Open mike 15/10/2022

111 comments on “Open mike 15/10/2022 ”

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1. observer 1

   15 October 2022 at 6:34 am

   I suppose over the years I've seen hundreds of press conferences by politicians. This morning might have been the very worst (and I even watched some of Trump's!).

   Every idiot who has grumbled about our PM's press conferences ("Jessica, Tova") should see the British PM in action. Compare and contrast. Seriously, words can't describe how bad it was. And she gave up after 4 questions.

   Train wreck? No. People can survive train wrecks.
   • Tony Veitch 1.1

     15 October 2022 at 7:06 am

     She also gave virtually the same non-answer to each question.

     Jacinda is in a different class to any bumbling tory!
     • higherstandard 1.1.1

       15 October 2022 at 9:17 am

       There's no question that Ardern is a far far better communicator than Liz Truss.

       She does however provide similar inane and down right nonsense in response to questions which is an all too familiar trait of politicians throughout the world.

       https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/top/476386/local-body-elections-pm-jacinda-ardern-on-left-s-losses

       I'd also suggest that the UK media are considerably tougher, more well informed and less star struck by politicians than virtually all of their counterparts in NZ.
       • Patricia Bremner 1.1.1.1

         15 October 2022 at 11:35 am

         Higherstandard, yet those hard headed British journalists rate Jacinda Ardern. You're dissing her while she was pointing out that although some Mayors had changed many had not, and voters were disadvantaged by late receipt of papers, and a patchy mail service. Now that may or may not be pertinent.

         Some contests were very close (Gore) and others a name draw between two candidates. So to say there was a wide spread swing away is hyperbole. Auckland showed a big swing back to their usual BAU. No surprise there.

         If anything has changed after the Pandemic, it is support for the far right Act and silent support. It is alarming to see this, and see notice given by the group who wish to "make NZ ungovernable" that they intend to infiltrate the Councils and Boards. Some now have members with some mighty strange affiliations.

         Yet you still talk as though Jacinda Ardern is responsible for this, when a wish for "different outcomes" is shaking a right wing British government and Left wing parties appear to be favoured by a 30% majority in Britain, Truss has thrown a friend to the wolves, as she discovers that people feel angry and threatened, inside her team and countrywide.

         The inflation Genie and War is wreaking havoc. Change will come ready or not imo. The Fire economy begins again? I hope we realise letting the rich mop up mortgagee sales is the wrong medicine. Otherwise it is back to BAU.
         • higherstandard 1.1.1.1.1

           15 October 2022 at 12:00 pm

           Perhaps you should listen to Ardern's response to questions from Espiner about a certain ex minister moving into the public relations field …from about the 6 minute mark.

           The PM's comments are frankly absurd.
           • Incognito 1.1.1.1.1.1

             15 October 2022 at 12:25 pm

             Start a new thread if you have something to say about another topic.
     • Jester 1.1.2

       15 October 2022 at 9:34 am

       "I refute the premise of that question" = I do not want to answer that.
       • Patricia Bremner 1.1.2.1

         15 October 2022 at 11:47 am

         When the basis of a question is loaded or flawed… why would the PM go there? Are you denying her a human right to not answer?
         • Anne 1.1.2.1.1

           15 October 2022 at 1:16 pm

           

           Every time I have heard Ardern use the response:

           "I refute the premise of that question"

           the question has been so outrageously biased and wrong in its conception, that it surprises me she doesn't respond in much stronger terms. Perhaps its time to roll back at the questioner in a similar mode.

           Oops: Peter beat me to it. 🙂
         • Jester 1.1.2.1.2

           15 October 2022 at 1:44 pm

           Jacinda is a far better communicator than Liz Truss. She is far better at saying a lot without answering the question asked.
           • observer 1.1.2.1.2.1

             15 October 2022 at 2:05 pm

             Not just about being a better communicator. It's about basic respect and accountability.

             Ardern's Beehive press conferences last up to an hour, minimum 30 mins. Count the number of questions taken, with follow-ups allowed.

             You can go back through 5 years of these, and you will be hard pressed to find any instances of Ardern walking out after 4 minutes of questions.

             Whether you like the answers will obviously depend on our various political leanings, that's inevitably subjective. But measuring time and numbers is not a matter of opinion, it's measurable maths. She fronts up, and the reporters – all of them – have every chance to ask whatever they want, and do.
       • Peter 1.1.2.2

         15 October 2022 at 11:49 am

         If you refute the premise of a question, which is reasonable position to take, is it best to say "I refute the premise of that question" or "You are talking crap, I'm not going to dignify it with an answer"? Especially when it is patently obvious the questioner is grandstanding, playing games trying to put the person under pressure, not seeking some grand elucidation.

         Or maybe the response, rather than a rejection of the premise, is a churlish "You journalists are all the same." Which would be followed by the adoring supporters saying, "God, that Muldoon showed them who was boss."
         • Hunter Thompson II 1.1.2.2.1

           19 October 2022 at 10:51 pm

           To refute an accusation is to prove it is false.

           To deny an accusation is to merely assert it is false.

           [Usage and Abusage, Penguin Reference Books, 1947 p 262.]

           JA confuses the two, as do many reporters,
       • Louis 1.1.2.3

         15 October 2022 at 2:42 pm

         @Jester. Whenever the PM refutes the premise of a question, she explains why and often in detail.
         • Jester 1.1.2.3.1

           15 October 2022 at 4:50 pm

           No she doesn't. She refutes it and moves to the next question to avoid it.
           • Anne 1.1.2.3.1.1

             15 October 2022 at 5:33 pm

             Nope. She moves onto the next question because the previous question is either disingenuous or the questioner is attempting to undermine her by way of introducing a clearly false premise.

