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Open mike 15/07/2011

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 15th, 2011 - 71 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

71 comments on “Open mike 15/07/2011 ”

  1. Jenny 1


    YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

    Coal Kills!

    Kill Coal!

    “We shall fight them on the beaches…. We shall never surrender”

    Winston Churchill

    In our hour of need…..

    Why haven’t we got a Climate Winston Churchill?

    • Draco T Bastard 1.1

      Quoting linked article:

      ACT candidate and agriculture spokesman Don Nicolson said communities needed to make themselves resilient against the variety of problems natural variations in climate could bring. “No-one can give me conclusive proof that mankind is actually having an effect on the weather.”

      And no one will you moron but when the probability of it being so is 95% or better I’d say that it’s beyond reasonable doubt.

      • vto 1.1.1

        Ha ha, stupid Don Nicolson sounds like fool Key and his Hardtalk “scientists only offer opinions, they are just like lawyers” idiocy.

        Here is a statement of similar usefulness..

        “No-one can give me conclusive proof that the sun is in fact real.”

        Don Nicolson is a shallow moron, as you so eloquently put it DtB. Just like Key. Shallow shallow shallow.

        You watch, Nicolson will soon say something so ridiculous you will all fall about in laughter and his credibility will be shot. There is no way on earth that this moron will get through a parliamentary term without such a showing. He is a different same David Garrett. I guarantee it.

  2. rosy 2

    So the USA – a month away from defaulting on trillions of dollars of debt has a AAA rating and Ireland, having made huge progress in reducing it’s debt has had it’s rating downgraded harming future recovery efforts.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/jul/13/ireland-economic-recovery-damaged-downgrade

    “This is a disappointing development and it is completely at odds with the recent views of other rating agencies. Just last week, Fitch & DBRS noted our economy’s return to growth in the first quarter, the progress in reducing our budget deficit and said that there was no reason to alter their views on Ireland at this time,” said a spokesman for the department of finance

    How bizarre.

    • Colonial Viper 2.1

      Bankster Occupation of Europe

      Not really bizarre. Max Keiser on you tube sums it up pretty well.

      These ratings agencies are the same ones which gave AAA ratings on billions worth of toxic investments sold to retirement funds and small time investors. The credit rating agencies were paid to help the big investment banks sell these toxic products by giving them a strong rating.

      Now the credit rating agencies are helping the same big investment banks pick up for cents on the dollar, the sovereign hard assets in these at-risk-of deafult countries by giving them a miserable rating and creating a self fulfiling prophecy.

      And just ask, how are the big investment banks going to pay for all these sovereign hard assets, even at firesale prices?

      Using the bail out money that those bankrupt countries’ governments gave the banks originally.

      It goes like this – in an age of currency debasement and devaluation, the only real financial investment left is in vital hard assets. Euros and USD are becoming increasingly worthless as they are no longer a reliable store of value. Hydrodams, roads and ports are, however.

      By helping to bankrupt countries like Ireland and forcing firesale prices of those public assets, international investors can pick them up for cents in the dollar, but paying for them using the public money that those governments handed to them in the original bail outs.

      It’s genius.

      • vto 2.1.1

        It’s not genius. It is the normal actions of bankers over the centuries. It is the same old trick – lend someone money and when they default pick up the asset.

        It is in fact EXACTLY the same trick that drug dealers play. Get the client hooked and over their head then move in on the assets.

        Bankers and drug dealers play the same game.

        It is the world’s biggest rort playing out as we speak. The protestors are the only ones onto it.

        • