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Open mike 12/05/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, May 12th, 2019 - 159 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

159 comments on “Open mike 12/05/2019 ”

    • Andre 1.1

      Of all the ills attributed to 5G, this is the only one that has any kind of actual basis.

      The potential problem with interfering with weather-detecting satellites is easily avoided however. Simply don't use those specific frequency bands, those bands are a very small part of the spectrum 5G can use, so avoiding those bands won't be an impediment.

      This is an issue that has come up before, where there's a potential clash between comms use of a frequency band and scientific use of that same band. As far as I know, once the existing scientific use of a particular frequency band gets publicised, the organisations that have proposed using it for other purposes usually back off and just use the nearest unused bands. Which will almost certainly happen in this case.

      • One Two 1.1.1

        Of all the ills attributed to 5G, this is the only one that has any kind of actual basis.

        And how would you know that, when you have literally no idea about the technology…

      • Anne 1.1.2

        Very interesting stuff. Thanks A and Andre.

        We have some of the most professional and experienced forecasters in the world and it is due to the vast array of weather conditions we are exposed to, sometimes on a daily basis. I imagine even a minor change in the calculations could throw the forecasting of weather events off course and cause major problems on land, at sea and in the air.

        If the scientists are concerned then the government has to be concerned too.

        • Andre

          Here's a piece that covers some of what goes on around protecting frequency bands for scientific observations. Two notable examples of organisations flipping off the international agreements have been the russian Glonass positioning system and the Iridium satellite phone system. When it comes to weather forecasting, those countries that allow 5g signals to fuck up their weather data are very likely to reap some of downsides of less reliable forecasts. As well as pissing off their immediate neighbours by fucking up their forecasts too. Because the terrestrial emissions of those signals will only fuck up the data in a small area overhead of the emitters.

          edit: some weirdness going on with the first link I put up. Maybe this one will be better.


          • Anne

            Oh goodness, that level of technology is way above my knowledge and understanding, but what it boils down to imo is yet another area of man-made pollution which adds to the catastrophic consequences for the planet.

            But of course these people are just nit-picky scientists aren't they – a bunch of pointy heads sitting in their ivory towers who know 'nuffink' about the real word. So say the uneducated, ignorant nay-sayers – and the present US presidential incumbent is one of course.

    • One Two 1.2

      A growing number of municipalities, counties and cities are halting or slowing deployments…as there is not one singe study to show that the shift to MIMO mmwv directed energy beaming is remotely safe…

      There is however a plethora of studies evidencing damage to biology and dna at high enough levels of risk to be concerning to any human being…

      The tech/telco companies admit themselves they don't know because they have not done any such research…

      Blumenthal stated:

      “If you go to the FDA website, there basically is a cursory and superficial citation to existing scientific data saying ‘The FDA has urged the cell phone industry to take a number of steps, including support additional research on possible biological effects of radio frequency fields for the type of signals emitted by cell phones.’ I believe that Americans deserve to know what the health effects are, not to pre-judge what scientific studies may show, and they also deserve a commitment to do the research on outstanding questions.”

      “So my question for you: How much money has the industry committed to supporting additional independent research—I stress independent—research?

      Is that independent research ongoing?

      Has any been completed? Where can consumers look for it?

      And we’re talking about research on the biological effects of this new technology.”

      At the end of the exchange, Blumenthal concluded,

      So there really is no research ongoing. We’re kind of flying blind here, as far as health and safety is concerned.”

      Senator Blumenthal was speaking to industry witnesses in the Senate hearing video:

      • Mr. Brad Gillen, Vice President, CTIA
      • Mr. Steve Berry, President and CEO, Competitive Carriers Association
      • Mr. Shailen Bhatt, President and CEO, Intelligent Transportation Society of America
      • Mr. Michael Wessel, Commissioner, U.S.-China Economic & Security Review Commission
      • Ms. Kim Zentz, Chief Executive Officer, Urbanova
      • Sacha 1.2.1

        Gosh, some interesting information out there. I must highlight some of it for you. https://www.androidauthority.com/5g-dangers-895776/

        What about 5G and mmWave?

        There is no compelling evidence linking cellular networks cancer, but what about upcoming 5G technologies. Most of these frequencies occupy existing low frequency and Wi-Fi bands, so there aren’t really any new risks. Higher frequency mmWave technologies still don’t reach close to ionizing wavelengths and the technology actually extends further away from the maximum human RF absorption frequency of about 70MHz.

        MmWave will mostly deploy in the 24 to 29GHz spectrum, which suffers from very high reflection rates. Therefore, energy absorption is confined to the surface layers of the skin rather than deeper tissue touched by lower frequencies. Penetrating bones or the skull is out of the question, so you can throw out those brain tumor arguments.

        The FCC’s FR safety regulations apply all the way up to 100GHz, so mmWave 5G devices are bound by the same safety standards and energy limits as existing 4G LTE, Bluetooth, and Wi-Fi products. According to research, a 60GHz mmWave outputting a whopping 50W/m2 of power (which wouldn’t be close to passing FCC regulations) only raises skin temperature by 0.8 degrees Celsius, which is below the IEEE standards temperature threshold of 1 degree Celsius for mmWave radiation guidelines.

        • One Two

          Sacha, you've completed a cursory google search and come up with a poor link and low quality information, which is no way counters the comment you are responding to…

          I highly doubt you understand the information you've linked to , which is why you are unable to identify the fallacies contained within it…

          Gosh, some interesting information out there.

          Except you don't understand it…do you.

          Where are all the safety tests, sacha…and how old are the standards being used to sell the illusion of safety…off you go..there is the next google search for you…

          I won’t be replying back to you either way…I’ve been through the issues here multiple times before…you can search my comments if you are looking for more information…

          As you do not understand the issues, I am not going to spend more time….than I already have in replying to your poorly quoted comment..

          • Psycho Milt

            If smart, well-educated people present you with inconvenient facts and your counter-argument is that those people lack your superior cognitive capability and therefore don't understand why those facts don't refute your thesis at all, you might generate a feeling of satisfaction within yourself but you haven't actually argued the facts and will persuade nobody other than yourself.

