Open mike 15/04/2024

50 comments on “Open mike 15/04/2024 ”

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1. Jimmy 1

   15 April 2024 at 9:33 am

   When are these people going to learn that there are consequences to their actions and their actions such as not stopping for police etc. put themselves and others in danger. He has now paid the ultimate price for his actions.

   Body found on Mount Maunganui beach: Police investigating – NZ Herald
2. Stephen D 2

   15 April 2024 at 10:19 am

   When is the National party policy on anything going to be enacted?

   They have outsourced economic policy to Act, and foreign policy to NZ1.

   Are they just the driver, while the hoods in the back bark orders?
3. weka 3

   15 April 2024 at 10:57 am

   my preference is for Cass review discussion to go under the post. I included that link in the post itself for a reason as well as putting the NZ resources at the end.

   This is likely to be a high volume debate on TS, so it's good to put comments under posts rather than also in OM. It also means we don't end up duplicating comments or having to repeat ourselves.

   I can't move your comment now, would you mind reposting it over there and I will delete this one?
   • Anker 3.1

     15 April 2024 at 11:05 am

     sure
4. weka 4

   15 April 2024 at 11:07 am

   A bunch of racist, reactionary, inflammatory dickheads who appear incontinent spread the rumour that the Bondi Junction killer was this man. Worse, a major MSM outlet repeated the lie without fact checking or waiting for confirmation from the police.

   Ben Cohen speaks about the impact,

   https://twitter.com/Leo_Puglisi6/status/1779468138322821523
   • Anne 4.1

     15 April 2024 at 11:33 am

     Shit! I feel for him.

     Had something similar happen to me, but not over a crime of such a serious nature and it didn't play out in public. It is not only deeply distressing and hurtful, the consequences can play out for years afterwards. He should sue the MSM outlet for repeating the lie, but he probably won't and I can understand why.
     • weka 4.1.1

       15 April 2024 at 11:40 am

       apparently that MSM has form, so he probably has a good case.
   • joe90 4.2

     15 April 2024 at 1:31 pm

     Because Jews live in Bondi SkyNews Australia's Panahi, Dean, and co speculated that of course, it must be an antisemitic attack.
     • weka 4.2.1

       15 April 2024 at 1:37 pm

       but Cohen is a Jewish name?
       • joe90 4.2.1.1

         15 April 2024 at 1:50 pm

         This was just after first reports of the attack.
       • veutoviper 4.2.1.2

         15 April 2024 at 2:27 pm

         "but Cohen is a Jewish name?"

         Very much so, weka.

         https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cohen_(surname)#:~:text=Cohen%20(Hebrew%3A%20%D7%9B%D6%B9%D6%BC%D7%94%D6%B5%D7%9F%2C%20romanized,information%20discusses%20only%20that%20origin.

         "Cohen (Hebrew: כֹּהֵן, romanized: kōhēn, lit. 'priest'), also spelled Cohn, Kohn, or Kahn, is a surname of Jewish, Samaritan[1] and Biblical origins (see: Kohen). It is a very common Jewish surname (the most common in Israel),[2] and the following information discusses only that origin. Cohen is one of the four Samaritan last names that exist in the modern day. Many Jewish immigrants entering the United States or United Kingdom changed their name from Cohen to Cowan (sometimes spelled "Cowen"), as Cowan was a Scottish name.[3] The name "Cohen" is also used as a given name.[4]

         Origin[edit]

         Bearing the surname often (although not always) indicates that one's patrilineal ancestors were priests in the Temple of Jerusalem. Although not all Kohenic lines stem from Aaron, the brother of Moses, he is generally regarded as the patriarch of the lineage and the first Kohen. A single such priest was known as a Kohen, and the hereditary caste descending from these priests is collectively known as the Kohanim.[5] As multiple languages were acquired through the Jewish diaspora, the surname acquired dozens of variants. Not all persons with related surnames are kohanim, and not all kohanim have related surnames. …"

         Went to a high school and undergraduate college in the US where the student population were over 90% and c.80% respectively and Cohen and variants were probably the most common surnames. In fact share my undergrad alma mater (although some decades apart) with a certain Michael Cohen who is about to feature as a prime witness in a certain criminal court case in New York starting in a few hours time!
5. Jimmy 5

   15 April 2024 at 11:25 am

   Not sure if the site administrator needs to know this, when I went on to OM, it states "5 comments on Open Mike 15/04/2024" but there are only 3!

   Are the other two in moderation or waiting to be approved?

