Open mike 15/11/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 15th, 2022 - 46 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

46 comments on “Open mike 15/11/2022 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. arkie 1
    15 November 2022 at 8:25 am

    Regarding climate change adaptation, one of the ways we can all contribute individually and as a country, is to reemphasise the importance of repair and goods that can last enough to be repaired. Organisations like this are a fantastic source of knowledge, skills and community:

    In a world of fast fashion, cheap appliances and quick-to-outdate electronics, a group of repairers is urging people to think twice before tossing things into the landfill.

    Repair cafes are an international phenomenon that began in the Netherlands in 2009, and were first set up in New Zealand in 2016. The current edition has ramped up since the pandemic, supported by Doughnut Economics Advocates New Zealand.

    Charging nothing but with a koha encouraged, the volunteer repairers do their best to fix all sorts, saving people money, and a trip to the dump.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/478745/repair-cafe-volunteer-says-bring-in-your-stuff-and-give-it-a-second-life

  2. Jenny are we there yet 2
    15 November 2022 at 8:54 am

    What do people think about this?

    We grow crops to make air travel sustainable.

    The next airline industry solution to air travel pollution. (after offsets)

    Making Air Travel More Sustainable Is Actually Way Easier Than We Think

    Tony Ho Tran – 2h ago

    …..One estimate from The Guardian found that taking a long-haul flight generates more carbon emissions than a single person would create in an entire year.

    ……we can drastically cut carbon emissions in airplanes by replacing conventional jet fuel with biofuels….

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/making-air-travel-more-sustainable-is-actually-way-easier-than-we-think/ar-AA1465oI

    What if, instead of unworkable scams, we tax air lines for the full cost of their carbon emissions making air travel so expensive that we have to forgo air travel and take the train instead.

    • Sabine 2.1
      15 November 2022 at 9:11 am

      What train would you take to get to OZ or Singapore, or the US / Europe for that matter? The underwater train?

      • Jenny are we there yet 2.1.1
        15 November 2022 at 2:23 pm

        Following Greta Thunberg's example. I have sworn off flying. I will not be going to OZ or Singapore, or the US / Europe anytime soon.

        For travel between cities I will be boarding an intercity road bus rather than an Airbus A320

        Howsabout you Sabine, bus or plane to Wellington?

        • Belladonna 2.1.1.1
          15 November 2022 at 4:47 pm

          Two significant elements to that pledge not to travel internationally.

          Did you previously (i.e. pre-pandemic) regularly take either business or holiday trips overseas?

          Do you have any reason now (during and/or post-pandemic) to travel internationally? (e.g. family or friends overseas; business requirements to travel; bucket list of things that you want to do with your life, etc.).

          Because, it's really easy to notionally 'give up' something that you actually have no intention of doing.

          • Jenny are we there yet 2.1.1.1.1
            16 November 2022 at 6:18 am

            Not regularly. But yes, I have had reason, and still do occasionally have reason to travel internationally.

            So it is a hardship for me to give it up.

            But putting the question of international travel to the side for a moment, I do have a much more pressing need to travel nationally, and it is a sacrifice for me to forego air travel. (which I enjoy for its convenience and comfort).

            How about you, do you travel within New Zealand?

            When there are other options for national travel, do you choose to fly?

            • Belladonna 2.1.1.1.1.1
              16 November 2022 at 5:11 pm

              Not travelling much at all, anywhere, ATM.

              Rarely travel by air in NZ – and usually, only for work (when they would rather pay my airfare, than pay for me to travel for a day (or most of a day), and then do the work. i.e. my boss would prefer not to pay for 3 days, out of town, only one of which is productive; and rather chooses to pay for 1 day of productive work and 2 airfares.

              However, I don't travel by inter-city bus or train either – I pretty much drive.
              Reasons: more than one person travelling; Covid contagion concerns (that may be emotional, rather than logical); poor PT links at the 'other' end of the travel (so I'd have to hire a car anyway); limited holiday time, which I'd rather spend doing things or seeing people, than stuck on a bus.

