Open mike 14/05/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:30 am, May 14th, 2014 - 261 comments
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261 comments on “Open mike 14/05/2014 ”

  1. Skinny 1

    Sorry didn’t mean to be rude, just annoyed Cunliffe does the pick and chose thing. He can be incredibly sulky. If we lose the election it will be cause DC is disliked too much by too many. The penny dropped a couple of weeks ago that Robertson was actually the better option popularity wise. Anyway DC is it and I guess people change their annoying bad habits.

    • Colonial Viper 1.1

      You are so full of shit.

      The penny dropped a couple of weeks ago that Robertson was actually the better option popularity wise.

      Duh. You meant to say “better option popularity wise” amongst the broad section of the voting public known as the Parliamentary Press Gallery.

      • Tracey 1.1.1

        and caucus? So that’s maybbe 50 peoiple at most?

        • bad12

          The numbers were discussed in comments in Open Mike i think yesterday or the day befor, those numbers make your comment look as stupid as it actually is…

    • bad12 1.2

      Cunliffe is a busy man Skinny, so He cannot sit here at the Standard for hours on end answering every question us lot put to Him,

      i didn’t bother, asking such questions here isn’t going to change any of Labour’s policies,(and me not being a member why would i have such an expectation),

      As Labour become more entrenched in its work will set you free,(but for 100,000 under the current policy such freedom will not be forthcoming), i have simply moved my political allegiance further left as MMP would allow and perhaps dictate i do,

      Speculation on who would be the ‘better’ leader this close to September is a bit of a non starter as far as logical conversation goes with Cunliffe odds on to become the next Prime Minister,

      Having said that tho i was and still am a supporter of Grant Robinson but that’s a discussion to be had,(hopefully not),on another day…

      • Draco T Bastard 1.2.1

        I asked a question, more because it needed to be asked than because I expected an answer.

    • lprent 1.3

      I’m more surprised at being called a “cheerleader” than anything else. It isn’t something that most politicians on the left would say.

      Personally I think that DC is by far the best person for the job at present. None of the other potential candidates for the job have anything like the required depths of experience in both the ministerial and the political to be able to make a credible fist of the task in my unhumble opinion.

      I’d also point out that I spent several decades in volunteer work working for and with Helen Clark across 7 elections (whilst usually in disagreement with her) so I have a fairly good idea what is required for the task.

  2. Matthew Hooton 2

    Election still incredibly close even though Labour under Cunliffe doing worse than under Shearer. Labour/Green/NZ First/Mana just a few votes behind National. See

    • The Al1en 2.1


      Election looking much harder for tories to win even though they poll double English’s numbers in 2002.
      Labour/Green/NZ First/Mana just a few votes behind National, or ahead, depending on other opinion polls.

      See all around the nation.

      • Chooky 2.1.1

        +100 The Allen…Matthew Hooton is desperately spinning… especially after David Cunliffe’s highly successful recent television at-home profile by John Campbell

        • Cancerman

          You mean his wife’s highly successful television bit. David was a not entity pretty much until he went to get the fish and chips. I couldn’t believe my eyes at this appearance especially given the time Labour requested to script manage the bit.

          • Chooky

            @ cancerman …i think the women of New Zealand would have been highly impressed with that at-home ( which was not a Labour Party public policy meeting or debate)!

            …they would have been impressed with Karen Price YES!

            …but also that David Cunliffe let her take centre- stage and did not try and Lord it over her….he was shown to be a very nice warm human being and very supportive of his very smart, versatile and likeable partner

            • felix

              +1 Chooky.

              In stark contrast to the domineering egomaniac John Key, who seemed terrified that Bronagh might say the wrong thing if he wasn’t hovering over her.

          • karol

            So Key having his at home at his seldom used bach, rather than his Parnell home, was not script management?

            • felix

              Had they ever been there before? Nothing on the walls, nothing on the floor.

              Never seen a kiwi bach so empty.

              • Colonial Viper

                Like many of the wealthy, they own the damn thing just so they can say that they have one. It’s keeping up with the Joneses by checklist.

              • freedom

                Contrast is a great educator. I had waited on watching the Key interview until the Cunliffe interview had screened, so I could view them as fairly as possible.
                I particularly paid attention to Campbell’s behaviour on a separate viewing of each and found him balanced in his demeanour, his questioning and importantly, in his body language. – apart from his budding crush on Karen of course 🙂

                What struck me more than anything when viewing the Key story was what struck me the very first time I saw the planking photo which was taken inside their home.
                All you see are bare cold surfaces not encroached upon by life.

                ‘Where is the person?’ was all I could ask on both occasions.

                Contrast is a great educator, and the simple difference between the Key story and the Cunliffe story lies in the perception of the personalities as we ‘share in their private lives’. This was of course the show’s stated intention. The show’s title was At Home With The Leaders. If Key considers the bach ‘Home’ it certainly didn’t show.

                We saw the out in public, glad-handing professionals, busy at work whilst wanting to look like just normal guys doing stuff and they both did really well. However, once back at home, things changed.

                ‘This is space I exist in’ cannot be faked. Your body will betray you. There are simple things you cannot hide in that circumstance. No matter how slick you are at manipulating the message or how well you manage strangers in your kitchen. Key was very conscious of the cameras and looked as if he was only focused on the voter worm he had running in his mind. Cunliffe appeared comfortable, self-conscious enough but happy to be there and basically looked like he was having fun.
                (almost as much as Russel Norman seemed to have the other week)

                Contrast is a great educator. At the end of the day people will relate to the obviously expensive and well chosen manufactured sterility of the environments shown by Key, or to the exuberant life filled chaos that the Cunliffe family so obviously thrive on.

                I think a lot of kiwis made their minds up on Monday night, and it is going to be very difficult for National to change them back.

                • would have to mark it up as a success..

         humanised a previously pretty stiff cunnliffe..

                  .(.something i don’t give a flying fuck about..

                  ..but important at this particular moment/to many..)

                  ..and in the groundswell of social conservatism underway at the moment..

                  ..his parsonage/11 kids(was it?..whoar..!..) studying to be a minister/harvard etc..backstory/upbringing is much more interesting/potent than keys’..

                • Tracey

                  maybe the word you are looking for is calculated. its a checks and balances, spreadsheet world for mr key.

                  i will do x if the outcome will be y

                  y = achieving current key goal?

    • mickysavage 2.2

      One poll, small sample and Fairfax had the least accurate polls last election. Do you always take individual poll results as gospel Matthew?

      • phillip ure 2.2.1

        and let’s not forget we have the banks trial coming up..

        ..with dotcom claiming to have the evidence that key has lied to parliament..the nation..

        ..and we also have the snowden nz spook-dirt-drop to look forward to..

        ..and i linked to a story the other day where glenn greenwald confirmed that he is..

        ..’saving the best for last’…


        ..things to look forward to..!

        • David H

          To be honest tho’ Phil I just wish KDC would stop farting around and release it. Because you KNOW that the Nats will delay, defer, obstruct, and bullshit, to keep the trial till after the election, when it will be too late!

          • phillip ure

            @ david h..

            ..i think the courts decide the trial timetable..

            ..i think that could be a bit of an over-reach even for this hubris-drenched national govt..per se..

            ..and even if they did..

            ..dotcom could still decide to release the evidence..

      • veutoviper 2.2.2

        Expanding on that:

        1011 surveyed by telephone (landline only?) over three days, May 10 -12.

        Of the 1011, only 826 were classed as ‘decided voters’ and included in the results (81.7%)

        Undecided/not intending to vote numbers excluded from the results totalled 185 – 18.3%.

        Internet Party not included in survey (Now formally registered as of yesterday together with its purple logo)

        Putting aside the four highest polling in the preferred PM (Key, Cunliffe, Peters, Norman), the results of the lower polling people are interesting although completely academic:

        Kim Dotcom – 0.4%
        Hone H and Meteria T – 0.3%
        Tariana Turia – 0.2%
        Colin Craig – 0.1%

        • Cancerman

          May 10-12? Was that the time that National was get the tail end of a battering for “dodgy” fundraising, having just lost a minister and having another on the chopping block? So pretty good result for Labour then!

        • SHG

          1011 surveyed by telephone (landline only?)

          How can you tell what sort of device is being used to answer calls to any given number?

      • Enough is Enough 2.2.3

        Its not the poll result which is the problem Greg. Its the headlines, stories and gloating that will come from it.

        People back winners.

        We need to turn this narrative around.

      • David H 2.2.4

        Yeah he does, it’s just another version of Hooton’s Horseshit.

