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Open mike 13/09/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 13th, 2022 - 59 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

59 comments on “Open mike 13/09/2022 ”

  1. Bill Drees 1

    TVNZ have spent the last four days reinforcing the notion that Colonialism/Racism was/is a glorious endeavour and should be celebrated in glorious pageantry.

    • Ad 1.1

      I'd suggest giving her time to get cold in there, but she was cold to start with.

    • swordfish 1.2

      .

      For chrissakes, spare us your drearily-predictable virtue-signaling, all the ludicrous moral & rhetorical posturing bereft of any genuine historical understanding outside of your crude, distorted quasi-religious dogma … the constant desire for in-group prestige-enhancement via perpetual displays of your supposedly superior moral sensibilities (LOL) … just give it a bloody break … even if for only a few days.

      It’s like being tied-down & forced to listen endlessly to a turbo-charged Rik from The Young Ones.

      You & your Woke dullard chums make Bible-thumping born-again Christians seem absolutely riveting by comparison.

      • Anker 1.2.1

        Well said as usual Swordfish.

        You may be interested in the video link below that Weka posted. Head of the LGBT consortium spouting all sorts of garbage. They have taken the LGB Alliance to Court to remove their charitable status. Not very inclusive if you ask me….

        I am not sure who the guy on the u tube clip is but he is very good and funny and talks about the critical social justice movement.

        • Hanswurst 1.2.1.1

          Exactly. Anti-monarchists, LGBT activists, elderly white people, Maori and all that sort of type need to know their place. After all, anything you label as woke is automatically exactly the same as anything else you label as woke.

          • swordfish 1.2.1.1.1

            .

            I mean … just the sheer jaw-dropping confusion & cluelessness embedded within this – let's face it – tragically ill-conceived attempt at mockery.

            When people critique Wokedom … it’s about challenging a very specific set of extremist, highly discriminatory, elitist & anti-democratic policies / ideas. A crude dogma that is, in key respects, the antithesis of traditional Social Democratic principles & concerns.

            • Muttonbird 1.2.1.1.1.1

              It’s about challenging a very specific set of extremist, highly discriminatory, elitist & anti-democratic policies / ideas.

              The policy/ideas are not extreme, they're mainstream. They're not discriminatory, they're anti-discriminatory. They're not elitist, they're from ordinary people. They're not anti-democratic, they're more widely representative.

      • Hanswurst 1.2.2

        I'm reminded of Oscar Wilde's observation on fox hunting.

        • swordfish 1.2.2.1

          .

          How remarkably erudite of you to say so.

          Very Left bank of the Bloomsbury Set.

          I'm beginning to see you as a kind of Bavarian Noel Coward.

      • Bill Drees 1.2.3

        Thanks for your thoughtful and rational contribution to debate. The pages of TheStandard wouldn’t be the same without you.

  2. AB 2

    We normally call for enquiries into things that have been a self-evident failure, not things that have been an obvious success. National's call for an enquiry into the Covid response is an attempt to taint the public perception of that response by smothering it in these negative emotions associated with the word "enquiry". It appears the Government will have to initiate an enquiry to prevent a future National government assembling a kangaroo court to reach the conclusion they want.

    • Johnr 2.1

      Well said. The Nactzis are as cunning as an outhouse rat.

      Shows that Cluxon does have his marbles they're rattling around in his scrotum. And, Nicola's Willie is standing erect alongside.

      Sorry it's the 'head' that ferments grubby thoughts.

  3. Molly 3

    Jan Rivers has written an article about the NZ implementation of trans affirming healthcare – the familiar lack of record-keeping and follow up, the excuse of advocacy demands rather than clinical evidence, and the refusal to independently review the basic medical science behind current practice.

    https://www.publicgood.org.nz/2022/09/13/the-closure-of-englands-youth-gender-medicine-clinic-and-its-impacts-for-new-zealand/

    …If the figures from Christchurch are typical for New Zealand the referral to medication rate is ten times higher in New Zealand than in England. (High Court of Justice, 2020) (Broughton, 2021) and the overall rate per head of population shows them to be show that the drug could be being prescribed more than 30 times more frequently per head of population in New Zealand.(Fully Informed, 2021) Gender health specialists argue in favour of their very free use in New Zealand.(Oliphant, 2017)

    Compared with England, New Zealand treatment is highly devolved, with puberty blockers available from paediatric services, youth health services, endocrinologists and primary health care teams. (Ministry of Health, 2020) Standards of care are variable.(PATHA, 2021)

    If you have not taken time to look into this medical response (scandal/failure) then this article provides you with the context and a sound platform to follow up with your own independent research.