            And yet it's your go-to response. Surely, someone with your vastly superior intellect should be capable of figuring out the fatal flaws of that response and modifying your approach to improve it?

            • Andre

              Aww shit Milt, don't encourage One Two to prolong the threads by throwing out more bullshit that actually needs to be debunked.

              Personally I'm quite happy to consider a thread done when One Two's response is a content-free assertion of their intellectual superiority that is so incoherent that its only persuasive value is convincing any rational observer that One Two is indeed a crank.


              • One Two

                Its a good way for you to avoid being further exposed by your own failings, Andre…

                What you call content free is links and information which openly expose your lack of knowledge and understanding…repeatedly…

                And you have completely affirmed that position by going directly to the name calling insults…once again…

                Through your comments, you’re at least mid fifties…and still calling people names…

                Your level. Name Calling.

              • Morrissey

                You're calling people cranks? But you're one of those Russiagate fantasists. This might help you. ….

                (The sane amongst us will be simultaneously horrified and amused by the old fool who starts ranting at the 10:09 mark.)

                • Adrian Thornton

                  @ Morrissey , That is a really good interview, but as far as Andre goes, as soon as you don't agree with him, it is straight into the ad hominem attacks, it is like he just comes on here to have everyone affirm his positions and then acts like a big ol' baby when someone doesn't…

                  …maybe he needs some one on one time with Gabor and really get to the bottom of all the hurt.

                  BTW, the Russiagaters loons are still pushing this rubbish right here on The Standard..quite sad for them really, and definitely terrible for the left going forward overall.

                  • Morrissey

                    Thanks Adrian. By the way, after Jerry Nadler's comical rant at 10:09, check out Rob "Meathead" Reiner straight after him. Simply hilarious.

              • Andre: my apologies – not only have I further encouraged OneTwo, but Morrissey has joined in with a lengthy and completely irrelevant video that we must agree with or accept that we're terrible people.

                • Morrissey

                  Another Russia Truther. How's the debunking of two years' fervent believing worked out for you, Milt?

                  • Adrian Thornton

                    Cut to the sounds of crickets…the silence is deafening.

                  • I get that you probably don't realise this, but calling people "Russia Truther" doesn't alter any of the relevant facts, only your seratonin levels.

                    • Morrissey

                      Could you present one of those "relevant facts" for us?

                      And thanks, but my serotonin levels are just fine. I think you and a whole lot of other fantasists could do with a boost though.

                • greywarshark

                  Oh we are. We are. I'll admit being terrible people – anything but please don't punish me. Everyone has their limits.

                  • I'm very sad to hear that, greywarshark. If it helps at all, I find that drinking heavily works wonders.

                    • Adrian Thornton

                      " I find that drinking heavily works wonders." also an age old method of avoidance…just sayin’

            • One Two

              The inconvenient facts are what the available actual science has been saying, and the inconvenient facts as to why the industry and regulators have failed to provide actual scientific evidence in support of the their unscientific assurances of safety…

              You and I have this conversation , milt, and you have multiple occasions you have torched yourself…no need to project yours, and others lack of knowledge on subject matter here…

              As you should have read in my comment to sacha…i've posted numerous links to the available science and linked to examples of the scientific community who hold grave concerns about the technology…

              So I will not excuse myself to you, or anyone else as to why I won't bother re-posting the links..go find them if you are so interested…

              • marty mars

                are you lagging?

                • Sacha

                  connection issues.

                  • marty mars

                    Yep I'm sure that and perhaps anger are issues too for one two.

                    I was wondering if he was in jail is all. No reply from one two so I'll not assume too much yet.

                • One Two

                  New additions to the club , eh marty…thing is, the only emotion that comes from hollow circlular bum pats, is a feeling of emptiness…which is unnecessary really…projecting onto other because of feelings of inadequacy is ugly whichever angle it is examined from..

                  And every single handle to can't resist the temptation to pile it on through a showing of together bro-ness… is a guy…a man…all of them…and you…

                  perhaps anger are issues too for one two.

                  As a contender for CEO of the AMC, you should avoid the hypocrisy of suggesting others share the same trait as yourself… I can re-post your numerous apologies to me if you like…and the comments you apologised for…

                  I was wondering if he was in jail is all.

                  Why would you wonder any such thing? Have you been to jail, marty ? To court of charges perhaps…juvenile detention as a youngster perhaps?

                  …so I'll not assume too much yet.

                  Best not to assume anything, marty…you and I have had enough discussions for you to know that all you need to do, is ask…

                  • marty mars

                    lol – have you ever said and really felt sorry to another person? It's sorta easy if you aren't an arsehole.

                    • One Two

                      You didn't answer my questions…and you've come back with what can read like two of your own…possibly a conflation on your part, possibly just poorly written, as they could be two distinct and most often separate set of circumstances can be involved…anyway…

                      As a gesture, i'll go first…sorry is a word or an act which should only be undertaken/used in times of pure sincerity and contrition…which implies that the individual(s) issuing the apology must understand within their own self, that saying sorry is appropriate for them…being they genuinely are sorry for what they have done…

                      It is a word/action which has become so diminished and misused…when in reality it should be hardly used at all…as an exception…not as a regular feature of an adult like to be doled out as an excuse for not learning or growing…

                      …have you ever said and really felt sorry to another person…


                    • marty mars

                      "all you need to do, is ask…"

                      that's what I did and yet you go all puffed chest on it. Try deep breathing when you get angry – count to 10 and THEN react. This is a good one for you to practice – go on try it now – see.

                    • One Two []

                      And you're still making the same fundamental mistakes ..they don't make you feel better…and you know why that is…they expose you…

                      As if I needed more opportunities handed on a silver platter from you…

                      • Are you sitting beside me , marty?

                      You should stop with the infantile projections…they’re stunting your growth..

                      Also try figuring out how to deal with those chips in your shoulders could help.

                      You are CEO of the ALMC.

                    • marty mars

                      Still struggling I see. Look, try the deep breaths – what have you got to lose? – you can find gold even in a dirty place – self improvement is the minimum required surely.

                      but whatever

                      CEO you say – thanks – what is ALMC – perhaps AlwaysLovingMyselfConstantly I hope – that shit will heal the world!!!

