Open mike 12/12/2012

Written By: notices and features - Date published: 6:00 am, December 12th, 2012 - 70 comments
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Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

70 comments on “Open mike 12/12/2012 ”

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Jenny 1

12 December 2012 at 6:17 am

In his post Doha blah blah blah, Anthony Robins wrote;

Perhaps the only moment of genuine passion was the tears of the delegation from the Philippines, in the wake of typhoon Bopha, which left 600 dead and nearly 1000 missing. (Didn’t get as much coverage as Sandy for some reason.)

ANTHONY R0BINS Doha, blah blah blah

The figures are, over 300 dead and over 900 missing, 400,000 have been left homeless. The death and destruction dwarfs that caused by Hurricane Sandy. Yet got the barest coverage possible in the Western media.

I don’t think that the difference in reporting this huge human tragedy can all be explained by euro-centric racism in the MSM.

The footprint of global warming is all over this one. For the media to look too closely at the tragedy in the Philippines is to risk opening up a huge political controversy that the MSM don’t know how to cover, without offending the authorities and vested interest.

Even in Hurricane Sandy in which climate change was only possibly implicated by the mainstream media, the questions and debate about climate change threatened to spiral out of the authorities’ control and disrupt the carefully stage managed presidential elections in which all mention of climate change had been scripted out.

The same thing threatened to occur at Dohar when the current round of climate talks where briefly disrupted by the intrusion of reality by the unfolding disaster in the Philippines, when the lead representative of the Philippines called on world leaders to stand up to “our political masters“. Apart from the alternative media this emotional call for revolt was greeted with silence by the MSM.

http://www.democracynow.org/2012/12/4/as_typhoon_bopha_wreaks_havoc_philippine

“As we sit here in these negotiations, even as we vacillate and procrastinate here, the death toll is rising. There is massive and widespread devastation. Hundreds of thousands of people have been rendered without homes. And the ordeal is far from over, as typhoon Bopha has regained some strength as it approaches another populated area in the western part of the Philippines…..

“I appeal to the whole world, I appeal to leaders from all over the world, to open our eyes to the stark reality that we face. I appeal to ministers. The outcome of our work is not about what our political masters want.

Naderev Saño, the lead negotiator of the Philippines delegation to Dohar.

Unfortunately Naderev Sano’s plea went unheeded and the Dohar talks delivered exactly what “our political masters” wanted.

Who are “our political masters” that Sano is appealing to the government “ministers” and political “leaders” of the world to stand up to?

Would I be wrong in supposeing that they are the same political masters who influence our mainstream media outlets to play up some stories and play down others?

Are they the same “political masters” that influence even Green Party politicians to play down and ignore climate change?
- One Tāne Viper 1.1
 
 12 December 2012 at 6:22 am
 
 That last sentence: there’s the problem, see? Reading this false claim makes me wonder how many other lies your comment contains. Undermines its effectiveness. Y’know, like when John Key’s lips are moving.
 
 Lift your game.
 - Colonial Weka 1.1.1
 
 12 December 2012 at 8:36 am
 
 +1
 - Jenny 1.1.2
 
 12 December 2012 at 10:52 pm
 
 Be careful who you call a liar, you risk looking foolish. You know as well as I that the Green Party leadership are playing down climate change and that they are doing it for narrow political advantage. i.e. bums on seats. They are not even in government yet, and already they are selling out. There can be little doubt, that with all the compromises they are prepared to make to get cabinet positions the Green Party in government will be a big disappointment.
 
 In a previous thread I asked weka to explain why the Green Party was playing down climate change.
 
 This is what he wrote:
 
 ……I just don’t think it’s the job or responsibility of the GP to do this at this point. Time for others to step up.
 
 weka
 
 In reply I asked weka a simple question; Who?
 
 Who weka are these “others” you think should “step up”, now that the Greens are standing down?
 
 Weka has not replied to me. Maybe weka should consider the words of Naderev Sano, though addressed to the government reps gathered at Doha it could just as easily be asked of the Greens.
 
 Please, let 2012 be remembered as the year the world found the courage to find the will to take responsibility for the future we want. I ask of all of us here, if not us, then who? If not now, then when? If not here, then where?”
 
 Naderev Saño, lead negotiator of the Philippines delegation to Dohar.
 - One Tāne Viper 1.1.2.1
 
 12 December 2012 at 11:11 pm
 
 …the Green Party leadership are playing down climate change…
 
 It’s time for your reality check.
 
