has projected Aotearoa’s home-ownership rate will ...
You're broken down and tiredOf living life on a merry go roundAnd you can't find the fighterBut I see it in you so we gonna walk it outAnd move mountainsWe gonna walk it outAnd move mountainsAnd I'll rise upI'll rise like the dayI'll rise upI'll rise unafraidI'll rise upAnd I'll ...
There’s been a change in Myers Park. Down the steps from St. Kevin’s Arcade, past the grassy slopes, the children’s playground, the benches and that goat statue, there has been a transformation. The underpass for Mayoral Drive has gone from a barren, grey, concrete tunnel, to a place that thrums ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections Global society may have finally slammed on the brakes for climate-warming pollution released by human fossil fuel combustion. According to the Carbon Monitor Project, the total global climate pollution released between February and May 2024 declined slightly from the amount released during the same ...
TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 7:00 am on Tuesday, July 23 are:Deep Dive: Penlink: where tolling rhetoric meets reality BusinessDesk-$$$’sOliver LewisScoop:Te Pūkenga plans for regional polytechs leak out ...
TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Tuesday, July 23, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:Health: Shane Reti announcedthe Board of Te Whatu Ora-Health New Zealand was being replaced with Commissioner Lester Levy ...
Health NZ warned the Government at the end of March that it was running over Budget. But the reasons it gave were very different to those offered by the Prime Minister yesterday. Prime Minister Christopher Luxon blamed the “botched merger” of the 20 District Health Boards (DHBs) to create Health ...
Long ReadKey Summary: Although National increased the health budget by $1.4 billion in May, they used an old funding model to project health system costs, and never bothered to update their pre-election numbers. They were told during the Health Select Committees earlier in the year their budget amount was deficient, ...
As a momentous, historic weekend in US politics unfolded, analysts and commentators grasped for precedents and comparisons to help explain the significance and power of the choice Joe Biden had made. The 46th president had swept the Democratic party’s primaries but just over 100 days from the election had chosen ...
TL;DR: I’m casting around for new ideas and ways of thinking about Aotearoa’s political economy to find a few solutions to our cascading and self-reinforcing housing, poverty and climate crises.Associate Professor runs an online masters degree in the economics of sustainability at Torrens University in Australia and is organising ...
The Finance and Expenditure Committee has reported back on National's Local Government (Water Services Preliminary Arrangements) Bill. The bill sets up water for privatisation, and was introduced under urgency, then rammed through select committee with no time even for local councils to make a proper submission. Naturally, national's select committee ...
Some years ago, I bought a book at Dunedin’s Regent Booksale for $1.50. As one does. Vandrad the Viking (1898), by J. Storer Clouston, is an obscure book these days – I cannot find a proper online review – but soon it was sitting on my shelf, gathering dust alongside ...
History is not on the side of the centre-left, when Democratic presidents fall behind in the polls and choose not to run for re-election. On both previous occasions in the past 75 years (Harry Truman in 1952, Lyndon Johnson in 1968) the Democrats proceeded to then lose the White House ...
This is a free articleCoverageThis morning, US President Joe Biden announced his withdrawal from the Presidential race. And that is genuinely newsworthy. Thanks for your service, President Biden, and all the best to you and yours.However, the media in New Zealand, particularly the 1News nightly bulletin, has been breathlessly covering ...
A homeless person’s camp beside a blocked-off slipped damage walkway in Freeman’s Bay: we are chasing our tail on our worsening and inter-related housing, poverty and climate crises. Photo: Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy ...
What has happened to it all?Crazy, some'd sayWhere is the life that I recognise?(Gone away)But I won't cry for yesterdayThere's an ordinary worldSomehow I have to findAnd as I try to make my wayTo the ordinary worldYesterday morning began as many others - what to write about today? I began ...
TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 7:00 am on Monday, July 22 are:Today’s Must Read: Father and son live in a tent, and have done for four years, in a million ...
TL;DR: As of 7:00 am on Monday, July 22, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:US President Joe Biden announced via X this morning he would not stand for a second term.Multinational professional services firm ...
A listing of 32 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, July 14, 2024 thru Sat, July 20, 2024. Story of the week As reflected by preponderance of coverage, our Story of the Week is Project 2025. Until now traveling ...
This weekend, a friend pointed out someone who said they’d like to read my posts, but didn’t want to pay. And my first reaction was sympathy.I’ve already told folks that if they can’t comfortably subscribe, and would like to read, I’d be happy to offer free subscriptions. I don’t want ...
National: The Party of ‘Law and Order’ IntroductionThis weekend, the Government formally kicked off one of their flagship policy programs: a military style boot camp that New Zealand has experimented with over the past 50 years. Cartoon credit: Guy BodyIt’s very popular with the National Party’s Law and Orderimage, ...
Day one of the solo leg of my long journey home begins with my favourite sound: footfalls in an empty street. 5.00 am and it’s already light and already too warm, almost.If I can make the train that leaves Budapest later this hour I could be in Belgrade by nightfall; ...
Do you remember Y2K, the threat that hung over humanity in the closing days of the twentieth century? Horror scenarios of planes falling from the sky, electronic payments failing and ATMs refusing to dispense cash. As for your VCR following instructions and recording your favourite show - forget about it.All ...
Climate Change Minister Simon Watts being questioned by The Kākā’s Bernard Hickey.TL;DR: My top six things to note around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the week to July 20 were:1. A strategy that fails Zero Carbon Act & Paris targetsThe National-ACT-NZ First Coalition Government finally unveiled ...
Summary:As New Zealand loses at least 12 leaders in the public service space of health, climate, and pharmaceuticals, this month alone, directly in response to the Government’s policies and budget choices, what lies ahead may be darker than it appears. Tui examines some of those departures and draws a long ...
The Minister of Housing’s ambition is to reduce markedly the ratio of house prices to household incomes. If his strategy works it would transform the housing market, dramatically changing the prospects of housing as an investment.Leaving aside the Minister’s metaphor of ‘flooding the market’ I do not see how the ...
As previously noted, my historical fantasy piece, set in the fifth-century Mediterranean, was accepted for a Pirate Horror anthology, only for the anthology to later fall through. But in a good bit of news, it turned out that the story could indeed be re-marketed as sword and sorcery. As of ...
An employee of tobacco company Philip Morris International demonstrates a heated tobacco device. Photo: Getty ImagesTL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy on Friday, July 19 are:At a time when the Coalition Government is cutting spending on health, infrastructure, education, housing ...
TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 8:30 am on Friday, July 19 are:Scoop: NZ First Minister Casey Costello orders 50% cut to excise tax on heated tobacco products. The minister has ...
Kia ora, it’s time for another Friday roundup, in which we pull together some of the links and stories that caught our eye this week. Feel free to add more in the comments! Our header image this week shows a foggy day in Auckland town, captured by Patrick Reynolds. ...
TL;DR : Here’s the top six items climate news for Aotearoa this week, as selected by Bernard Hickey and The Kākā’s climate correspondent Cathrine Dyer. A discussion recorded yesterday is in the video above and the audio of that sent onto the podcast feed.The Government released its draft Emissions Reduction ...
Save some money, get rich and old, bring it back to Tobacco Road.Bring that dynamite and a crane, blow it up, start all over again.Roll up. Roll up. Or tailor made, if you prefer...Whether you’re selling ciggies, digging for gold, catching dolphins in your nets, or encouraging folks to flutter ...
Waiting In The Wings:For truly, if Trump is America’s un-assassinated Caesar, then J.D. Vance is America’s Octavian, the Republic’s youthful undertaker – and its first Emperor.DONALD TRUMP’S SELECTION of James D. Vance as his running-mate bodes ill for the American republic. A fervent supporter of Viktor Orban, the “illiberal” prime ...
TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Friday, July 19, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:The PSAannounced the Employment Relations Authority (ERA) had ruled in the PSA’s favour in its case against the Ministry ...
TL;DR: The podcast above of the weekly ‘hoon’ webinar for paying subscribers last night features co-hosts and talking with:The Kākā’s climate correspondent talking about the National-ACT-NZ First Government’s release of its first Emissions Reduction Plan;University of Otago Foreign Relations Professor and special guest Dr Karin von ...
Open access notablesImproving global temperature datasets to better account for non-uniform warming, Calvert, Quarterly Journal of the Royal Meteorological Society:To better account for spatial non-uniform trends in warming, a new GITD [global instrumental temperature dataset] was created that used maximum likelihood estimation (MLE) to combine the land surface ...
A late change to charter school legislation will cheat educators out of fair pay and negotiating power proving charter schools are just a vehicle to make profit out of our education system. ...
In 2004 te iwi Māori rallied against the Crown’s attempt to confiscate our coastlines and moana with the Foreshore and Seabed Act. This led to the largest hīkoi of a generation and the birth of Te Pāti Māori. 20 years later, history is repeating itself. Today the government has announced ...
It has been five and a half years since the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care was established to investigate the abuse of children, young people, and vulnerable adults within state and faith-based institutions. Yesterday, the final report - Whanaketia through pain and trauma, from darkness to light ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to take action off the back of the International Court of Justice ruling on Israel’s illegal occupation of Palestine. ...
On Friday the International Court of Justice reaffirmed what Palestinian’s have been telling us for decades: that the occupation and colonisation of Palestinian lands by Israel is illegal and must end immediately. They also called for reparations for Palestinian’s who have lived under Israeli occupation since it began in 1967. ...
Labour calls on the Government to act after the International Court of Justice (ICJ) ruled that Israel’s occupation of Palestinian Territories is illegal. ...
The 53.7 percent rise in benefit sanctions over the last year is more proof of this Government’s disdain for our communities most in need of support. ...
Aotearoa could be a country where every child grows up feeling safe, loved and with a sense of belonging in their whānau and community. But for some of our children, this is far from reality. Instead, they are trapped in a maze of intergenerational harm that they can’t escape on ...
Te Pāti Māori are calling for David Seymour to resign as Associate Health Minister in response to his call for Pharmac to ignore the Treaty of Waitangi. “This announcement is just another example of the government’s anti-Tiriti, anti-Māori agenda.” Said Co-leader and spokesperson for health, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer. “Seymour thinks it ...
The soaring price of renting is driving the rise of inflation in this country - with latest figures from Stats NZ showing rents are up 4.8 per cent on average while annual inflation is at 3.3 per cent. ...
National’s Emissions Reduction Plan will take New Zealand further from the economy we need to ensure the next generation has a stable climate and secure livelihoods. ...
Following consultation with named parties and thorough consideration of privacy interests, the Green Party is in a position to release the Executive Summary of the final report from the independent investigation into Darleen Tana. ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon should be asking serious questions of his Minister for Resources Shane Jones now it’s been revealed he misled the public about a dinner with mining companies that he didn’t declare and said wasn’t pre-arranged. ...
Te Pāti Māori have submitted to the Justice Select Committee against the Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill. The bill will further entrench racism in our justice system and fails to focus on rehabilitation. “Reinstating Three Strikes will empower a systematically racist system and exacerbate the overrepresentation of Māori in ...
The Transport and Infrastructure Committee is set to make a determination on the Residential Tenancies Amendment (RTA) Bill in the coming weeks. “This legislation will give landlords the power to kick our whānau out onto the street for no reason” said Housing spokesperson, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “Their solution to the housing ...
“National’s campaign was about tackling crime and the best they can do is a two-year long Ministerial Advisory Group,” Labour justice spokesperson Duncan Webb said. ...
“There are more examples of charter schools failing their students than there are success stories. The coalition Government is driving to dismantle our public school system and instead promote a privatised, competitive structure that puts profits before kids,” Jan Tinetti said. ...
“This government is choosing to deliberately mislead and withhold information, keeping our people in the dark about this government’s agenda and the future of our mokopuna,” said co-leader and spokesperson for Health, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer. The call comes after the demand from the Chief Ombudsman that Associate Minister of Health, Casey ...
“Today’s climate announcement by Simon Watts makes clear the National Government is simply paying lip service to meeting its climate change targets,” Megan Woods said. ...
National is choosing to make life harder for workers by taking away the rights our communities have fought hard for. Here's how they’re taking workers backwards. ...
Australia, Canada and New Zealand today issued the following statement on the need for an urgent ceasefire in Gaza and the risk of expanded conflict between Hizballah and Israel. The situation in Gaza is catastrophic. The human suffering is unacceptable. It cannot continue. We remain unequivocal in our condemnation of ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today reminded all State and faith-based institutions of their legal obligation to preserve records relevant to the safety and wellbeing of those in its care. “The Abuse in Care Inquiry’s report has found cases where records of the most vulnerable people in State and faith‑based institutions were ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says the Government’s online safety website for children and young people has reached one million page views. “It is great to see so many young people and their families accessing the site Keep It Real Online to learn how to stay safe online, and manage ...
