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Open mike 12/06/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 12th, 2016 - 105 comments
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openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

105 comments on “Open mike 12/06/2016 ”

  1. Pasupial 1

    There’s apparently quite a good hospital in Flannel.

  2. Tony Veitch (not the partner-bashing 3rd rate broadcaster) 2

    I’ve just waded through 2hours and 25 minutes of the below link on rigging in the American primaries, and some of it was slow and difficult viewing.

    What did I gather for my pains?

    First, that the main speakers, Bob Fitrakis, Cliff Arnebeck and Lori Grace seemed quite adamant that a legal challenge will be mounted on voter manipulation and fraud and that Bernie will be the candidate to oppose Donald Trump.

    Well, that remains to be seen, though it would be great – for America, for democracy and for the world.

    The other insight I got is that either Trump or Clinton could win the election if they are the candidates. Clinton, because she is a known quantity and the establishment is quite comfortable with her. She’s well bought and paid for. She’ll do as she’s told. Trump, though he’s an idiot, he still might make it because his chief of staff is a known and skilled vote rigger. The Donald is so inexperienced that the establishment will have no trouble keeping him under control.

    There’s no doubt in my mind that this will be the best presidential election that money can buy.


    • tc 2.1

      And what vast sums they are, estimates I’ve heard put the dark money in super pacs etc up from the 2bill 4 years back to be 10bill this time around.

    • mac1 2.2

      “The Donald is so inexperienced that the establishment will have no trouble keeping him under control.” They thought this about a certain racist, xenophobic, hater in the Thirties in Germany. He had a very good propaganda man, too.

  3. In case you didn’t the catch the (as usual) terrible job Mike Williams did of attacking Hooton over the budget on nine to noon a couple weeks ago….

    No wonder the Left can’t make any ground, when this is one our main spokespeople.

  4. Tory 4

    Tony V, Sanders lost not because of $ (he has plenty himself) or allegations of voter manipulation but he was essentially an independent in a 2 horse race.
    As for comments about Mike Williams, clearly the left can’t foot it with Matthew H which is why I enjoy Monday mornings at 11.05am

    • Adrian 4.1

      You have got to be joking, the Left can’t foot it with the right…what!
      There is good reason why left wing intellectuals rarely get interviewed or debated on mainstream media, because they ALWAYS destroy the right’s flimsy narrative, and dodgy stats.
      That is exactly why I am so amendment that Mike Williams leave RNZ, firstly because he is not a voice for the left, at best, maybe a voice from the centre (whatever that is), secondly he is certainly no Left wing intellectual.

      See what happens on mainstream media when the right debate Left wing intellectuals


  5. Paul 5

    Another day in John Key’s neo-liberal nightmare.
    We have become a cruel, greedy, uncaring and selfish nation under his wretched leadership.

    And the Herald appears to have woken up to this.

    ‘Homeless pose a test of our humanity’

    James Gavet, a professional rugby league player with the Warriors, and his sister Riverlina, shows the best of our country.
    Paula Bennett shows us the worst of our country.


  6. joe90 6

    And we’re off…

    deray mckesson Verified account

    Jesse Jackson endorses Hillary Clinton

  7. William 7

    Yesterday the Dompost had a full page feature “Who wants to be Wellington’s mayor?” which summarises the candidate’s platforms.


    One of the candidates is Jo Coughlan. The article says
    “Coughlan believes Wellingtonians are frustrated. They feel let down by a lack of leadership, which led to the demise of the Basin Reserve flyover in 2014 and the never-ending battles over the Island Bay cycleway, she says.

    “They’ve been let down on roading, they’ve been let down on a billion dollars worth of roading investment and we need to correct that.”

    She’s also quoted
    “I’ll be wanting to lead a forward-focused, progressive council that isn’t afraid to actually make these big decisions and get things done.”

    Compare this to a speech that Bill English gave earlier this month to business leaders in Porirua, which has many similarities.


    Is this a case of great minds think alike, or is this Double Dipping Bill using his position as Minister of Finance to spruik for his sister inlaw, because Jo Coughlan just happens to be married to his brother Conor.

    • mauī 7.1

      When she talks about wanting 100 years of growth, that’s not what the city needs nor does it reflect the reality that growth won’t be possible for large chunks of time. Most of the other candidates are talking the same talk, build something new and shiny that people don’t really need. It will be interesting to see how good that $1 billion roading investment is when people won’t be able to afford to fill up in a decade or two.

      • William 7.1.1

        Indeed. If there’s any doubt about her roading fetish, she has a large billboard visible to southbound traffic approaching the Terrace Tunnel. At the bottom it states “1 for Mayor” where the “1” is denoted by the red shield used to label our state highways.
        She is also very keen on “an ‘iconic’ cycleway around the harbour” rather than building cycleways that are part of transport infrastructure. There’s an irony there because the recent Morrison Low Report (which she erroneously claimed credit for instigating) warns about that.
        From page 10.

        11: NZ Transport Agency’s interest is in cycling broadly, e.g.
        utility cycling (inter vs intra suburb) as well as
        recreational and commuter cycling. Some have
        perceived that the UCP is more narrowly focussed on
        recreational cyclists. WCC’s programme and funding
        needs to be positioned as a longer term programme of
        integrated transport network improvements.