      • swordfish 2.2.5

        I would say that over the last 2 election cycles, roughly half the Fairfax Polls have been pretty much in tune with other polls taken around the same time, with the other half always skewed to the Right. Fairfax never has a Left-leaning outlier.

    • Saarbo 2.3

      Quick off the mark this morning Matthew Hooten…um, I’m sensing panic. Which in your case is fair enough because things have turned around now that voters have seen National for what it is, a corrupt party looking after a small number of elites. Excellent!

      • Gosman 2.3.1

        You are sensing panic over someone highlighting a poll showing a possible National victory???

        • Chooky

          “Bugger the Polls!” ….as Bolger said

          The tide has turned…TIME FOR A CHANGE!

          …anyone who thinks a Cunliffe coalition Government with the Greens, NZF, and Mana / Dot Com is not going to WIN …is in for a SHOCK on election night!

          ….the Nacts are looking tired and brittle and angry and on the ropes ( any cheer and jokes from Key are looking increasingly faux)

          • Gosman

            Wow. You really have swallowed the Kool aid haven’t you. Nice to see someone so fanatic.. I mean committed to the cause.

          • thechangeling

            Yeah given the Roy Morgan is the most accurate and stable poll over lengthy time-frames, (and was the closest poll to the last election outcome) and uses more than just landlines, I don’t trust any other poll because they all seem to have either too much volatility or are not conducted with enough other methods including using the undecided vote.
            I think National and their supporters are deluded if they think they are on an automatic path to a comfortable victory and that complacency will hurt them even more on election day. The final result will be by a whisker either way with Winston being King maker again.

      • james 2.3.2

        WOW – I do wonder about some people.

        A poll has Labour under 30% and you say that you sense panic in National and that voters see National as a corrupt party.

        There are none so blind that they do not want to see.

        Its impossible to have a reasoned conversation with someone like yourself.

        • weka

          You do know what MMP is right?

        • Colonial Viper

          A poll has Labour under 30% and you say that you sense panic in National and that voters see National as a corrupt party.

          The National Party Cabinet civil war and MP bloodletting says it quite loud enough.

        • Tracey

          but seeing a 2% drop for nats since the last poll is good news in your world?

    • anker 2.4

      @ Hooton………o.k so worst case scenario we are going to need Winnie as well to get your lot out Hooton.

      I don’t think that will be a problem. Can you really see Peters going with Key? If so what would that say about Key. Unprincipled? With do a deal with anyone?

      • phillip ure 2.4.1

        re peters going with key..

        ..watching the minor party leaders debate on the nation last wknd..wd have hardened the odds in viewers’ minds that peters is more likely to go with the progressives..

        ..than with the reactionaries..

        ..his dislike of this mob of righties (and what they have done..)..seemed/s to have tipped over into the visceral..

        ..and why wd he pick an administration down to its’ fag-end..and about to be stubbed out..

        ..and one going gangbusters in its’ final term..flogging everything off/mining/drillling everything..

        ..that all goes against pretty much all peters stands for..

        ..rather than an administration just sparking up for its’ first term….but perhaps more importantly..making noises he likes about quite a few policies he has been carrying a torch for since forever..(foreign-ownership/provincial-development being just two..)

        ..if i were a gambling man.i’d stick the dosh on peters going with the progressives..

        • Clemgeopin

          I think you would be taking a big risk with such a gamble.

          Winston is cunning and crafty. His PRIMARY aim now is to secure his 5% plus threshold. He will therefore say and things to get his support from both the left and right leaning voters.

          He will not say prior to the election which block, national led or Labour led government he will join.

          After the election he will decide which way to go based on what policy concessions and baubles are offered and only then he will decide.

          In my opinion, Key will offer him much more than Cunliffe can.

          • cardassian

            Progressives can offer him “Winston saved the power companies” and “Winston booted Key out” two pretty big offers I’d say.

    • rhinocrates 2.5

      Good to see that you’re quick off the mark Hoots. Since we had a serious discussion (PG notwithstanding) on domestic abuse, how do you feel about spinning for a wife-beater? We all know that you’re a strong advocate of feminism, but you were were oddly silent about Effluvium’s connections with Liu…

      • David H 2.5.1

        @Rhinocrates To say nothing about Colin Craig who has admitted to hitting his children, and wants to allow the hitting of Children by changing the law. I wonder how Mrs Craig feels about this? As a father of a 3 year old (Today he is 3) I do not agree with hitting children, for any reason.

    • Bearded Git 2.6

      I notice National lost nearly 2% compared with the previous poll.
      The Mana/IP link-up does not feature.
      NZF poll at 3.7% which must really be 5.7% (at least) so credibility lacking here.
      ACT are polling nearly 1% where Jamie White sounded like a blithering idiot on Morning Report this AM.

      • Lanthanide 2.6.1

        Poor poor Jamie, it was a terrible outing. He doesn’t seem to understand that it’s not his opinion that matters, is the opinions of the voters, and his job is to change their opinion, not preach at them.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 2.7

      Fairfax media gave the Oravida Party 54% in November 2011. This latest poll suggests their true level of support is closer to 40%.

      No wonder the lying Prime Minister can’t stop sharing his worthless opinion of the Labour party.

    • karol 2.8

      Some people voted for Kim Dotcom as preferred PM. Interesting. Next some’ll be voting for the Jedi.

    • Clemgeopin 2.9

      The poll surveyed 1011 people through landlines only. 826 gave their ‘decided’ party preference. So 18% are undecided.

      One can not draw clear conclusions from this poll, which seems quite far out from the other closest recent polls. I don’t believe that the NZ First support is only 3.7% That is ridiculous.

      Not sure if this Stuff/Ipsos poll has any connection with the old very inaccurate FairFax Media poll.

      The Fairfax poll taken just before the 2011 election was the worst accurate poll of all! On the 21 Nov, five days before the election, Fairfax poll indication was NATS=54%. The actual election result on 26 Nov, NATS-47%, a 7% DROP!! Labour’s was 2% higher on election night, from 26% to 28%, whereas NZ on election night was 6.6% while Fairfax poll prediction was 4%!!

      So, to me, this poll is suspect. I will wait to see a series of other polls to draw a more reasonable conclusion.

      See here:,_2011

  3. Gosman 3

    Labour hit by at least confusion if not more infighting over selection process in Tamaki Makaurua. Not a good look I would suggest.

    • Colonial Viper 3.1

      You’re right, contested selection processes can be messy. Let’s just find a 23 year old nuclear industry lobbyist and slide him into the seat.

      • Tracey 3.1.1


        or have a board of directors overriding the electorate members like in ACT. That’s real democracy baby

    • Where’s “Tamaki Makaurua”?

    • @’s a seachange how the european court has swung in behind the rights of the individual vs. the power of the internet conglomorates..

      ..’tis good news..

  4. amirite 5

    Stuff, the right-wing rag…enough said.

    • james 5.1

      Yep – they take the figures from an independent polling company and then totally make new ones up in the reporting because they are right wing.

      Yeah…. tui !

      • Colonial Viper 5.1.1

        Stuff is owned by Fairfax, and if you believe that Fairfax does not take a deliberate pro-Tory line most of the time, you haven’t been paying attention.

        • james

          I have. I also know they they do not own the polling company, nor to they change the figures that come back from that company.

          • Tracey

            can you post all the questions from the survey, thanks.

          • Colonial Viper

            I have. I also know they they do not own the polling company, nor to they change the figures that come back from that company.

            It also seems you have a very limited conception of how National Party networking operates in the business world.

        • Tracey

          my partner was called on ourlandline by a marketing company for a survey.

          she was asked if she knew who she was voting for. she said yes. the next question was, is it national. she said no. then asked were there circumstances under which she would vote national. she said no. they said ” thank you” and rang off.

          we are in the epsom electorate.

          my partner assumed they meant party vote because they werent specific.

          • Colonial Viper

            Interesting. Their polling is focussed on assessing the level of opinion against National, and how firm that opinion stands. They are not interested in determining support levels for any other party.

            • Tracey

              ahhh, of course, which suggests its a national instigated poll?

              if it had been act the questions would have been more electorate vote focused?

              • Colonial Viper

                IMO neither National nor ACT will waste money asking any questions about ACT – you know ahead of time that 99.9% of people are going to diss ACT.

                So yes, most likely it was internal polling for the National Party. A very odd lack of follow up questions though make me think it was a snap poll to get some quick and dirty numbers. Informative follow up questions to a National non-voter like yourself might have been things like – did you vote National last election? Even though you aren’t voting for National, do you approve of John Key as PM? etc.

  5. i speed-read thru the cunnliffe-thread late last nite..

    ..and two of the takeaways i got on two of my concerns..pot and poverty..