             The vindictive shit journalist, Barry Soper is renowned for the latter.
           • Louis 1.1.2.3.1.2

             15 October 2022 at 10:03 pm

             The PM does nothing of the sort, you're incorrect Jester. Suggest you watch question time.
             • Jester …

               15 October 2022 at 11:51 pm

               How many times has Jacinda Ardern rejected the premise of the question? – YouTube
               • Louis …

                 16 October 2022 at 12:13 pm

                 A highly edited political hit job doesn't prove your opinion Jester. Looks like you have never watched question time, nor media standups in their entirety,
     • X Socialist 1.1.3

       15 October 2022 at 9:46 am

       Yeah, it was a terrible speech. The Tories made a mistake with that one. She has the personality of a brick wall, and not much else. But Tony, when you say: ''Jacinda is in a different class to any bumbling tory,!'' you are showing
       the type of political blindness that is sending our Labour Party to the opposition benches for a very long time. Why are you worried about Liz Truss? If the recent forced maniacal laughter from Jacinda when asked a question recently is anything to go by, we have more pressing issues closer to home. And let's not forget we have the leaders debates coming up. Luxon is spoilt for options to attack Jacinda with. Much is made of Luxon's ignorance and bumblings during interviews. That's all true. But the reality is, Luxon only needs to put on a half decent show. Jacinda needs to put on a performance that would rival the Gettysburg Address.
       • Anne 1.1.3.1

         15 October 2022 at 10:42 am

         "If the recent forced maniacal laughter from Jacinda when asked a question recently…."

         Oh dear, so because Jacinda Ardern laughed out loud about something she is "maniacal"? Well I suggest this descriptive term is in the eyes/ears of only the commenter. Infectious laughing on TV or anywhere else is acceptable and not the least bit "maniacal".

         This commenter seems to have a malevolent attitude towards anything associated with the Prime Minister and her government which does not bode well for reasoned debate.
         • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.1.3.1.1

           15 October 2022 at 10:47 am

           "Maniacal" ? Ya gotta wonder….must be very dark inside that part of the rabbit warren.
           • joe90 1.1.3.1.1.1

             15 October 2022 at 11:00 am

             It's the new shrill.
         • X Socialist 1.1.3.1.2

           15 October 2022 at 12:23 pm

           Anne, you should read up on psychology. In particular the body cues people use when stressed, especially when reality is at odds with a persons narrative. I have never seen Jacinda laugh like this before. But maybe you are right – maniacal may be too stronger word. How about a dignified cackle?

           I would like to draw your attention to Megan Woods who seems to be more observant than you and others. Maybe she wants the top job?

           PM Jacinda Ardern laughing off suggestions Labour got 'a hiding' in local body elections. (TVNZ) pic.twitter.com/EN7gpHG72q

           — Aaron Dahmen (@dahmenaaron) October 9, 2022
           • Incognito 1.1.3.1.2.1

             15 October 2022 at 12:41 pm

             I could count the droplets of sweat forming on her eyebrows

             People see, hear, and believe what they want, as deftly demonstrated by the prosaic language in your comments.

             Ardern has dealt with much bigger fires than numpty questions that are based on trying to connect dots in a speculative manner to extract a comment.
             • X Socialist …

               15 October 2022 at 1:08 pm

               ''I could count the droplets of sweat forming on her eyebrows.''

               I couldn't. But I can index her behaviour to past behaviour. Hence my comment. I'm only one of many who observed that strange laugh when related to the question posed.

               ''People see, hear, and believe what they want, as deftly demonstrated by the prosaic language in your comments.''

               That is true to a certain degree. So we should go looking for facts and collaborating evidence. My evidence is political polls, Megan Woods and other commentators who observed her laugh and commented in a similar vain. In fact there is common descriptor for that laugh Jacinda gave.

               ''Nervous laughter:

               Nervous laughter happens for a number of reasons. Some research suggests that your body uses this sort of mechanism to regulate emotion. Other research has found that nervous laughter may be a defense mechanism against emotions that may make us feel uncomfortable. Either way, it's pretty weird to experience.''

               ''Ardern has dealt with much bigger fires than numpty questions that are based on trying to connect dots in a speculative manner to extract a comment.''

               Again you may be right. She could have been laughing at the questioner because someone had told her the questioner was a 3 second wonder in bed. But I think that nervous laugh is going to become more common in coming months.
               • Incognito …

                 15 October 2022 at 1:32 pm

                 Actually, I as referring to Megan Woods, and you again proved my point that you see what you want to see.

                 I missed the comment of Woods on that interview, BTW. Or were you mind-reading her too?

                 Are you a laughing expert by any chance? Nice quote, but no link

                 Never met a “3 second wonder in bed”; is that about tickling?

                 I will watch out for nervous laughter in coming months and let it cloud guide my thinking and ultimately my vote.
                 • X Socialist …

                   15 October 2022 at 2:11 pm

                   ''Actually, I was referring to Megan Woods, and you again proved my point that you see what you want to see.''

                   Oh, thanks for telling me. But she's not the PM yet. Of course your hint that subjective perceptions can mean anything was addressed with objective factors to back up the many of us who, funnily enough, had the same subjective perceptions. Megan woods was auxiliary to the main actor. Sometimes you have to assume a commentator will stay with the argument without resorting to parlour tricks.

