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Open mike 13/11/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:50 am, November 13th, 2013 - 190 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:



Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy). Step right up to the mike …

190 comments on “Open mike 13/11/2013 ”

  1. amirite 1

    Second reading of Hone’s Feed the kids bill in Parliament today.
    Let’s see who are the dirty rats voting against it.

    • Paul 1.1

      I predict Peter Dunne.

      • aerobubble 1.1.1

        Doesn’t Dunne have huge political influence now he’s discovered a link between the Greens and the Taliban. Oh, and when a MP does that shouldn’t the Speaker have something to say about bring the house into… …I mean its not like it had anything to do with a foreign security service who are about to manage the Commonwealth conference because after all who listens to a party of one.

      • Rosie 1.1.2

        I second that Paul. A few weeks ago on a Radio Active interview Deborah Morris (remember her? Used to be be a NZ First MP back in the 90’s) who represents Every Child Counts was scathing about Dunne’s lack of support for the bill and the DJ was encouraging every one send Dunne an email about his stance.

      • Tracey 1.1.3

        rich families first

    • Paul 1.2

      And on the same day …
      New Zealand…. playground for the rich.


      Private jet visits to NZ booming
      “The market had recovered since the global financial crisis five years ago although many of the super wealthy who own $50 million to $60 million jets were barely affected.

      “The people who own a Global Express or Gulfstream 550 may see their fortune is now $6 billion and it hasn’t made much of a dent in their lifestyle. The top end of the market is going strong.”

      Micky Savage’s dream has become a nightmare.

    • bad12 1.3

      1st, reading that is, the ‘feed the kids bill’ was up for it’s 1st reading a while back but was delayed,(can’t remember the reason),

      Lolz, i see a busload of kids from Poriua’s Natone School are getting a free breakfast at the Parliament today,

      Many long moons ago i wandered in to the Parliaments dining room and helped myself to a good helping of porridge and toast, to my great displeasure they tossed me out befor i could start on the bacon and eggs…

    • millsy 1.4

      I cannot understand why people are so opposed to food in schools.

      It is no different to free milk in schools between 1934 and 1967 (the biggest opponents having chugged that down in their childhood), the school dental service, school nurses and the like.

      Do any of the older guys and girls on here remember such opposition for the free milk in school programme?

      • JK 1.4.1

        I think we all took the free milk and dental service for granted, Millsy. I don’t remember anyone opposing it, but I do remember the milk standing outside the school gates – glass bottles – in the sun, getting a bit too creamy for my own taste, but most of the kids chugged it down okay. (It didn’t go rancid – it wasn’t around long enough for that!)

        • bad12

          i always had the job of hauling the trolley round the classrooms, the silver lining to that, the cream if you will, was that i got to double and triple dip, slurp…

      • Puckish Rogue 1.4.2

        I think its a good idea but I’d take the money from the parents benefit not needed for lunch and breakfast to help subsidise it

        • bad12

          That expresses the divide between left and right quite neatly then doesn’t it, i would far prefer the level of benefit where children are reliant to be far higher, compared to ‘other’ children beneficiary kids are $100 a week worse off through cuts to those benefits and the non-payment of Government programs to those reliant upon benefits,

          The ‘churn’ in beneficiaries means that a larger number of kids than the 250,000 numbered live for a significant period of their developing years where good nutrition is of the utmost importance for their later lives in levels of poverty that are an obscenity in a rich developed nation,

          While supportive of Mana’s ‘food in schools’ bill i do find it demeaning of the parents of benefit dependent children reinforcing the ‘stereotype’ in which the right portray all beneficiaries,

          Having tho said that, it is the kids that must come first over and above the political niceties, and if ‘food in schools’ is the only possible gain for those kids from a system that has badly let them down then so be it…

          • Puckish Rogue

            I see the raising of benefits to be a seperate issue to this…I figure that if parents no longer have to provide 10 meals per week per child (breakfast and lunch x 5) then thats money the parents don’t need to receive (because the childs being fed)

            Whether the amount of money they recieve is sufficient is spererate to this though

            • thatguynz

              Minor problem with your theory there PR. Have you considered that perhaps the kids weren’t getting fed properly at home because they couldn’t afford it? What then for those whose benefits you are reducing further?

              • Puckish Rogue

                Well if they don’t have to provide 10 meals a week per child it’ll even itself out then

                • Colonial Viper

                  Hey dick head. We’re not looking to even things up, we’re looking to improve it in favour of poor families. Surely it’s not that difficult to understand?

                  • Draco T Bastard

                    PR doesn’t appear to be looking to make things better for poor families. He seems to be only concerned with making things better for the rich.

                • framu

                  taking money off someone who has none evens nothing out – it put the issue into a negative

                  do you understand the counterargument people are putting to you?

                  because at the moment your just repeating your self

            • framu

              considering ruth richardson deliberately put benefits 20% (?) below what was considered enough for a single person to exist on (not live, exist) i fail to see how it can be considered separate at all

              the “kids not having enough to eat” problem isnt that all bennie parents are drugged up gambling addicts who watch sky and bash their kids. Its that both beneficiaries and low paid working parents dont earn enough to bloody feed them properly!

              Its a problem that affects the working poor as well as those on a benefit.

