No country is immune from this kind of politics. After the 2020 election in New Zealand, for instance, when Labour won an absolute majority, the government engaged in unilateral decision-making that accentuated existing social cleavages – central vs local government, rural vs urban communities and Māori vs other New Zealanders, for instance.
In their turn, other political agents played upon these divisions. One can see this in the virulent social media and other attacks upon a once popular Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern, fuelled by male-female and urban-rural polarities (in elements of the Groundswell campaign, for instance), or ‘Iwi vs Kiwi’ polarities in relation to Te Tiriti.
Cui bono?
In a process described by scholars as pernicious polarisation, self-interested elites generate Us and Them perceptions by deliberately activating, exploiting or distorting latent social cleavages.
And who dosnt?
In our small, intimate society, we would be wise to hold fast to mutual goodwill and a sense of decency, recognise genuine grievances and do our utmost to address them, and look for the best in each other.
As I learned in 1993, when countries fly apart, there are no safe places to hide.
Dame Anne Salmond imparts some well founded fears.
A valid concern for sure, but I suspect alarmism works better when made more specific: generalities wash over readers, giving them no more than a vague sense of something wrong somewhere.
Ordinary citizens also need to be astute, and recognise when they are being played by self-interested political agents, whether domestic or international.
Ordinary citizens have never been astute. Nor can one blame them for being sheeple. It's innate human nature creating masses & driving democracy. Dame Anne fingers the causal agency: self-interested elites. Yet social norms produce these groups. They are a functional part of the body politic, since forever. A social reformer would have to specify a technical improvement to the design of democracy to eliminate the problem. Liberals merely complain & expect someone else to do something about it. Not fair to put her in that category though:
deliberate strengthening of the middle ground through bi-partisan policymaking, wide civic engagement and well-moderated, inclusive conversations about divisive matters, in citizens’ assemblies, for example.
There's no shortage of divisive issues in Aotearoa: euthanasia, cannabis, Covid-19 mandates and, most recently, issues raised over the Treaty of Waitangi are among the latest hot-button topics. But New Zealand has been slow to join the citizens' assembly party – the first few have only been carried out at a local council level this year.
Earlier this year, a group of eminent scientists at Auckland University warned Aotearoa's social cohesion is "straining at the seams". The looming general election would only highlight the country's "political fault lines", the researchers at the Koi Tū Centre for Informed Futures wrote in a paper, as we experienced increased polarisation fuelled by distrust in institutions, government and increased mis and disinformation.
Could be we're in a weather lull before another winter of discontent. Would make sense for some enterprising politician to demonstrate leadership, recruit a few relevant professors to co-design a collaborative public assembly. Would also need professional organisers to incorporate suitable guidelines & conditions to manage group process productively – sideline fringe nutters & screwballs who disrespect rules. https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/01/13/dame-anne-salmond-how-to-split-a-society/
Pragmatic folk will just wait to see what kind of shit emanates from the new govt & how much of each kind. However I share your cynicism re centrist do-gooders.
I don't see her alarmism as unworthy – I prefer better direction. Perpetuating malaise is poor public service so we need a proactive stance. Call me naive but I do have faith in the wisdom of the crowd. Just needs to be catalysed…
Identity politics seeks to divide us based on race, ethnicity, sexual orientation etc.
One issue I would disagree with AS about is the coalition and women. Peters made part of his election campaign protecting women's spaces , eg public bathrooms and change rooms, while providing alternatives for transgender people. He also got across the line the protection of the women's sports category.
Unfortunately Anker, rational thought is the first thing to disappear when the pressure goes on,,,and there is no doubt the pressure is on…as AS noted with her experience in Bosnia.
How the world works is complicated enough without adding the stressor of increasingly restricted resources….it makes for bad decision making and easy (and erroneous) targets….weve had both of late.
An inspection has found the worm farm operation to be non-compliant with resource consent conditions. “The whole town’s had a gutsful,” Burrell said. “I was talking to a young woman who was pregnant down at the supermarket, and she was dry-retching."
When worthy Green enterprises make locals want to throw up, we got a problem needing a solution.
He had been told the worm farm did not require public notification or consultation. “They don’t need to consult the public. That’s where it fails right there. We don’t even get to put in a submission in regards to having a s*** farm anywhere near our town. We don’t even have a say in it. It’s just a real slap in the face,” Burrell said.
Blame the Labour/Green govt for slack law-making? The report gives us no apparent basis for doing so – seems like Sir Geoffrey's old RMA did it, but don't blame him. That prescription designed in compliance methodology…
The regional council’s acting compliance manager, Trudy Richards, said a compliance officer visited the site on Tuesday and found it to be non-compliant with its resource consent for discharges to air. “The officer found uncovered windrows that were likely generating odours and confirmed non-compliance,” Richards said. “We are working with site staff to improve their management practices and odour mitigation in accordance with the resource consent, and further compliance action is being considered.”
No Enforcement Commissar?? The problem's been happening long enough:
Burrell said the smell had been noticeable in town for years. "This has been going on too long. It’s more prevalent when you’re closer to it, obviously, …whenever the wind comes through town it’s pretty fierce… Enough already. How much more do they want us to tolerate?”
The enforcement is through the Environment Court. However, as it is expensive to take such cases, Councils will only use the Ratepayers $$$$$ to do it as a last resort.
Quite clever neolib design, eh? Polarise locals against local authorities. Escalate hostility on purpose so as to breed subversive ethos amongst sheeple. I could almost applaud the sleight of hand, if yawning weren't a better option…
"Lira’s father, Gonzalo Lira Sr., provided a statement on his son’s death to The Grayzone, saying, “I cannot accept the way my son has died. He was tortured, extorted, and incommunicado for 8 months and 11 days, and the US Embassy did nothing to help my son"
In fact, Adrian, "the West" (i.e. Washington and London) are not defending Ukraine at all, they're supplying them with arms and insisting they keep sacrificing young men in this doomed proxy war. Zelensky was about to sue for peace in March 2022; that democratic champion Boris Johnson was despatched to Kiev to browbeat him out of such foolish behaviour.
The rest is blood-stained, and U.S./U.K.-funded, history.
The Ukrainian side says that the discovery of mass russian war crimes against civilians in occupied territories made all negotiations null and void.
According to a May report from Ukrainska Pravda, the Russian side was ready for a meeting between Zelenskyy and Putin, but it later came to a halt after the discovery of War crimes in the Russian invasion of Ukraine, in particular the Bucha massacre.
The Ukrainians know that abandoning your citizens to russian torturers and murderers is immoral, and such peace deals only give russia time to prepare for their next invasion.
Trump card to be played: "This All-American Hero died because Biden refused to help him. I would have sent a squad in to rescue, told the clown it was a goer & dared him to get in the way. Rambo 1.01!
But what the hell was this guy meant to be doing in there anyway?? Being pro-Russian makes him seem a fool in the wrong place, but maybe there's more to it.
"But what the hell was this guy meant to be doing in there anyway??"…oh I don't know…being a war reporter in a supposed western backed democracy…..but then as we know, the West have no interest in democracies…and Ukraine sure as hell isn't one.
the West have no interest in democracies…and Ukraine sure as hell isn't one.
Ukraine has free and open elections, with vigorous opposition and a free press. Zelenskyy and other government officials are widely criticised and discussed in the Ukrainian media. Ukraine has changed government and president at almost every election since they left the USSR.
Russia on the other hand imprisons, outlaws or murders all political opponents, imprisons people for 7 years for writing "no war" on supermarket labels, and has the one tsar returning again and again after every presidential election….There is no free media whatsoever tolerated within russia.
He’s also gained a slew of new followers—his Telegram has about 45,000 followers, up from 20,000 on March 1, and seems to be gaining hundreds more every day. Many people seem to view him as a valuable source, and have taken to signal-boosting his content.
But his “fair-and-balanced” accounts often involve wild claims
Having myself attempted fair & balanced stances accompanied by wild claims I'm tempted to sympathise. No reason to off him but looks like locals weren't inclined to tolerate his input.
Rather a gross generalisation. Might have to pursue the search diligently awhile, but I'm confident one could eventually identify a few exceptions to that rule!
Like who, Dennis? Name one "journalist" at the BBC or the New York Times or CNN or Radio New Zealand that is an exception to that rule.
I can name one: Phil Pennington at RNZ. The rest are mere stenographers at best, and (in the case of the failing New York Times and CNN) shills for genocide.
Hmm. I suspect you have in mind those who cover international stories while my comment was general. Re RNZ, there's insufficient persona attached to the names to impact upon me, so I can only cite the general impression I get – that they try diligently to cover the public interest aspects to any story & mostly do a reasonable job.
Ever since its website put a tabloid front up I haven't taken the BBC seriously enough to focus on any of their crew & likewise the US news media although I did like Matt Taibbi's style a few years back (vampire squid on Wall St). A few who started in the TVNZ newsroom when I was there are exceptions – Simon Mercep, for instance, always had the right attitude & instincts. At TV3 Gower did ok & some others too…
Thanks, I'm okay with getting my resilience tested. Have been feeling my age noticeably more in recent years. Your question was worthwhile. I'm always interested in the interplay between a journo's professionalism & conscience. When a formula political story is the day's task, hewing to conventional diagnosis is the norm which tests the character of the pro: to clone or not to clone, that is the question…
Firstly, in Ukraine, even under martial law, freedom of speech is respected, and there is no and cannot be any criminal liability for criticizing the president. Therefore, the accusation that Lira or someone else was “jailed for criticizing Zelensky” is an outright manipulation.
Secondly, Gonzalo Lira is accused not of “criticizing Zelensky,” but of justifying Russian aggression against Ukraine (Article 436-2 of the Criminal Code of Ukraine). The investigation found that Lira:
● publicly justified the Russian invasion by claiming that a 'neo-Nazi regime' had allegedly been set up in Ukraine;
● denied the facts of Russian missile strikes on Ukrainian cities, massacres of civilian Ukrainians by Russian invaders in Bucha and other cities;
● in spring 2022, Lira personally filmed the Ukrainian military, tried to expose their faces, and insulted the soldiers. He published the video on YouTube, Telegram, and the-then Twitter.
Thirdly, Gonzalo Lira is currently in custody only because he violated the terms of his bail and tried to escape Ukrainian justice. The blogger was supposed to remain under house arrest in Kharkiv, but he was detained in another part of Ukraine: in Zakarpattia region, where Lira attempted to cross out into Hungary.
It's in the sidebar but worth emphasising due to subject matter – plus his usual humour. I used to know 'the scarecrow' well. I doubt she will mind coming from Nick Korero. Its not Jacinda btw.
I agree with his analysis of the Herald newspaper. They are sinking into the gutter.
Chris Trotter wades into the culture wars today, and argues that Prime Minister Christopher Luxon should too, highlighting the latest transgender free speech battle in his column today: “An elderly woman, wearing a T-shirt testifying to the reality of biological sex differences – ‘Men aren’t women, even if you squint’ – incurred the wrath of a transgender member of the Ōtaki New World staff, who allegedly prevailed upon the supermarket manager to eject the elderly shopper and have her trespassed from the only supermarket in the small Kāpiti Coast town” – see: When something’s not quite right (paywalled)
Trotter argues that it’s the sort of incident that the populist PM Rob Muldoon would have jumped into, and that by contrast, although Luxon was elected on a populist wave he is yet to act in a populist manner on such issues.
This is how Trotter believes Luxon should have responded to the Ōtaki New World culture war issue: “While reaffirming that all citizens, regardless of their station in life, are entitled to be treated with courtesy and respect, Luxon should also reaffirm emphatically the individual’s right to give voice to their opinions – or have them printed on a T-shirt – even if, by doing so, those opinions strike other citizens as wrong and/or offensive.
He should take the opportunity to remind us all that there is no legal right to shut down speech that does not contravene the law. There is no right NOT to be offended.”
Yet the employer, discriminating against the elderly consumer, tacitly concedes that right to the offensive employee. Perhaps trans nazi would be ott?
As for Luxon failing the Trotter populism test, I imagine his reaction: "Culture war in Otaki, eh? Bit of a laugh, what? Not me mate, I'm in holiday mode. No old boomer needs me mouthing off on their behalf. Call in Age Concern or something."