                   As for the rest of your comments, they are of little value. In fact they are very well crafted inanities that would lead some apparatchiks to think you are a very witty and intelligent man. I think you are, but your reply is the written equivalent of a nervous laugh against a narrative that has merit, but isn't wanted on this blog.
                   • Incognito …

                     15 October 2022 at 2:45 pm

                     You asked us to direct our attention to Woods, so I did.

                     I personally don’t know any “parlour tricks”, unless it involves tickling.

                     Obviously, I’m pushing back on your narrative into more objective territory with a less biased perspective, but the Force is strong with you.

                     As to what is wanted on this blog, I cannot answer this; what do you want on this blog? Your user name is not as self-explanatory as you might think and there are very few actual mind readers on this site.

                     The kaupapa of this site is robust debate, preferably informed and rich with some original thinking and imaginative input. You have a long way to go still.
                   • Tony Veitch …

                     15 October 2022 at 3:38 pm

                     You, sir (?) are a concern troll. Your non de plume should be better as Ex Socialist.
                   • X Socialist …

                     15 October 2022 at 4:25 pm

                     Concern troll is very apt. Labour has blown a gift bestowed on us from Winston Peters. We forgot how lucky we were.

                     ''Your non de plume should be better as Ex Socialist.''

                     I decided to leave the the E out for brevity. However as Incognito has shown – anything can mean anything.
                   • Incognito []

                     15 October 2022 at 4:53 pm

                     Nope, not anything means anything. If you think or believe that you’ve lost your grip on reality and you might as well wear virtual-reality googles 24/7 – we’re not as far away from that as you might think, which is why there’s so much gaslighting happening.

                     Which is why we [have to] do reality checks all the time, individually-collectively, by pinching others and ourselves.
           • Drowsy M. Kram 1.1.3.1.2.2

             15 October 2022 at 1:54 pm

             The Role of Contextual Information in Classifying Spontaneous Social Laughter [30 August 2022]

             Do "body cues" include eyebrows? Imho, your comment reads like sour grapes. 'Critiquing' our PM for having a laugh is weak ‘dirt‘ – Nanny next?

             Muller mum on toilet seat photo [7 July 2020]

             I saw you praying in the chapel [8 October 2020]

             "He is a really prodigious talent, he's got really complementary skills, he's got a big brain and he does a great work ethic. So he's going to be taking it to Grant Robertson." [2 December 2021]

             National's previous scandals under scrutiny after Sam Uffindell admits to violently assaulting boy at school [9 August 2022]

             Just dire…
           • mpledger 1.1.3.1.2.3

             16 October 2022 at 10:05 am

             Given some of the non-Labour people who won in the local body elections, I would say it is to Labour's advantage for the next election.
       • Radical Alternative 1.1.3.2

         15 October 2022 at 12:13 pm

         She's still the most popular politician in the country. People have seen Luxon, and they don't like him. At least Key was pretty good at hiding his contempt for 70% of the public.
         • JO 1.1.3.2.1

           15 October 2022 at 1:10 pm

           Three taut true sentences
         • X Socialist 1.1.3.2.2

           15 October 2022 at 2:26 pm

           ''She's still the most popular politician in the country''

           That's a fact according to the polls. But, her popularity is declining along with that of Luxons. Is there a common denominator?

           The next question is ''so what?'' I mean that seriously.
           • Incognito 1.1.3.2.2.1

             15 October 2022 at 2:35 pm

             Oh, how we laughed!
             • X Socialist …

               15 October 2022 at 5:27 pm

               No need for sarcasm. I was just covering my arse in case someone accuses me of nastiness masquerading as a question. The question was genuine.

               I don't think RA has thought things through. What's the point of crowing about Jacinda being the most popular polly in the country when according to polls the Tories and ACT could form a gummint if an election was held tomorrow? Of course all political parties have problems at the moment:

               1- Labour – Jacinda's fading popularity and voter backlash.

               2- National – ACT and their bottom line for coalition. Luxon's unlikeablity.

               3-The Greens – Voter backlash and internal ructions. The rise of Chlöe Swarbrick. The decline of James Shaw.

               4- The Maori Party. Voter backlash against Maori coming. Some from Maori. Allegations against John Tamihere for having his fingers in a forbidden cookie jar.

               Does this chess board of moves not excite you, Incognito?
               • Incognito …

                 15 October 2022 at 6:47 pm

                 You have no sense of humour or a very short & selective memory, or both. Anywho, covering your arse is moot when you’re showing your true colours.

                 You say that your question was genuine, but it was followed with this:

                 The next question is ''so what?'' I mean that seriously.

                 Seriously? Do you have discussions with your parsnip? By candlelight?

                 You appear to live in an alternate reality judging by your 4 bullet points. Stop smoking your own dope and the fog may lift, eventually. I’m not into gaming and virtual reality, so no, it does not ‘excite’ me the slightest, but it seems to work for you!? I do like a good game of chess though, where B & W pieces mean something.

                 You certainly drifted a long way from the first comment in this thread about the train wreck that was the speech appearance by Liz Truss.

                 PS I actually like Luxon a lot, but he’s utterly shit terrible at being a politician and LOTO. He would be a shambolic PM, which is what Seymour and ACT are counting on.
                 • X Socialist …

                   15 October 2022 at 7:38 pm

                   Jeepers. Talking about showing ones true colours. I tried to expand on the question I asked. Your reply was filled with invective. Ironically the PS was the only decent thing you wrote. I'm sorry about straying from the topic. I thought anything went in open mike. Next time I will start a new thread.
   • Tony Veitch 1.2

     15 October 2022 at 7:29 am

     Link:
   • Ad 1.3

     15 October 2022 at 8:59 am

     Much and all as I truly loathe the UK Conservative Party and all they stand for, Truss must get her show together and her team must help her.

