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Open mike 13/11/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:56 am, November 13th, 2014 - 264 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

The Standard is not a conspiracy – just a welcome outlet for the expression of views. Leaders that command respect will not be undermined by this.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

264 comments on “Open mike 13/11/2014 ”

    • les 1.1

      rigged markets just accepted as a fact of life these days…a fine here and there,but nothing criminal…look at LIBOR!The irony is that the very people who caused the GFC are still playing the same game,and NZ is lucky enough to have one of the players as P.M.

    • AsleepWhileWalking 1.2

      If you are interested in our monetary system I’d avoid Bloomberg and Reuters entirely.

      Better information:
      Mike Maloney
      GATA.org (manily deals with outright manipulation in metals markets but regardless of if a government is the perpetrator it is still fraud)

      Essential reading (on Bloomburg but couldn’t bring myself to link to a propaganda site)

    • vto 1.3

      Yes, well the most rigged market in New Zealand is the building market. Our business has some exposure to it here in Chch and the cartel that is Fletchers and Carters, plus Holcim (cement) is obscene and I would like to know where the Commerce Commission is ….

      We have higher building costs here because of the Fletchers cartel. It is extreme. It costs every single one of us each and every day.

      example – Fletchers cut a tree here and sell the premium cuts in Australia for one-third the price of the secondary cuts sold to us plebs in NZ. Fact. Get ya head around it – we are being ripped completely..

      .. timber, cement/concrete, plasterboard, most all supplies, the list is extensive

      • rawshark-yeshe 1.3.1

        and let’s include our locally grown food and export prices as well .. we must surely be the most ‘self ripped-off’ country in the world ! ie Whole Foods in California sells NZ cheddar for almost half of what we are coerced into paying.

        We pay premium price for seconds left over after export in all our fresh produce.

        And why, oh why, is it cheaper for most ethnic restaurants and takeaways to buy imported farmed Vietnamese catfish sold as basa ? We export all our best fish at highest international prices and we are left to eat farmed fish from the Mekong River !!

        Not a Tui moment, more of a series of vulture moments imho.


      • RedLogix 1.3.2

        Now go checkout Fletchers shareholder list again vto.

        • vto

          Well that is illuminating isn’t it.

          47% owned by our very own Reserve Bank (ripping us – wtf..)
          rest mostly other private banks and funds

          Is this why the Commerce Commission is so useless?

          • Ad

            Have been loving the US regulatory fines against banks in the last year.

            Probably needs its own post, but Labour and Greens need to figure out how to work with the NZ and AU banks in New Zealand’s interests.
            – regulation, fines, taxes
            – public sector banking business
            – RBA reform including currency trading limits
            – preferential banks for affordable housing
            – Auckland-only deposit limits
            – a maximum wage? Maximum bonus regulation?
            – growing more cooperative banks?
            – Kiwibank and NZSuperfund relationship

            That kind of stuff

          • nadis

            Calm down, take a breath. Fletchers is not owned by the Reserve Bank. RBNZ owns the custodial system. The real owners of Fletchers have an account on the custodial system. Likewise all the other holders like JP MorganNominees, HSBC Custody etc. They are nnot the beneficial owners. They are just custodians working on behalf of the real owners. In the old days the registry would be a ledger maintained by the company. Now it is an electronic system maintained by banks and in our case including the RBNZ.

            You can actually look through the registries and find individual owners – these need to be disclosed. For insrtance ACC owns 2.9%, AMP owns 4.9%, Vanguard 1.7%, Milford Asset Mgmt 0.3% etc.

            No conspiracy around the RBNZ. I can guarantee they beneficially own exactly zero Fletcher Building shares.

            • vto

              yeah I’m sure that’s right….. too quick to the keyboard at times ……

              • nadis

                happy to help. there are plenty of conspiracies without having to invent any : )

                • William

                  I’ve come across this with other companies.
                  The question I’ve never found an answer to is why the ownership is structured that way. Why don’t the individual owners just trade their shares openly? The NZX is supposedly into transparency.
                  Presumably the RB clips the ticket on every transaction, so it should be cheaper to own directly.

                  • Colonial Rawshark

                    I suspect the main reason it is held in the RBNZ’s custodial system is to use that aspect of the NZ Govt as some sort of litigation shield.

                    • greywarshark

                      Could that RSB custodial ownership have some advantage in being a sort of collateral to the eternal borrowing we do to keep our financial system going?

                      Perhaps it helps us to look stable enough to keep our credit rating at a certain level that will result in a saller interest rate internationally?

                    • Colonial Rawshark

                      That’s not a bad theory at all GW. Having those shares (assets) held in custody by the RBNZ may add some kind of extra value to them in terms of assets for hypothecation and re-hypothecation.

                      (jargon term noted – transforming into collateral/security with which to back ever riskier financial instruments and financial bets).

    • Wairua 1.4

      .. in a broader context

      A NEW paper by Emmanuel Saez of the University of California, Berkeley, and Gabriel Zucman of the London School of Economics suggests that, in America at least, inequality in wealth is approaching record levels. The authors examine the share of total wealth held by the bottom 90% of families relative to those at the very top. In the late 1920s the bottom 90% held just 16% of America’s wealth—considerably less than that held by the top 0.1%, which controlled a quarter of total wealth just before the crash of 1929. From the beginning of the Depression until well after the end of the second world war, the middle class’s share of total wealth rose steadily, thanks to collapsing wealth among richer households, broader equity ownership, middle-class income growth and rising rates of home-ownership. From the early 1980s, however, these trends have reversed. The top 0.1% (consisting of 160,000 families worth $73m on average) hold 22% of America’s wealth, just shy of the 1929 peak—and almost the same share as the bottom 90% of the population.


    • Tracey 1.5

      Isnt there a bunch of fines being dished out to big banks for breaches of currency trading rules?

      This is of course the environment our PM made his money…

      “…Traders with nicknames like the “Three Musketeers” and the “A-Team” plotted over Internet chat rooms to manipulate currency markets for years, profiting at the expense of clients – and then congratulating themselves for their brilliance – regulators said, as they fined five banks $US3.4 billion.

      Using profanity-laced banter, the traders coordinated their financial positions in the multi-trillion dollar currency market, securing profits for those inside their circles.

      “YESsssssssssss,” one of them wrote in a chat message. “Yeah baby” and “nice work gents….I don my hat,” wrote others, according to documents of their exchanges.

      Citibank, JPMorgan Chase, Royal Bank of Scotland, HSBC Bank and UBS agreed to settlements totalling almost $3.4 billion, according to the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission, UK Financial Conduct Authority and Swiss Financial Market Supervisory Authority. The British regulator said Barclays Bank remains under investigation. …” nz herald today

      • Colonial Rawshark 1.5.1

        Plenty of fines are being dished out to the big banks…who treat them as a cost of doing business that is accounted for. A $1B fine resulting from the way $10B worth of profits was made- sounds like a good deal.

        There have been zero prosecutions of let alone jail time for, big banking executives whose firms participated in this malfeasance under their direction.

        Yet some poor sap who steals $100 from a 24 hour store is likely to be put in jail for months if not years. Or shot.

    • Murray Rawshark 1.6

      This is disgusting stuff and says that Obama’s hand picked Attorney General protected some of the worst criminals in history. No wonder Key the conman bankster gets along so well with O’Bomber. They can laugh about the billions stolen from American workers and about how well Key is doing it to us. Then Key can tell his joke about murdering pedophile lunch guests. That’ll slay them all at the G20.


  1. Manuka AOR 2

    Privatising the Police Force?

    “Ratepayer-funded police patrols have been pitched as a possible solution to spiralling anti-social behaviour in central Hamilton. But in order for that to become reality, the law may have to be changed to provide for a “private police force” to patrol the city centre. ” http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/63145233/Pay-cops-to-patrol-inner-city

    • miravox 2.1


      They’re thinking of a private police force, paid for by ratepayers (who already pay tax nationally for policing) as part of a plan to eliminate homelessness?

      The solution doesn’t fit the problem. This is completely irrational and duplicitous.

      They want the ratepayer to pay for private police force to move the homeless out of public space that affects businesses. That’s all.

      • vto 2.1.1

        Just ban the homeless – that will teach the lazy shits

        job done

        (sorry, been listening to nat supporters too much lately)

      • RedBaronCV 2.1.2

        The police are not short of resources. In a suburb not too far from here, family residential there were 6 cops and the booze take your DNA bus at 6 pm on a Tues evening breath testing. Sod all cars and those that came thr’ had just come down the motorway anyway – it was just ludicrous. And they have the time to raid Nicky Hager, Kim Dotcom – perhaps they need to get their priorites straight.

    • Draco T Bastard 2.2

      Back many years ago the councils did provide their own police and traffic forces. Having a single state police force is a relatively new phenomenon.

      • TheContrarian 2.2.1

        When did councils provide their own police?

        How new are state police forces?

        • Draco T Bastard

          NZ Police

          From the police force’s beginnings in 1840 through the next forty years, policing arrangements varied around New Zealand. Whilst the nationally organised Armed Constabulary split its efforts between regular law enforcement functions and militia support to the land wars, some provinces desired local police forces of their own. This led to a separate Provincial Police Force Act being passed by the Parliament. However, provincial policing models lasted only two decades as economic depression in the 1870s saw some provinces stop paying their police as they ran out of money.

          Although I recall that the Henderson Borough Council and/or Waitakere City (and I’m sure a few others) did have their own police force in the 1980s as they weren’t getting enough policing from the state police. This was promptly stepped on by the central government.

          I was wrong about the relatively new bit.

          • Murray Rawshark

            Are you sure you’re thinking about council police in the 80s, and not traffic cops?

            • Draco T Bastard

              Could have been traffic. That was pretty much my teen years so I wasn’t paying much attention to politics in the 80s.

    • adam 2.3

      God I hope so – pay cops = good. Then the populace can see what they really are – paid for thugs, enforcing the will of the elites.

    • minarch 2.4

      Privatising the Police Force?

      good god its like a randroid/libertard wet dream ,

      Ive posted this before but its probably appropriate

      a libertarian fantasy story

      ( not written by me)

      I was shooting heroin and reading “The Fountainhead” in the front seat of my privately owned police cruiser when a call came in. I put a quarter in the radio to activate it. It was the chief.

      “Bad news, detective. We got a situation.”

      “What? Is the mayor trying to ban trans fats again?”

      “Worse. Somebody just stole four hundred and forty-seven million dollars’ worth of bitcoins.”

      The heroin needle practically fell out of my arm. “What kind of monster would do something like that? Bitcoins are the ultimate currency: virtual, anonymous, stateless. They represent true economic freedom, not subject to arbitrary manipulation by any government. Do we have any leads?”

      “Not yet. But mark my words: we’re going to figure out who did this and we’re going to take them down … provided someone pays us a fair market rate to do so.”

      “Easy, chief,” I said. “Any rate the market offers is, by definition, fair.”

      He laughed. “That’s why you’re the best I got, Lisowski. Now you get out there and find those bitcoins.”

      “Don’t worry,” I said. “I’m on it.”

      I put a quarter in the siren. Ten minutes later, I was on the scene. It was a normal office building, strangled on all sides by public sidewalks. I hopped over them and went inside.

