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Open mike 15/03/2020

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, March 15th, 2020 - 136 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

136 comments on “Open mike 15/03/2020 ”

  1. observer 1

    Two insights from Stuff this morning (I don't need to link to the home page do I?):

    One is from Steven Joyce, and after translation it basically says "I prepared this rant earlier but had to hastily rewrite it on Saturday evening after the government's response, and that's why it makes no sense". It would save him – and us – time if he was honest and just said "I don't know what they're going to do next but I'm already against it, because that's my job".

    The second is from a Covid-19 patient, and after translation it basically says "Joyce has no idea what he's talking about". That one *is* worth reading.

    • I won't waste my time reading it. The man who was the gNatz wonderboy, but who actually fucked up everything he touched – from the Ministry for Everything to Novapay.

      …… about as 'innovative' as a degree in animal buggery

    • Sacha 1.2

      Linking to each article is not hard. Which are on the home page changes all the time.

    • Climaction 1.3

      You have to admit that Steven Joyce makes an excellent point about how the PGF could be better spent during a crises like what we are facing. And Liam Danns comment that the government should spend 2.5 billion seems almost miserly.

      but 2.5b plus the 2b balance that appears to be left in the PGF would make 4.5b, which is the equivalent of almost 7 weeks of international tourism spending, which would be an amazing start given the travel restrictions

      • observer 1.3.1

        I don't think it's an excellent point at all. On Tuesday the government will announce a major economic package, which will inevitably include support for businesses in the regions, especially those reliant on tourism.

        It doesn't matter in the slightest if that is called the Shane Jones Fund or the Totally Different Steven Joyce Fund. It's government cash to save jobs.

        What Joyce forgets to say is "this is possible because I was wrong about the 11 billion dollar hole, sorry, my bad".

        He also manages to tout his brilliance without once acknowledging that borrowing more is not only an option, but now a short-term necessity. Again, that would require a large helping of humble pie, which Joyce can never stomach.

        • Climaction 1.3.1.1

          Blah blah blah My names observer and I don’t like Steven Joyce so he can’t be right about anything.

          Infantile bullshit

          why borrow when useless spending can be reallocated?

          • observer 1.3.1.1.1

            Why borrow? Because even if every cent was allocated to everything you want, that would be nowhere near enough.

            Listen to Wayne on the Covid19 thread:

            "I reckon the govt will need around $40 billion in economic stimulus over the next twelve months. Current annual govt receipts are around $100 billion. These will drop to $60 to 80 billion as the economy retracts, but the govt will need to spend at least $120 billion, instead of the planned $100 billion.

            It will push up govt debt to around 50 to 60% of GDP.

            But there is no choice."

            • Climaction 1.3.1.1.1.1

              Who said don’t borrow? You may have assumed that I meant it’s only a binary choice, it isn’t. Borrow freely. Just don’t borrow to protect non-essential or essentially wasteful current spending.

        • greywarshark 1.3.1.2

          It's great that you are keeping an eye and advising on this observer. It's beyond some people's IQ limit to comprehend.

      • Incognito 1.3.2

        … would make 4.5b, which is the equivalent of almost 7 weeks of international tourism spending …

        Really? Just like Joyce, I don’t think you’re any good with bigly numbers.

  2. Ed 2

    Thank goodness for a sane government like ours.

    Meanwhile in the UK….

    Boris Johnson would appear to be playing Russian roulette with the lives of the vulnerable in the U.K.

    The Tory government's plan assumes catching the virus gives you immunity. This is not yet proven (indeed anecdotally not true) and potentially a major flaw in the plan.

    As the article below argues, “The human species never developed “herd immunity” to polio or smallpox or any virus, really — ever, despite millennia of death and illness and misery.”

    The British government’s Coronavirus strategy, in other words, is founded on the most surreal and astonishing kind of pseudoscience.

    They think that everyone getting sick magically confers resistance on a nation. That is not how disease works. Herd immunity is what happens after large-scale vaccination, as a viral infection subsides."

    https://eand.co/why-britains-coronavirus-strategy-is-literally-one-of-the-most-insane-things-in-modern-history-45c755f1db2d

    • Sabine 2.1

      well it would kill the NHS – great for selling this awesome assett

      it would kill a whole bunch of old people, invalids, chronic ill people etc etc, also win.

