Open mike 14/01/2024

108 comments on “Open mike 14/01/2024 ”

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1. bwaghorn 1

   14 January 2024 at 6:50 am

   https://www.teaonews.co.nz/2024/01/13/that-boys-got-hope-the-tiny-gesture-that-gave-a-judge-hope-for-a-troubled-teen/

   A ray of hope for youth offending, as long as the nats don't dismantle it for boot camps.

   And maybe all judges should be bought down from on high to sit eye to eye with those they judge.
2. Ad 2

   14 January 2024 at 6:51 am

   Lai Ching-Te wins the Taiwan election and is very strong on clearer autonomy from China.

   Expect Xi to fire up, and Biden to respond. To start with.
   • Dennis Frank 2.1

     14 January 2024 at 7:09 am

     China responded soon after the vote by saying “Taiwan is part of China.”

     https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/13/asia/taiwan-presidential-election-results-intl-hnk/index.html

     Yeah, just like Aotearoa is part of the British empire. History is a powerful dream., particularly when you keep on dreaming it…
   • SPC 2.2

     14 January 2024 at 9:11 am

     Clearer on declaring an autonomous Taiwan without making a claim of independence from China.

     Taiwan's corporates will do the Hong Kong shuffle and produce more offshore for the growing world market.

     China will one day blockade, and (fast missile) sink any fleet sent to prevent this – thus the 1949 reprise (when the US fleet allowed the Nationalists to move on Taiwan). Then offer Taiwan autonomy within China, rather than invasion/occupation.
   • UncookedSelachimorpha 2.3

     14 January 2024 at 9:25 am

     And he won despite China's malicious interference in Taiwan's elections.

     China's bullying and abuse of its democratic neighbour is appalling.
3. Dennis Frank 3

   14 January 2024 at 7:30 am

   Having a delusional geopolitical stance is sensible: it anchors a nation firmly in the traditionalist camp: conservative is good.

   Realists do the usual eye-roll at this puerile shit:

   Following Taiwan’s election result, a spokesperson for China’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs said no matter “whatever changes take place in Taiwan, the basic fact that there is only one China in the world and Taiwan is part of China will not change.”

   The spokesperson continued: “The one-China principle is the solid anchor for peace and stability in the Taiwan Strait. We believe that the international community will continue to adhere to the one-China principle and understand and support the Chinese people’s just cause of opposing ‘Taiwan independence’ separatist activities and striving to achieve national reunification.”

   A spokesperson for China’s Taiwan Affairs Office earlier insisted the election result “does not represent the mainstream view on the island.”

   The regime quite properly notes that democracy doesn't represent the mainstream view. It's merely a simulation. However, floating this assertion tacitly is so subtle a framing that it will go over the heads of most punters. Any competent political consultant would tell them to spit the dummy: "Guys, ya gotta tell it like it is real simple, y'know?"

   Paternalism often works. Give everyone a firm instruction. Use moral authority: "The USA, the UK, and China are adamant that the One China Policy is the verdict of history, and will be retained forever." This is a safe move, given that Brits & Yanks of all political persuasions have been united in promoting this mass delusion my entire life.

   Yet conservative solidarity has only ever worked on the basis of the mass moron theory of politics. You give the people shit & they swallow it. Human nature. What if a critical mass of humans don't operate like that? Conservatives don't like to consider such an awful possibility. Like pseudo-progressives (Labour) they pretend reality isn't really there. In reality, you get realpolitik producing outcomes. In geopolitics, this has mostly been driven by the principle of state sovereignty: nations are in the habit of recognising states in control of their territory. Which points to sovereignty in Taiwan being real…

   https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/13/asia/taiwan-presidential-election-results-intl-hnk/index.html
   • mikesh 3.1

     14 January 2024 at 8:30 am

     Without US, and Western, support of Taiwan, accompanied by the threat of military backup, I suspect the "one China" theme would have been a reality long since. But the West probably has its own agenda in the region.
     • Dennis Frank 3.1.1

       14 January 2024 at 8:47 am

       the West probably has its own agenda

       Playing both sides of the game – what Stalin excelled at. And it has worked rather well so far for the establishment. It helps to also be part of the UN umpire's admin.
   • SPC 3.2

     14 January 2024 at 9:21 am

     Which points to sovereignty in Taiwan being real…

     Ukraine's sovereignty over its 1945 and 1991 borders was and is real in international law.

     And will be made so to the extent the USA (both parties) is prepared to confront a nuclear armed Russian state to realise this.

     The Taiwan peoples desire to be a real nation state will not occur (in the current geo-political order) – China has a veto in the UNSC and in international law is part of China. Independence could only occur by finding military partners prepared to go to war against China and also able to win. Tell it to MacArthur. It is as mad as the PNAC agenda for the 21st C.
     • Dennis Frank 3.2.1

       14 January 2024 at 10:21 am

       Depends if the yanks & brits continue to maintain the status quo: supporting Chinese imperialism. Some kid may point out that the emperor isn't wearing an impressive suit of clothes at all. The delusion only works if nobody breaks the spell.
     • Morrissey 3.2.2

       14 January 2024 at 11:03 am

       And will be made so to the extent the USA (both parties) is prepared to confront a nuclear armed Russian state to realise this.

