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Open Mike 13/01/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, January 13th, 2019 - 95 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

95 comments on “Open Mike 13/01/2019 ”

  1. Jenny - How to get there? 1

    Where are the Greens?

    Why haven’t they replied to Todd Muller’s very public attack, yet?

    The success or failure of a political party often hangs on the the effectiveness and public profile of its leaders.

    Todd Muller, the laughably titled National Party spokesperson for climate change, has publicly attacked the government, accusing the government of being “….blinded by Green ideology”
    Alongside his assault on the government and the Green Party, Todd Muller also launched into an attack on climate change pressure group, Generation Zero as being a Green Party version of the Young Nats.

    The success or failure of a political party often hangs on the the effectiveness and public profile, (or lack thereof), of its leaders.

    Leadership means being out there.

    Leadership means defending your corner in the public arena, (especially when you are being attacked in the public arena).

    There is no room in politics for a leader who keeps silent when his party and its allies are being attacked.

    Todd Muller has launched an attack on the government and Generation Zero

    Will James Shaw use his right of reply and stand with Generation Zero and other climate activists?

    Will James Shaw defend the government’s record on climate change?

    Or will James Shaw  continue to maintain his invisible man act, and condemn his party, and himself, to falling polls and political irrelevancy?

    James Shaw needs to take a note from US member of Congress Ocasio Cortez

    Despite not even being officially sworn in yet.

    US Congresswoman Ocasio Cortez shows what leadership looks like.

    • bwaghorn 1.1

      On holiday at their eco bachs most likely

    • Does that propaganda piece from Muller really need any response from the Greens?

      Anyone who gives a shit about the environment already knows that National’s approach is to pay lip-service to climate change and the need to protect the environment, while pursuing policies that assume neither of those things matter. Muller’s blather is just one further example of that approach. Anyone fooled by it was unlikely to be a potential Green voter anyway.

      • Rapunzel 1.2.1

        Plus the duty journalists are probably getting more fed up by the day with the rostered National Party tyre kicking, so allowing their tedious yapping to be seen for what it is is not a negative at all.

  2. Robert Guyton 2

    James may be giving Todd Muller the rope he needs. Sometimes, leaping up to counter hot-headed claims such as those of Todd, give those claims more exposure than they would have got, had they been ignored for a while. In any case, Get Zero can look after themselves and will doubtless take the opportunity to make Todd look like the methane-emmitting dinosaur he’s showing himself to be 🙂

    • Jenny - How to get there? 2.1

      James Shaw is the Government’s Climate Change Minister, by not defending the Government’s record, by being silent in the face of Muller’s attack

      ‘James may be giving Todd Muller the rope he needs’, to hang the Greens.

      As for Generation Zero needing to look after themselves….

      Brings to my mind the old saw…

      If we don’t hang together we will be hung separately.

      • solkta 2.1.1

        Perhaps if you stopped viewing everything as a war requiring a violent approach you might see that there is little to be gained from Shaw responding to Muller.

        • Jenny - How to get there?

          “There was violence on both sides folks”,

          The trouble with your approach, and that of most Rightwingers, Solkta, is that you view legitimate peaceful protest or outspokeness by the Left as violence.

          According to you we should quietly shut up and bow down to Right Wing attacks.

          Meanwhile the Right dominate the airwaves with continual and aggressive attacks on climate change and social justice activists.

          • solkta

            I’m not sure why you have quote marks around your first sentence. I don’t know why you think i am right wing just because i think you are foolish.

            • Jenny - How to get there?

              If you don’t recognise it, the quote is from Donald Trump justifying Right Wing violence at Charlottesville that culminated in the murder of Heather Heyer.

              Here is another quote you may not recognise;

              Michael Moore. ‘How did you pull this [Trump’s election] off?’ 

              Steve Bannon, ‘It’s a very easy answer. Our side, we go for the head wound. Your side, you have pillow fights.’ ”

      • Jenny - How to get there? 2.1.2

        I also disagree that Todd Muller’s ‘claims’ were ‘hot-headed’.

        Todd Muller’s public statement was an obviously well crafted and thought-out attack piece.

        It needs to be answered in the same manner.
        That it is not – is in my opinion, a clear failure of leadership.

        If the Government Climate MInister cannot answer this very public attack from the Opposition, then he needs to seriously rethink his position and role.

        Politics is a public exercise, if James cannot step up, he needs to step down.

        • Dennis Frank

          It was just a positioning thing. Propaganda ought to serve a useful purpose, not just operate as hot air. At a guess, I’d say he’s positioning himself as next leader of the bluegreens. Much ado about nothing, seems to me. It’s not as if his conceptualising of issues is impressive. At least Simon Upton got the basics right. Hasn’t been any Nat since who’s managed that!

          As regards your idea that James ought to be out there tilting at this particular windmill, I suspect doing the Don Quixote isn’t a realistic option for him. Zen teaches the best way to deal with an oncoming opponent is to sidestep & let him flounder on by. He could foot-trip him, but since the Nats flounder so well all by themselves it’s hardly worth the effort.

          Then there’s the fact that he’s been working with the guy in a collaborative effort to produce non-partisan policy on our highest-priority issue. According to the Nat leader, the process is working. Until complete, he needs to avoid distractions, and any personal antagonism that your suggestion would produce.

          • Jenny - How to get there?

            …… he’s been working with the guy in a collaborative effort to produce non-partisan policy on our highest-priority issue.

            It is clear from this attack piece penned by Todd Muller, that the price for getting National’s agreement on non-partisan policy, will be to allow them to repeal the current government’s ban on the issuing of new off shore oil and gas exploration permits on their return to the Treasury benches – And that no agreement will bind them into supporting action against climate change in the here and now, (especially if it is in lead of any of our trading partners).

            Which is probably what ties into Todd Muller’s antipathy towards Gen Zero. Gen Zero despite being nearer the conservative end of the climate movement, than most climate activist groups, are for taking action in the here and now, where Todd Muller, and National Party are for dragging out taking any concrete action on climate change as long as they possibly can.

            If you asked me. I would say that the price for National’s sign on, is currently way too high.

            • Dennis Frank

              I’m not under the impression that any binding of National in that regard is intended, or even possible. We must wait to see the text of the eventual agreed legislation to check on that, eh?