 Oh look, here’s a press-release from five days ago. From Russell Norman. The co-leader.
 
 “Looking foolish”? Yes, you are.
 - Jenny 1.1.2.1.1
 
 13 December 2012 at 7:31 pm
 
 <blockquote>Oh look, here’s a press-release from five days ago. From Russell Norman. The co-leade
 
 One Tāne Viper
 </blockquote>
 
 Oh look, there’s not a single word in this press release attributed to Russel Norman. The co-leader
 Grabbing for straws are we not?
 
 McFliper 1.1.2.1.1.1
 
 13 December 2012 at 8:25 pm
 
 Um – the entire release is attributed to RN. He’s the primary contact for it.
 - Jenny 1.1.2.1.2
 
 16 December 2012 at 12:02 am
 
 Impressive
 - QoTViper 1.1.2.2
 
 12 December 2012 at 11:19 pm
 
 the Green Party leadership are playing down climate change
 
 Citation needed. Students are advised that “playing down” is normally read as an active move on the part of the sentence’s subject, and arguments based on a lack of sufficiently-robust press releases on the topic will be marked down as disingenuous.
 - Jenny 1.1.2.2.1
 
 13 December 2012 at 7:36 pm
 
 Um, it is really hard to report things that didn’t happen. Like the fact that climate change was never mentioned by the Green Party as an election issue in the last election. And looks likely not to be raised again in the next elections by the Green Party.
 
 I suppose I could link to a blank sheet of paper if that would satisfy you.
 
 McFliper 1.1.2.2.1.1
 
 13 December 2012 at 8:09 pm
 
 Never mentioned? Five press releases specifically mentioning climate change in the last 3 months before the 2011 election.
 Here, here, here, here, and here. Almost one a fortnight through the campaign. On top of every other issue mentioned during the campaign.
 I’m never going to vote Green, but I am prepared to spend 20 seconds to do a basic search of the interwebz.
 
 What were you saying about reporting things that didn’t happen?
 - Colonial Weka 1.1.2.3
 
 13 December 2012 at 9:55 am
 
 “Weka has not replied to me.”
 
 Probably because we had just spent a whole lot of time and effort providing links that demonstrated you were lying about Russell Norman and grossly misrepresenting the GP as a way of manipulating reality to suit your agenda.
 
 Or maybe it’s because I don’t believe that the GP are ARE downplaying CC, so there was no clear way to answer your somewhat idiotic and manipulative question.
 
 I also find it weird that you don’t already know who the other parties are that should be challenging climate change AS WELL AS the GP. See that? – AS WELL AS. That was my point – that the GP has done massive amounts of work to address climate change, and they still do but they have changed their focus a bit. Hence my suggestion that others step up (political parties, NGOs, industry etc, duh).
 
 You have an odd sense of responsibility IMO. You think that the GP should abandon its attempt to form government (which includes abandoning an attempt to effect real change within parliament on all those other equally important issues), and instead put CC at the forefront and stay in parliament as a CC lobby group. Well too bad. The GP doesn’t exist to suit your agenda, and as already amply demonstrated is doing its bit to address CC.
 - Jenny 1.1.2.3.1
 
