Open mike 14/04/2024

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 14th, 2024 - 90 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

90 comments on “Open mike 14/04/2024 ”

  1. KS 1

    Iran attacking Israel… start of WW3?

    • Kay 1.1

      This really is scary. WTF is wrong with people???

    • francesca 1.2

      Preceded on April the 1st, when Israel bombed the Iranian embassy in Damascus.

      • weka 1.2.1

        why did Israel bomb the Iranian embassy?

        • aj 1.2.1.1

          To provoke this response?

        • Nic the NZer 1.2.1.2

          They killed a couple of senior Iranian military personal. Its a bit unclear to me what discussions they were having in Syria however though this might have been the motivation. It may also have been a provocation due to US politics turning rhetorically on Israel at the time.

          • weka 1.2.1.2.1

            the bombing was more to kill the military personal rather than being an attack on the embassy?

            • Nic the NZer 1.2.1.2.1.1

              Don't think Israel has explained their thinking to that degree. They said it was to kill these military personal and that they were known to be in the embassy.

              • weka

                ok, that makes sense though.

                • weka

                  I mean, still stupid, but at least coherent.

                  • Subliminal

                    Stupid??! You may not realise the sanctity that embassies have always been blessed with. In international law (rather than the "rules based order") embassies are regarded as that countries territory. Historically, even during conflicts and war. Israel knows this and trashes yet another norm of international relations and we think its a bit stupid?? Straight after this, Ecuador invaded Mexico's embassy in Quito causing Mexico to break off diplomatic relations.

                    Israel is now bent on breaking every international norm with the full and absolute support of Joe Biden.

                    https://electronicintifada.net/content/israel-and-us-deliberately-gutting-international-law-gaza/45696

                    Iran has shown extreme restraint.

                    • weka

                      I didn't say 'a bit stupid'. Don't put words in my mouth.

                    • SPC

                      It is not a norm of international behaviour to

                      1.supply arms to non state groups (Hezbollah in Lebanon, Houthi in Yemen and Shia militias in Iraq) to attack another nation state of the UN

                      2.it is not normal for a nation state to form a military unit (Quds) for the specific purpose of war with another nation state and network with non state fronts armed to assist.

                    • adam

                      Have to ask SPC, were you living under a rock for the 20th Century? Both the U.S.S.R and the USA regularly suppled arms to non state groups. It came back and bit the USA on the ass that one. On, if I got the date right – Sep 11 2001.

                      Going back in time, the carving up of Africa was a great time for many western nations to play that game.

                      And lets not forget THE GREAT GAME.

                      As for states forming extra military units, and networking with other actors – I suggest reading a history of the British in India or the expansion of Russia East.

                      It's all quite normal I'm afraid.

                    • SPC

                      How many cases, pre Iran, of a nation arming "fronts" to war on another nation?

                      During the Cold War, groups within nations were armed to create favoured governments in those nations (overthrow existing governments in those nations).

                      Iran is engaged in an international crime, even the existence of a group in Iran for the purpose of ending another nation is an international crime.

                    • alwyn

                      The "sanctity" in International law you talk about applies only to how the Syrian Government treats the Iranian Embassy in Syria, not what the Israeli Government might do.

        • SPC 1.2.1.3

          Two Quds generals were in Damascus located at the consulate by the embassy.

          Quds mission is to conquer Israel, liberate Jerusalem.

    • gsays 1.3

      I forget where I heard it/who said it but something along the lines of 'The world war after the next will be fought with sticks and stones'.

      Once again I give thanks for being born in this country.

      • Nic the NZer 1.3.1

        This phrase is in reference to a global scale nuclear war of course. Unfortunately its a fact that, if the US launched a full scale nuclear attack on Russia and the Russian's didn't respond the resulting climate change (nuclear winter) would be devastating for both the US and the rest of the surviving world.

      • UncookedSelachimorpha 1.3.2

        Einstein said that.

    • Mikey 1.4

      End of the Reign of the Mullahs?

    • Phillip ure 1.5

      Guardian reporting a statement has been delivered to the u.n…

      ..stating that this is retaliation for the embassy attack by Israel ..

      And that as long as Israel doesn't escalate..that the matter is 'concluded'..