     They have been elected into power until 2025.

     The UK needs a strong financial industry to have a strong economy, and if that gets seriously worse it will affect trade with both Australia and New Zealand.

     Also the destabilisation of about 20 million pensioners livelihoods is not cool and looks like it will continue for months.

     Truss must get her show together.
     • weka 1.3.1

       15 October 2022 at 9:42 am

       what's the main trade between NZ and the UK?
       • pat 1.3.1.1

         15 October 2022 at 9:51 am

         "New Zealand’s main goods exports to the UK include meat, wine, fruit, some machinery, eggs, honey and wool – a total of NZ$1.5 billion.

         The main goods imports from the UK include vehicles and parts, machinery, equipment, and pharmaceuticals – a total of NZ$1.7 billion.

         There is also substantial services trade, worth NZ$2.8 billion. New Zealand services exports to the UK are dominated by travel, transport and business services."

         https://www.mfat.govt.nz/en/trade/free-trade-agreements/free-trade-agreements-concluded-but-not-in-force/new-zealand-united-kingdom-free-trade-agreement/key-facts-on-new-zealand-united-kingdom-trade/
     • aj 1.3.2

       15 October 2022 at 10:30 am

       In power to 2025. This is the problem. In a perfect world enough tories would have the courage to rebel and force another election for the good of the country. Let the public decide. No, they won't, it will never happen and that ship is sinking.
   • joe90 1.4

     15 October 2022 at 9:07 am

     The pommie rags are brutal.

     Day one: Which wet lettuce will last longer? https://t.co/vReEEeL6jk

     — Daily Star (@dailystar) October 14, 2022
   • weka 1.5

     15 October 2022 at 9:41 am

     Just started watching and couldn't get past,

     My conviction [pause]…

     because I started laughing.
     • Anne 1.5.1

       15 October 2022 at 10:47 am

       I did better than that – got as far as the next few words,

       is rooted in growth…

       before hitting the stop button.
   • Matiri 1.6

     15 October 2022 at 1:27 pm

     Truss had a very short list of who she was going to allow questions from – Telegraph, Sun, BBC and ITV. Shame for her that they still asked tricky questions! They all got the same scripted stilted response which bore no relation to the question – energy payments, growth, global situation… and then she scurried off.
2. bwaghorn 2

   15 October 2022 at 7:16 am

   https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/130076736/here-are-the-economic-policies-national-says-it-will-cull

   Less tax more unemployed, what national stands for.

   Although I'm on the fence on the farming tax , 8 billion people need all the food grown out on the farm at this stage ,and it's clear the left don't get it!
   • Ad 2.1

     15 October 2022 at 9:03 am

     We should only sell our food to the highest priced buyer.

     More Waitrose and a whole less Aldi.

     Mass industrial agricultural anything is no use to New Zealand.
     • Patricia Bremner 2.1.1

       15 October 2022 at 11:59 am

       So the rest compete with the wealthy for the food? Come again!!

       I do agree about industrial farming, but not for the above reason.
       • Belladonna 2.1.1.1

         15 October 2022 at 1:38 pm

         The only reason that the world can feed its population (not so much here in NZ, but in the first world economies) is industrial farming.

         Malthus was right (for the agricultural environment in which he lived) – it is only the industrialized farming and food preservation technologies which have enabled us to support our world population with sufficient reserves to support our lifestyle. [All those XR protesters only have the resources to protest because of industrialized farming – including oil for energy – something few of them are willing to acknowledge.]

         You can't shy away from it. Moving away from industrialized farming will result in food shortages, increased prices, and eventually starvation for some of the population.

         Moving to sustainable industrialized farming, is another matter.

         https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-malthus-predicted-1798-food-shortages/
       • Ad 2.1.1.2

         15 October 2022 at 1:44 pm

         Most compete already for our food, and that competition is how our country has paid for most of our social democracy for a century.

         Welcome to the world of sales.
   • Tricledrown 2.2

     15 October 2022 at 9:20 am

     bwaghorn.8 billion people won't be feed if global warming continues to wreek havoc floods droughts and wars. Not doing anything about climate change is going to mean more people going hungry .The right continue to bury their head in the sand and blame the left for bringing it to our attention and doing something about it.
     • bwaghorn 2.2.1

       15 October 2022 at 7:08 pm

       I never said we shouldn't do anything about cc,

       Slam frivolous emissions like tourism, would sporting fixtures, any shit people consume that isn't related to survival, destroying rural nz so we can be leaders(although I doubt any one will follow) is ridiculous
3. aj 3

   15 October 2022 at 8:22 am

   Relevant news at a time when Groundswell remains anchored in the 1950's. It's never been better for farmers. Never a nod in the direction of the government for helping prop up the trading conditions leading to these results.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/130159725/alliance-group-records-most-profitable-year-to-date

   The pair told farmers at a meeting in Balclutha earlier this week that Alliance had recorded its most profitable year to date.

   ‘’We’ve never been more profitable – we’ve seen increases year-on-year,’’ Surveyor said.

   As a result, Alliance would reward farmers with a profit distribution and bonus share issue, he said.
   • PsyclingLeft.Always 3.1

     15 October 2022 at 8:43 am

     ‘’We’ve never been more profitable – we’ve seen increases year-on-year,’’ Surveyor said.

     Groundswell remains anchored in the 1950's.