Jeez, talk about in-depth!! Great to see such passionate advocacy but too much for me at the moment (busy) so I just did a scan. I got a sense of activist solidarity which was heartening…
it's badly done activism. If they wanted to do this well, take someone to film it or at least take notes in real time and observe what is happening.
Reading the letter from the NW owner, she didn't get banned for the Tshirt, she got banned for expressing her views to staff (multiple) at different times (multiple). On TS we call that a pattern of behaviour, and it's one of the main reasons we moderate.
To me it looks like Landy was flaming. She was acting in specific ways designed to provoke a reaction. She got one and didn't like it and is now trying to make political capital out of it.
So sure, freedom of expression. But it's possible and likely she crossed over a line into harassment, in which case the owner was within their rights to ban her. That she gave him the excuse to do so is on her. If she had been banned instead for simply wearing a GC t-shirt, now that would have been useful activism.
But we don't really know what happened so unless this goes to court and/or there is CCTV footage released, there's not really any good way to judge.
What I can comment on is that No Debate by liberals and the left mean that GC action in NZ is currently largely done by people that have no commitment to the left or progressive politics. Those people aren't going to to away, but they don't appear to give a shit about the wellbeing of trans people. Own goal from the liberal left.
I did wonder at how she managed the group resonance interface & I suspect your analysis is accurate. As someone often inclined toward passionate advocacy on the past with only a moderate capacity for tolerating different views, I had quite an experiential learning curve – had no real clue about the power of context in those earlier decades. However we all must learn from our activist experiences so I hope she's doing that…
It's interesting you assume it was activism, rather than someone wearing a t-shirt.
It's also of interest that you take the ambiguous statement from New World at face value.
If that is the case, then your interpretation will be unlikely to change.
The possibility that the store employee harassed the customer, with support from the manager is also a possibility. One that would be confirmed or dismissed by release of the CCTV.
"Reading the letter from the NW owner, she didn't get banned for the Tshirt, she got banned for expressing her views to staff (multiple) at different times (multiple). On TS we call that a pattern of behaviour,"
And yet in the post by Molly that sequence of events is disputed….who is correct?…the jounalist or the (close) friend?…it is apparent that pre existing 'beliefs' determine who is to be believed.
My experience of journalism is it is never entirely accurate, sometimes negligently so.
An 'asserted' pattern of behaviour…unverified and disputed.
Of course the woman may have worn the t Shirt on more than one occasion…to her shame.
Obviously she is not a supporter of fast fashion and believes in wearing clothing to its maximum so as not to needlessly trash the environment nor unnecessarily exploit those who produce the garments.
I wear my favourite one as a form of activism. It's the "woman, adult human female" one and I get plenty of positive feedback, nothing negative so far.
While many would prefer "adult female human", making female the subject of the description works as well. The "adult" and "human" become adjectives. Even more clunkily, female human adult would work.
Despite your personal grammatical and lyrical preference, the three interchanging adjectives and subjects provide an accurate and complete definition for woman however they are applied:
Adult – post-puberty (we'll ignore a previous very strange conversation we've had in the past);
Female – sex that produces the large gamete for reproduction purposes;
the tshirt isn't the problem. Although personally I think it's unnecessarily flaming as opposed to something like Adult Human Female, or your one. There's a difference between making statements about our rights as women, and going hard against trans women in the context of transphobia.
If good activism involves getting publicity, then wearing the tee shirt has worked.
Yeah, but there are prices to pay as well. Publicity in and of itself isn't inherently good. I don't particularly blame women for how this is playing out, because our backs have been against the wall. But that doesn't mean there aren't better ways to approach this.
"There's a difference between making statements about our rights as women, and going hard against trans women in the context of transphobia."
Going hard? Transphobia?
And can we have your definition of "transphobia"? Because I am loathe to point out your use of it seems to follow the usual practice of throwing it out in order to smear or derail discussion. I would like to have your definition before making up my mind.
"Publicity in and of itself isn't inherently good. I don't particularly blame women for how this is playing out, because our backs have been against the wall. But that doesn't mean there aren't better ways to approach this."
A woman has been excluded – without provision of evidence of behaviour – from a local foodstore in a small(ish) community. The discussion is whether the response was appropriate, and whether the wearing of such apparel is permitted.
It's interesting you assume it was activism, rather than someone wearing a t-shirt.
It's also of interest that you take the ambiguous statement from New World at face value.
If that is the case, then your interpretation will be unlikely to change.
The possibility that the store employee harassed the customer, with support from the manager is also a possibility. One that would be confirmed or dismissed by release of the CCTV.
sounds like you are making fair few assumptions yourself (including about my position and views).
I am def doubtful that the tshirt alone was the issue. From having read a number of accounts now it sounds to me like she has been into that store and engaged with that particular staff member a number of times. Her own account is that heated words were exchanged. If you want to wear a tshirt like that and engage with people that the tshirt is designed to confront, then expect situations like this to happen. It's human nature and politics /shrug.
I also agree it's likely that the staff harassed the customer. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
And I agree it's not necessarily activism, although wearing that tshirt in that store is def a political act. I was responding to Dennis' comment, but also watching how it's playing out since, which looks like activism to me. I just think there are problems with doing activism this way. It reminds me of the UK where this kind of activism ends up being what happens because of No Debate. It's effective in its way, but it create problems too.
" …am def doubtful that the tshirt alone was the issue. From having read a number of accounts now it sounds to me like she has been into that store and engaged with that particular staff member a number of times."
… So far, I have read the email from Matthew Mullins as referencing the store's explanation, and the article I have posted which are close to the original sources along with third-party articles in stuff etc.
What other accounts are you referencing?
It is – given that New World is the local store – very likely that she has been into that store and engaged with that particular staff member a number of times. That's commonplace for local customers.
What you imply is that she has deliberately antagonised a staff member without provocation. That is not implicitly claimed, or been proven.
'And I agree it's not necessarily activism, although wearing that tshirt in that store is def a political act."
Buying the t-shirt – if often a political act – as it often supports the organisation that supplies it.
Wearing it, cannot be assumed to be so. And even if it is – it is not an offensive act.
“If you want to wear a tshirt like that and engage with people that the tshirt is designed to confront, then expect situations like this to happen. It’s human nature and politics /shrug.”
A T-shirt “like that”? I’m shaking my head at this comment, weka.
""Buying the t-shirt MAGA hat is often a political act – as it often supports the organisation that supplies it.
Wearing it, cannot be assumed to be so. And even if it is – it is not an offensive act."
fify"
Robert, you "fixed it for you" …
Resorting to implying Trump adjacent perspectives, by the action of wearing a t-shirt.
All good. As long as you gain some satisfaction from this type of comment, why would I want to change you?
But it is unlikely that I will admire you for it, or choose to engage very often.
I'm sure you'll live.
[please stop with the negative personalised comments. They’re unnecessary, and last time there was a major flame war that led to someone being banned. Stick to the politics, thanks – weka]
"Then – did you have a salient point that relates to the conversation?"
Well, yes, I did. To borrow (and adjust slightly) weka's words:
“If you want to wear a hat like that and engage with people that the hat is designed to confront, then expect situations like this to happen. It’s human nature and politics /shrug.”
If Luxon was to wear a MAGA hat (in public – he can do what he wants at home) then your comment,
"Buying the t-shirt – if often a political act – as it often supports the organisation that supplies it.
Wearing it, cannot be assumed to be so. And even if it is – it is not an offensive act." (emphasis mine) sounds wrong, imo.
My experience is that there are some very active GC women who are committed to the left, in fact many of the gains made by SUFW have been made by these women. The HC judgement Whitmore vs the Palmerston North CC and section 79(2) in the BDMRR Act 2021 spring to mind. These women do not wish transgender people any harm at all, they just don't believe that it is possible to change sex.
There are certainly some loud voices coming from the right in terms of GC women and I agree that many of these people do not care about trans people or gay people.
"There are certainly some loud voices coming from the right in terms of GC women and I agree that many of these people do not care about trans people or gay people."
This is an interesting comment.
Are you suggesting this particular woman is right-wing, and does not care for those with gender identities or gay people?
Or do you have some other NZ GC women in mind? Can you provide their names?
I can't think of a right wing gender critical woman in NZ that is homophobic.
I don't believe KJK has expressed homophobic views – OR – any particularly politically right economic perspectives.
The varying understandings of the words "gender critical", "transphobic" and "right-wing" lead to communication difficulties, so I try to avoid them, and only use them now to query the intent of the user so that conversation can move forward.
"Do you dispute that some gender critical women are homophobic and/or dislike trans women?"
That would be a strange position to take, given the undefined group of women who may be called – or refer to themselves – as gender critical. Given the number, I'm sure there are women in there who are guilty of the most heinous crimes, and those that kick dogs. But I haven't been exposed to the homophobia, and I follow a lot of women's rights accounts.
As for the "dislike of trans women"… IF you are aware of the harms of gender ideology, then the tolerance level for men who call themselves women does often diminish.
Given the move away from the already vague DSM-5 diagnosis (https://twitter.com/KnownHeretic/status/1724448571787972885) , the relevance of sex based differences in motivation, intention and impact becomes more important. The likelihood of paraphilias is much higher for men as a motivator, and some women recognise this more than others – whether gender critical or not.
So, I would agree that some women are dismissive of men who call themselves women. I have heard it expressed as akin to people (of all colours) objecting to blackface. It is the idea of blackface that is rejected. Also, when individuals are mentioned, it is usually in reference to a perspective they have expressed, or a boundary violation that has been made. Unfortunately, this is part of the wider discussion and has to be addressed, otherwise we participate in a lesser form of No Debate.
"I have heard it expressed as akin to people (of all colours) objecting to blackface."
That's ridiculous.
People who wear blackface don't yearn to be black, devote their lives to behaving as a "black person", undergo surgery to align physically with a black person, wear their blackface day in and day out, commit to political and social activism to establish credibility as a black person and so on.
The only universal experience of women – is inhabiting a female body.
"People who wear blackface don't yearn to be black, devote their lives to behaving as a "black person", undergo surgery to align physically with a black person, wear their blackface day in and day out, commit to political and social activism to establish credibility as a black person and so on."
All this is selection of regressive stereotypes, and secondary sex characteristics and ASSUMING this is the fundamental aspect of women.
Which is incorrect.
The politicial and social activism is necessary to coerce, shame and bully those who do not indulge in harmful belief systems, where women (and men) are reduced to these secondary characteristics.
People who wear blackface don't yearn to be black, devote their lives to behaving as a "black person", undergo surgery to align physically with a black person, wear their blackface day in and day out, commit to political and social activism to establish credibility as a black person and so on.
and not all trans women yearn to be women, devote their lives to behaving as a "woman", undergo surgery to align physically with a woman, wear their womanface day in and day out, commit to political and social activism to establish credibility as a woman and so on.
In fact, the number of trans women that surgically transition is quite small. Some of that will be access/cost, but I think it's also to do with the degree of disability that goes with surgery (pain and dysfunction). It's also because many trans identified males do in fact want to play at it.
I suspect you are thinking of transsexual males with serious gender dysphoria. The trans umbrella is much broader than that.
In addition there are non-binary males who want to be included in women's space/culture. In the years I have been involved in this debate I've not once seen an explanation for why NB males should have access to women's space and culture.
I don't like the term womanface, and there are good arguments against its use, just not the one you made.
Because what you have just done is such a common dynamic, I'm going to spell it out. Many liberals who have taken a pro-trans politics position against women's rights, have a poor understanding of the politics involved. In this case, the idea that trans women are transexuals with gender dysphoria, rather than understanding that trans now is a very, very broad term, and there is pressure to include all the trans-identified males in the category of women.
When I say that self-ID means any man can say they are a woman at any time and must be accepted as such, this is what I am talking about. It is false to argue that trans-identified males are what you described. What you described is in fact a very small proportion of TIMs.
Further, the reason you don't know this is because of No Debate, and the habitual response of liberal trans allies who simply don't listen to what left wing and other women have been saying for years.
Yes, thanks, weka, I expected a response along the lines of what you've written (well).
"I don't like the term womanface, and there are good arguments against its use, just not the one you made."
Then I defer to those good arguments. I feel the "blackface" comparison is a poor one.
"and not all trans women yearn to be women, devote their lives to behaving as a "woman", undergo surgery to align physically with a woman, wear their womanface day in and day out, commit to political and social activism to establish credibility as a woman and so on."