      “Home Depot™ Presents the Police!®” I said, flashing my badge and my gun and a small picture of Ron Paul. “Nobody move unless you want to!” They didn’t.

      “Now, which one of you punks is going to pay me to investigate this crime?” No one spoke up.

      “Come on,” I said. “Don’t you all understand that the protection of private property is the foundation of all personal liberty?”

      It didn’t seem like they did.

      “Seriously, guys. Without a strong economic motivator, I’m just going to stand here and not solve this case. Cash is fine, but I prefer being paid in gold bullion or autographed Penn Jillette posters.”

      Nothing. These people were stonewalling me. It almost seemed like they didn’t care that a fortune in computer money invented to buy drugs was missing.

      I figured I could wait them out. I lit several cigarettes indoors. A pregnant lady coughed, and I told her that secondhand smoke is a myth. Just then, a man in glasses made a break for it.

      “Subway™ Eat Fresh and Freeze, Scumbag!®” I yelled.

      Too late. He was already out the front door. I went after him.

      “Stop right there!” I yelled as I ran. He was faster than me because I always try to avoid stepping on public sidewalks. Our country needs a private-sidewalk voucher system, but, thanks to the incestuous interplay between our corrupt federal government and the public-sidewalk lobby, it will never happen.

      I was losing him. “Listen, I’ll pay you to stop!” I yelled. “What would you consider an appropriate price point for stopping? I’ll offer you a thirteenth of an ounce of gold and a gently worn ‘Bob Barr ’08’ extra-large long-sleeved men’s T-shirt!”

      He turned. In his hand was a revolver that the Constitution said he had every right to own. He fired at me and missed. I pulled my own gun, put a quarter in it, and fired back. The bullet lodged in a U.S.P.S. mailbox less than a foot from his head. I shot the mailbox again, on purpose.

      “All right, all right!” the man yelled, throwing down his weapon. “I give up, cop! I confess: I took the bitcoins.”

      “Why’d you do it?” I asked, as I slapped a pair of Oikos™ Greek Yogurt Presents Handcuffs® on the guy.

      “Because I was afraid.”


      “Afraid of an economic future free from the pernicious meddling of central bankers,” he said. “I’m a central banker.”

      I wanted to coldcock the guy. Years ago, a central banker killed my partner. Instead, I shook my head.

      “Let this be a message to all your central-banker friends out on the street,” I said. “No matter how many bitcoins you steal, you’ll never take away the dream of an open society based on the principles of personal and economic freedom.”

      He nodded, because he knew I was right. Then he swiped his credit card to pay me for arresting him.

    • Murray Rawshark 2.5

      Police have been accepting funding (bribes?) from companies for years, and indulging in a bit of uneven policing. I remember trying to stop demolition of some old houses in Newton, while people were still in them. Ngati poaka were fairly neutral until the developer responsible donated them a community office on Queen St.

      And how lovely to see Dave McPherson, ex Maoist Workers’ Communist League bureaucrat, promoting this wonderful idea.

  2. Paul 3

    Looks like the economy is heading for troubled times in 2015.
    I just hope this does not turn into more land sales to overseas owners.
    I hope we think of cleverer ways of running an economy than relying on milk solids.


    “Fonterra payout in spotlight”

    “Fonterra Co-operative Group shareholders used their annual meeting in Palmerston North to raise concerns over the reduced 2015 milk payout, the dairy giant’s forecasting and the way the milk price is set.

    The forecast milk price it pays farmers was slashed in September from $6 per kilogram of milk solids to $5.30/kgMS plus an additional dividend payment of between 25c to 35c per kg of milk solids. It comes on the back of a record $8.50 total payout last season.

    Shareholders yesterday expressed concern this season’s payout could go below the $5 mark given the continuing volatility in world markets.:Fonterra Co-operative Group shareholders used their annual meeting in Palmerston North to raise concerns over the reduced 2015 milk payout, the dairy giant’s forecasting and the way the milk price is set.

    The forecast milk price it pays farmers was slashed in September from $6 per kilogram of milk solids to $5.30/kgMS plus an additional dividend payment of between 25c to 35c per kg of milk solids. It comes on the back of a record $8.50 total payout last season.

    Shareholders yesterday expressed concern this season’s payout could go below the $5 mark given the continuing volatility in world markets”

    • Janice 3.1

      I have typed farm budgets from time to time over the last few years. Most of these farmers are budgeting on a milk solids price of $6.00kg (some higher). The banks then lend on these budgets (only concerned that their interest is covered). There are going to be a lot of hungry cows out there come April as these farmers will not be able to purchase supplementary feed as the banks won’t want to lend the money to purchase at this payout. Yes a lot more land will be sold overseas and to the local rich.

    • Draco T Bastard 3.2

      I just hope this does not turn into more land sales to overseas owners.

      Of course there will be. It is, after all, this government’s Raison d’être to sell out NZ as fast as possible.

    • Marksman33 3.3

      I’m sure I heard on the rural news today at lunchtime, a farm near Morrinsville sold for 5.8 million bucks, making it the most expensive per hectare piece of land ever sold in NZ.I think the farm was somewhere around the 70 or 80 hectare mark.Astoundingly it was sold to a local farmer, milk shares were included. Some cockies still got plenty of money.

  3. les 4

    excerpt from a book on Africa…’examples abound of the elites greedy grab for assets.As for housing in Luanda,blocks of flats built in the 1950’s and 60’s to house the poor,were seized by the party bosses,sold to themselves,the poor evicted,the flats done up and rented for up to $2000 a month’.

  4. I like that the comet landing was successful – very sci fi looking at the headlines in the MSM and seeing that one. The song is very interesting (as are the comments 🙂 ). Humans, we are a paradox, I hope we can keep our shit together…


  5. Molly 6

    I see that Audrey Young is hard at work – distracting and redirecting with a cute animal story.

    I know that many of us see this as typical PR work, but we need some kind of media deconstruction similar to John Oliver or Trews to make the dismantling of this kind of puff piece commonplace.

  6. ‘Power to the people’ – nice article by John Minto

    As inequality rises further and New Zealand becomes more divided and polarised it will be workers taking action like this that gets results. Waiting for elections and hoping for change just won’t cut it.
    It’s a simple case of Power to the People!


    I agree with John there – waiting for elections to solve everything just won’t cut it – we have to make it happen!!!

    • Manuka AOR 7.1

      “waiting for elections to solve everything just won’t cut it – we have to make it happen!!!”

      Yes. We do.

      “Forsgren signed his agreement to these demands for workers to be treated with dignity and respect… It’s usually the workers on the receiving end from profit-hungry bosses but here the tables were turned by the workers taking direct action and being backed up by their union.”

    • Draco T Bastard 7.2

      Yep, it’s us that will change things not the rich or even the elected representatives as they only represent the rich nowadays any way.

  7. Manuka AOR 8

    The Internet of Plants – Interesting article on BBC Earth
    “Hidden under your feet is an information superhighway that allows plants to communicate and help each other out. ”

    “It’s an information superhighway that speeds up interactions between a large, diverse population of individuals. It allows individuals who may be widely separated to communicate and help each other out. But it also allows them to commit new forms of crime.” http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141111-plants-have-a-hidden-internet

    • Chooky 8.1

      Manuka AOR +100.. thanks for that !….I have always liked that idea ( ie that trees and plants and trees communicated) and believed it as a child

      ….it is an old idea now given scientific validity…..and it is Pagan…and very Gaia ….and Primal Religion ie the life force and the Gods are within everything …as in the Maori God of the forest Tane and the other Gods of the Natural World

      “At the centre of Māori religion were the atua or gods. In Māori belief the natural and supernatural worlds were one – there was no Māori word for religion”.


      “Ents are a race of beings in J. R. R. Tolkien’s fantasy world Middle-earth who closely resemble trees. They are similar to the talking trees in folklore around the world. Their name is derived from the Anglo-Saxon word for giant”


      At the macro level the ‘Gaia Hypothesis’ by James Lovelock… gave the Pagan idea that the Mother Earth is alive and everything is inter-related scientific validity


      • Chooky 8.1.1

        btw…Prince Charles believes plants talk…and has done so for a very long time!




        Is Prince Charles a Pagan ? !

        (….and smirk…where does this leave the Anglican Church? …is it going to go Pagan also?)

        • alwyn

          “Prince Charles believes plants talk”
          I thought that Prince Charles believed that you should talk TO plants, not that they talk to you? That made them thrive.
          Actually I was once offered, by a child, one arguable reason why that might work. If you are near to them when you talk the idea was that would increase the amount of CO2 in the air around the plant. More CO2 should encourage growth by the plant.
          It left me unable to say, of the top of my head, whether it made any sense at all, although I couldn’t see that it could possibly have a detectable effect.
          “Out of the mouths of babes …”

          • Chooky

            ok ..yes he talks to the plants…but presumably they are able to communicate ie understand ( and talk back in plant-talk or tree talk …”eerie sounds” if only you had the ears/psyche to hear ) …smirk …like me-ow cat talk…cats can hear things we can’t ( and now you will think i am completely barmy like Prince Charles…as long as I am not “barking mad” as John Key called a certain Greenie…but I am in good company and John Key is NOT!

            • Rodel

              Don’t mind religious people talking to god. It’s when they reckon god talks to them that I worry.

              Don’t even mind prince jug-ears talking to plants. But if & when he says they talk back then I’ll really worry.

              After all he could soon be my king!

        • minarch

          when your as inbred as the Saxe-Coburg-Gothas (the Windsors to you commoners ) you probably believe all sorts of weird shit….

          and since no-one EVER disagrees with you it will mostly stick …

          • Chooky

            ” weird shit”… maybe to you …but Prince Charles with his belief in networking and communication with and in the natural environment is in good company with the environmentalist Greenies , the New Age Pagans, Primal indigenous peoples around the world and Gaian symbiosis scientists like former NASA scientist James Lovelock…and biologist Lynn Margulis

            “In general, and in contrast to neo-Darwinism, Margulis holds that “Life did not take over the globe by combat, but by networking” (Margulis and Sagan 1986)—in other words, more by cooperation than via Darwinian competition.”


          • Rodel

            yeah But do the plants talk in English or German?

  8. TheContrarian 9

    Fuck yeah – science….the last 5 years have been awesome for cosmology/astronomy

  9. Tracey 10

    congrats to nz and brazil police, interpol… I wonder what it has cost all those groups to tidy this mess.

    Yesterday the correction minister said we need a review… Why not save time and money and just implement the fucking 2012 recommendations…

    • Murray Rawshark 10.1

      Smith was caught because there’d been an item on Brazilian tv about him. Someone staying in the same youth hostel rang the police. By the time he was back at the station, the $10,200 had disappeared. The arresting police will be having a great Christmas. In 2003 they took $30,000 off a Chinese Brazilian at the Rio airport departure. He was subsequently tortured to death in the same prison that Smith is apparently going to. Smith’s sense of superiority might be slightly battered by now.

      What this does do is show that the stories of him joining up with an international pedophile ring was all police hype. Kiwis stand out like dog’s balls in Rio, and not speaking Portuguese would be a real drawback. It also shows that he’s not quite the master of disguise they told us about.