        • DoublePlusGood

          Thanks for that. It’s always really hard to get a feel for the political and policy positions of candidates for local government positions, so it’s nice to get a good picture of where Coughlan stands (so that I don’t accidentally rank her highly out of ignorance).

  8. weka 8

    Not sure what to make of this. Reliable source or rumourmongering?

    The latest internal polling has National free falling to 44%, Labour at 31% and Greens at 12%.

    That means the Labour-Green bloc is at 43% and National is on 44% – that’s a mere 1 percent lead and the speed of the turn around suggests something has snapped in terms of voter apathy.


    • It’s sadly meaningless, Weka. There’s no attribution so its most likely an internal poll of Bomber’s keyboard.

      • weka 8.1.1

        How could someone attribute a leaked internal poll?

        • te reo putake

          By saying where it’s from.

          • weka

            So if Bomber has said he got this from a National Party leak it would have been more reliable?

            • te reo putake

              No, not really. It wouldn’t much matter where it’s from; Nats, Labour, Greens or wherever. But not saying where it’s from and only giving figures for 3 parties suggest he’s plucked this gem out of his nether regions.

              • Colonial Viper

                It’s a good sign that LAB/GR is neck and neck with National polling, it means that Winston could be cut out of the picture. Why do you think this is a problem?

                • One Anonymous Bloke


                • The problem is it appears to be bullshit. Anybody can make numbers up. Here’s some: 12, 87, 4. I’m not saying where I got them from or even which is which, but hey, they’re terrific numbers!

                  • Colonial Viper

                    OK, so you don’t believe that TDB has access to contacts who have seen internal polling numbers from anywhere, and therefore these numbers are entirely fictional?

                    Not doubting you, but wondering why you don’t think its plausible that LAB/GR have had a bump up and NATs a bump down, due to the MOU.

                    • Bomber

                      I believe TRP also initially called my blog on the pony tail pulling as a hoax I had invented and then spent the next 10months back peddling when the PMs Office confirmed it within hours.

                      [Nope. I urged caution in my post on the matter because it seemed such an unlikely story. Within hours it was proved to be true, so fair do’s to ya. However, you don’t get to come over here and tell porkies, Bomber. What you do on your own site is your business, of course. I note you haven’t provided any evidence that your ‘poll’ is real, so I reckon your next comment should address that matter. TRP]

                    • It’s an entirely plausible result of the MoU and very welcome if its the case. If we take it that there was a 5 point gap on the day of the Greens conference, which was the figure being put about, then it only requires about 2% to turn away from National to get exactly this result. But there is no information at all about the poll, no hint of where it cam from, who conducted it, what the margin of error is or anything to suggest it’s anything other than Bomber’s best guess.

                      I did a quick search and he’s had a few posts like this, all based on supposed internal polling. Again, no details and no indication that the polling is dinkum. I just find it odd that he would expect readers to just take his word for it. We wouldn’t take Colmar Brunton’s word for it, would we?

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Cheers, Bomber. Trust you are having a good weekend.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      I note that Martyn’s comment provides no information about the origin of the polling figures, and doesn’t even deny they are fabricated.

                • BM

                  The only way Winston’s going to be cut out of the picture is if Lab/Greens get over 50% of the vote or National gets over 50% of the vote.

                  The likelier option out of those two is National and that’s looking rather unlikely at the moment.

                  Next Government will be a National/NZ first government, which too be honest is hardly surprising as NZ First is Nationals natural coalition partner, not Act/Dunne or Maori party.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Because of wasted votes you can probably get a majority in Parliament with 49% of votes.

                    But in principle I agree with you, and I still think it very unlikely that Labour will surpass 30%. Most likely party vote result 25% +/-3%. So yes you are right, the most probable result is that Winston is going to be king-maker. (BTW I see NZF adding MPs next election).

                    • BM

                      Looking forward NZ First will be the King maker for the next few elections as well, especially with the retirement of Key.

                      NZ First is the conservative wing of the National party, they’re a natural fit with National.

                      If Peters and Key can both work together and stitch up an initial deal I’d go as far to say the next two governments at least will be National/NZ First governments.

                      National around 40%, NZ First 15% or so, that’s a healthy majority that’s going to take a long time to over turn.

                  • b waghorn

                    Winston got knocked out of the game ( by filthy methods) in 08 so his base isn’t that reliable. If the tide turns he could vanish again.
                    5% of his vote is soft labour , that’s why labour should grow some and cut him loose.

                    • BM

                      Bit different this time around.

                      Aging population, ISIS, Muslims, Brexit, rapid multicultural change in NZ, expensive housing/land.

                      These are all issues some one like Peters can tap into and leverage to his advantage especially with the more conservative rural voter and disgruntled labour voter.

                    • weka

                      He’s less likely to go against his leftie voters this time though.

                      “Aging population, ISIS, Muslims, Brexit, rapid multicultural change in NZ, expensive housing/land.”

                      So long as Labour don’t do stupid shit like talking about raising the retirement age, their policies will appeal to enough of the people concerned about those things. If you are soft Labour and you think Peters will support National, why would you not vote Labour?