     Absolutely. Only the Tractors have changed ! And they are organising yet another Tractor protest. Probably with accompaniment anti Jacinda ( pretty communist etc etc) placards

     People should read your…and other links, and, well…just look at the Tractors, not hard to see who is doing well.

     FYI…of course there is a separate group of Farmers..who dont support the groundswell dino's. And clearly see the Future. Our Earth's heating !…and they are trying to change others mindset. Problem is the aforesaid groundswellers mind.. set is in concrete.

     “This is our nuclear moment for farming.”

     https://www.odt.co.nz/rural-life/rural-life-other/emissions-pricing-rural-nz-%E2%80%98ready%E2%80%99-protest

     Groundswell plans nationwide tractor protest

     https://www.odt.co.nz/rural-life/rural-life-other/groundswell-plans-nationwide-tractor-protest
     • Graeme 3.1.1

       15 October 2022 at 9:09 am

       Farming culture is the ultimate echo chamber. Generally the only social contact a farmer has is his family (generally farmers) and other farmers. It's rare that someone without a farming background will be employed on a farm so it goes on. It's a world quite separate to the rest of society. Agreement and conformity are prioritised over rational thought, or even just thought.

       When that insular, but also rather secure world is questioned by wider society, and the environment they rely on keep farming, it is a direct threat to their wellbeing.

       Don't expect a rational response.

       There's also a huge international industry that's dependant on the individual farmer's cashflow to supply their tractors, irrigators, fertiliser, seed, feed, genetics and the myriad of other inputs that go in to a farm. On this side it's a bit more intelligent and rational, but the money is huge and international, most inputs aren't in $NZ.

       Going to be a bit of a ride.
       • PsyclingLeft.Always 3.1.1.1

         15 October 2022 at 9:23 am

         I hear you. I've worked Urban and Rural. Quite varied jobs. With the Rural…a lot of VERY Nice people. And mostly.. pretty laidback. But definitely when its "them" against Us (Rural folk), Stand Together becomes the prime directive. And in times of strife absolutely ..prime. However those times include drought…which is only going to get worse as we continue Earth heating. Farmers need to see this. Pouring water on grass , to make milk…is so past its use by.

         I do see some of their bewilderment ? frustration? but I still think they need to see a big picture.
       • joe90 3.1.1.2

         15 October 2022 at 9:28 am

         or even just thought.

         There's nothing quite like a Taranaki cockie telling you about how farm succession planning hard work got him into his prime >350ha dairy unit.
         • Descendant Of Smith 3.1.1.2.1

           15 October 2022 at 10:16 am

           On his stolen peppercorn lease land.
   • Radical Alternative 3.2

     15 October 2022 at 9:41 am

     Got a feeling the protest will be a bit of a shitshow. Last time round the organisers had to impose a list of approved messages for participants, and that was before the Wellington riot. There's a lot of maniacs out there looking to latch onto the next thing, so expect to see them trying to worm their way into this latest Groundswell tantrum.
     • PsyclingLeft.Always 3.2.1

       15 October 2022 at 10:44 am

       For sure. Hitchin' their anti: Guvmint/Maori/Three Waters/5G/Vaccination/U.N./etc etc; wagons to the flash tractors.

       And yea re "the "list of approved messages for participants" thats only a fob…IMO it'll be full on for sure. Hopefully they are seen for what they are.
4. PsyclingLeft.Always 4

   15 October 2022 at 8:25 am

   The King…….Ah MAYOR , Wayne Brown,stymied.

   One of Auckland mayor Wayne Brown's resignation targets has pushed back, telling staff of the council development arm Eke Panuku that any call for change will have to come from the full council.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/476664/auckland-council-chairman-pushes-back-on-mayor-wayne-brown-s-call-for-him-to-quit

   Awesome. Nothing better than bullies getting…pushback : )

   Wonder if Ol' Wayne has any urinal pictures planned for him?

   I'm sure Wayne will be….fuming.
   • Ad 4.1

     15 October 2022 at 9:04 am

     He will use this interregnum moment to the full until the committee structure is formed
     • PsyclingLeft.Always 4.1.1

       15 October 2022 at 9:12 am

       Thats the way of these bullies. Hopefully all those being "pressured" to resign (and DON'T want to) can get the support they need to hang in there. Council's, along with ALL NZ workplaces have anti bully systems set in law. Sadly never much adhered to….BUT. Still there to be used.
       • tinderdry6 4.1.1.1

         15 October 2022 at 9:29 am

         The Chair of Panuku is himself a bully, who has wielded his power over iwi and other groups for too long. The entire Board of Panuku is under investigation for conflicts of interest. Brown is taking on powerful corporate interests and not before time.
         • PsyclingLeft.Always 4.1.1.1.1

           15 October 2022 at 10:17 am

           lol.
         • aj 4.1.1.1.2

           15 October 2022 at 11:03 am

           I support what Eke Panuku is doing. Strong Towns.

           "The chair countered Brown's line that the agency was a "property developer".

           "The nature of urban regeneration, as opposed to property development, is to invest in the future of Tāmaki Makaurau which is why we have a Wynyard Quarter and emerging centres such as Northcote, Avondale, Takapuna, Panmure and Manukau," he said.

           "The creation of thriving town centres and support for the Council group has never been more important following the ongoing impacts of the Covid years," he said."
           • Belladonna 4.1.1.1.2.1

             15 October 2022 at 1:47 pm

             Anyone who thinks that either Takapuna or Northcote are 'thriving town centres' is invited to visit them. Apart from the large number of restaurants in Takapuna (anecdotally, hearing that many of them are struggling), business is dire. Central Northcote is one massive building site – as high-rise apartment buildings are constructed all around the existing scruffy town centre (plans for revitalizing this are still on the drawing board – and may never eventuate with a different council with different priorities).