    .was a swerve/no-answer to the medical-pot question..

    ..and an arbeit-will-macht-them-frei answer to the question of the benificiary-poverty..

    ..the gringing/ongoing miseries of those at the very bottom..

    ..did i get that right..?

    ..and if i did..what is new/different..?.from what came before under clark..

    …what is to celebrate/promote..?

    • risildowgtn 6.1

      Yes I seen him swerve the answer to that. All good ,Ill take it to Facebook and twitter

      The Greens have some great policy’s on it anyway and will be votiog Mana/Greens in my electorate anyway

      • Jackal 6.1.1

        The Greens have some great policy’s on it anyway…

        Likely one of the reasons why they’re showing consistent increases in support in recent polling. Clearly shows that National’s ‘the Greens are the end of the world’ rubbish hasn’t gained any traction at all.

        • Lanthanide

          National’s Green bogey-man has a very big uptake, going by comments on Stuff about how the greens just want to destroy the economy etc.

          That’s why I firmly believe once they actually get a chance to be in government, the public at large will realise they aren’t the devil incarnate and they’ll get a lot of support in the polls.

          • Jackal

            You have a point Lanthanide. However it will be devout National and Act supporters running the governments attack lines online. I very much doubt many people would be changing their voting preferences just because John Key and his cohorts are good liars and muckrakers!

          • Draco T Bastard

            National’s Green bogey-man has a very big uptake, going by comments on Stuff about how the greens just want to destroy the economy etc.

            Who reads Stuff? To be more precise, what proportion of them are committed National supporters against those who aren’t?

    • Chooky 6.2

      @ Phillip Ure ……Luckily for you…you can vote Mana on the beneficiary poverty issue….and Greens on both issues!….and as you well know a Labour led coalition will be way better than NACT…on both issues!

      …also we have yet to see all of Labour’s policies

    • Bearded Git 6.3

      Pot simply not an election issue phillip. Get used to it.

      • phillip ure 6.3.1


        ..and you will see how much of an ‘issue’ it is when..if expected..the mana party comes out with a sensible/sane/colorado-model pot-policy.. part of their suite of doing things differently..

        ..and see how that will galvanise the young vote..especially..

        • phillip ure

          (ahem..!.freudian-slip there..i meant the internet party..

          ..i think mana has medical-pot as policy..

        • MaxFletcher

          More important things to worry about than cannabis reform there Phil.

          But keep blowing the horn

  6. big bruv 7

    So 13.4% of the population want Cunliffe as PM.

    I am really surprised it is as high as that.

    • bad12 7.1

      🙄 🙄 🙄 i would be really surprised if you had the ability to perambulate in an upright position without losing the skin off of your knuckles to the pavement…

  7. jh 8

    On Radio NZ they were talking about technology putting people out of work (the post office) while IT were crying out. The problem is that only the creme de creme can do that sort of IT work. Joyce said those that loose out move sideways (into other jobs) that is b.s they either accept lower wages or less work. All over modernised manufacturing plants require fewer people. What we need is less want; one way to achieve that is in the urban form (eg Susan Krumdieks eco village), but it isn’t the whole answer.
    National’s other b.s is globalisation all ships rise when a foreigners can feast on the cabbaged treed headland.

    The trend toward globalization (free trade, free capital mobility) is not usually associated with migration or demography. If globalization were to be accomplished by free mobility of people, then demographers would certainly be paying attention. However, since globalization is being driven primarily by “free migration” of goods and capital, with labor a distant third in terms of mobility, few have noticed that the economic consequences of this free flow of goods and capital are equivalent to those that would obtain under a free flow of labor. They are also driven by the same demographic and economic forces that would determine labor migration, if labor were free to migrate.

    The economic tendency resulting from competition is to equalize wages and social standards across countries. But instead of cheap labor moving to where the capital is, and bidding wages down, capital moves to where the cheap labor is, and bids wages up-or would do so if only there were not a nearly unlimited supply of cheap labor, a Malthusian situation that still prevails in much of the world. Yet wages in the capital-sending country are bid down as much as if the newly employed laborers in the low-wage country had actually immigrated to the high-wage country. The determinant of wages in the low-wage country is not labor “productivity,” nor anything else on the demand side of the labor market. It is entirely on the supply side-an excess and rapidly growing supply of labor at near-subsistence wages. This demographic condition-a very numerous and still rapidly growing underclass in the third world-is one for which demographers have many explanations, beginning with Malthus.

    Herman Daly ex World Bank economist.

    • Tracey 8.1

      You know I think things start more simply.

      Two discussions on this site prompted me to change two shopping behaviour.

      the use of self service at supermarkets
      shopping at 100% new zealand owned new World.

      Have now been doing 2 and not doing 1 for some months now. Interestingly, my family are now doing the same, as are some friends we’ve talked to about it.

      Do I find myself occassionally spending 5-10 more minutes checking out than i used to? yes. But I chat with people around me, the check out people, and I take the time to slow down during my day.

      Change does beginw ith each of us, even in the small ways.

      I know it’s not exactly what you were talking about, but we all have to start somewhere helping each other out.

      • phillip ure 8.1.1

        @ tracey..

        ..and like most issues..that one is also nuanced.. that the (kiwi-owned) ‘good guys’ pay their workers minimum-wage..

        ..whereas the (foreign-owned) ‘bad guys’ pay their workers a couple of bucks over minimum-wage..

        .(better to be even more screwed over by yr ‘own..?

        • Tracey

          yup, but so does the competitor I no longer shop at (pay minimum wage).

          • karol

            It is a bit a case of weighing up the pros and cons. Also, as I now try to use my car less, and often bus to the shops, it’s often a case of which supermarket is within walking distance.

        • Tracey

          well, Labour and greens are saying they will raise the minimum wage, so vote there if this is an important issue.

          The nats will give .50c a year and rely on employers to voluntarily raise the wages in the “good times”.

      • felix 8.1.2

        Know what really grates about the self-serve checkouts?

        Although they’ve sacked someone/not hired someone, the job still exists – it’s just that they’ve found a way to get us to do it for free!

        So nah, I don’t use them either.

        • karol

          I feel the same about marketing surveys that are done via calling my landline, and feedback forms sent me after I’ve been provided with some goods or services – where do I send the bill for them using my time and effort to improve their profit margins?

          • vto

            Yep. I always explain at the start that, like them, we charge for our time, and ask them for a name and address to send the invoice.

            Everyone should do it.

        • The Al1en

          The funniest thing about self serve checkouts is watching people queue up to use them.
          It’s like driving to a gym to walk on a treadmill.

          • Colonial Viper

            Reminds of documentaries I’ve watched with people quietly and orderly queuing up to board the trains taking them to concentration camps.

            • The Al1en

              Whilst not linking the two very different situations, much like the sad footage of the Korean ferry passengers waiting below decks for the ship to sink.

              • Colonial Viper

                To many of us are docile sheep conditioned to be herded by rabid neoliberal (and neocon) dogs on to the trucks.

            • phillip ure

              bit of a groin-stretcher there eh viper..?

              ..those ‘orderly’ queuing up..had guns trained on them..

              ..and would have been beaten/shot/killed had they not been ‘orderly’..

              ..yr point..?

            • Stephanie Rodgers

              Ew. That’s a gross comparison.

          • Draco T Bastard

            The funniest thing about non-self serve checkouts is watching people queue up to use them. It’s like driving to the gym to walk on a treadmill.

            Wait, no it’s not, it’s like going shopping to buy food – in both cases.

            • The Al1en

              Except, as we’ve been told by the supermarkets, the idea of self serve is customer convenience and to speed up the process, in which case, as pointless exercises go, queuing up at an unmanned till to do it yourself is right up there.

              • Draco T Bastard

                I suppose if people were queuing up when there were manned ones available then you might have a point. I usually see it the other way around.

                • The Al1en

                  I always have a point, though sometimes it’s more cosh than needle sharp.

                  What they should do, instead of a bar code, is have a wifi emitter on each product so when we walk through a scanner zone on the way out it’s all done, just electronically take it from our wallets then and there.
                  One could even have a phone app where you scan each item as you go, and when you walk through the check zone and find the supermarkets have charged you more than the shelf price you can call at customer service on the way out.

                  They would in star trek.

    • Draco T Bastard 8.2

      The problem is that only the creme de creme can do that sort of IT work.

      Nope, pretty much anybody can do IT work – just need to learn a little bit.

      Joyce said those that loose out move sideways (into other jobs) that is b.s they either accept lower wages or less work.

      The problem with what Joyce says is that he’s part of a government that’s busy cutting education so that people can’t actually move at all.