Tēnā tātou katoa, Ngā mihi te rangi, ngā mihi te whenua, ngā mihi ki a koutou, kia ora mai koutou. Thank you for the opportunity to be here and the invitation to speak at this 50th anniversary conference. I acknowledge all those who have gone before us and paved the ...
New Zealand’s payroll providers have successfully prepared to ensure 3.5 million individuals will, from Wednesday next week, be able to keep more of what they earn each pay, says Finance Minister Nicola Willis and Revenue Minister Simon Watts. “The Government's tax policy changes are legally effective from Wednesday. Delivering this tax ...
An experimental vineyard which will help futureproof the wine sector has been opened in Blenheim by Associate Regional Development Minister Mark Patterson. The covered vineyard, based at the New Zealand Wine Centre – Te Pokapū Wāina o Aotearoa, enables controlled environmental conditions. “The research that will be produced at the Experimental ...
The Coalition Government has confirmed the indicative regional breakdown of North Island Weather Event (NIWE) funding for state highway recovery projects funded through Budget 2024, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Regions in the North Island suffered extensive and devastating damage from Cyclone Gabrielle and the 2023 Auckland Anniversary Floods, and ...
Indonesia’s Foreign Minister, Retno Marsudi, will visit New Zealand next week, Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced. “Indonesia is important to New Zealand’s security and economic interests and is our closest South East Asian neighbour,” says Mr Peters, who is currently in Laos to engage with South East Asian partners. ...
He aha te kai a te rangatira? He kōrero, he kōrero, he kōrero. The government has reaffirmed its commitment to supporting the aspirations of Ngāti Maniapoto, Minister for Māori Development Tama Potaka says. “My thanks to Te Nehenehenui Trust – Ngāti Maniapoto for bringing their important kōrero to a ministerial ...
Transport Minister Simeon Brown has thanked outgoing Chair of the Civil Aviation Authority, Janice Fredric, for her service to the board.“I have received Ms Fredric’s resignation from the role of Chair of the Civil Aviation Authority,” Mr Brown says.“On behalf of the Government, I want to thank Ms Fredric for ...
The Government is proposing legislation to overturn a Court of Appeal decision and amend the Marine and Coastal Area Act in order to restore Parliament’s test for Customary Marine Title, Treaty Negotiations Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “Section 58 required an applicant group to prove they have exclusively used and occupied ...
Regulation Minister David Seymour says that opposition parties have united in bad faith, opposing what they claim are ‘dangerous changes’ to the Early Childhood Education sector, despite no changes even being proposed yet. “Issues with affordability and availability of early childhood education, and the complexity of its regulation, has led ...
After receiving more than 740 submissions in the first 20 days, Regulation Minister David Seymour is asking the Ministry for Regulation to extend engagement on the early childhood education regulation review by an extra two weeks. “The level of interest has been very high, and from the conversations I’ve been ...
The Coalition Government is investing $802.9 million into the Wairarapa and Manawatū rail lines as part of a funding agreement with the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA), KiwiRail, and the Greater Wellington and Horizons Regional Councils to deliver more reliable services for commuters in the lower North Island, Transport Minister Simeon ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced his intention to appoint a Crown Manager to both Hawke’s Bay Regional and Wairoa District Councils to speed up the delivery of flood protection work in Wairoa."Recent severe weather events in Wairoa this year, combined with damage from Cyclone Gabrielle in 2023 have ...
Mr Speaker, this is a day that many New Zealanders who were abused in State care never thought would come. It’s the day that this Parliament accepts, with deep sorrow and regret, the Report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care. At the heart of this report are the ...
For the first time, the Government is formally acknowledging some children and young people at Lake Alice Psychiatric Hospital experienced torture. The final report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in State and Faith-based Care “Whanaketia – through pain and trauma, from darkness to light,” was tabled in Parliament ...
The Government has acknowledged the nearly 2,400 courageous survivors who shared their experiences during the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse in State and Faith-Based Care. The final report from the largest and most complex public inquiry ever held in New Zealand, the Royal Commission Inquiry “Whanaketia – through ...
With a week to go before hard-working New Zealanders see personal income tax relief for the first time in fourteen years, 513,000 people have used the Budget tax calculator to see how much they will benefit, says Finance Minister Nicola Willis. “Tax relief is long overdue. From next Wednesday, personal income ...
Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden says a bill that has passed its first reading will improve parental leave settings and give non-biological parents more flexibility as primary carer for their child. The Regulatory Systems Amendment Bill (No3), passed its first reading this morning. “It includes a change ...
Two Bills designed to improve regulation and make it easier to do business have passed their first reading in Parliament, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. The Regulatory Systems (Economic Development) Amendment Bill and Regulatory Systems (Immigration and Workforce) Amendment Bill make key changes to legislation administered by the Ministry ...
New legislation paves the way for greater competition in sectors such as banking and electricity, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly says. “Competitive markets boost productivity, create employment opportunities and lift living standards. To support competition, we need good quality regulation but, unfortunately, a recent OECD report ranked New ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says lotteries for charitable purposes, such as those run by the Heart Foundation, Coastguard NZ, and local hospices, will soon be allowed to operate online permanently. “Under current laws, these fundraising lotteries are only allowed to operate online until October 2024, after which ...
The Coalition Government is accelerating work on the new four-lane expressway between Auckland and Whangārei as part of its Roads of National Significance programme, with an accelerated delivery model to deliver this project faster and more efficiently, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “For too long, the lack of resilient transport connections ...
Sir Don McKinnon will travel to Viet Nam this week as a Special Envoy of the Government, Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced. “It is important that the Government give due recognition to the significant contributions that General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong made to New Zealand-Viet Nam relations,” Mr ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says newly appointed Commissioner, Grant Illingworth KC, will help deliver the report for the first phase of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into COVID-19 Lessons, due on 28 November 2024. “I am pleased to announce that Mr Illingworth will commence his appointment as ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters travels to Laos this week to participate in a series of Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN)-led Ministerial meetings in Vientiane. “ASEAN plays an important role in supporting a peaceful, stable and prosperous Indo-Pacific,” Mr Peters says. “This will be our third visit to ...
Construction of a new mental health facility at Te Nikau Grey Hospital in Greymouth is today one step closer, Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey says. “This $27 million facility shows this Government is delivering on its promise to boost mental health care and improve front line services,” Mr Doocey says. ...
New Zealand is committing nearly $50 million to a package supporting sustainable Pacific fisheries development over the next four years, Foreign Minister Winston Peters and Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones announced today. “This support consisting of a range of initiatives demonstrates New Zealand’s commitment to assisting our Pacific partners ...
Associate Education Minister David Seymour says proposed changes to the Education and Training Amendment Bill will ensure charter schools have more flexibility to negotiate employment agreements and are equipped with the right teaching resources. “Cabinet has agreed to progress an amendment which means unions will not be able to initiate ...
In response to serious concerns around oversight, overspend and a significant deterioration in financial outlook, the Board of Health New Zealand will be replaced with a Commissioner, Health Minister Dr Shane Reti announced today. “The previous government’s botched health reforms have created significant financial challenges at Health NZ that, without ...
Minister for Space and Science, Innovation and Technology Judith Collins will travel to Adelaide tomorrow for space and science engagements, including speaking at the Australian Space Forum. While there she will also have meetings and visits with a focus on space, biotechnology and innovation. “New Zealand has a thriving space ...
Climate Change Minister Simon Watts will travel to China on Saturday to attend the Ministerial on Climate Action meeting held in Wuhan. “Attending the Ministerial on Climate Action is an opportunity to advocate for New Zealand climate priorities and engage with our key partners on climate action,” Mr Watts says. ...
Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is travelling to the Solomon Islands tomorrow for meetings with his counterparts from around the Pacific supporting collective management of the region’s fisheries. The 23rd Pacific Islands Forum Fisheries Committee and the 5th Regional Fisheries Ministers’ Meeting in Honiara from 23 to 26 July ...
The Government today launched the Military Style Academy Pilot at Te Au rere a te Tonga Youth Justice residence in Palmerston North, an important part of the Government’s plan to crackdown on youth crime and getting youth offenders back on track, Minister for Children, Karen Chhour said today. “On the ...
The Government has welcomed news the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) has begun work to replace nine priority bridges across the country to ensure our state highway network remains resilient, reliable, and efficient for road users, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.“Increasing productivity and economic growth is a key priority for the ...
Acting Prime Minister David Seymour has been in contact throughout the evening with senior officials who have coordinated a whole of government response to the global IT outage and can provide an update. The Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet has designated the National Emergency Management Agency as the ...
New Zealand and Japan will continue to step up their shared engagement with the Pacific, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “New Zealand and Japan have a strong, shared interest in a free, open and stable Pacific Islands region,” Mr Peters says. “We are pleased to be finding more ways ...
New developments in the heart of North Island forestry country will reinvigorate their communities and boost economic development, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones visited Kaingaroa and Kawerau in Bay of Plenty today to open a landmark community centre in the former and a new connecting road in ...
President Adeang, fellow Ministers, honourable Diet Member Horii, Ambassadors, distinguished guests. Minasama, konnichiwa, and good afternoon, everyone. Distinguished guests, it’s a pleasure to be here with you today to talk about New Zealand’s foreign policy reset, the reasons for it, the values that underpin it, and how it ...
Last summer when Matairangi burned, Ginny and Tom stood at the window of their lounge, watching kākā shoot skyward from the burning trees. From the distance, they looked to Ginny like pages torn from books and thrown into a bonfire. It was Tom, voice tight, who told her it was ...
Opinion: The Canadian short story writer Alice Munro – winner of the Nobel Prize in Literature in 2013 – died in May at the age of 92. Her work was about “the damage people inflict on one another in the name of love”, Deborah Treisman wrote in the New Yorker. ...
This month marks two years since the most powerful telescope ever built sent its first pictures back to earth. From its lofty vantage point, beyond the moon in orbit around the sun, the James Webb Space Telescope was tuned to observe the first stars and galaxies being born soon after ...
Comment: After Climate Change Minister Simon Watts’ preview several weeks ago, I had some optimism about the Government’s emissions reduction plan. Now I’ve read the discussion document, that hope has been dashed. How can the Government propose a plan that wants to take New Zealand taxpayers’ hard-earned money, and spend ...
Christopher Luxon: hurdles The little man from National jumps hurdles in his sleep. He’s quite good at it in his dreams and even though the reality doesn’t quite match up you have to give him credit for getting up every morning and crashing into the very first hurdle of the ...
Comment: It was a good two hours into the conversation when Tyrone Marks raised the most basic of questions when I first spoke to him in 2017. “They didn’t explain the things they did to me. They never told me why. And they still haven’t. There’s no explanation for it. ...
Madeleine Chapman rounds out Death Week on The Spinoff with a final recommendation. You can read all of our Death Week coverage here. Nothing forces you to reflect on your life and relationships quite like proximity to death. For those whose nearest and dearest have died, there are reasonably obvious ...
Whitney Greene takes us through her life in television, including the TV character she’d like to plan a funeral for and her cow lung catastrophe on The Traitors NZ. “If the phone rings, I have to answer it,” Whitney Greene from The Traitors NZ warns as we begin our My ...
Maddie Ballard reviews the debut essay collection of Pōneke writer Flora Feltham.In ‘The Raw Material’, the longest essay in Flora Feltham’s dazzling debut collection, the author heads out for a run after hours of weaving and sees the world turn to textile. “Pounding along the Parade, I saw the ...
Andy Christiansen, one half of the experimental rock-pop duo TRiPS, shares the tunes inspiring the band’s perfect weekend and new release. “Good speakers, good food, good music, no distractions”: that’s all you need to enjoy the psychedelic stylings of TRiPS, a new band formed by Fly My Pretties’ Barnaby Weir ...
Celebrating our quadrennial opportunity to become experts in a bunch of sports we never normally watch.The games of the XXXIII Olympiad are upon us. Paris will host this year’s showcase of sporting and athletic prowess, which means some late-night and early-morning viewing for us in Aotearoa.But what sports ...
The photograph is striking and beautiful, but also disturbing – a reminder that my love for John was often entangled in shame.The Sunday Essay is made possible thanks to the support of Creative New Zealand.In the spring of 1980, in Dunedin, shortly before his death, someone took a photograph ...
Get to know Babushka, our latest Dog of the Month. This feature was offered as a reward during our What’s Eating Aotearoa PledgeMe campaign. Thank you to Babu’s humans, Jo and Isabel, for their support. Dog name: Babushka (Babu for short) Age: 2Breed: Border Collie X poodleIf rescued, ...