      We only have human rights because we give them to us, and when we then consider that others need less rights in order for us to survive, then that is the reaction you get. I would like to point out that Boris Johnson is simply mimicking the Shitface of the US who also would like for people to continue as if there is nothing and if they get ill they should either die quick and silently or heal themselves in their hovels and then go back to work.

    • joe90 2.2

      Do keep up.

      • SPC 2.2.1

        The sacrifice of those old who die, and those poor who make capitalism so profitable. Boris is just channeling his Balliol Etonian education, training boys to run both the class order and empire.

        And so soon after his gratitude to the north for not trusting in socialist answers.

        • McFlock 2.2.1.1

          Heh.

          The thought occurred of a comparison with those societies that had traditions (often just colonial fantasies) of leaving their weak – the old, injured, or feeble babies – to die in the elements for the good of the community, culling the non-producers as it were.

          Tory capitalism does that too, and blames the victims for their own demise.

  3. Observer Tokoroa 3

    We don't know how Lucky we are !

    Yes – we have got all the gormless gluttons of the National Party to put up with – but we do not have the everlasting Eccentricity of the English.

    Boris Johnson the most absurd leader of the 60 Million English, has ditched Science, has vomited and shat on common sense, and made himself and every member of Merry England a global laughing Stock.

    Read this:

    Why Britain’s Coronavirus Strategy is Literally One of the Most Insane Things in Modern History.

    See: Ed – above!

  4. Stunned Mullet 4

    The official advice from the NHS/government in the UK doesn't quite match Ed's link.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/topical-events/coronavirus-covid-19-uk-government-response

  5. Janet 5

    So you think everyone arriving in NZ from tonight onwards is going self – isolate for 14 days ….. Ha Ha Ha

    How , within the family home , in a hotel , in a hut in the forest ?

    • Stunned Mullet 5.1

      Perhaps utilise this method from Israel ?

      'Israel to Track Coronavirus Patients' Phones as Cases Spike to 193'

      ttps://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/coronavirus-cases-in-israel-spike-to-164-nearly-2-500-medical-officials-quarantined-1.8671075

    • I Feel Love 5.2

      I've had to cancel an overseas trip as it would have meant going somewhere, spending 2 weeks in a hotel room, then coming home again.

      • RedLogix 5.2.1

        I urgently needed to come back to NZ for family matters, but now it's impractical for the same reason. There will be millions of similar decisions people will have to make, that will collectively pile up consequences everywhere.

    • observer 5.3

      Please read up on what is happening before your "ha ha ha".

      Will everyone self-isolate? No. But everyone will be be able to be tracked. The latest patient spells this out very clearly in his story. It worked.

      It's the weakest debating point to say not "everyone" wears a seat belt in a car so we shouldn't bother making it compulsory. A rule is introduced, the vast majority follow it, and risk is reduced. You won't get universal compliance outside a dystopian dictatorship, but that's no reason to do nothing.

      • Janet 5.3.1

        Thank you but I have been reading and reading and reading for weeks ….

        Human nature is the problem. What I am waiting to see now is someone I know is coming home to NZ from the States in about a weeks time. He already has said he will self isolate FOR A WEEK …… Question? Does his wife stock up the house and leave the car at the airport then him home alone for 14 days , because if she doesn't and he gets sick then she too becomes a victim ? Will be interesting to see what happens.

        • anker 5.3.1.1

          Janet, re your friend……seriously dob him in. Exercise your civic duty if someone is suspected of not obeying isolation rules……they can then be quaranteened.

          There are very good guidelines on the MOH Covid 19 website regarding self isolation and living with others……….

          I am waiting for some savvy tourist operators to offer self isolation holidays in some of NZ. lovely spots. A stand alone home, with places to walk, swimming pool etc in the middle of nowhere. Food delivered. Wouldn't be too bad.

        • aom 5.3.1.2

          Janet – there is, no doubt, some existing legislation that would allow for confinement in a prison cell for more than 14 days for those who don't give a stuff about the safety of others.