      • Colonial Viper 8.2.1

        Nope, pretty much anybody can do IT work – just need to learn a little bit.

        How many technology (IT) development projects have you been involved in Draco? Hardware, software or firmware is fine.

        • Draco T Bastard

          And that means what? Oh, that’s right – nothing.

          If you want to work in IT go sign up at your local polytech. They’ll throw an aptitude test at you if you don’t have anything in work or schooling to show you can do it. I haven’t, yet, heard of anyone not pass that test. What they’re looking for is the ability to detect patterns and logic.

          Anybody can learn anything but it does help if they have an interest in it. A strong enough interest can even overcome a lack of aptitude.

  8. “..Why Marijuana Works Better Than Opiates to Control Pain:

    It’s all in the way human brains are hardwired..”

  9. jh 10

    big bruv 6
    14 May 2014 at 7:29 am

    So 13.4% of the population want Cunliffe as PM.

    I am really surprised it is as high as that.
    Hitler was popular once as was Clark, but people are looking back and while some blame Rogernomics, we actually boomed after Rogernomics. My sense is that we saw a social welfare under belly of excess and a cognitive dissonance and confusion amongst the public.

    • Tracey 10.1

      when you say “we boomed”, who did you mean?

      the people who lost all their savings in 97 and 2000 and 20008
      the larger number of poor today than the 70’s
      the environment?

      my sense is that you got a whole lot of words from the dictionary this morning, threw them in the air and chose three to put in a sentence to make it seem like you knew stuff.

      • jh 10.1.1

        Having just read the wikipedia article on wikipedia I’ll reconsider that statement. However after struggling with a mortgage 11% to 21% it was a time I did well sort of like an arc upwards and downwards. But the 4th Labour government also brought in a lot of social legislation and pursued population increase which the Savings Working Group and a recent Treasury worling paper say has failed. The 4th Labour Government became infamous for social engineering.

        • jh

          At least (post rogernomics) you could get a job without having to know someone in the union. Rogernomics also coincided with an embrace of globalisation.

          • felix

            Nothing wrong with comparing people to Hitler.

            • felix

              Sorry, wrong place.

              Something funny going on today. Comments ending up in weird places, a whole string of comments below with the same number 20, and all Gosman’s comments are coming out backwards.

              [lprent: I can’t see anything particularly odd at the server side. I’ll schedule a reindex for this evening just in case the database indexes have a problem. ]

            • MaxFletcher

              lol, I found the incongruous nature of this comment funny though

          • Tracey


            under rogernomics you have to know a business owr… look at the friends/family getting jobs in ministrys through key, perata, collins and on and on.

            interesting you ignored my question forclarification.

          • Will@Welly

            Is Goebbels at home or what? What utter filth !! I and most I knew had no trouble getting a job in those days – you could walk in, and virtually start straight away.
            Now, it is minimum wage b.s., if you’re lucky, and if it ‘last’s’ 3 months, get out the champagne!!
            I met one man who had been “laid off”, working in a menial position, because he was over 50, no one would ‘look at him’, and he was doing double shifts, just to keep the roof over his head and try to provide for his family. Welcome to the new New Zealand, where “jobs” belong to the privileged few.

          • Colonial Viper

            At least (post rogernomics) you could get a job without having to know someone in the union. Rogernomics also coincided with an embrace of globalisation.

            Yeah, an insecure zero hour job earning fuck all, no overtime rates and treated like general disposable shit.

            It was good for the top 10% though who benefitted from NZ workers losing employment and cheap foreign labour producing cut price goods instead. The hidden cost – the hollowing out of the nation.

          • Draco T Bastard

            Um, I think you’ll find now that you actually have to know the boss to get the job. Knowing someone in the union would be much more likely. Not that what you said ever applied which makes it a lie.

        • Draco T Bastard

          However after struggling with a mortgage 11% to 21% it was a time I did well sort of like an arc upwards and downwards.

          You’re conflating correlation with causation. The interest rates would have come down no matter what.

          The 4th Labour Government became infamous for social engineering.

          I suspect the 5th National Government will be even more infamous for its social engineering. Making the country poverty stricken so as to increase the wealth going to the 1% (and often the 1% in other countries) isn’t what most people would call a great idea.

          • BLiP

            ^^^ THIS.

          • greywarbler

            we boomed after rogernomics
            I suppose you are meaning that facetiously as in boom boom from Basil Brush. Or perhaps you are serious and thinking of the noise after a disaster like Pike River.
            You don’t even have a decent pseudonym to cower under after the boom goes off.

    • Not a PS Staffer 10.2

      Godwin’s law (or Godwin’s Rule of Nazi Analogies) is an Internet adage asserting that “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1″ 

      —​ that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler or Nazism.

      • jh 10.2.1

        I wasn’t comparing anyone with Hitler, I was just saying that leaders have an up and then a legacy.

  10. Half Crown 11

    I see our unbiased media is saying, Winston Peters smoking gun fired blanks.( Prime News at 5.30pm yesterday)

    NO. The speaker Carter would not let him pull the trigger.

    • Tracey 11.1

      Prime news at 530 last night also replayed the PM’s comments about labour and the unions, or the Pm replayed the comments two days running. Soper did not challenge it.

      Their political coverage last night was certainly a good example of things looking different depending on your leanings.

      peters showed that Collins has, in the past, declared foreign govt funded travel. The pecuniary interests register shows her colleagues in cabinet have done so, and some have declared funding from Chinese government. his question is therefore legitimate. Why didn’t she so declare int he register this time around?

      BUT that would require the media to have looked through the PIR and done some fact checking.

  11. Scott1 12

    Sadly labour doesn’t need to legalize pot because the greens offer that policy – it means that labor can grab a few % of conservative voters from the center by denying the greens the policy and not really loose any liberalization votes because they were going to the greens anyway (who will be a coalition partner). That seems to covert the issue into a third rail.

    And that is despite the fact that there seems to be a clear majority in the people I talk to (national and labour voters) for decriminalization and good support for legalization – especially in the context of removing the legal highs. Maybe my impression is a bit biased by not taking into account the over 60’s.

  12. Not a PS Staffer 13

    YAWN….John Tamihere on National Radio advocating on behalf of Shane Taurima.

    John threatened “Judicial Review” YAWN

    Smart move Shane, so so so so smart. God Bless your phenominal IQ.


    • karol 13.1

      And Tamihere – continues his vendetta against Labour.

      • phillip ure 13.1.1

        what an epic judgement-fail on the part of taurima..

        ..getting tamihere to advocate for labour..?..(!)

        ..w.t.f. was he thinking..?’d be like the vegan society wheeling in the mad butcher.. a ‘surprise’ witness..

        • Bearded Git

          +1 phillip

        • Tracey

          plus 1

          labour dodged a bullet if Tamihere is in Shane’s corner…

          • Tiger Mountain

            and heh, ‘fixer’ Shane Phillips/Te Pou a Dover Samuels, John Tamihere, Shane Jones and now Shane Taurimu supporter. Whats with all these Shanes btw?

            • Not a PS Staffer

              Tamihere, Te Pou are more are in a difficult place. The poor wee diddums.

              They can’t use the threat to joining the Maori Party when looking for positions in the Labour Party. Nobody is joining the Maori Party.

              They can’t go to Mana because Mana has the measure of them and know that letting them in would wreck their Party. You are wise Hone.

              Tamihire, Te Pou and a few others with an over egged sense of entitlement have found out that Cunliffe and Coatesworth do not blink at threats. If they want to play they do so with the same rule book as the rest of the Labour Party.

              John, if you can’t discipline yourself just fuck off.

          • Anne

            The key word is ‘if’ Tracey.

            I’m a bit puzzled by the Taurima inquiry both by the head of the inquiry team who, in my view, over-egged Taurima’s misdemeanours on telly the other night. I’m also a little surprised by the Lab. Council’s swift response which may – or may not – have been essential.

            But one thing I can say from my former experience at AKTV2 (TVNZ’s forerunner) that Shane Taurima’s conduct was no different to many other staff members. Use of TV equipment – including the odd taxi chitty – for a variety of external commitments was commonplace. Nobody thought anything of it provided the staff member’s work and in-house integrity was not compromised. Some might say… well, Taurima was foolish enough to get caught, but my recollection is that a pimp (Tory pimp for sure) tipped off the management – a management, at least in the News sector, that seems intent on greasing up to the NACT govt.

            I can also say from past experience in later years as a public servant in another agency, that individuals associated with the Labour Party were victimised. In my case, promotion was denied me, and when it finally came the office manager told me “I didn’t deserve it”. My work was interfered with on numerous occasions and figures altered to make it look like I was incompetent. The individual responsible on one of those occasions was caught out because the original sent to Wellington had the correct figures in my hand-printing. They were never punished.