              Considering that the food in schools idea is actually bloody cheap (from a govt spend perspective) and that it creates down stream savings i find your approach of hitting the poor once again rather sad.
              How much of your personal tax payment would go to this scheme? I dont know the figure but i would guess its somewhere in the 0.01% area

            • bad12

              Having tried for a few minutes to de-cypher the last line of your comment in relation to what you said above it i think i will just ‘go’ with CV and attach to you the epithet ‘Dick-Head’,

              i will tho make the point again, taxation of benefits, the direct cutting of benefits, and the non-allowance of those receiving benefits what is essentially a family benefit dressed up as a ‘tax credit’ has left the income of beneficiaries with children 100 dollars a week worse off compared to those who can find work,

              As a rule you will find that with a budget that just doesn’t add up to 3 meals a day most people will whittle down the ‘need’ for nutrition to one good meal a day, obviously the average child needs far better nutrition that this if physical and psychological ailments are to be avoided later in life,

              To suggest that these children are solely brought up reliant upon a benefit is an untruth as the ‘churn’ in the figures shows that most are reliant upon such for a few years whereupon their parents enter the workforce, the damage done tho in the meantime may for these children last a lifetime…

            • McFlock

              tories summed up right there: taking money off people is part of the discussion, giving money to people is “a seperate issue”.

              Tory politics is all about give and take – you give, they take.

            • Draco T Bastard

              You’re predicating that on the assumption that the parents have enough money in the first place while all indications are that they don’t.

        • millsy

          You mean like a “Tax” of some sort?

          Oops, I think they already pay that…

    • Tracey 1.5

      there’s no money for that programme or rape prevention programmes in all high schools BUT the government is talking very hard to eradicate poverty and discourage sexual violence. Kay??

  2. just saying 2


    I found the above heartening. He’s not there yet, but neither are a lot of people.

    And – Go Karen!

    • Tracey 2.1

      yes, if not late. It’s part of the problem in a way. Fagan went to work having had a disagreement about this issue and feeling what he felt toward the topic or his wife’s side f the argument he took it out on someone else, This is a lack of self control many suffer from but it’s one end of the same spectrum. It was NEVER about Fagan but he made it about him at the expense of the poor victim who rang in.. No wonder reporting is so low, not only how she would have felt but any women/girls listening would hardly be inspired to come forward. until radio presenters are behaving and controlled like journalists understanding there are consequences and it’s not all about them…

      • just saying 2.1.1

        I completely agree Tracey.

        But I was heartened because I think his account is a completely honest expression of how he sees this. Now anyway.

        He’s been caught up in something that has taken him completely by surprise. And sure, he still feels sorry for himself, and still doesn’t get anything like the how serious his verbal assault was the for the young woman. But there is movement in this issue. The young woman stood her ground. John and Willy lost their jobs, and may not get them back. His wife put him out in the rain to walk to work. Fagan is forced to write a public letter of explanation. And these sorts of incidents, conversations seem to be happening all over the place.

        I was just talking to a friend who was telling me that her elderly (male) neighbour came out when she was collecting her mail, anxious to tell her that he felt sorry for “those poor girls” and “it’s just got to stop”. And they’d never talked about anything like that before. It was like he wanted her to know whose side he was on.

        It’s not that I imagine that this particular fight is over by any stretch of the imagination, just that there is movement in an issue that has seemed intractable during my whole lifetime. Who know’s what’s next? Plutocracy, Climate change….?

        • weka

          Thanks js. I also found Fagan’s letter heartening, simply because he demonstrated how a man can get it wrong and then be honest about that and try and change. Him acknowledging he didn’t know enough about rape culture is important (and something a couple of commenters here could learn from).

          And I agree about the woman Elle – that she was able to say to him “did you not hear what I said?” is awesome.

          It’s not that I imagine that this particular fight is over by any stretch of the imagination, just that there is movement in an issue that has seemed intractable during my whole lifetime. Who know’s what’s next? Plutocracy, Climate change….?

          I feel this way too 🙂

          I’m trying not to get prematurely excited, but you know this year we have now seen 3 significant cultural shifts: the GCSB protests, the change in leadership of the Labour party, and now a tipping point around rape culture in NZ. I have to wonder if the tide is turning.

    • Rogue Trooper 2.2

      always a big fan of Karyn, Andrew, not so much.

  3. Lanthanide 3

    Probably a bit snarky, but it would have been nice if Cunliffe could say re: Tamihere “He’d have a snowflakes chance of standing as a Labour MP again, but perhaps he could consider joining another party like the Conservatives”.

  4. NATO Plays Regime Change Game In Timaru New Zealand And We’re OK With That!

  5. Adrian 5

    Apparently there was an unexpected bonus from milk in schools. A 2011 NZ ( Dunedin,I think.) study found that those of us who drank the milk have a 30% lower incidence of bowel cancer ( 38% if you drank more ) . Rates have gone up since it was stopped. A bloody good reason to reinstate asap.

  6. miravox 6

    George Monbiot explains the loss of trust in politicians

    t’s the reason for the collapse of democratic choice. It’s the source of our growing disillusionment with politics. It’s the great unmentionable. Corporate power. The media will scarcely whisper its name. It is howlingly absent from parliamentary debates. Until we name it and confront it, politics is a waste of time.

    The political role of business corporations is generally interpreted as that of lobbyists, seeking to influence government policy. In reality they belong on the inside. They are part of the nexus of power that creates policy. They face no significant resistance, from either government or opposition, as their interests have now been woven into the fabric of all three main political parties in Britain.

    • CnrJoe 7.1

      “The Argentinian religious leader’
      why does The Independent use this phrase to describe the Pope?

      • Colonial Viper 7.1.1

        Hmmm. Editors probably are not Catholic. The history of the paper and its attitude to the Troubles should explain it.

        The Bishop of Rome would be appropriate…

      • Murray Olsen 7.1.2

        I’m guessing that their readers will take him less seriously if they keep reminding them that he’s only a low life Argie. Not as if he knows about real civilisation or religion like Europeans, after all.

    • Rhinocrates 7.2

      I continue to be amazed that the cardinals have elected a pope who is a good man. Who put what in the water and where can I get some?