    We are giving advocacy based – rather than patient centred – therapeutic, medical and surgical interventions to minors that are not clinically evidenced to be of benefit and may:

    • impair brain and psychological impairment,
    • induce osteoporosis,
    • remove capacity for sexual responsiveness and orgasm,
    • has studies indicating long term increase in suicides,
    • renders many infertile,
    • will create a population that requires life-long medical treatments, etc.

    I find it difficult to understand those that support this approach, if they are aware of the history behind WPATH recommendations and the lack of clinical evidence.

    This is appalling treatment of our young people, and a damaging misuse of limited health funds.

    • psych nurse 3.1

      Countless young Females transitioning to Male come through our Mental Health inpatient services. Almost without exception they have a Borderline Personality Disorder. Bodily mutilation, either by supplementary hormones or surgery is just another form of deliberate self harm. The saddest case would be the young bearded man suicidal because after a mastectomy and hysterectomy at eighteen now realizes their mistake.

      To allow this mutilation to occur in young people who's sexuality can be very fluid is a huge mistake with lifelong consequences.

      • Molly 3.1.1

        That's a sobering story, but one that is familiar if you are keeping up to date with transition/ detransition stories.

        What is the culture like amongst your Mental Health professionals?

        Are there any concerns or discussions around this issue?

        Are there standard data collection and follow up protocols?

      • Peter 3.1.2

        It might seem odd suggesting that if there are "countless" young females transitioning to male coming through our Mental Health inpatient services, someone would think a number be put up.

        'Countless' suggests there's a veritable torrent, tsunamis of people, too many to count.

        Is that so? How do you know? If someone working in the industry says they are 'inundated' with such cases, what does that mean?

        Molly's concern about standard data collection is fair. Simply knowing the numbers might at least give us just reason to not use words like 'countless,' not just in numerical terms but in generalised 'shock, horror' terms.

        I would posit that in our city there are not masses of young females transitioning to male let alone going through the mental health services.

        • Molly 3.1.2.1

          Jan River's article does reference some of the available data we have in NZ, and extrapolates acknowledged estimates from that.

          Regardless of where you stand on the quality of healthcare, everyone should be demanding collection of comprehensive data, and review of clinical evidence that informed this approach.

        • Molly 3.1.2.2

          Just wanted to point out that the standard threat of suicides by non-affirmation responses, was never a robust data driven reality.

          Despite this, and the ignored recommendation of guidelines regarding suicide ideation, this has repeatedly been reported as factual.

        • Anker 3.1.2.3

          I imagine psych nurse is working flat out on a busy understaffed unit, so countless might be impressionistic, but gives an idea that de=transistioners are the rare minority that the Trans Rights Activists would have us believe.

      • Anker 3.1.3

        Thanks for posting this excellent article Molly. And many thanks psych nurse for letting us know what is being seen in psych services.

        The case you mention is an utter tragedy. And the denial of de-transitioners by trans rights activists is shocking and unacceptable.

        In a world where we have big problems, such as climate change, which appear to be very difficult to solve, I would have thought that halting this trend of medically transitioning young people would be something everyone would want to see happen.

        Its about enough people standing up to the trans lobby and the govt taking the same measures that Dr Hilary Cass has in her review of Tavistock.

        Not doind so means there will be more and more of the young people psych nurse describes.

  4. Robert Guyton 4

    This man is our best bet:

    “If New Zealand can't do it, well, then nobody can. So I do feel a great sense of responsibility, not just because of New Zealand’s emissions profile, but actually because I think we’re at the vanguard of something that many, many other countries are going to be grappling with,” he said."

    James Shaw. bigger than he appears on tv 🙂

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/129854910/i-lost-my-job-shaw-on-being-back-leading-the-greens-and-tackling-farm-emissions

  5. weka 5

    Meanwhile, state of play with the gender wars in the UK.

    Gender identity activists have gone to court seeking to remove the charitable status of LGB Alliance because they’re organising around sexual orientation rather than gender identity. Here’s a man, head of a consortium of LGBT organisations saying that sexual orientation is against their values. This is homophobia, the position is that people aren’t attracted to sex but gender identity and arguing for same sex attraction is transphobic. If you’re confused, this is because some TW who are attracted to females ie they’re het makes, insist on calling themselves lesbian and hassling lesbians to date them even if they still have fully male bodies. Girl dick is meant to be different to man dick and lesbians are transphobic for not wanting it.

    for the people who said none of this was happening, it’s now in a British court being hashed out.

  6. aj 6

    Complexity is in the interest of the oligarchy. “The government are agents of the oligarchy. They are crooks and they are thieves.”