            I have a sneaking suspicion Shane Taurima may have been similarly treated which would be a travesty of justice because of the license to snidely discredit Labour given to Paul Henry, Mike Hoskings and various others down the years.

            • Tiger Mountain

              You may be right Anne, but these days the curtain twitching, underwear sniffing right leave little room for the level of misjudgement made by Taurima. Paul Henry and Hoskings sure get a free pass though.

              A top UNITE union official and the EPMU were involved at TVNZ as management tried to root out Shane Taurima’s “fellow travellers”. No one else has been publicly sacked but certain contracts were vindictively not renewed and a climate of fear and loathing further instilled.

              • Anne

                Yep Tiger Mountain, Taurima should have known better. I put it down to naivety and – as karol has pointed out below – a sense of entitlement. But I could understand him feeling victimised over this because he will know there are others who have committed even worse offences, and who have been let off the hook altogether.

            • karol

              Anne, I can see why you think the main focus should be on the unfair treatment of Taurima and apparent victimisation.

              However, what you point to in your explanation of everyone else at TVNZ does it, is a culture of entitlement at TVNZ.

              In my work places, I would never have considered doing political activities using work resources, email etc. I always assume that the top managers have access to my email records and online activities. I am aware that even my kind of political activities, while not being tied to any political party, could be used against me in the future. We live in scary, surveillance state times.

              If Taurima was not aware of that, he then is, in my view, out of touch with some very glaring political realities.

              I am also not keen on the strong interweaving of politics and the media – it’s own little bubble. Too many MPs and candidates come from a media and/or PR background. I would like to see more candidates coming from grass roots, community experience.

              • cricklewood

                I second those sentiments Karol. The average person in the street will find themselves without a job if they carry out personal tasks with work resources be it paid time or equipment. Generally it is regarded as theft.

                ‘Sense of entitlement’ I guess is a nice word for it but it is not acceptable for someone wanting to represent the Labour party

                I also bemoan the lack of ‘grass roots’ type candidates who have worked and perhaps owned small business’ with real world experience. Far to many candidates have come through pol sci grads or media personalities who have spent to much time in an insular world never really understanding or knowing what its like to just get by or get a small business off the ground that maybe only pays wages for yourself.

  13. Philj 14

    Just when did RNZ turn to the right? It appears to be an worrying trend. Suzie, Guyon…. have you cancelled your party membership?

    • Gosman 14.1

      Terrible when a state broadcaster doesn’t support your political views. Perhaps it should be ditched. Some left wing people could then get together and create a new left wing broadcaster that they could support with their own money.

      • Colonial Viper 14.1.1

        Terrible when a state broadcaster is controlled by Tories and ex-National Party officers from the Board level down.

        • Gosman

          Yes it is terrible. To remove the temptation of stacking the broadcaster with political appointees the organisation should be disbanded immediately. Unless you think the solution is to stack the organisation with left wing appointees.

          • Colonial Viper

            Abandoning public broadcasting and turning the airwaves exclusively to big money corporate players?

            Who could’ve imagined that a fervent right winger like yourself would back such an idea?

            • Gosman

              I’m merely offering a solution to your little dilemma about government interference in State boradcasting. I suspect you don’t really mind government interference though. You just don’t like right wing government interference.

              • Colonial Viper

                So your solution to right wing influence is more right wing influence. Let me take your recommendations under advisement.

                PS I want to see a gradual decentralisation and democratisation of economic and political power in this country with firm controls put over corporate and banking behaviour. I have no interest in entrenching further central Government powers over ordinary people.

                • Gosman

                  Not really offering any solution to the problem of political appointees to the board of RNZ though.

              • felix

                I don’t want any govt interference in public broadcasting, thanks.

                That includes your corporate government too btw Gos.

                • Gosman

                  I want to own a super yacht however it is unlikely to happen anytime soon. What you want is irrelevant. What is practical and possible is what we have to work with.

                  • felix

                    Actually Gos in a democracy what we want our govt to do/not do is entirely relevant.

                    Horrible, eh?

                    • Gosman

                      Not really. What the voters want has to be weighed against what is practical or achievable. Many problems are caused when what the voters want clashes with reality. Witness the mess that Greece became.

                    • felix

                      You said “irrelevant”.

                      Put the goalposts back where you found them, there’s a good lad.

                    • Gosman

                      If you want to be a pedant that is your choice.

                    • felix

                      Yeah, it’s pedantic to think that when you said something was irrelevant you meant it wasn’t relevant.

                      Silly me.


                    • Colonial Viper

                      Many problems are caused when what the voters want clashes with reality. Witness the mess that Greece became.

                      Don’t be a dick. The IMF, ECB and Deutschebank rule Greece; the Greek voters are treated by them as a formality and as a joke.

                    • Tracey

                      greeces problems started not long ago, when the masses got mortgages and credit cards, both a relatively new phenomenon for a western country.

                      and as for the oft talked about retirement age of 55, it was only ever for tnose in the public service.

                      do you believe that if i cant prove god doesnt exist that is proof he exists?

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Greece’s real problems started when their power elite, in agreement with the global power elite, gave up currency sovereignty and adopted the Euro. That effectively made the Greek nation a province of Europe (similar to Otago or Canterbury as a province of NZ) unable to control it’s own monetary and financial destiny.

                    • Gosman

                      Interesting that Tracy thinks it is fine for public servants to retire at 55 but not those in the private sector. Why is that?

                      Greece’s problems were caused by a combination of typically left wing statist solutions to economic development leading to a large government sector including many loss making parastatals coupled with a lack of desire by the Greeks to pay for such state largesse through taxation.

                      This was a structural problem,. All joining the Euro did was stop Greece from continuing to mask the underlying problem via continual devaluation.

                    • Tracey

                      interesting that gosman cant read. interesting, not surprising.

                    • vto

                      gosman that is a highly selective selection of factors around the issue and as such is of little use.

                    • Tracey

                      gosman, most greeks did not have a credit card until 2002 when they entered the eurozone. thats not driven by socialism but by bankism.

                      most greeks didnt have mortgages because most property was fully owned and handed down from generation to generation.

                      it doesnt surprise me that your analysis is shallow and based on sound bite media reporting. afterall you have no problem with the pm and his ministers lie and mislead, and that we now have 60 billion govt debt.

                    • Gosman

                      The Greek crisis was one caused by Sovereign debt not private debt so I am not sure why you bring up the supposed fact that Greeks did not have credit cards or mortgages before 2002.

                  • JAK

                    Forget the super yacht Gos ! Little yachts are more versatile and heaps cheaper to run.

      • Tracey 14.1.2

        Given John Key’s views on linda clark and Shane taurima, do you find it odd he has never commented on former National party candidate, paul Henry’, role in interviewing and analysising politicians and politics on national tv?

      • framu 14.1.3

        “Some left wing people could then get together and create a new left wing broadcaster”

        FFS get some new lines – that one is old

    • Tiger Mountain 14.2

      It is highly likely they will not be financial members like many public torys. But they are members of the the right wing regardless going on their performances. The world of air conditioned spaces, lobbys, free taxis and a shared world view with their masters.

      Nats have done this for years, nudge wink virtual memberships and networks such as business associations, lodges, Fed Farmers, rural sports clubs, etc. ‘Shits and Rats’ associations, or the modern equivalent have stood dirty filthy torys in council elections for years, but really spit if Labour gets a ticket together and introduces ‘politics’!

      RNZ has been funding starved since ’08, but refuses to die just yet because of huge genuine public support that would put most of the talkback boofheads to shame despite the weasels presenting from 6–9am.

      • Tracey 14.2.1

        dont forget paul henry. The Nat leader and the media seem to have forgotten him during the last few days… might not be a paid up member but stood for themin an election.

    • Once was Tim 14.3

      “Just when did RNZ turn to the right?”
      It started in 2008, and incrementally shifting ever since. There’ll soon be a time when weeknights and weekends only are worth a listen

      • Ron 14.3.1

        Already is. I hate Morning Report now it is so gone down hill with the new staff. It’s starting to sound like Radio live

  14. bad12 15

    Applause to Christchurch City Council for the 9 to 5 vote in favor of retaining and expanding its role in ”social housing”,

    Christchurch City Council the countries second biggest landlord after the Government owned HousingNZ have outlined plans to establish a ‘holding company’ for its housing assets which meets the criteria for the payment of the full Government housing subsidy on all its rental properties thus standardizing the rents for low income tenants at 25% of income, planning also to increase their housing stock numbers by 1000 homes,(another round of applause),

    Can someone please nudge the Wellington City Council Mayor into wide awake mode to have Her look at the Christchurch model with a view to emulating that Cities housing strategy including the provision of more homes for those with low incomes,

    Another interesting poll on asks respondents to vote on Nick Smith’s plan to sell off 500 State Houses in the Canterbury region, of the 500 odd respondents so far two thirds of them give Smith an emphatic NO,


    • karol 15.1


    • millsy 15.2

      Oh that’s promising. Though the rest of CCC’s infrastructural assets are not safe, with the vultures circling and news of the dire financial straights that the Garden City is in..