      • Bill 7.2.1

        Nice to see you commenting again Rhinocrates. Please put any thoughts you might have been having about ‘taking a sabbatical’ out of your mind 😉

        • Rhinocrates

          Thank you and sorry, but for blah blah reasons I do have to crash or hibernate sometimes.

          I generally comment the most when I have a lot of real work to do… like now. 🙂

  7. Puckish Rogue 8


    – Is this why Labour were quiet when the nerald was looking into National MPs personal wealth…just shows that most parties are as bad as each other

    • fender 8.1

      4.9 million looks pretty insignificant in comparison to these fuckers

      • Puckish Rogue 8.1.1

        Not really the point though is it, a bad looks a bad look and I think people generally suspect that most National MPs are doing quite well anyway whereas most people probably don’t realise Labour does this…

        • karol

          But the weird thing about that article is that it takes aim at the Labour Party with the headline and focus on 5 Labour MPs, but also includes a more muted reference to this:

          The Labour Party owns nearly $5 million worth of property – and taxpayers are footing the bill for five offices rented back to MPs.
          Five of those properties are rented to the Parliamentary Service as electorate offices for MPs Ross Robertson, Ruth Dyson, Phil Twyford, Andrew Little and Chris Hipkins.

          In a similar arrangement, at least five National MPs, including Prime Minister John Key, own their electorate offices, which are rented to themselves.

          Hardly a “balanced” article. Looks like a politically-motivated attack on Labour.

          • Ant

            Totally, really scraping the bottom of the outrage barrel for that article. Electorate offices seems a pretty reasonable use of money since it is a core part of the job. However, financing personal property investment portfolios is not.

    • Puckish Rogue 8.2

      NZherald…(fat fingers)

    • Tracey 8.3

      it’s appalling whoever is doing it and it needs to stop. Double dipping etc etc. These people are public servants, they serve US. PR are you calling for all this to stop, everything in all three articles or are you happy if labour does it then national can?t

      • Puckish Rogue 8.3.1

        I would love a clear set of rules to be followed plus all expenses to be open to the public via a easy to use web site or sum such and all this is be directed by an independent authority

        I just don’t think its going to happen any time soon

      • Draco T Bastard 8.3.2

        There’s two ways that it could stop:
        1.) Parliament owns the electorate office and whichever MP gets to use it
        2.) Parliamentary service doesn’t pay for the electorate office which would actually be a decrease in our democracy

        What’s really happening here is that the party owns an office which they support and use as party central for the electorate. When their candidate becomes an MP that office then becomes the electorate office and the costs of running the office go to Parliamentary Services.

        I’d say that it’s probably quite reasonable but there’d have to be serious demarcation between party activities and electorate activities.

  8. BLiP 9

    Sad day for New Zealand yesterday when the John Key led National government passed the legislation enabling the Sky City convention centre scam. Sad for problem gamblers, sad for their familiets, and sad too for New Zealand that the whole deal has been promoted and pushed through under a cloud of lies coming from the Prime Minister.

    Just a reminder . . .

    the Sky City deal will provide 1000 construction jobs and 800 casino jobs

    all five bidders for the convention centre were treated equally

    my office has had no correspondence, no discussions, no involvement with the Sky City deal

    I did not mislead the House (8)

    I can’t remember what was discussed at my meeting with the SkyCity Chief Executive on 14 May 2009

    I have no record of the 12 November 2009 email from Treasury advising that the SkyCity deal was dodgy and needed to be referred to the Auditor General

    there was nothing improper about the Sky City deal

    SkyCity will only get “a few more” pokie machines at the margins

    any changes to gambling regulations will be subject to a full public submission process

    Sky City has approached TVNZ about the purchase/use of government-owned land

    I did not mislead the House (9)

    this government has been very transparent about all its dealings with SkyCity

    I did not mislead the House (10)

    the Auditor General has fully vindicated National over the Sky City deal

    I did not mislead the House (11)

    the Deputy Auditor General supports the view that there was nothing inappropriate about the Sky City deal

    I did not mislead the House (12)

    I did not breach the confidentiality of the Auditor General’s Report into the Sky City deal

    the Labour Government did exactly the same sort of deal back in 2001

  9. What REALLY concerns me about the shonky NZ International Convention Centre (Sky City ‘money-laundering’) Bill, is that it was effectively railroaded through the House before either ‘Trader John’ or Steven Joyce answered my OIA requests, asking why no ‘due diligence’ had been done by OFCANZ (Organised and Financial Crime Agency of NZ) on the increased risk of money-laundering.

    Read the OFCANZ OIA reply for yourselves:


    So – I have ‘blown the whistle’ to the appropriate international ‘anti money-laundering’ bodies:


    I have also requested that the NZ Office of the Auditor-General (OAG) investigate the above-mentioned lack of ‘due diligence’ by OFCANZ.

    Wouldn’t you think that if there was effectively an ‘money-laundering factory’ in the heart of Auckland City, that there would be an increased risk of organised crime?

    Don’t you think it’s somewhat ironic that Sky City are apparently going to have some form of ‘face recognition’ for problem gamblers, but anonymity for money-launderers?

    Don’t you think it rather convenient that Auckland Council made no mention of the increased risk of money-laundering arising from the NZ International Convention Centre Bill in their submission, and Mayor Len Brown, (who accepted a $15,000 Mayoral campaign donation from Sky City in 2010), allegedly used a Sky City hotel room(s) for his illicit affair with Ms Chuang?

    Anyone else not only concerned about these issues, but actually trying to DO something about them?