                    • b waghorn

                      He can’t do a thing about housing and the rest is pandering to xenophobic curtain twitching pearl clutchers .fuck them , labour should make them choose a side of the house.

                    • BM

                      If you are soft Labour and you think Peters will support National, why would you not vote Labour?

                      The Greens.

                    • weka

                      So they vote NZF, Peters goes with National and then his left wing voters punish him at the next election.

                    • Jenny

                      The way to deal with Winston Peters is to try and pin him down on the issues.

                      For instance the TPPA

                      Winston’s New Zealand First brand is nationalism. The TPPA is a clear infringement on New Zealand’s right as a sovereign nation to make its own laws.

                      To tie Winston Peters down to opposing the TPPA, which would put him offside with National and drive him closer to the Left, the Labour Party would first have to come out hard against the TPPA.

                      Which currently is not the case.

                      Radio Live’s Mark Sainsbury interviews Andrew Little to try to determine if the Labour Party does, or doesn’t support the TPPA.


                      Mark Sainsbury @03:45 minutes
                      “Can I just get something straight from you. You are opposed to us signing it. Does that mean that if you became Prime Minister.., Labour was in power.., you would either, pull out of the treaty if it exists, or refuse to ratify it.” [if it doesn’t]

                      Andrew Little @03:58 minutes
                      “Well, um. No.”
                      “Well hold on, we signed it long ago, it was a clerical exercise, it was.., it didn’t create the agreement, the agreement was already created.”
                      “Secondly, ratification will happen over the next two years, our argument is, [National] has the numbers regardless….,”

                      Mark Sainsbury @04:11 Minutes
                      “But, in two years time you could be Prime Minister Andrew Little.”

                      Andrew Little @04:15 minutes
                      “And so the question then is; Would we pull out of it, if it was ratified, all the other countries have ratified it….,”
                      “We won’t.”

                      Clear as mud.

                      If the TPPA hasn’t been ratified by the Nats by the time Labour is in government, Labour will ratify it.

                      If the TPPA has already been ratified by the Nats by the time Labour is in Government, Labour will not pull out of it.

                      It is in this greasy middle ground where Peters can avoid having to live up to his Nationalist New Zealand First principles, and side with Nats in selling out this country’s independence.

                      I could also say the same thing about Winston Peters support for deep sea oil drilling in Northland, which is another controversial issue that Winston Peters will never be drawn on, because the main opposition party, the Labour Party also supports deep sea oil drilling in Northland.

                      As I said, the way to deal with a slippery customer like Winston Peters would be to pin him down on the issues, that could separate him from the Nats.

                      Because this is unlikely to happen. Winston Peters will be given a free pass to side with National.

                  • Draco T Bastard

                    National hasn’t been NZFirsts natural coalition partner since ~1990 and the gap between them has been increasing ever since. Labour really does fit NZFirst far better.

                    • Karen

                      NZ First wasn’t formed until 1993 and went into coalition with National in 1996. Winston Peters and Ron Mark are both ex Nats who are basically old fashioned conservatives.

                      They could go either way but I suspect would be happiest with a confidence & supply agreement that enabled them to vote independently on most issues.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      NZ First wasn’t formed until 1993…

                      Yep, in response to National going hard neo-liberal.

                      …and went into coalition with National in 1996.

                      Probably in the same false assumption that BM made and we all know how it turned out.

                      Winston Peters and Ron Mark are both ex Nats who are basically old fashioned conservatives.

                      And, IMO, Labour is now pretty close to Old Fashioned Conservative.

                      They could go either way but I suspect would be happiest with a confidence & supply agreement that enabled them to vote independently on most issues.

                      Winston did say that last election but I get the feeling that they may be angling for something more this time but I could be wrong.

            • Graeme

              Not really, but if real it could explain the bizarre goings on over the last week

    • Colonial Viper 8.2

      I can imagine that Bradbury may have access to Greens or Labour internal polling via contacts or leaks. Unlikely National internal polling though.

  9. weka 9

    a new British startup called Score Assured has taken a big step in that direction: The company wants to, in the words of co-founder Steve Thornhill, “take a deep dive into private social media profiles” and sell what it finds there to everyone from prospective dates to employers and landlords.

    Its first product, Tenant Assured, is already live: After your would-be landlord sends you a request through the service, you’re required to grant it full access to your Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter and/or Instagram profiles. From there, Tenant Assured scrapes your site activity, including entire conversation threads and private messages; runs it through natural language processing and other analytic software; and finally, spits out a report that catalogues everything from your personality to your “financial stress level.”

    “If you’re living a normal life,” Thornhill reassures me, “then, frankly, you have nothing to worry about.”

    Oh, that’s alright then.


  10. Here is a 22 sec. video of a pure gravity and office fire driven steel framed high rise collapse:

    • b waghorn 10.1

      I watched zeitgeist on netflx the other day. I’ve had to switch to the uncertain camp on 911, from the it was the planes that caused the collapse camp.

      • McFlock 10.1.1

        Hey, another internet vid almost had me in the uncertain camp ten years ago. Then it turned out to be complete bunk.

        That’s the thing about connect-the-dots theories: one gets fixated on individual dots at the expense of the overall picture.