             No doubt people who are familiar with the other Auckland suburbs quoted can comment on the truthfulness of that remark, where they are concerned.
       • Ad 4.1.1.2

         15 October 2022 at 10:07 am

         Most smart politicians do.
5. arkie 5

   15 October 2022 at 9:51 am

   The Government has a published a consultation document: Te tātai utu o ngā tukunga ahuwhenua Pricing agricultural emissions.

   The opportunity to make submissions on this proposal runs until 18 November.

   It's important that we have our say, but if the depth of the submission process intimidates the Greens have a guide:

   The Government wants feedback on its proposal to:

   • Price emissions at the farm-level from 2025, with a levy on methane output. The levy price would be set by Cabinet, informed by the advice of the Climate Change Commission
   • If the farm-level levy is not operational in time for 2025, use an interim processor-level levy for likely no more than two years

   The Government also wants public views on some aspects of emissions pricing, including:

   • Whether it should investigate tradable methane quotas, where the market would be determined by the total amount of pollution permitted each year (the preferred option of Minister for Climate Change, James Shaw)
   • Whether nitrogen fertiliser should be part of the ETS, or covered by the levy system
   • How to account for on-farm sequestration within a system for pricing agricultural emissions
   • How it can best protect the interests of iwi, hapū and Māori, and honour Te Tiriti o Waitangi, during the development of agricultural emissions pricing

   https://action.greens.org.nz/submission_guide_he_waka_eke_noa
   • Descendant Of Smith 5.1

     15 October 2022 at 10:27 am

     I really don't get why we have a capitalist solution i.e. trading schemes to solve what essentially is market failure to protect our environment.

     Regulation to simply restrict seems much more sensible and straight forward.

     Limit the areas you can dairy in, reduce the herd sizes, set maximum herd sizes per land area linked to land quality, reduce irrigation required to make dairying viable in previously non dairying areas and so on. Imagine if we had taken such an approach to abolishing slavery. For every slave you have you can employ someone else to offset them. Yep that would work.
     • arkie 5.1.1

       15 October 2022 at 10:39 am

       I really don't get why we have a capitalist solution i.e. trading schemes to solve what essentially is market failure to protect our environment.

       Because of the Labour party. In 2014 the Greens campaigned on phasing out the ETS for a carbon tax:

       Labour, the Greens' prospective coalition partner, introduced emissions trading in the first place, and its finance spokesperson David Parker wants the scheme retained.

       "We're happy to consider (the Green Party's) alternative but we do note we favour an Emissions Trading Scheme as opposed to a carbon tax."

       https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/246114/greens-sticking-with-carbon-tax-policy

       Since Labour remain adhered to the 'market-based' solutions the Greens have to push them to make that market system as effective as is possible. I'm sure your comment would be an appropriate general comment in a submission.
6. joe90 6

   15 October 2022 at 10:07 am

   Best comedy ever.

   #RIPRobbieColtrane
   • weka 6.1

     15 October 2022 at 7:57 pm

     very good.

     I hope it’s OK to spout memories: I used to ride with Robbie Coltrane between Manchester and London in his sort-of-restored MGA. I’d roll him cigarettes while he discoursed on the ways of the world, and I don’t think I’ve ever laughed or learned so much in my life.

     — Hugh Laurie (@hughlaurie) October 14, 2022
     • Anker 6.1.1

       15 October 2022 at 8:15 pm

       https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/trans-activist-trolls-target-robbie-28243779

       TRA's troll Robbie Coltrane after his tragic death because he supported J K Rowling.

       Not nice people
7. higherstandard 7

   15 October 2022 at 10:20 am

   Some woke nonsense for a Saturday morning.

   New Zealand’s arts council has pulled funding for a Shakespeare festival that has been running in secondary schools for roughly three decades, after questioning its relevance to the country and because it focuses on “a canon of imperialism”.

   https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/14/new-zealand-pulls-funding-for-school-sheilah-winn-shakespeare-festival-citing-canon-of-imperialism
   • joe90 7.1

     15 October 2022 at 10:47 am

     Dog forbid they should have to apply to a different funding programme.

     The rejection letter said the centre would be able to apply for funding under Creative NZ’s annual arts grants programme, and it may “do better financially” under that scheme.

     https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/arts/129904808/to-fund-or-not-to-fund-shakespeare-centres-funding-axed-by-creative-nz
     • Anker 7.1.1

       15 October 2022 at 8:20 pm

       Yes Joe 90, but it was the reason for cutting the funding. Shakespeare's genre is apparently located in a "canon of imperialism". FFS. Politicizing the greatest playright of all times. Someone who wrote so very meaningfully about human nature. The irony.

       Also there is nothing to say applying to another branch of Creative NZ will be successful.

       They are making NZ look like a cultural backwater.
   • Descendant Of Smith 7.2

     15 October 2022 at 10:49 am

     It has not been funded because it is competing against other requests for funding and has this time missed out.

     Is there an expectation it gets funded forever and others miss out? The overall context is missing – how many applications were received, what was the oversubscription, what actually did get funded? Do we expect that their is competition for limited funding or the same organisations get funded every year?

     There is a good point in the commentary.

     “Wouldn’t it be great if young people could come home and say, ‘Hey, Mum, Dad, I just found this story and it’s really similar to Hinemoa and Tūtānekai. It’s Romeo and Juliet’.”

     I love Shakespeare and think it should continue to be taught in schools but don't believe it has any right to be so taught – any more than while I love the education I got at school on the Edwardian era or WWII or on asplenium ferns or The Bluebird of Happiness has any right to continue.