                    • One Two []

                      but whatever

                      No, marty. You don't see. As I had illustrated.

                      You're not within vicinity to keep making those comments with a shred of credibility…least of all with your record of abusive outbursts…eh bro.

                      Your shit can't heal the world. I've explained that to you previously also…not matter what you believe…

                      The regular and repetitive insulting , angry outbursts in the anonymous online world, over such an extended time period, will be a mirror of your behaviour in the offline world…

                      The outbursts also undermine your recent attempts to feign self improvement…yeah it's that obvious…

                      And like a bus which runs late..your next outburst will eventually turn up.

                    • marty mars

                      Why be racist? What good does that do? You're not a bro to me so don't pretend you are – if you are tangata whenua then say so otherwise stfu and stop trying to be racist or even worse cool. Geddit sport.

                      You have been given many chances and have failed to deliver. I'm okay with your big bluff, I get it – it is difficult when we don't reach our own expectations. Everyone struggles with that not just you one two and it is hard.

                      You have not been effective tonight or today really – I hope you get some rest tonight and the screws don't bang on the bars 🙂

                    • One Two []

                      Being Tangata Whenua equates to a monopoly on use of the word bro…and that's the second time you've called me racist…

                      That is actually you being racist. you've been called out for by many others here…

                      You have been given many chances and have failed to deliver. I'm okay with your big bluff,

                      More projection and nonsense from you. You've been handed more than enough detail and information to have improved your level of knowledge…but you're still stuck in the mud…pointing fingers at some else who clearly has invested far more time into learning…

                      Simply it is this. If the level is above you..instead of climbing…you through rocks…

                      Yourself and all the other angry little men who pile in on top of others here…are only interested in attacking what you believe is a threat…

                      All very obvious and small minded.

                      I'll be posting on race targeted vaccine testing experiments, upcoming…

                      Then you'll actually be able to shout racism … and be correct…

                      I have to assume you've been to prison…or that you're bluffing something pathetic by using repeated references…

                    • McFlock

                      Funny thing is, I kind of think that 1-2 does meet all their expectations, and pities the poor fools who don't understand how everything fits together so nicely.

                      It's a riff on the old "sane man in an insane world" trope – is it better to conform and pretend to be inadequately insane in order to preserve some level of freedom or life (as Camus' Outsider refused to do), or just try to convert the society towards the direction of one's own sanity? Alternatively, what about just sitting in the asylum in a straight jacket, knowing they think you're mad but happy in the knowledge that you really know what's going on?

                      I mean, in 1-2's case their stupidity is evident on many levels, with huge gaps in their knowledge in areas that they proclaim forth upon with great confidence (not to mention the shite spelling – "ironising radiation" still makes me chuckle). But the concept is a fun one to kick around.

                    • One Two []

                      huge gaps…poor spelling…

                      Of course there are gaps..it is impossible for me to know everything…won't stop me trying though…

                      As for the spelling comment…nice admission of defeat…same as you did with the HZ discussion…

                      I checked into Dunedin…found no evidence of vaccination data in the questionnaires…or that history was cross referenced against responses…
                      I’ll not have access to all detsils though and the web site looks info light…assume there is much more out there…

                      But as you seem to believe such a cohort study would expose vaccine issues…I agree that it could…then you've got the evidence of intent within the relevant study to prove there was an intention and use of such data sets..

                      Hand it over…or admit you’re speculating…

                    • marty mars

                      Yes – 1,2 is so invested in their beliefs that it would be impossible to for them to adjust so I agree that they are probably meeting their expectations. It also seems that they enjoy the blowback – there are descriptive words for that – quite an interesting and destructive character old 1,2. Bit up themselves though but that's where the humour comes from for me anyway 🙂

                    • McFlock


                      In one day you go from having never heard of it to being able to access questionnaire data. Well beyond the usual public descriptions along the lines of "almost all aspects of their physical and mental health are examined".

                      I'm sure the fact that they forgot to include one of the most significant health interventions in history just got missed by peer review for 45 years. Not just for the Dunedin study, either – for every single cohort study in the world, nobody notice that nobody was recording vaccination status.

                      Except you, because you're at such a high level.

                  • Incognito

                    Your search skills are not as good as I’d have thought …

                    As well as spaces to record development, immunisation, height and weight, eyes and ears, and behaviour, there were general tips and guidelines for parents. [my bold]


                    Edit: it took me about 20 sec

          • Tuppence Shrewsbury

            Are you trying to pull of a long troll or something?

            that was the most onanistic comment ever presented in the form of an argument.

            Sacha found some quality rebuttals to your explicit points, displaying an understanding of the issues which you then decided didn’t as it contradicted what you’ve said.

            If you know everything, why do you even bother presenting a position?

            5g and mu-MIMO technology have the capacity to remove wasteful wired networks with all the associated cost and emissions from the entire world.

            But some study found a tenuous link to cancer so you’ll hang on to that and everyone else is wrong.

          • Sacha

            "I’ve been through the issues here multiple times before"

            And yet you still will not shut up about it. Or cease bolding stuff as if that will make people listen to you any more.

            • One Two

              Bolding is a highlight feature which you have used yourself at 1.2.1

              Ask LP to remove the feature if you prefer others do not make use of the functions…

              And yet you still will not shut up about it.

              I will continue to respond when subject matter which is of interest to me, is posted…such as by A, earlier.

              Are you seeking to censor comments, sacha ?

              You certainly like to tell people how to use the highlight features…you do that on a regular basis…what’s with that…do you even understand what is behind your pedantry?

              Search the archives, you will find numerous links and other information which I have posted.. I am not going to continue to re-post every time one you you guys, with little to no understanding…and most often no genuine interest in actual discussions…

              If you were genuine, you would go and do the leg work…

              Off you go…and once you have, I’ll be pleased to engage …

              See ya.

              • Sacha

                Like pearls before swine….