  10. Chooky 11

    From Nanaia Mahuta to Labour Supporters:

    Teenaa Koe

    We finished the membership husting meetings in South Auckland last night and it is clear that we need to make necessary changes to become Government. Members have identified a number of issues that must be addressed to restore trust and earn the confidence of voters.

    We must commit to getting our House in order:

    Under my leadership there will be a clear expectation that our sole objective is to promote the values and policies of our Labour Party. We need to utilize the diverse skill set of our caucus and continue to modernise our party organisation and fundraising capacity to be campaign ready for 2017.
    The perception of factional interests is not helpful to our cause and it is my view that greater accountability between that Parliamentary and Party Wings will be required in order to achieve greater discipline. Our LECs may well have a constructive role in this process. We will need to change the way in which caucus operates and the external response should be that we are fresh, energized and reaching out to people, communities and stakeholder groups in different ways.
    The benchmark for success should be a change in external perception about the way we are presenting as a Party that is in step with the lives of ordinary New Zealanders who seek a fair go.

    We must review our Policies:

    Our Party has a robust policy development process. We need to define the ideas that will help make New Zealand a better place to live, raise children and support economic growth.
    I believe that our point of difference is that in standing up for a fair and decent society we champion the need to reduce inequality. We will advocate towards an inclusive economy that will go hand in hand with caring for the environment and working for those who are most vulnerable. We can show that our point of difference is that in upholding the value of fairness, we will ensure that the ladder of aspiration and opportunity is there for everyone as they move from one rung to the next and we will not pull it up or leave anyone behind.
    We must put People and Communities First
    Our strength has always been connected to our working class origins and our grass-roots approach in relating to people. We have a proud legacy and we can redefine our relevance to workers and people in the productive sector as we seek to earn the confidence of more New Zealanders.
    We can utilise the next three years to get alongside and engage with community, business, iwi, industry, education, health and social sector organisations to listen and respond to the issues that require new solutions.
    We must be a strong and constructive voice in Opposition
    Members were unanimous in their expectation that we must be relentless in holding the Government to account. We need to push for accountability and transparency in decision-making and not associate with the tactics that have brought all politicians into disrepute.
    I believe that we cannot be distracted by the politics of personality and must be focused on the issues that will lift outcomes for ordinary people.
    The measure of our success will be when people are talking about our ideas and solutions and criticising the lack of action by the Government.

    The Way Forward:

    I have discerned that members are confronting the choice of leader with sober reflection. We are in unchartered waters, our Party vote has declined since 2005 when Labour was accused of no longer listening and therefore could not be trusted. While I have some personal insight into this time, like the effects of decisions in the 1980’s we either learn from past mistakes or we are doomed to repeat them.
    I believe that we can make the necessary changes to clear the way and move forward. Your support means that you have determined to change from the old style of politics towards this approach.

    Thank You

  11. amirite 12

    Not saying that the decile rating/funding of schools is perfect but I fear that it’ll be replaced with something even worse, knowing Parata’s modus operandi. And why is it that people who earn a lot and can afford to live in expensive areas then expect to be paying the same for the education of their children as people in poorer areas?


    • Chooky 12.1

      we should go back to before ‘Tomorrow’s Schools’ ….when even ‘poor’ areas had high quality State schooling ..the State funded a School Inspectorate which evaluated teachers and schools on a regular basis and State Schools were funded properly by the State ….teachers moved around …and schools and teacher appointments were run by professional educators and Boards , not parents…We should follow the Finland model not the USA model

      • greywarshark 12.1.1

        @ Chooky
        I’ve wondered about that system. The Inspector was someone to be concerned about, which if introduced again might change the present emphasis of some very picky principals riding teachers. Good relationships are not the norm at some schools. The principal seems to be more interested in their performance being measured than encouraging good teaching and teachers. And then the Board may be more picky than the managing Department. It could be unsatisfactory though, dealing with the Dept, so perhaps that would need to be improved with more leeway given.

        • Chooky

          in the present system you can have crazy parents riding the principal or certain teachers…and being the cause of very good teachers and principals leaving …or conversely certain parents protecting a very bad principal from accountability ….and whole schools have gone into meltdown….lost up to two thirds of the school roll before any outside intervention with Statutory managers……who have then sacked the principal after much damage and disruption…also you can have principals establishing fiefdoms of supporting bad parents and staying long past their effective use by date …poor schools struggle and it leads to flight to schools in higher socioeconomic areas

          …the whole system is a shambles imo….and has paved the way for underfunding State education and over funding Charter Schools which will then be privatised like prisons…privatised Charter Schools in the USA generally do not do as well as well funded State Schools and they often pick and chose students…and often the teachers in Charter Schools are not qualified

          …better to go the Finland way ….highly trained professional teachers, well funded and professionally run State Education

          • greywarshark

            @ Chooky
            It seems as if you have been keeping tabs on it. I have heard bits and read bits that substantiate what you have just said.

            I would think twice about anything that comes out of the USA at present. Which feeling has to be squashed as it is a too-sweeping prejudice but it is a contrast to the unequivocal acceptance I always used to have of the USA. Things have changed there, and looking to them just because they have good seminars there, have English as a first language, are examples of a dull mind and groupthink on the past by the education crowd and the pollies.

      • Rodel 12.1.2

        Tomorrow’s schools was Lange’s greatest cock up.
        NZ had a professionally managed education system before he contracted an obscure nobody ( a corporate manager type) called Picot to reorganize everything.
        Inspectors were a pain but at least they went into classrooms in attempts to see what was happening, unlike the present EROS who just look at spurious paperwork and probably never see a teacher working.
        The previous system of Education boards as elected representatives managing and employing professionals and the Ministry doing the governance bit worked well with some inefficiencies.

        Having got rid of John Banks we still have Parata-and wotsisnoname from ACT making decisions.
        Do you have a link to the Finland model?

  12. The Lone Haranguer 13

    I just read the article by Chris Trotter regarding the Labour leadership candidates and party democracy.

    And on here, I regularly hear about neo-Lib this and neo-Lib that and then a lot of gnashing of teeth follows. Actually, its a proven recipe.

    So Ive been thinking…..

    What would have happened if the “third way” polys (Clark Mallard Cullen etc) didnt get their way? Where would we be then?

    Douglas did his stage one, but never got to stage two. So we do not know if his ideas ever might have worked. If he had got to stage two, it would either have been the panacea for all that ills nations (yay everyone wins) or it would have been a hopeless failure (boo, change directions now).

    The stage one pain was intense (24% on the third mortgage hurt us) and maybe the stage two would have been no better. But if Labour had let it go that far, then the neo-Lib experiment would have been put to bed, and we wouldnt have had 30 years of it.

    Other countries were watching. Had the Douglas experiment failed miserably, the only talk of neo-Lib would be i online history blogs.

    Just a thought 🙂

    • greywarshark 13.1

      @ The Lone Cowboy
      But it did fail miserably didn’t it – at only stage 2.
      Someone put up a mention of what some austrian economist (not Hayek) actually said about theories. He emphasised that they were not based on reality. A whole lot of what- ifs. Song – “I don’t believe in if any more.”

      • The Lone Haranguer 13.1.1

        No Douglas & co did stage one, and claimed it needed to be in conjunction with stage two, which was never implemented.

        So they always have the “out” that it was unfinished business. So the subsequent Governments both here and around the world carried on with the stage one experiment until 2008 and the GFC.

        At that stage there were other options and Governments around the World chose to protect banks rather than their customers. Had the Governments underwritten the customers and written off the equity in the banks, then we woudnt have
        the bankers setting the agenda today

        An opportunity lost.

    • Murray Rawshark 13.2

      See 2.4 above. That’s stage 2.

  13. Draco T Bastard 14

    Printing money to fund deficit is the fastest way to raise rates (Adair Turner, FT)

    Printing money to fund deficit is the fastest way to raise rates and there are no technical reasons for rejecting this, only the fear of breaking a taboo, writes Lord Adair Turner in Financial Times, 10th November 2014.

    This is a discussion we desperately need to have. Our present system only rewards a few from everyone else’s work while actually destroying our economy. This needs to be changed and fast.

    The government should not be borrowing money ever.

    • les 14.1

      the Natz painted the Greens as looney ,kept repeating …’the Greens want to print money’!The public have no clue.Printing 100 billion into the domestic economy would also reduce the exchange rate,helping exporters.Keys Wall St masters hate the idea.

      • Colonial Viper 14.1.1

        You wouldn’t ‘print’ $100B into the domestic economy (its too large a number given a GDP of only $200B pa); you could easily print $10B and using the power of taxation and the ‘money multiplier’ to recirculate that $10B it would have a total $100B worth of effect over just a few years.

        In the US and other countries they used QE to gift newly printed money to the financial speculator class.

        What is needed now is money printing to create capital investment in societal needs as well as productive, low carbon energy, industrial and transport infrastructure.

        Printing 100 billion into the domestic economy would also reduce the exchange rate

        There are lots of ways to manage the exchange rate downwards; printing money is not one that should be overly focused on. I think making speculating on the NZD less palatable and less profitable is the major way ahead.

        • les

          Still dont know why NZ has a floating exchange rate.Cant see any advantages.The Greens mentioned 60 bil QE.The total would be gradually introduced.Lets face it NZ is really borrowing money that other countries have ‘printed’ anyway and paying interest on it.

          • alwyn

            I suggest that you have a look at this introduction to “The Impossible Trilemma”. You must then choose which of the other two objectives you will give up if you decide to have a fixed exchange rate. I will personally choose to have a floating exchange rate.

            • Colonial Rawshark

              I’m not talking about fixing the exchange rate, I’m talking about a managed float. Probably by pegging the NZ dollar to a basket of currencies of our major trading partners in order to give our exporters some certainty and to remove speculative volatility. The value of the NZD would not be fixed in value, and would still be subject to market movements day to day.

              • alwyn

                I wasn’t actually replying to your comment, or crediting you with any particular views. I was simply suggesting something to les who, just above my remark, said
                “Still dont know why NZ has a floating exchange rate.Cant see any advantages”

              • greywarshark

                @ colonial rawshark
                I like what you suggested it sounds as if it would work. Let’s do it soon eh!
                Maybe our companies wouldn’t then have to take part in this confabulation of hedging. It doesn’t sound as well-run as the TAB. More like a cleaned up version of a Mafia protection racket.

                Alwyn replying to les and yet not stating so is one of the things that annoys me in discussions. What relates to what. How can one follow a line of argument? It doesn’t matter if you are going on to the other blogs that just throw shit around (spray that again) and don’t care where it falls. But can people find the energy to actually indicate at the beginning who they are replying to!

                • alwyn

                  Comment intended for “greywarshark”!

                  Clearly I have assumed too much nous in some of the people who read this blog.
                  When the box at the top right of a comment says, as my comment did, I assumed that people would realise it was in reply to comment 14.1.1, which is the number at the top right of les’s one. They are also indented which makes things easier.
                  It was only well into the nesting when the numbers no longer show that I considered the reference to be required.
                  Clearly I am too trusting, or perhaps the numbers aren’t clear to elderly eyes. I shall make things clearer for your benefit in future.
                  My previous approach, which you dislike does seem to be the norm doesn’t it? In fact you seem to be the only person in this section who always puts the reference, although I admit I haven’t looked at evry comment.