This is doubtless true; there are always exceptions to a rule 🙂 I was generalising, and knew it.
"In fact, the number of trans women that surgically transition is quite small." That "number" is still greater, I believe, than the number of whites who undergo surgery to become black.
Your question was: "Do you dispute that some gender critical women are homophobic and/or dislike trans women?"
Not a question about MY personal perspective, and I don't usually atttempt to answer in the place of others, but I thought the question was in good faith and attempted to answer it as such. Without excusing or making apology for perspectives that I don't share.
"I don't like the term womanface, and there are good arguments against its use, just not the one you made."
Neither do I, (and again I understand you are talking to Robert here) but I want to be clear that you asked whether I had seen other women do so, and I have. I can understand their perspective without utilising their use. A labour politician has been stood down in the UK for the crime of "liking" a social media post, making this specific reference, so it was close to hand when looking for examples of women who express distaste with men who declare themselves women:
“I don’t like the term womanface, and there are good arguments against its use, just not the one you made.”
Neither do I, but again you asked whether I had seen other women do so, and I have.
Did I? Is there reply confusion happening here? My comment about womanface was a response to RG.
I can understand their perspective without utilising their use.
Same. As with much of the war, including the actions of Landy and the person who wrote the article, I see the… tenor or character of much of the current debate as being a result of No Debate and left wing gender critical feminists in particular being excluded from public discussion.
It’s also a consequence of women being abused and ostracised and having their backs against the wall regarding women’s rights.
So I’m not usually surprised and my criticisms of Landy have been more about strategy as much as anything. But again, we have the Landy sisters doing what they do because the NZ GCFs got taken out of the game.
A labour politician has been stood down in the UK for the crime of “liking” a social media post, making this specific reference, so it was close to hand when looking for examples of women who express distaste with men who declare themselves women:
We can discuss whether this is an appropriate response to a trivial action.
See I think she should have been stood down for political ineptitude (on the face of it, I haven’t looked past your link). If she’s going to be so stupid as to not understand how that tweet would play out politically, she’s a liability to UK Labour. Much the same way as Kerekere became a liability to the Greens, because she couldn’t read the room and her comms were causing problems.
There are ways to push back against gender identity ideology without using hugely problematic tropes like in that tweet.
The standing down because of transphobia causes problems for GC women, who then react against the anti-terfery and ignore the political ineptitude, and that takes us back to the hands we have been dealt and how women will do what they need to irrespective of the damage done along the way.
And of course, it’s entirely possible that the candidate is in fact transphobic. I haven’t had time yet to reply to your comments on that from this morning, but there are a chunk of GC people who simply can’t stand trans women because they can’t stand them. We can see it in the US most obviously with those of the religious right who want transness and gender non-conformity to not exist.
I edited, probably before your reply to make clear my reference was in regards to your question, and that I understood that you were replying to Robert.
"There are ways to push back against gender identity ideology without using hugely problematic tropes like in that tweet."
Problematic is another word I'm avoiding, so I'm guessing we are going to be in disagreement.
I don't use the blackface analogy, because the two instances are not analogous. Not because it is "problematic".
I can both understand the reasoning behind those who choose to use it, and agree that there are examples of men who absolutely do perform their idea of women in a demeaning way.
I can maintain sympathy for people who have difficulty accepting their sex, without colluding with the delusion that it is possible for them to change their sex.
I can also understand the frustration of women who are confronted with men – who are neither distressed or vulnerable – but gleeful about being able to demonstrate their misogyny or paraphilia in society not only without censure, but with full support of those who consider themselves progressive.
So maybe don’t assume my use of ‘problematic’ is the same use you don’t like?
I don’t use the blackface analogy, because the two instances are not analogous. Not because it is “problematic”.
Same. Also, in GC circles (as in all of politics) there is actual racism. Using womanface makes things messy and the current debate is not only incapable of dealing with that, it’s also caused a lot of damage and division.
If this is getting too bogged down then I am happy to let it go.
However, I will make note of the fact that while aware of such women, I am also very aware of men who declare themselves to be women, expressing perspectives that both denigrate and demean women and girls. These men not only are not censured for it, they often receive accolades, financial rewards and positions of authority over women or women's advocacy.
There are many such examples. One recent one was the appointment of Munroe Bergdorf as the UN Champion for women. The comments they have made are mild compared to others but show little awareness about women, and disparagement for women who believe sex recognition matters:
What do you propose should be the consequence of stridency?
When you've cleared that up, will you then address the truth of the first statement, and the disconnection from reality that is required to consider it offensive?
These last three comments from you Robert again speak to your lack of knowledge in the area. It’s kind of like a conventional farmer trying to have a conversation about growing trees without understanding soil microbia.
Let me break it down.
I can see that “hysterical” can be, but “strident”? There’s nothing (that I can see) intrinsic in the word that might trigger anguish.
Must be an insider-thing.
Is “intense” everyday sexism?
The problem isn’t that the words trigger anguish. The problem is that they are used as tools by people, usually men, to put women in their place. That’s the difference between personal insult and politics. In class analysis, biological sex is one of the three axes of oppression (along with race/ethnicity and socio-economic class). Sexism is part of the system of oppression of females on the basis of sex, it’s not something that can be understood primarily through a lens of triggering anguish.
The words aren’t intrinsically sexist, the sexism is in the usage. Calling a poem strident has a different implication than calling a woman strident. Most feminists know the sexist used of the word strident. That you don’t see anything sexist about the word is an indication of your lack of awareness.
Thus, you could have called the post intense and not invoked a sexist trope.
Not really seeing how that’s offensive but accept weka’s advice that it has taken on that quality in some circles (is “circles” okay?)
The sexism isn’t when women take words in a certain manner, it’s when people, usually men, use words in a certain manner.
Again, it’s not about offence taken, or even given, although some people use words to be both sexist and offensive.
The word terf was coined a long time ago by a trans woman. It’s an acronym: trans exclusionary radical feminist. That in and of itself is a relatively neutral albeit somewhat inaccurate descriptor. But since the gender/sex wars of the last decade, it’s been taken up and used by some liberals, trans activists, trans allies (TA), and Men’s Rights Activists, as a term of abuse.
This equating of terf with a woman bigot/nazi/evil doer, was an intentional strategy, widely promoted. It’s also been used to direct violent misogyny at women online, and the TAs and gender identity ideologists have largely sanctioned this. That’s often left wing men, sanctioning online violence against women because they object to the women’s feminist politics
A lot of women reclaimed the word terf, in the same way that black men reclaimed nigger, or gay men reclaimed queer.
Again, the meaning and intend of the usage of the word itself depends on who is using it and how.
There is no consensus on words on TS that I’m aware of. I moderate the word terf as a term of abuse when I see it, but there is no ban on the word itself, which is why today’s use on TS is fine.
You can probably see the same thing with the word nigger. A black man using the term in the rap song is quite different from a KKK member using it a term of abuse towards black people.
"These last three comments from you Robert again speak to your lack of knowledge in the area. It’s kind of like a conventional farmer trying to have a conversation about growing trees without understanding soil microbia."
If your conventional farmer-who-lacked-knowledge-about-soil microbia was discussing trees, I'd regard it as an opportunity to increase her knowledge, for the betterment of all, rather than lambast her for her ignorance. Not saying that's what's happening here, but there's a hint of it in the air…
ok. I’ve seen farmers react to reasonable explanations as if they were being lambasted. Criticism can be hard to take for sure. This is a political blog with an ethos of robust debate. I can change how I communicate more than I already am, but you’d have to give me some clues. I’ve been feeling I have to really spell it out because I’ve observed a fair amount of missing the point from you on this topic. Too blunt?
"Most feminists know the sexist used (sic) of the word strident. "
Do they?
There's certainly no clue in the word itself, as there is with "hysterical".
I guess it's the responsibility of all people who are not feminists, to research words to determine if they are sexist.
"The sexism isn’t when women take words in a certain manner, it’s when people, usually men, use words in a certain manner."
Given I was unaware of the sexist nature of the word, "strident", how can what you say be true? Do you genuinely feel I was intentionally using it in a sexist manner? Or could it be that it was just taken that way?
Molly linked to the piece about Landy and NW, the context of which is women’s rights
You said the person who wrote the piece was “Quite strident in her beliefs”
Molly responded with her thoughts about the use of the word stridency
You said that the letter was “strident as”
I asked you what was wrong with being strident
Instead of answering directly whether there was anything wrong with being strident, you replied with an indirect question “Who said being strident is wrong?”
I then said “perhaps you are unaware that strident is a negative term used about women, especially in politics, to undermine them and their words/actions/mana”. I said this because my guess was that you were unaware of that. And that if you became aware, then you might rethink what you were arguing in a conversation about women’s rights.
You then engaged in a somewhat drawn out conversation about the semantics of the word
I explained at length what the issues are with the word strident, terf, and other words, as well as understanding sexism via a class analysis rather than personal insult.
You implied that there was a hint of me lambasting you for you not being unaware (but you didn’t point to anything specific)
I said ok, what would be better, and also, it’s a robust debate political blog.
You’ve now asked “Given I was unaware of the sexist nature of the word, “strident”, how can what you say be true? Do you genuinely feel I was intentionally using it in a sexist manner?”, despite my having said early on that I suspect you were unaware of the sexist use of term
You also said “Or could it be that it was just taken that way?” despite my having explained at length that sexism is what the person using the word does, it’s not what the woman on the receiving end does.
FWIW, no, I don’t think you used the term in an intentionally sexist way. If you look back you can clearly see that I have not at any time said you were being sexist. What I did was point out that the term has a sexist usage, because I thought you were unaware of that and you might want to be aware of that in a conversation about women’s rights.
If I think someone on TS is being overtly, intentionally sexist, I usually say so up front.
What would be useful right now is if you would clarify if you accept that the term has a sexist history (despite you not knowing that earlier and not having used it that way).
tbh, I struggle with your conversational/debate style sometimes. I didn’t see you acknowledge that the term has a sexist history. Your questioning rhetoric often comes across as questioning the validity of what people are saying. It was strange to me that we spent so much time talking about concepts of political language that I think are common place on TS.
As for batting ideas back and forth, maybe for you this is a lighter issue. For some of us it is incredibly serious. For me personally, GC politics is the most important issue we face after climate/ecology (for complex reasons to do with the suppression of women’s knowledge and way of thinking about climate/ecology, and I don’t think it’s coincidence there are very strong pushes to remove women-centre politics at this time). Although the Treaty issues arising are up there too. Same deal.
Yes, TS is a serious place. There’s fun and different kinds of exchanges as well, but pays to pick the topic I think.
You are welcome to talk about feminist issues, and GC pol doesn't just affect women. But you can't expect other people to talk about it with the fun vibe you seem to want, if they don't want to.
I had some great fun with GC feminists last year, and there were times when it was incredibly serious. I really don't see the problem other than maybe you misreading the room or wanting other people to act in a certain way.
"Men aren't women – even if you squint" is a statement of fact.
No, it's not a fact. "even if you squint" indicates that it's a visual perception issue. That means seeing a man or a woman is the issue. If you squint and see a woman, you see a woman, whether the subject of your attention is or isn't (it might even be a mannequin).
Might "indicate" a perception issue – but still a statement of fact.
However, people have a problem with the concise and accurate three word descriptor – adult human female – so I don't think clarity improves that cognitive issue.
Maybe an example of an individual/group claiming and using a word to 'defang' it?
At the PYO blueberry farm where I pick, ~10 years ago the unpretentious roadside sign "Blueberries, 9 – 2 pm" had been altered to read "Blueberries are Gay".
That’s funny (to me) to this day – perhaps you had to be there.
The footpaths laid down by Labour in the direction of co-governance, the curbing of free speech, and the erasure of biological sex differences were not, however, trod by the masses. Indeed, they appeared to most New Zealanders to be leading them into wild and unknown territory. Not only did they not want to go there, but they became increasingly suspicious of the motives of those who kept insisting that they should.
What the Left still doesn’t seem to have got its head around is that the defeated Labour Party is not the innocent victim of reactionaries…
Labour lost because, after 2020, Jacinda’s political skills deserted her and, following her departure in January 2023, Chris Hipkins and his colleagues were exposed as a pretty hopeless bunch of politicians. What those Labour MPs celebrated as “progressive”, a great many voters considered either loopy, or dangerous, or a volatile mixture of the two.