              • higherstandard

                Ode to PhilU (aka The Magpies) – John Boy 2013

                The Magpies

                When Helen and Mickey ran the farm
                And socialists made us red
                Quardle oodle ardle wardle doodle
                Phil the magpie said.

                Helens hand was in strong control
                When Mickey stole our bread
                Quardle oodle ardle wardle doodle
                Phil the magpie said.

                Year in, year out they toiled away
                Their schemes filled us with dread
                Quardle oodle ardle wardle doodle
                Phil the magpie said.

                But all their lovely plans soon went
                Johnny owns the farm instead
                Quardle oodle ardle wardle squawk
                Phil the magpie said.

                WINZ is run by Paula now
                And its books are in the red
                Quardle oodle ardle squawk choke
                Phil the magpie said.

                The client list was checked right through
                Alarm bells they soon rang
                Quardle oodle squawk choke gulp
                Phil the magpie said.

                A fault was in the system too comfy was the nest
                It was the crafty magpie had ripped it off the best
                Early next monday morning a strident chime was heard
                Get up you lazy magpie, get up, get out of bed

                Oh bugger me its time for work
                Phil the magpie said.

                • joe90

                  Phil's last appearance at TS was shortly after his blog shut down.

                  And although he has his own obsessions, veganism, animal rights, weed, etc, I doubt Phil's quiet the chump Señor Poo appears to be.

                • marty mars

                  one two is not philu – phil is 100 times more coherent, likable and respected than one two.

                  • higherstandard


                  • Sacha

                    Both elliptic …

                  • JohnSelway

                    I must admit it is funny watching One Two not only call others out for name-calling but also his use of 'science' when it suits him then decrying that same science when it doesn't.

                    The cognitive dissonance is strong in this one

                  • Yep. The writing style's completely different, as are the areas of interest. I also can't picture Phil U lecturing people on how their puny brains aren't up to the task of understanding his awesome arguments. For all that we disagree on a lot of things, Phil is a friendly and engaging commenter whose personality comes through strongly, and I always enjoy a conversation with him (or did – haven't seen anything from him for ages). The only thing in common with OneTwo is overuse of ellipses.

              • greywarshark

                Give us a nice long break to do our legwork and we won't see ya.

                Said portentuously – We are going out, and may be some time.

        • Drowsy M. Kram

          According to research, a 60GHz mmWave outputting a whopping 50W/m2 of power (which wouldn’t be close to passing FCC regulations) only raises skin temperature by 0.8 degrees Celsius, which is below the IEEE standards temperature threshold of 1 degree Celsius for mmWave radiation guidelines.

          If we can limit the effects to 1.5 degrees of warming, then everything will be fine.

          • One Two

            Afternoon Drowsy…

            The so called standards and safety limits used globally are decades old…

            As you highlight in the quote, only refer to the outdated and unscientifically derived standards in the context of IR.

            Deliberately ignoring NIR

            Phone manufacturers have been outed by their handsets which generate radiation levels above the SAR limits…IR

            It is undeniable that the industry is deeply compromised.

            • Industry manufactured handsets generating IR above the SAR limits
            • Industry avoiding performing independent research on NIR effects on biology

            If we can limit the effects to 1.5 degrees of warming, then everything will be fine.

            The 1.5 degree figure is a guess, as are the so called wireless safety limits…so I'll assume you were tongue in cheek with that comment wink

            Many folk on this site who proclaim science are comfortable with industy use of unscientific methods so long as it endorses their bias…

            Have a good one.

  1. patricia bremner 2

    Why doesn't our Super fund or Acc fund buy our stock market darlings rather than let foreign hedge funds do that?

  2. James 3

    Farage seem to have the Brexit election in the bag (on current polling)

    and is starting to look very good for any potential general election.


    Excellent news.

    • "Excellent news." For whom? Satirists? Info Wars fans? Fellow authoritarian nationalists?

    • Bearded Git 3.2

      That poll has the split Brexit 49% Remain 48% (3%?) when you add the parties up.

      My guess is it when people vote it will swing back to something like Brexit 44% Remain 53% (3%?)

      That is the trend in other polls recently.

    • Dennis Frank 3.3

      Big swing against the two dinosaur establishment parties! I liked this: "despite the dominance of Brexit as an issue since the 2016 referendum, there was a significant proportion of voters who did not know each party’s position on it. The poll reveals 36% are not aware of the Conservative party’s stance, while 38% say the same about Labour."

      So more than a third of the electorate couldn't care less or finds trying to discern the mainstream party stances way too difficult.

  3. Milly 4

    Great support for the Palestinians today in London.


    I recommend those who support civil rights read John Wight’s letter to an Israeli soldier.


    • Shadrach 4.1

      "Marching from Portland Place to Whitehall, a diverse crowd chanted “Palestine will be free” and called for the right of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes, "

      What silly people. Palestine is free. It's called Israel. It's a parliamentary democracy, where citizens can vote whatever their race or creed. It's a place where the economy is thriving, and Arab and Jew live side by side. Unfortunately, this country has neighbours run by terrorists, whose sole aim is to drive this modern nation into the sea. They won't succeed, but they are getting a lot of people killed while they fail.

      • Psycho Milt 4.1.1

        Always great to see someone enjoying a rich fantasy life.

        • Shadrach

          Ever been to Israel?

          • Psycho Milt

            God, no. Never been to Saudi Arabia either, nor to South Africa under Apartheid, nor Germany under fascism, nor the USSR, nor many other severely fucked-up places. I've been able to gain an informed opinion about those places regardless though, what with the invention of writing an' all that.

            • Shadrach

              Israel is an amazing country. Vibrant. Prosperous. Free. Unlike some of it's neighbours.

              • Yeah, people used to say that about Apartheid-era South Africa, too. Same principle as people saying Cuba has great health care, or Hitler built great autobahns – kind of missing the point.

                • Shadrach

                  Israel is an incredibly successful country, despite efforts by some of its neighbours to destroy it. Not sure what your beef is.

  4. New Zealand Immigration still on the rise appears Winston and NZF have not been able to pull back Labour's desire for more immigrants, so I guess we still have a Housing Crisis with few homes being built under the Kiwibuild Scheme ?