 13 December 2012 at 8:57 pm
 
 Thank you weka for attempting to answer my question. I am glad to see that you think that it is the time that other political parties, (presumably Labour and National), step up to the campaign against climate change. I agree totally. But for this to happen requires leadership from the Greens. Labour and National will never change their current positions unless they are challenged, and challenged strongly and repeatedly. But how can this happen when in your words, “the Greens have changed their focus….”? (in your opinion “a bit” in my opinion an “awful lot”). Your reply is contradictory. You say that you “don’t believe that the GP are downplaying CC”. But you admit that the Green Party have “changed their focus a bit”. A concession to the truth. You argue that the Green Party should attempt to enter government that supports deep seas oil drilling and prospecting, and open cast coal mining, and fracking. And that, to not do so means, “abandoning an attempt to effect real change within parliament on all those other equally important issues” (Without saying what those other equally important issues are.) It doesn’t really matter what they are, because you are full of it, just making excuses before time, for selling out. I imagine that by “equally important issues” you mean social issues of justice and equality and relief for the poor etc. All highly commendable and high minded, of course, and who could object? Except that by leveling them equal to climate change each one of these other issues will be worsened, not alleviated. Making your stand hypocritical.
 Weka if you haven’t already, you should listen to the words of Naderev (Yeb) Sano talking about Typhoon Bopha: <blockquote>”….. heartbreaking tragedies like this are not unique to the Philippines, because the whole world, especially developing countries struggling to address poverty and achieve social and human development, confront these same realities. Naderev Sano Lead negotiator, Philippines delegation to Dohar round on climate change. </blockquote> You say that by not staying outside of government to fight against climate change includes abandoning an attempt to effect real change within parliament on all those other equally important issues. I say you will be following in the well trod path of <a href=’http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.co.nz/2012/12/an-appointment-with-reality.html’>Joshka Fischer</a> and <a href=’http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/clegg-sold-out-to-get-power-say-voters-2083293.html’>Nick Clegg</a>. To keep the pressure on the Labour and National Parties the Green Party need to abandon attempting to form a government that will allow deep sea oil drilling and fracking and new open cast strip mining of coal for export.
 
 McFliper 1.1.2.3.1.1
 
 13 December 2012 at 9:09 pm
 
 are you putting markup tags in the WYSIWYG editor?
 
 Jenny …
 
 13 December 2012 at 9:30 pm
 
 It’s a complete mystery to me. All paragraphs have been removed as well.
 
 Jenny 1.1.2.3.1.2
 
 13 December 2012 at 9:21 pm
 
 (For some reason my ability to use html has failed. I will try reposting again) Thank you weka for attempting to answer my question. I am glad to see that you think that it is the time of the Labour Party and National parties to take over the campaign against climate change. I agree totally. But for this to happen requires leadership from the Greens. Labour and National will never change their current positions unless they are challenged, and challenged strongly and repeatedly. Inside parliament and out. But how can this happen when in your words, “the Greens have changed their focus….”? (in your opinion “a bit” in my opinion an “awful lot”). Your reply is contradictory. You say that you “don’t believe that the GP are downplaying CC”. But you admit that the Green Party have “changed their focus a bit”. A concession to the truth. You argue that the Green Party should attempt to enter government that supports deep seas oil drilling and prospecting, and open cast coal mining, and fracking. And that, to not do so, ”means abandoning an attempt to effect real change within parliament on all these other equally important issues” (Without saying what those other equally important issues are.) It doesn’t really matter what they are, because you are full of it, just making excuses before time, for selling out. I imagine that by “equally important issues” you mean social issues of justice and equality and relief for the poor etc. All highly commendable and high minded, of course, and who could object? Except that by leveling them equal to climate change each one of these other issues will be worsened, not alleviated. Weka if you haven’t already, you should listen to the words of Naderev (Yeb) Sano talking about Typhoon Bopha: <blockquote> “…….heartbreaking tragedies like this are not unique to the Philippines, because the whole world, especially developing countries struggling to address poverty and achieve social and human development, confront these same realities. Naderev Sano Lead negotiator, Philippines delegation to Dohar round on climate change. </blockquote> You say that by not staying outside of government to fight against climate change includes abandoning an attempt to effect real change within parliament on all those other equally important issues. I say you will be following in the well trod path of <a href=’http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.co.nz/2012/12/an-appointment-with-reality.html’>Joshka Fischer</a> and <a href=’http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/clegg-sold-out-to-get-power-say-voters-2083293.html’>Nick Clegg</a>. To keep the pressure on the Labour and National Parties the Green Party need to abandon attempting to form a government that will allow deep sea oil drilling and fracking and new open cast strip mining of coal for export. By staying outside of such a government you can vote on each issue, case by case. In a coalition you will be bound by collective responsibility, forced to swallow many dead rats.
 
 Jenny …
 
 13 December 2012 at 9:21 pm
 
 No luck
- Pascal's bookie 1.2
 
 12 December 2012 at 8:29 am
 
 I don’t think that the difference in reporting this huge human tragedy can all be explained by euro-centric racism in the MSM.
 