    Yanis Varoufakis picks apart the corrupt European energy system – parts of this echo the New Zealand experience. His comment about getting to speak in the msm for 20 seconds before interruption is right on the button.

    https://diem25.org/yanis-varoufakis-picks-apart-the-corrupt-european-energy-system/

    Why are they doing this? Because complexity is in the interest of the oligarchy. I just took 23 minutes to explain this to you. No media are going to give me 23 minutes in Greece to explain this to people out there. Nobody’s going to allow the people of France, the people of Portugal, the people Slovakia, 23 minutes in order to have somebody explain this to them. You get 20 seconds and then you are interrupted.

  7. SPC 7

    There is a complex replay of the decline and fall of the Weimar Republic era. Once again a combination of economic difficulty (this time a global supply chain disruption and nations indebted because of the GFC and pandemic), a struggle between necessary evolution to social democracy (financial and tax reform) and the neo liberal and fascist alternatives (a combination of which is oligarchy), an imperial ambition impasse (risk of war) and of course the global warming problem.

    Of course those governments with pretensions of being left of centre and which might take opportunity to openly declare a social democratic platform will face considerable opposition – from the establishment neo liberal public service and the middle class media estate. They will however partner up on the progressive social reform and increase in government power over the people (either to manage the public narrative or to enforce an order). Of course the government plan to bring in “hate speech” law has already met a response – most obviously the free speech coalition and NACT opposition, but also a number of conspiracy theory groups (such as control of the public space via government funding of media media and censorship because they are part of some global plan to do x and y to democracy etc).

    In that matter, restraint by government is the grown up example. For example online anonymity protects people from (real life) persecution for the exercise of their free speech. All the current system needs is the ability to identify those making threats to others (which are a matter of existing law) and removing some of them from the right to legally possess weapons.

    To this point the government has moved on interest deductability (and bright line extension) but not moved on wealth accumulation (one reason to vote Green).

    It has collectivIsed health to centralise supply of scarce resources, but labour shortage constraints remain. When will it end requirement of staff working here to pay back their TD? Where is the set up of an investment fund for smart investment in drugs that maintain health that reduce dependence on hospital care cost?

    In housing it has yet to reposition from use of motels to acting in the private market (as prices decline) to increase the number of properties it has to rent out at income related rent and playing smarter on supply boost.

  8. Poission 8

    May he, whom Nature's laws obey, Who lifts the poor, and sinks the proud, "Quiet the raging of the sea, And still the madness of the crowd!"

    But never shall our isle have rest, Till those devouring swine run down, (The devils leaving the possest) And headlong in the waters drown.

    The nation then too late will find, Computing all their cost and trouble, Directors' promises but wind, South Sea, at best, a mighty bubble.

    Swift 1721

    House prices have now dropped by the largest in 6 months bringing median NZ prices to 800k,and more to come as the bubble contracts to sustainable levels.

    Global property markets are expected to contract until at least 2024,due to risk realignment with increasing interest rates (US least affected due to long term fixed rates)

    • SPC 8.1

      Yeah the long fixed rate mortgages (bank culpability for bad debts if the sale price is less than the mortgage loan) mean their housing market is less impacted by the raising of rates to manage inflation.

      It’s a complicated world economy atm …

      Computing all their cost and trouble …

      Quantum game theory is an extension of classical game theory to the quantum domain. It differs from classical game theory in three primary ways:

      1. Superimposed initial states,
      2. Quantum entanglement of initial states,
      3. Superposition of strategies to be used on the initial states.

      This theory is based on the physics of information much like quantum computing

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_game_theory

    • Bearded Git 8.2

      They said on Morning Report this morning that house prices in NZ are still 19% above what they were in 2020. And in 2020 they were far too high.

      Crisis? What crisis?

      • Poission 8.2.1

        People leveraged debt on the imaginary wealth growth,to buy investment property,etc. the bubble was around 42% fueled by low interest rates,changes in lending rules,it now relaxes to its natural limits of ability to pay.

  9. joe90 10

    Just when Poots is as busy AF….

    https://www.reuters.com/world/fresh-clashes-erupt-between-azerbaijan-armenia-2022-09-12/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021%E2%80%932022_Armenia%E2%80%93Azerbaijan_border_crisis

  10. PsyclingLeft.Always 11

    White supremacist Philip Arps fails in bid to be elected to school board

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/474680/white-supremacist-philip-arps-fails-in-bid-to-be-elected-to-school-board

    Yeah…scumbag. I'm hopeful that any publicity this slime got…reinforces how absolutely hateful/hatefilled he and his ilk are.