       Which they are not prepared to do. They are prepared to sacrifice Ukrainian lives in their proxy war, however.

       https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kremlin-blinkens-kyiv-visit-says-us-is-ready-fund-war-the-last-ukrainian-2023-09-06/
4. Dennis Frank 4

   14 January 2024 at 8:04 am

   Red Sea as neolib artery, Yemen as cancer spreading onto the boundary of that…

   When the Biden administration removed the Houthis from the list of designated terrorist groups and withdrew Patriot air defence systems from Saudi Arabia, the Saudis had even more reason to doubt America.

   https://unherd.com/2024/01/how-the-west-can-stop-the-houthis/

   Cue Biden's apology to the American people: "Looks like I stuffed up, eh? Sorry, folks, won't do it again. I'll muse over the feasibility of making Donald Trump my resident geopolitical advisor, because clearly our CFR hasn't got an effing clue."

   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Members_of_the_Council_on_Foreign_Relations
   • mikesh 4.1

     14 January 2024 at 8:40 am

     I'll muse over the feasibility of making Donald Trump my resident geopolitical advisor,

     Because, of course, Kissenger is no longer with us.
   • Muttonbird 4.2

     14 January 2024 at 10:09 am

     In 2023, Mohammed bin Salman, Saudi Arabia’s Crown Prince, renewed diplomatic relations with Iran, reopened his country’s Embassy in Tehran after seven years and welcomed a series of high-level Iranian officials to Riyadh. The reconciliation between Tehran and Riyadh was brokered by Beijing, not Washington. Part of this process involved a ceasefire in Yemen which continues today…

     …Now, these two states benefit from a fragile peace with Iran and are not interested in a renewed confrontation with Iran’s proxies in Yemen.

     Seems like an excellent development in the region. Why on earth would the US (and presumably Israel) not be in favour of this, I wonder?
5. Hunter Thompson II 5

   14 January 2024 at 8:52 am

   In a well coordinated operation, a team of thieves has removed a large crop of blueberries from 700 bushes in a Hawkes Bay orchard. The owner of the orchard thinks it would have required vehicles, equipment, lights and crates.

   Now that's organised crime for you.
   • Pat 5.1

     14 January 2024 at 9:01 am

     Seems a lot of effort for a few hundred kilos of blueberries….cant imagine theres much of a black market for them.
     • weka 5.1.1

       14 January 2024 at 10:40 am

       yeah, I'm trying to see how they could be sold. Farmers Markets?

       https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/country/506517/hundreds-of-kilograms-of-blueberries-stolen-from-hawke-s-bay-farm

       Also of note,

       "It was ghastly," Hirst said. "And what it means is, our team is standing there with their work gone. The foreman, the assistant foreman, all planning to work, packhouse people, gate sales and markets, all those people don't have their work and their money."

       Unless the farm is folding, what that means is those people have no job security. My questions are,

       1. are horticulture farms not able to get insurance for events like this, or is it that they just don't?
       2. why is this industry allowed to operate like this?

       By all means blame the thieves, but it could easily have been weather, so yet again that industry needs to take a long hard look at how it operates.
       • Robert Guyton 5.1.1.1

         14 January 2024 at 10:50 am

         Picking blueberries under lights can't have been easy.

         " vehicles, equipment, lights and crates" should have left plenty of evidence for the police to work on.

         Inside job on an outside crop? You'd have to have been familiar with the fruit and the picking process, plus storage and distribution.

         It is curious to consider how much packhouse work would have been lost, given the speed with which the crop was picked – how much processing is there in that relatively small amount of crop? Did they pick through the night? How many crates were filled?

         It's an odd tale…
         • weka 5.1.1.1.1

           14 January 2024 at 10:56 am

           headlamps? Blueberry bushes aren't that tall right?

           Maybe it was former blueberry industry workers who have lost work/jobs 😈 Blackmarket unions arising in the vacuum created by NZ’s employment law.
           • Robert Guyton 5.1.1.1.1.1

             14 January 2024 at 12:05 pm

             "In conclusion, the best time of day to pick blueberries is in the morning when the sun is still low and the berries are at their juiciest. It is important to follow the steps outlined above to ensure you are picking the fruit at its peak and storing it properly. With a little bit of knowledge and preparation, you can enjoy the delicious taste of fresh-picked blueberries all summer long."

             https://shuncy.com/article/best-time-of-day-to-pick-blueberries
         • Hunter Thompson II 5.1.1.1.2

           14 January 2024 at 1:56 pm

           I agree it seems a bit strange – sounds like quite a lot of work.

           Surely there are easier ways to make a dishonest living?
           • Robert Guyton 5.1.1.1.2.1

             14 January 2024 at 2:16 pm

             I suspect a gang, led by Violet Beauregarde.
             • Macro …

               14 January 2024 at 2:57 pm

               The birds got all of our crop – except for 3! hehehe I got a taste.
           • weka 5.1.1.1.2.2

             14 January 2024 at 3:30 pm

             I'm not sure making a dishonest living is easy at the best of times. Maybe someone wanted a big feed? Or they're making jam.
       • Cricklewood 5.1.1.2

         14 January 2024 at 4:47 pm

         Generally crop insurance is completely cost prohibative in terms of orchards etc as there are to many thing that go wrong will the crop is still on the plant so to speak.

         In terms of picking teams and packhouses staff move around the various orchards picking to a schedule and the packhouses are seperate again with most staff only working when fruit is coming in. Its always been highly season work. There are quite a few people that follow the circuit around the country its a lifestyle I guess.