    Penny Bright

    ‘Anti-corruption /anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’

    2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate

    • Chooky 10.1

      …sounds good Penny….sounds like you are on the case…imo it is a very important issue!…keep us posted on developments and any answers/results from your inquiries

  10. karol 11

    Whoa! Brian Rudman doesn’t hold back in slamming “kracklite”:

    Take care, mate. I understand the need to protect your privacy & that you probably won’t be using any of your old pseudonyms any time soon (and I won’t be using any other than the username that has been used by some MSM journos.)

    And as for Rudman – he doesn’t let using his birth name getting in the way of unleashing a load of emotive venom:

    The oh-so-brave troll freaked, slamming the phone down and squealing, “Mummy, Mummy, the nasty policeman’s coming to get me”.

    said blog commenter is far from being a tr0ll. Though he may be “tr0ll feaked” ie freaked by some tr0lls on and offline.

    • Puckish Rogue 11.1

      Well hopefully Kracklite (or whatever his name is) has a learnt a valuble lesson about the perils of running ones mouth off

      • karol 11.1.1

        Yes, PR. I can understand why you would see this incident as providing you with a valuable lesson.

        • Puckish Rogue

          I post as if I might actually meet the people I’m posting to in real life which means I do censor some of the things I want to say (out of politeness mostly)

          • lprent

            Most people who know me in real life are perfectly aware that I’m almost as likely to say similar things in almost any circumstances – if I think someone is acting like a fool. I take great delight in undercutting pompous gits in any circumstances and I really don’t bother sparing their feelings because otherwise they will remain pompous gits (usually repeating talkback radio without engaging their brains). I really can’t be bothered with faux politeness in any voluntary situation (I make exceptions for situations where urgency is a major factor).

            However most of the people who are friends, family, and work colleagues are usually pretty damn good at arguing their own side. I guess it is a darwinian winnowing.

            • Rhinocrates

              Agree lprent. BTW, I’m Kracklite – it’s something I don’t conceal, since I use the same avatar for both handles.

              has a learnt a valuble lesson about the perils of running ones mouth off

              No, I’ve never learned any lesson about the perils of running my mouth of. I gather the lesson is supposed to be “keep quiet and allow injustice to occur” and I could never get my head around that.

              • Chooky

                hi Rhino…pleased to see you back…unrepentant!…. and firing on all cylinders!

              • karol

                Good to see you back commenting here Rhino. I didn’t want to assume you were comfortable to have the pseudonym you use here associated with KL & Rudman’s comments.

                However, it means PG’s attempt to out you is a lame piece of …. hmmm.

                Just reminded me that some tr0lls comment under the name by which they are known offline.

                • Rhinocrates

                  Rudman isn’t even on my radar, just another Dead White Man who embodies privilege under Granny’s skirts… and there are a lot of them.

                  (Actually, I’m white myself, but being Scottish, that’s the result of tanning – we’re all naturally pale blue.)

                • Rhinocrates

                  Ah, Pete George, bless him. His signature is always a punchline.

              • Puckish Rogue

                “keep quiet and allow injustice to occur”

                – Nope its meaning was don’t post anything unless you’re prepared for the consequences

                • Rhinocrates

                  It’s amazing that the most reactionary present themselves as rebels, with adjectives serving as nouns.

                  Nope its meaning was don’t post anything unless you’re prepared for the consequences

                  Ah yes, too true! That is exactly the point, which can be paraphrased as “or else…”

                  Thanks for the implicit threat. Who else would you like your big brother to beat up?

                  • Puckish Rogue

                    No once again its not: “keep quiet and allow injustice to occur” its when you post something and include your contact details you have to be prepared to to face up to your actions which in this case meant speaking to the person you had been saying things about

                    Since you didn’t want to speak to him I’m assuming you wern’t prepared to have to answer for you words ie not facing up to the consequences

                    • Rhinocrates

                      PR, you really are naive, aren’t you, or trying not to think too much. I’m of an age and I have friends and family members who aren’t so sanguine about calls from police. Sometimes those police raped them, sometimes they took their family away, not to be seen again. Don’t think that that slippery slope can’t be built here.

                      I do know that when you say “consequences” you mean “deserved punishment”.

                      However, thank you for your explicit acknowledgement that it is not a good idea to reveal any personal details to the police and that one should fear them.

                      I’m assuming

                      Assume away. Assume that fairies exist if you like.

              • Olwyn

                Hi Rhinocrates. I’m glad you haven’t let yourself be silenced by this rather odd bout of public attention – I always enjoy your contributions.

                • Rhinocrates

                  Hi Olwyn, believe me, I’d love to live in a bathysphere or on the cliffs of Valles Marineris or a Trappist Monastery (actually there is a monastery of Tourette, which sounds cool, and it was designed by Le Corbusier…)… but while I desire silence and obscurity, well, it seems that I have this compulsion…

                  • just saying

                    Welcome back Rhinocrates 🙂

                  • NZ Femme

                    I’m glad you have this compulsion. Many of your comments have put a smile on my face for the day. The more bombastic ones have had me keeling over in stitches. I like your style.

                    Re: Monastery life. I sometimes daydream about convent life, Hildegarde Von Bingen style. But the God thing puts me off.

            • King Kong

              lprent, you are a very special man.

              The only reason I have trouble believing that you actually behave like this in public is that if you were (hypothetically) this obnoxious to me or a large majority of the people I interact with, you would spend an awfully long time eating through a straw.

              As you haven’t mentioned multiple hidings, I call bullshit fantasy.

              • Tracey

                so you behave differently online to your “real” life KKK and your solution to those you don’t like is to beat them up?