              • Jenny are we there yet …
                16 November 2022 at 5:29 pm

                I get it. This country's public transport network is sub-optimal.

                The saying goes:

                'A rich country is not where poor people have a car, but where both rich and poor ride the subway'

                (Read; bus, train, PT generally)

                Unfortunately, in this country if you don't have a drivers license or access to a car you are pretty much a second class citizen.

                • Belladonna …
                  16 November 2022 at 7:59 pm

                  Really the country's PT transport only works for travel to and from the CBD in large cities; or for people who have unlimited time, and very limited budget.

                  I don't know if that's a 'fixable' problem. Yes, we can all quote overseas cities where PT works (I've lived in some of them, and never felt the need to own a car). Unfortunately, those cities are outweighed – even in their own countries – but the village and rural areas – where you need a car (unless you want to be trapped at the mercy of a very limited bus link).

                  https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35491464

    • Stuart Munro 2.2
      15 November 2022 at 9:43 am

      A great deal of air travel is discretionary – Zoom, though imperfect, ought to be the first choice over flying in in person.

      Air freight, the hidden reason for subsidizing Air New Zealand (a lot of exports use it) could be developed using unmanned lighter than air drones. The Zeppelin trip to Oz would use far less carbon, and still be well within the freshness lifetime of meat or seafood.

      Our neglected shipping industry would have been good about now too. Although Maersk's entry is better than nothing, they don't seem to be about to generate disruptive change that will favour the environment.

  3. Adrian 3
    15 November 2022 at 10:13 am

    Physics would prove that a airship, because it takes longer with a lighter payload would use almost the same amount of fuel per tonne carried as an aircraft. The old work/energy conundrum, and then add in a good stiff headwind. There are bugger all easy answers in the real world and there are good reasons why they have never been more than a novelty.

  4. Jenny are we there yet 4
    15 November 2022 at 10:48 am

    15,000 demonstrators detained for taking part in the recent protests in Iran against the regime, are being held in police detention.

    In shocking move, the Iranian government has overwhelmingly voted they all be executed.

    …….Women have led the protests, setting their headscarves on fire and cutting their hair in solidarity, and were later joined by men and teenage boys. Hundreds of people protesting Amin's death were killed by police, and thousands were arrested in the past eight weeks.

    There have been previous mass protests in Iran, but none of the size—and the length—of the current one. Back in 2009, millions took to the streets after a disputed presidential election.

    Solidarity for the protesters is also growing, with Reuters reporting that Iran's water polo players refused to sing the national anthem at a competition in Thailand on Tuesday and prominent actor Taraneh Alidoosti expressed her support for the protests by posting a photo of herself with her hair uncovered by the mandatory headscarf.

    https://www.newsweek.com/iran-protesters-refuse-back-down-15000-face-execution-1758578

    It will be a test of wills whether the regime will be able to carry out this dreadful death sentence, or the whether the protests will grow be an even larger challenge to the regime, causing the regime's enforcers to lose their nerve to carry out this mass execution.

    He Tangata, He Tangata, He Tangata.

    • Patricia Bremner 4.1
      15 November 2022 at 11:59 am

      crying Kia Kaha.

    • alwyn 4.2
      15 November 2022 at 3:44 pm

      That story claims that the Parliament called for them to be executed. In para 3 it says "the country's parliament overwhelmingly voted in favor of the death penalty for protesters.".

      However a little further on it greatly mutes the claim when it says "to treat those, …. in a way that would serve as a good lesson in the shortest possible time," the letter read. Lawmakers added that such a punishment – the methods of which were not specified……"

      Where does the story give any evidence that they were calling for all 15,000 to be executed?

      • Jenny are we there yet 4.2.1
        16 November 2022 at 7:01 am

        The Iranian parliament has voted for the death penalty for people convicted of protesting against the regime.

        https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/iran-votes-to-execute-protesters-says-rebels-need-hard-lesson/ar-AA13SNuc

        There are currently 15,000 people convicted of protesting being held in prisons in Iran.