Hang on, he oughta already know that Labour always blames any semi-plausible scapegoat. Not in their genes to acknowledge their mistakes – still silent, laying low.
Haven't been keeping up with the news (really not very interested in other people's weddings) – but if there are protesters there – they should be ashamed of themselves.
Ummm – I for one am very grateful to our former PM as I had covid nearly 2 years ago which affected my heart, which I gather would have been far worse if I hadn't been vacinated (I continue to keep up to date with my boosters) and take extra care as Covid is back with us with avengeance and quite rampant in our area. Just glad I'm still alive and sort of kicking.
Ardern did a great deed in declaring a lock down or two and protecting the most vulnerable amongst us the best she could have done and that was all anybody could have asked for in that time.
I am grateful that she was there when the first outbreaks were around.
Actually without wanting to use Jacinda's special day, it does take us back to Pats original piece on here about Dame Anne Salmond column. We were united under the initial phase of Covid, "team of 5 millon". Then quickly became divided. What happened?
IMO ideology took over the Govt agenda. I found it alarming the ideas in the He Puapua report, followed up by things like the Rotorua amendment Bill, the gender self ID select committee, where women were raising very valid concerns and were treated with contempt by mostly Labour women MPs. As there was imo no mandate for these policies (gender self Id, trans in women's sports in particular have very poor support in political polls. What are you supposed to do when the govt you have supported are pushing through legislation that they have not campaigned on? This is a geniune question. I think the coalition might be blamed for pushing the division, but actually they were responding to policy being brought in by Labour. Someone said it takes two to tango. But if someone starts something, sometimes the best option is to push back
It's funny, when reading Dame Anne Salmond's article and she spoke of divisions and the need to heal them, I thought of Robert and the attitudes behind cookers, now covidiots.
Just kinda pulling the scab off and having a poke at the wound just for the sake of it.
pushing through legislation that they have not campaigned on
Tbh I didn't really notice they were doing so until quite late. I'm so used to their bumbling style I guess, I did point out quite a few times onsite here that it seemed peculiar they were doing what the media called co-governance without explaining themselves to the public, but it never actually occurred to me that it was cynical.
I did read it as timidity, but that's just usual Labour. I think I may have even given them credit for being progressive about it once or twice. But stealth politics does have an anti-democratic whiff about it. There's a reasonable basis for co-governance, if you view the Treaty as a social contract, so I guess I indulged them on that basis.
The opposition to it also seems reasonable if you see the Treaty as merely history though, and I doubt Dame Anne has explicitly supported Labour's strategy.
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Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
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Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
Te Pāti Māori is disgusted at the confirmation that hundreds are set to lose their jobs at Oranga Tamariki, and the disestablishment of the Treaty Response Unit. “This act of absolute carelessness and out of touch decision making is committing tamariki to state abuse.” Said Te Pāti Māori Oranga Tamariki ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi, and Mema Paremata mō Tāmaki-Makaurau, Takutai Tarsh Kemp, will travel to the Gold Coast to strengthen ties with Māori in Australia next week (15-21 April). The visit, in the lead-up to the 9th Australian National Kapa haka Festival, will be an opportunity for both ...
The Green Party has today launched a step-by-step guide to help New Zealanders make their voice heard on the Government’s democracy dodging and anti-environment fast track legislation. ...
The National Government’s proposed changes to the Residential Tenancies Act will mean tenants can be turfed from their homes by landlords with little notice, Labour housing spokesperson Kieran McAnulty said. ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson is calling on all parties to support a common-sense change that’s great for the planet and great for consumers after her member’s bill was drawn from the ballot today. ...
A significant milestone has been reached in the fight to strike an anti-Pasifika and unfair law from the country’s books after Teanau Tuiono’s members’ bill passed its first reading. ...
New Zealand has today missed the opportunity to uphold the right to a clean, healthy, and sustainable environment, says James Shaw after his member’s bill was voted down in its first reading. ...
Today’s advice from the Climate Change Commission paints a sobering reality of the challenge we face in combating climate change, especially in light of recent Government policy announcements. ...
Minister for Disability Issues Penny Simmonds appears to have delayed a report back to Cabinet on the progress New Zealand is making against international obligations for disabled New Zealanders. ...
Hundreds of New Zealand families affected by Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD) will benefit from a new Government focus on prevention and treatment, says Health Minister Dr Shane Reti. “We know FASD is a leading cause of preventable intellectual and neurodevelopmental disability in New Zealand,” Dr Reti says. “Every day, ...
Regional Development Minister Shane Jones today attended the official opening of Kaikohe’s new $14.7 million sports complex. “The completion of the Kaikohe Multi Sports Complex is a fantastic achievement for the Far North,” Mr Jones says. “This facility not only fulfils a long-held dream for local athletes, but also creates ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters’ engagements in Türkiye this week underlined the importance of diplomacy to meet growing global challenges. “Returning to the Gallipoli Peninsula to represent New Zealand at Anzac commemorations was a sombre reminder of the critical importance of diplomacy for de-escalating conflicts and easing tensions,” Mr Peters ...
Ambassador Millar, Burgemeester, Vandepitte, Excellencies, military representatives, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen – good morning and welcome to this sacred Anzac Day dawn service. It is an honour to be here on behalf of the Government and people of New Zealand at Buttes New British Cemetery, Polygon Wood – a deeply ...
Distinguished guests - It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders. Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia. Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
Overseas models for regulating the oil and gas sector, including their decommissioning regimes, are being carefully scrutinised as a potential template for New Zealand’s own sector, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. The Coalition Government is focused on rebuilding investor confidence in New Zealand’s energy sector as it looks to strengthen ...
Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell has today released the Report of the Government Inquiry into the response to the North Island Severe Weather Events. “The report shows that New Zealand’s emergency management system is not fit-for-purpose and there are some significant gaps we need to address,” Mr Mitchell ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith is today travelling to Europe where he’ll update the United Nations Human Rights Council on the Government’s work to restore law and order. “Attending the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva provides us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while ...
Associate Agriculture Minister, Mark Patterson, formally reopened the world’s largest wool processing facility today in Awatoto, Napier, following a $50 million rebuild and refurbishment project. “The reopening of this facility will significantly lift the economic opportunities available to New Zealand’s wool sector, which already accounts for 20 per cent of ...
Hon Andrew Bayly, Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing At the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective (SOREC) Summit, 18 April, Dunedin Ngā mihi nui, Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Ko Whanganui aho Good Afternoon and thank you for inviting me to open your summit today. I am delighted ...
The Government is delivering on its commitment to bring back the Three Strikes legislation, Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee announced today. “Our Government is committed to restoring law and order and enforcing appropriate consequences on criminals. We are making it clear that repeat serious violent or sexual offending is not ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has today announced four new diplomatic appointments for New Zealand’s overseas missions. “Our diplomats have a vital role in maintaining and protecting New Zealand’s interests around the world,” Mr Peters says. “I am pleased to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the ...
New Zealand is contributing NZ$7 million to support communities affected by severe food insecurity and other urgent humanitarian needs in Ethiopia and Somalia, Foreign Minister Rt Hon Winston Peters announced today. “Over 21 million people are in need of humanitarian assistance across Ethiopia, with a further 6.9 million people ...
Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Paul Goldsmith is congratulating Mataaho Collective for winning the Golden Lion for best participant in the main exhibition at the Venice Biennale. "Congratulations to the Mataaho Collective for winning one of the world's most prestigious art prizes at the Venice Biennale. “It is good ...
The Government is reforming financial services to improve access to home loans and other lending, and strengthen customer protections, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly and Housing Minister Chris Bishop announced today. “Our coalition Government is committed to rebuilding the economy and making life simpler by cutting red tape. We are ...
“China remains a strong commercial opportunity for Kiwi exporters as Chinese businesses and consumers continue to value our high-quality safe produce,” Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay says. Mr McClay has returned to New Zealand following visits to Beijing, Harbin and Shanghai where he met ministers, governors and mayors and engaged in trade and agricultural events with the New ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has completed a successful trip to Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines, deepening relationships and capitalising on opportunities. Mr Luxon was accompanied by a business delegation and says the choice of countries represents the priority the New Zealand Government places on South East Asia, and our relationships in ...
New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
The Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. “Recently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister David Jonathan Boldt as a Judge of the High Court, and the Honourable Justice Matthew Palmer as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Boldt graduated with an LLB from Victoria University of Wellington in 1990, and also holds ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa. The summit is co-hosted ...
A stopbank upgrade project in Tairawhiti partly funded by the Government has increased flood resilience for around 7000ha of residential and horticultural land so far, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones today attended a dawn service in Gisborne to mark the end of the first stage of the ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters will represent the Government at Anzac Day commemorations on the Gallipoli Peninsula next week and engage with senior representatives of the Turkish government in Istanbul. “The Gallipoli campaign is a defining event in our history. It will be a privilege to share the occasion ...
Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr. The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners. “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
Today’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...
Asia Pacific Report From France to Australia, university pro-Palestine protests in the United States have now spread to several countries with students pitching on-campus camps. And students at Columbia and other US universities remain defiant as campuses have witnessed the biggest protests since the anti-Vietnam war and anti-apartheid eras in ...
Analysis by Dr Bryce Edwards, Democracy Project (https://democracyproject.nz)New Zealand Government’s Fast Track legislation. Many criticisms are being made of the Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill, including by this writer. But as with everything in politics, every story has two sides, and both deserve attention. It’s important to understand what the Government ...
Tara Ward talks to presenter Naomi Toilalo about the new TV show that turns food waste into a three course feast. Naomi Toilalo is standing in the warehouse at Good Neighbour Tauranga, helping unpack the two-and-a-half tonnes of rejected food that will arrive at the community support hub that day. ...
Scout is our latest Dog of the Month. This feature was offered as a reward during our What’s Eating Aotearoa PledgeMe campaign. Thank you to Scout’s human, Avril, for her support. Dog name: Scout (named after the little girl in To Kill a Mockingbird – she inherited the independent spirit ...
Megan Alatini takes us through her life in TV, including ‘terrible’ daytime TV, the class of Carol Hirschfeld and her most embarrassing TrueBliss moment. When she responded to a vague newspaper ad asking “do you have what it takes to be a popstar?” 25 years ago, Megan Alatini never guessed ...
A new exhibition in Wellington showcases the faces behind your local goods and services. Back in 1977, when I was a fine arts student at the University of Canterbury, I took a series of photographs of Christchurch shopkeepers. The photos were for a calendar – a project for my end ...
Toomaj and his resistance to tyranny through his songs have become an icon for the youth of Iran, so his sentence has hit the nation hard. Toomaj Salehi is not the first artist to pay the price for standing with the people. ...
My cousin Dylan and I spotted these big eels under the bridge that summer. We watched them lounging under the dark weed, facing into the flow of water, their mouths frozen open. Dylan and I couldn’t stop thinking about those eels. The night we went down to the creek, we ...
Newsroom, home of satire. My long-running weekly satirical series The Secret Diary has moved to Newsroom and will appear every Saturday, with Victor Billot’s wildly popular satirical Odes continuing to appear every Sunday. Diaries, Odes – while serious political columnists toil at meaningful opinions and stroke their chins to an ...
Tara Ward unravels the many nuanced layers of a cartoon about talking dogs.This is an excerpt from our weekly pop culture newsletter Rec Room. Sign up here. It’s not often an episode of a children’s cartoon has adults sobbing into their sleeves, but that’s exactly what happened this week when ...
Working as a doctor in developing countries to help communities achieve better health outcomes is nothing short of a life goal for Jessica Tater. The University of Otago medical student has her sights firmly set on joining the international humanitarian organisation Doctors Without Borders/Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) when she qualifies ...
There’s an island in the far reaches of Auckland’s territory, sitting off the tip of the Coromandel Peninsula, 30 minutes by air from the city or four hours on the slow boat. Aotea Great Barrier is off-grid, it has a population of fewer than a thousand people … and most ...
Asia Pacific Report An Australian author and advocate, Jim Aubrey, today led a national symbolic one minute’s silence to mark the “blood debt” owed to Papuan allies during the Second World War indigenous resistance against the invading Japanese forces. “A promise to most people is a promise,” Aubrey said in ...