  2. francesca 2

    It'll take hours for the drones to arrive.Can't help think this is a diversionary tactic, as the damage will be pretty well zero (unless the Iron Dome is not what it's cracked up to be)

    • Nic the NZer 2.1

      Possibly its an attack structured to demonstrate to Israeli's the gravity of what their government did on 1st April, rather than to escalate. We should hope so anyway but I expect there will also be rockets fired to coincide with the drones arriving.

      Unfortunately the attack on the 1st of April showed a clear desire to escalate the conflict by the Israeli government.

    • Cricklewood 2.2

      Is it out of the realms of possibility that the IDF let a few drones through? Few civilians killled, excuse to retaliate against Iran who then fire back which pulls USA into a wider war in the middle east?

      • Mikey 2.2.1

        It is unlikely. The attack is grounds for retaliation, whether it was successful or not.

      • David 2.2.2

        Probably not, from a military perspective it’s not a good idea to “allow” your enemy to succeed in an attack. Once an attack like this starts, the military will do what it needs to do to stop the attack. I believe the US is shooting the down anyway.

        Someone would have to give an order to let the (some) drone through. In between that person and the guys who shoot the drones will be a strict chain of command, and allowing some drones through would not be a legal order.

        Iran is showing that they have teeth, but I doubt that they would want a direct confrontation with Israel, besides the US would get involved.

        I could be wrong, but hopefully this is saber rattling.

    • Sanctuary 2.3

      If the Russian tactics against Ukraine are any guide these missile attacks are designed to be a staggered launch to all arrive at once and overwhelm the defenses. Suicide drones, cruise missiles and MRBMs (Medium Range Ballistic Missiles) are will be launched sequentially. At least some of the cruise missiles and drones will contain anti-radar warheads to target active AD radar, clearing the way for subsequent waves.

      If this is indeed what iran is doing – rather than sending a wave of drones to satisfy honour or whatever and then leaving the ball in Israel's – court then I would pop down and fill up the car because the energy/price inflation spike caused by the Russian invasion of Ukraine will look like the good times in six months.

  3. Tiger Mountain 3

    There are enough psychos in the Knesset, and butchers in the IDF, to not care as long as US Imperialism has their hideous backs and keeps the guns’n’money flow happening.

    The goal for these zionists is to raze Gaza, eliminate as many Palestinians as possible and then coin it from fossil fuel reserves sitting under and offshore near Gaza.

    It is up to the rest of us to never forget this slaughter, BDS hard, and ban Israeli businesses from our lives and shut down their filthy embassy.

    • Mikey 3.1

      Odd that hammass played into their hands with their psychopathic cowardly behaviour isn't it.

      • Subliminal 3.1.1

        Hmm.. Thats an interesting take that would put you in the minority. Most people would place the perpetrators of genocide as the psychopathic cowards

        • Mikey 3.1.1.1

          Which would be hammass, whose avowed intention is to destroy Israel and kill Jews.

          [lprent: Presuming you mean hammas == Hamas. If you want to troll do it elsewhere. Adding this troll wankery variant to the blacklist.

          Furthermore, if you want to make an assertion of fact, then link to it. In this case that would require a link to their current principles as at 2017 or a speech by a current leader.

          I’d suggest you don’t do this again. ]

      • mpledger 3.1.2

        I still think Putin got Iran to instigate the Palestinian attack to divert attention from Ukraine. On the face of it, the Palestinian attack looks like idiocy until you look at it while thinking about who is allied to who.

        The problem is that Hammas doesn't give a fig about the lives of Palestinians either – Hammas are quite happy to kill off their countrymen/women/children by proxy with unreasonable demands in persuing a ceasefire.

    • Psycho Milt 3.2

      If the goal of the "Zionists" were to raze Gaza and kill as many Palestinians as possible, forcibly removing Israeli settlers, leaving it to self-rule and enduring continual rocket attacks while watching Gaza's population double was a very odd way of going about it. In fact, it's almost like an Israeli intent to raze Gaza and kill as many Palestinians as possible is just some bullshit story you're telling yourself.