                  • greywarshark

                    @ alwyn
                    Yes we need more nous. So keep applying yours here. I am sorry if your comment fitted in the thread and mine about you was not justified.

                    Comment threads can become impossible to follow so I still make the point that it is useful to have the name being replied to at the top. The number system is a help but not enough at times. I actually have deleted and replaced mine at times, because I have dropped into the thread between replies and so mucked up continuity of thought.

            • les

              Thanks for that,very interesting.The main dynamic would appear to be free capital flow.Hot money that chases global returns seems to be a common factor in exchange volatility.Putin is attempting to control this free flow of capital,as does China.And of course ‘capital flight’ is the often quoted bogeyman if ‘confidence’ in the management of the economy wanes.I wonder how the trilemma would play out if the U.S $ is abandoned as the default currency for international trade.

              • Colonial Rawshark

                I wonder how the trilemma would play out if the U.S $ is abandoned as the default currency for international trade.

                The shift away from any given reserve currency is a process, not an event, and usually takes decades to complete. (Think about how long it took for the USD to become dominant over the pound sterling). The shift away from the USD for international trade is currently happening at speed, but it will be another 5-10 years before it is really big.

                The breaking point will be when major energy bourses start to price fossil fuels in other currencies.

                Meanwhile this chart on the end of reserve currencies is worth reflecting on:


                • Draco T Bastard

                  (Think about how long it took for the USD to become dominant over the pound sterling).

                  One agreement negotiated during the closing stages of WWII – the Bretton Woods Agreement in fact which declared the US$ as the global reserve currency – so not decades. Of course that was when the US$ was still exchangeable for gold. It was the last attempt to maintain a Gold Standard and it failed miserably with the US dropping the Gold Standard under Nixon.

                  Effectively, with all countries currency floating, there is no Reserve Currency. What’s needed now is that everything produced within a country should only be sold in that country’s currency.

                  • Colonial Rawshark

                    I see Bretton Woods as the on paper formalisation of the outcome of an increasingly weakened and isolated British economy which had been declining for many years, and an upsurging US one which had been increasing for many years.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      Yeah, it was pretty much the hand off of the British Empire over to the US to make the new Empire of the US. And now were pretty much at the end of that one as well as their delusional economics comes crashing down.

    • Manuka AOR 14.2

      “This is a discussion we desperately need to have. Our present system only rewards a few from everyone else’s work while actually destroying our economy. This needs to be changed and fast.”

      Totally agree, Draco. NZ does need that discussion.

  14. Tautoko Mangō Mata 15

    At last GM foods are to be tested by independent scientists. This is long overdue. ““It will answer the question: is this GM food, and associated pesticide, safe for human health?” said Elena Sharoykina, a campaigner and co-founder of the Russian national association for genetic safety (Nags), the co-ordinator of the experiment. ”
    “Farmers, governments, scientists and consumers around the world have been involved in an intense debate since GM foods were introduced in 1994. But while there have been many thousands of studies conducted, mostly by GM companies, which show that there is no health risk, government regulators have not required evidence of long-term safety and deep mistrust has built between different “sides”. ”


    • Colonial Viper 15.1

      Uh, there is a severe mistake in this approach, as has been pointed out multiple times by Nassim Taleb.

      The true risk from GMO organisms doesn’t come from any supposed toxic effects of the food: it comes from the potential for irreversible, negative, systemic changes including wiping out entire parts of ecosystems. Testing GMO foods for toxic effects on human health will uncover nothing about this.

      • Chooky 15.1.1

        why not do both?…i am not convinced that there are never toxic effects of GM foods on people and animals ( Southland GM swedes and dead cows?)… and of course systemic changes in plants , seeds and ecosystems …which may not be good either

        ….any study that looks at this issue is worthy imo….but of course the wider question of ecosystem annihilations must also be considered ( eg impacts on insects and bees)

      • Tautoko Mangō Mata 15.1.2

        CV You are absolutely right about the real damage of GM but it will still be interesting to see if the results of these independent tests back up findings done by scientists funded by the biotech firms or find that it is suspect. It is essential that there are independently funded science research units who are able to carry out important scientific research and who are able to speak out without fear or favour.

      • greywarshark 15.1.3

        It is a sort of strawman argument. Lead the discussion down this alley and then leave everyone there so they forget the other matter.

        Sort of like chickens in the supermarket have no added hormones. Good. But they have added antibiotics used as propholactics? which tends to give us an overdose.
        But don’t worry our young boys aren’t going to grow breasts (which is what was happening as a result of the too-free hormone use.)

      • Murray Rawshark 15.1.4

        There is also the severe risk of a handful of uncontrollable corporates taking over the food supply for the whole of humanity. That’s one that we know they’re aiming for.

  15. Tracey 16

    “… Great news: your email to John Key supporting my Feed the Kids Bill is really working.

    I’ve never seen the Prime Minister get so tetchy! He’s obviously feeling the pressure of being offside with common sense public opinion about the need for a comprehensive food in schools program.

    My Bill didn’t get voted on last week as we thought it would, due to delays with other legislation at Parliament. That’s a good thing, as it buys us some time to build even more support to feed our kids….” meteria turei

  16. Naki man 17

    Nice to see that Smith has been arrested in Brazil, that should reduce the worry for his victims

  17. lprent 18

    Has anyone tried out the “Replies” tab yet? Let me know how useful it is.

    It should show up for people who aren’t logged in (and maybe to those who are logged in*)

    It is meant to show the last 100 direct responses from the last 200 comments you made ordered by most recent date/time.

    It was a bit of a pain getting the queries so that they didn’t add too much extra overhead on the system or slow the page loading.

    The tab will only show up if it “knows” your commenting email either because you are logged in or because of cookie left on your current machine because you previously left a comment and it is stored in the cookie.

    * I was rushed in testing it last night and it looks like I missed getting logged in users like myself being able to see it..

    • Lanthanide 18.1

      Looks like it works to me. Very good!

      • lprent 18.1.1

        Apart from not working for those of us who are logged in damnit. 🙂

        But it was 0130 before I was happy it wasn’t going to cripple the CPU on the real system.

        • Draco T Bastard

          Apart from not working for those of us who are logged in damnit. 🙂

          Was about to ask what replies tab 😈

          • lprent

            I will fix it tonight.

            The last thing I did was to get it to work with people who weren’t logged in and who got the email from the cookie of their last posted comment. I guess I broke the logged in user stuff. Didn’t see it myself because I have a third method for super users (ie me), and that wasn’t done.

    • marty mars 18.2

      Not logged in – works well – thanks

    • karol 18.3

      Where should I be looking for this tab?

      • Tracey 18.3.1

        Top right above where recent comments are listed

        • karol

          OK. Thanks. Had to log out of the current browser to see it. Wasn’t there when logged into Iron browser, then accessed TS on chrome, and not logged into TS there.

    • Tracey 18.4

      Fab. Am not logged in.

    • Manuka AOR 18.5

      It’s great! Very nifty 🙂
      Never seen one of those before…

      • lprent 18.5.1

        It has literally been sitting there for more than a year, but turned off because it was:-

        * so damn slow and CPU hungry.
        * caused problems with the page caching with people seeing other peoples replies (I used a “fragments” protocol that excludes sections from the caching).
        * I didn’t have a easy way to test it under load.

        You’re getting it now because I have the main server running local to home. Makes it easy to test code with the same DB and code base in a virtual machine.

        • weka

          Great addition, thanks! Will make it much easier to keep track of conversations, esp with people who aren’t on all the time.

  18. Penny Bright 19


    (13) November 2014

    Auckland Council CEO
    Stephen Town

    ‘Open Letter’ to Auckland Council CEO Stephen Town from ‘anti-corruption whistle-blower’ Penny Bright.

    Dear Stephen,

    Arising from my presentation yesterday, at the Auckland Council CCO Governance and Monitoring Committee meeting, it was interesting to hear the developments from yourself, regarding progress in providing transparency regarding information about contracts awarded to private sector consultants and contractors, to which citizens and ratepayers are lawfully entitled.

    As I understand it, you stated the following:

    * That there would be changes to staff delegation, regarding who could sign off contracts.

    * That there would be monthly reporting of Auckland Council awarded contracts, as currently provided by Auckland Transport, to the Auckland Council Finance and Performance Committee.

    This is arguably a move forward, albeit at arguably glacial pace, given that this requirement to provide information about contracts awarded to private sector consultants and contractors, is something to which citizens and ratepayers have been lawfully entitled, since this Auckland Council ‘Supercity for the 1%’, was forced upon us, and came into effect on 1 November 2010.

    However, in my view, this proposal you outlined today, does NOT ‘cut the mustard’.

    The simple solution, in my considered opinion, is this:

    Auckland Council and all Auckland Council Controlled Organisations (CCOs), including ‘legacy’ CCOs), have on the front page of their websites, the heading ‘Awarded Contracts’,. so it is VERY easy for citizens and ratepayers to find this information.

    With one ‘click’, using the Auckland Transport model as a guide,
    the following information should then be immediately available:


    Awarded contracts

    Auckland Transport is committed to ensuring its procurement activities are undertaken in an ethical and transparent manner.

    The attached lists detail all of the contracts awarded in the previous six months that are valued over $50,000.00. Details include:

    the contract number,
    the contract name,
    the supplier, and the
    award value.

    View the latest awarded contracts list (PDF 64KB)

    ( https://at.govt.nz/media/618879/NZTA-Awarded-Contracts.pdf )

    Disclaimer: we endeavour to list all contracts awarded above the value of $50,000.00 in the previous six months. Whilst all possible care and effort has been taken to ensure accuracy in this list, we accept no responsibility for any errors or omissions. Accordingly, this list should be used for reference only.

    For more information or advice

    Please e-mail us: procurement@aucklandtransport.govt.nz



    That ALL awarded contracts – not just those above the value of $50,000 are included in this list.

    This is citizens and ratepayers money, and we are lawfully entitled to know where exactly ALL of it is being spent.

    (There may be a significant number of awarded contracts which are valued at less than $50,000, but once added together, represent a considerable amount of citizens and ratepayers money.)


    So – this direct link to ‘AWARDED CONTRACTS’ should be available on the front page of the following websites:

    Auckland Council

    Auckland Council Investments Ltd

    Auckland Council Property Ltd

    Auckland Regional Amenities Funding Board

    Auckland Tourism, Events and Economic Development Ltd

    Auckland Waterfront Development Agency Ltd

    Regional Facilities Auckland

    Watercare Services Ltd

    COMET Auckland focuses on connecting families, business and community to learning opportunities. COMET’s mission is “transforming the social and economic landscape of Auckland through education”.

    The Contemporary Art Foundation (formerly PACT) is responsible for promoting, encouraging and supporting the arts for the benefit and enjoyment of the Auckland community and the public at large by providing the Te Tuhi centre of Arts.

    Te Puru Community Charitable Trust is responsible for managing the community centre at Te Puru Park supporting sports, leisure, community and cultural groups in the Beachlands, Maraetai and Whitford communities.