        • greywarshark 5.3.1.3

          I have read the advice that others in the house with someone who is self-isolating but not showing signs of illness can go about their ordinary round, but keep a distance, a metre I think, and the person would be expected to mostly stay in their room, have separate bathroom if possible. Separate cutlery, crockery, glasses, cups etc. Surfaces, door handles, light switches, given a damp wipe and dried. Thinking about using tissues to handle CDs, all that would control spots of possible transmission if there was infection.

          Good hygiene, hand washing routine, paper towels might be best. Towels haven't been mentioned, but damp hand towels used twice would be good carriers. Separate everything soap, toothpaste, toothbrush for the person, is the expectation for people to behave like sensible and responsible citizens.

          I haven't seen this set out in a list, just a general mention. But it would be useful to point to it for those who are living with someone in self-isolation. They shouldn't have to be doing all the instructing.

    • Sacha 5.4

      How

      Ten thousand people have already managed to self-isolate in NZ.

    • KJT 5.5

      Best excuse to go sailing, ever!

    • mary_a 5.6

      @Janet (5) … You have obviously missed something. Please go back and read the PM's statement on how the self isolation will be practised and monitored.

  6. joe90 6

    Idiots went and bought up all the hand sanitiser they could find. Amazon and eBay shut the door on their profiteering. TradeMe?

    Now, while millions of people across the country search in vain for hand sanitizer to protect themselves from the spread of the coronavirus, Mr. Colvin is sitting on 17,700 bottles of the stuff with little idea where to sell them.

    http://archive.li/v1DKw

  7. A 7

    Who will be the bank to donate a portion of additional funds made from the tap n go feature on credit/eftpos cards during the virus of 2020? There are multiple community charities in serious need that support people in a myriad of ways.

    From memory retailers pay $0.80 per transaction where you don't enter your pin to avoid germs and opt to tap instead. They must be swimming in transaction fees with people stocking up.

    • alwyn 7.1

      I think you are exaggerating the fee. I think it is, based on this article, about 1.1% on debit cards. Your number would imply an average transaction of about $90. This is above the maximum amount of $80 for such transactions.

      https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/10/07/846601/banks-on-notice-over-no-paywave-dysfunction-1

      Doesn't mean I approve of the size of the fee mind. I think it is obscene and I have told my bank in writing that I never use the feature and will object to any charge that has not been approved with a pin entry. Don't know how I would get on if one came up mind but I will complain to the Banking Ombudsman if it was to happen.

      • alwyn 7.1.1

        Correction. Average transaction would have ti be about $73. That is less than the maximum of $80 but not by much.

        Thick finger problem with the divide and multiply keys on a calculator.

  8. mpledger 8

    In the USA, people are going round buying up all the hand sanitizers they can find and selling it on Ebay/Amazon at extortionate prices.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/14/technology/coronavirus-purell-wipes-amazon-sellers.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

    • Peter 8.1

      Fair enough. I have it on good authority we're put on planet earth to make as much money as we can.

      When things calm down those who've made a bundle in that scheme can be honoured at the White House.

    • Gabby 8.2

      Don't they have soap over there?

  9. Sanctuary 9

    It is a distinctly Kiwi form of voluntary self-isolation being proposed. Voluntary for those who agree, compulsory for everyone else. Just like school camps really.

  10. Paaparakauta 10

    What's this about a racehorse called Coronavirus ?

    It sounds like a mean critter ..

  11. Janet 11

    Seems we may have a cruise ship with corona virus on board. Seize the ship reassign it to be a dedicated floating corona virus hospital ! It won,t have anything better to do for a while .

    • Alice Tectonite 11.1

      Coronavirus isolation on a cruise ship in port. What could possibly go wrong?

      • KJT 11.1.1

        It's at anchor. No alongside berths for cruise ships in Akaroa.

        • Alice Tectonite 11.1.1.1

          Assumed that Janet's idea of turning it into a floating isolation hospital would involve it being taken somewhere where it could dock at a wharf or quayside (like the Diamond Princess in Japan). All in all a pretty terrible idea …

          • RedLogix 11.1.1.1.1

            Yeah. Cruise ships are notorious for disease outbreaks already. Cabins too small, plumbing not ideal for preventing virus spread, same with ventilation systems, and multiple common systems like big kitchens and services that are obvious points of weakness.