              Further exploration may not be excluded. There’s no cost to the public if the Nats want to allow private industry to find new fields to drill – as long as drilling them isn’t allowed, and the agreed limits suitably restrict aggregate emissions in accord with our national commitments to the international agreements.

              What we’re waiting for is Nat political culture to shift into responsible behaviour. As long as their denial persists, they’ll remain in the corner they’ve painted themselves into. No MMP partners, relying on coalition screw-ups to piss voters off & return them to power.

  3. Ant de Villiers 3

    How will generation zero look after themselves?

    • Jenny - How to get there? 3.1


      Generation Zero are a voluntary group, (of mostly young), people. As such they don’t have the platform accorded to James Shaw as a Government Minister, and co-leader of the Green Party.

      Any public statement of reply issued by Gen Zero is likely to completely ignored by the media.

      Not so the Minister.

      So let’s hear it James,

      Do you agree, or disagree, with Todd Muller that the Government are, “….blinded by Green ideology”. ?

      James, are Generation Zero, a genuine independent youth pressure group concerned about climate change, or a Green Party Front, as alleged by Todd Muller, “….a pseudo-Green Party campaign machine”?

      James, your silence is not an option. It is a dereliction of duty. And an abandonment of leadership, in the face of a very public attack by the opposition party on the government and your role in it.

      • solkta 3.1.1

        So your response to Muller describing Generation Zero as a pseudo-Green Party campaign machine would be for the Greens to quickly jump to their defense? Sounds like playing into Muller’s hand to me.

        • Psycho Milt

          Yep, it’s a “pig-fucker” move by Muller: “of course it’s not true, I just want to make him publicly deny it.”

        • Jenny - How to get there?

          Gen Zero can speak for themselves, whether their statement of reply is reported or not is another matter.

          The accusation is that Generation Zero is a Green Party Front.

          Is Generation Zero a Green Party Front?

          The question is just being left to hang there.

          What has James Shaw got to say about this accusation?

          James Shaw’s silence gives credence to Todd Muller’s accusation that Generation Zero are “….a pseudo-Green Party campaign machine”, to the detriment of Gen Zero’s reputation and credibility.

          How can the Green Party leader in good conscience let Gen Zero swing in the wind like this?

          Are Gen Zero a Green Party front, or not?

          The public need to know.

          • Robert Guyton

            The public couldn’t care less.

            • Jenny - How to get there?

              Hi Robert,

              Your cynical lack of faith in the public, is not backed up by polling.

              From the US;

              Public support for climate policy remains strong, according to new poll
              Melissa De Witte – Stanford News Service, July 16, 2018

              “A new study shows that Americans overwhelmingly want a reduction in global warming and support renewable energy development. But according to the data, Americans don’t realize how many people share their beliefs.”

              From NZ;

              Large numbers concerned by and will act on climate change
              Horizon Poll, 15 May, 2015

              “….The survey showed that about 87% of New Zealanders are at least somewhat concerned about the effects of climate change on society in general.

              63% are concerned or very concerned about the societal effects of climate change and 58% are concerned or very concerned about the personal effects.”

              • Robert Guyton

                Hi Jenny – I meant the public couldn’t care less whether Gen Zero is a front for The Green Party, or not. They won’t care, I reckon, a jot.

              • Rapunzel

                There would be more fatih if they had been going to the polls for the last couple or so elections but they don’t, getting them there is the best response to what Muller and the National Party have or don’t have on offer. Those prattling on the air-waves are preaching to the “unconverted”.

              • Jenny - How to get there?

                Hi Robert, from the poll results I supplied, you might get an inkling of, why I think that James Shaw needs to answer Todd Muller’s attack, how a strong lead given on climate action from the Climate Change Minister, could both strengthen, and benefit, from this relatively high public understanding of this issue.

                In my opinion James Shaw’s silence in the face of this Opposition attack, and his and Marama Davidson’s invisibility in general, are not doing themselves, or their party, any favours.

                Election polling data should worry left bloc
                Thomas Coughlan – Newsroom, September 13, 2018

                Spotlight on the Greens

                There was some concerning information for the Green Party in the report.

                UMR’s polling showed their support dropping to just 4 percent. This was lower than other polls — Newshub showed the Greens falling to 4.9 percent in early September, while Colmar Brunton had them at 4.3 percent in early August.

                National Party tracking polls had the Greens fall to between 3 and 4 percent.

                This will worry the left bloc, which needs the Green party to poll above 5 percent to stay in Parliament. Anything less would waste a huge number of votes and not just see the Greens fall out of Parliament, but likely cause Labour to lose any chance of forming a government.

                There is a widespread acknowledgement within the Green Party that Jacinda Ardern’s popularity will mean they will poll lower than when they were in Opposition and the party will have to depend on its loyal base to ensure its vote does not crash below 5 percent.

                The Greens crashing out of Parliament would have the effect of inflating National’s share of seats, making it less likely they would need support partners to govern.

                That the Green Party leadership are missing a prime opportunity to raise their Party profile should be concerning, to Green Party members and supporters.

                So come on James and Marama, break the silence, get out and vigorously defend your corner.

                Take a note from Ocasio Cortez who answers every Republican attack and raises her profile in the process.

          • Psycho Milt

            Picture it the other way. We’re all aware that the Taxpayers’ Union is an ACT/National-run astro-turfing operation (and genuinely an astroturfing initative, unlike Gen Zero being allegedly a Green Party astroturfing initiative).

            Not many outside of those interested in politics are aware of that. But, suppose the leaders of ACT and National went to the effort of putting out a release to media denying that the Taxpayers’ Union is an ACT/National astroturfing operation. Their die-hard supporters might be chuffed to read their staunch denial, but most people reading it would be hearing for the accusation for the first time, and would think “Hmm, no smoke without fire – they wouldn’t be making such a fuss if they didn’t have something to hide, I guess the Taxpayers’ Union must really be a Nat/ACT astroturfing operation.”

            Shaw would be a mug to get tempted into denying this.

            • Robert Guyton

              He’s no mug, 4 shaw.

            • Jenny - How to get there?

              The conspiracy theorists mantra;

              Never believe anything until the Government denies it, Eh, Psycho

              What do you think about Muller’s other accusation which directly targets the government? That the Government are, “….blinded by Green ideology”. ?