      • Rosie 10.1.2

        Me other ‘alf is a CAD designer (old fashioned term is draughtperson) who works on structural engineering projects.

        Reckons there is no way a plane could bring down such a building and believes in the bomb blast theory. I don’t disagree with him, especially after reading Amy Goodman’s (Co editor of Democracy Now!) book “The exception to the rulers”


        One chapter, can’t remember which one as it was so long ago that I read it, goes into the political climate in the US prior to 9/11 and how there was a desire from certain quarters for a “new pearl harbour” – there’s money in the military and fear is a good way to control a population. Goodman doesn’t go into WHAT happened and HOW but rather analyses the events prior. She leaves it up to the reader to make what they will of her facts. She also not one to make rash sensational claims so I trust her words.

        In saying that, I try to avoid mentioning three topics on TS, whose commenter’s I have a comradely fondness for but am happy to stay out of lengthy arguments around these three things.


        Fluoridation of water


        These topics seem to press buttons

        • travellerev

          You mean Amy Goodman here running away from Building 7 collapsing who will not touch the subject and is paid for by George Soros?


          • Rosie

            Can’t tell. Sound doesn’t seem to work for me.

            Like I said, Goodman only discussed the political climate prior to 9/11, nothing else. I don’t know who George Soros is. If she’s not touching the subject maybe it’s because she gets a hard time from the authorities:

      • travellerev 10.1.3

        It took me three months or so to get over my cognitive dissonance and finally admit that the Official CT was scientifically not possible.

        Here is a website from Architects and Engineers for a new and independent investigation into what happened on that day.

        • Kiwiri

          hi travellerev, can someone tell us what really boring and most uninteresting office(s) are in wtc7?

      • Andre 10.1.4

        Ok b, since you seem to be able to think things through, here’s my routine for things like this.

        First up, look for debunk information. Such as google for zeitgeist debunk or 9/11 debunk.

        When balancing the credibility of different scenarios, ask yourself what’s more probable: a cock-up involving a few people, or a conspiracy involving hundreds if not thousands of people, all of whom would be in deep deep shit if caught. Just ponder what would happen to anyone caught doing what the conspiracy theorists claim was done. How long would a conspiracy that large remain secret?

        What benefit would the conspirators get from it, and is there a better way to get that benefit? For instance, if the motive was to justify going after bin Laden, he was already linked to the World Trade Center bombing in 93, and considered responsible for bombing the US embassies in Nairobi and Dar-es-Salaam in 98, bombing the USS Cole in 2000, and a bunch of other stuff, so there’s already justification there. If more was needed, much easier (and safer) to just cook up some lies like the alleged WMDs in Iraq.

        Could the conspiracy scenario have actually happened? It seems extremely implausible that a huge quantity of thermite/explosives could have been planted without someone noticing something going on. I’m not aware of any reports of anyone claiming to have seen anything like that happening.

        It’s the old cliche of motive, means and opportunity. All of which seem to be implausible/missing for the conspiracy scenario.

        Finally, my training and professional expertise is fairly relevant to considering the building collapses. Everything I see in the videos, photos etc is convincingly explained and accounted for in the NIST and FEMA reports, and I can see obvious flaws in the conspiracy theorist claims I’ve seen.

        • Paul

          The 9/11 official story requires a conspiracy involving hundreds if not thousands of people. You realise the Bin Laden story is a conspiracy theory, don’t you?

        • Paul

          ‘What benefit would the conspirators get from it?’


          General Wesley Clark
          So I came back to see him a few weeks later, and by that time we were bombing in Afghanistan. I said, “Are we still going to war with Iraq?”
          And he said, “Oh, it’s worse than that.” He reached over on his desk. He picked up a piece of paper. And he said, “I just got this down from upstairs” — meaning the Secretary of Defense’s office — “today.” And he said, “This is a memo that describes how we’re going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran.”
          I said, “Is it classified?”
          He said, “Yes, sir.”
          I said, “Well, don’t show it to me.”
          And I saw him a year or so ago, and I said, “You remember that?” He said, “Sir, I didn’t show you that memo! I didn’t show it to you!

        • Colonial Viper

          Finally, my training and professional expertise is fairly relevant to considering the building collapses. Everything I see in the videos, photos etc is convincingly explained and accounted for in the NIST and FEMA reports, and I can see obvious flaws in the conspiracy theorist claims I’ve seen.

          Even the collapse of WTC7? Where a modern multi-story skycraper built in the 1980s was, as the official account insists, destroyed due to office and furnishings fires?

        • Paul

          ‘It seems extremely implausible that a huge quantity of thermite/explosives could have been planted without someone noticing something going on. I’m not aware of any reports of anyone claiming to have seen anything like that happening.’

          Radio interview with WTC employee Scott Forbes who says that there was an unusual power down in the top half of the WTC with suspicious workers coming in and out of building.

        • b waghorn

          I try to boil most things down to simple logic , and as you point out the big fish hook is how you demolish 3 buildings with out a single person spilling the beans.

          • Colonial Viper

            It’s a puzzling thing to civilians but there are organisations with teams throughout the world who do the kind of clandestine work which is not revealed for decades, if not longer.

            • Paul

              The Manhattan Project was one such secret project.