      Of course the most commonsense thing would be to not worry about a stadium and convention centre….

      • bad12 15.2.1

        From my reading of the story on the 5 on the losing side of the debate wanted the 2-300 million dollars of housing stock sold off,

        Makes me wonder when and IF it will ever stop, this ”in trouble with the financials, why not get the poorest members of society to pay for it then we wont have to forgo next months shopping trip to Sydney” attitude,

        In answer to my own query i am tempted to mention cities in the same sentence as beehive matches and other combustibles but will refrain in a family friendly show like we have here…

  15. what is the tipping-point for tvnz breakfast..?

    ..what goes on top of the bloated-irrelevancies that show is..

    ..on top of so-so-much ‘weather’..

    ..on top of the fatuous/dumb-arsed/facr-palming commentaries/concerns from/of the comperes..?

    ..on top of the really really bad news-writing..(for three days now..despite the police discounting the relevance/possibility/challenging the evidence of a witness who claims he smoked pot just before the flight..despite all this..

    ..the ‘cannabis’ is the only thing they write/talk about.. is news-presentation/writing that is its’ inaccurancies/false presentation of the actual evidence..

    ..which brings us to the actual tipping-point.. comes with the news-reader..that part-time elder/sage peter williams..

    ..and the absolute shite/drivel he spouts in his opinions..

    ..his obvious idiocy this morn was sneering at a killer rigby ad playing in america..’cos irt portrays the all blacks as ‘warriors’..

    ..and ‘they are a rugby league team’..sniffed pete..

    ..and could he be more lip-smacking when he says ‘cann-a-bis!’..?

    .he is the tipping-point..

  16. karol 17

    The income inequality gap has gone up in Auckland since 2006, while median has also gone up.

    It’s not just about more people in employment, (or not) John, it’s about underemployment, people being underpaid, and poor working conditions for too many people.


    In 2006, the median income for someone in the Orakei area, including Mission Bay and St Heliers, was $36,600.

    Data from last year’s census, which has just been released, shows that figure has grown to $42,700.

    But incomes for those in the poorest suburb of Mangere-Otahuhu actually fell, dropping $200 to $19,700 last year.

    The figures for Auckland as a whole show the median income last year was $29,600, an increase of nearly $3000 from 2006.

    • Tracey 17.1

      which is why Bill English always uses averages when answering questions, as does Joyce

    • bad12 17.2

      The problem with publishing ”medium incomes” or ”average incomes” is that they hide the real picture of income across all the demographics,(with intent i would suggest),

      Publishing the income figures in bands of five thousand dollars and the numbers in particular areas who sit within the particular income bands would give us a much clearer picture,(which is why they don’t do this), the medium or the average is in my opinion deliberately used as the tool here so as to allay any concerns of those higher up the food chain about the disparity of income,

      In the vein of ”they cannot be that badly off with an income of 20 grand a year in their State Houses” this works spectacularly well as a tool to hide the true picture of poverty,

      As Campbell Roberts from the Sallies points out, there is a large and growing cohort from among the demographic in South Auckland who have NO income whatsoever having been given the kick from WINZ,

      To survive, by definition, this cohort within the demographic MUST be supported by others within the community thus lowering further their actual use of their already meager income in the vein of bettering their life outcomes,

      OR, this growing cohort must simply TAKE what they see as their needs from someone else that has had to work and pay for such goods, a small but growing Robin Hood economy and not being able to promote criminal behavior here i wont,

      ”Why not phone up Robin Hood and ask Him for some redistribution”– The Clash, the odds of success there i would rudely suggest at the moment are odds on better than waiting for Labour to propose doing the same…

  17. Philj 18

    And John T gets airtime on ‘National’ Radio! ‘National’ by name, National by nature.

  18. karol 19

    Laugh?!! I almost cried….. NZ Herald editorial on journalistic bias, or lack of:

    It is not hard to put personal views aside in the interests of objective journalism even when a subject is political.
    None of this is to suggest that journalists should be devoid of political views and judgment. They would be less than citizens without them. Their views and judgment will be apparent to the audience and acceptable so long as there can be confidence they come from an interested, well-informed, even concerned person who has no conflict of interest.

    The Herald does not allow its editorial staff to participate in community or political activities that could compromise their work. This means not only membership of political parties but taking part in public campaigns that they could have to cover. Preserving this distance from politics is not an onerous restriction for those whose credibility is paramount. They have the privilege of observing, reporting and commenting on public affairs. Once they cross the line to partisan participation, there is no coming back.

    • Tiger Mountain 19.1

      “Once they cross the line to partisan participation, there is no coming back.”

      At least there is one accurate sentence in the editors bilge on Herald political writers. Their persistent ‘tory love’ is obviously a job requirement.

    • Tracey 19.2

      That’s great. Did they also outline HOW they ensure that? Do they get the journalist to sign a form saying I declare i don’t xyz? The only problem with that is that Banks signs things without reading to avoid the consequence of what he signed…

  19. Colonial Viper 20

    Stunning piece by Harold Pinter – 2005 Nobel lecture for Literature

    It never happened. Nothing ever happened. Even while it was happening it wasn’t happening. It didn’t matter. It was of no interest. The crimes of the United States have been systematic, constant, vicious, remorseless, but very few people have actually talked about them. You have to hand it to America. It has exercised a quite clinical manipulation of power worldwide while masquerading as a force for universal good. It’s a brilliant, even witty, highly successful act of hypnosis.

    I put to you that the United States is without doubt the greatest show on the road. Brutal, indifferent, scornful and ruthless it may be but it is also very clever. As a salesman it is out on its own and its most saleable commodity is self love. It’s a winner. Listen to all American presidents on television say the words, ‘the American people’, as in the sentence, ‘I say to the American people it is time to pray and to defend the rights of the American people and I ask the American people to trust their president in the action he is about to take on behalf of the American people.’

    It’s a scintillating stratagem. Language is actually employed to keep thought at bay. The words ‘the American people’ provide a truly voluptuous cushion of reassurance. You don’t need to think. Just lie back on the cushion.

    • jh 20.1

      It is a great example of literary skill and rhetoric.

    • blue leopard 20.2

      Thanks CV, I agree, it is a stunning piece, a stunningly accurate reflection of what continues to go on here and elsewhere.

      This is a very sad state of affairs and good to see someone calling it for what it is.

    • Disraeli Gladstone 20.3

      Harold Pinter was a stunning writer. I cannot recommend enough just sitting down and reading some of his plays.

  20. Gosman 21


  21. Mr Fog 22

    Using the Orwellian lens of language how would you interpret various ministers’ actions and Winston Peters Supposed smoking gun?

    Definition of conflict of interest from State Services Commission:

    A conflict of interest is defined in the New Zealand Public Service Code of Conduct as “any financial or other interest or undertaking that could directly or indirectly compromise the performance of a public servant’s duties, or the standing of their department in its relationships with the public, clients or Ministers. This would include any situation where the actions taken in an official capacity could be seen to influence or be influenced by an individual’s private interests (e.g. company directorships, shareholdings, offers of employment)”.

    Serious Fraud Office and it position on Bribery and Corruption:

    There is no legally binding definition of corruption in New Zealand. However, the definition used by the Asia Development Bank (ADB) and relied on by the Serious Fraud Office (SFO), defines corruption as:

    “Behaviour on the part of officials in the public or private sector in which they improperly and unlawfully enrich themselves or those close to them, or induce others to do so, by misusing the position in which they are placed”.

    An important component of this definition is that it encompasses the private sector, challenging traditional conceptions of corruption which usually limits potential offending to the public sector.

    The SFO does not distinguish between public and private sector corruption, and treats potential offending in either context as being sensitive matters of high priority.