        The logistics of installing the needed apparatus and related procedures to execute that many people on this scale will take some time. Decisions will have to be made over burying or releasing the bodies to their relatives.

        More likely, these executions will be carried out piecemeal.

        A start has been made.

        …….27 year old Kurdish Rapper Saman Yasin has been sentenced to death for joining the anti-hijab protests. The first among the detainees.

        https://in.mashable.com/culture/41792/iran-issues-mass-execution-of-15000-detained-anti-hijab-protestors-sophie-turner-and-others-express

        • alwyn 4.2.1.1
          16 November 2022 at 9:29 am

          Thank you. This story is a bit later than the other one you linked to which was about the letter and does confirm the death sentences explicitly.

          Bastards aren't they? Still they have form for this. In 1988, under orders from Khomeini there were an estimated 30,000 people murdered in a couple of months.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_executions_of_Iranian_political_prisoners#Estimates_of_the_number_of_fatalities

          • Jenny are we there yet 4.2.1.1.1
            16 November 2022 at 11:16 am

            Thank you.

            Your point is well taken. The vast majority of Iran's parliament signed a letter demanding the death penalty for protesters. No formal legislation was enacted.
            As the majority of MPs support the death penalty for the protesters in their custody it would be a foregone conclusion if it had been.
            Instead Iranian lawmakers informally called on the judiciary and machinery of state to impose and carry out this death sentence on protesters.

            There is a historic parallel. The Holocaust was never formally ordered in German parliament either. But needless to say it was carried out anyway.

            There is a certain logic to this, as Bob Dylan wrote "The executioners hand is always well hidden".

            No one wants to be formally recorded as having voted for genocide. And so the chain of command is always kept murky. Going down the ranks, the prison guards who actually have to carry out these executions can point out that they were following the orders from above. But try and follow that order back up the chain of command and it becomes very hard to find anyone who actually gave the order.

            P.S. The closest historians have ever been able to come in identifying who actually ordered the Holocaust, was the secret Nazi leaders Wansee conference of 1942.
            But in 1942 the Holocaust was already in full swing especially in the East. Wansee delegates mostly discussed how to more efficiently conduct this mass murder.

      • Jenny are we there yet 4.2.2
        16 November 2022 at 7:17 am

        Despite this terrible order, and the first of these death sentences against detainees about to be be carried out, the protests have intensified.

        Iran Protesters Refuse to Back Down as First Execution Sentence Handed Down

        BY GIULIA CARBONARO

        …..On November 13, an unidentified protester received the death penalty in the first instance of that sentence coming in the trials against people who were arrested for demonstrating….

        ……Iran Human Rights warned that "at least 20 protesters are currently facing charges punishable by death per official reports"….

        https://www.newsweek.com/iran-protesters-refuse-back-down-15000-face-execution-1758578

  5. X Socialist 5
    15 November 2022 at 11:26 am

    Aotearoa 2022.

    A salute to brave people.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300739233/four-teenagers-one-adult-charged-after-jewellery-store-heist-in-central-auckland

    In my opinion, it won't be long before the public form groups of vigilantes.

    Labour has received much odium over law and order issues. And rightly so. But what's National going to do? Will the crims care? Or will they see things as just one set muppets being replaced with another set of muppets? indecision

    • bwaghorn 5.1
      15 November 2022 at 11:38 am

      Your as thick as the am show tv host .

      Labour isn't doing anything blah blah blah.

      They got arrested dummy.

      • X Socialist 5.1.1
        15 November 2022 at 12:13 pm

        ''They got arrested”

        Well, no shit Sherlock. Case closed. Lets all move on. Everything is kapai.

      • Jimmy 5.1.2
        15 November 2022 at 1:05 pm

        They got arrested. Good. Now lets get a decent judge that doesn't release them so they can do the same again next week.