      • adam 3.2.1

        The government of Israeli is full of far right fuckwits. Who have openly stated they want the Palestinians gone. Convicted terrorist Itamar Ben-Gvir and the rest of his gaggle of murders have been on record to say “time to return home to Gush Katif”. You do the drawing of conclusions on that one.

        And whilst the bombing of civilians continues in Gaza, these far right fuckwits have enabled the stripping of land, and wholesale murder on the west bank.

        So what the "plan" again, who knows. What I do know, and what is happening with the help of the west, is murder and theft on a grand scale.

        • Psycho Milt 3.2.1.1

          New Zealanders, of all people, should understand that minor parties in a coalition aren't running the government. But sure, far-right fuckwits have a minor role in the Israeli govt. Now consider that far-right fuckwits are the entirety of the Gazan govt. And if you have to redirect attention to what's happening on the West Bank, which has a completely different govt, you're admitting there's no basis for the claims about Gaza.

          • adam 3.2.1.1.1

            New Zealanders, of all people, should understand that minor parties in a coalition aren't running the government.

            What the… dude look up the make of the government – minor parties make up the bulk of the Thirty-seventh government of Israel. They are nothing like the make up of the government here and the role minor parties play. Your statement is just out right wrong.

            Go learn about the politics of Israel before you respond in future – because you're looking like an ignorant tool who just spews forth propaganda.

            On that note, the West Bank is and will always be part of the same issue. To try and separate it off as you have, is disingenuous.

            • Psycho Milt 3.2.1.1.1.1

              Perhaps, before describing me as "an ignorant tool who just spews forth propaganda," you could consider that a greater number of minor parties involved in a coalition government only further dilutes the power of those individual parties, rather than increasing it?

              As for the West Bank, it cost Hamas a lot of money, time, effort, torture and murders to establish themselves as a government of Gaza completely independent of the Palestinian Authority. At least give them some credit for it.

  4. Anne 4

    Iran has launched a wave of ballistic missiles towards Israel. A significant rise in tension for the entire Middle East?

    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-68737710?src_origin=BBCS_BBC

  5. Stephen D 5

    To take our minds of the Middle East.

    Some proof that a UBI does work.

    https://academicminute.org/2014/06/jane-costello-duke-university-sharing-the-wealth/

    The numbers carry a clear message: we can choose to pay less now or pay more later. Our tax dollars can support poor families while their children are growing and developing. Or we can pay for their lack of education, obesity, alcohol abuse, and crime down the road in our healthcare and criminal justice systems.

    The statistics speak for themselves.”

    Is the next Labour government going to be brave enough?

  6. Visubversa 6

    The British Medical Journal on the Cass Report.

    https://www.bmj.com/content/385/bmj.q837

    "At the heart of Hilary Cass’s review of gender identity services in the NHS is a concern for the welfare of “children and young people” (doi:10.1136/bmj.q820).1 Her stated ambition is to ensure that those experiencing gender dysphoria receive a high standard of care. This will be disputed, of course, by people and lobbying groups angered by her recommendations, but it is a theme running through the review. Cass, a past president of the UK’s Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health, seeks to provide better care for children and adolescents on one of the defining issues of our age. Her conclusion is alarming for anybody who genuinely cares for child welfare: gender medicine is “built on shaky foundations” (doi:10.1136/bmj.q814).2"

    • Robert Guyton 6.1

      On the brink of WWIII so, READ THE CASS REPORT!!!!!

      • Grey Area 6.1.1

        Yes this place is a little bit weird sometimes.

      • mpledger 6.1.2

        We have to do something in the mean time, may as well be well-read rather than ignorant.

      • Psycho Milt 6.1.3

        We aren't on the brink of war Robert, but our country is conducting on children the same experiments described in the Cass report, and with the same appalling lack of evidence for any benefit for the recipients. It's a lot more significant to us than whatever the latest lunacy is going on in the Middle East.

        • SPC 6.1.3.1

          The issue being puberty blockers were for temporary use to delay (birth sex growth) puberty.

          The use in partnership with later supply of hormones of the other birth sex in support of "gender difference" would have physiological consequences (Swedish study).

          The do no harm aspect of health care intervention of one school and the Big Pharma (drugs) aspect in conflict to manage peoples "minds" for their well-being.