         Fyi commercial blueberries generally grow to around 1.8m tall and are generally picked over quite carefully as the fruit ripen gradually.

         In this case it sounds like they just stripped the plants completely either way its a very strange thing to have happen lots of effort for a few thousand dollars if you can sell them.

         Have to wonder if it was done due to a greivance perhaps not paying a picking crew or something?
         • weka 5.1.1.2.1

           14 January 2024 at 5:25 pm

           thanks Cricklewood, all very interesting. It is strange. MSM have done PR pieces for the industry before, so maybe we're not getting the whole picture.

           A few thousand dollars is ok for a nights work I guess. Maybe they were picking to order?

           I'm aware of the nature of seasonal work and the people that do it as a lifestyle. The industry also relies on overseas visitors who want to make some cash while they travel and don't care so much about things like employment agreements, holiday/sick pay, having enough income to pay for rent and so on.

           The problem is that workers don't have their right protected. I can't see a good rationale of that other than this is the way things are done.
   • Robert Guyton 5.2

     14 January 2024 at 10:18 am

     Avocados went the same way, not so long ago.

     Good though, that Kiwis are eating fresh fruit!
6. Mike the Lefty 6

   14 January 2024 at 9:26 am

   Came across an interesting item on National Radio's Evenings show on Jan 13.

   Poet Tusiata Avia was recently awarded a $60,000 Prime Minister's award prize for a poem which (quite savagely) attacked colonialism and fantasised about someone killing James Cook instead of welcoming him to New Zealand.

   The ACT Party put out a press release under their member Todd Stephenson soon after ridiculing Avia for her work, complaining that tax payer money was being spent to support a racist, suggesting indirectly that Tavia was mentally ill and threatening to axe the prize completely if similar material ever happened again.

   Here we have the so-called "free speech party" threatening to close down literary works because they don't like the content and using their power as a governing party to publicly abuse someone who cannot fight back, except through words.

   ACT and literary achievement are obviously mutually exclusive concepts.

   links:

   http://www.rnz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018922108

   https://www.act.org.nz/act_condemns_60_000_poetry_award

   [link fixed to replace the https]
   • Ad 6.1

     14 January 2024 at 12:06 pm

     If Cook had been killed instead of du Fresne we'd have no Treaty but better cooking standards.
     • Robert Guyton 6.1.1

       14 January 2024 at 12:24 pm

       We'd be French toast!
   • Anker 6.2

     14 January 2024 at 1:30 pm

     Your link to Act's statement doesn't work. I know they criticised the work as racist. If they threatened to axe the prize, I am utterly against this.

     I think its a bad poem from a literary point of view, although I can only claim Stage One English at university as my credential to offer such criticism.

     I think it is a highly inflamatory poem though. I think it would be hard to argue with that (see link below).

     https://thespinoff.co.nz/books/27-02-2023/how-to-read-a-poem
     Hey James,
     it’s us.
     These days
     we’re driving round
     in SUVs
     looking for ya
     or white men like you
     who might be thieves
     or rapists
     or kidnappers
     or murderers
     yeah, or any of your descendants
     or any of your incarnations
     cos, you know
     ay, bitch?
     We’re gonna F… YOU UP.
     Obviously there would be an absolute outcry if the races were reversed. So the discussion about the poem is worth having. I tend to think it is a silly poem, but would the poet be held responsible if some young kids got out and did what she suggested? In others words is this incitment to violence?
     In a world where people cry geniocide if they are “misgendered” thinking this poem is fine, shows a great deal of hypocracy
     • David 6.2.1

       14 January 2024 at 2:55 pm

       And because Mike fundamentally misrepresented what ACT said, here's a link to the press release:

       ACT Condemns $60,000 Poetry Award | Scoop News

       Let Tusiata fund her racist, vile rantings on her own dime.
     • weka 6.2.2

       14 January 2024 at 3:27 pm

       Obviously there would be an absolute outcry if the races were reversed.

       The poem is about brown women's responses to colonial history. Avia is talking about killing white colonialist men who abused their positions of power and raped, kidnapped and murdered Polynesian women.

       What would be the reverse of that?
       • David 6.2.2.1

         14 January 2024 at 3:37 pm

         "Avia is talking about killing white colonialist men who abused their positions of power and raped, kidnapped and murdered Polynesian women."

         No, she isn't. 'These days' is today. And there were no SUV's when "white colonialist men…" "…abused their positions of power and raped, kidnapped and murdered Polynesian women."

         And if you want to argue she's employing poetic license, you will need to explain away why she says "we're going to F… YOU UP" with reference to any of your descendants".

         The poem is filth, plain and simple.
         • weka 6.2.2.1.1

           14 January 2024 at 4:02 pm

           It's not poetic licence, it's an actual poem. If you read a poem literally as you would say a blog post in prose, you are likely to miss what is being said. It's a piece of art using a range of language forms that require us to set aside our literal brains for a moment. It's not the language of an instruction manual.

           No, she isn't. 'These days' is today.

           Ok, she is talking about a number of things in the poem.

           In my comment to anker, I was referring to anker's idea that the poem is racists and if this were reversed there would be an outcry. My comment was to lay out in simple terms the basic premise of the poem and to ask anker what she thinks would be the reverse of that.

           But since you brought it up, colonisation and the impacts of it still exist.