 Most of the difference can be explained by reference to the fact that Sandy bore down on the highest concentration of big media producers in the english speaking world, a few days before a US presidential election, combine that with this:
 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNN_effect
 
 and it would have been a miracle if anything else happened.
 - Populuxe1 1.2.1
 
 12 December 2012 at 9:50 am
 
 Exactly. Occam’s Rasor, yes. Huge global conspiring new order cabals of racists, no.
 - Jenny 1.2.2
 
 12 December 2012 at 11:06 pm
 
 So is this how the gathering global disaster of climate change will be reported? The hundreds of deaths now, which in the future will be millions, will get less media attention than the passing milestones of the yet unborn heir to the British throne.
 - Pascal's bookie 1.2.2.1
 
 13 December 2012 at 8:37 pm
 
 I have no idea how that is supposed to relate to my comment, or the aspect of your comment I was responding to.
 - Jenny 1.2.3
 
 13 December 2012 at 12:12 am
 
 ‘
 
 http://www.janbrett.com/piggybacks/deep_tex.mid
 - Jenny 1.2.4
 
 13 December 2012 at 9:53 pm
 
 http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/12/12-0 “The honchos of America’s establishment media are quick to blame such external causes as the Internet for their problems. But if they looked internally, they might notice that they’re damn near eaten-up with a bad case of conventional wisdomitis. The problem with conventional wisdom is that more often than not it’s nothing more than the contrived “wisdom” of the corporate powers.
 - Pascal's bookie 1.2.4.1
 
 13 December 2012 at 10:06 pm
 
 And again, while this is an interesting area, it doesn’t relate in any way to what we were talking about.
KhandallaMan-an Absolutely Fabulous Viper 2

12 December 2012 at 6:43 am

Associated Press. March 2023.
Sir Trevor Mallard of Wainuiomata has returned from London after six years as a highly successful and very popular High Commissioner. Sir Trevor is expected to continue to bring his unique talents to bear on assignments for the UN and the Olympics Movement.
Sir Trevor took of the London position after three hectic years as Speaker of the House during the first Cunliffe Government. He successfully guided the house through the historic period of economic reform that has led the country to its new export led prosperity and low employment. Sir Trevor is New Zealand’s last High Commissioner. The role will now be titled Ambassador, given New Zealand’s new status of a republic.
Sir Trevor was greeted at the Airport by his BFFL, Tau Henare.
- coronial typer 2.1
  
  12 December 2012 at 8:23 am
  
  NZHerald. April 2023
  Premier Lady Jacinta Ardern flew back from Australasia’s capital Canberra for the annual Federation Heads meeting where she was greeting with 400 young schoolchildren who ran across the airport as she emerged from the plane. In a well choreographed display of affection with long red ribbons on sticks they all sang The People’s Flag is Deepest Red, We Praise You For Our Room And Bed.
  
  She confirmed in a written statement that “Our decision to join in union with Australia after the ANZAC centenary has been proven the only and the best way to ensure our national sovereignty is secure, our labour rights improved, and our strategic assets retained within Canberra’s more generous banking framework. Our discussions on the New Guinea question were fruitful.”
  
  Lady Ardern was formally welcomed by New Zealand’s last Governor-General Lord Key of Thorndon at Premier House, where the security cordon against what he described last month as “Those filthy Hobbitses” remained tight as over half the country is now officially in poverty and the vast steaming camp outside Premier House remains, in the words of the Chief of Welfare and Goodness, “Too fetid to consider seriously until they all just get a job.”
  - Ennui in Requiem Mass for CV 2.1.1
    
    12 December 2012 at 11:03 am
    
    Hell 2060
    Very warm welcomes are expected in Hell for the NZ members of the Australasian politburo lynched by a mob of “rabid hobbits”.
  - NoseViper (The Nose knows) 2.1.2
    
    12 December 2012 at 1:47 pm
    
    Correction for Lady Ardern – “Our discussion on the New Guinea question of overpopulation of fruitbats was sterile I’m sorry to report.” Nothing else of import was addressed.
- Another Viper 2.2
  
  12 December 2012 at 12:45 pm
  
  Trevor has just issued a statement in which, in a very Statesmanlike tone, he recommends Maurice Williamson for the Speaker Role.
  This great act by Sir Trevor should be applauded.
  