          In the DSM world – there are fashions. Criminal psychology and gay men in prison and lesbian women in mental health care, then post this time came the DSM 1980.

          1.After the female gender is equal and we can do anything cause of feminists, came acceptance of "gender identity" different to birth sex (the two are not in fact related).

          2.In the acceptance of private homosexuality but no public consorting there came an expansion of the transvestite sex worker world (a job men identifying as women, affirmation as women from hetero sexual men, that gay men could also do) and "amateurs" – partners in dresses and the developing gay club world.

          3.A new category of mental health, affirmation – to both those who wanted aversion therapy for their homosexuality and those that wanted help accepting it. And this also applied to gender identity different to birth sex. Thus assistance to sex workers as well as the issue of younger people with body dysmorphia (body not idealised male and female form – and hormone/drug use in gyms – eating disorders etc/breast enhancements – plastic surgery) and gender dysphoria.

          4.Social media and body dysmorphia (mental health support) and access to narratives about gender dysphoria and affirmation care. And growing rates of neurodiversity (autism etc) and helicopter parenting.

          Public acceptance of identity choices, as per sexuality and gender and supportive health care treatments.

          What health care is provided – to whom and when.

          Women have problems with endometriosis (often requires surgery to discover it and manage) and post natal well-being.

    • SPC 6.2

      Puberty blockers were introduced to manage early onset of puberty, to ensure a delay so that the child could be helped via other means when they still went through it before their peers.

      Ending it in all cases, except research, ignores that.

      • weka 6.2.1

        Afaik the ban on PBs is for off label use with gender dysphoric children and won’t affect prescribing for early puberty. But agree it is worth marking that distinction clear in this debate. It raises some issues about off label prescribing and low medical literacy in the general population about puberty.

  7. Phillip ure 7

    The final paragraph has a different take/tone than what your excerpt would indicate..

    After noting the paucity of research on this

    It urges "advocates and activists' not to campaign 'using substandard evidence'..

    And calls for this report to be the stimulus for more quality research/evidence..

  8. KS 8

    Iran hit the Nevatim airbase in Israel with HYPERSONIC SONIC MISSILES (mach5-10)

    IF TRUE…. This is a big f$&&ing deal

    Unipolar world here we come

    https://x.com/realscottritter/status/1779304880139559275?s=46&t=Mb3vWtlQ9iVITzFN3xvWAQ

    • KS 8.1

      Meant to say multi-polar not unipolar

      opps

    • joe90 8.2

      If wannabe kid fucker Scotty Groomer says so….

      • KS 8.2.1

        Criticism coming from a grown up that calls himself Joe90 (A fictional nine-year-old schoolboy spy)

        Hmmmm….

        You might have issues yourself …

        Just saying

        ohh… and many decent well known political commentators still talk to Scott Ritter to this day.

        I mean he wasn’t ever set up by the CIA for speaking out against the military industrial complex was he.

        Still Joe90…. You know best

        • joe90 8.2.1.1

          Criticism coming from a grown up that calls himself Joe90 (A fictional nine-year-old schoolboy spy)

          Idiot.

          Hmmmm….

          You might have issues yourself …

          Just saying

          Nope, no projection there…

          and many decent well known political commentators still talk to Scott Ritter to this day.

          Care to name these decent well known political commentators

          I mean he wasn’t ever set up by the CIA for speaking out against the military industrial complex was he.

          Of course, Scotty Groomer was set up… twice….

          Still Joe90…. You know best

          Better I suspect, than a blow-in….

          /

          • Karl Sinclair 8.2.1.1.1

            Well Joe90, we all know 9 year olds can get hot under the collar (so to speak) and go off topic… maybe too much honey in that trap creates impulsive behaviour. Concentrate dear boy

            Back to the real issue (if true this is a big deal)

            according to some sources

            Iran officially joins hypersonic club

            The Kheibar Shekan hypersonic missile is the weapon which was used to strike Israel's premier Ramon airbase in the Negev just a few hours ago. Until now, Iranian claims of its capabilities have been impossible to verify, however we can now say the Islamic Republic has clearly joined the very small list of nations with such advanced weapons.