           I agree the descendants line is very challenging. Here's one way to understand it,

           The poet uses a list to outline the ways in which James Cook and those who carry the colonising mentality, are arseholes: “thieves / or rapists / or kidnappers / or murderers”.

           https://thespinoff.co.nz/books/27-02-2023/how-to-read-a-poem

           We can take 'descendants' as the cultural children of Cook.

           There's no problem with you hating the poem, but taking out sound bites and not understanding the meaning is a problem.
           • Anker 6.2.2.1.1.1

             14 January 2024 at 5:57 pm

             I think the part of the poem where she says'we’re driving round
             in SUVs
             looking for ya
             or white men like you
             who might be thieves
             or rapists
             or kidnappers
             or murderers
             yeah, or any of your descendants
             or any of your incarnations
             cos, you know
             ay, bitch?
             We’re gonna F… YOU UP."

             I guess the paralell might be a Moariori from the Chatham Island writing a poem that says "we are looking for brown men like you from the Taranaki Iwi which commited atrocities on the Chatam Island and we are going to F…k you up".

             I have been thinking about Pat's post yesterday with an article that is by or quotes Anne Salmond, talking about what happened in Serbia where very suddenly communities that got on well started othering people and it turned into an appalling war (she mentions neighbours raping their next doors wives).

             Negative sentiment towards a race can change very quickly it seems and this poem certainly is displaying negative sentiment towards white males. Its not so long ago that Marama said that the violence in the world is cause by cis white males. There have also been many warnings of violence if the opposition goes ahead with the plans of a referendum on the Treaty.

             I am not sure what the answer is. I don't think it is banning a poem though.
             • weka …

               14 January 2024 at 7:28 pm

               I'm not sure there would be an absolute outcry if a Chatham Islands poet wrote about their colonisation by Māori. I suspect it would either pass largely unnoticed, or there would be discussion along with racists using it to beat up Māori. Something along the lines of 'Māori are colonisers too' (as if we don't already know that) so shut up about white people. Here I am talking about people using that as part of their racism (which I see), I'm not talking about you.

               Negative sentiment towards a race can change very quickly it seems and this poem certainly is displaying negative sentiment towards white males.

               See this I don't get. Because the poem is clearly talking about men like Cook. White is a descriptor. She says,

               white men like you who might be thieves/rapists/kidnappers/murderers

               I'm wondering how you got from that to white men generally.

               Its not so long ago that Marama said that the violence in the world is cause by cis white males.

               She was very stupid to say that especially in the way that she did. It was compounded by her unwillingness to condemn the violence at Albert Park. If you are following the conversation between Molly and I today, you will see what I wrote about political ineptitude. MD's declaration was that of an activist, not of an MP with responsibilities to voters and constituents. There are ways to have the conversation about the role of Pākehā and men in violence and colonisation without coming across like Rik from the Young ones.

               There have also been many warnings of violence if the opposition goes ahead with the plans of a referendum on the Treaty.

               There have been a few that I have seen, not many. When they came from MPs like Jackson, that too was politically very unwise imo. MPs have a particular responsibility.

               When it comes from people within Māoridom I think it's worth considering why they might be reacting that way, and that calming that situation down comes from pulling back from the referendum and finding other ways to have the conversation.

               It's not like having a referendum on self ID, where we would almost certainly win. NZ is tipping towards reactionary pol at a fast rate, and a simplistic referendum on such a deeply important constitutional issues is just a bad, bad move. If we put the people talking about violence aside for a minute, there were also a number of progressives saying this is the hill they would die on. You will be familiar with that phrase from the GC movements.

               Imo ACT are trolling liberals with that referendum. It's politicking and unnecessary. I don't believe they misunderstood how deeply protective many people feel about the Treaty, I think they knew exactly what they were doing.
               • weka …

                 14 January 2024 at 7:29 pm

                 But Avia is a poet, not an MP. The rules are different for poets.
               • David …

                 14 January 2024 at 8:09 pm

                 "Because the poem is clearly talking about men like Cook. White is a descriptor."

                 Yes, men like Cook (who are white), who 'might be thieves or kidnappers or murderers' (emphasis mine).

                 Don't you see the racial profiling going on there?
                 • weka …

                   14 January 2024 at 9:26 pm

                   No, I don't. She's talking about the people of European descent that colonised the Pacific since the 1700s. What is wrong with naming them as white?

                   we’re driving round
                   in SUVs
                   looking for ya

                   She is clearly expressing non-literal truths, ideas and emotion. No-one here thinks Cook is still alive, so why take the other lines literally?
                   • weka …

                     14 January 2024 at 9:28 pm

                     I guess the point of addressing Cook directly and as if he is alive is because his legacy lives on. Hence driving around looking for the next lot of rapists and murders. As I said elsewhere in the thread, I'm ok with people wanting to fuck up rapists and murders.
                   • David …

                     14 January 2024 at 9:53 pm

                     Perhaps the words 'might be' are problematic to me. Anyway, clearly we see this differently.
                   • weka []

                     14 January 2024 at 10:30 pm

                     might seems to me to be a poetic word in this context.

                     She’s a poet not a policeman.
             • David …

               14 January 2024 at 8:01 pm

               "I don't think it is banning a poem though."

               Of course not. But I'm unsure why we fund this kind of work that is essentially cultural elitism.
           • David 6.2.2.1.1.2

             14 January 2024 at 7:58 pm

             "but taking out sound bites and not understanding the meaning is a problem".