              • McFlock

                at least one spy ring within in the research facility leaked almost every detail to Stalin before even the broadest outline was declassified.

                • Paul

                  And ordinary civilians knew nothing.

                  • McFlock

                    For what – three years in a culture where everybody avoided aski questions?
                    Even then there were a large number of people with a pretty good idea of the broad strokes.

                    But no, you reckon that a government conspiracy of thousands with absolutely no leaks is as likely as a few dozen guys with visas and boxcutters.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Core conspiracy of 100 people or less.

                    • weka

                      Pretty hard to imagine in a world with the internet.

                    • McFlock

                      Oh, now you can calculate the HR needs of top-secret multi-building demolition jobs? Good for you.

                      Meanwhile: tewnty chaps to buy boxcutters and plane tickets. One or two to give them the ok and the cash.

        • Colonial Viper

          Could the conspiracy scenario have actually happened? It seems extremely implausible that a huge quantity of thermite/explosives could have been planted without someone noticing something going on.

          It seems extremely implausible that 2 jet planes could collapse three steel reinforced skyscrapers yet you have no problem with it.

          Also, micro-thermitic residue (‘red chips’ as they became known in microscope studies) was found throughout the dust from the Twin Towers. Is there another explanation for its presence?

          • Andre

            Just remember the tanks of the mind-control stuff they use to make chemtrails were also full. Who knows how hot that stuff burns?

            • Colonial Viper

              Hi Andre, I understand that you don’t want to look more closely at the issue. Even 9/11 Commission members said that they had been deliberately lied to or mislead.

            • Paul

              Are you prepared to look at the evidence or are you more interested in name calling?

              • Andre

                I’ve already spent way too much time looking at the evidence, from a point of view that’s deeply suspicious of the American military-industrial complex. Every claimed “smoking gun” I’ve seen has been adequately explained, by experts I’m satisfied aren’t tainted, yet they still get repeated by conspiracy theorists over and over again. So go ahead and present any evidence you want, but I’m really not interested in tracking down the debunk for you. If you manage to show me something I haven’t seen before and isn’t already adequately explained, then I’ll be interested and suspend the snarkiness.

                On a personal level, I worked in New Jersey until 96. I have friends that were deeply affected by 9/11 (no deaths or injuries, just psychologically). So I have a strong personal interest in honestly knowing what happened. Irresponsible bullshit conspiracy theories really piss me off, though.

                • Colonial Viper

                  I went up the Twin Towers the year before they came down. You’re not the only one with personal connection to the area.

                  If nothing else, you should respect the very many friends and families of the victims as well as thousands of professionals, engineers and scientists who have been calling for a true investigation of the events of 9/11.

                  • McFlock

                    I respect the opinions of the vast majority (what, greater than 95%?) of “professionals, engineers and scientists” who dhave not been recycling fantasies.

                    But feel free to keep treating the deaths of thousands as a personal hobby. It’s better than you offering medical advice.

                • One Two

                  Every claimed “smoking gun” I’ve seen has been adequately explained, by experts I’m satisfied aren’t tainted

                  That’s a strong position you’ve arrived at!

                  Do you know all the so called experts and their conflicts of interest ,intimately?

          • KJT

            Having gone over it with one of New Zealands top civil engineers.

            The buildings were toppled by the planes. Partly due to structural inadequacies.

            I will however concede this to the conspiracy theorists.
            We do not know who was ultimately behind the people who flew the planes into the towers. “False flag” operations are not unknown.

            But. It is very hard to keep things like that secret for long. Look at how we now know about, the CIA’s “regime changes”.

            • Paul

              Planes don’t cause buildings to collapse at freefall.
              And how does ‘your top engineer’ explain WTC7?
              Remember…the Bin Laden yarn is a conspiracy theory.

              • McFlock

                “at freefall”.
                Lie, repeatedly debunked.

              • McFlock

                Rev’s initial video post shows debris falling outside the building ahead of the collapsing bits.

                The debris is at freefall speed, and falling ahead of (faster than) the collapsing bits. Therefore the collapse is not at freefall speed.

                This is exactly the sort of liberty taken with the obvious that makes me go with NIST rather than the mistruthers.

            • Colonial Viper

              Did this top civil engineer discuss with you how WTC7, the third skyscraper, collapsed then.

    • Paul 10.2

      We know we were lied to about weapons of mass destruction, yet we refuse to question the same liars with regard to 9/11.

      • Colonial Viper 10.2.1

        There is a hybrid possibility where planning for a genuine terrorist attack was detected early on but essentially allowed to happen (or even facilitated in some ways) by authorities who wanted to take advantage of the shock and fear resulting from the event.

        Several of the Saudi 9/11 attackers appear to have gotten US visas from the US consulate in Jeddah, which was heavily staffed by CIA.

        For people who don’t think that the US Government – or a small part of it at least – would consider an operation like this as an option – simply google Operation Northwoods.

  11. joe90 11

    Problems, but not as some imagine.



  12. cogito 12

    The Guardian have written a piece on Max Key.