                • Puckish Rogue

                  Just putting it out but most people on here would probably think I’m a decent guy if they met me in real life (and didn’t ask me what I thought of Russell Norman ;))

                  And I’m guessing that’d be the reaction most people on here would have of each other…we (all of us) probably have more in common with each other then we think

                  • Rhinocrates

                    I congratulate you on your long, loyal and loving relationship that so many aspire to. You and the mirror must be so deeply happy.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      Well thank you, you too can achieve it as well if you believe in yourself

                      “I do know that when you say “consequences” you mean “deserved punishment”.”

                      – No, thats what you would call an assumption and I think theres something witty at the bottom of this post about assumptions

                      “However, thank you for your explicit acknowledgement that it is not a good idea to reveal any personal details to the police and that one should fear them.”

                      – I’m starting to wonder if you live in a fantasy world…

                      “Assume away. Assume that fairies exist if you like.”

                      – When is a fairy not a fairy? when its got its head up an elves skirt and then it becomes a goblin…

                    • Rhinocrates

                      No, thats what you would call an assumption

                      It’s making what is disingenuously implicit explicit.

                      – I’m starting to wonder if you live in a fantasy world…

                      On the other hand, I am already sure that you are. History is not fantasy.

                      As for the final line. Oh dear, please back away from the keyboard, read a book, get some experience.

                      I like cats. I even act like them. Do you know that you resemble a mouse?

                    • Rogue Trooper

                      I have determined my cat is the witch.

                • King Kong

                  To be fair I probably do dial down the charm online as it serves very little purpose. In the real world you would have to be retarded to do that.

                  • Tracey

                    People with down syndrome are very charming. Oh, and the violence to those in real life you don’t like?

                  • Rhinocrates

                    Oh God, another one saying, “I’m really a nice guy in real life”

                    What next “Some of my best friends are…”?

                    OK here I am: I really am sarcastic, misanthropic, pessimistic and opinionated in real life. I shun company. If I’m polite, it’s because I’m trying to find a way to excuse my departure. Got that?

                    • King Kong

                      I think you have just justified my comment above.

                      Anyway, no need to overdo the excuses. You got a touch of the vapours…own it.

                  • Tracey

                    you do “get” that by spending time online it is part of your “real world”.

                  • Rhinocrates

                    This following an overt threat of GBH if you were to meet lprent in real life?

                    • King Kong

                      No, I think you might be jumping to conclusions…again.

                      I said that I didn’t think that lprent behaved the way he says he does in public because if he did there are alot of people (myself included in a hypothetical meeting where he behaved like an obnoxious clown) who would just deck him.

                    • Rhinocrates

                      “I wouldn’t inflict GBH, but my friends would.”

                      OK, got that.

                      You’re repeatedly making implied threats of physical violence towards a site admin through secondary agencies connected to you. When are you going to start making them under your own name?

                      “My friends would…” is an evasion of “I would…” When will you say “I will…”?

                • McFlock

                  goddamn interwebz, forcing him to use his words

                  • Rob

                    What, as opposed to actually conversing with someone on the telephone, who would have thunk it

                    • McFlock

                      Ah, so kk has a diagnosed neurological condition that compels him to violence rather than rational discussion?

                      I didn’t know that “being right wing” was listed in DSM–IV, although I agree that it probably should be.

                    • Rogue Trooper


                • David H

                  What do you expect Tracey. If he can’t win the argument, and it gets a little heated, he will resort to his fists. It’s just typical thug practice, if he cant win the argument, then he hits his opponent.
                  You see heaps of this type of ‘person’ in Wellington/Auckland on a Friday/Saturday nights. They are the reason sane people don’t visit these places anymore.

      • QoT 11.1.2

        a valuble lesson about the perils of running ones mouth off

        How delightfully authoritarian. And I’m sure you’d be just as enthusiastic if it were you getting the same treatment from a regime you disagreed with.

    • Bill 11.2

      And the whole anonymous versus pseudonymous bullshit is raised again. And a paid opinionator/commissar once again displays how to twist and turn an event via omission, selective quoting and a smattering of fiction.

      In my world, his attempted character assassination of a person he doesn’t even know – and by extension and clear implication a whole online world of people who use pseudonyms – is beneath contempt.

      Meanwhile, calling out an organisation is legitimate. And should be encouraged in any society. Surely. Just not in Brian commissar Rudman’s world, peopled as it is by benevolent figures of authority and where all is good and all is right and the aforementioned grown up’s ought to be left to order things and act as they see fit

      • karol 11.2.1

        Well said, Bill.

      • weka 11.2.2

        Yes, so many things wrong with what Rudman wrote. I posted a couple of comments, will see if they turn up.

        Kracklite doesn’t post anonymously, they post pseudonymously. This means they use a consistent name on the internet and regulars know who the person is. Using an apparent real life name like John Wilson means no more than using a name like Kracklite, because there is no way to know who that John Wilson is. What you are suggesting isn’t an issue of names, it’s an issue of sharing personal details online. Many of us have valid and very good reasons for not doing so. You don’t have to live in China to fear for your job or wellbeing. That you have a level of security and privilege in your life that means you can be published using your RL name doesn’t mean everyone does.

        btw anonymous commenters are people where there is no way to know which particular person is posting at any given time. Most serious political blogs don’t allow anonymous commenting because it’s too hard to follow debate when you don’t know who made any specific comment. A good example of anonymous posting is newspapers that publish editorials without saying who wrote the piece.

        I know Kracklite’s commenting style, and while their comments can be harsh and sometimes inflammatory, they don’t fit ordinary definitions of trolling. Someone in your position of power mis-using the term ‘troll’ against someone whose opinions you don’t like IS an attempt at suppression of free speech.