      • Herodotus 5.1.3
        15 November 2022 at 7:13 pm

        You are a piece of crap – Have you every worked in a place that has experienced such an event ?? You remind me of a physiologist who turned up a week or 2 later the bank that was robbed in the 1990's I was at twice in 2 weeks to tell everyone that such events whilst being traumatic down played the 2 robberies. They were given their marching orders by the manager for the total inappropriateness of their comments.

        What of those who have experienced and faced now with the aftermath – They got arrested, tell that to the workers and others who were there !! You sound like Hipkins removed and just parroting talking points – NO REAL LIFE EXPERIENCE or UNDERSTANDING. There is a major cost/toll being paid that is unseen and not valued.

    • Drowsy M. Kram 5.2
      15 November 2022 at 1:00 pm

      In my opinion, it won't be long before the public form groups of vigilantes.

      In your opinion wink

      I will be pleased if your opinion doesn’t come to pass. How about you?

      • X Socialist 5.2.1
        15 November 2022 at 2:24 pm

        Talk of the devil. I thought I'd listen to Today FM. I haven't listened to them since they sacked Peter Williams(?). The topic being covered was the above heist I posted on. There was talk on vigilantism, bravery, crime in general, should you intervene during a robbery, the alarming rate of officers quitting the force etc? ( Today FM 1.42 PM)

        Mark Mitchell rang in. His talk:

        1- Political support for the police.

        2- Changes in Police hierarchy.

        3- Having other agencies do their share regarding criminal processing. And not having everything dumped on the police.

        4- A look at the justice system.

        5- No quick fixes.

        6- Return of Three Strikes.

        I have no problem with vigilante action. When the police don't act as a criminal deterrent, why shouldn't the innocent fight back as they did in the above case?

        https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/471379/400-percent-increase-in-ram-raids-few-prosecutions-police-data

        • Drowsy M. Kram 5.2.1.1
          15 November 2022 at 4:01 pm

          1- Political support for the police.

          2- Changes in Police hierarchy.

          Maybe that's because Mitchell believes the current "Police hierarchy" doesn't provide the right kind of 'support' for front line police, but "Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia and Darfur" we're not, and never will be.

          I have no problem with vigilante action.

          To repeat my question (@5.2), would you be pleased if vigilante action doesn't become (more) common in Aotearoa New Zealand. Or would you be pleased if vigilantism does became more common?

          Bear in mind that the only countries in which a vigilante’s actions are not illegal are those in which the Rule of Law has fundamentally broken down. Are we getting there, and, if so, why?

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigilantism

          Vigilante groups in the Nordic countries
          Abstract
          One of the main defining characteristics of a state is that it successfully claims the monopoly of the legitimate use of physical force within its territory. Recently, a number of organised groups in the Nordic countries have declared that the state is no longer fulfilling its part of the social contract of providing security to the citizens against crime and threats from foreigners (and Muslims in particular), and in particular their alleged sexual harassment of local women. As a consequence, these vigilante groups challenge the state’s monopoly of violence. “If the State does not defend us, we will do it ourselves – with all necessary means”, the Danish group “Daneværn” puts it. A similar movement, “Soldiers of Odin”, has popped up in Finland, with offshoots in Norway. In Sweden, the neo-Nazi Swedish Resistance Movement is also patrolling to provide safety in the streets, as they claim. The core activists are well-known faces from far-right and anti-Islam movements but some of the groups also attract people with no such ties. This paper will discuss why and how these vigilante groups from the far right have emerged and had a boost recently, and how they are clashing with another form of vigilante group from the extreme left. Militant anti-racists such as Anti-Fascist Action see it as their mission that there will be “No Nazis in our streets!”. They do not obey the state’s monopoly on violence either.

          Taking the law into one’s own hands? On the nature, organization and rationale of vigilantism against Migrants and Minorities in Europe

          We live in peaceful times, in a comparatively peaceful country, and yet the temptation of vengeance and violence is ever-present. Imho, Kiwis need (more?) vigilantes like we need a hole in the head – or a ‘good’ ol’ tarring and feathering.

          https://www.visionofhumanity.org/maps/#/

  6. bwaghorn 6
    15 November 2022 at 11:34 am

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/130412293/12000-hectares-approved-for-sale-to-overseas-investors-for-forestry

    I've never been a single issue voter but will be this election.