              Do you also think that James Shaw as the Minister shouldn’t answer this accusation, in case people think he was being defensive and had something to hide?

              If what you maintained here was true, Psycho, then the Minister and the Government should never defend themselves from opposition attacks.

              Do you really think that if James Shaw got off his chuff and took the opportunity to respond with his own opinion piece, in which he laid out the best up-to-date, science backed information available to him. Which showed that the government is not blinded by Green ideology, but in fact is acting on the best scientific information available, that most people would disregard this, and instead think ‘Hmm, no smoke without fire’, the government must be blinded by Green ideology.

              • Never believe anything until the Government denies it, Eh, Psycho

                Not what I was saying at all. Just pointing out a PR commonplace, that if you go out of your way to publicly deny some piece of foolishness about you that most people would never have heard anyway, the biggest effect of your denial is to associate you with that foolishness in the minds of the people who would otherwise never have heard of it. Sometimes it’s better to just ignore stupid stuff.

                What do you think about Muller’s other accusation which directly targets the government? That the Government are, “….blinded by Green ideology”. ?

                I think “Well, he would say that, wouldn’t he?” Even if National weren’t ideologically opposed to everything the Green Party stands for, it would still be his job as an Opposition MP to trash-talk the government. Issuing outraged denials would give the trash-talk more credibility than it deserves.

                …if James Shaw got off his chuff and took the opportunity to respond with his own opinion piece, in which he laid out the best up-to-date, science backed information available to him…

                How would that be different from all the other press releases he puts out on this subject, eg International global warming report lays out the critical challenge?

                • Jenny - How to get there?

                  How would that be different from all the other press releases he puts out on this subject, eg International global warming report lays out the critical challenge?

                  Psycho Milt

                  It would be different,
                  It would be a living rebuttal, part of an impassioned debate in reply.

                  Shaw’s rebuttal if he chose to make it, would have a frisson not commonly found in a dry academic treatise, or one sided press release, or essay,
                  As such it would be likely to get far more media and public attention.

                  Who knows; Shaw’s rebuttal (if he ever makes one), may even draw a counter response from Todd Muller, which would continue and heighten the public interest in this very important debate, and bring out the issues in a way that no one-sided monologue ever could.

                  At the very least it could lift Shaw’s public invisibility.

                  • solkta

                    Shaw’s current objective is to get the widest possible buy in for the Zero Carbon Act. This particularly includes National. For National to support it they will have to go through some face saving process, otherwise they would have to admit to being fuck useless and/or wrong. They will need to continue to signal to their core support that they can be relied upon to put the economy first. There is no benefit in Shaw engaging in a public scrap that could push National into a public position of opposition to the Bill.

                    • Jenny - How to get there?

                      There is no benefit in Shaw engaging in a public scrap that could push National into a public position of opposition to the Bill.


                      And I could think of three benefits, at least.

                      1/ It could rescue the Greens from their current public invisibility and resulting low polling results, which risks political oblivion

                      2/ It would represent a clear division between the government and the opposition.

                      If the results in the polls above are credible, a clear difference between the Government and the Opposition over climate change, could greatly influence which way undecided voters choose to place their ballot. to the benefit of the government.

                      What are the negative results of your strategy?

                      What are the negatives from allowing Opposition to attack the government without response, in the hope that they will back the Zero Carbon Bill?

                      From Todd Muller’s statement it seems that the opposition has three basic pre-conditions for supporting the Zero Carbon bill,

                      1, On a change of government immediate repeal the current government’s ban on issuing new oil and gas exploration permits.

                      2, pushi any concrete action towards making New Zealand Zero Carbon away from action in the here and now. and into some time in the future.

                      3, Thirdly, to not move faster than any of our competitors.

                      Plus reserving the right to attack the government unhindered and unchallenged.

                    • solkta

                      I think you are far more concerned with your “war” than with actually making sustainable changes to the law to address CC.

                      I don’t see the article as an attack on the government but rather as Nact trying to justify itself to itself. They are between a rock and a hard place. If they support the Bill they risk their core supporters considering they have sold out, but if they don’t support the Bill then they risk alienating lots of centrist voters who are becoming continually more concerned about CC.

                      They are not going to get the things you list. If they don’t support the Bill as a consequence it will pass anyway, and then will be the time for you to bayonet their guts.

          • Dennis Frank

            “Are Gen Zero a Green Party front, or not? The public need to know.”

            No evidence for that at all, is there? In psychology, they call this projection. The GP does not need a front. The fact that a lobby group has goals which seem similar, if not identical, is not reason to assume any deeper relationship.

            Toddy is trying to make himself hot via Muldoonist framing (`anyone who disagrees with me is a communist’). I very much doubt tapping into Muldoon nostalgia will make a hot toddy.

      • SaveNZ 3.1.2

        Generation zero seems more like a corporate driven group as seen by it’s website, which is all about getting donations, volunteers, and so forth run with a development agenda which ‘sprung’ up to support unitary plan and more urbanisation branded under buzz words like carbon neutral etc in cities. Very subjective to brand themselves for youth. How many youth are there wanting more concessions to developers to create $600+k apartments? Not many I know of!

        • Jenny - How to get there?

          Weird then, that Todd Muller should single them out for attack.

          Maybe Muller senses that Gen Zero are encroaching on what he sees as his natural constituency, and that his pandering to the oil and gas lobby, is losing ground, even with conservatives, and business.

          • SaveNZ

            How NZ has changed from being Green, clean social democrat country to the current neoliberal Nat Lite one, is by keeping all discourses and solutions as far right as possible and appropriating groups and pretending to speak for them through marketing aka pretending to speak for ‘youth’ when you are really pushing a slightness left version of a right future.

            Example GenZero were for the PPP for Skypath which charges walkers and cyclists while the trucks and cars go across Auckland Harbour Bridge for free? Sound like a front for PPP’s and developers pretending to represent sustainable carbon free future or having completely privatisation led solutions that apparently youth are all for, sarcasm?

            • Jenny - How to get there?

              I am not aware that Gen Zero have ever claimed to speak for all youth.

              But if the rest of what you say is true. Strange, that Todd Muller finds them so threatening.

              Maybe Muller is much, much, further to the Right than he tries to make out.