   No biggie but thought I would mention it.
   • weka 5.1

     15 April 2024 at 11:39 am

     I deleted a couple of comments that someone reposted in another post. It takes a while for the site to update (or your cache).
   • Obtrectator 5.2

     15 April 2024 at 12:17 pm

     While on the subject of site admin: in the last two days, clicking on the headline of various articles has taken me straight to the "Leave A Comment" box. No biggie (one can always scroll up), but thought I'd mention it.
     • weka 5.2.1

       15 April 2024 at 12:58 pm

       where are you doing the clicking? Front page?
       • Obtrectator 5.2.1.1

         15 April 2024 at 10:01 pm

         Yep.
         • lprent 5.2.1.1.1

           18 April 2024 at 2:19 pm

           Been working on something else for the last couple of days

           Weird. I was working on this site over the weekend changing the CDN, and trying to fix a issue with comments.

           Ummm just tested desktop theme on chrome/linux, firefox/linux, edge/windows, firefox/windows OK.

           Tested mobile theme on chrome/android, firefox/android. That looks ok as well.

           Tested desktop theme on firefox/android. The effect you described showed up on at least one post.

           This is probably a cache error at the CDN – it will be caching the post when it was targeted at the #respond link point and serving that to everyone.

           I will have a look at the settings at bunny.net
     • Tony Veitch 5.2.2

       15 April 2024 at 2:48 pm

       Same.
6. Robert Guyton 6

   15 April 2024 at 1:36 pm

   Stuff also refused to publish the views of climate-denialists!

   Hang on!

   We supported that move, didn't we???

   [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
   
   • Visubversa 6.1

     15 April 2024 at 2:09 pm

     The difference is the veracity of the science.
     • Robert Guyton 6.1.1

       15 April 2024 at 2:29 pm

       Sure; so it's okay to shut down a view that isn't supported by science.

       Science then, must support your views on women's rights/trans rights.

       Yes?
   • weka 6.2

     15 April 2024 at 2:18 pm

     If you want to run slur politics and imply that GC people are akin climate deniers, do it in OM.

     If you have something to actually add to the debate, then you can come back to the post with well made arguments and evidence, but it should be obvious by now that I have little patience for derails.
     • Robert Guyton 6.2.1

       15 April 2024 at 2:26 pm

       Well, I didn't did I.

       My question is: how is No Debate different from Stuff's, No Denial?
       • weka 6.2.1.1

         15 April 2024 at 2:36 pm

         I'm not going to spend time dragging this out of you. If you want to ask questions, then ask them directly. If you want to make ambiguous statements, then do it in OM.
         • Robert Guyton 6.2.1.1.1

           15 April 2024 at 5:55 pm

           My question is direct. Direct.

           My question is: How is No Debate different from Stuff's, No Denial?
           • weka 6.2.1.1.1.1

             15 April 2024 at 6:15 pm

             Hilary Cass spent 4 years investigating the treating of gender dysphoric children in England. She referenced international guidelines and research. She tried to do research in the UK but the adult gender clinics wouldn't release the data she needed (they are now being required to).

             No Debate was a political strategy designed to suppress all conversation about gender identity ideology that strayed from the dogma. There is a direct line between No Debate and the adult gender clinics refusing to release the data needed to assess if kids are being harmed. Medical people are afraid to speak out.

             None of that is analogous to a MSM outlet deciding to not platform climate denial (or indeed my own position to not allow climate denial under my posts). So I find your direct, but brief and generalised question difficult to understand.

             What it sounds like is you are suggesting that gender critical positions and/or the Cass review are promoting dangerous and scientifically illiterate and misleading information in order to persuade the public and powers that be to continue with BAU.
             • Robert Guyton …

               15 April 2024 at 6:52 pm

               "So I find your direct, but brief and generalised question difficult to understand."

               Agreed.

               "What it sounds like is you are suggesting…"

               Nope.
7. Drowsy M. Kram 7

   15 April 2024 at 1:49 pm

   Cuts to science and environment funding will hinder NZ’s climate response – scientists
   [15 April 2024]
   New Zealander of the Year Jim Salinger says government cuts to science funding will put Aotearoa even further behind other countries in terms of economic well-being and tackling climate change.

   Another New Zealander (of the year) stirring – pipe down, you stirrer (of the year) you.

   National vows to go back to drawing board on policy [3 May 2023]
   It’s a case of slower to go faster. … It’s a watch this space. – Luxon

   The 10 Countries Leading the Way on Climate Change [9 April 2024]
   Some countries are ahead of others when it comes to addressing climate change.