Asia Pacific Report The Freedom Flotilla is ready to sail to Gaza, reports Kia Ora Gaza. All the required paperwork has been submitted to the port authority, and the cargo has been loaded and prepared for the humanitarian trip to the besieged enclave. However, organisers received word of an “administrative ...
Pacific Media Watch Palestine solidarity protesters today demonstrated at the Auckland headquarters of Television New Zealand, accusing the country’s major TV network of broadcasting “propaganda” backing Israel’s genocidal war on Gaza. About 50 protesters targeted the main entrance to the TVNZ building near Sky Tower and also picketed a side ...
Opinion by Lynley Hood. Forty years on from my 1985 Fulbright Grant, my disquiet over the war in Gaza evoked some troubling questions. The answer to my first question – What is the primary purpose of the Fulbright Programme? – was on the Fulbright NZ website. It says: US Senator, ...
The ministers responsible for green-lighting major projects need to be open about potential conflicts of interest, says Transparency International. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Anastasia Powell, Professor, Family and Sexual Violence, RMIT University It has been a particularly distressing start to the year. There is little that can ease the current grief of individuals, families and communities who have needlessly lost a loved one to men’s ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Gregory Moore, Senior Research Associate, School of Ecosystem and Forest Sciences, The University of Melbourne Lichen, the first described example of symbiosis.AdeJ Artventure/Shutterstock Once known only to those studying biology, the word symbiosis is now widely used. Symbiosis is the intimate ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kim Hemsley, Head, Childhood Dementia Research Group, Flinders Health and Medical Research Institute, College of Medicine and Public Health, Flinders University Olena Ivanova/Shutterstock “Childhood” and “dementia” are two words we wish we didn’t have to use together. But sadly, around 1,400 ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Whiteford, Professor, Crawford School of Public Policy, Australian National University The government’s Economic Inclusion Advisory Committee has just published its second report. It was set up by Treasurer Jim Chalmers and Minister for Social Services Amanda Rishworth in 2022 to provide: ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adrian Beaumont, Election Analyst (Psephologist) at The Conversation; and Honorary Associate, School of Mathematics and Statistics, The University of Melbourne The Queensland state election will be held in October. A YouGov poll for The Courier Mail, conducted April 9–17 from a sample ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Amin Naeni, PhD candidate at Alfred Deakin Institute for Citizenship and Globalisation, Deakin University There’s been much talk in recent months about what a possible second Donald Trump presidency in the United States could mean for Europe, Russia’s war in Ukraine, the ...
A brief round-up of submissions on the controversial proposed law. This is an excerpt from our weekly environmental newsletter Future Proof. Sign up here. Last week, submissions on the controversial Fast-track Approvals Bill closed just hours after the government released a list of stakeholder organisations who were sent letters advising how they could ...
A poem from Robin Peace’s new collection Detritus of Empire: feather / grass / rock. Cereal giving I see a woman’s hands, see her curious hands break a stalk as she walks through the tall prairie, the savannah, the steppe, wherever it was. See her idly bite the grass that ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1 Hemingway’s Goblet by Dermot Ross (Mary Egan Publishing, $38)A handsomely produced (debossed cover, lovely ...
The Commissioner's decision validates the longstanding efforts of the local community and ensures that Awataha Marae will be managed to serve the needs of the local community, particularly for hosting tangihanga. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tristan Salles, Associate professor, University of Sydney Examples of Australian landscapes.Unsplash Seventy thousand years ago, the sea level was much lower than today. Australia, along with New Guinea and Tasmania, formed a connected landmass known as Sahul. Around this time – ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Felicity Castagna, Lecturer, Creative Writing, Western Sydney University Day Day Market, ParramattaPhoto: Garry Trinh I live on the edge of Parramatta, Australia’s fastest-growing city, on the kind of old-fashioned suburban street that has 1950s fibros constructed in the post-war housing boom, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michael Ryan, Teaching Fellow in Economics, University of Waikato GettyImagesfatido/Getty Images There is an ongoing global debate over whether the high inflation seen in the aftermath of the COVID-19 pandemic can be lowered without a recession. New Zealand is not ...
The ‘Wicked Game’ heartthrob is in his late 60s now. That didn’t stop him putting on a lively, goofy and very sparkly show. Apart from ‘Wicked Game’, which graces a sultry playlist of mine simply called 💋, my last sustained Chris Isaak listening session took place when I was about ...
Analysis - Two ministers were stripped of portfolios in a warning to Cabinet, drama broke out at the Waitangi Tribunal, and the gang patch ban bill ran into opposition. ...
Tara Ward makes an impassioned plea for some vital pop culture merch. In April 1999, I became obsessed with a new reality television show called Popstars. Every Tuesday night, five strangers transformed into music royalty before my very eyes as Joe, Keri, Carly, Erika and Megan were chosen to form ...
PNG Post-Courier In the early hours of ANZAC Day, aerial photographs captured an impressive gathering of Australians and Papua New Guineans at Isurava in the Northern (Oro) Province. The solemn dawn service yesterday was held at a site steeped in history, where some of the fiercest battles of World War ...
The PSA is shocked that Oranga Tamariki has used the cost cutting drive to downgrade its commitment to Te Ao Māori and remove many specialist Māori roles. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ian Kemish, Adjunct Professor, School of Historical and Philosophical Inquiry, The University of Queensland There can be no more powerful symbol of the relationship between Australia and Papua New Guinea than the prime ministers of these neighbouring countries walking together on the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sharon Robinson, Distinguished Professor and Deputy Director of ARC Securing Antarctica’s Environmental Future (SAEF), University of Wollongong, University of Wollongong Andrew Netherwood Over the last 25 years, the ozone hole which forming over Antarctica each spring has started to shrink. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Viktoria Kahui, Senior Lecturer in Environmental Economics, University of Otago Getty Images/Amy Toensing Biodiversity is declining at rates unprecedented in human history. This suggests the ways we currently use to manage our natural environment are failing. One emerging concept focuses on ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Timothy Colin Bednall, Associate Professor in Management, Swinburne University of Technology marvent/Shutterstock Finding the best person to fill a position can be tough, from drafting a job ad to producing a shortlist of top interview candidates. Employers typically consider information from ...
Wondering where to host your next BYO? Whether its a small gathering or a massive party, we’ve got some recommendations. I was first introduced to the concept of BYOs at Dunedin’s India Gardens, a legendary but sadly defunct establishment, which purveyed enormous quantities of mango chicken to Aotearoa’s drunkest future ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Julien Cooper, Honorary Lecturer, Department of History and Archaeology, Macquarie University Julien Cooper The hyper-arid desert of Eastern Sudan, the Atbai Desert, seems like an unlikely place to find evidence of ancient cattle herders. But in this dry environment, my new ...
The sector says it’s hopeful her replacement Paul Goldsmith will be able to throw it a lifeline, after six months with a minister deemed missing in action, writes Catherine McGregor in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign ...
The government can't just rely on axing public sector jobs and has to do more to cut spending, says the chief economist at a free market think tank. ...
Rock The Vote NZ, known for its advocacy for minor party unity and its role within the Freedoms NZ Coalition during the 2023 General Election, celebrates this merger as a strategic enhancement of its operational strength and outreach. ...
Nearly everyone has experienced the frustration of something you use breaking and being difficult or expensive to fix. Proposed legislation could change that. It’s been raining on and off all Sunday afternoon but people are lining up outside a building in a corner of Gribblehirst Park in Sandringham, Auckland. In ...
What does a forever relationship look like when you don’t believe in marriage? And how do you celebrate it? This essay is part of our Sunday Essay series, made possible thanks to the support of Creative New Zealand.I’m going to do it, right now. I’m going to say ...
It’s not that long ago Eliza McCartney was seriously wondering if the Paris Olympics would be her pole vaulting swansong. After years of being hounded by injury after injury, the Rio Olympics bronze medallist was still confident she would compete at her second Olympics in Paris in July, unless something ...
FICTION 1 Take Two by Danielle Hawkins (Allen & Unwin, $36.99) There’s commercial fiction, like this book, and then there’s quality fiction, quality writers, quality literature; the forthcoming Auckland Writers Festival is full of quality, and ReadingRoom has two tickets to give away to the following events: Paul Lynch (Dublin ...
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You can’t have missed the Gallipoli story as the movies, documentaries, essays and books capture what it was like for New Zealand troops in their eight-month campaign on the Peninsula. But this Anzac Day the Auckland War Memorial Museum has published a book that sheds light on a little-known aspect of the ...
The Prime Minister has committed to resuming direct flights to Thailand. But it’s not a promise he will be able to deliver on anytime soon. The post Prime Minister jumps the gun in Thailand appeared first on Newsroom. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra In the free-for-all between the Australian government and Big Tech boss Elon Musk this week, the government had to be on a winner. Most people would have little sympathy with Musk’s vociferous opposition to ...
It takes two to tango
Cui bono?
And who dosnt?
Dame Anne Salmond imparts some well founded fears.
https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/01/13/dame-anne-salmond-how-to-split-a-society/
A valid concern for sure, but I suspect alarmism works better when made more specific: generalities wash over readers, giving them no more than a vague sense of something wrong somewhere.
Ordinary citizens have never been astute. Nor can one blame them for being sheeple. It's innate human nature creating masses & driving democracy. Dame Anne fingers the causal agency: self-interested elites. Yet social norms produce these groups. They are a functional part of the body politic, since forever. A social reformer would have to specify a technical improvement to the design of democracy to eliminate the problem. Liberals merely complain & expect someone else to do something about it. Not fair to put her in that category though:
More centrism is indeed a viable antidote to polarising forces. Re engagement inclusion, it just requires us to be radical enough to actually make it happen rather than just want it to (the classic liberal limp wrist). Re citizen's assemblies, you bet. A centrist organiser ought to make these happen asap: https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/505616/how-citizens-assemblies-could-resolve-new-zealand-s-toughest-debates
Could be we're in a weather lull before another winter of discontent. Would make sense for some enterprising politician to demonstrate leadership, recruit a few relevant professors to co-design a collaborative public assembly. Would also need professional organisers to incorporate suitable guidelines & conditions to manage group process productively – sideline fringe nutters & screwballs who disrespect rules. https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/01/13/dame-anne-salmond-how-to-split-a-society/
You are of the opinion that Dame Anne is an alarmist?
That the problem can only be solved by politicians , professional organisers and professors? (the very groups that have led us here)
That the current situation is a lull?
Thats one take I guess.
Pragmatic folk will just wait to see what kind of shit emanates from the new govt & how much of each kind. However I share your cynicism re centrist do-gooders.
I don't see her alarmism as unworthy – I prefer better direction. Perpetuating malaise is poor public service so we need a proactive stance. Call me naive but I do have faith in the wisdom of the crowd. Just needs to be catalysed…
"Call me naive but I do have faith in the wisdom of the crowd." 13 January 2024 at 11:06 am
and yet
"Ordinary citizens have never been astute. Nor can one blame them for being sheeple." 13 January 2024 at 8:43 am
Maybe its 2 takes
Yeah, I agree that it's a self-contradictory look. Complementarity can be like that sometimes.
It can?…not in the world I inhabit.
mod note. I will reinstate your comment when you supply a link.
https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/01/13/dame-anne-salmond-how-to-split-a-society/
Identity politics seeks to divide us based on race, ethnicity, sexual orientation etc.
One issue I would disagree with AS about is the coalition and women. Peters made part of his election campaign protecting women's spaces , eg public bathrooms and change rooms, while providing alternatives for transgender people. He also got across the line the protection of the women's sports category.
Opps disregard this. I didn't think it had posted. I re-read AS and she mentions the women's ministry, not women.
Unfortunately Anker, rational thought is the first thing to disappear when the pressure goes on,,,and there is no doubt the pressure is on…as AS noted with her experience in Bosnia.
How the world works is complicated enough without adding the stressor of increasingly restricted resources….it makes for bad decision making and easy (and erroneous) targets….weve had both of late.
Green capitalism is making a big stink: https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/01/11/the-town-thats-had-a-gutsful-of-nzs-biggest-worm-farm/
When worthy Green enterprises make locals want to throw up, we got a problem needing a solution.
Blame the Labour/Green govt for slack law-making? The report gives us no apparent basis for doing so – seems like Sir Geoffrey's old RMA did it, but don't blame him. That prescription designed in compliance methodology…
No Enforcement Commissar?? The problem's been happening long enough:
The enforcement is through the Environment Court. However, as it is expensive to take such cases, Councils will only use the Ratepayers $$$$$ to do it as a last resort.