Pacific Media Watch A Lebanese photojournalist who was severely wounded during an Israeli air strike in south Lebanon carried the Olympic torch in Paris this week in honour of her peers who have been wounded and killed in the field — especially in Gaza and Lebanon. Christina Assi of Agence ...
The first report in a five-part web series focused on the 15th Triennial Conference of Pacific Women taking place in the Marshall Islands this week.SPECIAL REPORT:By Netani Rika in Majuro Women continue to fight for justice 70 years after the first nuclear tests by the United States caused ...
Christopher Luxon has joined with Australia and Canada's leaders in voicing support for US President Joe Biden's ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra The 2022 election brought the “teal wave” into parliament. The next election will test whether teals, who occupy what were Liberal seats, and other independents can maintain their momentum. Joining us on the Podcast ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ian Musgrave, Senior lecturer in Pharmacology, University of Adelaide Pixavri/Shutterstock A major Federal Court class action has been dismissed this week after Justice Michael Lee ruled there was not enough evidence to prove the weedkiller Roundup causes cancer. Plaintiff Kelvin ...
In The Week in Politics: politicians have to decide what to do about child abuse, Health NZ is booked in for major surgery and Darleen Tana returns. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Clare Corbould, Associate Professor, Contemporary Histories Research Group, Deakin University Mainstream media are surprisingly muted at the prospect of the world’s most powerful nation being led for the first time by a woman – specifically a woman of colour, Vice President Kamala ...
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The Abuse in Care report found many Pacific survivors lost their connections to their culture and language, resulting in trauma that has been carried from generation to generation. ...
In the regulatory review, ECC intends to suggest that ERO focus on curriculum delivery reviews rather than the Ministry, because it’s not efficient or effective to have two agencies with radically different approaches climbing over each other. ...
Te Rūnanga Nui o Ngā Kura Kaupapa Māori invites the current government to work in partnership with them to develop a pathway forward, including the development of a parallel pathway and meaningful policy and strategy for Kura Kaupapa Māori ...
If you haven’t started watching yet, Tara Ward begs you to reconsider. This is an excerpt from our weekly pop culture newsletter Rec Room. Sign up here. In the world of New Zealand reality television, we have many gems in our crown. There’s the delicious second season of the Celebrity Treasure ...
A new poem by Fiona Kidman. The clothes of the dead I did not keep my mother’s furry red beret for long nor the stringy scarves that adorned the necks of my aunts, although I have kept tag ends of gold, the rings and trinkets they wore, the brooches no ...
The government’s announcement that it will re-open the foreshore and seabed controversy by changing the rules on recognising centuries-old Māori customary title for a third time goes against the rule of law and New Zealand values,” Mr Tipa says. ...
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A law firm that specialises in working with survivors of abuse in State care is disappointed that the Government fails to recognise that its boot camps can be directly compared to previous boot camps from the 1990s and 2000s. ...
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Yesterday I listened to an interview. It was a nurse in Utah saying that there is pressure to note cause of death as Covid 19. For example, she talked about someone in a hospice being tested for Covid and that being put down as the cause of death.
https://www.intellihub.com/icu-nurse-whistleblower-covid-19-is-a-manufactured-crisis/
In NYC, supposedly death central, one of the symptoms is fizzing of the skin/buzzing, which seems decidedly unvirus like. https://nypost.com/2020/04/10/coronavirus-patients-report-strange-new-symptom-fizzing/
The dramatic images of Hart Island burials in NYC…it turns out that in a normal year they bury around 2000 people there. The picture suggests something dramatic but it could be BAU.
Don't believe anything about this stupid virus.
1.76 million infected and 108,000 deaths…..these figures would probably be double or triple that but for lockdowns….haven't you been listening to the scientists Mr. A?
these figures would probably be double or triple that but for lockdowns
Iceland isn't in lockdown and yet their CFR is about the same as for seasonal flu. Also, you've taken no account of the costs of lockdown. What if the costs outweigh the benefits?
I'm guessing you are losing money due to the lockdown Ross?
Indeed. I would speculate that Ross is all right with everybody else's parents and grandparents dying so that his business can make a tidy profit this year. After all, he's got his eye on a new boat, or maybe a new Audi.
I would speculate that Ross is all right with everybody else's parents and grandparents dying so that his business can make a tidy profit this year. After all, he's got his eye on a new boat, or maybe a new Audi.
That's just weird and I think you'll find your comment isn't consistent with the terms and conditions of this site. 🙂
I reckon he's a funeral director.
Either that or they don't have anybody in their family over 70.
I have a nephew that recently finished his doctor training and was doing his first stints in hospitals in France. He has got COVID-19, along with his mother.
My cousin and her husband are doctors in Salt Lake City. Right now they are doing extended shifts, he in emergency, she in respiratory intensive care. They were scheduled to have leave right now for their recent baby, but now have to carefully juggle their extended shifts.
If you are trying to suggest that our government has over-reacted, or that somehow this isn't a genuine global health crisis that justifies the extreme measures being taken, you can FUCK RIGHT OFF.
October 2019, Bill Gates staged "Event 201" to play out the world’s most likely response to a "fictional" global viral outbreak. Millions died.
What a coincidence.
It's kinda funny that I was the first to warn about this virus on this site…and had similar reactions (although fuck off written in bold is new). It's ok. I will leave. Eventually you will see this for what it is – a set up based on deliberately flawed testing.
Bye now… And please don't come back, because it's giving me RSI scrolling past all your scientifically illiterate drivel.
Dude, it's not a competition.
You didn't warn us A. We already knew and we recognised the seriousness of a pandemic in the making. Apart from acknowledging the situation as we understood it to be back then, we kept our counsel and left it to the scientists – the real scientists that is, and not the pseudo scientists – to keep us informed.
Perhaps Anne you could tell me exactly how one tells if a particular scientist is real or pseudo?
Because up until the last few days the 'real' doctors have been saying that ventilators are the preferred protocol for patients presenting with low oxygen saturation levels. Now, with 80% of ventilated patients dying that protocol is being revised.
That's the problem with Science Anne, it changes and adjusts according to new information and applied research…real life experience…
Otherwise it would be dogma.
Last Saturday on RNZ just after the 9 am news Chris Smith a virologist either from the UK or the US had a lot to say on Covid -19 and covered ICU treatment.
A thing called a eco vent is being touted as being better than a ventilator.
RMcD
Surely you have answered your own question there? Authentic science is that which changes to fit the evidence, whereas pseudo science maintains its claims in the face of evidence.
There are also issues of; falsibility, replicability, Occam's Razor & the Sagan Balance. But the core is that any scientific conclusion is always provisional pending new evidence.
Well, since my former career was in one of the sciences, I think I might be able to tell the difference between a real scientist and a pseudo scientist.
The picture suggests something dramatic but it could be BAU.
Approximately 25,000 Italian people died of the seasonal flu in 2016/17. About 68,000 Italian people died from the season flu between 2013-2017. I must confess I don't recall the headlines about these numbers at the time. I suspect there were none.
Many people are probably unaware that in New Zealand, about 500 people die from the flu each year. If 500 were to die from Covid-19, we'd hear about it ad nauseum.
In Iceland, the CFR is apparently similar to that for flu.
"While the case fatality rate (CFR) of 2019-nCoV, the virus that causes COVID19, remains unknown, recently published figures likely overestimate the true rate. Previous reviews of H1N1, MERS, and SARS highlight the difficulty of early estimation of CFR of novel viruses related to an absence of consensus on defining and measuring incidences and severities of infection….As with other epidemics, the final CFR for COVID-19 will likely be significantly lower than both the currently reported rates, and those announced in the coming weeks."
https://www.bmj.com/content/368/bmj.m606/rr-5
https://slate.com/technology/2020/03/coronavirus-mortality-rate-lower-than-we-think.html
https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/68ZG5SYcRQ5q8F7QR/iceland-s-covid-19-random-sampling-results-c19-similar-to
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11873058
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971219303285
Only a thousand people die, instead of 500.
All good then.
By the way Connecticut, with 3.6 million people, already have over 400 dead and the number of cases are still rising exponentially.
And. Their economy is still fucked.
All the counter-arguments are essentially the same thing:
"We don't need to be taking all these measures, because actually the numbers aren't that high, because we're taking all these measures."
There is no arguing with that skewed logic.
Approximately 25,000 Italian people died of the seasonal flu in 2016/17.
So, if flu's causing around 12,000 deaths a year in Italy it doesn't matter that 20,000 have died of COVID-19 so far this year despite a complete lock-down of the country and there was really no point to the lock-down or all the fuss about avoiding infection? Good luck selling that idea to anyone who isn't a complete fucking idiot.
Good luck selling that idea
I'm not a psychiatrist – I wouldn't attempt to sell ideas to those with a closed mind. I'll leave that to Dr Knut Kittkowski but, like you say, I suspect he's pushing shit uphill.
JOHN: And so, what do you make of the policy that was enacted in the United States and England and most places throughout the world, this policy of containment, shelter-in-place, etc.? What’s your opinion of it?
WITTKOWSKI: Well, what people are trying to do is flatten the curve. I don’t really know why. But, what happens is if you flatten the curve, you also prolong, to widen it, and it takes more time. And I don’t see a good reason for a respiratory disease to stay in the population longer than necessary
JOHN: And what do you say to people who just say, “We just didn’t know about the lethality of this virus and it was the smartest thing to do, to do what we did, and contain everybody, because we just didn’t have the data.”
WITTKOWSKI: We had two other SARS viruses before. Or, coronaviruses. It’s not the first coronavirus that comes out, and it won’t be the last. And for all respiratory diseases, we have the same type of an epidemic. If you leave it alone, it comes for two weeks, it peaks, and it goes for two weeks and it’s gone.
https://ratical.org/PerspectivesOnPandemic-II.html
Dr Knut
Is somebody taking the piss?
https://www.linkedin.com/in/knutmwittkowski
Knut is an oldfashioned German male name. Yes it is.
So there has been many German knuts. I'm convinced.
Yes. It is a fairly common name especially to the east and the north.
Judging by his last name i would say that originally his family hails from the East Coast in Germany – or oldfashioned Bohemia.
A bit like Dick is a name in english. 🙂
Yes, there are many english dicks.
Mind the dude could be called Knut Focker 🙂 now that would be something.
Stop it at once Sabine. You are reminding me of a dreadful old joke from long, long ago.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Jokes/comments/1u11t9/an_raf_vet_is_giving_a_talk_about_the_war/
Screeeeeeaaaaam.
NZ's first PM was a Dick…
Very, very good Sabine.
"Dick" indeed.🙄
Wasn't Knut that ancient king who couldn't stop the tide coming in. What a co-incidence.
Joking aside, I think PM was wrong in halving the 25,000 number. The Flu season in Italy is winter – it lasts from, say November 2016 through to March 2017. So that is like a summer season here. We would talk about the 2016-17 summer, and that would be just one season, not 2 whole years.
Canute was the subject of story written centuries later. Doubtful that it had any real historical basis (he was Viking king of Norway and England, so you have to assume he did get his feet wet sometimes):
Sick of his warlords proclaiming him as Cnut the Great, and suggesting new places to invade and plunder (rather than consolidating what power he had). Canute ordered his throne to be carried to the seashore and theatrically demanded the tide to stop coming in while being drenched by the rising tide.
He then proclaimed to hisminions that even a King's power had its limits. Then took his crown off and hung it on a crucifix for the rest of his reign. Christian propoganda in other words.
The name Knut went to England with the Angles and Saxons, too. Most English speakers are familar with King Canute, for example.
a name used in many places
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knut
And NOT pronounced like the English word 'nut', either…
Sounds like an appropriate name for someone standing against the tide (of medical opinion).
Who is this guy witt…..
‘If you leave it alone, it comes for two weeks, it peaks, and it goes for two weeks and it’s gone.
HA GONE means DEAD!!!
<i>…what people are trying to do is flatten the curve. I don’t really know why. </i>
Fortunately, most other people do know why, which explains the general lack of acceptance of Kittkowski's views among his colleagues.
Classic argument from ignorance – common in narcissists (along with magical thinking):
A/ "Everything is about me"
B/ "I am not capable of (or chose not to) understanding this thing"
Therefore that thing is not real.
Trawling the Internet for snippets that can be presented as supporting your conspiracy theory might make you feel better but is neither useful nor persuasive for anyone else.
In reality, the COVID-19 death rate will be higher than is being reported, because some people are dying at home rather than hospital and not being tested via autopsy. From your comment yesterday(?) it looks like you're peddling this bullshit as part of a more general anit-vaxxer delusion. In situations like this, anti-vaxxer bullshit is even less welcome than usual.