  5. Milly 6

    59% of the UK’s population support radical action to mitigate climate change..

    8% oppose it.

    I’d call that a strong mandate!


    • BM 6.1

      Of course, people back cutting greenhouse gas emissions, greenhouse gases are bad, who would be pro more greenhouse gases?

      What they won't back is what's required to achieve that.

      People are travelling overseas more than at any time in history the size of peoples cars is getting larger, more electrical appliances, huge houses if you afford them.

      Consumerism is still rampant and growing every year.

      These are not the actions of a population that is serious about climate change.

      Banning one-use plastic bags and straws is about the limit of sacrifice for most people.

      • Pat 6.1.1

        sad but largely accurate

      • Peter 6.1.2

        I have to agree with you, over Easter I and a group of friends got together all men we do this once a year and we solve all the worlds problems over a bottle or two of whisky anyway the question of global warming came up.

        1. Are you willing to give up your cars. Answer NO what about electric cars? to dear and none of them by new cars, also if you buy one and the batteries are on the way out you mite have to pay $15,000 for new batteries

        2. Will you stop eating meat. Answer NO some are willing to cut back.

        3. Will we stop cutting down trees around the world. Answer NO is it fare to ask people not to cut down trees and stay poor after we have cut down ours.

        4. Should we stop using plastic. Answer NO its to useful a product but could be cut back a huge amount all agreed to that one.

        5. Should we stop flying. Answer NO they all said they only fly at the most every 3 – 5 years so they don’t believe they make much of a difference.

        Not looking good is it.

        By the way most of then are Tories.

        • Milly

          I don’t imagine people will be given the choice soon.

          The world will not tolerate the middle class’s refusal to make sacrifices over their luxuries while our future is forfeited.

      • Milly 6.1.3

        I agree with you about our reckless consumerism.

        As Christine Rose wrote over at the Daily Blog, “Heaven forbid that they might forego cell phones to save ancient rain forests in the Congo. Or products with palm oil to save Orangutans, or give up net caught fish for Māui and Hector’s dolphins.


        The solution of course may not be popular for liberals.

        It requires emergency laws, as were set during wartime, to enforce rationing and sacrifice.

        The solution won’t be popular for the rich.
        It will require the appropriation of their land and assets for the common good.

        System change.

        Not climate change.

    • mauī 6.2

      Wonderful, thank you Milly.

    • Dennis Frank 7.1

      Appealing to sensible centrists – a no-brainer, one would have thought. Political correct stances are proving too marginal to be politically effective. Watch for the copycat syndrome to kick in – contagion may render multicultural idealism irrelevant.

      • greywarshark 7.1.1

        Balance in policies and behaviour is required more each day in our present troubles which will roll on and expand. So going beyond that would enable attacks on people who are different. That is a very serious matter and Denmark citizens with a cool brain would resist an unreasonable ban.

        Wasn't there a story from WW2 about adopting the wearing of the yellow star identifier for Jews. (Sounded good, but it never got further than a comment from what I have read.) But the thought was there and Denmark registered in people's minds as superior people of integrity. But this report is alarming, maybe it is badly worded:

        These include a law allowing jewellery to be stripped from refugees, a burqa and niqab ban, mandatory handshakes irrespective of religious sentiment at citizenship ceremonies, and a plan to house criminal asylum seekers on an island used for researching contagious animal diseases.

        A law was passed in Denmark in 2018 dealing with the women's head covering so this is not a new measure, though mention of stripping jewellery does seem to be. I think this might arise from strict rules about religious symbols being banned in schools as introduced in France, which also has the full head covering ban. (That approach is a bit like us banning gang patches being displayed in public places of overt signs of divergent group identity.)

        …in Denmark, Europe, a ban on wearing face veils in public came into force on 1 August 2018. It joins France and some other European countries to pass such a ban. Denmark's Justice Minister Søren Pape Poulsen said: "We must also be able to see each other's facial expressions, it's a value in Denmark."
        https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/24118241 What's the difference between a hijab, niqab and burka? 8/8/2019

        The word 'stripping' is scary; mandatory handshakes is unreasonably autocratic, why not say joining hands, which would be indicate goodwill; why emphasise the ban on clothing* covering the face, without stating the acceptable which is hijab. The law should state that the ban is against clothing that makes the wearer anonymous which is not acceptable in a society that tries to be open and respectful of people facing up to others.

        Here are links relating to legislation introduced by the French. https://www.quora.com/Why-is-it-forbidden-to-wear-any-religious-objects-in-France and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ban_on_face_covering

        also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laicite

        * The niqab is a veil for the face that leaves the area around the eyes clear. However, it may be worn with a separate eye veil. It is worn with an accompanying headscarf. (The eye veil may cover the eyes, so it becomes like a short burka.)

        The burka is the most concealing of all Islamic veils. It is a one-piece veil that covers the face and body, often leaving just a mesh screen to see through.

  6. greywarshark 8


    Fire in a timber yard at Mt Maunganui. Fire needs a lot of water to put out and if foam has to be used this leaves toxicity. Timber is a crucial resource in short supply. Fire, slackness about dealing with likely starters, and also arsonists whether stupid playing with matches – kids, or whether malicious or mentally disturbed, have to be curbed. Their damage to society is worse than murder.

  7. BM 9

    If anyone is interested in keeping updated with what's happening with the Kiwi Build debacle


    It's a date sorted list of every article/press realease that's been written about Kiwibuild.

    • Problem is land, materials, compliance costs and labour costs has make it too expensive to build affordable homes here in NZ, you can thank the previous National & Labour Governments for ramping up immigration and the wholesale sale of NZ real estate to overseas investors. No thought given to the lower, middle class New Zealanders and local home ownership.

      • BM 9.1.1

        I agree completely, it's been an utter disaster for New Zealand.

        The problem we have is the career politicians that fill all political parties, policies and decisions are been made for career longevity not for what's good for the country.

        Immigration is back around record levels, this is not what Labour and NZ First promised at the last election?

        The government should be getting crucified for that by the media, but not a word

        • Skunk Weed

          Like +100% interesting to see what plans Labour & NZF come up with in the near future, not much news on this front despite more migrants coming into NZ ?