        As for rules of debate and defamation, most political blogs have very clear moderation of things that are potentially defammatory, because it is the blog owners that are legally liable for what they publish. Calling the police ‘pigs’ would not be considered a legally risky statement. Rules of debate vary from blog to blog, sometimes hugely, and I doubt that most academic institutions have any better idea of what those are than most newspaper journalists.

        Your ridiculing and marginalising of someone with Aspergers tells me more about you than the issues of the blog commentariat.

        Overall I find your piece to be full of inaccuracies and prejudices about the blogosphere. Blogs are here to stay, might be better if the MSM educated themselves on how they actually work.

        • thatguynz

          And what a surprise to see Pete George get his grubby little mitts in there too (the Herald comments). What a vile cretin he is.

        • lprent

          Nice comment – and more polite than I’d have done.

        • Rhinocrates

          Wow, Weka,

          that is just amazing. I’m probably blushing (meaning a whiter shade of pale, no doubt – I’ll have to go check in the mirror and listen to Procul Harum). As for everyone else below – too many to name – thank you very much also. Of course you’re sticking up for principles, which I admire.

          As for inflammatory, well, I’ve read far too much of Harlan Ellison not to love his style. Please check out the documentary Dreams With Sharp Teeth .

          • emergency mike

            And welcome back Rhino, I also seek out and value your comments. As much as I was appalled by Rudman’s offensive lowbrow article, I must say I got a good laugh from his repeated labeling of you as a tr0ll.

            Also laugh worthy was his parting “At least the Roast Busters didn’t hide behind anonymity,” shot. O fer sure, you could learn a thing or two from the RBers Rhino. Where’s my Tui? I hope you’re laughing too.

            • Rhinocrates

              I indulged in a mild chuckle. I’ve been called worse by better people, as… er, someone said. Pierre Trudeau, I think.

          • Tim

            Damn! There’s something I haven’t heard in a while – that album with the purple and grey cover!
            I’ve been away and hadn’t noticed your absence – but welcome back.

        • emergency mike

          Well said weka. What a pathetic article from Rudman.

        • Rogue Trooper

          I noted a significant number of comments supportive of Rhinocrates when I read the article this morning. “A toxic tr0l” was a bit inflammatory. ouch!

        • David H

          Yep Weka they made it in. Unlike mine for calling PG out for his Secret Squirrel name among his others

    • Tracey 11.3

      why was this newsworthy by rudman??? Do journos just read TS, KB and whale slick all day?

    • veutoviper 11.4

      I am disgusted at Rudman’s column. I had some respect for Rudman as a columnist prior to this one, although I did not necessarily always agree with his views.

      But this one is just over the top – particularly his attempts to ‘out’ the blogger. Thankfully, the majority of the comments to date do not support Rudman’s rave – or rather his emotive venom, as you so rightly called it, Karol.

      To the blogger, you have my support and I have always sought out your comments here when I see them pop up as I always found them well worth reading in terms of their content and your writing style – and for the most part, on the same wavelength as my thinking. Kia kaha.

      Edit – you said it much better than me, Bill.

      • Molly 11.4.1

        +100 Also a fan of the comments, and find them worth the time taken to read and ponder.
        Will be looking out for more of the same – hope they will be forthcoming.

        • veutoviper

          I agree re reading the comments, Molly – they often give a better indication than the column itself. And over the last few months, imo there has bee quite a sea change in the comments on the Herald.

          Re the comments on Rudman’s column, Weka’s excellent comment at 11.2.2. has not come up yet; but Emma Hart has a comment up now along the same vein.

          Edit – Pete George again shows the weasel he is in his comment.

        • Anne

          I still have a chuckle now and then over Rhino’s Shearer speech. Must have been six months ago now. He was sorting his supermarket list at the same time he was making a speech and of course he got the two muddled up. Hilarious it was. 🙂

    • fender 11.5

      Rudderless Rudman obviously doesn’t know what an internet tr0ll is, strange he didn’t mention how being called a jellyfish seemingly prompted the police commissioner to make a phone call, maybe it was a “I’m not a jellyfish, I’m a blind eel” call.

  11. Draco T Bastard 12

    It’s business that really rules us now

    Most of the scandals that leave people in despair about politics arise from this source. On Monday, for instance, the Guardian revealed that the government’s subsidy system for gas-burning power stations is being designed by an executive from the Dublin-based company ESB International, who has been seconded into the Department of Energy. What does ESB do? Oh, it builds gas-burning power stations.

    And how much of this jumping to do what the corporations want do we see in NZ? There’s the Warner Brothers legislation, the SkyCity sell out and the removal of democracy in Canterbury so that the farmers could get their hands on our precious water.

    • BLiP 12.1

      When you say “Warner Brothers’ Legislation:” were you referring to both the local labour and human rights legislation or were you referring to the wider, less explicit US spying legislation? Both, I guess.

      • Draco T Bastard 12.1.1

        I was specifically thinking of the change to our labour laws to please WB but I think you’re right in that the US spying legislation also applies.

  12. Tiger Mountain 13

    Brian Rudman often writes reasonable columns about local government and Auckland issues. He is an old fashioned ex Auckland Star journalist that talks to people and digs away for a story. But he is also old fashioned to the extent that he clearly does not understand internet anonymity.

    Regular posters with a handle build up an identity over time that others can relate to or sometimes not. It is what people are saying or linking to that matters not who they are. You can become quite loyal to some fellow bloggers and posters.

    Rudman should look over his shoulder because some of the worst anonymous contributors known to humankind are the NZ Herald editorial writers.

    • Colonial Viper 13.1

      But he is also old fashioned to the extent that he clearly does not understand internet anonymity.

      Likely true, but I also suspect that he has never been personally persecuted by some of the rather vengeful police tactics and attitudes that other people here have experienced.