              Or maybe Muller is trying to attack the wider climate movement through attacking Gen Zero

              Who knows?

              Whatever the murky motives for Muller’s attack on Gen Zero, all further reason for James Shaw to take a stand and debunk Muller’s attack on the government and defend the climate movement.

            • One Two

              SNZ, I suspect you are on the correct track…

              Some more time will tell the full story…

              The Greens are gatekeepers…GZ appears to have taken up a similar position at the gate…

          • solkta

            Weird then, that Todd Muller should single them out for attack.

            I’m thinking you didn’t spend a lot of time reading the article. It starts off Despite the claims of Generation Zero, with the “claims of generation Zero” clickable which takes you to an article on Stuff from last Wednesday where Lisa McLaren, who leads the Zero Carbon Act campaign for Generation Zero, attacks Muller and Bridges and National’s record:

            I believe it is high time for the National Party to retire their climate villain persona. US president Donald Trump has already taken that position on the global stage so it’s time for National to bow out gracefully.

            Let me be clear – if we get an insufficient draft Zero Carbon Bill next year it will be because the National Party is using the futures of all Kiwis as a political football. An ego-driven, point scoring game.

            So if you have a problem with ambitious climate action, Mr Bridges and Mr Muller, then step aside. It appears you wouldn’t know ambition if you tripped over it. What is being proposed next year with the Zero Carbon Bill is the bare minimum. So let’s pull on our collaboration boots and get on with the job.


            Muller is not going on the attack but is rather fighting a rear guard defensive action (another war analogy since i know you like that stuff).

            • Jenny - How to get there?

              Hi Solka. Yes I had missed that.

              Thanks for pointing it out.

              Personally I think that Lisa Mclaren’s criticisms of National are well founded.

              Mclaren calls on National (in quite flowery language), to pull their collaboration boot on. ie work with the government over the Zero Carbon Bill. Todd Muller and National are refusing to negotiate over the Zero Carbon bill in good faith. Instead setting out hard preconditions and demands that have effectively torpedoed the negotiations.

      • Ad 3.1.3

        Shaw is smart not to respond at all.

        • Jenny - How to get there?

          I suppose, if Shaw’s silence in the face of opposition attacks continues, that at least the Greens will know who to blame when they miss the 5% threshold.

          • Ad

            gives a damn about polls.

            Shaw has his sight on cross-parliamentary carbon act.

            Eyes on the prize Jenny.

        • Jenny - How to get there?

          Shaw is foolish to continue with the negotiations while National are insisting on non-negotiable demands.

          • Ad

            What details of the negotiations over the bill are you privy to?

            • Jenny - How to get there?

              I am not privy to any demands that Todd Muller himself has not made public.

              But the hard demands he has made public are the right to return to deep sea oil exploration and drilling.

              And that New Zealand must not lead any of our trading partners in any climate change legislation.

              The National Party’s other more wishy washy demand, as voiced by Todd Muller, National’s Climate change Spokesperson, is that New Zealand not do anything about climate change in the here and now, which is what Gen Z are demanding and which has seen them particularly singled out for Todd Muller’s ire.

              • solkta

                But the hard demands he has made public

                He hasn’t made any demands at all. All he has done is spout some rhetoric.

  4. Interesting…

    On 15 January, they are set to update the World Magnetic Model, which describes the planet’s magnetic field and underlies all modern navigation, from the systems that steer ships at sea to Google Maps on smartphones.

    The most recent version of the model came out in 2015 and was supposed to last until 2020 — but the magnetic field is changing so rapidly that researchers have to fix the model now. “The error is increasing all the time,” says Arnaud Chulliat, a geomagnetist at the University of Colorado Boulder and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s (NOAA’s) National Centers for Environmental Information.


    Worth noting – “Update, 9 January: The release of the World Magnetic Model has been postponed to 30 January due to the ongoing US government shutdown.”

  5. Jesse McKinley, a New York Times journalist, wrote on Twitter: “It sounds like spy fiction but it is not: the FBI was investigating the president of the United States to see if he was working for the Russians.”

    The president tried to fight back in characteristic style, by firing off half a dozen intemperate tweets.

    The first said: “Wow, just learned in the Failing New York Times that the corrupt former leaders of the FBI, almost all fired or forced to leave the agency for some very bad reasons, opened up an investigation on me, for no reason & with no proof, after I fired Lyin’ James Comey, a total sleaze!”


    The endgame beginning for the putrid pinnacle.

  6. A great article that will support non toxic masculinity

    For the first time in its 127-year history, the American Psychological Association has issued guidelines to help psychologists specifically address the issues of men and boys — and the 36-page document features a warning.

    “Traditional masculinity ideology has been shown to limit males’ psychological development, constrain their behavior, result in gender role strain and gender role conflict and negatively influence mental health and physical health,” the report warns.


    The Cure

    • Maybe the APA are closet IDLES fans:

      • marty mars 6.1.1

        That was great. Bookmarked.

        • Psycho Milt

          I think hearing Joe Talbot bellowing “I kissed a boy and I liked it!” and pondering why that has so much more impact than Katy Perry kissing a girl and liking it would be a good starting point for those wondering what ‘toxic masculinity’ is.

    • Chris T 6.2

      What a crock of complete horse shit.

      What is “toxic masculinity”?

      • McFlock 6.2.1

        The new “Guidelines for the Psychological Practice with Boys and Men” defines “masculinity ideology” as “a particular constellation of standards that have held sway over large segments of the population, including: anti-femininity, achievement, eschewal of the appearance of weakness, and adventure, risk, and violence.” The report also links this ideology to homophobia, bullying and sexual harassment.

        Even if you reject the behaviour towards other demographic groups, surely “walking off” injuries rather than treating them, or keeping depression to oneself until suicide happens are both “toxic”?

        • Chris T

          If that is your definition of being masculine then you need to think a bit more.

          How about protecting your family and making sure they are happy?

          How about making sure your partner has the support they need

          And your kids

          How about etc etc etc

          • McFlock

            You asked what “toxic masculinity” is. I repeated the definition, and added a couple of general examples which have occurred to my knowledge over the years. You then ask if that’s my definition of “masculinity”?