  Jaysus…I just had a thought: Trevor would be a great speaker. Cunliffe should propose Trevor for that role.
  And while Cunliffe is being so generous he should endorse Annette for the Wellingtom Mayoralty… Lady Annette has a certain ring to it.
  Eh Cunners? Why not give Phil Goff the nod for Secretaty General of the Commonwealth? Lord Goff of Pukekohe has a certain ring to it.
  Shearer you ask eh Cunners? No the UN don’t want him back. A little bit embarrassing….
  - Veutoviper 2.2.1
    
    12 December 2012 at 1:06 pm
    
    I thought this post was taking the p**s – but here is the link to Mallard the Duck’s press release
    
    – http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1212/S00228/new-speaker-must-want-the-job.htm
    
    On the same subject, Tariana Turia’s response to Tau Henare’s blaming the MP for not now supporting his bid for Speaker
    
    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1212/S00221/turia-corrects-record-regarding-contest-for-speaker.htm
    
    LOL – love the other suggestions in your comment!
    - Another Viper 2.2.1.1
      
      12 December 2012 at 2:04 pm
      
      Moi? Take the P*ss?
      
      These appointments have been well earned by our leaders. They are now ready to retire their seats. They have all insisted that they will not parachute in any staffers from the Parliamentary office it the Labour HQ. They would like to encourage candidates who will engage with the Membership in a respectful manner.
      - just saying 2.2.1.1.1
        
        12 December 2012 at 2:27 pm
        
        Laughed Out Loud
  - NoseViper (The Nose knows) 2.2.2
    
    12 December 2012 at 1:44 pm
    
    Another V
    +1
    - asp viper 2.2.2.1
      
      12 December 2012 at 1:53 pm
      
      …and another……
- NoseViper (The Nose knows) 2.3
  
  12 December 2012 at 1:42 pm
  
  KMan (Absolutely Fabulous)
  Very good. Interesting though how you happy republicans believe that life will be better with the type of elected uber-leader that we would get when we can’t even attract the quality under leaders we absolutely need. All in all the Monarchy is mainly monetarily supported by the Brits, does her or his best to think responsibly and behave with integrity and graciousness, and aren’t lawyers or con-men out to help their friends to chisel any money you have accumulated in the naive belief that this is the proper financial duty according to the seen laws and the general meme.
Logie97 3

12 December 2012 at 7:04 am

RNZ – The Panel – yesterday.
Jim Mora and his guests appeared to countenance the practice of “prank” phone calls. They are apparently part of the social fabric and have been for years, and they even interviewed a former DJ from a “pop” radio station who was world-famous-in-NZ for this type of phone call.
What is the justification for the calls to be made at all.

I wasn’t sure whether they were advocating that Radio New Zealand National start doing it. Further, I wonder if they would approve. If they were uncomfortable with that notion, then the question might be why.
- aerobubble 3.1
  
  12 December 2012 at 12:35 pm
  
  I was astonished to hear that Holmes did it before ubiquitous global communications had twittered into every area of life. The basic observation was lacking in Moro, radio used to have the ability to control the message (a switch to cut the caller off), but now we all get to pile in to the bullying of shock jocks, that their meanness isn’t a bitchy corner of the media space where a few listen in, its a world where their efforts are redistributed on utube, their master complex creates copy cats from timbucktoo to alaska. This poor nurse, unable to reply, unable to remedy the offense to her own professional standing, was caught in an off moment, to the riddle of the world. That could be anyone next if we allow this incidient to go unpunished, and its striking that Moro would come to their defense, surely what’s good for the goose is good for the gander? Well no, it just continues the original reckless ridiculing. This was wrong, lawyers should have long since shutdown this debate pending criminal charges of the editors of the radio show. They were just gunning for spectacle royal stories to feed into the killing frenzy, the blood was in the water, and they wanted a bite too.
  - Reagan Cline 3.1.1
    
    12 December 2012 at 8:05 pm
    
    “Spectacle royal stories” – I hope I live to when New Zealand voters elect their Head of State.
travellerev another viper 4

12 December 2012 at 8:01 am

This is for anybody who still thinks the Cullen fund is going to provide us with pensions for the rest of times.
- coronial typer 4.1
  
  12 December 2012 at 8:40 am
  
  Lovely rant there for the morning – great stuff in the interview.
  - travellerev another viper 4.1.1
    
    12 December 2012 at 8:43 am
    
    Isn’t it just 🙂
mickyviper in solidarity 5

12 December 2012 at 8:03 am

Another example of this Government’s refusal to adhere to even a basic understanding of natural justice is Judith Collins’ handling of the recommendation to pay David Bain compensation.

he has criticised the report prepared by overseas Jurist Ian Binnie but has not released it. She has asked the Solicitor General to have a critique prepared but has refused to let Bain’s lawyers see it. This is giving the side who lost the chance to undermine the proposal for compensation.