          • BM

            Why do we need more immigrants?

            As for the lack of skilled workers bullshit, NZ has probably the most overqualified baristas and service station attendants in the world.

            The reason being is that New Zealand businesses are not interested in hiring Kiwi's when you can source overseas candidates at a far cheaper rate and with more skills than the locals

            No business is interested in training either, so we're ending up in a situation where all the immigrants are taking the skilled jobs and young Kiwis have to either head overseas to get work in their qualified field or take some low paid low skilled position just to make some money so they can survive.

            • Sacha

              It would certainly be interesting to see more media focus on how our companies stopped training staff and expecting the state to do it for them instead.

              • Interesting decision by National and Nick Smith to get rid of the Apprenticeship Schemes here in NZ, we used to have some of the best tradesmen in the world, carpenters, plumbers, electricians, boilermakers etc

                These trades were highly sought after particularly in Australia.

                Now days employers do not want to train staff and would rather bring i trained migrants from overseas ?

        • cleangreen

          BM yes we saw the Media not ever attacking National either when they made the same deep damaging decisions 2008 to 2017.

          So the media is crap today ,and is just another lapdog run by corporations for their financial gains only.

          • Shadrach

            Today the media is besotted with a PM who looks good but achieves almost nothing. Whatever happens, don't bite the hand that feeds you. That's their motto.

            • gsays

              …achieves almost nothing..

              My pay has gone up with a new Prime Minister.
              Also my super annuitant mother has received a winter warming allowance.
              Not to forget I get a say about cannabis next election.

              • Shadrach

                Pay rates went up under the last government. And the previous one to that. So what? Do you think JA pays you wages now?

            • Psycho Milt

              I guess that's an advance on 2008-16, in that the current prime minister looks good.

      • greywarshark 9.1.2

        Also blame the selling of forests, our raw material for housing, and allowing big business to monopolise supplies and we were then made to compete with the export prices to buy our own resource back.

        The big company owning it is practically foreign-owned though still presenting itself as a Kiwi-icon. Bah – it is poor strategic planning all along by people whose salary, assets and personal relationships would be boosted by selling out our sovereignty and control of our own resources to the gold-seeking men and women of the world. In return we got a golden shower!

        • Skunk Weed

          Fletcher and Carter's (ie Graham Hart) oligopolies in the Building Trade screwing New Zealanders on timber and material prices, sanctioned by the Commerce Commission ?

      • cleangreen 9.1.3

        100% skunk weed bang on correct.smiley

        Simple economics of foreign money has shafted us all.

  8. cleangreen 10

    For all those mothers in our NZ time zone it is mothers day; – so…. Press release by Citizens Environmental Advocacy Centre. 12th May 2019.

    Mother’s day edition. – “wellbeing” consensus, climate change – all in one here folks

    Happy birthday to all mothers as we fight for our collective ‘wellbeing’.

    Our HB/Gisborne community is still awaiting the Labour coalition promises made to us all in 2016 in the Gisborne Herald. Three parties all now in Labour coalition had promised restoration of our rail services that the National Government has allowed to become partly washed out in 2012 by a lack of funding for rail maintenance to keep the infrastructure free of damages from any storms.

    This service was already under community restoration as industry was wanting more freight services then in 2011 when in December the HBRC had evidence that more freight was wanted to be carried on Gisborne rail in a press release 21st December 2011 entitled “At risk rail can’t cope”. (links are all provided below" http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/6170590/At-risk-rail-line-can-t-cope-with-demand

    We are claiming our right to have our rail services restored by this new Labour Coalition Government under the new “wellbeing budget policy. https://www.labour.org.nz/wellbeingbudget Benefits to our wellbeing;

    This promise will see Government reducing carbon emissions and increasing infrastructure under two of the ‘five priorities’ using – Boosting Innovation, & Creating Opportunities . QUOTE; “Alongside GDP, we will measure ourselves against five key priorities that will make real improvements to the lives of New Zealanders.

    We’ve used evidence to identify the five areas we can make the greatest difference. Boosting Innovation, Creating Opportunities, Backing Māori & Pasifika, Supporting Mental Health, Improving Child Wellbeing. Please Government give us in HB/Gisborne back our Gisbone Rail as you are doing already in most other provinces, such as Wairarapa, Tananaki, Canterbury, Otago, Westland, Waikato and Northland. –

    So we await your response in the new GPS called "wellbeing budget" https://www.labour.org.nz/wellbeingbudget http://www.scoop.co.nz/…/PA1302/S00183/kiwirail-admits-lack-of-maintenance-led-to-wash-out.htm


    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/6170590/At-risk-rail-line-can-t-cope-with-demand end.

  9. Sacha 11

    Good article on the numbers behind the Nat party's leadership troubles:

  10. Sacha 13

    PM Ardern's op-ed in the New York Times backgrounding the Christchurch call to action she is convening in Paris: https://nyti.ms/2VhtdqG

  11. The Chairman 14

    Look, I don’t like most of the right wing pundits either, but if your ‘hate speech’ threshold is Mike Hosking, then you are the threat to democracy, not Mike bloody Hosking.


    • Incognito 14.1

      A censorship panel? Ok …

      • The Chairman 14.1.1

        Yes, seems that is a growing perception Labour is creating. And they've only just started.

        • Incognito

          Uhhmmm, exactly who is creating this perception?

            • Incognito

              Thanks, but that didn’t answer my question except to add the name of Matthew Hooton to Martin Bradbury and The Chairman.

              If this panel is indeed about censorship, as alleged by some, doesn’t it strike you as odd that the Classification Office, the Broadcasting Standards Authority, or the Human Rights Commission, for example, appear to be ‘excluded’ from the panel?

              • The Chairman

                You asked, exactly who is creating this perception? And the link provided supplied those details. Clearly, it is coming from the top.

                Jacinda said the global community should "speak with one voice" when it comes to blocking harmful content on social media platforms.

                The problem, thus growing concern with that statement is what exactly does she deem to be harmful content? Couple that with the outbursts of the woke left within, people are becoming concerned.