In reality, the COVID-19 death rate will be higher than is being reported
Unlikely. In Iceland, 50% of those with the virus don't know they have it as they lack any symptoms. The numbers with the virus will be higher than reported which means a lower CFR.
In Italy, only one person aged under 20 has died. Some 95% of deaths are aged 60 and over. Most flu deaths are in the elderly population.
From your comment yesterday(?) it looks like you're peddling this bullshit as part of a more general anit-vaxxer delusion.
I'd recommend a lie down and a cup of tea.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1105061/coronavirus-deaths-by-region-in-italy/
Iceland has a population of 300,000 (???), what a tiny place.
Iceland is basically Hamilton with more inbreeding.
Hey, don't you criticise our inbreeding!
Ross you sound like a total sociopath! You are fine with 17, 916 people dying in one country (according to your own numbers current to yesterday), because only one of them was under 20?
Also, due to the health care system being clogged with infectious adults. People user 20 are dying from usually preventable causes. But these are not counted as being directly caused by the Crow's talons:
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642(20)30108-5/fulltext
Ross you sound like a total sociopath! You are fine with 17, 916 people dying in one country (according to your own numbers current to yesterday), because only one of them was under 20?
You may need to read what I wrote again. I think you’ll find that nowhere did I say or imply that I was jumping for joy at people dying. I did say that only one person in Italy in a particular cohort had died from the virus, and of course Dr Kittkowski had made the point that elderly people needed to take precautions.
due to the health care system being clogged with infectious adults. People user 20 are dying from usually preventable causes
That's true although the article you cite states that parents didn't want to inconvenience their local health provider or were concerned their child may, by going to hospital, contract the virus. Similar decision-making may have also occurred during previous flu epidemics. Were the parents aware of the very low risk of contracting and dying from the virus? If they were aware, they may have acted more quickly to get medical treatment.
Ross
You are not worth the effort. Even with nothing else to do, trying to convince you of anything is a bigger waste of time than simply staring at the walls as they close in around me.
Have the last word if you want.
Perhaps Iceland's cold climate is a mitigating factor. I have heard that people working in Antarctica don't get colds, so perhaps viruses don't fare so well in low temperatures.
Approx 8.40 am this morning on RNZ a virologist (I think) raised that cooler temperatures are not good as Covid-19 stays around longer with moisture. I was not listening that carefully.
The thinking was on the climatic zones,where community transfer is more likely.
Findings: To date, Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19), caused by SARS-CoV-2, has established significant community spread in cities and regions along a narrow east west distribution roughly along the 30-50o N’ corridor at consistently similar weather patterns consisting of average temperatures of 5-11oC, combined with low specific (3-6 g/kg) and absolute humidity (4-7 g/m3). There has been a lack of significant community establishment in expected locations that are based only on population proximity and extensive population interaction through travel.
Interpretation: The distribution of significant community outbreaks along restricted latitude, temperature, and humidity are consistent with the behavior of a seasonal respiratory virus. Additionally, we have proposed a simplified model that shows a zone at increased risk for COVID-19 spread. Using weather modeling, it may be possible to predict the regions most likely to be at higher risk of significant community spread of COVID-19 in the upcoming weeks, allowing for concentration of public health efforts on surveillance and containment.
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3550308
Copernicus (eu climate models) has an observational model for the areas at risk.
https://cds.climate.copernicus.eu/apps/c3s/app-c3s-monthly-climate-covid-19-explorer
I will read the paper.
The energy payment is a wise idea as it will save lives. I know that there are people out there who live in drafty conditions (or worse) and will struggle to pay the power.
I know people who have to go without power during the present,it would be a good moment to bring the winter payment foreward.
It also stops people getting the flu which can clog the hospitals as well.
The numbers with the virus will be higher than reported which means a lower CFR.
Thank you. Yes, I should have referred to number of deaths, rather than death rate. That's still a lot of people whose lives A airily dismisses, more so when you consider how many would be dying if this "so what it's hardly worse than the flu" fuckwittery were accepted by governments.
In Italy, only one person aged under 20 has died. Some 95% of deaths are aged 60 and over. Most flu deaths are in the elderly population.
Ah, the "useless eaters" argument. That's some ugly, ugly shit you're peddling there, dudebro.
Ah, the "useless eaters" argument.
You couldn't be more wrong. Is Dr Kittkowski saying that we should sacrifice the elderly, or that they were going to die anyway? In fact, he seems to be saying the opposite. But he is also saying that lockdown isn't the right approach.
Everbody godda die some time Red.
And some of the dead will be mourned, while others won't.
I didn't quote Kittkowski making the "useless eaters" argument, I quoted you making it. It's an implied argument in that the only context in which your statement would make sense is in an argument that, because the disease is fatal mostly for the elderly, who are going to die soon anyway, drastic measures like lock-downs aren't necessary. That's a "useless eaters" argument, ie it's premised on the lives of the elderly not mattering.
Still, I can see this is going to head the same way as your comments on climate change: you make an implied argument, people point out your argument is shit, you respond by claiming you never argued that in the first place, resulting in demands for you to state clearly what you arguing, which you then don't respond to.
It'll be interesting to see what the statistics are for deaths from flu in NZ for this year.
Normally about 500 people die from flu, mostly elderly, and high proportion of Maori and Pacific people.
So, with the lock down, the amount of social isolation, and the increase in people getting flu jabs, I would expect the number to be lower than usual.
Also, it's useful to compare that flu death rate, with the projected death rate if we hadn't had early lock down?
Auckland university modelling shows without lock down, up to 80,000 NZers could die of C-19.
The other issue with the flu comparison is that it's comparing two diseases that are broadly similar in infectiousness and CFR, but we have vaccines against the flu variants.
So sure, 500 a year if we had a vaccine for it. One of the outcomes predicted weeks (a lifetime) ago was that covid vaccines come in and the "flu season" becomes the "covid-flu season".
As it is, though, without a lockdown we'd be looking at dozens if not hundreds of dead already.
Carolyn
A figure of 80k deaths is fanciful. Iceland doesn’t have a lockdown. There have been seven deaths there from the virus. Scaremongering isn’t helpful and possibly explains why the parents of some children are reluctant to take their sick kids for medical treatment.
Iceland has had twice the number of deaths as NZ with less than 10% of our population and they have in place the equivalent about our level 3 response…a dispersed population of 300,000 and you may take that chance…personally i think theyve wasted the opportunity that we didnt
80k was the higher end estimate, but also an estimate of the full course of the disease. Comparing it with Iceland's current rate is (and I'm really trying to cast the best possible light on your motivations here) incredibly stupid.
Also, Iceland has 8 dead in a total population of 360k. That would be something like 100 dead in NZ's population.
Additionally, Iceland is only slightly short of a lockdown, banning groups of more than 20. So their intervention isn't quire as extreme, and their results aren't quite as good.
Quibble about 80k as if it were the only estimate ever made, nobody cares. We have but to look at the US and Europe to know lockdown is not an "if" but a when", and we can chose to implement it to avoid as many deaths as possible as soon as community transmission was evident.
Also, Iceland has 8 dead in a total population of 360k. That would be something like 100 dead in NZ's population.
Yes, 100 deaths would be one fifth of those killed by flu each year in NZ, and you've ignored the benefits of no lockdown. Presumably, there are benefits otherwise Iceland wouldn’t have gone down that path.
Quibble about 80k as if it were the only estimate ever made, nobody cares.
I suspect parents frightened to take their sick kids to hospital care. A medical expert on the TV news tonight stated that parents with sick kids shouldn't hesitate to take their sick kids to hospital. That message should've been stated ad nauseum prior to the lockdown coming into effect and throughout its existence. I cannot find that message on the Government's Covid 19 website. Instead its advice includes: "If you have COVID-19, or you’re feeling unwell, it’s critical you stay at home and recover" and "If a child or carer becomes unwell, they must stay at home” Staying at home is the overriding message, terrible advice if you have a child needing urgent medical attention.
That was a hundred deaths in a few weeks, not in a full year.
As for messaging, yes it's a balance between the thousands of dead without that messaging (even if it's not 80,000 dead, it would still leave the flu way behind) and current health issues. But I don't get the impression you care either way.
I note you take the most extreme figure possible. You use it to infer "scaremongering". Its nothing of the sort. Its a mathematical conclusion based on known evidence. There is [ultimately] a chance the virus could kill 80,000 people in NZ if no action was taken to contain the virus.
The individuals – including parents – who are not seeking medical assistance are doing so out of misinformation or ignorance. They are either lacking in cognitive understanding or listening to the wrong people who play on their ignorance.
Unfortunately you can’t legislate against ‘stupid’.
I note you take the most extreme figure possible. You use it to infer "scaremongering". Its nothing of the sort. Its a mathematical conclusion based on known evidence. There is [ultimately] a chance the virus could kill 80,000 people in NZ if no action was taken to contain the virus.
Carolyn mentioned the figure and I responded to her. Yes, 80,000 people could die if various extreme assumptions prove correct and if we ignore what's happening in countries like Iceland. Now that we know what's happening in the real world, I'd expect the modellers to modify their dire predictions.
In Scandinavia sweden is the only country not in lockdown,and the only country with a current rise in cases.
https://twitter.com/yaneerbaryam/status/1249145735301521409
It has around twice our population,9 times the recorded cases and 300 x the recorded deaths.
Following the links to the actual research, a report by the researchers mentions tens of thousands of deaths – 20,000 or 80,000, our health system would be overwhelmed.
More details of the research here if you want to quibble about it.
It will be interesting to look at excess deaths when this is over not just deaths attributed to covid-19. In Italy …
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nembro, in the province of Bergamo, is the town most hard hit in per capita terms by COVID-19. Currently the town has 31 deaths attributed to COVID-19. But when the two authors looked at the total number of deaths registered in the town in January, February and March and compared it to the average for that period in previous years they found the number was dramatically larger. 158 deaths have been registered in the town during that period this year compared to an average of 35 in previous years.
The math is simple: the average of 35 plus the 31 COVID-19 deaths gets you to 66. But the town has recorded almost 100 more deaths on top of that. As the authors say, “The difference is enormous and cannot be a simple statistical deviation.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/this-is-very-important-from-italy-please-read
which links back to the original Italian article.
Many died from contemplating the ruination of Ross' business empire.
Yeah. Those nasal swabs they're sticking way TF up peoples noses? Well, they're swabbing SFA. They're actually inserting 5G RF mind control chips.
Fortunately Q and his QANON patriots are awake to the actions of the deeply deep deep state statists.
But you'll have to wait until Q and his QANON patriot army have finished rescuing all the tunnel tots from the Planet Pizza tunnels, completed the mass arrests of deeply deep deep state statists, reopened GitMo and begun the trials and executions.
So until then, be patient and Q will send out QANON patriot army squads of 5G chip removal experts.
///
I thought the stupid virus was what you caught.
Here come the evaluations of which country and which political system is doing a better job responding to the crisis:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/11/coronavirus-who-will-be-winners-and-losers-in-new-world-order
That piece gives most of its time to the authoritarian/democratic, or liberal/illiberal divide, with just a little bit of state capability and trust in government thrown in.
Trust in science and trust in media are almost certainly important factors as well. Here in New Zealand, I have strong doubts our government would have got buy-in for the measures taken if we didn't have trust in the media reports coming out of Italy in particular and trust in the science reports of how it would likely play out here with and without the measures taken.
"Carers forced to wash and reuse masks…."
Stuff. Sourced from Newsroom.
Nikki Mandow
A longish read, might challenge some here who like their information nibble -sized.
No wonder some of us do not have one iota of faith in the Ministry of Health or the District Health Boards.
NB the quote from a head of a community support provider.
Didn't want to be named for fear of jeopardizing supply of PPE.
This is the shit that many of us in the disability community have been living with for the past two decades.
And yes…the bastards can and do find ways to punish those who rattle the cage.
This I know from personal experience.
Kindness my arse.
A cynical tin foil hat wearer might opine that it would suit the Misery and the DHBs and ACC if a few more of those expensive -to -keep- healthy clients got the Virus and fell off their perches.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/04/12/1125227/carers-forced-to-wash-and-reuse-masks
[link added – weka]
It'd help if you could link to the piece in question.
Sorry, Alice Tectonite. Can't do that at the moment, to my extreme frustration.
I have been living in a Bus for most of the past six years and interneting has been done from a second hand laptop when wifi is available. No problem copying and pasting links. Now using Samsung phone and a tablet…laptop locked in the Bus in mechanic's yard where it went for major work prior to Lockdown. I am doing my best.
A cleverish person could just google the title and the journalist's name and find the article.