   No, Aotearoa NZ didn't make the top 10. Not even sure if we could be classed as a "fast follower" anymore – maybe a “slower to go faster” follower?

   Climate Change Minister Addresses Scepticism Around Methane Review [15 April 2024]
   "We want to make sure we've got the best system here that drives down emissions," Watts explains

   Downward pressure on emissions? A bit like downward pressure on rents, imho.
   Watt is the point of our CoC govt having a climate change minister? Time will tell.

   ‘Grownup’ leaders are pushing us towards catastrophe, says former US climate chief [14 April 2024]
   “We are slowed down by those who think of themselves as grownups and believe decarbonisation at the speed the climate community calls for is unrealistic,” said Todd Stern, who served as a special envoy for climate change under Barack Obama, and helped negotiate the 2015 Paris agreement.

   “They say that we need to slow down, that what is being proposed [in cuts to greenhouse gas emissions] is unrealistic,” he told the Observer. “”You see it a lot in the business world too. It’s really hard [to push for more urgency] because those ‘grownups’ have a lot of influence.

   New climate minister defends searching for more fossil fuels [6 Dec 2023]
   Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says the Government is committed to NZ’s climate targets, but won’t explain how they will be met or promise not to reduce climate finance to the Pacific

   Antarctica’s sea ice hit another low this year [15 April 2024]
   Animation of Antarctic sea ice maximum extent, September 10 2023, to its minimum, February 20 2024 [YouTube video – 1 minute]
8. Robert Guyton 8

   15 April 2024 at 2:32 pm

   "Punching one another in the face is an admission of failure."

   Why on earth did you say that, roblogic?

   Talk about asking for it 🙂

   [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
   
9. Robert Guyton 9

   15 April 2024 at 3:39 pm

   Or sup with.

   [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
   
10. Robert Guyton 10

    15 April 2024 at 3:44 pm

    "I think know who I sit with Joe 90. It is the side that has been called bigots, transphobes and even Nazis…"

    Go, Anker! Represent!

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
    
11. tWig 11

    15 April 2024 at 3:59 pm

    In fact weka, around the time of PP's visit I called out you and other anti-trans posters on this site for language full of vitriol and disgusting slurs against trans people, primarily trans women.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
    
    • weka 11.1

      15 April 2024 at 4:11 pm

      feel free to link to specific examples and then we can look at them in context. I’ve moved this to OM because you just made an unsubstantiated claim. The onus is on you to support what you are saying. As you well know.
      • tWig 11.1.1

        15 April 2024 at 4:29 pm

        Unless you have removed my posts from the history, weka, they are there for anyone to view. At the time you personally barred me from posting links to articles and facts which challenged transphobic material on this site.

        [I didn’t bar you from that, I stopped you from posting bullshit links that didn’t support your assertions. Moderators have access to the back end record of moderation, so this was pretty easy for me to look up. Note lprent’s moderation of you here on a different topic but for the same issue of assertions without back up.

        If you don’t want to engage in robust debate, including providing back up as per the Policy, then you are now banned from all posts I put up about the Cass review, and gender identity ideology. That includes Guest Posts and Cross Posts. If you change your mind and want to work within the kaupapa that everyone else does, just let me know – weka]
        • weka 11.1.1.1

          15 April 2024 at 4:43 pm

          mod note.
    • Molly 11.2

      15 April 2024 at 4:26 pm

      Out of interest's sake, because I have been involved in many of these discussions and am unaware of regular commenters who used "language full of vitriol and disgusting slurs against trans people, primarily trans women." – I thought I'd go and have a look to see where you have identified this.

      I am making the assumption you are tWiggle of the past, so I tracked back your comments to " around the time of PP's visit " but have failed to find the specific examples.

      I've linked to the search results page 21, to save you time. But would appreciate you finding both your calling out AND more importantly the "language full of vitriol and disgusting slurs".

      https://thestandard.org.nz/search/twiggle/page/21/?search_comments=true&search_posts=true&search_sortby=date

      ("and disgusting slurs against trans people, primarily trans women." – I suspect you may be referencing the use of 'men'. However, 'Men' is not a disgusting slur nor vitriol.)
    • Robert Guyton 11.3

      15 April 2024 at 6:01 pm

      I support your comment, tWig. I recognise the issue you describe.
      • Molly 11.3.1