            No, it’s not my approach to masculinity. But it is one I have encountered. And I’ve met some men who could provide for their families (“protection” being largely exagerrated as a requirement in this day and age) without carrying the toxic aspects of previous generations.

          • Psycho Milt

            How about protecting your family…

            Jeez where you live bro?

          • shadrach

            Hi Chris,

            Unfortunately we live in a world of labels, and some of these labels irritate us to the point of ignoring an underlying value. The term ‘toxic masculinity’ is typical of such a label. Because it has been variously defined, it is often poorly understood or simply dismissed.

            But underneath the irritating label, there is value, because in a world in which radical feminism has at times sought to emasculate men, it is important that men are able to reclaim true manhood.

            If you are interested there is a very good article at https://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/the-difference-between-toxic-masculinity-and-being-a-man-dg/, which defines Toxic masculinity in the following words :

            “…a narrow and repressive description of manhood, designating manhood as defined by violence, sex, status and aggression. It’s the cultural ideal of manliness, where strength is everything while emotions are a weakness; where sex and brutality are yardsticks by which men are measured, while supposedly “feminine” traits – which can range from emotional vulnerability to simply not being hypersexual – are the means by which your status as “man” can be taken away.”

      • marty mars 6.2.2

        Have a read of it. You’re going off half cocked.

      • greywarshark 6.2.3

        Gee gee I like that one ‘a crock of complete horse shit.’

        You remind me of Wayne and Shuster the Canadian comedy duo from long ago.
        they used to come up with one-liners; here is a clip. They are funnier than you, but you can keep trying and may be a winner on stage and screen.

  7. Andre 7

    If anyone is interested in what’s actually at the US-Mexico border right now, here’s an interactive map that lets you look at aerial helicopter footage anywhere you want along the entire length.


    Spoiler: wherever there’s easy access, there’s pedestrian fence or wall. Fence meaning tall closely spaced steel columns. Wherever it’s remote but still drivable, there’s vehicle barrier fencing. It’s only in very rugged terrain (mostly in parks and reserves) or where there another natural barrier such as the Rio Grande that’s there’s nothing. And the whole damn thing is heavily sensored and patrolled, even the remote areas with no physical barrier.

  8. Dennis Frank 8

    “When 44-year-old Julián Castro officially launched his presidential campaign Saturday, he became one of the youngest candidates in the prospective 2020 Democratic field — and the first major Latino candidate.” https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/12/julian-castro-2020-election-democrats-1098636

    He’s a “former San Antonio mayor and former secretary of Housing and Urban Development” (Obama cabinet). His twin brother (a congressman) will be his campaign chair.

    “His biggest asset is he’s a policy wonk. I mean, this guy is really, really smart,” said Gilberto Hinojosa, the Texas Democratic Party chairman. “He knows a lot about a lot of issues. He is extremely articulate. He’s got really good ideas and he’s able to put those ideas in terms where ordinary Americans can understand them and I think what that does is puts him in the situation where he is best, not only talking to large crowds but talking to smaller crowds where he can answer questions and articulate and share his ideas on his vision for America.”

    “The United States Census uses the ethnonym Hispanic or Latino to refer to “a person of Dominican, Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin regardless of race”. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latino

    “Latinos made up an estimated 11% of all voters nationwide on Election Day, nearly matching their share of the U.S. eligible voter population (U.S. citizens ages 18 and older).” “In U.S. congressional races nationwide, an estimated 69% of Latinos voted for the Democratic candidate and 29% backed the Republican candidate”. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/11/09/how-latinos-voted-in-2018-midterms/

  9. Draco T Bastard 9

    It all began, as usual, with the Greeks

    1.5 Plato’s Right-wing Collectivist Utopia
    Plato’s search for a hierarchical, collectivist utopia found its classic expression in his most famous and influential work, The Republic. There, and later in The Laws, Plato sets forth the outline of his ideal city-state: one in which right oligarchic rule is maintained by philosopher—kings and their philosophic colleagues, thus supposedly ensuring rule by the best and wisest in the community. Underneath the philosophers in the coercive hierarchy are the”guardians” — the soldiers, whose role is to aggress against other cities and lands and to defend their polis from external aggression. Underneath them are to be the body of the people, the despised producers: laborers, peasants, and merchants who produce the material goods on which the lordly philosophers and guardians are to live. These three broad classes are supposed to reflect a shaky and pernicious leap if there ever was one — the proper rule over the soul in each human being.

    Thousands of years, no change.

    The system we have has been destroying societies for a long time as resources are used to provide only for the few at the top. It is time to change from this failed hierarchical system and go to a full democracy and to base our economy upon what is needed to ensure that all have a good living standard while also keeping resource use at a sustainable level.

    • Grant 9.1

      Question: Have you actually read, closely and in full The Republic?

      • Draco T Bastard 9.1.1


        • McFlock

          Then why did you need to cut&paste from mises.org, a site ISTR is not exactly left wing?

          “despised workers” involves a large amount of unique interpretation of the work, in my opinion. If the attitude is more neutral, then The Republic could also apply to a centrally-planned left wing society, almost communist in nature. Not democratic, but without alienation between members of that society.

          Could you, based on your close reading of Republic, please point us to the section where Plato expresses or implies that he (via his Socratic Mary Sue) despises workers.

    • Dennis Frank 9.2

      He did that because Athens had trialled democracy for a couple of centuries before abandoning it. The interesting part is why everyone formed a consensual view that the experiment was a failure.

      ” In 621 BC, Draco codified a set of notoriously harsh laws designed to reinforce aristocratic power over the populace.” That’s obviously why they decided he was a bastard.

      “In the year 507 B.C., the Athenian leader Cleisthenes introduced a system of political reforms that he called demokratia, or “rule by the people.” This system was comprised of three separate institutions: the ekklesia, a sovereign governing body that wrote laws and dictated foreign policy; the boule, a council of representatives from the ten Athenian tribes; and the dikasteria, the popular courts in which citizens argued cases before a group of lottery-selected jurors. Although this Athenian democracy would survive for only two centuries…” https://www.history.com/topics/ancient-greece/ancient-greece-democracy

      “Participation was not open to all residents, but was instead limited to an adult, male citizens (i.e., not a foreign resident, a slave, or a woman), who “were probably no more than 30 percent of the total adult population.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athenian_democracy

      If they had ditched the patriarchy & included women, one suspects an increase in resilience in the design & likelihood of lasting longer. “Democracy was suppressed by the Macedonians in 322 BC. The Athenian institutions were later revived, but how close they were to a real democracy is debatable.” “Athens was not the only polis in Ancient Greece that instituted a democratic regime.”