Binnie has released the most scathing response I have ever seen from a Western Jurist.

He has said that he expected Collins to follow a fair and even-handed process, yet she has taken advice from the Solicitor-General who for almost 17 years tried to uphold the guilty verdict from David Bain’s first trial.

He stated that the minister is searching for reasons that support her preferred disposition of the Bain claim.

He said says it is unfair that his report has been given to the police and other officials but Bain has not been able to see it.

Binnie finished by saying that by Collins insisting his report remain confidential she seems to have a “curiously one-sided view of confidentiality”. He believes the report should be made public so people can judge the merits of the minister’s concerns.

Strong stuff.
- Blue Viper 5.1
  
  12 December 2012 at 9:38 am
  
  I don’t know, Micky. I am deeply suspicious of the Binnie report (no, I haven’t seen it). Two things – firstly it’s been reported that Binnie interviewed Bain while compiling the report. Is this normal? I would rather have thought a judge should be making decisions based on the evidence, not trying to form their own impressions of the accused at that stage of the process.
  
  And secondly, I really doubt that it’s possible to find David Bain innocent on the balance of probabilities. There’s enough for reasonable doubt, definitely, but on balance of probabilities I think you’d have to be Joe Karam in disguise to come to Binnie’s conclusion.
  - vto viped 5.1.1
    
    12 December 2012 at 9:44 am
    
    “I would rather have thought a judge should be making decisions based on the evidence, not trying to form their own impressions of the accused at that stage of the process.”
    
    The questioning was known and attended by all parties so presumably fine. Further, the report is around compensation rather than another trial over his guilt. The issue is compensation for what has occurred – the issue is not whether he is innocent or guilty.
    
    But seriously, this bunch of neanderthals in government simply buy the recommendations and opinions that suit their political requirements. Examples – Wyatt Creech’s Ecan report, John Key’s Hardtalk interview which gave his game away, and now Judith Collins and Binnie.
    
    They are a joke this government
    - Northshoreguynz 5.1.1.1
      
      12 December 2012 at 10:55 am
      
      Judith Collins has just done a Parata. With hopefully the same result. Let’s hope Chauvel is up for it.
      - North 5.1.1.1.1
        
        12 December 2012 at 9:18 pm
        
        Heard Justice Binnie on Checkpoint. An understated, truly authoritative, quintessential, impeccable, judicial analysis of the ignorant backwoodsman behaviour of Judith Collins. Collins…… the true, leathered, impervious to mature thought, redneck.
        
        Was left thinking that Collins is much like George Dubya – “I say, therefore it is”.
        
        Embarrassing !
  - mickyviper in solidarity 5.1.2
    
    12 December 2012 at 12:56 pm
    
    Agreed Blue about the complexity of the Bain case and I am not sure that he should qualify for compensation. But the process is appalling. If a Minister asks a Judge for an opinion and he gives her one she should follow it. If she is not going to she should at least release the decision and set out her concerns and then let Bain have a chance to respond.
    
    Natural Justice requires no less.
- vto viped 5.2
  
  12 December 2012 at 9:40 am
  
  mr micky, this latest grunting from the current NZ Government is simply mroe evidence that we have neanderthals in charge..
  
  ooga booga, snort grunt stomp stomp stomp.
  
  ug ug
  
  oog oog oog
  
  nothing more. there is no sophistication, no civility, no wisdom, no judgment, certainly no justice or fairness. There is just grunting and grabbing.
  
  ooga booga
- Northshoreguynz 5.3
  
  12 December 2012 at 1:13 pm
  
  Have a listen to this. Sounds like Collins has bitten off more than she can chew with this guy.
  http://www.nzherald.co.nz/national/news/video.cfm?c_id=1503075&gal_cid=1503075&gallery_id=129782
  
  Which begs a second question. With Parata, Power, Bennett and now Collins out of the running by dint of incompetence, retirement or plain stupidity, does that leave Joyce as the next leader of the Nat party?
  - One Tāne Viper 5.3.1
    
    12 December 2012 at 1:24 pm
    
    Thanks for that. It’s a pity Binnie referred to his expertise as an “opinion” – “just one judge’s opinion and I can show you another that will give you a counterview”.
aerobubble 6

12 December 2012 at 11:46 am

Look in Nz the law is to simple, you become
entangled in a crime scene, and the evidence
does not stack up, in fact, starts shrinking
as time passes, but courts being run by
humans make the mistake and convict.