Quite clever neolib design, eh? Polarise locals against local authorities. Escalate hostility on purpose so as to breed subversive ethos amongst sheeple. I could almost applaud the sleight of hand, if yawning weren't a better option…
Here is a taste of the "democratic" Ukraine state defended by the West so vigorously….
American Journalist Gonzalo Lira Has Died While Imprisoned In Ukraine
"Lira’s father, Gonzalo Lira Sr., provided a statement on his son’s death to The Grayzone, saying, “I cannot accept the way my son has died. He was tortured, extorted, and incommunicado for 8 months and 11 days, and the US Embassy did nothing to help my son"
…defended by the West….
In fact, Adrian, "the West" (i.e. Washington and London) are not defending Ukraine at all, they're supplying them with arms and insisting they keep sacrificing young men in this doomed proxy war. Zelensky was about to sue for peace in March 2022; that democratic champion Boris Johnson was despatched to Kiev to browbeat him out of such foolish behaviour.
The rest is blood-stained, and U.S./U.K.-funded, history.
Only russian propaganda sources make such claims about a March-April 2022 peace deal.
The Ukrainian side says that the discovery of mass russian war crimes against civilians in occupied territories made all negotiations null and void.
The Ukrainians know that abandoning your citizens to russian torturers and murderers is immoral, and such peace deals only give russia time to prepare for their next invasion.
That's a nice simple explanation for everything: Russian propaganda. That explains everything, of course.
Why did Boris Johnson fly post-haste to Kiev again?
Neftali Beneth ex Israeli prime minister literally started saying that about the peace deal in which he was a mediator…
Trump card to be played: "This All-American Hero died because Biden refused to help him. I would have sent a squad in to rescue, told the clown it was a goer & dared him to get in the way. Rambo 1.01!
But what the hell was this guy meant to be doing in there anyway?? Being pro-Russian makes him seem a fool in the wrong place, but maybe there's more to it.
"But what the hell was this guy meant to be doing in there anyway??"…oh I don't know…being a war reporter in a supposed western backed democracy…..but then as we know, the West have no interest in democracies…and Ukraine sure as hell isn't one.
Ukraine has free and open elections, with vigorous opposition and a free press. Zelenskyy and other government officials are widely criticised and discussed in the Ukrainian media. Ukraine has changed government and president at almost every election since they left the USSR.
Russia on the other hand imprisons, outlaws or murders all political opponents, imprisons people for 7 years for writing "no war" on supermarket labels, and has the one tsar returning again and again after every presidential election….There is no free media whatsoever tolerated within russia.
Who or what is your imaginary “the West”? Is New Zealand [in] it? Are we, as Kiwis, [in] it? Didn’t we just have a General Election?
Do you intend to continue making these dumbfuckery claims here on this site? BTW, that’s a rhetorical question.
Draw your own conclusions about what coach red pill was doing in Ukraine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyR5a5lFP9w
So a stroppy bugger…
Having myself attempted fair & balanced stances accompanied by wild claims I'm tempted to sympathise. No reason to off him but looks like locals weren't inclined to tolerate his input.
Pneumonia, a collapsed lung and edema.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDqMkpHWAAAAFxa?format=jpg&name=large
Good sleuthing, poor fella, looks like his body decided to do time out…
Rather a gross generalisation. Might have to pursue the search diligently awhile, but I'm confident one could eventually identify a few exceptions to that rule!
Like who, Dennis? Name one "journalist" at the BBC or the New York Times or CNN or Radio New Zealand that is an exception to that rule.
I can name one: Phil Pennington at RNZ. The rest are mere stenographers at best, and (in the case of the failing New York Times and CNN) shills for genocide.
Hmm. I suspect you have in mind those who cover international stories while my comment was general. Re RNZ, there's insufficient persona attached to the names to impact upon me, so I can only cite the general impression I get – that they try diligently to cover the public interest aspects to any story & mostly do a reasonable job.
Ever since its website put a tabloid front up I haven't taken the BBC seriously enough to focus on any of their crew & likewise the US news media although I did like Matt Taibbi's style a few years back (vampire squid on Wall St). A few who started in the TVNZ newsroom when I was there are exceptions – Simon Mercep, for instance, always had the right attitude & instincts. At TV3 Gower did ok & some others too…
Fair comment, Dennis, as always!
Thanks, I'm okay with getting my resilience tested. Have been feeling my age noticeably more in recent years. Your question was worthwhile. I'm always interested in the interplay between a journo's professionalism & conscience. When a formula political story is the day's task, hewing to conventional diagnosis is the norm which tests the character of the pro: to clone or not to clone, that is the question…
Some background.
Nick Korero's latest epistle:
https://nickrockel.substack.com/p/congrats-jacinda-and-clarke
It's in the sidebar but worth emphasising due to subject matter – plus his usual humour. I used to know 'the scarecrow' well. I doubt she will mind coming from Nick Korero. Its not Jacinda btw.
I agree with his analysis of the Herald newspaper. They are sinking into the gutter.
I also knew "the scarecrow". Not well, but well enough to stay away from.
Never quite made her out.
Yesterday on the Democracy Project:
Yet the employer, discriminating against the elderly consumer, tacitly concedes that right to the offensive employee. Perhaps trans nazi would be ott?
As for Luxon failing the Trotter populism test, I imagine his reaction: "Culture war in Otaki, eh? Bit of a laugh, what? Not me mate, I'm in holiday mode. No old boomer needs me mouthing off on their behalf. Call in Age Concern or something."
https://democracyproject.substack.com/p/nz-politics-daily-12-january-2024
Plainsight have got an article written by someone close to the customer, which is not paywalled:
https://plainsight.nz/jaccuse-new-world-otaki-vs-phillippa-landy-from-a-friend/
Jeez, talk about in-depth!! Great to see such passionate advocacy but too much for me at the moment (busy) so I just did a scan. I got a sense of activist solidarity which was heartening…
it's badly done activism. If they wanted to do this well, take someone to film it or at least take notes in real time and observe what is happening.
Reading the letter from the NW owner, she didn't get banned for the Tshirt, she got banned for expressing her views to staff (multiple) at different times (multiple). On TS we call that a pattern of behaviour, and it's one of the main reasons we moderate.
To me it looks like Landy was flaming. She was acting in specific ways designed to provoke a reaction. She got one and didn't like it and is now trying to make political capital out of it.
So sure, freedom of expression. But it's possible and likely she crossed over a line into harassment, in which case the owner was within their rights to ban her. That she gave him the excuse to do so is on her. If she had been banned instead for simply wearing a GC t-shirt, now that would have been useful activism.
But we don't really know what happened so unless this goes to court and/or there is CCTV footage released, there's not really any good way to judge.
What I can comment on is that No Debate by liberals and the left mean that GC action in NZ is currently largely done by people that have no commitment to the left or progressive politics. Those people aren't going to to away, but they don't appear to give a shit about the wellbeing of trans people. Own goal from the liberal left.
I did wonder at how she managed the group resonance interface & I suspect your analysis is accurate. As someone often inclined toward passionate advocacy on the past with only a moderate capacity for tolerating different views, I had quite an experiential learning curve – had no real clue about the power of context in those earlier decades. However we all must learn from our activist experiences so I hope she's doing that…
It's interesting you assume it was activism, rather than someone wearing a t-shirt.
It's also of interest that you take the ambiguous statement from New World at face value.
If that is the case, then your interpretation will be unlikely to change.
The possibility that the store employee harassed the customer, with support from the manager is also a possibility. One that would be confirmed or dismissed by release of the CCTV.
Just a good woman, wearing a good t-shirt, for a good cause, eh, Molly.
Do you wear your heart (views) on your sleeve (t shirt) Robert?…and should you do so, would you object to being targeted because so?
I have a "Tree Hugger" t-shirt, Pat; I wear it rarely but when I do, I hope for feedback.
🙂
Let us hope your local supermarket isnt owned by a logger…with attitude.
Few supermarkets are, in my experience.
Safe to wear my "Kermit" t-shirt in there as well, I reckon. Probably get a laugh.
You never know Robert…your Kermit T shirt may have you trespassed.
Though one would hope not, but in the current environment who could say.
WitchB…tchSl.tTerfWoman.
This on a tee shirt (and I own one) is what I call good activism.
Weka called it well:
"Reading the letter from the NW owner, she didn't get banned for the Tshirt, she got banned for expressing her views to staff (multiple) at different times (multiple). On TS we call that a pattern of behaviour,"
And yet in the post by Molly that sequence of events is disputed….who is correct?…the jounalist or the (close) friend?…it is apparent that pre existing 'beliefs' determine who is to be believed.
My experience of journalism is it is never entirely accurate, sometimes negligently so.
I believe it was "pattern of behaviour", not "t-shirt".
An 'asserted' pattern of behaviour…unverified and disputed.
Of course the woman may have worn the t Shirt on more than one occasion…to her shame.
Obviously she is not a supporter of fast fashion and believes in wearing clothing to its maximum so as not to needlessly trash the environment nor unnecessarily exploit those who produce the garments.
I wear my favourite one as a form of activism. It's the "woman, adult human female" one and I get plenty of positive feedback, nothing negative so far.
You mean, "Woman: adult human, female", right?
Is is your t-shirt a grammar-fail?
(My correction may be also: grammar’s a b*tch sometimes 🙂
I was just describing it roughly – it actually says:
woman
women (with weird characters that I can't replicate here)
noun
adult human female
It's been the subject of an ASA ruling in the form of a billboard – https://cdn.asa.co.nz/backend/documents/2021/08/10/21378.pdf
While many would prefer "adult female human", making female the subject of the description works as well. The "adult" and "human" become adjectives. Even more clunkily, female human adult would work.
Despite your personal grammatical and lyrical preference, the three interchanging adjectives and subjects provide an accurate and complete definition for woman however they are applied:
Adult – post-puberty (we'll ignore a previous very strange conversation we've had in the past);
Female – sex that produces the large gamete for reproduction purposes;
Human – member of the Homo sapien species.
Yes, like with Golriz, we need to see the video fortage to know what happened before we can be absolutely certain.
If good activism involves getting publicity, then wearing the tee shirt has worked.
I posted below my favourite tee shirt but for those who missed it…
WitchB..tchSl.tTerfWoman.
I have had great feedback when I wear it. Its targeting the mysogyny of the term Terf
the tshirt isn't the problem. Although personally I think it's unnecessarily flaming as opposed to something like Adult Human Female, or your one. There's a difference between making statements about our rights as women, and going hard against trans women in the context of transphobia.
Yeah, but there are prices to pay as well. Publicity in and of itself isn't inherently good. I don't particularly blame women for how this is playing out, because our backs have been against the wall. But that doesn't mean there aren't better ways to approach this.
"There's a difference between making statements about our rights as women, and going hard against trans women in the context of transphobia."
Going hard? Transphobia?
And can we have your definition of "transphobia"? Because I am loathe to point out your use of it seems to follow the usual practice of throwing it out in order to smear or derail discussion. I would like to have your definition before making up my mind.
"Publicity in and of itself isn't inherently good. I don't particularly blame women for how this is playing out, because our backs have been against the wall. But that doesn't mean there aren't better ways to approach this."
A woman has been excluded – without provision of evidence of behaviour – from a local foodstore in a small(ish) community. The discussion is whether the response was appropriate, and whether the wearing of such apparel is permitted.
sounds like you are making fair few assumptions yourself (including about my position and views).
I am def doubtful that the tshirt alone was the issue. From having read a number of accounts now it sounds to me like she has been into that store and engaged with that particular staff member a number of times. Her own account is that heated words were exchanged. If you want to wear a tshirt like that and engage with people that the tshirt is designed to confront, then expect situations like this to happen. It's human nature and politics /shrug.
I also agree it's likely that the staff harassed the customer. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
And I agree it's not necessarily activism, although wearing that tshirt in that store is def a political act. I was responding to Dennis' comment, but also watching how it's playing out since, which looks like activism to me. I just think there are problems with doing activism this way. It reminds me of the UK where this kind of activism ends up being what happens because of No Debate. It's effective in its way, but it create problems too.