        15 April 2024 at 6:09 pm

        Examples would be great, Robert.
        • Robert Guyton 11.3.1.1

          15 April 2024 at 7:59 pm

          Seems I'm in moderation, Molly!
12. Ad 12

    15 April 2024 at 4:12 pm

    Forest & Bird's legal team strike again at a major project, at the Supreme Court.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350242546/aucklands-east-west-link-ordered-back-starting-blocks
    • Drowsy M. Kram 12.1

      15 April 2024 at 4:16 pm

      Can't afford regular donations, but time for another one-off donation to Forest & Bird.

      https://www.forestandbird.org.nz/support-us/appeals/donate-forest-bird
      • Tabletennis 12.1.1

        15 April 2024 at 5:04 pm

        Drowsy M. Kram "Can't afford regular donation":
        But, I hope you'll sign Forest & Birds submission against the Fast Track Bill (see link), or you can write one yourself. Closing date 19/4/2024

        https://www.forestandbird.org.nz/petitions/fight-for-nature
        • Drowsy M. Kram 12.1.1.1

          15 April 2024 at 6:42 pm

          Thanks TT = I've given a one-off $100 donation, and signed the F&B submission.

          Proposed ministerial override powers are a bad precedent. If override powers are OK now, then current ministers will presumably be OK with Labour/Green/TPM ministers allocating and exercising their own override powers in due course.
          • Tabletennis 12.1.1.1.1

            15 April 2024 at 7:39 pm

            Thanks Drowsy M. Kram, I think Forest & Bird will need it and will use it wisely. Though with the Fast Track Bill you can't even go to court any longer to stop a project.

            
13. Joe90 13

    15 April 2024 at 4:40 pm

    tWig @10

    https://thestandard.org.nz/daily-review-20-04-2023/#comment-1946777

    https://thestandard.org.nz/daily-review-20-04-2023/#comment-1946772
    • Molly 13.1

      15 April 2024 at 5:30 pm

      Are you helping out tWig, Joe90?

      Because neither of those comments meet the description that tWig posted above:

      "In fact weka, around the time of PP's visit I called out you and other anti-trans posters on this site for language full of vitriol and disgusting slurs against trans people, primarily trans women."

      For ease of reading, I've copied the text from both your links here for comparison:

      There was a Nazi group, New Zealandia, who came to support Posie at Albert Park. And let's face it, your group here are trans exclusionary. Doesn't sound like hate speech to me, just reasonable descriptors of some attendees. Hate speech is stuff like "trans men should be sterilised" and "of course autogynephiles also exhibit other paraphilia, like pedophilia" (Posie Parker).

      I'd like it if 'men in skirts' and autogynephile were banned at The Standard too as disrespectful. The twitter feed of the man who coined that second term 40 years ago is disgustingly transphobic.

      'Autogynephile', when used outside research or therapy settings that examine sexual visualisation, is a nasty perjorative. The original researcher claimed autogynephilia, fantasising about having a woman's body for sexual gratification, was a paraphilia, an abnormal, uncontrollable fetishism, and it was the way that trans women attracted to other women developed. Those two research conclusions have since been debunked, but the term has stuck.

      Posie Parker is on video claiming autogynephiles exhibit other paraphilia, specifically pedophilia. Yuk, Posie, another lie.

      At least TERF is just an acronym for trans exclusionary radical feminists, even if said with a nasty sneer. I do have to confess, I've been using the 'men in skirts' ironically today, but I can control myself if needed.

      AFAIK, Kellie Jay Keen is not a commenter on this site.
      • weka 13.1.1

        15 April 2024 at 5:42 pm

        autogynephilia is in the DSM-5, not a word that can be banned. How it is used is a different matter.
14. Robert Guyton 14

    15 April 2024 at 7:06 pm

    "…gender affirming care that has all but been discredited by the Cass report…"

    All but?

    What snuck through?

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
    
15. Stephen D 15

    15 April 2024 at 7:51 pm

    Apropos of nothing at all.

    I love Calvin and Hobbes, and Doonesbury. But the best cartoonist at the moment is, without doubt, First Dog on the Moon.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2024/apr/15/is-everything-really-getting-worse-or-is-it-simply-old-people-imagining-it?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
    • Drowsy M. Kram 15.1

      15 April 2024 at 11:51 pm

      Love it Stephen. I'm old (not only as old as I feel), and not everything is really getting worse – just many things.

      How to prop up profits on a spaceship in overshoot – that is the question…

      The Commodification of Everything [21 Nov 2023]
      Understanding the deeper dynamics of predatory capitalism

      Still, at least we beat the Aussies in the race to end daily letter deliveries.

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