    ‘Got caught sleeping on Air Force One’: the lavish lifestyle of New Zealand PM’s son
    Instagram account of 21-year-old Max Key showcases a stream of luxurious properties and extravagant purchases


  13. Paul 13

    From the same article

    ‘His public profile is notably at odds with that of other children of world leaders, his Instagram account a stream of far-flung holiday destinations, luxurious properties – including the Keys’ multimillion-dollar Auckland home – and extravagant purchases.
    His self-promotional savvy is not exactly unusual: at 21, he’s a member of Generation Z, which came after the reportedly selfie-obsessed Millennials. With a full 90% of young adults aged 18 to 29 using social media, they’re comfortable with the public persona that goes with it, and the cost of maintaining that: basically phones out, at all times – even at the breakfast table.
    Max isn’t the only 21-year-old to celebrate his birthday by going out for brunch with his parents, nor to mark the occasion with a photo to post to Facebook. But very few share their happy-family snap with the 227,000 people who follow the prime minister, John Key.
    Max is used to the spotlight (though he did not respond to Guardian Australia’s email request for an interview).
    His parents often feature in his posts, with Max apparently aware of the interest in the private life of the prime minister – and doing, it seems, every bit to capitalise on it. He debuted his single, Forget You, on his first regular slot on Auckland local radio, titled Key’d In.’

  14. North 14

    It’s extraordinary ! Never, never before have we had a prime minister’s son sticking his cock out quite like the spawn of Prime Ponce ShonKey Python. Says it all really. How many New Zealand Government $$$$ are gonna be commandeered to support Crosby Textor’s “Max” account ?

    • Pat 15.1

      ah….see im a little late…..never mind, is so bad it deserves a double posting.

    • joe90 15.2

      …those two toed shoulders…do some work ya mug…

      • Gangnam Style 15.2.1

        The comments on the Guardian article, gold!

        • cogito

          This govt is very quick to point the finger at struggling young mums, the homeless and others for making “poor choices” and then you look at the sorts of vulgar choices and sickening decadent lifestyles that Key’s own family engage in.