" …am def doubtful that the tshirt alone was the issue. From having read a number of accounts now it sounds to me like she has been into that store and engaged with that particular staff member a number of times."
… So far, I have read the email from Matthew Mullins as referencing the store's explanation, and the article I have posted which are close to the original sources along with third-party articles in stuff etc.
What other accounts are you referencing?
It is – given that New World is the local store – very likely that she has been into that store and engaged with that particular staff member a number of times. That's commonplace for local customers.
What you imply is that she has deliberately antagonised a staff member without provocation. That is not implicitly claimed, or been proven.
'And I agree it's not necessarily activism, although wearing that tshirt in that store is def a political act."
Buying the t-shirt – if often a political act – as it often supports the organisation that supplies it.
Wearing it, cannot be assumed to be so. And even if it is – it is not an offensive act.
“If you want to wear a tshirt like that and engage with people that the tshirt is designed to confront, then expect situations like this to happen. It’s human nature and politics /shrug.”
A T-shirt “like that”? I’m shaking my head at this comment, weka.
"Buying the
t-shirtMAGA hat is often a political act – as it often supports the organisation that supplies it.Wearing it, cannot be assumed to be so. And even if it is – it is not an offensive act."
fify
Robert, you "fixed it for you" …
Resorting to implying Trump adjacent perspectives, by the action of wearing a t-shirt.
All good. As long as you gain some satisfaction from this type of comment, why would I want to change you?
But it is unlikely that I will admire you for it, or choose to engage very often.
I'm sure you'll live.
[please stop with the negative personalised comments. They’re unnecessary, and last time there was a major flame war that led to someone being banned. Stick to the politics, thanks – weka]
mod note.
Read your note.
thanks Molly.
"Resorting to implying Trump adjacent perspectives, by the action of wearing a t-shirt."
You've made a wrong assumption, Molly. I made no implication.
@Robert Guyton
Then – did you have a salient point that relates to the conversation?
Molly wrote:
"Then – did you have a salient point that relates to the conversation?"
Well, yes, I did. To borrow (and adjust slightly) weka's words:
“If you want to wear a hat like that and engage with people that the hat is designed to confront, then expect situations like this to happen. It’s human nature and politics /shrug.”
If Luxon was to wear a MAGA hat (in public – he can do what he wants at home) then your comment,
"Buying the t-shirt – if often a political act – as it often supports the organisation that supplies it.
Wearing it, cannot be assumed to be so. And even if it is – it is not an offensive act." (emphasis mine) sounds wrong, imo.
My experience is that there are some very active GC women who are committed to the left, in fact many of the gains made by SUFW have been made by these women. The HC judgement Whitmore vs the Palmerston North CC and section 79(2) in the BDMRR Act 2021 spring to mind. These women do not wish transgender people any harm at all, they just don't believe that it is possible to change sex.
There are certainly some loud voices coming from the right in terms of GC women and I agree that many of these people do not care about trans people or gay people.
Yep. This is the liberal left's own goal. Had GCFs been allowed our voices, we'd be doing it differently.
"There are certainly some loud voices coming from the right in terms of GC women and I agree that many of these people do not care about trans people or gay people."
This is an interesting comment.
Are you suggesting this particular woman is right-wing, and does not care for those with gender identities or gay people?
Or do you have some other NZ GC women in mind? Can you provide their names?
Kellie Jay Keen is the exemplar of someone who is right wing and who communicates in such a way as to imply contempt for trans women.
I'm not going to name NZ GC women because I think the KJK example suffices to get the point, and because I'm not interested in making this personal.
Do you dispute that some gender critical women are homophobic and/or dislike trans women?
I can't think of a right wing gender critical woman in NZ that is homophobic.
I don't believe KJK has expressed homophobic views – OR – any particularly politically right economic perspectives.
The varying understandings of the words "gender critical", "transphobic" and "right-wing" lead to communication difficulties, so I try to avoid them, and only use them now to query the intent of the user so that conversation can move forward.
"Do you dispute that some gender critical women are homophobic and/or dislike trans women?"
That would be a strange position to take, given the undefined group of women who may be called – or refer to themselves – as gender critical. Given the number, I'm sure there are women in there who are guilty of the most heinous crimes, and those that kick dogs. But I haven't been exposed to the homophobia, and I follow a lot of women's rights accounts.
As for the "dislike of trans women"… IF you are aware of the harms of gender ideology, then the tolerance level for men who call themselves women does often diminish.
Given the move away from the already vague DSM-5 diagnosis (https://twitter.com/KnownHeretic/status/1724448571787972885) , the relevance of sex based differences in motivation, intention and impact becomes more important. The likelihood of paraphilias is much higher for men as a motivator, and some women recognise this more than others – whether gender critical or not.
So, I would agree that some women are dismissive of men who call themselves women. I have heard it expressed as akin to people (of all colours) objecting to blackface. It is the idea of blackface that is rejected. Also, when individuals are mentioned, it is usually in reference to a perspective they have expressed, or a boundary violation that has been made. Unfortunately, this is part of the wider discussion and has to be addressed, otherwise we participate in a lesser form of No Debate.
"I have heard it expressed as akin to people (of all colours) objecting to blackface."
That's ridiculous.
People who wear blackface don't yearn to be black, devote their lives to behaving as a "black person", undergo surgery to align physically with a black person, wear their blackface day in and day out, commit to political and social activism to establish credibility as a black person and so on.
The only universal experience of women – is inhabiting a female body.
"People who wear blackface don't yearn to be black, devote their lives to behaving as a "black person", undergo surgery to align physically with a black person, wear their blackface day in and day out, commit to political and social activism to establish credibility as a black person and so on."
All this is selection of regressive stereotypes, and secondary sex characteristics and ASSUMING this is the fundamental aspect of women.
Which is incorrect.
The politicial and social activism is necessary to coerce, shame and bully those who do not indulge in harmful belief systems, where women (and men) are reduced to these secondary characteristics.
and not all trans women yearn to be women, devote their lives to behaving as a "woman", undergo surgery to align physically with a woman, wear their womanface day in and day out, commit to political and social activism to establish credibility as a woman and so on.
In fact, the number of trans women that surgically transition is quite small. Some of that will be access/cost, but I think it's also to do with the degree of disability that goes with surgery (pain and dysfunction). It's also because many trans identified males do in fact want to play at it.
I suspect you are thinking of transsexual males with serious gender dysphoria. The trans umbrella is much broader than that.
In addition there are non-binary males who want to be included in women's space/culture. In the years I have been involved in this debate I've not once seen an explanation for why NB males should have access to women's space and culture.
I don't like the term womanface, and there are good arguments against its use, just not the one you made.
Because what you have just done is such a common dynamic, I'm going to spell it out. Many liberals who have taken a pro-trans politics position against women's rights, have a poor understanding of the politics involved. In this case, the idea that trans women are transexuals with gender dysphoria, rather than understanding that trans now is a very, very broad term, and there is pressure to include all the trans-identified males in the category of women.
When I say that self-ID means any man can say they are a woman at any time and must be accepted as such, this is what I am talking about. It is false to argue that trans-identified males are what you described. What you described is in fact a very small proportion of TIMs.
Further, the reason you don't know this is because of No Debate, and the habitual response of liberal trans allies who simply don't listen to what left wing and other women have been saying for years.
Yes, thanks, weka, I expected a response along the lines of what you've written (well).
"I don't like the term womanface, and there are good arguments against its use, just not the one you made."
Then I defer to those good arguments. I feel the "blackface" comparison is a poor one.
"and not all trans women yearn to be women, devote their lives to behaving as a "woman", undergo surgery to align physically with a woman, wear their womanface day in and day out, commit to political and social activism to establish credibility as a woman and so on."
This is doubtless true; there are always exceptions to a rule 🙂 I was generalising, and knew it.
"In fact, the number of trans women that surgically transition is quite small." That "number" is still greater, I believe, than the number of whites who undergo surgery to become black.
@weka
Your question was: "Do you dispute that some gender critical women are homophobic and/or dislike trans women?"
Not a question about MY personal perspective, and I don't usually atttempt to answer in the place of others, but I thought the question was in good faith and attempted to answer it as such. Without excusing or making apology for perspectives that I don't share.
"I don't like the term womanface, and there are good arguments against its use, just not the one you made."
Neither do I, (and again I understand you are talking to Robert here) but I want to be clear that you asked whether I had seen other women do so, and I have. I can understand their perspective without utilising their use. A labour politician has been stood down in the UK for the crime of "liking" a social media post, making this specific reference, so it was close to hand when looking for examples of women who express distaste with men who declare themselves women:
https://x.com/skippy_0h/status/1746133749019050082?s=20https://x.com/skippy_0h/status/1746133749019050082?s=20
We can discuss whether this is an appropriate response to a trivial action.
Did I? Is there reply confusion happening here? My comment about womanface was a response to RG.
Same. As with much of the war, including the actions of Landy and the person who wrote the article, I see the… tenor or character of much of the current debate as being a result of No Debate and left wing gender critical feminists in particular being excluded from public discussion.
It’s also a consequence of women being abused and ostracised and having their backs against the wall regarding women’s rights.
So I’m not usually surprised and my criticisms of Landy have been more about strategy as much as anything. But again, we have the Landy sisters doing what they do because the NZ GCFs got taken out of the game.
See I think she should have been stood down for political ineptitude (on the face of it, I haven’t looked past your link). If she’s going to be so stupid as to not understand how that tweet would play out politically, she’s a liability to UK Labour. Much the same way as Kerekere became a liability to the Greens, because she couldn’t read the room and her comms were causing problems.
There are ways to push back against gender identity ideology without using hugely problematic tropes like in that tweet.
The standing down because of transphobia causes problems for GC women, who then react against the anti-terfery and ignore the political ineptitude, and that takes us back to the hands we have been dealt and how women will do what they need to irrespective of the damage done along the way.
And of course, it’s entirely possible that the candidate is in fact transphobic. I haven’t had time yet to reply to your comments on that from this morning, but there are a chunk of GC people who simply can’t stand trans women because they can’t stand them. We can see it in the US most obviously with those of the religious right who want transness and gender non-conformity to not exist.
@weka
I edited, probably before your reply to make clear my reference was in regards to your question, and that I understood that you were replying to Robert.
"There are ways to push back against gender identity ideology without using hugely problematic tropes like in that tweet."
Problematic is another word I'm avoiding, so I'm guessing we are going to be in disagreement.
I don't use the blackface analogy, because the two instances are not analogous. Not because it is "problematic".
I can both understand the reasoning behind those who choose to use it, and agree that there are examples of men who absolutely do perform their idea of women in a demeaning way.
I can maintain sympathy for people who have difficulty accepting their sex, without colluding with the delusion that it is possible for them to change their sex.
I can also understand the frustration of women who are confronted with men – who are neither distressed or vulnerable – but gleeful about being able to demonstrate their misogyny or paraphilia in society not only without censure, but with full support of those who consider themselves progressive.
Do so what? Can you please quote me and link to where I said the thing you are referring to, because I’m lost.
So maybe don’t assume my use of ‘problematic’ is the same use you don’t like?
Same. Also, in GC circles (as in all of politics) there is actual racism. Using womanface makes things messy and the current debate is not only incapable of dealing with that, it’s also caused a lot of damage and division.
@weka
"Do so what? Can you please quote me and link to where I said the thing you are referring to, because I’m lost."
Your question was here:
https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-13-01-2024/#comment-1984607
… and it was:
And my reply clarifying my recognition of that fact with an example was here:
https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-13-01-2024/#comment-1984727
If this is getting too bogged down then I am happy to let it go.
However, I will make note of the fact that while aware of such women, I am also very aware of men who declare themselves to be women, expressing perspectives that both denigrate and demean women and girls. These men not only are not censured for it, they often receive accolades, financial rewards and positions of authority over women or women's advocacy.
There are many such examples. One recent one was the appointment of Munroe Bergdorf as the UN Champion for women. The comments they have made are mild compared to others but show little awareness about women, and disparagement for women who believe sex recognition matters:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12932435/munroe-bergdorf-unchampion-british-women-hate-women.html
From the (extremely long) letter:
"Let’s be clear about something.
Phillippa was trespassed from New World Ōtaki because she is suspected of being a Terf.
She is a Terf.
I am a Terf.
Many, many, thousands of women around the world are Terfs."