    • Finn McCool 11.1

      The scary thing is he received 25 votes. I was hoping he'd get a few votes at best. My guess is each of those 25 voters don't live in a ideological bubble. They have hubs of people around them who have similar views, and are probably indoctrinating their children to hate without reason.

      • PsyclingLeft.Always 11.1.1

        Weka had a link to…

        Daily review 15/08/2022

        #1.3

        Indocrinating with hate. Disgusting!

  11. Poission 12

    NZ merchandise trade deficit rises to 11.6 billion an increase of 10.5 billion in 12 months.

    There will be big alarm bells ringing at the rating agencies,as we await the current account release.

    https://www.stats.govt.nz/information-releases/overseas-merchandise-trade-july-2022/

    • Ad 12.1

      Depressing at 3.5% unemployed we work damn hard, yet fall further and further away from exporting to pay our way.

      Our GDP quarter can't be good.

      • Poission 12.1.1

        Whilst there is a an substantive increased cost, now apparent with the closure of Marsden point (where transformation costs were realised in NZ,and can be seen in the increased import of other chemical products.There is also a substantive waste in the import of product that will not increase either efficiency or import substitution.

      • pat 12.1.2

        And yet you advocate applying the hammer to our major export…go figure.

        • Ad 12.1.2.1

          More cheap bulk mass products won't cure our trade position.

          Figured pretty easily actually.

          • pat 12.1.2.1.1

            When 'bulk mass products' are all you have to offer its probably not a great idea to get rid of them…especially when you need the products they enable.

            • Ad 12.1.2.1.1.1

              They aren't if the milk companies do their job.

              It won't change until this government keeps propping up Fonterra with yet more enabling legislation to give them more power over farmer shareholders, and less and less reason to shift away from being a commodity producer.

              • Blazer

                Fonterra is NZ's biggest coy..booking $600mil in profits…the big 4 banks take out 10x ..that!

                That's the new world order…financial 'products'…vs productive activity…all good..who cares!

              • pat

                Then get your massive brain elected to the board of Fonterra and solve the problems that others have been unable to solve for 40 plus years

          • Poission 12.1.2.1.2

            Dairy exports increased 2.8 billion by value in the last 12 months,volume was down 9% prices up 28%.

            • Ad 12.1.2.1.2.1

              Overall value of dairy exports increases by 17 percent | RNZ News

              There's the link for you. Milk powder, cheese and butter, sold by the tonne.

              In its first decade Fonterra had the ambition to aim for value over volume.

              Since 2017 it's been sold down and stripped back to solely this country. A pretty poor definition of value-add.

              No one should be praising an industry for making basically the same stuff we were making after World War 1.

              • Poission

                Here is the original link from stats.(for the bulk mass products)

                Although the quantity for milk powder, butter, and cheese decreased 9.1 percent, the average unit price saw an increase of 28 percent,

                https://www.stats.govt.nz/news/dairy-commodities-sustain-high-prices/

              • Blazer

                Why not?

                The demand is there.

                Trying to reinvent the wheel with value added did not work with Fonterra.

                A good example -they introduced First Start a breakfast drink to compete with Up and Go…it was going good…Sanitarium (the charity)indicated they would pull their supply contracts with Fonterra ..if they continued to compete.

                Fonterra buckled.

    • Bearded Git 12.2

      Agreed Poission. The chronic increase in the trade deficit has largely flown under the radar. Look for the NZ dollar to plummet when reality hits.

      • Nic the NZer 12.2.1

        You know if the exchange rate did collapse under trade deficits then balance of payments would be basically "self correcting" (not that there is a correct balance anyway). I'm not really convinced that the "reality" your expecting describes these aspects of the economy. We have certainly seen continuous trade deficits with a high NZ dollar simultaneously favouring importers.

        • pat 12.2.1.1

          Whether you are convinced matters not…whether those doing business are however is a different story.

          https://tradingeconomics.com/sri-lanka/currency

          • Nic the NZer 12.2.1.1.1

            So your forecasting a Sri Lankan currency crisis for New Zealand? Or actually your not committing to that forecast either (or even any forecast in fact)?

            • pat 12.2.1.1.1.1

              Neither…Im pointing out that your reckons count for little when it comes to the desirability of any currency

              • Nic the NZer

                If my recons moved the NZ forex markets I wouldn't be commenting, would I. But it seems that (despite your need to counter comment) your expections basically match mine anyway.

                For clarity my expections are that the trade deficit will largely persist and thats not going to move the exchange rate. I expect after the next RBNZ OCR increase the exchange rate will strengthen in fact.

      • Poission 12.2.2

        Watch the interest rates rise (as they are globally) as large scale wish list projects get prices out,with both credit agencies and the IMF looking over shoulders.

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