    • SPC 11.2

      Maybe the government could exchange health services for lease of a cruise ship for the homeless.

    • McFlock 11.3

      Japanese tried that. Worth a go, big mistake.

  12. RedBaronCV 12

    And this little nugget from the Guardian. Privatising elective surgery while allowing the NHS to be potentially overrun by coronavirus because social distancing is not being promoted. Great way to use available medical staff and resources.

    Fortunately I can see other sectors of the UK just ignoring Boris and getting on with suppressing high risk activities.

    “NHS England will this week issue new guidance to hospitals and clinical commissioning groups on working with the private sector to carry out more non-urgent operations on NHS patients to free up beds”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/14/coronavirus-nhs-private-hospitals-join-forces-academics-warn-over-strategy

  13. Anker 13

    Janet, our fantastic early acting PM ensured that none of those people were allowed to dis embark last night. Isn’t that/she good.

  14. joe90 14

    Say your pwayers, wiwuss!

  15. SPC 15

    This will certainly test the nimbleness and planning ability of sports administrators.

    1. Kudos to the Phoenix for anticipating and planning for having to play remaining games in Oz (in front of no crowds albeit no home semi-final now possible).

    2. Super Rugby …

    Maybe they should consider bumping up the schedule for the remaining games between home teams and hold those.

    3. UK Rugby and Football …

    After a break return to completing the 2019-2020 season later in the 2020 calendar year. Consider reducing the 2020-2021 comp into one with one round.

  16. Observer Tokoroa 16

    The Republicans are silent

    They have gone through the upside down mongrel speech, by which their beloved Idiot, Donald Trump, bypasses anyone in the Globe at any time.

    But the Donald is not the real Nitwit. He suffers from a horrendous gulf ball disorder, and has lost any normal brain power. Although he does keep his everlasting Bullying. Possibly other pastimes too.

    The real Brainless lot are the Republicans. They don't know sickness from vomit. They don't even know their own names. For they do not Speak.

    They are a Virus in upside down action. And have no intention of doing anything for this collapsed United States of America.

    Stupidity is all they have. Republicans only ever want Stupidity.

  17. Muttonbird 17

    Farrar watch:

    A few thoughts…he's distancing himself and his paymasters from their recent politicising of the government response. He's doing this by collectivising and relabelling it "public" pressure.

    My recollection of recent days is that the public haven't said anything much – just a couple of entrepreneurs, one a toymaker, Mowbray, and the other the Trademe guy Sam Morgan.

    There's been plenty of media pressure of course but they are in the business of creating controversy in order to sell papers.

    I think Farrar and National are happy to see the economy tank as much as possible under Labour's watch – he'll use it closer to election.

  18. Fireblade 18

    The virus situation is getting scary. We are fortunate to live in NZ right now, but I'm very anxious and frightened to be honest.

    Please take care everyone.

    • RedLogix 18.1

      For what it's worth I completely empathise with that; it's entirely normal and justified to be at anxious about this.

      Two thoughts. People naturally vary in their response to negative events and threat. Some people just shrug it off, others are intensely affected and most people lie on a spectrum between. Don't be disconcerted by others who don't react like you do; sometimes strong fear is useless and paralysing, other times it's informative and drives the correct response. Only with hindsight do we know which people were right.

      Don't run away from it, confront it now, find out as much as you can and try to understand what is really happening. Treat it as an interesting opportunity to learn. Get the emotional impact over early, before any potential crisis really hits home, and if and when the virus does hit you'll be much stronger and more likely to deal with it rationally.

      Sorry if this sounds a bit bromidey, but I hope it is of some help.

      Cheers

  19. RedbaronCV 19

    Time to turbo charge the role of unions in the workplace again? At least( even if it is by skype) there would be a freer and more realistic discussion of who is going to suffer and how much they will need instead of an employer driven profit focus. Heaven forbid but places may decide to allocate the funds available for wages rather more equitably so the top end takes the biggest hit – why not?

  20. Robert Guyton 20

    David Farrar: "’Im much more satisfied with the Government’s response to the Coronavirus pandemic than I was a week ago."

    I

    d

    i

    o

    t.

    • McFlock 20.1

      I'm sure that the Prime Minister was eagerly monitoring the situation and is now greatly relieved that her government's response to this crisis has lately achieved some level of satisfaction from that fucking tool.