      The wikipedia editors lost the plot here: “democratic forms persisted until the Macedonian army of Phillip II conquered Athens in 338 BC.” A sixteen year discrepancy with the date given in the previous paragraph.

      Then “democracy was restored in 307 BC. However, by now Athens had become “politically impotent”. An example of this was that, in 307, in order to curry favour with Macedonia and Egypt, three new tribes were created, two in honour of the Macedonian king and his son, and the other in honour of the Egyptian king.”

      Sadly, the creation of new tribes as a political strategy has fallen out of favour. Just think what a boon it would be to the American people at present. Creating a new tribe of trumpians would be a clever move. Park them on a reservation somewhere, build a nice wall around them to make them feel protected. Trump would jump at the chance of becoming their king, and would promptly resign as president in considerable relief.

      • Dennis Frank 9.2.1

        Wikipedia reports on the failure of Greek democracy:

        “Athenian democracy has had many critics, both ancient and modern. Ancient Greek critics of Athenian democracy include Thucydides the general and historian, Aristophanes the playwright, Plato the pupil of Socrates, Aristotle the pupil of Plato, and a writer known as the Old Oligarch. While modern critics are more likely to find fault with the restrictive qualifications for political involvement, these ancients viewed democracy as being too inclusive. For them, the common people were not necessarily the right people to rule and were likely to make huge mistakes. According to Samons:

        The modern desire to look to Athens for lessons or encouragement for modern thought, government, or society must confront this strange paradox: the people that gave rise to and practiced ancient democracy left us almost nothing but criticism of this form of regime (on a philosophical or theoretical level). And what is more, the actual history of Athens in the period of its democratic government is marked by numerous failures, mistakes, and misdeeds—most infamously, the execution of Socrates—that would seem to discredit the ubiquitous modern idea that democracy leads to good government.”

        “Thucydides, from his aristocratic and historical viewpoint, reasoned that a serious flaw in democratic government was that the common people were often much too credulous about even contemporary facts to rule justly.” You mean, like believing in the Republicans & Democrats, or National & Labour?

        “Similarly, Plato and Aristotle criticized democratic rule as the numerically preponderant poor tyrannizing the rich. Instead of seeing it as a fair system under which everyone has equal rights, they regarded it as manifestly unjust. In Aristotle’s works, this is categorized as the difference between ‘arithmetic’ and ‘geometric’ (i.e. proportional) equality.”

        “To its ancient detractors, rule by the demos was also reckless and arbitrary. Two examples demonstrate this: …” There’s the wisdom of crowds: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wisdom_of_Crowds
        There’s also the madness of crowds: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_Popular_Delusions_and_the_Madness_of_Crowds

        • greywarshark

          Democracy was in the making. Getting the recipe right relies on good thinking and commitment. And there is always the transfer of power. Ever been on a committee and sat through numerous sessions working out a viable plan. Then the next group of numbskulls changes it all without even reading the work that has gone before. This is the difficulty with humans. The new is always better and somebody has a ‘cunning idea’ and wants to be thought the big man.

  10. greywarshark 10


    Christchurch designer Steven Junil was an art school student when he committed to creating only objects with both functionality and integrity.

    The 26-year-old hand-makes clothes, shoes and accessories with natural, found and recycled materials for his label 6×4.

    “The garment industry is so problematic, it is the second most polluting industry in the world next to petroleum and there are massive ethical issues as well. I think it’s good to be passionate about clothing – and I’m very passionate about clothing – but you can’t really separate the fact that the fashion industry has so many ethical issues, particularly environmentally. If you’re looking at the wider world of what’s happening in the world of fashion or clothing you can’t ignore the context.

    “I’m trying to make stuff that has integrity in terms of where the materials come from and how they’re used and trying to do things on a smaller scale because if I produce everything myself I can have a lot of control over how things are made.”

    Should we organise a Saturday when women are encouraged not to buy any new female clothes! Good for their pocket, good for the NZ balance of paymenhts? and good for the waste fills. And go op shoppping instead if you have to buy.

  11. Tamati Tautuhi 11

    Tulsi Gabbard to stand for POTUS, Democrats and Republicans not happy, they reckon she is another one of “Putins Puppets ?”

  12. Eco Maori 12

    This is a excellent way to build a cost effective enviromentally friendly whare / house harvest rain water compost toilet wood stove for cooking and solar panels for the devives and lights . His cost to keep the whare running would be low and so would the whare carbon foot print . The cost of a sepitc tank for the olden style toilets are massive some places you can build your own sepitc systems like my dad did .
    But for most one is looking at $20.000 at the least for the sepitc system and connecting to the power grid can cost the same as one can build a off grid solar power system with minimal cost to maintain the system new battries every few years
    Bart Cox lives in a former smoko room. His house cost less than his stove.Bart Cox works for Greater Wellington Regional Council as an environmental adviser. He’s pictured in his Carterton home, with his girlfriend Isobel MacKinnon, an actor, director, and theatre maker, and his mum, Liz.
    BART: I grew up in Wellington but I have a connection to Wairarapa – my family on mum’s side have been there for some time. Mum moved back to Masterton when I was 15, when my dad died. I was painting mum’s shed for her one day and I had this overwhelming feeling that I should move there. I asked Mum if I could put a little house on her block of land, out of Carterton. She said she’d love that.