    Exempt CCOs are exempt from governance and monitoring activities such as annual reports and SOIs.

    Arts Regional Trust

    Highbrook Park Trust

    Mangere Mountain Education Trust

    Manukau Beautification Charitable Trust

    Mt Albert Grammar School – Community Swimming Pool Trust

    Safer Papakura Trust

    Please be reminded that CCOs are not covered by the Local Government (Rating) Act 2002, so ‘Rates Assessment Notices’ do not cover the spending/ ‘activities’ of CCOs.


    local authority means a territorial authority or a regional council


    When CCOs also do not provide the ‘devilish detail’ of contracts awarded to private sector consultants and contractors on their websites – then there are arguably billion$ of citizen and ratepayers’ public monies, which are NOT available for public scrutiny.

    However, s.45 (2) of the Local Government (Rating) Act 2002 states:
    ‘A rates assessment may include any other information that the local authority thinks fit.’



    What I recommend is that Auckland Council Rates Assessment Notices include the following information:

    Auckland Council and each of the Auckland CCOs, including the ‘legacy’ CCOs, provide the information which gives a direct link to ‘awarded contracts’ in each case, using the (improved) Auckland Transport model:

    Auckland Transport

    Auckland Council
    – Awarded-Contracts.pdf

    Auckland Council Investments Ltd
    – Awarded-Contracts.pdf

    Auckland Council Property Ltd
    – Awarded-Contracts.pdf

    Auckland Regional Amenities Funding Board
    – Awarded-Contracts.pdf

    Auckland Tourism, Events and Economic Development Ltd
    – Awarded-Contracts.pdf

    Auckland Waterfront Development Agency Ltd
    – Awarded-Contracts.pdf

    Regional Facilities Auckland
    – Awarded-Contracts.pdf

    Watercare Services Ltd
    – Awarded-Contracts.pdf

    (Plus Watercare Services Ltd should have that same – Awarded-Contracts.pdf on each ‘Statement and tax invoice’ account, as the only Auckland Council CCO which provides a separate and regular ‘bill’ to citizens and ratepayers for water and wastewater services).

    COMET Auckland
    – Awarded-Contracts.pdf

    The Contemporary Art Foundation
    – Awarded-Contracts.pdf

    Te Puru Community Charitable Trust
    – Awarded-Contracts.pdf

    Exempt CCOs are exempt from governance and monitoring activities such as annual reports and SOIs.

    Arts Regional Trust
    – Awarded-Contracts.pdf

    Highbrook Park Trust
    – Awarded-Contracts.pdf

    Mangere Mountain Education Trust
    – Awarded-Contracts.pdf

    Manukau Beautification Charitable Trust
    – Awarded-Contracts.pdf

    Mt Albert Grammar School – Community Swimming Pool Trust
    – Awarded-Contracts.pdf

    Safer Papakura Trust
    – Awarded-Contracts.pdf

    Yesterday, I reminded both yourself and elected Auckland Councillors of the following legislation which outlines statutory compliance of CCOs, with the LAW:

    Local Government Act 2002


    10Purpose of local government
    (1)The purpose of local government is—

    (a)to enable democratic local decision-making and action by, and on behalf of, communities; and

    (b)to meet the current and future needs of communities for good-quality local infrastructure, local public services, and performance of regulatory functions in a way that is most cost-effective for households and businesses.

    (2)In this Act, good-quality, in relation to local infrastructure, local public services, and performance of regulatory functions, means infrastructure, services, and performance that are—

    (a)efficient; and
    (b)effective; and
    (c)appropriate to present and anticipated future circumstances.


    59Principal objective of council-controlled organisation

    (1)The principal objective of a council-controlled organisation is to—
    (a)achieve the objectives of its shareholders, both commercial and non-commercial, as specified in the statement of intent; and

    (b)be a good employer; and

    (c)exhibit a sense of social and environmental responsibility by having regard to the interests of the community in which it operates and by endeavouring to accommodate or encourage these when able to do so; and

    (d)if the council-controlled organisation is a council-controlled trading organisation, conduct its affairs in accordance with sound business practice.

    (2)In subsection (1)(b), good employer has the same meaning as in clause 36 of Schedule 7.

    Public Records Act 2005


    17Requirement to create and maintain records

    (1)Every public office and local authority must create and maintain full and accurate records of its affairs, in accordance with normal, prudent business practice, including the records of any matter that is contracted out to an independent contractor.

    (2)Every public office must maintain in an accessible form, so as to be able to be used for subsequent reference, all public records that are in its control, until their disposal is authorised by or under this Act or required by or under another Act.

    (3)Every local authority must maintain in an accessible form, so as to be able to be used for subsequent reference, all protected records that are in its control, until their disposal is authorised by or under this Act.

    Public Records Act 2005



    local authority—

    (a)has the same meaning as in section 5(1) of the Local Government Act 2002; and

    (b)includes the following organisations defined in section 5(1) of that Act:

    (i)a council-controlled organisation:
    (ii)a council-controlled trading organisation:
    (iii)a local government organisation


    In conclusion, please be reminded of your statutory duties, as the CEO of Auckland Council, as outlined in s.42 of the Local Government Act 2002:


    42Chief executive

    (1)A local authority must, in accordance with clauses 33 and 34 of Schedule 7, appoint a chief executive.

    (2)A chief executive appointed under subsection (1) is responsible to his or her local authority for—

    (a)implementing the decisions of the local authority; and

    (b)providing advice to members of the local authority and to its community boards, if any; and

    (c)ensuring that all responsibilities, duties, and powers delegated to him or her or to any person employed by the local authority, or imposed or conferred by an Act, regulation, or bylaw, are properly performed or exercised; and

    (d)ensuring the effective and efficient management of the activities of the local authority; and

    (e)maintaining systems to enable effective planning and accurate reporting of the financial and service performance of the local authority; and

    (f)providing leadership for the staff of the local authority; and

    (g)employing, on behalf of the local authority, the staff of the local authority (in accordance with any remuneration and employment policy); and

    (h)negotiating the terms of employment of the staff of the local authority (in accordance with any remuneration and employment policy).

    (2A)In the case of a unitary authority for a district that includes 1 or more local board areas, a chief executive appointed under subsection (1) is also responsible to the unitary authority for—

    (a)implementing the decisions of each local board within the district of the unitary authority; and

    (b)implementing each local board agreement; and

    (c)providing advice to each local board and its members; and

    (d)providing the administrative and other facilities for each local board that are necessary for the board to carry out its functions and perform its duties.

    (3)A chief executive appointed under subsection (1) is responsible to his or her local authority for ensuring, so far as is practicable, that the management structure of the local authority—

    (a)reflects and reinforces the separation of regulatory responsibilities and decision-making processes from other responsibilities and decision-making processes; and

    (b)is capable of delivering adequate advice to the local authority to facilitate the explicit resolution of conflicting objectives.

    (4)For the purposes of any other Act, a chief executive appointed under this section is the principal administrative officer of the local authority.


    Please be also reminded that although I have never been to University, I do have a Quality Assurance background, and have a good grasp of ‘systems’ development, operation and management.

    It is this previous knowledge and experience upon which I have relied, in order to help fix what I consider to be endemic problems with the current lack of ‘open, transparent and democratically accountable’ governance at Auckland Council.

    For this ‘public service’ work, I am not paid, and do not charge.

    I respectfully suggest that the simple and commonsense solutions which I am offering are given your prompt and serious consideration.

    Yours sincerely,

    Penny Bright

    ‘Anti-corruption / anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’

    Attendee: Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference 2009
    Attendee: Transparency International r Anti-Corruption Conference 2010
    Attendee: Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference 2013
    Attendee: G20 Anti-Corruption Conference 2014

    2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate (polled 4th with 11,723 votes)



    [lprent: These are starting to get too damn long again. Try just linking some of it. ]

    • paddy 19.1

      Hear hear Lprent. It’s getting tiresome. She should simply write
      I have another diatribe about Auckland council then a link.

    • adam 19.2

      Penny, I love what you put up – but it’s hard to read.

      Yes as Iprent say’s it too darn long – but you need to understand in this format that is a problem – But it also has problems of appearance – the font and structure.

      Do you have a web page?

      I think if it was formated attractively, more people would read it.

      Then do a link from here

      I know myself and others would follow said link and read. As it stands, a long list of dull, ill formatted text is a boor.

    • marty mars 19.3

      Content may be good but impossible to read for me. The wall of noise/sound doesn’t work with this stuff imo.

    • Skinny 19.4

      Many of us like the things you fight for Jenny Penny, however as people say perhaps a link is more appropriate. And a bit of conversation would be good too, as ya starting to look like a serial spammer (you do this on social media also). You do give me a chuckle because I think “here we go another Penny dump”. 🙂

      [lprent: Fixed. ]

  19. Tracey 20

    interesting analysis at auckland transport blog on the respective minister briefings by MOT and NZTA

    NZTA seems to want earlier involvement in rail loop, while MOT doesnt see the point, it seems, of planning for peak times.


  20. Skinny 21

    Tracey we all know National are anti Rail. Auckland road congestion is a disgrace. The rail loop and other corridors should be up and running years ago. Link direct to the airport and across to the Northshore. All over the World high speed passenger train lines are being built, many of them electric. A high speed line should run from Auckland-Hamilton-Tauranga and in the opposite direction Auckland to Whangarei-Bay of Islands. People could live in beautiful beach locations and commute to work in Auckland City.

    • northshoreguynz 21.1

      I’d love to know how much the roading lobby, truck co’s, civil contractors etc have donated to the National Party over the years.

      • Skinny 21.1.1

        The biggest donators to National are the trucking lobbyists. I see the donations are actually paid for by tax & rate payers because National ensure the truck companies aren’t paying their share of road maintenance/ upgrades and ‘roads of national significance’ Then there are the kick backs for roading contracts awarded.

      • Draco T Bastard 21.1.2

        Truck group gave $95,000 to MPs

        Trucking lobby group Road Transport Forum gave nearly $100,000 in donations to political parties and candidates for last year’s election, saying it was to help get access to MPs to discuss their issues.

        But the truly interesting thing about that article is this bit:

        Mr Friedlander said donations were offered to a range of candidates from different parties.

        “It’s getting one in each of the different parts of the country so that our members in that area can go and talk to them about issues that affect our industry. It’s simply assisting the democratic process.”

        Yep, these arseholes buy up our MPs as a matter of course which is why we’re on our way to becoming, if we’re not already, a plutocracy.

    • Chooky 21.2

      wait for it ….John Key and Nactional …..are sure to have plans for private companies to build private railways…and then take huge profit shares

      • Tracey 21.2.1

        Apparently nats havent allocated a single dollar to public transport in auckland over the last six years

      • Skinny 21.2.2

        There already half way there ‘privatization by stealth’. A friend of mine now refers to Kiwi Rail as Downer Rail. I asked why is that? He reckons because the new CEO is ex Downers Aussie and since being appointed he has recruited and brought his fellow mates across. So yes your right I’d say Chooky!