             The poem's meaning is open to interpretation. You've provided one version, but there are others. The expression "we're gonna F… YOU UP" is not a 'sound bite". It is a deliberately provocative, dare I say powerful, expression, that is intended to arouse strong emotions. Perhaps, in the end, the author has made her point.
             • weka …

               14 January 2024 at 9:20 pm

               or perhaps she is expressing strong emotions that brown women often haven't been able to.

               Myself, I don't have too much trouble with her wanting to fuck up rapists and murderers, but then I'm taking her literally.
     • AB 6.2.3

       14 January 2024 at 4:26 pm

       I assume she got the prize for an entire body of work, not this short verse. So it has to be considered in that context. If this was meant to stand alone as a poem in itself, then it's quite thin conceptually in its understanding of history and emotionally limited to just pure rage. But if it's part of a longer work where many different voices cover the same ground but with differing and overlapping perspectives and emotional tones , then it might be part of quite a rich and rewarding poem. I don't know her writing at all, so couldn't say any more than that. Other than to note that literary quality is a real thing, it's not just a matter of personal preference. But basing the judgment of it on any repeatable set of objective criteria is completely impossible. The people who judge such awards generally have some background that one would expect to help them to make good decisions, but they can also be captured by fashionable agendas.
       • Anker 6.2.3.1

         14 January 2024 at 5:23 pm

         AB the full poem is in the link. It is part of a longer body of work, a book by the same name as the poem I think
7. Reality 7

   14 January 2024 at 9:35 am

   Jacinda and Clarke's long awaited wedding was a joyful celebration with their friends and families. I felt relieved and pleased that after all the responsibilities and challenges they have faced they finally had their day to remember. Both looked stunning and very happy.

   Shame about the Daily Mail helicopter intrusion and pathetic protesters.
   • SPC 7.1

     14 January 2024 at 9:48 am

     The Beehive Civilian notes that while it is common to marry while pregnant with ones first born, there is an exemption for those PM elect.

     And while it is most uncommon for a mother of a child to marry in white, there is an exemption if the bridegroom wears black and it is Hawkeye territory.

     https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/01/the-big-day-everything-we-know-about-dame-jacinda-ardern-s-wedding.html
     • alwyn 7.1.1

       14 January 2024 at 2:35 pm

       And there was I thinking that the woman/white men/black was explained by this old saw.

       'A little boy at a wedding asks his Mom, "Mommy how come bride's wear white dresses at their wedding." The Mom responds "Well because it's the happiest day of her life." The kid responds "Then how come the groom wears black?"'

       And no, it has absolutely nothing the do with the couple concerned in this story. Jacinda certainly looked great in her dress, didn't she?
   • Anne 7.2

     14 January 2024 at 10:08 am

     

     I bet those official photos of Jacinda and Clarke have swept around the world. Jacinda looked magnificent. What a contrast she makes to her venom filled detractors of both sexes.

     I note a story/podcast plus happy family photo has emerged today about Luxon's wife's views on her marriage, Coincidence? I doubt it. No, I'm not going to link to it. Anyone who is interested can go to the Herald website – Lifestyle section.
     • Muttonbird 7.2.1

       14 January 2024 at 10:46 am

       It’s strategic from Paula Benefit and the Herald. They couldn’t let Jacinda marry, hog the spotlight, and send out those photos without having a cry.
       • Anne 7.2.1.1

         14 January 2024 at 11:52 am

         

         A Paula Bennett heist to steal limelight from Jacinda. That woman is so transparent.
     • mary_a 7.2.2

       14 January 2024 at 2:11 pm

       Hi Anne … and it's also worth noting the piece about Luxon's wife's views on marriage (who cares), follows directly below the article and photo of Jacinda and Clarke after their wedding!

       [Please fix your email address in your next comment, thanks – Incognito]
       • Incognito 7.2.2.1

         14 January 2024 at 2:25 pm

         Mod note
       • Anne 7.2.2.2

         14 January 2024 at 4:20 pm

         The " Amanda Luxon" story has not only pushed Jacinda and Clarke's wedding off 'Lifestyle' but she's now got the red revolving headline along the top. 😉
         • Robert Guyton 7.2.2.2.1

           14 January 2024 at 7:46 pm

           Jacinda probably doesn't give.
     • David 7.2.3

       14 January 2024 at 3:04 pm

       It's all dirty politics, Anne. The Herald piece on Amanda L was not only intended to detract from Jacinda and Clarke's wedding, but also to accentuate fashion clothing, thereby giving the MSM another opportunity to have a dig at Golriz Ghahraman. I'd put money on a link between the family Luxon and the owners of Scotties Boutique – probably a big National donor.

       (all /sarc).
       • Anne 7.2.3.1

         14 January 2024 at 4:28 pm

         It's all dirty politics, Anne.

         Nah. Just the Nats and cohorts playing their usual game of 'one-up-man-ship'. (not sarc.)

         Silly attempt, because she doesn't come within coo-ee of Jacinda Ardern. 🙂
         • David 7.2.3.1.1

           14 January 2024 at 5:22 pm

           Have you considered the possibility that you’re over-egging the whole thing just a little?
           • Anne 7.2.3.1.1.1

             14 January 2024 at 6:56 pm

             Have you considered the possibility that playing the one-up-man-ship game is common-place in politics, particularly among the right wingers, or are you just ignorant and a misogynist?
             • David …

               14 January 2024 at 7:14 pm

               Have you considered the possibility that no-one really gives a toss about Ardern, Bennett or anyone else, and that it's only you and a hand full of other tin foil hat wearers who see conspiracy here?
               • weka …

                 14 January 2024 at 7:38 pm

                 sounds like you are the one over-egging things.