Or even better be kind and post the link for me.😉
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120973516/coronavirus-carers-forced-to-wash-and-reuse-masks-during-covid19-pandemic
Heard the same from a local disability caregiver just last week. Who also said supply of PPE does seem to depend on which agency a person works for. Her friend who works at a resthome says they have plenty of PPE. Made me wonder if they had gone to the media after reading the article, good on them if they did.
Alice, here is the article Rosemary is referring to:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120973516/coronavirus-carers-forced-to-wash-and-reuse-masks-during-covid19-pandemic
PPE supply shortfalls is one common global theme from this pandemic.
Thanks Cinny (and Sabine) for posting the link.
But Cinny…according to Uncle Ashley and his Merrie Folk at the Mystery of Health there is no shortage of PPE.
ALSO, and sorry to shout, the guidelines for what kit a carer should be using when working with clients is obviously completely wrong and has be written by a numpty MOH policy wank who has clearly never provided any level on hands on care to another live person.
And when the writer was instructed by the Misery mouthpiece to look at the revised guidelines they ended up back at the original page.
I have been forced down the MOH rabbit hole on way too many occasions over the past two decades on disability issues and this surprises me not at all.
Andrew Hall from the NZST represents largely ACC spinal injured and he's an intelligent and articulate and resourceful person who also happens to live with a spinal injury. If he's come up against brick walls, being both knowledgeable and personally incentivized, small wonder others are struggling.
I do believe it would bother them at the Misery not a jot if the frail elderly and high needs disabled featured large in the death toll. If not from The Virus de Jour but from other seasonal bugs being trucked around by overworked and poorly resourced carers.
Another whoopsie from the Ministry.
looks like a MoH fuck up to me too, all they need to do is broaden their advisory on their website. Chickens coming home to roost time, but of course it's not the managers that are wearing the shit.
Absolutely nailed it.
It is my personal view that the MOH cannot be trusted to organize a bonk in a brothel.
Despite having access to information from all parties in the process and total authority, they will find it near impossible effect actual physical connection between these parties.
A monumental cockup in all but actuality.
OTOH we could dispense with Hanlon and ascribe it to malice.
What caused me to have grave concerns about Uncle Ashley was the '…no CPR for Covid 19 positive …' message he delivered 19 .40 mins into his Friday 3rd stand up.
Haven't found a retraction from him personally yet.
Messaging much.
any idea where I can find that? RNZ don't have it on their youtube.
There is confusion over whether or not St John will perform CPR on a patient with confirmed coronavirus.
The organisation said its threshold to commence or continue resuscitation needed to change due to the risk of infection via droplets.
New guidelines on an internal document said a patient would only be resuscitated if a "primary cardiac arrest" had occurred.
According to the staff directive obtained by Stuff, the cardiac arrest had to occur after an ambulance had arrived.
Director-General of Health, Dr Ashley Bloomfield, confirmed the guidance in Friday afternoon's Government press conference.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120797659/coronavirus-st-john-wont-perform-cpr-on-patients-with-covid19-unless-primary-cardiac-arrest
what are the other times someone might need resuscitation if not a primary cardiac arrest? Blocked airway? Stopped breathing due to covid?
That article is a mess of contradictions.
It is an answer to a question at 20 minutes into the you tube video.
Bloomfield says that the ambulance service is following international best practice, that if it is a confirmed case of C-19, they wouldn't do CPR as it is aerosol based. He also said that ambulances have full PPE gear.
Following links from NZ St John ambulance site, to a UK one,
Basically, the advice is to avoid proximity to the patient's breath, cover their mouth & nose with a towel or similar, don't perform CPR through a mask, but use chest compression CPR, and a defibrillator.
"…a mess of contradictions.."
To be clear weka, you are not implying that the Mandow has written an article messy with contradictions. You are acknowledging that she has hit the nail exactly square on it's head. 😉
The whole sorry saga is a mess of contradictions and this is described with perfect accuracy in this article.
Welcome to our world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIonUUsoD_A&feature=emb_logo
I found it last night…
Googled…" no CPR for Covid 19 positive " and got the Stuff page to the clarification from StJohn which contained a link to the Friday Bloomfield stand up.
Watched until I could give a time…
I am pissed off to the max that I can't do the link thing. I can't even comment here on my Samsung tablet. This is on my phone.
Grrr.. the tech has outwitted me.
No CPR in an ambulance because it's a droplet forming procedure. What do you think they should be doing Rosemary?
Since it is highly probable that the first responders will not know if the person arresting is infected or not then the Precautionary Principle would apply and they would not risk droplet dispersion by chest pumping….anybody.
Unless they were using the Full Kit.
Then they would just carry on as usual wearing the PPE.
BUT. Uncle Ashley has persisted in the message that health professionals only need PPE if they are up close to Covid 19 positive patients.
At the same time as frontline health professionals have been begging for not only access to, but permission to wear facemasks with all patients.
Because the safest way to prevent transmission is to assume everyone is infected.
It seems to me that Uncle Ashley has been fumbling around like a virgin on his wedding night over the whole facemask issue. I really don't think he has a clue.
If, as he claims, there is not a shortage of PPE in general and facemasks in particular, then why on earth are health workers on the frontline still begging?
"Since it is highly probable that the first responders will not know if the person arresting is infected or not"
His comment was specifically about people that were known to have tested positive for cv.
"BUT. Uncle Ashley has persisted in the message that health professionals only need PPE if they are up close to Covid 19 positive patients."
Isn't CPR close up?
"If, as he claims, there is not a shortage of PPE in general and facemasks in particular, then why on earth are health workers on the frontline still begging?"
You've read the Newsroom piece, I think that explained it. I've put up a post now too, and apparently it was talked about a lot in today's briefing.
https://thestandard.org.nz/please-sort-this-out-moh
The safest and most effective method of avoiding transmission is to assume everyone is infected and act accordingly.
Which means using PPE.
At the very least masks and eye protection.
Gloves are already SOP.
Reusable gowns….under certain circumstances.
Unfortunately, all the while that frontline health workers have been begging for masks,experts with media platforms have been busy with the message that facemasks are largely useless at preventing transmission. That message is now being modified with the proviso that mask wearers need to be properly educated in appropriate use thereof.
Because, like, doctors and nurses and caregivers are just not as smart as the Science Communicator de jour.
My caregivers hadn't been trained /shrug. I've never worn a mask in a situation like this.
I'm glad that yours are, but I wouldn't be relying on that nationally.
I'm not disagreeing with you on the need (although I think there are levels of need, depending on the care needed). I just pointed out that the Newsroom piece appeared to explain the problem: DHBs are working off the MoH online advisory, which is still the old version saying home care workers mostly don't need PPE.
The solution is simple – replace "Uncle Ashley" (Dr Bloomfield) with Aunty McDonald immediately. The Covid-19 pandemic, and all future health concerns, would vanish like so much dust in the wind.
Seriously, the impression I have is that "Uncle Ashley" is doing at least a fair-to-middling job so far. It is, to be sure, a very easy job, that practically anyone could do better, but who among us would want the responsibility?
Covid-19: Ashley Bloomfield’ rise to the top – the inside story
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12324032
You really need to listen to disabled people about their experiences of the MoH. That Bloomfield is doing a good job with most of the covid management, doesn't mean there aren't gaps or the he is above criticism. The PPE is serious, no-one is yet listening to what disabled people at home are saying about this. Despite the Newsroom piece today (which the MoH would have known was coming out) the issue didn't come up even once.
Wasn’t suggesting that there aren't gaps in the management of the Covid-19 response, including gaps relating to the disabled.
I’m disappointed that people choose to mock "Uncle Ashley" and others who have the pretty thankless task of leading/fronting the response. Maybe such mockery is constructive, but more likely it's just letting off some steam during lockdown – honestly can't see what other purpose it could serve.
Keep calm and carry on.
What caused me to have grave concerns about Uncle Ashley was the '…no CPR for Covid 19 positive …' message he delivered 19 .40 mins into his Friday 3rd stand up.
I'm trying to picture the country's emergency response organisations attempting to require their staff to perform CPR on people they know have COVID-19, and no I'm not seeing it. Are you seriously under the impression that Ashley Bloomfield could or should order emergency responders to do that?
i don't think that is what has Rosemary fuming.
It is the fact that unless a test has been done you don't know when or when not a person has been or is infected with Covid, and thus this amounts to a rule where any first responder could refuse to initiate life saving measures irrespective of anything.
So if you have a car accident and need CPR you might not get it. As all of us should be considered as infected, considering that many people are asymptomatic, unless proven otherwise.
And yes, my partner the volly firefighter and his mates are still discussing this on how to actually handle this scenario should it come to pass.
The Bloomfield quote she complained about was specifically about no CPR for people who've tested positive for COVID-19. I don't see what there is to complain about with that instruction.
Situations where it's unknown whether the person has COVID-19 are different. But even there, it may be statistically highly unlikely that the person in trouble has COVID-19, but I can't see how the country can place any expectation on emergency responders that they should take that risk.
i know. But, how do you know someone has it when you get a call out?
Unless you test? How long does a test take?
By the time you tested and received that test result they are dead.
it works in a hospital environment, but not on the road and at home when you call St. John or the local Firebrigade or you have an road accident.
I guess this is why so much energy is spend on people to not go boating, mountain biking etc as simply the risk for accidents is large and then the risk to might not be able to get all of the needed first aid is also large.
If you be an unpaid St. John Volly, would you risk it?
Don't know, as I'll never be put in that situation. Time and events have proven that I'm useless in an emergency. However, I sure as hell would not expect or demand that emergency responders give me CPR during this pandemic without knowing whether I had the disease or not. I don't believe anyone else is entitled to demand that either.
Certainly appears to some blockage in the home carer field…not sure if its a deliberate failing down the chain or a supply issue at the DHB level…what the MoH is saying dosnt appear to changing the reality at the coalface in some instances….could be organisational incompetence at the contracted service provider level of course which is highly possible going on past experience.
Pat. Very possibly there is incompetence at the Contracted Providet level
However I have been astounded by the depths of ignorance displayed by MOH bureaucrats when it comes to the lived reality of high needs disability and what is required to keep those in this group alive.
Much is written in MOH:DSS documents about "enabling good lives' and 'assisting disabled people to reach their goals ', and it all sounds very kind and aspirational.
But try and get most of these policy wonks to acknowledge that for some clients 'life' cannot happen unless an able bodied person with the appropriate skills arrives every morning to provide full assistance with basic shit, shower and shave. And dressing. And transferring into wheelchair. And food preparation and feeding.
All up close and personal stuff which simply cannot be done from a distance of one metre.
And some home based carets do this for a number of clients every day.
Give them the bloody kit.
Please.
Am aware of what carers do as they have been attending my mother for some years as well as my father until recently…the system of using contracted providers has all the typical problems of the model…and the skill level of the staff varies vastly….as with so much of our health system the lack of investment is biting us on the arse big time
But we haven't even had the flu season here yet, and in China surely the flu season preceded the C-19. There is going to be a huge amount of data to analyse to try and make sense of what has and has not happened.
Ironicly as I said to my grown up kids a month ago, it is looking like ( if we get it right ) that more Kiwis will be alive at the end of the four weeks than if the C-19 had never happened. The road toll will be down significantly and maybe also the murder rate as well as workplace deaths., so possibly we will be in credit by 30-40 Kiwis still alive.
But that doesn't mean we should have let the apocalypse run its course, killing off the susceptable as well as hospital, ambulance and all sorts of other helping staff and leaving hundreds of thousands as sick as and 5000 plus of us to die an agonising horrific death the same as New York.
Anybody espousing that mad scenario deserves an injection of this shit to teach them some humility.
Of course if the government and especially a Labour Govt were to do nothing these self same arseholes would be screaming blue murder for the gummint to do something.
Ha! Yes to your last para. As far as the flu killing ppl, I don't think it kills bus drivers or nurses, surgeons etc in the numbers that the UK is seeing right now, every flu season.
A lighthearted look at what its like in Lockdown. I think everyone will recognise themselves in there somewhere. 😉
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120960579/alison-mau-if-you-think-halfway-is-bad-wait-till-we-get-to-day-20
we need some lightheaded reading from people who lost their jobs and businesses and who have no idea what they should do when the twelve week wage subsidy ends.
Now that would be interesting. But i am glad to hear that a rich women is having a good time thanks to her favority fabric shop being now an essential service. Maybe she should sew some masks?
Sunday today? Really? Maybe it is Anne.
If anyone thinks we are near halfway, they are in dreamworld I am 80 and thinking at least 12 weeks level 4/3 I also hope that will happen, kill the virus then worry about any other matters, not many days ago the world were talking how great Singapore was doing, they opened up a little, 1700 in last week 300 yesterday
now you are just whining.
Believe me.