    Examples of potential corruption
    • Payment, receipt or solicitation of bribes by a New Zealander or secret commissions (kickbacks)
    • Manipulation of tendering or procurement processes
    • Undisclosed conflicts of interest
    • Willful blindness in respect of the activities of agents overseas (this is particularly relevant to businesses with a presence in the UK and USA)
    • Failure to put in place adequate systems and controls to mitigate the risk of bribery (again particularly relevant to businesses with a presence in the UK and USA)
    • Extravagant corporate hospitality or gifts
    • Undisclosed giving or receiving of gift End quote

    The dark arts are alive and well, particularly when you can sanitize the terms away on national radio, replacing them with the words ‘it’s just cultural’ or smoking gun? or saying its open to interpretation?


    • Tracey 22.1

      its a great piece and worth people having a read of the whole thing.key and others seem to be saying that because collins didnt personally benefit from her trip to china, funded in whole or part, by the chinese govt, there is nothing wrong.

      however her cabinet colleagues have disclosed chinese govt contributiins to travel on their official visits, so it appears to be cabinet practice to do so.

      excuse number two is it was probably an administrative error. so, her colleagues didnt make that error, and she was able to complete other parts of tge register.

      this leaving aside the benefits to her husbands company,oravida.

      can someone ask the pm

      do you advise parents in nz to teach their children that as long as they dont break a law they shoukd do whatever they please?
      is the expected standard of your cabinet members ” if its not illegal its ok by me”

      given the higher influence, responsibility and pay, why does he hold backbench mps, eg gilmore, to a higher standard than ms collins

  22. veutoviper 23

    A case of displacement activity to avoid doing the things that need to be done.

    I decided to do a bit of (irrelevant) ‘fact checking’ this morning, as I could not understand why PG was spending so much time here wasting other people’s time and energy when he had an important job as Politicheck Editor.

    According to the Politicheck website, appointments including PG’s were announced on 10 March.

    The first ‘factcheck’ posts commenced on 9 April with about 7 that day, and then daily ones of one or two per day through to 13 April; two on 16 April, one on 19 April – and the latest one on 29 April. A total of about 17 – and nothing for over two and a half weeks.

    Similarly, the latest tweet on their Twitter account was 28 April.

    So, it appears that what was a good idea, but badly executed IMO, has died, or is dying a slow death.

    Time to do the things that need doing! But thought I would share this ‘fact checking’.

    • Tracey 24.1

      you know how a wolf howls at the moon? i read that as fran howling in the night for a return to rogernomics.

    • Draco T Bastard 24.2

      Perhaps she should apply that ‘age of entitlement’ to people who have incomes over $100k. Bring that to an end and affording National Super would be child’s play.

    • ianmac 25.1

      You can’t prove that freedom!
      In the interest of a fair and open debate do not let facts get in the way. Ha!

    • Tracey 25.2

      its the cartoon version of robertson and key over the collins dinner.

      • freedom 25.2.1

        it does have a first panel that can be easily customized Tracey

        -just place a clear note “altered from original” by the author’s signature to cover yourself from [TPP] litigation 😉

  23. Jimmie 26

    The thing I don’t get is this:

    National Poll at 47% and around 48% want Key as PM

    Labour poll at 29% but only 13% want Cunliffe as PM??

    Who would the other 16% of Labour supporters rather have as Labour leader?

    Two options I guess:

    1 Labour supporters don’t care who the leader is – just vote for the party and ignore the prefered PM option
    2 Cunliffe is not well liked by Labour voters who would prefer to see an alternative leader – not sure who

    • Enough is Enough 26.1

      I am getting the feeling it is number 2.

      They may grow to like him but at the moment that support is not quite there.

      The campaign should sort that.

      • Colonial Viper 26.1.1

        I am getting the feeling it is number 2.

        They may grow to like him but at the moment that support is not quite there.

        Labour Party members overwhelmingly voted for Cunliffe. It’s no surprise that John Key, who has been PM for 6 years, has higher name recognition amongst the general electorate.

    • bad12 26.2

      Helen Clark was polling 6% in such polls befor She became Prime Minister, worth remembering and worth noting that given the above Fact such polling is meaningless drivel probably printed with the intent of trying to turn off potential left leaning voters…

  24. i found this on boing boing..

    ..did we already know all of this..?

    “…New Zealand requires network operators to register with cops – give spies oversight of their network ops..”

    When the rest of the world decides to scrutinise and dial down mass surveillance of Internet users –

    New Zealand does the opposite.

    From now on network operators will have to register with the cops –

    have staff with security clearance –
    and ask the GCSB spy agency for permission to change their networks and buy gear.

    This is to make it easier for the government to intercept communications – and to keep network secure.

    The new law applies to everyone – from small ISPs to Facebook – Google – Microsoft – and telcos.

    Failure to comply could cost as much as NZ$500,000 in fines per day..”


  25. Ennui 28

    Some insight from under Moneybag Logic

    A Princeton University study by Gilens and Page performed a regression analysis on over a thousand public policy decisions, and determined that the effect of public opinion on public policy is nil. That’s right, nil. It doesn’t matter how you vote, it doesn’t affect the outcome in any measurable way. By extension, that also goes for protesting, organizing, dousing yourself with gasoline and setting yourself on fire on the steps of the US Senate, or whatever else you may get up to. It won’t influence those in power worth a damn.

    I suspect the same runs true for here.

    • Draco T Bastard 28.1

      Yep. That’s what makes our so called democracy an elected dictatorship. The people that our MPs do listen to happen to be the rich which makes us a plutocracy.

      • Colonial Viper 28.1.1

        And if the directions of the rich to our political leaders entail stealing from the nation to make themselves even wealthier, that then can be considered a kleptocracy.

      • Tracey 28.1.2

        you can buy a game of golf… a cabinet club membership, or collect signatures…

  26. captain hook 30

    the question every new zealander must ask is would you buy a used car from John Keys?

  27. captain hook 31

    the question every new Zelander must ask themselves is; Would you buy a used car from john keys?

  28. felix 32

    Just watched the “At home the bach we own but never visit with John and Bronagh Key” thing.

    She’s lovely. What is she doing with that horrible man?

    • Aux 32.1

      Maybe times haven’t changed. Back in Baudelaire’s day he said that “modern” women married as a financial decision – the alternative at the time often being prostitution – and were objects used to personify society’s frivolous tendencies and bourgeois fashions. Clothes horses for the morals of the time and princesses of a divine nature. They were a mirror of everything the husband is not allowed to experience or express as a male of the culture. He wasn’t very enlightened, for a poet, but in presenting certain attitudes he at least sounds historically accurate.

      In my experience, wives and husbands have much in common in attitude and style, in a complimentary round-about way, rather than in direct similarity. It’d be a mistake to think of one as “lovely” and the other as “horrible”. They are one and the same beast, of a kind because of the other. Which is not to say there are not other possible roles within marriage.

      A man as powerful as a PM, once he’s done beneficiary/race/poor/whatever-bashing, still has his personal crap to dump somewhere. The wife colludes and absorbs some of it, then the kids. It’s all unavoidable to a certain extent and should be the best argument for both birth control at the personal end of the scale, and twentieth-century style communism at the public end, but people, you know how confused, sentimental and argumentative they get. Pesky individualism has set the social machine to self destruct.

      If Beauty and the Beast is true, then your Beauty still clearly has her work cut out. Take heart that at one point he might have been worse.

    • Mary 32.2

      Did you notice how he abusively waved the barbeque utensil right in front of her face? Wanker.

  29. anker 33

    I support DC because I want someone who is capable and know the financial systems extremely well, so as to change it. According to C Trotter he was the only one in the Labour Caucus who fully understood the GFC. At the Wellington leaders meeting he said he wanted to be known for reversing Rogernomics. That as a long time labour supporter was huge for me. (He will loose my support quickly if that doesn’t happen I might add).

    I am also impressed cause he speaks Te Reo. Not many if any Pakeha politicians can likely claim this, although I stand to be corrected. I think this more than anything shows me he’s genuine.

    I think GR is very capable and a great politician no doubt. But DC has been a minister and been extremely competent (not perfect) at it.

    He is an honest man up “mans up” admit mistakes and then corrects them. That’s rare in politics and not commented on often.

    I believe we will do enough to get Nats out. It isn’t easy because as often noted on this site we are up against the incredible bias of MSM, who on-going love affair with Key is astounding.

    • Mary 33.1

      Do you think it’s possible to reverse rogernomics while at the same time leaving a user-pays education system and punitive welfare system intact?

  30. vto 34

    Jamie Whyte was again a larf on te nat radio this morning. He must have taken quite a dose of Crazy Act Party Pills to suggest that the current distribution system we have for the nations resources is some sort of natural order.