                 I just read Anne's comments and all she has said is that the timing of the Luxon story was deliberate. That's not Dirty Politics, that's just normal political strategy and comms.

                 I'm not in moderator mode quite yet, but you certainly have my attention. I suggest backing off from the tinfoil accusations and focusing on the politics, because at the moment you look like a troll.

                 Read the site Policy too (top of the page).
                 • David …

                   14 January 2024 at 8:23 pm

                   My comment related to a number of Anne's posts that claimed a variety of events were the result of some kind of conspiracy. Anne seemed to understand and responded with good grace. But thanks, I'll accept the warning.
                   • weka …

                     14 January 2024 at 9:21 pm

                     it would help if you were specific when you are referring to past comments and discussions ie link.
                 • Anne …

                   14 January 2024 at 9:18 pm

                   @ weka,

                   David @ 8:23pm is probably referring to my comments re – Golriz Ghahraman.

                   When someone has been leaking information that is not coming from any of the people directly involved (including the Green leaders) and it transpires that the original news source was ZB radio, and one of the tale tellers happens to be closely associated with Cameron Slater who has apparently been twittering about it since, then you just know that dirty politics is in there somewhere. One doesn't need to resort to conspiracy theories to figure that out.

                   I say to David:
                   Sorting the facts from the fiction coming from NAct and their enablers as many of us here try to do, does not constitute conspiracy in the accepted sense of the word.
           • Muttonbird 7.2.3.1.1.2

             14 January 2024 at 7:09 pm

             You'd have to be a little (wilfully) naive to pretend Benefit's AMA installment wasn't timed to drop the day after the wedding. I imagine Benefit wanted to do it on the day of the wedding but wiser head prevailed.

             In the print precision of the interview it doesn't say anything about Amanda Luxon's career. Has she ever worked outside the family? Her kids are late teens so there has been plenty of time for her to find a job and indeed Benefit herself required mums to get off the couch once their kids turned 5 if I recall correctly…

             …also, with the biceps. If you squint she could be a man.
             • David …

               14 January 2024 at 7:17 pm

               You're obviously well down the rabbit hole. Bennett is more likely setting herself up for a mayoral run than trying to compete with an ex PM. As for the Luxon's, puff pieces like that are common. Do you seriously think either Luxon or Bennett timed their PR campaigns to one-up Ardern?
               • Muttonbird …

                 14 January 2024 at 7:40 pm

                 I see comprehension isn't your strong point.

                 Benefit is not competing with Jacinda Ardern (that happened already and the result was clear), and her ambitions for Auckland mayoralty are absolutely in line with running puff pieces on Amanda Luxon at convenient moments. How else does Benefit attract the required support and funding?
             • Robert Guyton …

               14 January 2024 at 7:37 pm

               "If you squint she could be a man."

               So good, Muttonbird. I appreciate your sense of humour here.
   • Mike the Lefty 7.3

     14 January 2024 at 1:28 pm

     There would always have to be a few conspiracy theorist misanthropes to try and spoil Jacinda and Clarke's big day. Nutters like that can't help themselves, the gene pool might be seriously small.
8. Grey Area 8

   14 January 2024 at 10:36 am

   I note that Amanda Luxon doesn't want be referred to as "First Lady". Just as well as we don't use that term in Aotearoa New Zealand.
   • weka 8.1

     14 January 2024 at 10:58 am

     haha.
   • mary_a 8.2

     14 January 2024 at 2:17 pm

     @ Grey Area (8) … we could call her " the Gym Lady."
9. Molly 9

   14 January 2024 at 11:33 am

   Just a Sunday afternoon musing, but did anyone catch this real-life Coen brother happening in China in 2019?

   Came up on my twitter feed, and I found the BBC article which gave me a chuckle. …Can't find anyone to do the work these days….

   https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-50137450

   "Hesitant hitmen jailed over botched assassination in China

   Businessman Tan Youhui hired a hitman to "take out" his competitor for $282,000 (£218,000), a court heard.

   But the hitman hired another man to do the job, offering $141,000. That man hired another hitman, who hired another hitman, who hired another hitman.

   The plan crumbled when the final hitman met the man, named only as Wei, in a cafe and proposed faking his death.

   All six men – the five hitmen and Tan – were convicted of attempted murder by the court in Nanning, Guangxi, following a trial that lasted three years."
   • SPC 9.1

     14 January 2024 at 11:49 am

     Talk about a corrupt court, the 5th hitman only sought to fake Tan's death and planning to have the state declare a living person to be dead, is not an attempt to kill him, but to liberate him from a life as Tan in a communist party ruled nation.
     • Molly 9.1.1

       14 January 2024 at 12:07 pm

       I did admire the resourcefulness of the final hitman, who met up with the target to discuss faking his death.

       No stylised John Wick movie script, rather a comedy of errors along the lines of Fargo.
     • SPC 9.1.2

       14 January 2024 at 12:40 pm

       Wei=Tan.
   • Dennis Frank 9.2

     14 January 2024 at 12:00 pm

     Free enterprise seems to be catching on there. I've got an excellent history of the Chinese triads. Check out the cool photo of the leader of one with a million members holding the broom with which Mao made him sweep the streets of Shanghai in 1950!