Quite strident in her beliefs.
Are you excusing the trespassing women for "stridency" now?
"Men aren't women – even if you squint" is a statement of fact.
"Men are women" – is a unfounded belief – an article of faith.
You posted a link to a letter: "an article written by someone close to the customer"
That woman is quite strident.
"That woman is quite strident."
So?
How do you determine stridency?
What do you propose should be the consequence of stridency?
When you've cleared that up, will you then address the truth of the first statement, and the disconnection from reality that is required to consider it offensive?
Have you not read the letter?
Strident as.
what's wrong with a woman being strident?
Who said being strident is wrong?
perhaps you are unaware that strident is a negative term used about women, especially in politics, to undermine them and their words/actions/mana.
Is it?
I had no idea it had picked up/been assigned a particular value when used to describe women!
How odd!
Not so much odd as everyday sexism
I can see that "hysterical" can be, but "strident"? There's nothing (that I can see) intrinsic in the word that might trigger anguish.
Must be an insider-thing.
Is "intense" everyday sexism?
I think, Robert, that both strident and hysterical are equally potent words when it comes to unfairly attacking an opponent.
With regard the use of inflammatory terms, Anker says:
"I have had great feedback when I wear it. Its targeting the mysogyny of the term Terf"
but Molly's letter-writer and supporter of the t-shirt-wearer says,
"Let’s be clear about something.
Phillippa was trespassed from New World Ōtaki because she is suspected of being a Terf.
She is a Terf.
I am a Terf.
Many, many, thousands of women around the world are Terfs."
Has consensus been arrived at here on TS regarding the word?
I understood "hysterical" to be particularly inflammatory and can see why.
Strident:
presenting a point of view, especially a controversial one, in an excessively forceful way.
"public pronouncements on the crisis became less strident"
Not really seeing how that's offensive but accept weka's advice that it has taken on that quality in some circles (is "circles" okay?)
These last three comments from you Robert again speak to your lack of knowledge in the area. It’s kind of like a conventional farmer trying to have a conversation about growing trees without understanding soil microbia.
Let me break it down.
The problem isn’t that the words trigger anguish. The problem is that they are used as tools by people, usually men, to put women in their place. That’s the difference between personal insult and politics. In class analysis, biological sex is one of the three axes of oppression (along with race/ethnicity and socio-economic class). Sexism is part of the system of oppression of females on the basis of sex, it’s not something that can be understood primarily through a lens of triggering anguish.
The words aren’t intrinsically sexist, the sexism is in the usage. Calling a poem strident has a different implication than calling a woman strident. Most feminists know the sexist used of the word strident. That you don’t see anything sexist about the word is an indication of your lack of awareness.
Thus, you could have called the post intense and not invoked a sexist trope.
The sexism isn’t when women take words in a certain manner, it’s when people, usually men, use words in a certain manner.
Again, it’s not about offence taken, or even given, although some people use words to be both sexist and offensive.
The word terf was coined a long time ago by a trans woman. It’s an acronym: trans exclusionary radical feminist. That in and of itself is a relatively neutral albeit somewhat inaccurate descriptor. But since the gender/sex wars of the last decade, it’s been taken up and used by some liberals, trans activists, trans allies (TA), and Men’s Rights Activists, as a term of abuse.
This equating of terf with a woman bigot/nazi/evil doer, was an intentional strategy, widely promoted. It’s also been used to direct violent misogyny at women online, and the TAs and gender identity ideologists have largely sanctioned this. That’s often left wing men, sanctioning online violence against women because they object to the women’s feminist politics
A lot of women reclaimed the word terf, in the same way that black men reclaimed nigger, or gay men reclaimed queer.
Again, the meaning and intend of the usage of the word itself depends on who is using it and how.
There is no consensus on words on TS that I’m aware of. I moderate the word terf as a term of abuse when I see it, but there is no ban on the word itself, which is why today’s use on TS is fine.
You can probably see the same thing with the word nigger. A black man using the term in the rap song is quite different from a KKK member using it a term of abuse towards black people.
"These last three comments from you Robert again speak to your lack of knowledge in the area. It’s kind of like a conventional farmer trying to have a conversation about growing trees without understanding soil microbia."
If your conventional farmer-who-lacked-knowledge-about-soil microbia was discussing trees, I'd regard it as an opportunity to increase her knowledge, for the betterment of all, rather than lambast her for her ignorance. Not saying that's what's happening here, but there's a hint of it in the air…
ok. I’ve seen farmers react to reasonable explanations as if they were being lambasted. Criticism can be hard to take for sure. This is a political blog with an ethos of robust debate. I can change how I communicate more than I already am, but you’d have to give me some clues. I’ve been feeling I have to really spell it out because I’ve observed a fair amount of missing the point from you on this topic. Too blunt?
"Most feminists know the sexist used (sic) of the word strident. "
Do they?
There's certainly no clue in the word itself, as there is with "hysterical".
I guess it's the responsibility of all people who are not feminists, to research words to determine if they are sexist.
"The sexism isn’t when women take words in a certain manner, it’s when people, usually men, use words in a certain manner."
Given I was unaware of the sexist nature of the word, "strident", how can what you say be true? Do you genuinely feel I was intentionally using it in a sexist manner? Or could it be that it was just taken that way?
rereading the thread, here’s what happened.
FWIW, no, I don’t think you used the term in an intentionally sexist way. If you look back you can clearly see that I have not at any time said you were being sexist. What I did was point out that the term has a sexist usage, because I thought you were unaware of that and you might want to be aware of that in a conversation about women’s rights.
If I think someone on TS is being overtly, intentionally sexist, I usually say so up front.
What would be useful right now is if you would clarify if you accept that the term has a sexist history (despite you not knowing that earlier and not having used it that way).
Jesus wept!
Yes, I can see the term has "the term has a sexist history" – what in God's name would cause you to think I hadn't?
🙂
The intensity that develops around these issues is what interested me; what happened to batting ideas back and forward, for the sake of it?
Sooo serious, we are, here on TS.
tbh, I struggle with your conversational/debate style sometimes. I didn’t see you acknowledge that the term has a sexist history. Your questioning rhetoric often comes across as questioning the validity of what people are saying. It was strange to me that we spent so much time talking about concepts of political language that I think are common place on TS.
As for batting ideas back and forth, maybe for you this is a lighter issue. For some of us it is incredibly serious. For me personally, GC politics is the most important issue we face after climate/ecology (for complex reasons to do with the suppression of women’s knowledge and way of thinking about climate/ecology, and I don’t think it’s coincidence there are very strong pushes to remove women-centre politics at this time). Although the Treaty issues arising are up there too. Same deal.
Yes, TS is a serious place. There’s fun and different kinds of exchanges as well, but pays to pick the topic I think.
"Yes, TS is a serious place. There’s fun and different kinds of exchanges as well, but pays to pick the topic I think."
So, avoid the feminist stuff, eh!
No fun to be had there!
Got it!
You are welcome to talk about feminist issues, and GC pol doesn't just affect women. But you can't expect other people to talk about it with the fun vibe you seem to want, if they don't want to.
I had some great fun with GC feminists last year, and there were times when it was incredibly serious. I really don't see the problem other than maybe you misreading the room or wanting other people to act in a certain way.
"tbh, I struggle with your conversational/debate style sometimes."
You're not alone in that, weka 🙂
Thanks for the reminder (I forget about that).
thanks Robert.
"Men aren't women – even if you squint" is a statement of fact.
No, it's not a fact. "even if you squint" indicates that it's a visual perception issue. That means seeing a man or a woman is the issue. If you squint and see a woman, you see a woman, whether the subject of your attention is or isn't (it might even be a mannequin).
it's a weird tshirt, the slogan doesn't work very well in that you have to think about it rather than getting it immediately.
Might "indicate" a perception issue – but still a statement of fact.
However, people have a problem with the concise and accurate three word descriptor – adult human female – so I don't think clarity improves that cognitive issue.
Maybe an example of an individual/group claiming and using a word to 'defang' it?
At the PYO blueberry farm where I pick, ~10 years ago the unpretentious roadside sign "Blueberries, 9 – 2 pm" had been altered to read "Blueberries are Gay".
That’s funny (to me) to this day – perhaps you had to be there.
😂
Trotter's diagnosis of Labour's mistakes:
Hang on, he oughta already know that Labour always blames any semi-plausible scapegoat. Not in their genes to acknowledge their mistakes – still silent, laying low.
An eastern US event rarer than Halley's comet.
2024 is a special year for periodical cicadas:
The next co-emergence of any kind will not happen for another 13 years!
https://cicadas.uconn.edu/
Actually despite my change of heart politically, congrats to Jacinda and Clarke. And frankly the protesters should bugger off.
Protest any other day, knock yourself out, but its their wedding ffs.
I might add, protesting about Jacinda is a little close to trying to punish her. So I am not endorsing their protest of her
Haven't been keeping up with the news (really not very interested in other people's weddings) – but if there are protesters there – they should be ashamed of themselves.
Yes agreed, good riddance to her and the damage she's done to NZ will take years/decades to undo
But she's left office so it's over, let her enjoy her wedding in peace
Ummm – I for one am very grateful to our former PM as I had covid nearly 2 years ago which affected my heart, which I gather would have been far worse if I hadn't been vacinated (I continue to keep up to date with my boosters) and take extra care as Covid is back with us with avengeance and quite rampant in our area. Just glad I'm still alive and sort of kicking.
That's nice
If anyone responds in a smarmy manner, JillyBee, just ignore them 🙂
Smarmy, or prattish – as in 'a self-important prattish' manner?
Not Robin himself, of course, just his commenting style here – Acting the prat.
Robin's chosen an interesting handle, given the Goodfellow chap who presided over the National Party throughout their Dirty Politics years…
Bless your heart
You're a Goodfellow, Robin.
I know what you mean, Jilly.
Ardern did a great deed in declaring a lock down or two and protecting the most vulnerable amongst us the best she could have done and that was all anybody could have asked for in that time.
I am grateful that she was there when the first outbreaks were around.
It could have been worse. :O
Thats good to hear Jilly Bee.
Actually without wanting to use Jacinda's special day, it does take us back to Pats original piece on here about Dame Anne Salmond column. We were united under the initial phase of Covid, "team of 5 millon". Then quickly became divided. What happened?
IMO ideology took over the Govt agenda. I found it alarming the ideas in the He Puapua report, followed up by things like the Rotorua amendment Bill, the gender self ID select committee, where women were raising very valid concerns and were treated with contempt by mostly Labour women MPs. As there was imo no mandate for these policies (gender self Id, trans in women's sports in particular have very poor support in political polls. What are you supposed to do when the govt you have supported are pushing through legislation that they have not campaigned on? This is a geniune question. I think the coalition might be blamed for pushing the division, but actually they were responding to policy being brought in by Labour. Someone said it takes two to tango. But if someone starts something, sometimes the best option is to push back
" We were united under the initial phase of Covid, "team of 5 millon". Then quickly became divided. What happened?"
Nothing to do with gender, all to do with Covid.
The Covidiots created the divide.
"it's all their fault"
It's funny, when reading Dame Anne Salmond's article and she spoke of divisions and the need to heal them, I thought of Robert and the attitudes behind cookers, now covidiots.
Just kinda pulling the scab off and having a poke at the wound just for the sake of it.
EDIT: Nevermind – found the link to her article!
it's a strange blindspot.
I've sworn off the use of that term, gsays.
Are you struggling to do the same?
"Protest any other day, knock yourself out, but its their wedding ffs."
Then this:
"Actually without wanting to use Jacinda's special day, it does take us back…"
Both from Anker, in the space of an evening.
pushing through legislation that they have not campaigned on
Tbh I didn't really notice they were doing so until quite late. I'm so used to their bumbling style I guess, I did point out quite a few times onsite here that it seemed peculiar they were doing what the media called co-governance without explaining themselves to the public, but it never actually occurred to me that it was cynical.
I did read it as timidity, but that's just usual Labour. I think I may have even given them credit for being progressive about it once or twice. But stealth politics does have an anti-democratic whiff about it. There's a reasonable basis for co-governance, if you view the Treaty as a social contract, so I guess I indulged them on that basis.
The opposition to it also seems reasonable if you see the Treaty as merely history though, and I doubt Dame Anne has explicitly supported Labour's strategy.
May you all have a good day.