Believe me I am not whining, I just happy to go along with what all our experts and the WHO, But if you want to discuss whining I could pull out some of your messages over last couple weeks Im happy in my bubble
hence why i told you you were whining.
i said the same thing before shutdown, and as you surely know no one wants to listen to Cassandra – i think she was cursed, right?
I think that Singapore has a large number of migrant workers who sleep in dormitories hence the resurgence. Or so the epidemitoligist said this morning.
"kill the virus then worry about any other matters," Agreed Peter. Be disastrous if too early meant starting all over again.
to believe that it will be stomped out with a one off stay at home order is honestly naive.
there is a reason why you only ever get the vaccine fro the last flue and never the current one.
The best we can hope is that we understand how it works and thus be able to reduce mortality rates by treating it appropriatly instead of what we are doing right now which is to throw everything at it hoping that something will work on enough people to make a difference. And the very best we can hope is that some humans will build up immunity – at least to the current strain, that we get testing that is effective, and that maybe maybe a we are able to create vaccines for the different mutations of the virus.
But no matter what we will have to do this on more then one occasion and hopefully by then we can do lockdowns in a more controlled fashion.
Agreed and point well made.
Australia and Singapore are the poles that influence the thinking of our public service – who are giving the advice to Cabinet for Monday 20 April.
Existing under Alert Level 3 is going to take a tremendous amount of planning for every company. We've spent the last week just thinking:
– How to separate work areas with separate lunchrooms, toilets, and offices
– Whether any office worker needs to be in an office again, since meetings are working effectively online
– Forms to sign each day stating who in your family is an Essential Service worker, who is sick, what's your temperature, everyone's contact details I nyour house, medical history, etc etc
– We're not sure whether to require that none take public transport – there's debate on it.
But the pressure to get everyone back to work before our home companies just fire us is growing every single day.
A huge job of logistics and of attitudes Ad. As a retiree my mind boggles.
Those forms are dodgy, for a start, and good luck ordering people how they should commute.
The only "daily" factor there was temperature, and that's seven shades of pointless re:covid. Everything else is just a single checkbox: "do you meet any of these criteria?"
But yeah, it's a hurdle. Another option might be "alternate work from home days" to widen up the workspacing.
Many already come to work in shuttles organised by the subcontractors.
Many others have company utes, and can pick people up for work. We just have to be organised, rostered, and turn up on time.
We're also working on separated car parks for different worksites.
A statistic in the making.
On Friday evening, about 730,000 cars, carrying perhaps 10% of Moscow's 12.7 million population, left the capital, centre of Russia's epidemic, for the countryside, according to Moscow's transport department.
The exodus, perfectly legal, has raised fears that the virus is being carelessly spread across the country, and angered the residents of outlying regions who had thought themselves at least relatively protected.
https://news.yahoo.com/muscovites-flee-coronavirus-shutdown-bringing-172149327.html
and like in the US and elsewhere, many of the rural areas will not have the hospital capacity and medical staff needed for people dropping like flies.
oh well. Russia and the US can show us who 'herd immunity' looks like, right?
Your comment had me thinking about Chernobyl and the evacuation.
I would like to know the age of those who were evacuated from Moscow. If the more vulnerable, this would be a clever move as the less vulnerable would probably be able to continue working and not be such a high risk to the 60 and above age group.
not a risk to themselves but a good risk to anyone they come in contact with.
Young people may not die of Covid, but they can get it, stay asymptomatic and spread it like wild fire.
So about the dumbest thing that could be done.
The Moscow evacuation is a story I will follow.
There are limited medical resources in Moscow. Evacuating a non infected high risk group would free up resources.
Covid-19 will show, that reducing the spread to the elderly will reduce the death rate. Rest home residents have been shown to be a higher risk.
It's the rich leaving to spend the summer in their holiday homes.
btw, the radioactive forests near Chernobyl are burning, too
https://www.cnet.com/news/nasa-satellite-views-of-chernobyl-wildfires-paint-worrisome-picture/?
Do you know how frequent fires are inside the Chernobyl red zone?
The size of the fire/s and duration would increase the radio active exposure.
I finally read the article about people taking Covid-19 to the country side.
Sabine (@6.2.1)
"Throw[ing] everything at it hoping something will work" is a very human response even if not really logical:
A/ Something must be done!
B/ This is something we could do?
\= We must do that thing.
We are not going to be leaving lockdown until there is a vaccine admittedly. But after a few months of lockdown we will hopefully get down to lower threat levels (maybe even level 1 in isolated places like Stuart Island).
I live in a fairly rough part of Dunedin (with the housing crisis you take what you can get). If this stage 4 lockdown goes on much longer, this entire place is going to blow! People with little to lose don't have much reason to obey the law.
i have no issues with doctors trying to save lifes any way they can, especially in the face of a deadly and unknown illness. they do what they must and hopefully something will show as having an impact. I think its exclusion by trial or something like that.
But i do not believe that we are being let out of our hovels on April 22nd, i don't believe that the wage subsidy is keeping people in their houses, well fed and mentally sane. And i agree with you that people will lose their shit if the Government does not start to speak up about the 'after'. Frankly, throwing peanuts at the working populace and the beneficiaries and locking them up for their own safety was the easiest part of this excersise.
Like you i live in a blue collar, non gentrified, low income area of Vegas. Its not even a question of 'nothing to lose', its a question as to how long you can keep people living in over crowded housing without people cracking. How long can you tell people to not see their friends, family etc if only to keep sane – mentally and emotionally. To boot we are coming into winter and as we know, most of NZ housing stock is colder inside then outside.
I do hope that the Goverment will finally start addressing the flood of newly unemployed people and how they are to live and above all 'where' once they lose their housing, the flood of mental illness that can't be addressed because people can't go to see a doctor (only essential ) herck maybe you can see a dentist to pull that thooth but you sure can't see the dentist to fill that hole, the family violence and so forth.
Cause 580$ will only allow you to not die. It will not allow you to live, and by the time 12 weeks are over, they are to live of 280$. And for those that take umbrage at this comment, yes, benefits are too low, hence why i and many applauded Metiria Turei for coming out and letting anyone who cared know that she too cheated in order to survive.
And if people don't get answers they will start breaking the rules.
As we say in Germany, Zum leben zu wenig, zum sterben zuviel. Too little to live, too much to die.
Another excellent piece by Henry Cooke on Stuff.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/120924212/another-day-another-crisis-inside-the-beehive-bubble
The very last sentence [I don’t think it warrants a spoiler alert]:
Indeed, I used to use my work to cope with life and my evenings, weekends, and non-work time [did anybody mentions holidays or socialising?] to cope with work. Now, I find writing here on TS has become one of my squeaky crutches to cope with the lockdown and global pandemic. It is affecting me more and in other ways than I could ever have imagined. It seems I’m not alone in this …
It is not a good time to need to buy a fridge. A friend with a older baby and a 3 year old her fridge has packed in.
Buying online is expensive as well.
I told my friend to look at the government web site.
Going to the supermarket more often is not ideal either.
Can she try a FB – Trade me place? Surely, fridges are essential? I.e. the fridge is outside the home from where she buys it, and only she or designated friend with trailer will pick Maybe a grant from winz, or maybe a Go Fund – give a little?
Just transporting the fridge would not be easy.Companies charge a lot just for the delivery.
I will go online soon and see what the limited options are.
no i am more thinking of buying a second hand fridge and pick up.
The only other way to do it if she is hard on cash would be to do a fundraiser or WINZ grant. But mind they don't work till tuesday and most likely will not have enough staff to answer phones or emails.
Can still buy fridges online, can pay off weekly, and yeah about $80 to deliver. I'm a solo dad who earns less than $800 a week and I'm certainly living thank you, I'm also living in a "rough area" (that term, ffs, we ain't tent city or have drug shoot outs or crack houses) in South Dunedin, one of the most densely populated areas of the country, and there is no sign of people "blowing up" (except the bozos letting off fireworks nightly).
People are still living here and so far no one is blowing up. Ditto, unless you talk about people who are losing it in supermarkets, or with their children or their spouse. But then we don't see that so it must not be happening? Right?
However will that still be the same in say another four weeks? or is only hindsight allowed as foresight might be to unpleasant to contemplate? Good grief, Sometimes this 'i am good' so all is good is tedious. I am glad you can live on what you make, But i do have a crack house, a gang house and many properties in my neighbourhood that have 'rent a cabin' on their properties, and in them live people. So maybe its all good for you, as it is for me, but that does not mean it is for all. Is that so hard to understand and is it so hard to accept?
IFL
What are you down near the beaches or some place flash like that? No methheads or gang houses on your block? Already been a few street brawls where I am. Feral dogs roaming the streets too.
byFlash? Ha!-Yeah, Fawcett St, mansions, swimming pools, helicopter pads … the most solo parents, the least internet connectivity, teen age parents, elderly, unemployed , we have it all and it's a wonderful neighbourhood. Look Sabine, I'm not a "I'm all right so fuck everyone else", I'm from Northland where some ppl don't even have power! I'm just refuting that Dunedin has "rough areas" (20 years as a posty, I know Dunedin) or that I'm dying earning less than $800 a week, I've got internet, I pay a mortgage (cheap house in cheap area in a cheap town, absolutely), I have kids, I have a car, I live.
I'm guessing you're up Corsto or Brockville? Always feral dogs up those areas, scary. edit: I personally find the “we’re all gonna die coz govt are useless” trope tedious frankly.
I have already given out more personal information on a public forum than I feel comfortable with in retrospect. So neither confirming nor denying my location in any particular suburb of Dunedin.
However, I did eventually (more distraction than difficulty delayed me)find this old article that has a good map of the various deprivation areas of Dunedin:
https://www.odt.co.nz/lifestyle/magazine/lines-divide-dunedin-paper-road-separates-two-worlds
I am not aware that I have been going with a "we're all gonna die coz govt" trope. But then, I am really on edge barricaded in a house with kids to protect. Hard to walk outside when encroaching on the footpath outside certain houses gets glass bottles thrown at you! Fortunately we do have a fenced backyard.
If anything, my line is more; I hope the government remembers that people are messy and hard to slot neatly into tidy boxes. Especially meth-heads and alkies. Not interested in blame, just results.
Put it out there on Facebook and see if someone in her district has one spare.
Lots of kind people around. A family whose oven broke down around here were lent one for the lockdown.
"Contactless delivery" may take a bit of organisation.
I think you can apply for a permit to leave your area if need be.
I know a friend of mine in AKL who is now looking after a friend of his who is ill at home with a broken bones and can't move. He is allowed to have 'two bubbles' his one at home and as a carer at the other houses.
So very rude he gets to ride his bike from one garage to another.
You can move bubbles, "for safety reasons" such as domestic violence, and share a bubble with someone close by, who lives on their own.
For the fridge, I was thinking of them getting on their local Facebook page to get one from close by.
also local Charity such as Habitat for Humanity. They might not be open but i am sure they still monitor emails of FB messages? And hey have the resources to manage a delivery.
In some cases, Work and Income give funding to people who need white ware – I don't know what the criteria is.
This from a AAAP Impact in South Auckland in 2016
AAAP website has contact details for people wanting advice during C-19 crisis.
Some interesting and good ideas here but no cost analysis.
I'm surprised that there's no mention of double glazing, as with insulation reducing energy needs should be the priority.
Immediate shovel-ready projects to prioritise: 4. Introducing a Universal Basic Income is a long shot, it would likely take some time and a lot of working out how to structure and finance this.
Government will have to be careful not to increase spending too much at a time that the PAYE and company tax takes will likely drop quite a a bit for a year or two.
I note that an automated email is sent if you sign the petition even if you untick “I’d like to take urgent action for the Earth. Please send me email updates.”:
A recent post on TS National’s Petition is Cynical Populism criticised the National Party for 'email harvesting' via a petition even though there was no evidence of that happening and Bridges assured it wouldn't be done.
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
FFS! You’re still peddling the same shit!? I’ve asked you for evidence other than one Tweet by Henry Cooke to show that Simon Bridges had said what you claimed he had said. I’m still waiting.
People received a follow-up e-mail after signing Nationals ‘petition’. Are you denying that? The e-mail addresses will be stored until the ‘petition’ is presented to the House of Representatives (or not). Where is National storing it? On a Treasury website per chance? On one of their laptops in the Party office in Epsom? An emotional junior staffer could delete it accidentally …
Thirdly, the e-mail opt-out is up-front on the Greenpeace petition form, not down one level as National’s is [present time].
Lastly, Greenpeace is an independent organisation and not a NZ political party in full electioneering mode and cynically campaigning for something the Government is about to do anyway in a couple of days. False equivalence or just a simple misunderstanding on your behalf?
You’re starting to piss me off, Pete, with your wilful and ignorant belligerence.