     It's in Zhang Zhiheng's account of it: https://www.quora.com/Do-triads-still-exist-in-China-today

     Just scroll down the contributors to the answer & you'll see his name.
     • Molly 9.2.1

       14 January 2024 at 12:09 pm

       Thanks, Dennis.

       It's not surprising there would be some remnants now. The immersion and investment in such organisations would have been huge, and the fear hard to relinquish entirely.
   • Ad 9.3

     14 January 2024 at 12:03 pm

     Isn't Phaic Tan a Tai tourist beach?
     • Molly 9.3.1

       14 January 2024 at 12:13 pm

       Thanks for that Ad.

       Two minutes of my life I'll never get back reading this somewhat interesting – but ultimately useless – factoid. Which exposed my lack of knowledge, to enjoy your punnish humour.

       https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phaic_T%C4%83n#:~:text=misusing%20a%20gun.-,Geography%20and%20provinces,the%20north%20and%20east%20respectively.

       If I'm ever in the unlikely position of being on a popular quiz show, I may be in touch to ask if you will be my "Phone a Friend"…
   • UncookedSelachimorpha 9.4

     14 January 2024 at 12:36 pm

     Subcontracting gone mad.
10. mikesh 10

    14 January 2024 at 12:35 pm

    Does Britain have an armaments industry? And, if so, is that industry expecting to receive a billion pounds worth of business from Ukraine?

    Or am I just being a bit too cynical?
    • UncookedSelachimorpha 10.1

      14 January 2024 at 12:55 pm

      I'm sure you know – the UK has a huge arms industry.

      So (as in the USA) much of the donated support remains in the donor country, not 'bags of money given to Zelenskyy' as russia's supporters like to say.

      Be great not to need an arms industry, but then you have countries like russia that force war and subjugation upon their neighbours.

      Russia has increased its military budget by 70% year on year, to 40% of its entire expenditure – USD 109 billion military spending planned for 2024. Combined with russia's unprovoked attacks on multiple neighbours and imperialist rhetoric, this forces everyone else to increase their defence spending.
      • Morrissey 10.1.1

        14 January 2024 at 1:10 pm

        as russia's supporters like to say.

        You seem confused. Critiquing the U.S. government and its client states, like Ukraine, Saudi Arabia, and Israel does not make one a supporter of Russia.

        … countries like russia that force war and subjugation upon their neighbours.

        Such wildly one-sided and unscholarly rants against Russia tell us nothing about the subject in hand, but they do reveal a lot about you.
        • UncookedSelachimorpha 10.1.1.1

          14 January 2024 at 1:42 pm

          The point is, it is wildly one-sided.

          When did another country make war against russia, invade or subjugate it, post WWII?

          While the list of countries that russia has invaded and/or subjugated since WWII, is long.
          • Morrissey 10.1.1.1.1

            14 January 2024 at 7:08 pm

            It's about one-twentieth of the number of countries invaded and subjugated by the United States.
      • aj 10.1.2

        14 January 2024 at 7:58 pm

        " this forces everyone else to increase their defence spending"

        List of countries with highest military expenditures:

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures
    • Dennis Frank 10.2

      14 January 2024 at 1:45 pm

      When the yanks went after Saddam I was bemused. British capitalists had spent an entire decade arming Iraq. Thatcher, otoh, was likely not amused, in the style of her queen. I found all the media stories about the gung ho British armaments industry quite tedious back then.

      However I had years earlier when Reagan was doing his thing written him an angry letter telling him to stop supporting right wing dictatorships all over the place so you could argue that my letter had a belated impact. At least, that's the impression I got when Bush Sr took out Noriega after the little drug-dealing ruler of Panama waved his machete on prime-time tv news too much.

      Hmm, I thought, so the CFR finally got it right – time-lag around 4 years, perhaps not too bad a performance for chronic conservatives…
11. Muttonbird 11

    14 January 2024 at 1:08 pm

    https://i.imgur.com/7UbFp7Q.jpeg
    • Muttonbird 11.1

      14 January 2024 at 1:23 pm

      
      • Anker 11.1.1

        14 January 2024 at 1:38 pm

        Beautiful photo
      • Dennis Frank 11.1.2

        14 January 2024 at 1:49 pm

        The thumb in the pocket was very much a trad macho stance, back in the days when guys did the wall-flower thing around the fringe of a party. Unusual to see it exhibited by such a young feller.
      • mary_a 11.1.3

        14 January 2024 at 4:17 pm

        A lovely couple, looking so happy.
      • Patricia Bremner 11.1.4

        15 January 2024 at 12:59 am

        A lovely couple. So pleased for them.
12. Dennis Frank 12

    14 January 2024 at 2:52 pm

    Is this a good news story or what?!

    Auckland’s light rail has officially been tossed on the scrap heap by the National-led coalition government. Transport minister Simeon Brown put the final nail in the coffin of the multi-billion dollar project on Sunday after a stop work notice was issued to the project last year after the government came to power. “Scrapping the expensive project is part of the coalition agreements and we have taken swift action,” Brown said.

    The project, which was expected to take up to 14,500 vehicles off the road, was intended to link a light rail system between the city centre and Māngere and Auckland Airport.