     Management-speak and over justifying is a problem in this country – just say that the requests for funding were oversubscribed and you missed out. Adding gobbledy-gook to the explanation leads to this sort of nonsense.

     I'm much more interested in what was funded instead of. Might be some really cool innovative stuff in there.
   • Incognito 7.3

     15 October 2022 at 11:34 am

     Some woke nonsense for a Saturday morning.

     So, you found old news from a month ago in an overseas rag that set off your woke detector and decided to be outraged. Clearly, you haven’t studied Shakespeare enough:

     To be outraged, or not to be outraged, that’s no question
     • higherstandard 7.3.1

       15 October 2022 at 11:57 am

       You must've missed the bit a couple of the members of the arts council commented that the organisation was “quite paternalistic” and that the genre was “located within a canon of imperialism and missed the opportunity to create a living curriculum and show relevance”.

       One assessor said the application made them “question whether a singular focus on an Elizabethan playwright is most relevant for a decolonising Aotearoa in the 2020s and beyond”.

       Frankly whenever I read such trite nonsense I'm left with the impression that the people populating these public funded councils are a pack if asshats.
       • Incognito 7.3.1.1

         15 October 2022 at 12:23 pm

         Once the smoke in front of your eyes has cleared and the brain fog has lifted, you could have a quick look at how grant applications are assessed:

         Your application is assessed by external peer assessors using the following criteria. [my italics]

         https://creativenz.govt.nz/Funds-and-opportunities/Find-opportunities/Arts-Grants#how-applications-are-assessed

         I know how much it grates when your application is turned down and you received feedback that contains irksome comments. Most if not all Public Good funders have a complaint process; constructive criticism is generally welcomed with positive response.

         https://creativenz.govt.nz/About-Creative-NZ/Making-a-complaint

         According to data released in August, Creative NZ received a total of 13 complaints in the 2021/22 year, one of which was upheld. Two complaints were upheld in the 2020/21 year, and none were upheld in 2019/20.

         From the link in joe90’s comment @ 7.1.
         • Anker 7.3.1.1.1

           15 October 2022 at 8:30 pm

           https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/top-auckland-uni-english-professor-slams-move-to-defund-shakespeare-festival/XUVOXKLOKEB6BG5IFKNANXY4EQ/?c_id=1&objectid=12558920

           Top Ak University Professor of English slams Creative NZ's Shakespeare decision. And apparently criticism from abroad too. Embarrasing.

           Actually its not that some groups that apply for funding are turned down, that is all part of the process. Its the embarrasing rationale for cutting the funding. I mean the canon of imperialism? FFS
           • Stuart Munro 7.3.1.1.1.1

             16 October 2022 at 6:47 pm

             A Stuff reporter (no doubt with a grant application in the offing) is celebrating the decision.

             I guess they all think they're more insightful than Kurosawa. Casuals.
             • Anker …

               16 October 2022 at 7:27 pm

               Argh Stuff. The Wolsey of the woke
8. Stephen D 8

   15 October 2022 at 10:36 am

   Is it just coincidence that geopolitically we have two major actors trying to replicate the past?

   Putin wants to rebuild the Russian empire and be tsar.

   Xi in China seems to be wanting to rebuild the hierarchy to the days of the Emperor. Total control over every aspect of life handed down from the court.

   In both cases control over the local population is relatively easy as neither have a history of any form of democratic governance.

   Western society may well just have to watch this play out internally. And use the rules based order to mitigate the worst effects on neighbours.

   Which is what we are doing.
9. joe90 9

   15 October 2022 at 10:56 am

   So much whining..

   Former President Donald Trump is calling on the Pulitzer Prize Board to revoke prizes awarded to the New York Times and Washington Post in 2018 for their coverage of the Russia investigation, threatening legal action if they do not comply.

   In a letter to Pulitzer administrator Marjorie Miller, Trump noted that he twice previously made the request, stating that the reporting on the years-long probe was based on false information.

   "There is no dispute that the Pulitzer Board's award to those media outlets was based on false and fabricated information that they published," the former president said. "The continuing publication and recognition of the prizes on the Board's website is a distortion of fact and a personal defamation that will result in the filing of litigation if the Board cannot be persuaded to do the right thing on its own."

   https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-threatens-pulitzer-committee-legal-action-russia-probe-coverage
10. joe90 10

    15 October 2022 at 11:23 am

    AP report on fascists doing what fascists always do; abducting kids, sending them to Russia or Russian-held territories, telling them they weren’t wanted by their parents and giving them to Russian families.

    Disgusting.

    Thousands of children have been found in the basements of war-torn cities like Mariupol and at orphanages in the Russian-backed separatist territories of Donbas. They include those whose parents were killed by Russian shelling as well as others in institutions or with foster families, known as “children of the state.”

    […]

    The investigation is the most extensive to date on the grab of Ukrainian children, and the first to follow the process all the way to those already growing up in Russia. The AP drew from dozens of interviews with parents, children and officials in both Ukraine and Russia; emails and letters; Russian documents and Russian state media.

    https://apnews.com/article/ukrainian-children-russia-7493cb22c9086c6293c1ac7986d85ef6?
11. joe90 11

    15 October 2022 at 1:52 pm

    Kazakhstan told him to jam it. Nek minit….