    Does he not realise that the amount of money that ends up in people’s hands at the end of each week is the result of myriad laws, norms, regulations, taxes, lack of taxes, subsidies, infrastructures, medicals, educations, roads, lack of roads, minimum wage settings, lack of maximum wage settings (how incongruous), inheritances, privacy of the commonses, the rule of law, on it goes, on it goes…

    Whyte genuinely has a screw loose in my opinion. He should go back to studying loose screws.

    • srylands 34.1

      He seems entirely sensible on most things.

    • srylands 34.2

      Having now listened to his interview, I simply reiterate how sensible the guy is. Thinking of switching my vote to ACT. If you vto have the concern for people on low incomes that I think you do, you should also consider voting for ACT.

      • TheContrarian 34.2.1

        You and the 5 other people who vote for him will have quite the election night party.

      • felix 34.2.2

        I don’t think ACT have any candidates running in the Australian election.

      • Mary 34.2.3

        Maybe ACT could do a little door knocking in South Auckland, Naenae, Cannons Creek, Maraenui. Sounds like a shoo-in.

  31. greywarbler 35

    greywarbler 33
    14 May 2014 at 12:35 pm
    Infratil is an example of business with aspirations mixing up our economy. So many businesses eager to siphon off money from NZs to their company pockets mean we can expect rising prices to assist greater returns to investors.
    However, operating profit fell 5.3 percent, largely due to reduced contributions from its 50.4 percent-owned power company, Trustpower, and the Infratil Energy Australia Group.

    They become ambitious and want to expand and invest in Australia and other countries and so may build infrastructure there and attempt entry into their market using money raised in NZ from investors and profits from customers.
    This is partly due to the weaker Australian dollar. Trustpower has a large wind energy programme in Australia.
    As well, Infratil operates the large energy business across the Tasman, Lumo Energy. Lumo is an energy retailer and generator, while Direct Connect is a utility connections provider for the real estate industry.

    When their ownership of business here is related to providing basic needs it is not reassuring to a citizen looking for a country with modern advanced facilities at prices affordable to lower paid NZ people.

    Looking at Infratril’s moves in this business item, I think of how they have been attempting big rises in airport charges to air transport companies,and making life difficult for the little people providing taxi services up against airports’ monopoly dealings and flagfall limits and appearance controls.

    As firms here get bigger they seem more likely to behave like overseas investors and the profit made from their local activities to drain out of the country. That would be different from an overseas investor only in its accounting in our financial stats.
    [Click to Edit | Delete] (3 minutes and 20 seconds)

    • greywarbler 35.1

      I found it surprising that I didn’t get my comment on Infratil at the end of Open Mike.
      I am 34 and under me there are other 34’s with the first being skinny from 6.32 a.m. He has been pushed down the thread followed by Colonial viper and bad12, both also 34’s and others with no number. I tried twice to get my comment at the end and landed up in the same position. So don’t know… what’s the story?

      • Draco T Bastard 35.1.1

        That’s because someone deleted a comment that someone had already replied to. This breaks the numbering.

  32. karol 36

    Census stats show income inequality growing. Asked in Qu 1 in question time, Key denies it’s happening, and crows on about the Nats god economic record, and Labour’s poor record.

    Again he talks about jobs and employment increases – ignores low paid jobs, underemployment, etc.

  33. greywarbler 37

    I’ll just drop an interesting quote into the mix. like a fly into jam.
    Apparently Ghandi when asked what he thought about Western civilisation said that he thought it would be a good idea.


  34. karol 38

    new AUT website – Briefing papers. Looks likely to be way better than any low level fact checking site:

    This website will host a series of Briefing Papers from early in 2014. The papers will focus on assessing the state of the country as the basis for public discussion and debate. A group of writers have been assembled to write short briefing papers based on extensive research programmes and presented in a form that can be easily understood by the public at large.

    The briefing papers will provide the public with an overview of critical issues facing New Zealand society. The goal is to promote informed discussion and debate, so crucial to economic and social development, with the central question being:

    how is the public
    interest being served?

    The public interest is central to policy debates, politics, democracy and the nature of government. It is a key factor in assessing jobs and the cost of living, educational opportunities, housing options and the way in which the policy makers of today are protecting the interests of future generations.

    In order to address these questions, the Briefing Papers will examine the underlying assumptions on which policy options are based and what interests, public or private, are being served. As Herbert Gans once suggested, this means both understanding and assessing, who benefits?

  35. Jim 39

    I note that Stuff is running an article with Key talking about tax cuts for middle income earners, or at least saying that he will not rule it out. It appears that he is floating the idea, and it also appears that English new nothing about it when questioned.
    This smacks of desperation, and could well be the last election bribe card in the pack. Well done the left for forcing Key to indicate this card the day before the budget when its not even in the budget.

  36. Jenny 40

    “Study shows how US could democratize systems, create jobs, and radically reduce emissions by 2050”

    Strange that democracy job creation and saving the planet all go together. This probably goes a long way in explaining why it is not being done.

    One of the side effects of launching the war to save the planet is a diminution of the power of the elites. Or as Bathurst Resources put it when moaning about all the protests and appeals delaying their plans to level the Denniston Plateau for the coal it contains, (our investors) “can’t wait forever to get the cream.”

    Surely this could be the creed of greedy fat cats everywhere

  37. J Mex 41

    Your guess would be wrong. I would venture that I know as many “Environmental lawyers” as you. And what they care deeply about, is getting the account. They care as much, and as little, (in general) about the environment as your average New Zealander (which is a fair amount). But they aren’t in it to save the planet. They are in it for the fee (there is very little pro-bono evironmental law taking place).

    And let’s be clear about this. You view my post as being so incorrect that you had to comment on it, while allowing people to claim that Karen Price has the credentials to be a Green Candidate, or is an environmentalist? I note no black ink at the bottom of these posts.

    I would suggest that most of your commenters would hold the view that off shore drilling and sea floor mining by corporations is unwanted and goes against the aims of the environmental movement.
    A person who chose to help those corporations get consents to do that mining wouldn’t be/shouldn’t be/couldn’t be held up as someone fighting on behalf of the environmental movement.

    I’ve got nothing at all against Ms Price. She seems like a lovely woman. But holding her out as an environmentalist, or a good fit for the green party, seems absurd, and I called those commenters out on it, yet you choose to attack me as not being able to understand basic concepts and having limited intellect.

    Wow. Nice aim you have there.

    • greywarbler 41.1

      J Mex
      What number in the thread are you referring to? You have written quite a big comment. Where does it fit in the jigsaw

      [lprent: It was moved from the Cunliffe post. ]

      • J Mex 41.1.1

        Yeah. It’s been moved from “The Cunliffe’s at home” post (where is was relevant and contextual) to the Open Mike thread, where it isn’t.

        The Original post/s was/were in response to posters writing that David Cunliffe’s wife appeared to be an environmentalist or qualified to run for the Green party.

        I pointed out what she actually does for a job. Nothing wrong with that job. But it ain’t someone battling day in and day out for the environment. It is usually the opposite. She helps corporates get their agendas past legislation, and gets paid for it.

        Then lprent decided that he needed to have a go at me. And claimed I don’t know any environmental law practitioners or understand what they did.

        I responded to that assertion. Tehn se (or someone else) moved my response away and deleted the original. Presumably to leave the misinformation about Ms Price intact, or his ego, or both? We will never know for certain.

        [lprent: Ok, that may have been wrong of me. As far as I can remember (I was pretty tired) I thought it was in the Cunliffe at the Standard post where it would have been quite out of place. I will move things back around when I get chance – probably after work. ]

  38. felix 42

    So it sounds like Key is planning the same bribe-for-idiots as 2008: knock a couple of points off income tax, and then ramp up GST, ACC, fuel levies, vehicle registration, alcohol, ciggies and every other tax, fee, duty and levy that exists.

    Labour needs to show very clearly that it was a con job last time and it’s a con job again.

  39. Anne 43

    It looks like the drip feed of information concerning the GCSB links to NSA has finally begun.

    • karol 43.1

      Interesting. Thanks.

      I’m not sure from the article how much of that stuff is new to the public domain. This for instance:

      The details were in a slide presented at a Five Eyes conference in 2011, released with journalist Glenn Greenwald’s new book No Place To Hide.

      He also released another NSA slide detailing new invasive techniques, in which it stated the spy agency was “one step closer to ‘collecting it all”‘.

      Sounds like slide shows used at 5 Eyes conferences that have been published previously.

      I’ve never heard of “Homing pigeon” before.

      I look forward too learning about what’s new in this book.

  40. Draco T Bastard 44

    On J.K. Rowling:

    Stewart observed that the government’s investment in her had really paid off.

    Which, of course, is how our welfare system should be viewed. The real bludgers are the rich and our investment in them is most definitely not paying off.

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