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  • Keynote address to Chartered Accountants Australia and New Zealand conference
    Speech to the CAANZ conference - November 19, 2020 Thank you, Greg, (Greg Haddon, MC) for the welcome. I’d like to acknowledge John Cuthbertson from CAANZ, the Commissioner of Inland Revenue Naomi Ferguson, former fellow MP and former Minister of Revenue, Peter Dunne, other guest speakers and CAANZ members. I ...
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    23 hours ago
  • Expert independent advisory group appointed to strengthen the future of Māori broadcasting
    A panel of seven experts are adding their support to help shape the future of Māori broadcasting, Minister for Māori Development Willie Jackson has announced today. “Today I will meet with some of the most experienced Māori broadcasters, commentators and practitioners in the field. They have practical insights on the ...
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    1 day ago
  • Government to review housing settings
    New Zealand’s stronger-than-expected economic performance has flowed through to housing demand, so the Government will review housing settings to improve access to the market, the Finance Minister Grant Robertson announced today. “Our focus is on improving access to the housing market for first home buyers and ensuring house price growth ...
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    2 days ago
  • Crown accounts reflect Govt’s careful economic management
    The better-than-expected Crown accounts released today show the Government’s careful management of the COVID-19 health crisis was the right approach to support the economy. As expected, the Crown accounts for the year to June 2020 show the operating balance before gains and losses, or OBEGAL, was in deficit. However that ...
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    2 days ago
  • Community launch marks next step in addressing racism in education
    The launch of Te Hurihanganui in Porirua today is another important milestone in the work needed to address racism in the education system and improve outcomes for Māori learners and their whānau, Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis says. Budget 2019 included $42 million over three years to put Te Hurihanganui ...
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    2 days ago
  • Government to consider recommendations on DNA use in criminal investigations
    The Minister of Justice has received the Law Commission’s recommending changes to the law governing the way DNA is used in criminal investigations. The report, called The Use of DNA in Criminal Investigations – Te Whahamahi I te Ira Tangata I ngā Mātai Taihara, recommends new legislation to address how ...
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    2 days ago
  • Speech to Wakatū Nelson regional hui on trade
    First, I want to express my thanks to Te Taumata for this hui and for all the fantastic work you are doing for Māori in the trade space. In the short time that you’ve been operating you’ve already contributed an enormous amount to the conversation, and developed impressive networks.  I ...
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    2 days ago
  • Speech to Primary Industries Summit
    Thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today about the significant contribution the food and fibres sector makes to New Zealand and how this Government is supporting that effort. I’d like to start by acknowledging our co-Chairs, Terry Copeland and Mavis Mullins, my colleague, Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor, ...
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    2 days ago
  • Fast track referrals will speed up recovery and boost jobs and home building
    The Government is taking action to increase jobs, speed up the economic recovery and build houses by putting three more projects through its fast track approval process. “It’s great to see that the fast-track consenting process is working. Today we have referred a mix of potential projects that, if approved, ...
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    3 days ago
  • Papakāinga provides critically needed homes in Hastings
    A papakāinga opened today by the Minister for Māori Development the Hon Willie Jackson will provide whānau with much needed affordable rental homes in Hastings. The four home papakāinga in Waiōhiki is the first project to be completed under the ‘Hastings Place Based’ initiative. This initiative is a Government, Hastings ...
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    5 days ago
  • New Zealand ready to host APEC virtually
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern took over the leadership of APEC earlier today, when she joined leaders from the 21 APEC economies virtually for the forum’s final 2020 meeting. “We look forward to hosting a fully virtual APEC 2021 next year. While this isn’t an in-person meeting, it will be one ...
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    5 days ago
  • Revival of Māori Horticulturists
    The rapid revival of Māori horticulture was unmistakeable at this year’s Ahuwhenua Trophy Awards, with 2020 marking the first time this iconic Māori farming event was dedicated to horticulture enterprises. Congratulating finalists at the Awards, Māori Development Minister Willie Jackson said growing large-scale māra kai is part of Māori DNA. ...
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    6 days ago
  • Emergency benefit to help temporary visa holders
    From 1 December, people on temporary work, student or visitor visas who can’t return home and or support themselves may get an Emergency Benefit from the Ministry of Social Development, Social Development and Employment Minister Carmel Sepuloni announced today. Previously, temporary visa holders in hardship because of COVID-19 have had ...
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    6 days ago
  • School sustainability projects to help boost regional economies
    Forty one schools from the Far North to Southland will receive funding for projects that will reduce schools’ emissions and save them money, Education Minister Chris Hipkins announced today. This is the second round of the Sustainability Contestable Fund, and work will begin immediately. The first round announced in April ...
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    6 days ago
  • Farmer-led projects to improve water health in Canterbury and Otago
    More than $6 million will be spent on helping farmers improve the health of rivers, wetlands, and habitat biodiversity in Canterbury and Otago, as well as improving long-term land management practices, says Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor. Four farmer-led catchment group Jobs for Nature projects have between allocated between $176,000 and ...
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    6 days ago
  • Tupu Aotearoa continues expansion to Pacific communities in Nelson, Marlborough, Tasman & Northl...
    Pacific communities in Nelson, Marlborough, Tasman and Northland will benefit from the expansion of the Tupu Aotearoa programme announced today by the Minister for Pacific Peoples, Aupito William Sio. The programme provides sustainable employment and education pathways and will be delivered in partnership with three providers in Northland and two ...
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    6 days ago
  • New primary school and classrooms for 1,200 students in South Island
    Education Minister Chris Hipkins unveiled major school building projects across the South Island during a visit to Waimea College in Nelson today. It’s part of the Government’s latest investment of $164 million to build new classrooms and upgrade schools around the country. “Investments like this gives the construction industry certainty ...
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    6 days ago
  • Minister of Māori Development pays tribute to Rudy Taylor
      Today the Minister of Māori Development, alongside other Government Ministers and MP’s said their final farewells to Nga Puhi Leader Rudy Taylor.  “Rudy dedicated his life to the betterment of Māori, and his strong approach was always from the ground up, grassroots, sincere and unfaltering”  “Over the past few ...
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    6 days ago
  • Prime Minister to attend APEC Leaders’ Summit
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern will attend the annual APEC Economic Leaders’ Meeting and associated events virtually today and tomorrow. “In a world where we cannot travel due to COVID-19, continuing close collaboration with our regional partners is key to accelerating New Zealand’s economic recovery,” Jacinda Ardern said. “There is wide ...
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    6 days ago
  • Speech to Infrastructure NZ Symposium
    Tena Koutou, Tena Koutou and thank you for inviting me to speak to you today. This is a critical time for New Zealand as we respond to the damage wreaked by the global COVID-19 pandemic. It is vital that investment in our economic recovery is well thought through, and makes ...