"People received a follow-up e-mail after signing Nationals ‘petition’. Are you denying that?"
Of course not, I showed that it looks like a standard response to other petitions, just like the Greenpeace petition. But that doesn't show that National are harvesting the email addresses to use for other purposes.
Are you doubting Henry Cooke's word? I at least provided something.
It's more evidence than I've seen for claims that National are harvesting email addresses from the petition.
Are you serious about your accusation of wilful aggressive or warlike behaviour? This is a political blog, I thought that calmly challenging claims and debating things raised was withing the rules here.
Yup, ignorant you are.
Nope. There’s a difference in “standard response”. Have you been able yet to work out the difference between the Greenpeace and National petitions? Look closer and for helpful hints see @ 11.1. National’s petition prompted an e-mail follow-up and only then the opt-out (unsubscribe) appeared. It was clearly a baiting trap to harvest contact information for electioneering.
No, not at all, but I’m not after Henry Cooke’s word, I want Simon’s word. Where is it? Bridges can claim plausible denial, as technically he’s never said what you claim he has said. Think about it for a second and see if the penny drops.
You can’t have it both ways. If Cooke’s Tweet is your (only!) evidence for what Bridges said then the same Tweet is simultaneously evidence that National were collecting e-mail addresses from the petition. Both pieces of ‘evidence’ stand or fall together.
My apologies, I meant “petulant”.
Calmly repeating wilful ignorance is against the rules. It is also known as BS, making up shit, wilful denial, et cetera.
"technically he’s never said what you claim he has said"
Technically you're making that up because you don't know.
I didn't claim Bridges said it, I quoted a Henry Cooke tweet. If Cooke is correct and Bridges claims plausible deniability (something you seem to have just suggested as a possibility) then Cooke can hold him to account for it. Think about it for a second and see if the penny drops.
” the same Tweet is simultaneously evidence that National were collecting e-mail addresses from the petition.”
No it isn’t. An automatic response is not evidence of collecting emails for campaign purposes, which was the original accusation.
You keep implying I am "repeating wilful ignorance" with no evidence of that. It looks like wilful repeating to me, but I wouldn't say it's through ignorance.
If you really wanted to know you could check with Cooke as to whether his tweet was wilful ignorance or not.
If you have any evidence other than the indirect one in Cooke’s Tweet then show it. Others and I have asked you repeatedly and you’ve returned a blank each time. It looks like there’s no other evidence to corroborate the Tweet by Cooke, not Simon’s Tweet. We all know Bridges is an experienced Twitterer so maybe he’s Tweeted it himself. Yes? Come on, Mr Bridges, show us your Tweet! I cannot find it anywhere here: https://twitter.com/NZNationalParty/status/1247998266102304768 or here https://twitter.com/simonjbridges
Yes, you did make that claim and your exact words were:
So, where did Bridges say it, directly, in his own words, under his own name?
I wasn’t accusing Cooke of being wilfully ignorant, I was responding to you about you. You’re trying to divert again.
Let me know when you’re thirsty …
Have you ever wondered, Incognito, what it would feel like to be drowning in a huge tank of righteous pabulum?
Starting to?
Debt jubilee anyone?
https://www.interest.co.nz/news/104502/debt-jubilee-universal-basic-income-and-regionalism-rather-globalisation-are-among-steve
Firstly, Keen says, they should be implementing a modern debt jubilee now.
"It's quite feasible to do it [but] I never thought it would happen. People asked me what chance I thought this had of happening. I said it's less than a snowflake's chance in hell. We are in hell now and the only way out of hell, as well as getting a vaccine for the virus, is to reduce this burden of private debt otherwise we'll have a financial collapse after the coronavirus," says Keen.
The alternative, he argues, is mass loan defaults.
"You simply have to accept that debt can't be repaid when too much debt has been issued. So we have to reduce private debt and we have to do it now. [We] should do a debt jubilee now, not once we get through this crisis. Otherwise there'll be many people who can't pay their rent, as well as people who can't pay their mortgages," says Keen.
"If we do it now we'll enable the payments system to continue functioning. If we don't do it now then it's quite possible the payments system will collapse. Small businesses won't get any cash income, households won't get wages. Everybody will end up having no money in their bank accounts because that money will be used to pay off debt."
A number of reputable economists are suggesting this. Debt that can't be paid won't be paid. Extraordinary measures for extraordinary times.
theres a lot to what he says…I see hes moved to a regional model which is more workable IMO….but I still think he overestimates the possible level of autarky ….and still have concerns around UBI but it may end up being the least bad option.
In any case the debt issue must be addressed
Yes, back to debt-jubilee. Time for capitalist type business measures.
But this will be done in true charity, not out of wily weaving round because of bad management. Act of God this, and now is time for the Jesus' Samaritan act.
Just noticed my rubbish bag. Usually it is full to the brim even though we don't put food in the bag. This week it is only one quarter full. What? And the recycling bin is also about a quarter of the usual level. What?
Why is that happening? Same amount of food/wrapping but no trips to Mitre 10 etc. Have not cleaned out the garage or cupboards but wouldn't use the rubbish bags for that anyway.
No flyers in the letter box selling us specials that we don't need , no weekly local real estate mags of what is for sale in the region/area and no community newspapers.
If we are not spending, then all the packaging that goes with that is not being discarded. No takeaways, be that food of coffee, more baking if our household is representative.
Just a few suggestions as to why 😁
Suppose it must be those things Herodotus though we get no fliers and those weekly newspapers just join the dailies in the recycling. Seldom takeaways but those endless packaging being absent must be some of it.
If every is having shortages of rubbish then it might be an indicator of significant drop in national waste. Must be something important in that, assuming every else is having same "problem."
This is going to give Mike Hosking a heart attack.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/120970386/how-coronavirus-will-change-the-face-of-the-cbd
Hmm…
A vaccine against the coronavirus could be ready by September, according to a scientist leading one of Britain’s most advanced teams.
Sarah Gilbert, professor of vaccinology at Oxford University, told The Times on Saturday that she is “80% confident” the vaccine would work, and could be ready by September. Experts have warned the public that vaccines typically take years to develop, and one for the coronavirus could take between 12 to 18 months at best.
In the case of the Oxford team, however, “it’s not just a hunch, and as every week goes by we have more data to look at,” Gilbert told the London newspaper.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-11/coronavirus-vaccine-could-be-ready-in-six-months-times
There was an interview on 9 to none with Kathryn Ryan last week where she interviewed a spokesperson from one of the American Big Pharma companies. I didn't catch all of it as I was busy in the workshop at the time but what I did hear was this:
a. There is apparently world wide cooperation across Universities and Pharmaceuticals in an effort to develop a vaccine and each are pursuing a slightly different approach. But collaboration is the key ingredient so to speak.
b. At the same time they are going ahead with developing the production process so that if and when the effectiveness and reliability of a vaccine is approved it can be speedily put into prodauction
c. they realise that this needs to be a not for profit vaccine and are collaborating with govt's world wide for its eventual distribution.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018742144/the-race-to-find-a-vaccine-johnson-and-johnson
I suspect it won't be not for profit so much as a regulated profit. That, is the Pharma companies involved in the development and manufacturing will get some form of mandated return on their capital.
Well it is only fair that they receive the costs of research and development but they are aware as is everyone else that the only way out of this, in any timely fashion, is the availability of an effective vaccine not just for developed nations – but world wide – and that means making the vaccine as affordable as possible.
Jared the Soulless will want a piece of that.
He'll have to get in line behind Kelly Loeffler
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8176283/Republican-senator-Kelly-Loeffler-admits-millions-stock-sales-coronavirus-briefing.html
MERS is still killing 30% of people who contract it in the Middle East and there isn't a vaccine for that as far as I know. Nor SARS Cov 2 either.
WHO website lists other epidemic all the rage at the moment.
I seriously doubt that there will be a vaccine for this one but a lot will be found out about Cov19 while trying to find one. So why is so much money being spent trying to make one… just how much money do you think Trump et al would stump up if researchers said "We are not going to be able to make a vaccine but we will learn a lot about it ".
I wouldn't take the lack of a vaccine against MERS as any kind of indication that a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine won't get developed.
The total worldwide cumulative number of MERS infections is around 2500, with around 850 deaths. Its person-to-person transmissibility appears very low. Infection risk appears much higher among those that get up close and personal with camels, and in recent years the disease has been pretty much confined to Saudi Arabia.
So there's just not much incentive to develop a vaccine against MERS. Whereas with SARS-CoV-2, there's a huge incentive to develop a vaccine.
As far as I can see there are no vaccines for any viruses in the corona family.
The SARS-CoV-1 got the furthest through, but after 10 years when almost all of the funding for finding one was shutdown, they were only just finding ones that looked viable for human testing. In other words, it took them a decade.
MERS-Cov looks like it is in the same boat. The epidemic started in 2012 and still has cases. But they have only recently progressed to human trials.
Wikipedia
They will be using the accumulated SARS and MERS research for developing a vaccine. Like this. But in my opinion as a systems/development orientated person looking at history, I’d guess that any vaccine is more likely to be viable in a 5 year range rather than 18 month range.
Personally I think that targeting treatments to stop people having to go to ICU level treatment is going to be a preferable target for immediate development.
But I hope that this time we’ll see corona virus vaccine development actually pushed through to fruition. This is unlikely to be the last from that family and it appears that they’re pretty good at adapting to high density human populations (their primary host appears to be high density bat populations).
As far as I can see there are no vaccines for any viruses in the corona family.
There's a common bovine enteric coronavirus that there's a vaccine against.
Since it attacks cow digestive systems rather than human respiratory systems it’s kinda irrelevant to the current crisis, except as a counterexample to the notion that coronaviruses are impossible to develop vaccines against.
https://www.motherjones.com/coronavirus-updates/2020/03/bovine-coronavirus-vaccine-meme-debunk-facebook/
FFS.
https://twitter.com/crampell/status/1249079332070359040
https://twitter.com/drdavidmichaels/status/1248731532258430981
"Worse pay and conditions" really is the only tool in their toolbox, isn't it.
Oh, they have more, cutting taxes…?
No.
They also have "lower taxes for rich people" and "shift the tax burden to poor people with sneaky regressive levies".
edit: snap joe90
Not forgetting "slavery by stealth" via debt for life or prison labour
Ob, right – as well as a hammer, they have some CRC. How could I forget?
Finally the reality has set in to many americans, that the strategy to get a left wing candidate in the democratic party is just a no go. The democratic party is a corporation all of its own needs, wants and desires of money and power. Indeed whilst the democrats have had control, they have done sweet bugger all to fix inequality.
The plan, a third party coalition working in the interests of working people.
https://peoplesparty.org/
Will it be led by the People's Poet?
You managerial class types hate it when working people actually get their shit together.
Because the Dems are the real problem and you and your ilk are ok with 4 more years of tRump in order to either teach Dems a lesson or burn the party to the ground. And somehow that will guarantee the success and purity of the progressive message.
Idiot.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2015/12/13/1458098/-The-privileged-idiocy-of-Just-let-the-Republicans-win
well they are not gonna vote again for Jill Stein, so a new party was needed.
But they couldn't even get Tulsi to jump aboard.
I'm the idiot when you just lied about what I said and my intentions.
I'll leave now as that is the what you. Thanks for shutting down the debate.
what did we just say that got you so upset? p;
Fwiw, no third party atm has a chance in the US. And to add, i don't think the US will have elections in November and i am basing this on the recent ruling of the Supreme Court who forced voters in Wisconsin to go out and vote in person during a deadly pandemic.
edited.
Blame the voter.. nice one Joe… Would you and sleepy Joe be able to spot a political movement if it was staring you in the face… on this evidence probably not.
Check the bios of those involved in this particular political movement.
fuck yeah,
i blame the white economical anxious working male, the 'pro life' all sperm are sacred evangelic white voters fort his heep of shit and his thoroughly shitty family. and the shitty party that supports them cause money.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-s-coronavirus-task-force-amassed-power-it-boosted-industry-n1180786?cid=public-rss_20200412
sometimes you don't vote for a shitty excuse like Jill Stein just because you don't get your will. Sometimes you vote for the least shitheel on the block, considering that it will be your living room carpet with the shitstains left behind.
i might not be happy with the current goverment or the last one and so on, but i never in my life have willingly voted for someone whom i know to be a sadist, a serial sexual offender, a gambler, a liar, a thief, to name just a few of the fine characteristics of Donald Trump and pretend that i did so because the alternative was worse.
So yeah, our political parties resemble the voters, and sadly our democracy does not grant us 'none of the fucking above' as a valid choice. So in order to be a decent citizen, who wants the best for the country and the ones following us when we are dead and dust, we only ever get to vote for the least of all evils. And he is fucking evil, and people now have to bury their loved ones as a consequence. So yeah, blame the white economically anxious white working male – as no other working class is ever of importance – and their pro life beckys and karens and their priests and prophets of the golden calf.