            Kheibar Shekan is a 3rd generation medium-range ballistic missile of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. the weapon's name means 'Fortress Breaker', 'Kheibar' being the Jewish fortress that was conquered by the Muslims in the beginning of Islam, during the battle of Khaybar.

            The Kheibar shekan is the world's longest-range solid-fuel tactical ballistic missile, able to deliver a 500kg warhead to targets 1450km away. It can operate from a variety of Iranian launch platforms, and has interchangeable warheads.

            In the terminal phase, the HGV (Hypersonic Glide Vehicle) warhead separates from the main missile body and is able to accelerate and manuever in order to bypass ABM systems. Once separated, the warhead accelerates to mach 7-10. It uses both a thrust vectoring motor as well as actuating fins to maneuver. The distinctive triconic shape of the warhead provides stability whilst maneuvering at hypersonic speeds in the lower atmosphere.

            • joe90 8.2.1.1.1.1

              according to some sources

              The interwebs are awash with mis/disinfo, outright lies, and dim-wit wishcasting but sure, according to some sources….

              /

              • joe90

                according to some sources….

                Sources, huh…

                //

                Shayan Sardarizadeh

                @Shayan86

                Iran's state TV has been continuously running this video tonight as evidence of its missiles making impact on the ground and hitting targets in Israel. But it's old footage of farm fire in Texas and completely unrelated to tonight's attack.

                Ghoncheh Habibiazad | غنچه

                @GhonchehAzad

                ·

                8h

                A video broadcast by Iran's state TV tonight claiming to show the impact of Iran's retaliatory attack on Israel “minutes ago” is old. In fact, it shows fire in Texas and was published in March.
                https://twitter.com/GhonchehAzad/status/1779307601295036862

                https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1779312359195984093

                @Shayan86

                Correction: The video is even older than that, and it's from Chile, not Texas. Accordong to @cazamosfakenews, the clip shows fire "in Achupallas (Viña del Mar) in Chile and has been circulating on social networks since February".

                @cazamosfakenews

                #Engañoso | Un vídeo difundido esta noche por la TV estatal iraní HispanTV y algunos medios de propaganda venezolanos, que asegura mostrar el impacto del ataque de represalia de Irán contra Israel "hace minutos" NO es reciente. Se corresponde con un incendio en Achupallas (Viña del Mar), en Chile y circula en redes sociales desde febrero. Nota: Corregimos desmentido anterior donde mencionábamos erróneamente que se trataba de un video grabado en Texas. Algunos verificadores internacionales están citando un video publicado en marzo y aseguran de forma errónea que fue grabado en Texas. En realidad, el video es anterior y fue grabado en Chile.

                https://twitter.com/cazamosfakenews/status/1779324180053320111

                https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1779327757714960865

    • SPC 8.3

      They fired missiles at the base.

      Not the same thing as hit, had any impact, caused any significant damage etc.

    • UncookedSelachimorpha 8.4

      1) The attack included ballistic missiles that achieve hypersonic speeds, nothing that new there. Here is some real information about it.

      2) Scott Ritter is a russian propagandist

      3) "multipolar" is code for a world ruled by fascists and/or brutal authoritarians

  9. SPC 9

    Anyone else notice the new green to go and fast load up of comments?

  10. Grey Area 10

    One example of what I see as Western hypocrisy.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/350245033/live-explosions-heard-after-iran-launches-attack-israel-drones-shot-down

    Canadian president Justin Trudeau says his country stands with Israel. " Canada unequivocally condemns Iran’s airborne attacks against Israel," Trudeau said. "We stand with Israel. After supporting Hamas’ brutal October 7 attack, the Iranian regime’s latest actions will further destabilise the region and make lasting peace more difficult.". AP

    I've done a quick check and I can't any reaction from Trudeau to Israel's attack on the Iranian embassy in Damascus.

    So he condemns Iran's response but not the fatal attack that prompted it. BAU for most Western countries regarding Israel, the only player I can see in the Middle East committed to apartheid and genocide.

    • SPC 10.1

      The dead Quds generals were part of a military unit whose mission is to conquer Israel militarily – not diplomats.

      • adam 10.1.1

        The dead Quds generals were part of a military unit whose mission is to conquer Israel militarily – not diplomats.