                If the Government weren't so out of touch they would know they have to tread more carefully if they don't want this negative perception to further grow.

                If one wanted to circumvent human rights, current classifications and broadcasting standards to bring in a more profound form of censorship, it would make total sense. Which of course adds to the negative perception being created.

                • marty mars

                  "Couple that with the outbursts of the woke left within, people are becoming concerned."

                  lol righties getting concerned – sure they are people, I'll grant you that, and yeah they may be YOUR kind of people, I think that is a given but their concern is as false as yours. It is whisper thin, this grave concern from people, and is really just another nailed bat to hit the left with. YOU and your mates are concerned? Good be very fucken concerned buddyboy, be very concerned rightie.

                  • The Chairman

                    Open your other eye, marty. This concern is also coming from the left. As shown in my post at 14 today.

                    The woke left are a small subset doing more damage to the left than good.

                    People on the left tend to value freedom of speech just as much as those on the right tend too. So it’s not a left vs right fight.

                    • Sacha

                      Posting snuff videos on facebook is not 'speech' that needs protecting. Certainly not a left/right thing.

                      The only people trying to turn this govt's proposed specific action against such stuff into cries of 'censorship' are histrionic manbabies who feel oppressed whenever an adult sets some boundaries.

                      Let’s not coddle them any further.

                    • The Chairman

                      It's the actions of the Government via the lack of diversity in the make up of its advisory group and the related uncertainty around what they deem to be hate speech/harmful content (coupled with the outbursts of the woke left) that is stirring concerns of wide ranging censorship.

                    • marty mars

                      fuck you and your 'woke left' you bullshit artist – go away with your right wing mates and have a wankathon you dim

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      Apparently the Government's either 'too cold' (not enough Kiwibuild homes), or 'too hot' (excessive censorship), but there must be some things they’ve got ‘just right’, right?

    • Muttonbird 14.2

      Error 404 – Not Found. The page you were looking for does not exist. Try searching below…


      • Incognito 14.2.1

        Remove “&nbsp” at the end of the link.

        • greywarshark

          That looks like a rude remark from the computer. How long will it be until we get to the stage where the smart computer wants to enter into discussions?

          • Incognito

            A smart computer is an oxymoron.

            It came from the WordPress Editor.

          • The Chairman

            This "smart computer" is off to go have dinner with me lovely mum, thus will have to leave entering into further discussions till later.

            Ta ta.

        • Muttonbird

          No thanks!

  12. cleangreen 15

    Goodwill has been created by the promises made by "The wellbeing Budget".?


  13. greywarshark 16

    No Right Turn notes Peter Dunne spluttering about the lack of commitment from the government to cannabis reform.


  14. joe90 17

    Could've been worse, apparently.


    The Cuban government announced Friday that it is launching widespread rationing of chicken, eggs, rice, beans, soap and other basic products in the face of a grave economic crisis.

    Commerce Minister Betsy Diaz Velazquez told the state-run Cuban News Agency that various forms of rationing would be employed in order to deal with shortages of staple foods. She blamed the hardening of the U.S. trade embargo by the Trump administration.


    • vto 17.1

      So the Americans are intentionally starving people, like they claim North Korea does.

      The USA is out of control – a completely rogue state, kicking, lying and bullying its way around the world. What a bunch of c%#&s

    • Skunk Weed 17.2

      You must be joking ?

      • greywarshark 17.2.1

        You might be embargoed if you rock the boat! And not allowed any toast and cheese till you reneg.

  15. One Two 18

    Removal of gelatin from live vaccines and DTaP—an ultimate solution for vaccine-related gelatin allergy

    From the early 1990s infants started to receive acellular pertussis vaccine combined with diphtheria and tetanus toxoids (DTaP) before live vaccines such as measles, rubella, and mumps vaccines, which contained gelatin as a stabilizer.

    Then, an increasing number of cases of anaphylactic/allergic reactions to those live vaccines were reported. Almost all these cases had a previous history of receiving three or four doses of DTaP containing gelatin.Anaphylactic/allergic reactions to live measles vaccine were analyzed using information obtained from the Reporting System, a retrospective study, as well as from the Monitoring System, a prospective study.

    Dramatic decreases in anaphylactic/allergic reactions to live measles vaccines were observed immediately after each manufacturer marketed gelatin-free or gelatin (hypo-allergic)-containing live measles vaccine, and since the end of 1998 reports on anaphylactic/allergic reactions to live measles vaccine have almost ceased.

    Evidence that Food Proteins in Vaccines Cause the Development of Food Allergies and Its Implications for Vaccine Policy

    • The IOM’s confirmation is the latest and most authoritative since Dr. Richet’s discovery.
    • Many vaccines and injections contain food proteins. Many studies since 1940 have demonstrated that food proteins in vaccines cause sensitization in humans.
    • Allergens in vaccines are not fully disclosed.
    • No safe dosage level for injected allergens has been established. As a result, allergen quantities in vaccines and injections are not regulated.

    Excipients Included in U.S. Vaccines

    Excipient animal derived products and National Immunisation Schedule vaccines (updated August 2017) – NZ

  16. Sacha 19

    Teachers call biggest strike in NZ history as govt refuses any more than $300m/yr between all of them. https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/389027/nz-primary-and-secondary-teachers-vote-for-largest-ever-strike

    • James 19.1

      Must be part of the year of delivery. No other government has been able to deliver strikes of this magnitude.

      • In Vino 19.1.1

        Sheer fantasy – this is probably the most pathetic strike ever, because it lasts only one day. How does a strike of one pathetic day achieve anything?

        The obedient media play along and sensationalise it, and naïve teacher unionists imagine that they have had a real impact.

        Hasn't worked well in the past, and won't work well this time.

        The problem is that teachers don't have the willpower or political understanding to make an effective strike. They dream up ways of making ineffective strikes that don't cost them too much salary.

        • Muttonbird

          Lol. Empty classrooms for a week or two would have everyone sit up and notice, that's for sure.

        • marty mars

          That one day will affect a lot of people and will bring tremendous pressure to bear. Not sure if it will change anything sadly and I do wish we paid teachers much more because they deserve it.