Now if you appreciate this,
and argue that courts should be judicious,
bring all matters (and appeals) in timely
fashion, then commonly held (other nations)
this would be considered a credit to a nation.

But in NZ we ignore incompetence, and in
ignoring end up rewarding the failures
(who fail to learn).

Look at neo-conservatist neo-liberalist
deregulation, that contributed not only to
Pike River, CTV, SCF, but now Bain.

Judith Collins, by ignoring, by not humbling
herself, and admitting the horrendously long
time for justice to be done, is bringing the
case back to life, and re-litigating it.

So I ask when will the law council start
proceedings to disbar Judith Collins.
Now, of course, it could just be political
and Collins needing the prosecutors to sign
on to compensation too.

The Bain case says more about us as a country than
of a soulless Justice Minister or the patently
incapable legal fraternity of admitting error.

Do we believe as a nation, that if you walk into
a murder scene where nearly all your family have
been murdered, and fight for your life also,
then at trial the wrong verdict, guilty, was
announced. Leads to you losing your family
wealth, incarcerated for over a decade, all the
time you are declaring your innocence. How would
you see the case? when you finally vindicated
that the state had not given you a fair trial,
a speedy process that uncovers guilt?

The balance of probabilities test does not
access the fairness of the trial, the
the court system ability to discern truth,
or hold them to account when they inevitably gone wrong.

A persons life, their family murdered, then
can be destroyed by the system on top? where
the courts are used by the real murderer to
continue the criminality?

So as the evidence shrinks, the possibility
of another perpetrator rises, the pronounced
reality that the system is aiding and abetting
them.

Its not beyond possibility that a murderer can
wipe out their family, inadvertantly frame the
sole survivor. Murder suicides do not go to plan.

And if you haven’t noticed, you cannot make a
case on the balance of probabilites if you
don’t have the initial weights of those possibilites
before the evidence is added in.

We cannot have a situation where the less
evidence there is, the more definitive we can be
about merits of our own case. Its like declaring
the classic invisible pink unicorn is both pink and
has just one horn, having a discussion that the
balance of probabilities tells us that it must be
just the one horn is nonsense, not none or many.

Our court system has too
streams, civil and criminal, we remove incarceration
as civil punishments. Just by admitting the need
to discuss probabilities should mean we compensate
for the incarceration. Bain should get some
compensation no matter what, even if its just
to safeguard the surviving relatives from paying
back inheritances.

Should we let one innocent person go to jail, who
lost their whole family, their inheritance,
their right to a judicious court process, time
having destroyed the evidence of innocence?

Do we live in a nation where innocent till proven otherwise?

Do we live in a nation of law, or of a lawyer pandering
to their political needs?

Impeach Judith Collins. Sick sad. How is it my
problem that see cannot understand a competent
legalist and has to call in ‘help’ from partial
lawyers? Why do we as a nation have to talk
Judith collins done from her high horse again.
The idea that anyone of us could walk into
a crime, be wrongly convicted, fight for justice
languishing in jail for over a decade, only to
be vindicated, and then be ignored by a sad sick
lawyer more worried about her political career
than her oath to uphold the integrity of the legal
system, to not bring parliament into disrepute,
by micro managing to political ends, what now is
clear to all, even the impartial third party expert
believes compensation is merited.
PlanetOrphan 7

12 December 2012 at 1:50 pm

Hekia Parata plagiarises the “Teaching 101” introduction to teaching textbook yet again ….

http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8578933/govt-blamed-for-poor-student-performance

DunnoKeyo still has great confidence in “His Team” 😀
One Tāne Viper 8

12 December 2012 at 3:18 pm

Ho hum, another day, another “journalist” peddling wingnut spin.

…she revealed retired Canadian judge Ian Binnie went “well beyond”…

Revealed? Not “asserted” then?

Isn’t it time the electoral commission started totting up the value of these free services Fairfax media et al provide to the National Party?
Trinity 9

12 December 2012 at 5:38 pm

Hello David, you are a part of this family and you are my child- ‘mine’ Forever.

“All for one, one for all”.

WE work together, that is the deal, we are family.

You have two choices- be a leader or be a loser?