  21. Adrian Thornton 21

    And meanwhile the est Dems and MSM liberal media continue to demand that everyone go along with their bizzaro Alice in Wonderland craziness….although it seems plenty of people on TS are happy as pigs in shit to go along with their weird fantasy make believe world, says volumes about how easy it is to corral huge parts of any population..pretty depressing to witness in real time though…

    • The Al1en 21.1

      So you're saying potential Sanders voters are easily led by the media? You're so special you can see through it all and not be affected. If only everyone would be like you, though you know what they say when it's everyone else that's crazy and you're the only sane one.

      Looking at all the polls, which broadly mirror those in Illinois, it really does, for better or worse, seem like a clear rejection by the voters of Bernie's run.

      From real clear politics.

      Illinois Democratic Primary:

      Emerson – Biden 57, Sanders 36, Biden +21

      Gravis – Biden 63, Sanders 25, Biden +38

      • Adrian Thornton 21.1.1

        What are saying? that you seriously don't see that Biden is suffering from some kind of age related cognitive decline?..you don't have to be special to see that obvious truth.. just have eyes that can see and ears that can listen..I assume you are still in possession of those facilities..maybe try using them for a change.

        • McFlock 21.1.1.1

          You have to be pretty special to make that the biggest egg in your omlette.

          Even if it were anything other than the cognitive bias of the left's equivalent of the Ancient Mariner, voters do seem to prefer to vote for Biden.

          • RedLogix 21.1.1.1.1

            biggest egg in your omlette.

            Given that POTUS has their finger on the entire US nuclear arsenal; it seems a pretty big egg to me. And there are plenty of video clips out there showing Biden behaving quite erratically under pressure.

            Wouldn't it be ironic if the world came to look back on Trump with a nostalgic fondness ….devil

            • McFlock 21.1.1.1.1.1

              Biden's managed to get down to two candidates in the primaries without a dozen sexual assault allegations and stopping a debate to assure the nation his penis is of adequate size.

              When you hit rock bottom, everywhere is up.

              • RedLogix

                Jeeze search engines are amazing. Given the left insist there is zero excuse for this sort of thing, the Dems really do have to dump him.

                And as low as Trump is, it’s a failure of imagination to think he is the worst humans can be. Rock bottom is a fair bit further down the stack of turtles man.

                • McFlock

                  I'm sure there can be worse people than dolt45. They'd have to make a massive effort, though. And Biden ain't anywhere close.

                  Not in sexual assault allegations, not in "erratic behaviour", and not in gross incompetence. .

                  • RedLogix

                    So unlike a whole bunch of other accused men I can think of, you're giving Biden a free pass on the sexual allegations because … Democrat?

                    • McFlock

                      Who says free pass?

                      I'm just saying that a dude who isn't on audio boasting about grabbing women by the pussy is a step up from the current guy, and people seem to be voting for the small step up (in that regard) rather than voting for the nice guy who managed to use his political skills in senate to name a couple of post offices and get a CoL increase for veterans.

                    • RedLogix

                      I'm just saying that a dude who isn't on audio boasting about grabbing women by the pussy

                      Correct me if I'm wrong, but have any of the women involved come forward with assault allegations? By contrast we have a number of women making direct allegations of inappropriate behaviour around Biden and the left insists that all women must be believed all the time. Except apparently when Democrat.

                      The lack of moral consistency is kind of obvious. Personally I've always argued that the sexual interactions between the sexes is complex, nuanced and fraught; this is an arena where we should tread cautiously and with proportionality. But whenever I've openly advocated this, I've been shouted down as a virtual rape apologist.

                    • McFlock

                      Correct me if I'm wrong, but have any of the women involved come forward with assault allegations?

                      You're joking, right? Did you forget it all, or were you not paying attention?

                      Use your fabled google powers. The extensive list of allegations against the current oaf even has its own wikipedia page. And yeah, it goes well beyond what women have complained about with Biden. I know this doesn't compute for you, you've previously made that very clear.

                      But hey, Sanders is the better human being. Trouble is, Biden is the better politician and people are voting for him. In a perfect world Sanders would already be president and running for reelection.