    Any party that wants to stop the ridiculous situation of a foreign oil company among other polluters buying our land to plant treed has vote.

    Even if it has to be act.

    • roy cartland 6.1
      15 November 2022 at 1:07 pm

      ACT would obstruct the progress of free trade like that?

      • bwaghorn 6.1.1
        15 November 2022 at 4:16 pm

        No idea what acts opinion on this is ,but labour thus far are all talk,

        • arkie 6.1.1.1
          15 November 2022 at 4:48 pm

          The Greens:

          Foreign investment should benefit Aotearoa New Zealand

          • Only New Zealand citizens and permanent residents should be able to buy land.
          • International businesses with significant local operations should pay fair tax and meet the same corporate responsibility and sustainability standards as local businesses.
          • Foreign investment controls should be tightened to encourage productive investment and discourage speculative investment or simply buying up New Zealand assets to export profits.

          https://www.greens.org.nz/trade_and_foreign_investment_policy

  7. logie97 7
    15 November 2022 at 11:47 am

    Ex military and perfed policemen.

    We hear of (usually after a serious event) that former NZ servicemen or police have been involved as independents (or even as contractors/advisers) in trouble spots around the world. Some have gone in, made a fortune (National's Mark Mitchell as an example) and settled back into life here.

    Do any of these individuals go with the approval of our governments, or is it on their own initiatives. And further, do they pose a threat to our own independent foreign policy if and when they need bailing out.

  8. arkie 8
    15 November 2022 at 1:08 pm

    Auckland Action Against Poverty have a petition directed to the Prime Minister and Minister for Child Poverty Reduction Jacinda Ardern, and Minister for Social Development and Employment Carmel Sepuloni:

    Take seven steps toward a fairer future for all of us

    People in Aotearoa want to see a fairer future where everyone has the resources they need to build the lives they want for themselves and their families. We’re calling on you to take these seven steps to unlock people and whānau from the constraints of poverty:

    1. Increase core benefit levels to the standard of liveable incomes
    2. Raise the minimum wage to the living wage
    3. Increase the Disability Allowance
    4. Overhaul relationship rules
    5. Remove sanctions
    6. Wipe debt owed to the Ministry of Social Development
    7. Improve supplementary assistance and urgent grants

    https://our.actionstation.org.nz/petitions/take-seven-steps-toward-a-fairer-future-for-all-of-us-1

    Please sign to put pressure on the Government to take more action to address poverty and inequality.

  9. Poission 9
    15 November 2022 at 2:41 pm

    Covid cases rise topping 4000 highest daily rate since August.Population reduction program continues with excess mortality rising to 15% (similar to Australia at 14%)

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/478769/daily-covid-19-cases-top-4000-for-first-time-since-august

    https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-mortality-p-scores-average-baseline?country=NZL~AUS

    Covid minister mumbling as usual,although 77 m of the covid contingency fund has been sent to Mahuta for training for 3 waters governance.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018866028/government-says-no-plans-at-this-stage-for-annual-covid-19-booster-for-most-people

    • satty 9.1
      15 November 2022 at 3:15 pm

      It was very quiet around COVID recently, so I checked on the FT Covid tracker over the weekend. Surprised no real actions have been taken and we even allow cruise ship with significant COVID cases to unload and roam the cities without any precautions (same as Australia). What we do for a couple of dollars from the tourists using the cable car…

      We were so keen to save all those lives and now we just "let it rip".

  10. SPC 10
    15 November 2022 at 3:51 pm

    Media has been spared a war with the Governor of Arizona.

    Kari Lake resented having to read the news about Trump's election defeat. She said she would war on media if she was elected. Media have been reporting that peace has been preserved.

    The defeated candidate's resume says – decades working in media, failed political career. Since Fox has abandoned Trump her options are Truth Social and being sponsored by Thiel to do podcasts on Rumble.