        • Anne

          The obedient media play along and sensationalise it, and naïve teacher unionists imagine that they have had a real impact.

          Too true. Once the dust settles I think they might lose a lot of the goodwill that was previously theirs.

          They know the reason for the situation is due to nine years of neglect under National.

          They know there is only one size cake available and yet are demanding more than their fair share all at once – unlike other sectors whose needs are just as great but they have accepted that their claims can only be incrementally met over a period of two to three years.

  17. greywarshark 20


    If Justin Lester can include a 'wet house' for alcoholics which would enable them to have very limited alcohol available in controlled conditions, it would help with reducing homelessness for these poor people. Their lives, minds, motivations have been destroyed. If they could be kept sober, they might be able to undertake gardening, growing food for the facility, and gain some self-worth and value to society in their own small way. In 'dry houses' they tend to wander away and just deteriorate into drunken blobs, smelly ones too. Addicts of other drugs might also be helped.

    <i>"The numbers are relatively small – they fluctuate between 50 and 70 – so we're going to build enough supportive living units so there's no good reason someone has to be on the streets."

    Earlier this year the council announced 40 supported living units would be part of a development built in partnership with Housing New Zealand.</i>

    I don't know if his figures include alcoholics etc. but there is no use in applying simple solutions like 'no good reason someone has to be on the streets'. Reason doesn't come into it; these people have been encouraged to drink by the NZ drinking culture, bars open 24 hours or till late, so their money can be drained from them. The outcome is the ruined life, and the habit-formed mind that drives the person to more Chateau Cardboard or his/her usual tipple.

    They need more than supported living, they need supervision and regular meals, timetables, expectations and limits. Then the person still inside can emerge and find their legs and greet the day, get some life and cheer and do something they can find satisfactory.

    (I don’t know why I have to be in moderation. I find the code very clunky – indicating a double space takes up a lot of code.)

  18. joe90 21

    Bing back Roman numerals!.

  19. R.P Mcmurphy 23

    totally cheesed off at yesterdays editorial in the dompost on saturday morning.

    half the leader page given to dunkin garna to rubbish trevor mallard and accuse him of bias and being unfair.


    I have watched the proceedings of the house for some time now and speaker mallard has bent over backwards to be fair to the nationals and give them directions.

    It shows something about the nationals party after 9 long years they have forgotten the rules of debate, parliamentary procedure and good behaviour.

    the last speaker was sly arrogant supercillious and a slimy toad.

    it is a breath of fresh air to have someone like mallard who will give everyone a fair go.

  20. greywarshark 25

    TDB has more current hotties up at the moment than you could poke a stick at.

    Here is one. from John Minto: Open Letter to Winston Peters. https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2019/05/10/open-letter-to-winston-peters/

    We are appalled the government appears to be considering an even closer relationship with Israel despite the ongoing theft of Palestinian land, the ongoing brutal Israeli military occupation of the West Bank and the siege of Gaza while Israel continues to thumb its nose at international law and United Nations resolutions.

    On 30 April pro-Zionist lobbyist Mark Jennings wrote an opinion piece on the Newsroom website in which he says:

    “The new relationship comes as New Zealand and Israeli governments look close to signing an innovation agreement which will formalise the developing relationship”

    (It seems to me that money is self-cleansing, teflon coated, self-laundered by any short exposure to light. And let us see if Winston Peters, the ambivalent, ambi-dextrous man who can work deals with both left and right hands at the same time, can break that old saying about 'the lefthand not knowing what the righthand is doing'. Can Peters put the kibosh on Callaghan innovation to stop this hutzpah?)

  21. Kia ora The AM Show.

    I would like to see that's study on dolphins catching a dease from cats and dieing from a dease from a cat washed down the waterways was the study conducted in NZ it needed to be reviewed. It is humans who are causing the loss of the Maui dolphin.

    It will good the tech sites being retained to stop hate speach. It is a good idea the leaders summit in France hope they are taking about the real threat Artifical Intelligents

    I say our Coalition Government is doing a good job cleaning up the mess left by others . They gave funding to students many other good changes to the system. I'm not commenting on the school strike.

    Can't comment on the boxing story.

    The last whare I had the rents went up 3 times in 2 years.

    I say txing and driving is disrespectful you are disrespecting your own life and everyones life in your vicinity while driving life is presious.

    I do look at my pH while driving but I pull over and answer it if its important.

    Our Queen has been a monga for the common people of the Common Wealth I really like her championing forest canopies around the Papatuanukue.

    Like I have said te Papatuanukue stars don't like someone I say that heaps of wealth people do what Felicity did to advance her tamariki future.?????.

    Ka kite ano

  22. Ka kite ano Bro

  23. Some Eco Maori Music for the minute.

  24. Some Eco Maori Music for the minute.

  25. Kia ora Newshub.

    Just so long a this site is not affected from the social media clamp down in Paris. I do agree that the footage of the Christchurch desaster should not have been played live on Facebook I did not believe it at first I heard it on a radio the next day my tamariki said it was on Facebook WTF.

    That's the way m8 I say no more

    Waitomo has good fuel to it was expensive for fuel when I was down in Wellington a few years ago the government needs to make sure no one gets a monopoly duopoly in any market in Aotearoa.

    Vodafone being sold let Tau toko Vodafone if spark gets to big our cost will not come down as fast with spark getting a monopoly will be bad for Aotearoa. Ka kite ano

    My Internet link keeps going down?????

  26. Kia ora Te ao Maori News.

    Sir Heke Poroporoake would have been good to hear the storys about Heke.

    I will be going home to attend one very close to ECO Maori I will have a lot of good stories to tell.

    I don't think that not having hot water in school hand washing for the toilet is a big issue where is all these negative issue coming from??? so long as there is soap it will be fine I have not heard of skin problems because of not having hot water.

    Its good that people are going overseas to pay their respect to our fallen tipuna in war 1 and 2.

    Ka kite ano

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  • Speech to inaugural Countering Terrorism Hui
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  • Farewelling sports administrator and philanthropist Sir Eion Edgar
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