  21. Philip Ferguson 22


    I’ve just stuck up on Redline an old article from 2001 that we did in a previous publication a number of us were involved in, ‘Mid-East Solidarity’.

    The article looks at how the US created Osama bin Laden and, at the end, there’s an interesting extract of an interview with Zbigniew Brzezinski about how the US ‘bear-trapped’ the Soviet Union into Afghanistan. Brzezinski ends up saying that “a few stirred up Moslems” was a small price to pay for winning the Cold War.

    It’s at: http://rdln.wordpress.com/2014/11/13/how-the-west-created-osama-bin-laden/


    • Chooky 22.1

      It may be that ISIS is also partially a Washington /Israel/Saudi creation to fragment Iraq and Syria …and eventually Iran ?

    • Tracey 22.2

      Interesting perspective. There is saddem hussein in their lab too.

    • Murray Rawshark 22.3

      A small price for Zbigniew Brzezinski to pay. A huge price for young American servicemen and women, the 9/11 dead, the dead in Afghanistan and Iraq, those still dying from Obama’s itchy trigger finger, the Muslim women attacked on the street in Australia, ……………….

      I’m sick of our world being designed by sociopaths.

  22. Philip Ferguson 23


    While the working class in this country remains almost perversely passive in the face of a considerable undermining of work rights, pay, conditions, living standards, the working class in the south of Ireland has been vigorously asserting itself against the austerity being imposed on it.

    The latest austerity measure being imposed by the Fine Gael-Labour government – having already raised the retirement age, cut benefits, imposed a household tax and more – is a water tax. This has been met with mass mobilisations by workers both in a huge demonstration in Dublin a couple of weeks ago and in local community mobilisations and community civil disobedience.

    On Redline, we’ve stuck up an interview with a local community leading activist from Cobh (in County Cork) about the struggle against the water tax: http://rdln.wordpress.com/2014/11/08/working-class-resists-water-tax-in-south-of-ireland/

    Labour’s dedication to imposing austerity has cost it dearly electorally. In May it was almost annihilated by Sinn Fein in the local body and Euro elections. It lost all its Euro seats to Sinn Fein and a majority of its local government seats were lost too, mainly to Sinn Fein.

    I realise this a pro-Labour site, but if you folks want to know what a NZ Labour government would do if the economic climate here changed dramatically for the worse, look at what Labour in Ireland is doing.


    • Chooky 23.1

      re “I realise this a pro-Labour site”….not necessarily!….this isnt a Labour site…rather a Left site …..many here are very critical of Labour and are Greens or Mana/Int or old Commies …or right wing tr…lls…so feel right at home….( until you get up the nose of Iprent…so heed warnings …or death by banning will come swiftly out of the mist)

    • Colonial Rawshark 23.2

      The Standard is most certainly not a pro-NZ Labour Party site. Thanks for the update on the situation in Ireland. Bankers and the top 1% get bonuses, everyone else gets pain.

      • Manuka AOR 23.2.1

        “While the working class in this country remains almost perversely passive in the face of a considerable undermining of work rights, pay, conditions, living standards,”

        It is “perversely passive”, and I don’t understand it. It was not always like this. And it is in the face of many other abuses beyond lowered living standards. Heck, we virtually voted in the “right to be spied on” – the increased powers of the GCSB; we are losing our land and our assets, our once egalitarian society, sufficient food for all who live here, the kiwi dream of a home (and a bach), and so much more – many other aspects of life, and values we once held dear are thrown out the door and there is barely an audible whimper.

        • Murray Rawshark

          I have an unformed theory that class consciousness has been destroyed by the influence of American culture. We’ve adopted their American dream bullshit that we’re in a new land of opportunity and can all get rich. We either think of ourselves as temporarily embarrassed millionaires on the way up, or as personal failures. We have distanced ourselves from the English notions of class and adopted the false American view.

          As always, I think this process began to change us during the first ACT government of Lange and Douglas. Key is just the latest incarnation. Forty years ago we would have despised the guy as a dishonest creep and dumped a truckload of cowshit in his driveway. Now heaps of us worship the dickhead.

    • swordfish 23.3

      Yep. Same old pattern – Social Democratic Party elites compromising with the Right’s austerity measures and paying a huge electoral price. Greater Dublin became a real stronghold for the Left at the last Irish Election, particularly Labour, but also a few Socialist, Sinn Fein* and independent Left MPs. The Irish Labour Party had always had its core support base in the Capital, but we’re still talking a decided minority – 2011 was a real breakthrough with the combined Left taking more than half the Dublin vote (though hardly surprising given the sense of crisis at the time). Looks like it’s all now been squandered.

      * Still some debate over precisely how Left Sinn Fein is. Some suggest an intensely socially-conservative party – I think it’s been called the Irish Catholic Church with Guns. But, overall, I think it’s still fair to see them as a democratic socialist party.

  23. James 25

    Kim Dotcom is looking for new lawyers… http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11358082

    On the NBR article yesterday it said that SG took it to the high court to be released from their retainer.

    All mention of Kim is off their website – they used to have a dedicated page as well as listing it as “examples of work completed”.

    Interesting what caused this.

    • Tracey 25.1

      Tony ryall joining simpson grierson?

      • James 25.1.1

        When on retainer – they cannot just drop a client for a reason like that.

        If the client wont release them from their retainer – then they have to take them to court to be released (which is what was in the NBR yesterday) and they have to demonstrate a reason why – either that the client cannot afford to pay or that the client has misrepresented themselves (or some material fact) that causes issues.

        Given that they were progressing with this then SG must have had something.

        Seems today however that they have not had to go to court, so one assumes that KDC is now “ok” with them not representing him.

      • Tautoko Mangō Mata 25.1.2

        If I was Dotcom, I wouldn’t be keen to have Tony Ryall working at the same law firm as the lawyers defending me against the Crown in a case that Mr Ryall’s former colleagues have a great deal of interest.
        “Former National minister Tony Ryall is joining law firm Simpson Grierson as head of its public policy practice.

        “Former MP Tony Ryall joins Simpson Grierson”
        “Tony brings to Simpson Grierson a long and impressive track record in public life,” Simpson Grierson chairman Kevin Jaffe said, “and he will be a strong contributor to the firm’s senior leadership team. This appointment is another significant initiative in the development and growth of our firm.”

        During his years in Parliament, Ryall served as Minister of Health, Minister of State Owned Enterprises, Minister of State Services, Minister of Justice, Minister in charge of Housing New Zealand Limited, Minister of Local Government, and Minister in Charge of the Audit Department. ”

        I think that this decision by whichever side is to avoid a situation of conflict of interest.

    • chris73 25.2

      Probably because they realise hes not going to pay his bills

  24. Tracey 26

    Rolleston Prison. Rolleston Prison.

    The world’s first specialist prison treatment programme for child molesters in Canterbury has today celebrated its 25th anniversary, with prison chiefs reflecting on its success in reducing re-offending.

    Kia Marama special treatment unit, based at Rolleston Prison outside Christchurch, was a globally-pioneering project when it was built in 1989.

    Since then, it has treated more than 1100 child sex offenders and inspired similar units across the world.

    Inmates take part in an intensive 33-week programme that at first focuses on getting them to understand and develop insight into why they made the choices that led to their horrific crimes.

    They are then helped to develop an empathetic appreciation of how they came to offend and the harm caused by their actions, said Kia Marama principal psychologist, Alex Green today.

    “What we know from the research is that the vast majority of men who have sexually abused children and undertaken treatment to address their offending do not go on to reoffend,” she said.

    Studies say it has produced a 29 per cent drop in sexual re-offending.?..

    Herald today

    • chris73 26.1

      Thats good but, and this is something Labour could run with if they wanted to gain some votes, theres need to be a law change so that anyone can be held indefinitely with no leave (under strict conditions of course) even retrospectively

      It beggers belief that the beast of blenheim, with a noted high chance of re-offending, can still be released and that Traynor is let out on leave and yet (thanks to people like Peter Williams QC)

      It seems that in the pendulum to protect the individuals rights has swung so far that its now become more important than protecting the community

      Nationals dropped the ball, lets see if Labour can pick it up

      • Tracey 26.1.1

        “…“What we know from the research is that the vast majority of men who have sexually abused children and undertaken treatment to address their offending do not go on to reoffend,” she said. …”

        It is cheaper to use effective rehab programmes than to imprison people indefinitely. While I agree that there are a tiny number probably beyond rehabilitation, these kinds of programmes are to be applauded, encouraged and extended. Each government for the last 25 years that has kept this programme going deserves praise. Lets extend it and use our money wisely.

        Each prisoner who does not reoffend following release is a person saved from a destroyed life of victimhood.

        • chris73

          They are to be applauded however what would be best is to have this program and have the permanent incarceration option as well because the chance of re offending when you’re locked up for the rest of your life is zero

          • McFlock

            the chance of re offending when you’re locked up for the rest of your life is zero

            Well, that’s balls, too.

            It just means that your victims are locked in with you, be they guards or other criminals.

            • Tracey

              And how quickly a post about successful rehab of male sex offenders becomes about some righties focus on one of the worst offenders in our history all but dismissing the FACT that sex offenders can ve rehabilitated with access to quality, effective programmes…

              • chris73

                No I’m saying have both options not one of the other because not all offenders can be rehabilitated and the community should be protected from them

                • McFlock

                  Well then, we should get better rehabilitation methods.

                  • chris73

                    I don’t believe theres 100% effective rehabilitation out there

                    • McFlock

                      I don’t believe that any implementation of your idea would stop at the people who can’t be rehabilitated.

                    • chris73

                      Now you’re just being paranoid, this is not a slippery slope situation

                    • McFlock

                      I’m not arguing slippery slope.

                      I’m saying that if rehabilitation isn’t 100% effective, why should the identification of incorrigible serious offenders be 100% effective?

                    • chris73

                      Then you probably want all current prisoners held under preventative detention changed to normal sentencing then

                    • Tracey

                      To know someone cannot be rehabilitated, you have to try to rehabilitate them. Fortunately there are some effective programmes out there. Lets get more of them, like this one at Rollerston prison.


                      Rolleston Prison. Rolleston Prison.

                      The world’s first specialist prison treatment programme for child molesters in Canterbury has today celebrated its 25th anniversary, with prison chiefs reflecting on its success in reducing re-offending.

                      Kia Marama special treatment unit, based at Rolleston Prison outside Christchurch, was a globally-pioneering project when it was built in 1989.

                      Since then, it has treated more than 1100 child sex offenders and inspired similar units across the world.

                      Inmates take part in an intensive 33-week programme that at first focuses on getting them to understand and develop insight into why they made the choices that led to their horrific crimes.

                      They are then helped to develop an empathetic appreciation of how they came to offend and the harm caused by their actions, said Kia Marama principal psychologist, Alex Green today.

                      “What we know from the research is that the vast majority of men who have sexually abused children and undertaken treatment to address their offending do not go on to reoffend,” she said.

                      Studies say it has produced a 29 per cent drop in sexual re-offending.?..

                      Herald today …”

                    • McFlock

                      well, personally, yeah. But there’s also a shitload of difference between the current situation and changing sentences retrospectively.

                      No doubt it would be prifitable for garth micvictim’s funders, but it would suck for us as a society.