      If he had, he might realise why pseudonymity is very valuable to some people in a serious democracy.

  13. this is an interview of russell brand..(in front of a live-audience..)

    ..recorded about 48 hrs ago..

    ..and it is a recommended-watch..


    phillip ure..

  14. veutoviper 15

    I decided to take a look at how Might Rive Power and Meridian shares were doing.

    Oh dear.

    MRP currently at $2.170 and Meridian at $1.025.

  15. greywarbler 16

    The Central Bank says that over- borrowing for farming especially dairying is putting the country’s economy at risk. Perhaps we can have some safeguards against the agricultural bubble, aka as a fart, by the government cutting down on overseas buyers and ensuring that all buyers don’t use leverage but have a decent deposit.

    And the meat industry is trying to rationalise the meat operators. There are about 20, most competing overseas, something long criticised because it results in unhealthy competition where we want best price not cheapest. Southland where meat production has been strong is converting to dairy at an alarming rate. Soon they won’t have enough supply to keep their local buyers and dealers viable. For heaven’s sake, before I die can NZ get its bloody meat economy in order. Before it gets to the stage where its an invalid, limping along and spreading sickness throughout the country.

    • Colonial Viper 16.1

      Annoying that people are starting to call the Reserve Bank, the Central Bank. I mean, wtf…it is the Reserve Bank…

    • Rogue Trooper 16.2

      Central Bank says “rising household indebtedness poses a risk if the financial sector comes under pressure” and “…will look at LVR exemptions…” despite Warwick Quinn advising that the new lending requirements are “choking off new building”- (30% drop-off).
      -Midday Report

    • Roflcopter 16.3

      Time for KiwiFarm, amiright?

      • Colonial Viper 16.3.1

        We already have KiwiFarm, and it looks after billions of dollars of very productive farm land, thank you very much.

  16. How would this Ernst and Young ‘inquiry’ have the power to find out if Sky City hotel room(s) were used in the Mayor Len Brown / Bevan Chaung affair, if Len Brown had no financial record/ Council documentation which proved it?


    Auckland Council CEO
    Doug McKay

    Dear Doug,

    ‘Open Letter’ re: Inquiry into Conduct of Mayor Len Brown


    Please confirm that the terms of reference of this ‘inquiry’ include an investigation into the alleged use of Sky City premises (namely hotel room(s) in the affair between Mayor Len Brown and Bevan Chuang.

    As an ‘anti-corruption’ Public Watchdog, I am primarily interested in knowing whether Sky City premises (namely hotel room(s), were used in the affair between Mayor Len Brown and Bevan Chuang.

    The issue of payment (who paid, how they were paid for, or if they were used without payment), although significant, is secondary (in my considered opinion).

    Please confirm that the alleged use Sky City premises (namely hotel room(s), will be covered by this ‘inquiry’, given that there may not be any evidence available from either Auckland Council documents or financial records.

    Can you please acknowledge receipt of this correspondence at your earliest available opportunity.

    Yours sincerely,

    Penny Bright

  17. karol 18

    NZ Herald’s live (and relatively uninformative, apart from evidence of obsessions with weather and the police desk) newsdesk blog to commemorate it’s anniversary, shows Armstrong to be a one-finger typist.

  18. The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 19

    Finlayson pwning Adern.

    • karol 19.1

      Finlayson just being abusive -how many times to he say something about “your thug union mates”?

  19. Tracey 20

    “Police are investigating seven sex attacks around a leisure complex in Manukau over the last two months.

    The assaults took place in and around the Manukau Sports Bowl and the Gardens/Totara Park area.

    One of the victims was aged 13.

    “We are concerned about these types of incidents due to the nature and frequency of offending in these areas,” said Detective Senior Sergeant Darrell Harpur.

    “The latest occurrence was in broad daylight at a public playground. We urge people in the area to be vigilant and accompany their children to local playgrounds.”

    When is it too soon to send out the warning? After the first assault/rape? The second, or 2 months after the first and after number 7?

  20. gobsmacked 21

    Opposition MPs – lift your game!

    When Key tells lies in Parliament, is there not one single MP who is smart enough and quick-witted enough to challenge him?

    Three – yes, 3 – times in a couple of minutes of Question Time Key mocked the asset sales referendum by claiming that Labour and the Greens had “arrogantly” ignored the smacking referendum when they were in power.

    Not one MP asked “Who was in power at the time of the referendum?” “Did you support or oppose the law?” “Did you change the law or keep it?” etc, etc.

    No challenge at all, just lots of brain-dead shouting. He rewrites history in the most brazen, mendacious way, and you sit there like fools.

    (sure, plenty of people immediately tweeted the obvious rejoinders, but what use is that? Any of us can do that, you are the ones there, being PAID to do a job. THINK on your feet. Wake up!).

    This has been going on for years. Cunliffe is doing better than Shearer (a low bar, admittedly), but overall the opposition are still failing. Key was acting like a drunken madman today, and you let him. Yet again.

    • karol 21.1

      Yes, I was amazed at Key’s bald faced lies on the smacking referendum.

      Cunliffe got onto it in the General Debate – but slow off the mark.

      • gobsmacked 21.1.1

        Yes, they often catch up in the general debate. When Key is no longer there, and the media are no longer watching.

        It’s like trying to “win” an election debate in the spin room, after you’ve lost on live TV. It does very little good.

    • Draco T Bastard 21.2

      Question 1

      Quite a bit of the opposition trying to pull Key up on his re-writing of history. The Speaker didn’t seem to impressed.

      • karol 21.2.1

        I think gs’s point is that the opposition to Key’s lies need to be expressed in very pointed supplementary questions, not just via heckling.