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    7 days ago
  • Pike River 10 Year Anniversary Commemorative Service
    Tēnei te mihi ki a tātau katoa e huihui nei i tēnei rā Ki a koutou ngā whānau o te hunga kua riro i kōnei – he mihi aroha ki a koutou Ki te hapori whānui – tēnā koutou Ki ngā tāngata whenua – tēnā koutou Ki ngā mate, e ...
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    7 days ago
  • Huge investment in new and upgraded classrooms to boost construction jobs
    Around 7,500 students are set to benefit from the Government’s latest investment of $164 million to build new classrooms and upgrade schools around the country. “The election delivered a clear mandate to accelerate our economic recovery and build back better. That’s why we are prioritising construction projects in schools so more ...
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    7 days ago
  • Keeping Pike River Mine promises 10 years on
    Ten years after the Pike River Mine tragedy in which 29 men lost their lives while at work, a commemorative service at Parliament has honoured them and their legacy of ensuring all New Zealand workplaces are safe. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern attended the event, along with representatives of the Pike ...
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    7 days ago
  • Additional testing to strengthen border and increase safety of workers
    New testing measures are being put in place to increase the safety of border workers and further strengthen New Zealand’s barriers against COVID-19, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “These strengthened rules – to apply to all international airports and ports – build on the mandatory testing orders we’ve ...
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    7 days ago
  • More public housing delivered in Auckland
    The Government’s investment in public housing is delivering more warm, dry homes with today’s official opening of 82 new apartments in New Lynn by the Housing Minister Megan Woods. The Thom Street development replaces 16 houses built in the 1940s, with brand new fit-for-purpose public housing that is in high ...
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    1 week ago
  • Agreement advanced to purchase up to 5 million COVID-19 vaccines
    The Government has confirmed an in-principle agreement to purchase up to 5 million COVID-19 vaccines – enough for 5 million people – from Janssen Pharmaceutica, subject to the vaccine successfully completing clinical trials and passing regulatory approvals in New Zealand, says Research, Science and Innovation Minister Megan Woods. “This agreement ...
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    1 week ago
  • Jobs for Nature funding will leave a conservation legacy for Waikanae awa
    Ninety-two jobs will be created to help environmental restoration in the Waikanae River catchment through $8.5 million of Jobs for Nature funding, Conservation Minister Kiritapu Allan announced today. “The new funding will give a four-year boost to the restoration of the Waikanae awa, and is specifically focussed on restoration through ...
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    1 week ago
  • New Dunedin Hospital project progresses to next stage
    As the new Dunedin Hospital project progresses, the Government is changing the oversight group to provide more technical input, ensure continued local representation, and to make sure lessons learnt from Dunedin benefit other health infrastructure projects around the country. Concept design approval and the release of a tender for early ...
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    1 week ago
  • Jump in apprentice and trainee numbers
    The number of New Zealanders taking up apprenticeships has increased nearly 50 percent, and the number of female apprentices has more than doubled. This comes as a Government campaign to raise the profile of vocational education and training (VET) begins. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Education Minister Chris Hipkins announced ...
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    1 week ago
  • ReBuilding Nations Symposium 2020 (Infrastructure NZ Conference opening session)
    Tena koutou katoa and thank you for the opportunity to be with you today. Can I acknowledge Ngarimu Blair, Ngati Whatua, and Mayor Phil Goff for the welcome. Before I start with my substantive comments, I do want to acknowledge the hard work it has taken by everyone to ensure ...
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    1 week ago
  • New Zealand's biosecurity champions honoured
    Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor has paid tribute to the winners of the 2020 New Zealand Biosecurity Awards. “These are the people and organisations who go above and beyond to protect Aotearoa from pests and disease to ensure our unique way of life is sustained for future generations,” Damien O’Connor says. ...
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    1 week ago
  • Tourism Industry Aotearoa Conference
    speech to Tourism Industry Aotearoa annual summit Te Papa,  Wellington Introduction Nau mai, haere mai Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, Ka nui te mihi, ki a koutou. Thank you Tourism Industry Aotearoa for hosting today’s Summit. In particular, my acknowledgements to TIA Chair Gráinne Troute and Chief Executive Chris Roberts. You ...
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    1 week ago
  • Supermarkets announced as Government’s second market study
    The Government has today launched a market study to ensure New Zealanders are paying a fair price for groceries.   “Supermarkets are an integral part of our communities and economy, so it’s important to ensure that Kiwis are getting a fair deal at the checkout,” Minister of Commerce and Consumer ...
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    1 week ago
  • Masks to be worn on Auckland public transport and all domestic flights
    Masks will need to be worn on all public transport in Auckland and in and out of Auckland and on domestic flights throughout the country from this Thursday, Minister for COVID-19 Response Chris Hipkins said today. “I will be issuing an Order under the COVID-19 Response Act requiring the wearing ...
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    1 week ago
  • New Zealand signs Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership
    Increase to New Zealand’s GDP by around $2 billion each year Increase opportunities for NZ exporters to access regional markets Cuts red tape and offers one set of trade rules across the Asia Pacific region New government procurement, competition policy and electronic commerce offers NZ exporters increased business opportunities Prime ...
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    2 weeks ago
  • Minister acknowledges students as exams begin
    Education Minister Chris Hipkins has recognised the extraordinary challenges students have faced this year, ahead of NCEA and New Zealand Scholarship exams which begin on Monday. “I want to congratulate students for their hard work during a year of unprecedented disruption, and I wish students all the best as ...
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    2 weeks ago
  • Prime Minister meets with key ASEAN and East Asia Summit partners
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern today attended the ASEAN-New Zealand Commemorative Summit and discussed with Leaders a range of shared challenges facing the Indo-Pacific region, including: The ongoing management of the COVID-19 pandemic; The importance of working collectively to accelerate economic recovery; and Exploring further opportunities for partners to work more ...
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    2 weeks ago
  • Veterans Affairs Summit held in Korea
    A Ministerial Summit on Veterans’ Affairs was held in the Republic of Korea this week. Ministers with veteran responsibilities were invited from all 22 countries that had been part of the United Nations Forces during the Korean War (1950 – 1953). The Summit marked the 70th anniversary of the outbreak ...
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    2 weeks ago
  • Clear direction set for the education system, skills prioritised
    The Government has released a set of priorities for early learning through to tertiary education and lifelong learning to build a stronger, fairer education system that delivers for all New Zealanders. “The election delivered a clear mandate from New Zealanders to accelerate our plan to reduce inequalities and make more ...
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    2 weeks ago
  • A Progressive Agenda
    Speech to the Climate Change + Business Conference, November 12, 2020 Tena koutou katoa Thank you for inviting me to speak here today. It is great to see us all come together for a common cause: to redefine our future in the face of unprecedented times.  Covid-19 and climate change are ...
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    2 weeks ago