    I was working in this delicatessen in Masterton making coffee, living in a caravan. This guy Jim was a building recycler, but he hates knocking down buildings, especially if they’re nice old wooden ones. He always tries to resell the materials or, even better, resell the house to someone else who wants to remove it from the land. He was a regular in the deli, and one day he was trying to sell the customers a little smoko room from this industrial part of Masterton. He had pictures of it on his phone. I knew if I looked at it I’d probably want it. Eventually I was like, “OK, give me a look at the photos.” And I was like, “Argh! I Love it!” He goes, “Come on. Just buy it off me. Otherwise I’m going to have to knock it down.” I was like, “I can’t, it’s too A local removal company plonked it down on the land and I got into doing it up. It’s only 50 square metres. It was lined with all kinds of materials like MDS but underneath the bones were mostly old native timbers from the 60s. to much of a project.” He sold it to me for $2500.
    I gibbed it inside and connected it to solar panels with my friend Ed. His way is sort of DIY – you can tailor-make it to your lifestyle. The house ended up being like something from pre-internet era – all wood and simple technologies – and then it suddenly jumps right into the future: high-tech in a small way. Ka kite ano links below
    P.S I see the alt right trolls jumping on this good story to one can build a house down south that needs no extra heat Tama-nui-te-RA provides all we need.


  13. Eco Maori 13

    Air pollution is as bad for pregnant women as smoking in raising the risk of miscarriage, according to a scientific study. They said the finding was upsetting and that toxic air must be cut to protect the health of the next generation.
    Air pollution is already known to harm foetuses by increasing the risk of premature birth and low birth weight. Recent research has also found pollution particles in placentas.
    The effect of long-term exposure to dirty air on the risk of miscarriage has been analysed previously. Studies from Brazil to Italy to Mongolia found a link, but others failed to do so.
    However, the latest study is the first to assess the impact of short-term exposure to air pollution. It found that raised levels of nitrogen dioxide (NO2) pollution that are commonplace around the world increased the risk of losing a pregnancy by 16%.
    It’s pretty profound,” said Dr Matthew Fuller, at the University of Utah’s department of emergency medicine and one of the research team. “If you compare that increase in risk to other studies on environmental effects on the foetus, it’s akin to tobacco smoke in first trimester pregnancy loss.” NO2 is produced by fuel burning, particularly in diesel vehicles.

    Air pollution harm to unborn babies may be global health catastrophe, warn doctors
    Read more

    The research, published in the journal Fertility and Sterility, was conducted in Salt Lake City in the US, and surrounding urban areas. But Fuller said the results were applicable elsewhere: “There are many places in the world that suffer from pollution that is far greater, so this is not a problem unique to Utah. This is a problem we are all facing.” NO2 levels in Salt Lake City are similar to those in cities such as London and Paris.
    Fuller was initially alerted to the issue when a family member lost a miscarried during a particularly poor period of air quality in 2016. He said: “That triggered the question in my mind and then I started noticing anecdotally that I was seeing spikes in miscarriage Ka kite ano links below.


  14. Eco Maori 14

    Eco Maori backs our Papatuanuku World society to change the way we live drop the negitive effects in the way we live at the minute to a life style that does not ruin OUR enviroments that we leave behind for te mokopunas grandchildren.
    We have to move away from the modle of growth is best .Goverments like this modle why because they are sold the theory that they can use inflation to borrow money now and in the future the money leant is less of a % of GDP but in reality they are still loading te mokopunas with DEPT because inflation takes a % of ones purchasing power per unit I.E the dollars. So inflation is loading the future a burden that we leave the grandchildred the dollar has less value than when the grandparents had that dollar hence property is the best currency to give the moko’s.
    Albert Einstein theory is a fact one can not get nothing for nothing money power goods .
    We need to make goods to last a life time Thanks to Japan for making cars that are reliable and can last for 30 years or longer with good care. With the grandchildren in mind we must move away from those modles to one were we value life before money profts The capitialist system has to evovle or collapse Isaac Newton humans have to evovle or collapse . Eco Maori can see the new currency evolving NOW what is that well it will be the amount of hits one gets on there pages on the many platforms on the internet at the minute in the future everyone will have there own online profile given by goverments that is unhackable and it will have value a big value component to it the more LIKES or HITS one gets the more value that person has the more dislikes the less value one has and so on. I say that will be the start of Equality for all. People/Countrys that go around spraying wai on the world other beings will soon be worthless hence a world society with a humane conscience that is rewarded for good behaviour and punished for bad behaviour . This is the world the 00.1% are trying to fool us that EXIST now the intelligent people know that is a FAllACY we know that the wealthy can do what they want if they get caught cheating killing plundering there money buys them a get out of jail free card while the 99% get the harshest end of there laws heaped on us. Ka kite ano links below.

  15. Eco Maori 15

    Kia ora Mike from Newshub That was not very good behaviour from our over seas guests. The gnome has vanished it will be melted down by now it looks like they we all skinny buggers feeding there PE habitats. The warming of Tangaroa and global warming has been covered up for so long it’s now showing us reality the harshest weather man kind has seen is rising out of Tangaroa. I have seen a good movie on allergic reaction to food its best to expose children earlier in life to all things that can cause them problems later in life instead of keeping them in a glass bubble. Some of my Mokopunas were allergic to a animal they kept the animals and now they are fine. One of my workers had his eye swell in the Bush I told him to harden up next minute I seen him I got one van to take him to get some antihistamine tablets he had hay fever. Some of the world leaders think they can hide their body language from most people but some can read them like a book. I say the unprocessed grass feed meat is good for people My meat consumption has dropped but just because its to expensive to buy now. Some mothers do have them that young Australian boy crashed his girlfriends car him and his m8 pushed it home
    The Antonio Gaudies design church in Barcelona is a magnificent building it will be really cool to see it when it’s finished. I don’t fancy eating chicken feathers it’s all protein tho A. Ka kite ano

  16. Eco Maori 16

    Yes I know a few of you would have had a sore face but you got my point.