        MMMmmm not quite a true statement.

        Quds serve as an intelligence gathering force, and one who engages in unconventional warfare. We have in our military, units which preform these duties as well.

        Please tell me your statement is not part of the spin that has come with their name translated into English "Jerusalem Force".

        I'm of the school of thought that the Quds helped us defeat the head choppers in Syria and Iraq. Which personally was a very good thing.

        And just as a side note – if the British and the Yanks had staged a coup here in 1954, I'd be pissed about it to this day too.

    • Grey Area 10.2

      I never said they were diplomats. I'm fully aware that it was military people Israel was after. My point you're not responding to is the hypocrisy that says nothing about an Israeli attack on an Iranian embassy, regardless of who they wanted to eliminate, but condemns the response.

      • joe90 10.2.1

        Iran obliged Israel with the response they wanted – a flashy whizz-bang military action with little or no damage of consequence, Western sympathies, more promises of arms and with another war to fight, Netanyahu stays out of gaol.

        • SPC 10.2.1.1

          A classic – a nation isolated over dahiya in Gaza – gets to point out Iran is opposed to its existence, is arming Houthi to attack world shipping and is supplying weapons to Russia to attack Ukraine.

          And looking deeper, note Iran is arming Hezbollah and Shia militias in Iraq to make them more powerful than the armies of Lebanon and Iraq and thus undermine the sovereignty of the two nation states – to make them bases for Iran’s war on Israel.

          It’s aid to the secular Baath regime in Syria predicated on being allowed to organise bases for Shia militias to partner with Quds.

      • SPC 10.2.2

        At the direction of US President Donald Trump the US military killed Soleimani, head of Iran’s Quds Force, the foreign arm of the IRGC, in the early hours of Friday, January 3, 2020, in an air raid near the cargo area of Baghdad International Airport.

        Generally Quds military are regarded as fair game because they are of a unit formed for war on a member state of the UN.

        You claim Israel is the only state committed to genocide and fail to note the purpose of Quds is to end the existence of a Jewish state. One cannot conclude that a nation that agreed to the 1947 partition plan and Oslo Accords is the same – though one suspect BN (Likud and coalition partners) is opposed to that two state outcome and observe that dahiya doctrine does not work.

        The attack on the embassy compound – including consulate was condemned by the UNSG. In international law the site is regarded as part of a nations territory.

        https://www.timesofisrael.com/un-chief-criticizes-strike-on-iranian-consulate-warns-against-further-escalation/

        However this

        The "imperative for Iran" to retaliate for the attack on its embassy compound in Damascus might have been avoided had the UN Security Council condemned the strike, Tehran's mission to the United Nations has said.

        "Had the UN Security Council condemned the Zionist regime’s reprehensible act of aggression on our diplomatic premises in Damascus and subsequently brought to justice its perpetrators, the imperative for Iran to punish this rogue regime might have been obviated," the mission said on the social media platform X on Thursday.

        https://www.trtworld.com/middle-east/iran-urges-un-to-condemn-israel-to-prevent-retaliation-after-embassy-attack-17739908

        • Grey Area 10.2.2.1

          Currently only one country is committing genocide and having to answer a case brought to the International Court of Justice over its actions.

          • SPC 10.2.2.1.1

            Who concluded it is committing genocide?

            • adam 10.2.2.1.1.1

              No one did, it's at the court to answer the case of genocide.

              Because there is prima facie evidence, to proceed to trial or judgment on the case of genocide.

              Which does mean people can call it a case of genocide, at this point with at least 40 thousand dead. I say the case has a good chance to prove that the IDF, and the government of Israel have been committing genocide.

              • SPC

                The Israeli judge agreed on two points – incitement (comments by those in government) and enabling delivery of aid to civilians.

                40,000 with the missing.

                https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2023/10/9/israel-hamas-war-in-maps-and-charts-live-tracker

                Death numbers in war do not determine genocide – bombing of civilian areas has occurred in Syria and Ukraine.

                By numbers, Syria has been and Ukraine is being depopulated.

              • Mikey

                40000 dead according to hammass, who lie as soon as breathe.

                [lprent: It appears that you are simply lying with this false assertion of fact.