                    • RedLogix

                      Yes there is a solid history of these allegations. I was careless in framing that point. Still the point remains, if the same allegations raised against Biden were made against any Republican, there would be a massive left wing response.

                    • McFlock

                      Well, depending on intent he's close to the Al Franken Line, sure.

                      Does he meet it? Probably not. Should people vote for Sanders instead? Well, probably. But if Sanders can't beat a degenerate senile Cosby-esque fiend like Biden, how the fuck will he beat a fiendishly clever totally healthy and completely nonracist nonsexist non-rapist demigod like dolt45? You can't vaccinate against covid-19 with "I told you so" any more than you can vaccinate against covid-19 with the flu vaccine, no matter what people with a natural talent for science might say.

          • The Al1en 21.1.1.1.2

            And by some number if you look at the recent polling data.

        • The Al1en 21.1.1.2

          Quite clearly, I'm saying the voters appear to have made up their minds, and despite your best intentions otherwise, it's almost done for Bernie.

          The interesting thing, which you didn't pick up on, is how the media can sway the democratic voters, but not you. Surely if one believes in the message, it doesn't disappear with negative election ads, after all, it hasn't for you, has it?

          All that shows, to me, is the Sander's vote from '16 was anti Hilary and not much more. It says heaps about the electorate as a whole they prefer someone with "age related cognitive decline" to the alternative. Politics is always about the numbers, and those landslide opinion polls speak so much louder than your rhetoric.

      • KJT 21.1.2

        Yeah. The unrelenting propaganda against Sanders has no effect, of course.

        • The Al1en 21.1.2.1

          But then you and Thornton haven't fallen for it, have you? So are you saying those who voted Bernie in 2016 are thick and easily led?

          • RedLogix 21.1.2.1.1

            Given that I strongly supported Sanders in 2016 (against considerable pushback here I might add) … then yes I think that is exactly what KJT must be implying cheeky

            • KJT 21.1.2.1.1.1

              We all know that well funded, "rightish" campaigns, are not above using psychological techniques from advertising, combined with outright lies, to remain in power.

              That doesn't say that people are thick.

              It says that the manipulation and propaganda techniques, especially when there is a lot of money to pay for them, are too good.

              It would be much better for democracy, if that money was kept out of politics.

              It wasn't long ago that the people here, claiming Biden is the result of "well informed" voters, were claiming that the working class voters that voted for Brexit, were manipulated thicko's. Cognitive dissonance, much!

        • McFlock 21.1.2.2

          They call Sanders a commie, and they call Biden doolally. Meh.

    • Gabby 21.2

      I'm not going along with anything, not being a yanker and all.

  22. David Mac 22

    If I said the things I say in here in some counties I could be looking at the inside of a cell before sunrise. Many of us could be. Traitor! Your case will be heard in 2023.

    I miss John Clarke, I think we should produce a $17 dollar note in his honour. I think he is our John Lennon. We don't know how lucky we are.

    • David Mac 22.1

      I think money collectors the world over would be intrigued by a limited run official NZ Govt $17 dollar note. A device to embrace the memory of one of our most favorite square pegs in a round hole.

      We need to find some creative ways of keeping the overseas dollar flowing…without touching.

  23. joe90 23

    gangster state

  24. joe90 24

    Getting real.

    – Police began closing off access to the Philippines’ sprawling and densely populated capital of Manila on Sunday, imposing a quarantine that officials hope will curb the nation’s rising number of coronavirus cases.

    Officers armed with rifles blocked off main roads into the city of some 12 million as domestic flights to and from Manila were halted early Sunday for a monthlong isolation of the capital.

    Mass gatherings and school at all levels have also been called off, but delays and exceptions have led public health experts to question how effective President Rodrigo Duterte’s measures will be.

    https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/03/15/asia-pacific/philippines-manila-coronavirus-infections-doubles/#.Xm3vnHLRWUk

    • RedLogix 24.1

      Good. Now if the WHO had not entirely blown it's credibility the past two months, what I would want to see is a set of standard global rules that enforced a common set of travel rule, social distancing and shut down of non-core economic activity … across the whole planet …. for 3 – 6 weeks.

      Get this bastard bug by the throat and throttle it now. Go hard, go early will be the least damaging choice now.

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