    Tajikistan's president demands respect from Russian President Vladimir Putin in a remarkable outburst at Central Asia-Russia summit in Astana pic.twitter.com/dKyHrk5EPi

    — Peter Leonard (@Peter__Leonard) October 14, 2022
    • Francesca 11.1

      15 October 2022 at 4:02 pm

      3 million Tajiks living and working in Russia because conditions are so much better than their home country may have a different take
      • Joe90 11.1.1

        15 October 2022 at 6:03 pm

        Poots' mana has slipped. He looks weaker and it's like blood in the water.
12. roy cartland 12

    15 October 2022 at 2:18 pm

    Here's one for Shanreagh and Swordfish.

    Henry Cooke writes in the Guardian:

    Both top tax brackets raise little actual revenue in the wider scheme of things, as they have been set so high as to capture only a small slice of the population who can comfortably be described as “rich” without anyone raising their heckles. (my emph.)

    Now is he making a rather straightforward pun or a cryptic gag at the NZ accent's expense? Because as we all know, the G woudn't allow such a malapropism to pass without some deeper reason.

    Sorry to ruin your weekends.
    • Shanreagh 12.1

      15 October 2022 at 6:44 pm

      I am not sure why this has been directed at me….but here goes…..

      I don't think he is being clever or punny. I do think he is ungrammatical or not using the phrase as it is used normally used and I cannot make sense of what he is trying to say. Some writers have trouble with the passive voice, and with using commonplace phrases, he has struggled with he/she/their.

      It would make more sense quite apart from the heckles/hackles mistake if he used the phrase in its normal way.

      without anyone raising their heckles.

      without raising anyone's hackles Correct.

      'or cause someone or some people to be upset ' MerriamWebster Dictionary

      And I don't agree with his premise. I think if we taxed the higher rates more then we could lower the rates for those on lower incomes. Any kind of extra income given to those on lower incomes allows a better lifestyle. It also stimulates the economy as it is often spent. Any kind of extra income given to those on higher incomes often leads to more being spent on trips overseas where someone else's economy benefits etc.

      I saw someone describing ‘a shot across the boughs’ recently which had me thinking of people firing into trees…..why?
      • SPC 12.1.1

        15 October 2022 at 7:46 pm

        It might just be a pun on hackles and heckles, because of the heckling of the government since.
        • Roy Cartland 12.1.1.1

          15 October 2022 at 10:34 pm

          Come on now. He didn't know the phrase and the G missed it. No pun, no irony. Makes one pissed.
    • Patricia Bremner 12.2

      15 October 2022 at 7:06 pm

      Lovely… LOL
13. Incognito 13

    15 October 2022 at 2:30 pm

    4/2 for Future West, congratulations MickySavage!

    Things were tight in Waitākere.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/476727/final-auckland-council-election-results-released
    • Ad 13.1

      15 October 2022 at 2:49 pm

      Mark Allen you tinny bastard. Nice.
      • Incognito 13.1.1

        15 October 2022 at 3:00 pm

        He was also the only candidate for the ward of the Waitākere Licensing Trust and was elected unopposed. Cosy little job, that is.
        • Ad 13.1.1.1

          15 October 2022 at 7:08 pm

          The Waitakere Licensing Trust is a useful foray into governance experience of a really large local asset. Mark is on the Green side of the Labour-Green ticket, and was previously Council staff, and also runs a welfare organisation on the North Shore. He will be a good fit for the Trusts.

          Sometimes the determinant in politics is: who shows up. Mark did.
          • Incognito 13.1.1.1.1

            15 October 2022 at 7:19 pm

            It was no reflection on Mark but one on the Trusts, which I have mixed feelings about. I think he’ll do a better than average job, which is a rare bonus nowadays. Genuine political engagement seems to be on a downward slide on all levels but particularly on the so-called lower ones 🙁
        • Sacha 13.1.1.2

          16 October 2022 at 12:53 am

          I noticed a few of the reform candidates made it onto the Trusts. How is the dynamic looking now?
          • Incognito 13.1.1.2.1

            16 October 2022 at 6:18 pm

            I assume that you’re referring to the successful candidates of the Trusts Action Group; they have doubled their elected members to 4 in this election.
            • Sacha 13.1.1.2.1.1

              17 October 2022 at 2:15 pm

              Ta. Is that enough to make any difference to direction?
14. X Socialist 14

    15 October 2022 at 7:58 pm

    Talking of things British. This take on the real Winston Churchill, and the cult of Churchill, by Tariq Ali, is apt. Of course Ali being coloured, and some of his hypocrisy's must be taken into consideration. But for the most part he nails it. Churchill was probably one of the most reviled men of his times. I could never understand why he was so lauded in the colonies. At least that's the impression I have. It's funny how Churchill’s blatant racism is condemned nowdays. And even decades before. But modern racism is acceptable by all except that perpetrated by white men.
    • Drowsy M. Kram 14.1

      16 October 2022 at 12:46 pm

      I could never understand why he [Winston Churchill] was so lauded in the colonies. At least that's the impression I have.

      Lauded more by some Gnat MPs than by the Greens.

      The issues that matter? Churchill controversy paints politicians as petty [12 Aug 2021]

      "What is the use of living, if it not be to strive for noble causes and to make this muddled world a better place for those who will live in it after we are gone?” – Sir Winston Churchill

      Empty words? Maybe, but laudable empty words nevertheless, spoken by a man of his time who was no less complex than me and thee.

      “The world is messy. There are ambiguities. People who do really good stuff have flaws.” – Obama
      https://www.churchilltrust.com.au/churchill-essay-by-lainie-anderson/
      • X Socialist 14.1.1

        16 October 2022 at 3:12 pm

        Thanks for the reminder. I had completely forgot about the parliamentary portrait incident.

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