I just read in a herald article ( just the first couple of lines due to pay wall) that labour is at 49% and nats at 35% .
Was hdpa s article.
The government has delivered a relief package for 12 weeks. This is the priority before a stimulus package.
I am pleased NZ is not like the EU about relief money. EU not being able to agree on how borrowed money will be paid back. At least Boris Johnson has escaped the EU infighting.
How much of NZ's relief package would be stimulating the economy?
but the emails
NYT just published 80 pages of internal emails from the "Red Dawn" groups within the Trump administration, mostly health and national security professionals alarmed about the peril of covid-19. With names and dates.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/11/us/politics/coronavirus-red-dawn-emails-trump.html
all emails below
.com/data/documenthelper/6879-2020-covid-19-red-dawn-rising/66f590d5cd41e11bea0f/optimized/full.pdf#page=1
oh well, hindsight? Right?
Alt NYT link for those who run into the paywall.
http://archive.li/AVvtp
thanks for doing that as i have no idea how to do that.
Go to http://archive.li/ – pare the address of the page you want to archive back to .html – enter and save.
DNS resolution error…whatever that means
Worked for me. Maybe try it again?
have gone into Sabines PDF link…thats working fine….if you dont count the content, unpleasant reading.
try this
http://archive.li/AVvtp
also this
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/04/julian-assange-fathered-2-babies-with-one-of-his-lawyers-while-holed-up-in-ecuadors-embassy-in-london-report/
They just did it to spice up the lives of his CIA watchers on the security cams everywhere inside the embassy.
https://thegrayzone.com/2019/10/10/cia-spied-on-julian-assange-in-ecuadorian-embassy/
I've shamelessly lifted this from facebook.
However, it nails it.
"Money men and morons risking a 2nd wave of infection
Up until very recently Singapore has been regarded as "the gold standard" in the fight against Covid-19.
On Wednesday, Singapore reported a record of 142 new infections in the city-state, many of which have been connected to foreign workers living in compact dormitories.
This was the second major outbreak in Singapore – after weeks of successfully controlling the outbreak within its borders.
The recent resurgence of infections has prompted the government to implement a lockdown, closing down schools and most workplaces for a month.
They had not actually done a lockdown – until now.
Dr Hosking had angrily insisted we do what Singapore was doing – before insisting all victims of Covid-19 were going to die anyway and let's not crash the economy – before Boros went to ICU – and then Dr Hosking flip flopped like a scruffy turd burger for a third time.
OMG take his microphone away !
Opposition for opposition's sake became the target for public ridicule and now Dr Hosking is a bad nationwide joke, slightly in front of Simon Bridges who is running a very close second.
But there have been other equally dangerous and misleading voices telling us to hurry back to mixing and socialising like that cat hating dude with the graphs.
You know Mr Morgan – that guy!
He does not know much about viruses really – and media are promoting his views that we rush back based on his simple graphs.
He says that – because Australia is still living it up – he reckons we've already overcooked things here.
Get ready for a second wave if you follow these money men and not the real medical experts.
Large segments of the most wealthy are pretty damned thick and the Nats will be wailing to the moon about cash soon enough – not public health.
Today Jacinda Ardern slapped Heather du Plessis-Allan across the chops with a dead mullet until she got it into her thick head that the simplistic high level thinking of brain dead Nats on Newscrap ZB involved imagining cramming returning kiwis into cramped, confined facilities which would have become death traps.
"It's a no brainer" they all repeated without once talking through scale, the timing issues, the space requirements, the food, the security …..or anything remotely connected to the reality of the concept.
Truth be known – none of them appreciated the scale nor the logistics of mandatory quarantine but instead – they all said "Finally" as if this should have happened three weeks ago…when it was logistically impossible because of scale.
These bone heads would have recreated several land based cruise ships – where thousands became infected in close confines – because of their low detail thinking.
Sticking to evidence, the best medical advice and being ultra careful about each step – involves shaking off the loud cacophony of politically motivated, grandstanding fuck heads, who dominate our media landscape.
The recent spike of cases in Singapore underscored how easily the virus can spread even with social distancing measures in place – and it may give us a glimpse of what will happen it we lose our patience and listen to "economic experts" instead of scientists and medical experts.
Let's not fuck this up, by letting ego maniacs with big wallets and megaphones snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Money men and morons risking a 2nd wave of infection."
While there is some obvious crossover there should be a separation between environmental and green issues.
There's a crossover between social issues, environmental issues, business and employment issues, financial issues and health issues, so it seems odd that Greens just chose to connect environmental and social issues. Health and finance are closer to social issues than the environment.
At times it appears to me that Greens use the environment as an excuse to promote social fixes.
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
you almost grasped it….and then it slipped away.
Its ALL connected
Of course most things are connected to various extents. So why the Green focus on just the environment and social issues?
You really do struggle don't you.
Give Pete a break, he’s never heard of or understood the Green’s, their values, their philosophy, their policies, their approaches, their messaging, et cetera. Pete is new to politics, obviously, and it will be a steep learning curve for Pete.
Pete is new to politics, obviously,
You would think so.
why do national focus on low tax and business?
National focus on low wages, and low taxes.
They are NFG for business, unless you are a property speculator or financial ponzi schemer.
Dude, you don’t get to centristsplain to actual greenies what their politics are, especially under a post that is an exemplar of green politics. I haven’t read your other recent comments yet, but my suggestion is that you read the post properly and get with the kaupapa at the end of it. Putting you in premod so I can keep an eye on it.
Pete George.
Another who is stupid enough to think we can have environmental sustainability, without economic and social sustainability.
Well. Maybe we can, but you wouldn't like the sort of Government, that would entail.
I wonder if we can expect an attack on this petition by someone who will declare it to be "cynical populism" and an attempt to harvest e-mail addresses?
I note that your e-mail address is a required entry if you wish to sign. Can we expect people who objected to the National petition to be complaining about "harvest(ing) thousands of signatures under false flag pretences."?
And no I am certainly not going to be charging in to do so. Parliament requires the address after all as the protesters about the National petition should have known.
Edit. Accidentally hit the submit button before I had finished.
I personally think that there are a lot of excellent ideas there. Whether we can afford them when we finally get society working again and having a few hundred thousand out of work is another matter.
[lol, nice try with the edit, but you still can’t use my posts to do attack comments or post offtopic. You can hash it out with Pete who already had a go, in OM – weka]
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
This is the carefully worded attack that I’ve come to expect from a smart Alek like you.
I think you might be in for a disappointment.
Not a good day for you, it could be a double disappointment.
Disingenuous comment. People click away online and give away loads of (personal) information in the process. This is what National was banking on but you missed the point(s) as did Pete George.
I could swear that Pete George and you are related. You should have a look at his comments @ 11, 11.1.1, and 22, but I warn you, it will be like looking in the mirror.
"This is what National was banking on"
Have you got any evidence of this? Or is it wilfil ignorance?
It’s staring you in the face, Pete, and you’re still asking for ‘evidence’!?
We’ve been through this before, ad nauseam, and yet you remain wilfully ignorant, indeed, or incredibly naive.
You’ve read the article by Anna Rawhiti-Connell that Cinny linked to yesterday.
Here it is again, to refresh your memory: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/114795111/anna-connell-battle-lines-drawn-in-race-for-election-clicks
National knows how it works and launched an unnecessary petition through which it collated e-mail addresses of voters. Some signed up unwittingly, which was entirely predictable, but their details will be deleted at some stage (??) according to Henry Cooke. Meanwhile, National is still collating ‘signatures’ despite the fact the mandatory quarantine has been in full force for three days! Why??
Yet, you maintain it’s perfectly normal!?
Nothing to see here, move on!
You can lead a horse to water …
False.
I expect National knows how it can work. It's reasonable to think that National didn't consider the petition unneccesary. Ardern had not stated when quarantining of all people arriving in New Zealand which a number of people had been urging, including National and Dr David Skegg.
You haven't shown any evidence that National collated email addresses of voters (or of petition signers who aren't necessarily voters) – and that's a different thing to autoresponding emails which are standard for petitions.
I don't think a journalist of Cooke's standing would make that up. Do you? You don't seem to put any credence on what he tweeted.
I don't know why. Perhaps the petition has a set time to run. Perhaps they want to do it for publicity purposes. Perhaps Bridges was lying about not gathering emails for other purposes, or Cooke was lying about Bridges saying all email address data would be deleted. Or it could be something else. Jumping to a conclusion or speculating about something that's not know seems a bit pointless.
I've never maintained that. I've just questioned you claiming things for which you have not backed up with any evidence.
I thought you were commenting here in good faith. Cinny linked to article by Anna Rawhiti-Connell saying “Here's the article, via Stuff, via Newsroom from April 2019”. However, you corrected her saying “That's from August last year.” How did you know this if you hadn’t clicked on the link? Are you trying to tell me you clicked on the link, looked at the date only, and then closed it again without reading? And you still haven’t read it? Yeah, right!
Why do you have to turn things into a beige watered down version of reality, Pete?
Simply: National knows how it does work. FIFY.
You obviously haven’t figured out that that not all “autoresponding emails” are identical; the Greenpeace and National e-mail responses were quite different in one important aspect and you have closed your eye to it and turn your head away from it. Can’t you deal with this inconvenient fact?
Does National have the e-mail addresses in its possession, Pete? If you don’t know, which I’m sure you were going to give as answer, do you think it is likely they keep these details somewhere until they present the petition to the appropriate recipient in the House of Representatives? I wonder what weasely way with words you’ll come up with; I can almost not wait.
Is Henry Cooke the Leader of the National Party? No, he is not. You’re diverting away the focus, which is on Simon Bridges. When Bridges signs a document, he lets Cooke sign it on his behalf? When Bridges gives a press conference, he lets Cooke do the talking? It would save him the long commute to Wellington each time and he can stay with his family in Tauranga.
When I see something that doesn’t stack up I could wait, e.g. till somebody else starts asking questions, or till the cows come home. Or I could take a position and write about it in order to get to the bottom of it, unlike you who seems to wait till it is an ironclad crystal-clear case and then you may come off the fence and offer your opinion. Would that be a fair description?
I don’t think it is pointless to dig hard and deep while we are in a State of Emergency and in an Election Year. Weird comment from a blogger and part-time journalist.
No, you haven’t just questioned my claims, which could be completely wrong. You have defended Bridges and National’s petition all the way and said that it is an ordinary petition with an ordinary response and nothing untoward about it.
My ‘evidence’, so far, is in the link you provided to Cooke’s Tweet plus all the other stuff that doesn’t stack up; you could call it ‘circumstantial evidence’ as well as means, motive, and opportunity.
Have you seen this?
https://www.facebook.com/ads/library/?id=3104025276296746
It is a political ad and political advertising, in Election Year. Oh dear …
– Never tRumper.
https://twitter.com/Paul_VanDerMeer/status/1249041188742717446
I will never view the word 'patriarchy' the same again…everyone has plenty of spare time (except essential workers, thank you)….spend a productive hour and listen.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/smart_talk/audio/2018741853/kim-hill-speaks-with-dr-kristen-ghodsee-about-her-book-why-women-have-better-sex-under-socialism
Another sort of crisis. No house, destruction, food? Poor Vanuatu and that area, Fiji flooded, 50 hotels closed in Samoa on Radionz. Cyclone Harold.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2020/apr/09/cyclone-harold-aerial-footage-shows-destruction-across-vanuatu-video
There is always someone worse off isn't there. One of those unhappy things in life.
Can't find anything to confirm this, yet.
https://twitter.com/IndoPac_Info/status/1249044404108529666
edit:
Hong Kong (CNN)The African community in Guangzhou is on edge after widespread accounts were shared on social media of people being left homeless this week, as China’s warnings against imported coronavirus cases stoke anti-foreigner sentiment.
In the southern Chinese city, Africans have been evicted from their homes by landlords and turned away from hotels, despite many claiming to have no recent travel history or known contact with Covid-19 patients.
CNN interviewed more than two dozen Africans living in Guangzhou many of whom told of the same experiences: being left without a home, being subject to random testing for Covid-19, and being quarantined for 14 days in their homes, despite having no symptoms or contact with known patients.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/10/china/africans-guangzhou-china-coronavirus-hnk-intl/index.html
Only believe in half of what you see and nothing of what you hear, there is so much bullshit past around we have to stick to facts.
they don’t come to us with media
Hi Paul, can you please pick another user name as we’ve had a long term commenter in the past called Paul. eg Paul2 or Paul[letter] would work.