                I don’t know of any death estimates from ‘hammas’ nor from Hamas.

                The estimates you are probably referring to are by the Gazan Ministry of Health which at present are over 33k deaths. The methods used and the political position of the Ministry are detailed here in a easy to understand article that appears to be especially designed for stupid trolls like you.

                I believe that the other 7k deaths comes from guesstimates from US intelligence sources (not ‘hammas’) about unreported bodies in collapsed buildings. No one actually knows because the numbers are bound to be quite inaccurate under the current fog of war conditions and that the Israelis appear to be targeting medical and aid workers. However what is clear is that the MoH figures are low.

                The Israelis appear to have similar problems estimating the number of Hamas deaths despite holding the ground on which and above which most of those should have happened. Their estimates vary wildly. Similarly they haven’t ventured any estimates of the massacres that they have inflicted even in the areas where they now control and where they could dig them out from the blast effects. Also they seem to count an inordinate number of non-militant civilians as being hard-core Hamas militants based on non-military reports. It would appear in my opinion that the IDF routinely lies about the effectiveness of their intelligence and targeting. Hardly an ethical or moral position for a army to take.

                If you are too stupid a troll to understand the difference between fiction, fact, opinion, or inherent inaccuracies, then simply don’t bother commenting here. I’ll happily keep pointing out just how stupid you appear. ]

                • Mikey

                  Who runs the Gazan ministry of health?

                  • lprent

                    The Palestinian Authority (PA) pays for it and is the direct employer of all HA staff in Gaza apart from a few Hamas political appointees. This isn’t exactly hard to find out. Most of the funding for the salaries, plant and consumables comes via the PA including from donors.

                    Hamas as a local authority, militia and political party may influence some people in the Gazan branches of the PA Ministry of Health. But so do many other organisation such organisations as the World Health Organisation, the Israeli Ministry of Health (diseases being no respecter of borders), the Israeli Defence Force (IDF) who have maintained a blockade of Gaza for decades and recently a ready supply of injured Gazan children, and the aid organisations who try to maintain a level of health in the area.

                    The Israeli government has limited influence apart from its instincts to kill and maim civilians using the IDF. Most of its influence has come from its untrustworthy habits of violating agreements to pay the taxes that it collects on behalf of the PA which are used to partially for the Gazan health system.

                    As the occupying force of Gaza, the Israeli government is responsible for the well being of the population under their occupation. They are most notable for doing the opposite and using dumb bombs to level civilian buildings and the civilians within.

                    I know this from doing a minimal level of reading and research.

                    Just as I know that you are a lazy foolish troll who makes little to no effort to ever do any research. Your comments over time on this site display all of the intelligence of parrot – blindly repeating the propaganda of whoever made up the latest round of misinformation designed for dumbarse parrots.

                    If you want links to all of this, then I suggest you provide your sources of information first, so I can inspect them for veracity and answer them with more accurate ones. In other words show some minimal effort.

                    • Mikey

                      So has any head of the Gaza Health Ministry since 2007 not been a member of Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiya?

      • Anne 10.2.3

        Grey Area @10

        Have to admit that was my reaction to the latest development too. Israel attacks an Iranian embassy with missiles – or something along those lines – and then loses it when Iran responds in kind.

        Ya know, if someone came along and punched me in the eye, I would probably try to punch them back. I sure would respond. 🙄

  11. adam 11

    Bloody Hell. Mass killing in Sydney – thank goodness he did not have an automatic rifle.

  12. SPC 12

    Shocking DG wants cheaper housing, more home ownership etc.

    ML is known for two things hounding Clare Curran for wanting better funded and organised state media (boo) and standing alongside Chris Penk and Simeon Brown (to make him look more significant) in photos.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350244337/damien-grant-housing-market-so-tightly-regulated-weve-created-landed-gentry

    • roblogic 12.1

      Libertarians (DG) are wannabe feudal lords in liberal clothing – using the tools of capitalism and power to oppress workers & pillage resources, and using the language of freedom to act illegally & spread lies.

      They are the religious fanatics of capitalism

  13. Phillip ure 13

    One of the scariest things about today..is wondering what would have happened had Trump been in the white house…

  14. Eco maori 16

    It's a great day today

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