  17. Eco Maori 17

    We have to make laws to force battery makers into making them reusable / recyclable now don’t wait till we have a sea full of waste and try and fix the problem thats not very intelligent and cost will be 1000 % more to the pocket and enviroment having the forsight to see the problem now and not weight till its a disaster is the correct way to handle this problem .
    Ion age: why the future will be battery powered
    The variable nature of wind and solar power means storing energy is a huge part of the fight to mitigate climate change
    Why have batteries become important?
    In a world increasingly anxious about climate change, the surge in the generation of renewable energy over the past 20 years offers a sliver of hope. But the variable nature of wind and solar power means that storing energy until consumers need it has become the next big challenge. And so, large-scale battery installations are springing up across electricity grids around the world, to make them more flexible. In 2017, more than 1GW of energy storage capacity was added around the world – a record, yes, but still a drop in the ocean of global energy demand.
    So how many of these big batteries are there?
    There is around 500MW of large-scale battery capacity installed around the UK, a figure that is expected to double within three years, according to the analysts Aurora Energy Research. Almost all capacity uses lithium-ion.
    Globally installed capacity is expected to top 50GW by 2020 – and surge to almost 1,000GW by 2040, according to Bloomberg NEF. That would equate to about 7% of the world’s energy capacity.
    What about other modes of transport?
    Electric double-decker buses, built by the Chinese manufacturer BYD, already ply the streets of London. Elon Musk has announced plans for an electric truck.
    But the energy density required for heavy transport makes it a lot harder for batteries to beat fossil fuels. “It’s definitely more challenging,” says Prof Paul Shearing, the Royal Academy of Engineering’s chair in emerging battery technologies. “[But] I think the future is going to be electric, no matter which way you cut it.”
    Will we all be flying around in electric jumbo jets soon? “Not yet,” says Shearing, who adds that energy density and weight of batteries meant there would probably only be used in unmanned aerial vehicles in the short term. “I think it’ll be a long time until we see an electric passenger plane,” he says.
    What next?
    Companies are working hard to increase the amount of energy that can be packed into a battery, and to bring down the cost of making them.
    Future prices are unlikely to fall as fast as they have in the past, says Ostermann, because reductions have already been so rapid. Sonnen has seen prices fall from more than €1,000 (£905) per kilowatt hour of capacity when it started in 2010, to about €150-200 per kWh today. But the company expects to cut costs in electronics such as inverters.
    New wonder materials will take a while to break through, Shearer says. “The next 10 years are going to continue to be lithium-ion dominated. It’s taken a long time to get to this productivity and technological maturity level. For anything to catch up will take a while.”
    Most innovation will be around lithium-ion, he believes, such as improving the energy density and lowering costs by reducing the amount of cobalt in a battery. The rate at which batteries can take on a charge will also improve, Shearer adds.
    Radcliffe agrees that lithium-ion will continue to dominate. Cost and performance will improve, driven by the scale-up of manufacturing and continued research, he says.
    Batteries will also be put to new uses. Fisker says that as technology improves, he expects to see them eventually appear on construction sites, in mines and in industrial equipment, replacing diesel generators. They will be deployed in increasingly small devices, such as medical implants, Shearer says.
    Ka kite ano links below


  18. Eco Maori 18

    Bio fuels will power our Planes and Ships

  19. Eco Maori 19

    This is the future bio fuel

  20. Eco Maori 20

    Solar powering OUR grandchildrens sustainable healthy happy future.

  21. Eco Maori 21

    This is another way to solve our plastic waster problem’s

  22. Eco Maori 22

    This is how corrupt the NZ justice system is first the sandflys play silly buggers on the road and get there m8’s to give Eco Maori false fines . I go to the police station because I have some how over paid fines there no help what so ever then I tryed ringing on the 7/1/19 I get told they would send me out a form to file for hardship . That was a totally falous call because I go to the court house and they say no record of the call and there is a warrent for my arrest WTF for fines they are to scared to arrest Eco Maori tangata.
    No wonder they have stepped up there indimadation games in the last 2 weeks the system is corupt whano keep your nose clean and stay out of its CLAWS because the unjustice system will never let you go Ka kite ano

    • Eco Maori 22.1

      I tryed to post a story with Peter Tosh song but the sandflys are stuffing with my computer it’s about how the younger people behaviour is better than the last generation Ka kite ano

  23. Eco Maori 24

    Here is a link with my HUAWEI phone the sandflys are blocking my over divices muppets I social media is giving people a education about the system and a conscious that the 00.1 % don’t want us to have Ka kite ano links below P.S it took 2 hours to get the last post out to Te tangata


  24. Eco Maori 25

    Here you go tangata global warming is here and now don’t let the pollies lie and tell you its a myth.
    Australia extreme heatwave: records broken for highest minimum temperatures
    Severe weather conditions forecast to bring maximum temperatures 8C to 16C above average, as three towns record overnight minimums of 33C
    All-time highest minimum temperatures have been broken in three places as a heatwave sets in across much of Australia, threatening more record hot days.
    Meekatharra in Western Australia and Fowlers Gap and White Cliffs in New South Wales all registered an overnight minimum of 33C on Monday.
    Severe to extreme heatwave conditions extending from the interior of WA across South Australia, Tasmania, Victoria, the ACT and NSW will bring maximum temperatures of 8C to 12C above average, and in some places up to 16C above average before the end of the week.

    Record-breaking heatwave to hit Australia’s south-east, restricting sporting events
    Read more

    From Tuesday through to Friday, parts of South Australia, Victoria and NSW may break January heat records, with daytime maximums extending up to the mid-40s.
    “It’s quite a significant heatwave because we are expecting a number of records to fall across those areas for both minimum and maximum temperatures,” said Dean Sgarbossa, a senior meteorologist with the Bureau of Meteorology.
    Ka kite ano links below


  25. Eco Maori 27

    Kia ora Newshub no comment.
    It would be cool if the district health boards looked after our young doctors .
    I feel for the fast food staff as many of them are not given guarnteed 40 hour week and that is not on .
    Lloyd brexit is the alt right move Britain should stay in the Europeen Union.
    Simon I say NCA fees should be scrapped .
    The Knome has a turned up looks like the story is giving a few people a smile.
    NZ busniess should
    I tryed to find a song from the Cranberries in the 1990 I will keep looking its was a sad day for the world when Dolores died condolences to her love ones.
    There you go Milisa the internet and social media is change the ways of the world its giving the world a conscience and thats a GOOD phenomenon.
    That was a good picture of a pohutukawa tree bloom Alex
    Ka kite ano

  26. Eco Maori 28

    Kia ora James & Mulls from The Crowd Goes Wild its quite hot at the tennis in Melbourne
    All the best to Makere Gibbons on her new journey. Yes high prefomance sports takes a toll on ones bodys I give thanks to all of the sports stars for the entertainment they give us.
    Simon Doull is a climate change denier
    Its the week for the egg I see one has crashed the internet and now the Allblacks are painting them they are good food to don;t believe the negative story about eggs.
    The Halberg awards has a lot of people to chose from this time Storm ka kite ano

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