          • Tracey


            Off with their heads

            • chris73

              Oh I’d very much support the death penalty but it’ll never happen but at least locking them away for life is the next best thing

              • Tracey

                Gee, I wonder how I guessed that…


                • chris73

                  and you know what, its nothing to be ashamed of either so take your rolling eyes and stick them…well you can guess where

                  • Tracey

                    And that is the same level of intellect you have brought to this entire discussion

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    It’s something to be ashamed of, Chris.

                    On the one hand you decry the fallibility of the justice system, on the other you seek to blunt it with outdated methods. Lives are at stake, whether from the risk of recidivism from your failed penal policies, or the institutional fallibility you cite.


      • McFlock 26.1.2

        It seems that in the pendulum to protect the individuals rights has swung so far that its now become more important than protecting the community

        Any community that supports retrospective indefinite detention doesn’t deserve protection.

        • chris73

          I’m not saying there shouldn’t be extremely rigorous standards however any community that puts the rights of someone like the beast of Blenheim higher than the safety of its community has its priorities wrong

          • Tracey

            His rights were not put higher. You need to do some reading on our justice system, then understand that he is a tiny, miniscule percentage of sex offenders who cant be rehabilitated…

            Mind you, reading the defenders of john key here on joking about a murderer and molester, withdrawing a promised apology to a victim of an attempted rape and saying boys will be boys when they have sex with drunk 13 year olds, you should expect a barrage from some rw posters about you being tough on this offender.

            • chris73

              Absolutely, as soon as you post something I said about it

              ” tiny, miniscule percentage of sex offenders who cant be rehabilitated…”

              – Exactly, some can’t so for those its locked away for life

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                Who decides which is which: the sentencing judge, or the parole board?

                Think carefully now.

                PS: yes, I know you want the answer to be “talk back radio”, and that isn’t an option (see civilisation as mentioned elsewhere).

                • chris73

                  Sentencing judge to recommend followed by final say by the parole board as they have most to with the prisoner is probably a good place

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    So, you support the status quo. You’re making a lot of noise for a conservative.

                    • chris73

                      I should have added a good place to start, the system just needs some tweaking

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      So as to restrospectively change the law to keep Stewart Murray Wilson in prison, despite the fact that you were spoonfed every single piece of information you have about him, and your policies were written by Graham John Capill.

                      What a fuckwit is in control of your right wing brain.

                    • chris73

                      So as to restrospectively change the law to keep Stewart Murray Wilson in prison, despite the fact that you were spoonfed every single piece of information you have about him, and your policies were written by Graham John Capill.

                      – You do know I wasn’t a government minister then nor am I now which is why I said Nationals dropped the ball on this

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      You know I’m referring to your reliance on Graham Capill for everything you “think” about the Justice system, eh.

                    • chris73

                      You know I’m referring to your reliance on Graham Capill for everything you “think” about the Justice system, eh.

                      – I wouldn’t have a problem with Capill being locked away for life however it will surprise you that after 40 years on this planet I can and do think for myself

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      So bloody well think then!

                      Think about recidivism rates, for example. Try a few international comparisons, I dare you.

                    • felix

                      “I can and do think for myself”

                      That’s weird, all you’ve ever done here is regurgitate bullshit from Whaleoil and Kiwiblog.

                      Maybe you do your thinking for yourself under a different handle.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Chris73 thinks in another capacity.

          • McFlock

            That’s where you’re mistaken.
            It’s not about the rights of the BoB.

            It’s about the safety of everyone in a society that feels cool with retrospectively deciding to permanently deprive people of their liberty.

            It’s basically balancing the danger to society from one individual versus the danger to society of a judicial system that’s ok with crossing that threshold. Because your “extremely rigorous standards” don’t mean shit when the legal system is happy to retrospectively change the rules that it operates under.

            • chris73

              No sorry I disagree with you, some people should not be allowed out into the community because the danger is too high

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                It’s called preventive detention. Please try and keep up, it’s been around for a while now.

                • chris73

                  Yes but the problem is it can be ended and the prisoner can be paroled

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    What you think of a problem I regard as a natural consequence of civilisation and universal human rights.

                    Society is not a lynch mob, in spite of your personal atavism.

                    • chris73

                      Molestation and murder is a natural consequence of civilisation and universal human rights.?

                      – I really do disagree with you on this one

                    • Tracey

                      Chris Do you think sex offenders are special, and have some kind of gene they are born with???

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      No, Chris, parole. Parole is a natural consequence of civilisation and human rights.

                      Molestation and murder are natural consequences of right wing brain syndrome.

                    • chris73

                      Molestation and murder are natural consequences of right wing brain syndrome.

                      – Got a link for that or are you just talking s**t, again

                    • chris73

                      “Do you think sex offenders are special, and have some kind of gene they are born with???”

                      – I don’t profess to know but if I had to hazard a guess I’d say it’s more nature rather than nurture

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Chris73 asked “Got a link for that or are you just talking shit, again”

                      Well, there is definitely such a thing as right wing brain syndrome (which means there’s a left wing brain syndrome, in case you hadn’t picked up on that) cf. Kanai on brain structure and Hodson & Busseri on stupidity.

                      I think it’s the stupidity that causes the most problems. For example, violence (including child abuse) is inversely proportional to income equality, and right wing policies exacerbate inequality.


                    • Tracey

                      Chris 5:55pm

                      But you did profess to know

                      “..Molestation and murder is a natural consequence of civilisation and universal human rights.?

                      – I really do disagree with you on this one. ..”

                      Given that approximately 1 in 3 females are sexually abused, doesnt account for males sexually abused, you seem to be suggesting that over 20% of the male population were born as sexual abusers.

                      Thats almost a case for storing sperm and eliminating men, you know, to keep society safe.

                    • chris73

                      Given that approximately 1 in 3 females are sexually abused, doesnt account for males sexually abused, you seem to be suggesting that over 20% of the male population were born as sexual abusers

                      – Got any proof of this?

                    • Tracey

                      Are you saying getting rid of all males at birth wont permanently reduce the number of men who sexually women and boys?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Born as sexual abusers.

                      What’s your evidence that it’s genetic?

                      There’s lots of statistics about rape culture Chris. I’m surprised you need reminding of them.

                    • chris73

                      I know you love that study as it confirms everything you think you know but you may want to check this out


                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Choice, thanks Chris.

                      In the first paragraph, it supports the finding that “intelligence and political orientation are related to each other”, and goes further, stating that cultural context influences the relationship, albeit slowly, over time.

                      It also encourages my quest for better wingnuts, cf: the finding that not all wingnuts are mired in stupidity.

              • McFlock

                So you’re saying that there is no danger to the community from a legal system that can retrospectively decide to permanently imprison individuals?

                You’ve obviously never pissed off an authority figure who was good with paperwork.

                • chris73

                  I’m suggesting imposing the current restrictions we know have for people convicted of similar crimes

                  • McFlock

                    And I bet you’d argue just as hard for any sentencing reductions to be retrospectively applied, too /sarc

                • Tracey

                  In any event we need more of these programmes operating and funded while chris advocates for his harsher penal system and organise his rallies and petitions, lobbies the govt and generally does more than sitting at his computer pretending to understand our penal system and rehabilitation…

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    He probably doesn’t even know that Graham Capill is responsible for the details of his desired penal policy.

                    • Tracey

                      Well, he doesnt know much about our penal system or sexual offenders so he probably doesnt know that either

                  • chris73

                    You are an idiot, I’m advocating more of the programmes AND (for added emphasis since you seem to be blatantly ignoring it) harsher penalties, its not one or the other

                    I also note the judge when sentencing Stewart Murray Wilson the judge said that he would have given a sentence of preventive detention, except that this option was not available for him to use

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      “harsher penalties”, in direct contradiction of the evidence of what works, and in complete support of Mr. Graham John Capill.

                      Doing his bit for stupidity and a worse recidivism rate, leading to more victims, let’s hear it for Wingnut Number Nine!

                    • Tracey

                      Your FIRST and subsequent response to a successful rehab programme has been to focus on

                      Permanent detention
                      Death penalty

                      Shifting the emphasis immediately from rehab to expensive detention and the idea of extermination…

                      You have show no interest in the rehab discussion, focused almost entirely on one case ( of someone who is behind bars) and used it to support your factually unfounded views on our penal system and rehab. Your right of course…

                      Can you repost where you advocated for “… More of the programmes.”? I cant for the life of me find it.

                    • chris73

                      Are you drunk?

                      “You have show no interest in the rehab discussion” why should I when I already agreed that rehab programs are a good thing, what else is there for me to say?

                      Are you really that keen on an echo chamber?

                    • Tracey

                      Was my question too hard. You wrote

                      “…I’m advocating more of the programmes …”

                      I asked where in this entire discussion you advocated anything of the sort. You didnt. Run rabbit run…

                      Not an echo chamber, a discussion on programmes to rehabilitate sex offenders and the funding thereof.

                      By all means turn it into your own bandwagon for advocating the death penalty, but dont get all pissy when your complete lack of knowledge of our penal system how it works and rehab is exposed. And out come the rw “go to” escape routes

                      ” are you drunk”
                      “echo chamber”

                      You and slylands sharing a booth at the wellington car park?

                    • chris73

                      I asked where in this entire discussion you advocated anything of the sort. You didnt. Run rabbit run…

                      – The very first thing I said was:

                      Thats good…do you see where I was agreeing with you that the rehab program was good

                      – Next up was:

                      They are to be applauded however what would be best is to have this program and have the permanent incarceration option as well because the chance of re offending when you’re locked up for the rest of your life is zero…you know like again agreeing with about the rehab program

                      The third thing was:

                      No I’m saying have both options not one of the other because not all offenders can be rehabilitated and the community should be protected from them…once again saying we should have the programme

                    • Tracey

                      So you lied when you said you have been advocating “more of the programmes”…

                      You agreed this one programme is good, briefly, “but”, “however”, moved on to smw and your desire for permanent incarceration.

                      That is not the same as advocating for “more programmes”. Do you even understand the words you wrote.

                      You said you didnt think everyone could be rehabilitated but skipped over the fact that to know that you need to put someone through a rehab programme.

                      Then you started pretending you have been “advocating more of the programmes” … Unable to admit you had not been advocating more of the programmes, despite going back over your own words, you tried to make your words mean something they patently dont.

          • One Anonymous Bloke

            Giving criminals super-villain nicknames raises the double standard a notch, too.

            His name is Stewart Murray Wilson. Not the Beast, not the Penguin, Joker, Panther, or whatever other “cred” you want to bestow.

            These days we’re even letting them choose their own. Paging Dr. Parker Hales.

            • chris73

              Thats a fair call

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                It’s part of the way they dupe you, Chris: the media picks a heinous crime more-or-less at random, and uses it to molest your amygdala.

                • chris73

                  Stewart Murray Wilsons crimes are enough to achieve that

                  Though I do note:


                  He was first recalled for breaching his release conditions, namely that he made phone contact with a woman he had been restricted from contacting because she was a relative of one of his victims.