    Ak's constipation status is no longer under threat! That's the good news. We can expect it to get worse as neolib choke-point, making the incoming govt seem clueless. Ak's destiny as trash-pile now seems inevitable. Labour will be devastated: "It was our Green credibility front-runner. Instead of seeming progressive, we would have gone down in history as actually progressive."

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/301039545/government-pulls-the-pin-on-multibillion-dollar-auckland-light-rail-project
    • Visubversa 12.1

      14 January 2024 at 5:04 pm

      Pre Covid, bus traffic on Symonds St was 100 bus movements per hour in peak times. Symonds St is a bus sewer and it does not matter how any double deckers you put on it, it will not keep up with population pressure.

      They have been talking about some sort of light rail or separated busway on Dominion Rd for decades. Auckland City Council even bought some property in strategic areas to enable the transit mode to go around the back of the areas with the most heritage street frontages.

      With the major redevelopment in Owairaka, the pressure on Sandringham Rd, Dominion Rd and New North Road will become even greater.

      If the last Government had not played silly buggers with expensive tunnels to placate the noisy Dominion Rd business people who did not want the disruption of construction, this could have been well under way by now.
      • Dennis Frank 12.1.1

        14 January 2024 at 5:21 pm

        One would expect Luxon to feel obliged to come up with Plan B, even if only to prevent the inevitable Ak swing back to Labour if he doesn't. It will be interesting to see how he handles media questions around that. A professional politician would already have an angle figured out, and added a preliminary consensus in principle with the two minor leaders to that. If he hasn't, he'll seem to be floundering…
      • Cricklewood 12.1.2

        14 January 2024 at 7:20 pm

        A dedicated busway would be the best bet imo, we'll also need to get some land back off the ports for the exchange apperently theres not alot of capacity to put more busses into the city.

        Could get rid of the carparks on Dominion road to make space. Theres a massive underutilized carpark on balmoral dominion intersection so should hurt all the resteraunts. Its an improvment that could be done comparativly easily.
        • Visubversa 12.1.2.1

          14 January 2024 at 8:58 pm

          Good luck with that idea. The Dominion Rd business people fight for every car parking space. They already complain about every second of the bus lanes.
13. Muttonbird 13

    14 January 2024 at 7:59 pm

    Of the four news sites that I regularly look at, Leighton Heilkill at Newshub was the only one which didn't credit the wedding photographer. Kind of annoying.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/01/the-big-day-everything-we-know-about-dame-jacinda-ardern-s-wedding.html
14. Muttonbird 14

    14 January 2024 at 8:21 pm

    A fool and his money are soon parted.

    Easy come easy go for those with huge amounts of disposable cash to invest, but why do they cry foul of banks when they themselves have very poor personal security practices?

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/consumer-nz-calls-for-asb-to-refund-scam-victims-100k-loss-due-to-substandard-bank-security-systems/76EFIOGKBBDK7IAGCOARDPAO7M/

    My debt card was compromised once, the details of which had been sold by some entity I had purchased something from. One day $400 was stolen in a series of small amounts, a modest sum but a lot to my family. The Kiwibank fraud specialist was very good and spent quite a bit of time with me.

    Apparently, banks have long wanted increased security measures, particularly cool off periods for online purchases/transactions but consumers, businesses, and governments won't have it because it interferes with ease of business.

    So, suck it up soldier, and don't be so arrogantly stupid next time.
15. joe90 15

    14 January 2024 at 10:26 pm

    Our most recent waste water data is incomplete.

    @drseanmullen

    Explain to me how this TikTok’r gets it and “public health experts” don’t. MDs don’t. Share widely on multiple platforms.

    https://twitter.com/drseanmullen/status/1745635997558153369

    COVID levels are two to 19 times higher than numbers being reported around the world, a WHO official said Friday, citing wastewater data.

    The news comes as the organization warns of the yet unknown dangers of repeat COVID infection, which can occur without symptoms.

    […]

    “Five years, 10 years, 20 years from now, what are we going to see in terms of cardiac impairment, pulmonary impairment, neurologic impairment? It’s year five in the pandemic, but there’s still a lot we don’t know about it.”

    https://fortune.com/well/2024/01/12/covid-jn1-pandemic-world-health-organization-warns-dangers-repeat-covid-infection-cardiac-pulmonary-neurologic/
    • joe90 15.1

      14 January 2024 at 11:13 pm

      JAMA freebie.

      From “Immunity Debt” to “Immunity Theft”—How COVID-19 Might Be Tied to Recent Respiratory Disease Surges

      https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2814028?guestAccessKey

      edit:
      direct link to X vid

      https://www.tiktok.com/@mudflapbrokentire/video/7318832123119553823
      • SPC 15.1.1

        15 January 2024 at 3:50 pm

        National the government that will not be of any help.

        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/fifth-wave-of-covid-19-hits-new-high-in-nz-as-govt-looks-at-ending-free-rats/XKFST2TBBFHW5BIEZXYAQ6YA6Q/
16. SPC 16

    15 January 2024 at 5:35 am

    Marijuana is neither as risky nor as prone to abuse as other tightly controlled substances and has potential medical benefits, and therefore should be removed from the nation’s most restrictive category of drugs, federal scientists have concluded.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/12/health/marijuana-fda-dea.html?unlocked_article_code=1.Nk0.OnWm.oMx4dSB0NpMo&smid=url-share

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