  21. Puckish Rogue 22

    Clare Curran said that every man and his dog knew the price Chorus could charge for use of its copper network would be slashed substantially by the Commerce Commission.

    But as the NBR points out (paywall), Curran is now trying to reinvent history. Despite her now claiming she always knew the copper price would drop, back in 2011 she actually said the copper price would increase:

    “The people of New Zealand who are receiving broadband services will find their existing copper services go up in price while they are waiting for fibre.”

    Cunliffe said in 2011:

    “The objective analysis we have seen…is that the average New Zealander will pay at least $5 more a month for the same service they are currently getting on their copper phone line.”

    Parker also chipped in with similar comments.

    Nice work Clare Curran…

    • framu 22.1

      while im no fan of clare curran – the copper pricing thing wasnt really a surprise to anyone, especially chorus and the govt

      the fact that copper prices were high, and expected to come down by force or free will has been on the cards for years

      so stick it to CC all you want – but please dont let govt and industry players who did know about this off the hook at the same time

      • McFlock 22.1.1

        Um – the only site that has that CC ‘quote’ is the greasy cetacean.

        At best that’s almost certainly not exactly what she said. At worst it’s up there with the edited Jim Anderton – earthquake vid.

        But then, the PR is probably paid by the quantity of cross-postings from tory propaganda sites, not the quality.

  22. Rogue Trooper 23

    Ships of the desert ; MERS updates.


  23. greywarbler 24

    From The Local Europe. Sound familiar. The free market at work eh?

    Top 10: bargain properties in Italy
    Property prices in Italy fell by almost 12 percent in 2012, triggering a rise in foreign investment as buyers take advantage of a market where locals are struggling to get on the property ladder. With the help of estate agents, The Local has drawn up a list of where the bargain properties are to be found.

  24. greywarbler 25

    Sweden feels the lack of father’s moral care too. From the Local – Swededn.

    Sweden ‘failed to protect’ shower girl: court
    The Swedish legal system failed to protect a 14-year-old girl whose stepfather, who was acquitted in Sweden, covertly filmed her naked in the shower according to a ruling by the European Court of Human Rights

  25. Anne 26

    Oh dear, it looks like a Cold War type paranoia maybe rearing its ugly head again.


    My father was subjected to surveillance and other unpleasant covert type activities in the 1970s after some bureaucratic idiots jumped to some wrong conclusions about his retirement activities. Rather long story, and it’s still debatable whether the idiots were local or attached to an off-shore agency. They were all running around each others’ territory in those days because they didn’t have the electronic technology that is available today.

  26. jcuknz 27

    If you wonder why I have voted National for the past couple of elections this may give you a clue despite having been converted from nothing in particular to socialism by Bill Sutch’s ‘The Responsible Society’, and then later by Roger Douglas’s ‘Common Sense’ ….. First published at KB but here it might do more good?

    OH DEAR BOO HOO Poor first home buyers cannot be expected to find $80T deposit for their $400T new home. What a load of left wing c..p.
    Admittedly there is been inflation in the past fifty years but my first home was 60 years old maybe more and after building a new house in the backyard with the valuable assistance of my wife [ while I still worked a 40 hour week and wife kept house and raised our son ] it was demolished. A junior football team did it Saturday morning to raise money for a trip out of town.
    Cost $2000 to buy it … total mortgage $5000 plus income to build it after we started showing we were serious to first my lawyer and then a bank. Then for fittings we had a TV and a small fridge which I had brought to the marraige from the mobile caravan I had been living in, no car until after house was completed.

    Really I am crying hard for the poor stupid sods and the political leaders trying to make hay out of the first home people wanting to waltz into a brand new house along with all the fittings to keep up with the jonses …. not to consider the impact of forecast interest increases on such large loans. No doubt that will be the next bleeding heart story of a couple of years time.
    I remember the smug feeling back in the 70′s when interest rates were in double figures and I only had to pay on perhaps $4000 thanks to the hard work of my wife and I.

    thankyou for the space …..

    • Colonial Viper 27.1

      >40 year old well capitalised buyers are blocking out or price gouging <40 year old first home buyers.

      Your comment is a beautiful demonstration of how out of touch your demographic is in its role here.

      • jcuknz 27.1.1

        I wrote in the hope that it might invoke some common sense here and in the market place rather than sppeal to the mentally locked … oh well another time.
        One can hope it saves some from mortaging their lives to the banks.

    • karol 27.2

      Don’t ask me? i’m a renter and have never had any desire to own property…. and I’m a leftie.

      What is this obsession with property ownership?

      • jcuknz 27.2.1

        The problem is the obsession with the second and third house as investment though understandable when one considers the unreliability of the share market … the first house is just the first step to becoming a capitalist apart from those such as myself who are happy with just a roof over my head.

    • millsy 27.3

      Didnt they have things like Housing Corp mortagages, and family benefit capitalisations, and so on?

      And I bet you voted for the government that got rid of them. Typical ladder puller.

  27. Huginn 28

    From the Financial Times
    This is one of the outcomes of the Libor scandal. They are looking at the Australian dollar, but this has to affect he Kiwi is one of he most actively traded currencies in the world

    Biggest banks face forex probe questions
    By Daniel Schäfer and Caroline Binham

    The global probe into foreign exchange manipulation has widened to include 15 of the world’s biggest banks and some of the most actively traded currencies, as lenders scramble to help authorities in exchange for leniency.


    • Huginn 28.1

      “Before Libor, people thought benchmarks could be trusted. Now there’s a presumption that there’s a risk of manipulation. Perhaps manipulation is not the exception but the rule.”

      • Colonial Viper 28.1.1

        Yes, it is the rule. Countries and pension funds have been going broke because of this and other banking scams.

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