                  • Tracey

                    And is he on the loose sexually assaulting people, or in prison. The current system works, it isnt fool proof…

                    • chris73


                      This means that Wilson is likely to remain in prison until the end of his sentence in September 2015, after which release conditions can be imposed for a maximum of six months. The Corrections Department is seeking an extended supervision order against Wilson for a term of 10 years, starting when his parole or release conditions come to an end.

                      Yet the department is still having to fight to keep it happening

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      The government is having to fight to keep a citizen incarcerated? Thank goodness you didn’t manage to drown the government in the bathtub yet, eh Chris.

            • Tracey

              I dont think chris knew his actual name.

              • chris73

                I used BoB as people were more likely to recognize that then Stewart Murray Wilson so rather then focus on trivialities (like having to google his name) people could just respond

                But thanks for playing

                • Tracey

                  Its not the only thing you have dumbed down in this conversation…

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    Paging Dr. Pavlov.

                  • chris73

                    Thats true but I still felt the need to respond to your replies, weak as they are

                    • Tracey

                      Ladies and gentleman, may i present for your entertainment… PEE WEE Herman.

                    • chris73

                      You want to bring it down a notch I’ll bring it down a notch just stop whinging about it

                    • Tracey

                      Are you saying getting rid of all males at birth wont permanently reduce the number of men who sexually abuse women and boys?

                    • chris73

                      “Are you saying getting rid of all males at birth wont permanently reduce the number of men who sexually abuse women and boys?”

                      – That sounds dangerously close to eugenics so you may think like that (its a free country after all no matter what the left say) but I’d suggest you keep those views to yourself

                    • Tracey

                      So, the suggestion is right? If we want an absolute protection for society, which you appear to want, this would work. You suggested above it wouldnt. It doesnt matter if its eugenics, you want an absolute protection, i gave you one (hypothetically) and you suggested it wouldnt work.

                      Do you accept that in order to know someone cant be rehabilitated you need to try and rehabilitate them first?

                    • felix

                      I don’t see why that would be necessary Tracey.

                      Surely all we need to do is measure the dimensions of their head.

    • Paul 26.2

      Just look at this strand to see hoe much the tr*** derails intelligent debate.
      You are wasting your energy, people.
      There are better things top be doing.
      Can the moderators look closely at this baltant tr***ing – it’s killing this site, as it intends.

      [lprent: It is in Open Mike. We simply don’t moderate that post as we do other posts because it is meant to keep the really blatant rubbish separated from real posts, and incidentally for people to have a place for some dumb and not so dumb fun. That is part of what the net is about.

      This is pretty good compared to the worst standards. You wait until you see a discussion start up on chemtrails, 9/11 theories, games, religion, or when people just start talking past each other. That happens when people are starting to gte really bored. ]

      • chris73 26.2.1

        Seriously Paul? You are a reverse tr**l or worse someone whos just discovered a “new” word used on the message boards and you think it makes you look hip and up to date rather than the sad and desperate you look now

        If you don’t like different opinions then go visit red alert

        • felix

          No, Paul’s right. You are only here to disrupt and derail.

          Nothing you do here has any purpose other than to hurt the left.

          • Weepus beard

            Yep, that is the definition. If only I were a moderator.

            • Paul

              Oh to be the moderator.
              I’d get rid of the whole lot of these tr***s and free this site up.
              They are so dull, so predictable and incredibly time wasting.

              • lprent

                There is a response for you right here.

                There are blogs around that follow your particular prescription. They are called the dead blogs where no-one writes any more and no-one ever comments. Since we’re uninterested in being dead, then I suggest you keep the whining down.

        • Weepus beard

          There’s no such thing as a reverse troll. Just people responding to trolls like yourself.

          You and some others only comment because the way most people think here infuriates you.

          You certainly don’t like different opinions.

  25. James 27

    Internet – Mana.

    Question for those who know. Were they not supposed to agree what was happening with the partnership 6 weeks after the election?

    Does anyone know what happened? Is there still a partnership? Is Mana going it alone, or is KDC still championing them?

    • marty mars 27.1

      Not sure about what Mana is doing at the moment but this from Laila on facebook today

      The Internet Party is talking about the future. We have set up a working group and will be inviting members to participate in consideration of options for the future. If you are a member expect an email with more information in the next couple of days (and an invitation to join the working group). Meanwhile we are asking members and active supporters to share your views through this survey:

      Mana Members can do the survey too, I did, and enjoyed it.

  26. Tracey 28

    the reserve bank is worried about the impact of investors on the property market, in auckland in particular. So, it has consulted real estate agents, finance institutions and investors…

    “..The Reserve Bank is eyeing measures to discourage speculators from buying multiple houses as it acknowledges its loan-to-value ratio (LVR) restrictions have favoured investors over first-home buyers.

    Appearing before MPs at Parliament yesterday, RBNZ governor Graeme Wheeler acknowledged “the issue is also around people who invest and buy multiple houses”.

    “We have been thinking quite deeply about whether we need to introduce measures to discourage some of those practices”, he said.

    The RBNZ had consulted financial markets, realtors and investors, “and we’re currently exploring that in-house”….”

    • Colonial Rawshark 28.1

      Can you believe how many PhDs and graduate degree economists the RBNZ has in-house, as well as access to research from around the world on the problem of property price speculation and asset bubbles…and all they can do is issue a “we’re thinking about it, it’s complicated.”

      Seems to me it’s mainly complicated by

      1) Their insistence on following a whole lot of wrong economic/markets theory until the bitter end.

      2) Their willingness to make those on the bottom 3/4 of the economic ladder pay dearly, while trying to minimise adverse effects on those with multi-million dollar property portfolios.

    • Nic the NZer 28.2

      Easy way to combat people buying multiple houses, assess the LVR on a per-property basis. Most speculators don’t have the deposit on the new property, especially if they are borrowing the balance from the bank. And the RBNZ needs to be regulating all of the finance sector, all the time.

      As to the RBNZ ending the property bubble, I am not actually sure that’s a great idea. In order to stop the economy faltering somebody needs to take over the spending initiative (hint hint, we are looking at you Government). If not then there goes the economy down the drain along with the property bubble. I am fairly sure this is stopping central banks including NZs from acting to some extent on these issues. When the government realizes that the economy is actually running below capacity at present, and it needs to contribute to its growth by running a decent sized deficit, then I am happy for the RBNZ to really sink the property bubble.

    • Weepus beard 28.3

      I’m sorry. Could someone please explain why the reserve bank is considering this/having to consider this?

      Surely social governance and social policy is, well, the role of a government.

      • Colonial Rawshark 28.3.1

        Makes you wonder who is really in charge of things eh.

      • Draco T Bastard 28.3.2

        It’d be in their brief to produce reports for the government on possible actions the government can take. Then there’s the rather stupid idea that the central bank should be in control of the economy rather than the government. This latter idea is great for keeping the rich rich but not so good for the country as it prevents the government from acting in the best interests of the country.

  27. greywarshark 29

    Positive NZ No. 2 (Last 9/11/2014 Dunedin TV)

    Rod Oram had a lot of good things to say about NZs Orion IT company which has developed an all-connecting health system that incorporates diverse players and helps them to incorporate different platforms, I think, to produce an informative, quick health profile on a patient.
    Radio nz
    Originally aired on Nine To Noon, Tuesday 11 November 2014
    Rod Oram discusses the Orion Health share float
    (and a curious property deal by the Goodman Property Trust.)
    Details on Orion Health Care

  28. Draco T Bastard 30

    Review? What Review?

    The public will never see the results of the Government’s “review” on the threat of foreign fighters – because officials were never asked to write a report.

    Prime Minister John Key and Minister in Charge of the Security Intelligence Service Chris Finlayson announced the four-week review on October 13. Key said: “Without pre-empting the outcome of the review, it is likely to recommend that some urgent changes be made to legislation.”

    However, within three weeks he delivered a speech which detailed upcoming law changes, including travel restrictions on domestic foreign fighters, tougher passport controls and beefed-up surveillance powers.

    Saves having to answer those pesky OIA’s I suppose or having research actually contradict what you’re doing.

  29. Ergo Robertina 31

    Zero hours contracts now the norm in the fast food industry – McDonald’s, KFC, Pizza Hut, Starbucks, Burger King, Wendy’s, according to Unite’s Mike Treen.
    Outrageous given these corporates track sales to the minute and can predict demand far in advance.
    A telling comment from one worker that it was hard to be sick, as you are not at work to ‘fight’ for hours. Very sad; as if that should be on your mind when you’re trying to get well.


    ”Brett Patterson works for Burger King in Hamilton and is one of thousands of employees in the fast food industry on zero hour contracts. While he works most weeks, he says it’s hard to make a living.
    “Because we’ve got zero hours in our contract – like never guaranteed – I find myself always trying to fight for the hours. It’s hard when you get sick, because when you get sick you can’t be there as much to fight for the hours.”‘

    • Draco T Bastard 31.1

      I think zero hours contracts need to have a minimum retainer involved. Basically, a minimum of say $300 per week that must be paid whether you work or not and any hour worked will be paid on top of that.

      The businesses expenses should not be put on the employees.

    • Draco T Bastard 31.2

      Zero-hours contracts: no security at work and no security at home

      It’s easy to understand why so many people are furious with Fergus and Judith Wilson. Britain’s largest landlords have made vast profits on the back of the urgent housing needs of others, which alone could be enough to raise eyebrows. But they also have the habit of saying controversial and inflammatory things. First they announced that they would refuse to let to housing benefit tenants. Now they confirm that prospective tenants on zero-hours contracts will be turned away too.

      But save your vitriol because they are not alone. As the Guardian reported last week, many private landlords are taking the same decision. Major lettings agencies are refusing to take earnings from zero-hours employment into account in the referencing process. A quick web search reveals that, on the most popular landlord forums, the growth in zero-hours contracts is causing a huge problem for the (also fast expanding) private rented sector.

      As one landlord puts it: “The zero-hours employee may be the victim but that is no reason to inflict the resultant misfortune on the landlord.”

      Insecure jobs, insecure housing, insecure society…

      So, tell me, who’s taking the risks because it sure doesn’t appear to be the capitalists.

      • Ergo Robertina 31.2.1

        Thanks for the link Draco, it would be interesting to know to what extent zero hours contracts are on the radar of landlords here. Similar dynamics here in the rental market with large numbers of younger people who can’t buy their first home, meaning landlords are getting the upper hand.
        Treen’s been on Morning Report this morning about the contracts, and while it was a bit of a wind up by Susie Ferguson, at least the story’s finally getting on the radar.
        I just hope it widens into a debate on health, housing, fairness, and a push for a consumer boycott of the corporate thugs.

  30. lprent 33

    Test replies with non logged in

    • karol 33.1

      fine when I’m not logged in. When I am logged in, the reply tab is there, but there’s a load of code in it. Also a load of code at the top of the page.

      • lprent 33.1.1

        Should be OK now.

        • karol

          Yes! It is. Can access Relies while logged in – code has gone.

          Thanks heaps!

          • lprent

            No sweat. Just a little cursing.

            I was thinking that it might be a good idea to either put that as the first tab, or alternatively to let the cookies keep track of preferences and to set the last tab(s). Assuming I can figure out how to get the tabs to do that of course.

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