At least I am getting the ball rolling!

You have to believe, both of you.

The art of magic, is the art of believing.

DON’T EVER DOUBT YOURSELVES!
blue leopard 10

12 December 2012 at 7:28 pm

So What?

Draco T Bastard gone too?
WTF is going on??
Pascal's bookie 11

12 December 2012 at 7:40 pm

Journos on the tweet machine saying the Auditor General has sent draft report about the Sky City convention centre bizzo to interested parties.

Should be ready for release when everyone is sitting on the beach then.
Pascal's bookie 12

12 December 2012 at 9:44 pm

you pretty much have to laugh at this shit by now:

http://t.co/pOr5cdcF

That’s some well written reportage there too, BTW.
- rosy viper 12.1
  
  12 December 2012 at 10:50 pm
  
  There’s been excuses all over the news channels about how they weren’t in cahoots with the drug-runners, it’s just their systems weren’t robust enough. The man in charge at the time, Stuart Green is now the UK Minister of State for Trade and Investment.
  
  No such thing as a sacking or accountability for these types, just a life peerage and a seat in the House of Lords
lprent 13

13 December 2012 at 12:11 am

Now on WordPress 3.5. Tests worked ok. Leave me a message if any problems show…
- lprent 13.1
  
  13 December 2012 at 12:18 am
  
  Test message
- felixviper 13.2
  
  13 December 2012 at 7:45 am
  
  I’m getting the wysiwyg editor for comments, never had it before. Haven’t got the box checked.
  
  Chrome on xp.
  - lprent 13.2.1
    
    13 December 2012 at 3:33 pm
    
    That is weird. The flag to display it or not is stored in a cookie from your system that is sent to the server.
    
    It literally doesn’t write the code for the HTML page that it sends back unless it see that coming through. Nothing is meant to be caching the HTML at the server side or at cloudflare.
    
    Ummm just tried myself and it turned it on and off on chrome / ubuntu.
    
    Try killing your TS cookies and/or cache
lprent 14

13 December 2012 at 12:19 am

Test message2
- lprent 14.1
  
  13 December 2012 at 12:22 am
  
  Test message3, links are alive dead on wysiwg
lprent 15

13 December 2012 at 12:23 am

Test message 4, testing not logged in.

Reedit appears to work
- karol 15.1
  
  13 December 2012 at 3:38 pm
  
  The link button wouldn’t work for me this morning on chrome or Firefox. ….. no still not working for me on Chrome.
  
  And the blockquote button hasn’t worked properly for me on Chromes for quite a while, but has been OK on FF.
  
  Testing blah blah blah
  
  testing
  
  testing etc etc etc
  
  nope it wrapped the blockquote still around the entire comment even though I only highlighted the testing section.
just saying 16

13 December 2012 at 12:28 am

Something odd but not a problem.
Just left a comment. Hit submit, which took me to the comment in final form in the thread. Hit the “back’ button to get out and it took me to the comment in the thread with the draft underneath it. never happened like that before, usually the “back” takes me back in time to before the comment was posted on my way out and back to the site as a whole.

As i say, it didn’t cause a problem, I just mention it in case the difference indicates some kind of problem.
edit: same thing happened as I tried to exit this comment. Guess this is the new normal.
- lprent 16.1
  
  13 December 2012 at 3:35 pm
  
  That will be your browser. It probably had an upgrade of some type as well. Those history operations are usually completely done on the client and they have all kinds of odd behaviours.
lorraine 17

13 December 2012 at 1:31 pm

There is something incredibly boring about the current labour leadership. They have no spark or imagination. How they ever think they could win an election beats me. That cheshire cat (Chris Hipkins) makes me want to vomit when I see and hear him on the tv. Nothing logical or sensible comes out of his mouth. He looks like a schoolboy and has about the same level of appeal as a teenage boy to what was once loyal labour voters.
Stale, stayed and lacking vision is what this labour leadership is all about. They chopped off the only tall poppy so they are all as dull as each other now.
- Rhinoviper 17.1
  
  13 December 2012 at 3:47 pm
  
  so they are all as dull as each other now
  
  I remember some old Radio NZ or NZBC(?) comedy show about a vain doctor. In one episode, as he left for his holiday, he told the others in the practise, “Now remember: don’t do anything I can’t do.” Since the ABC gang are saying that… nobody’s doing anything.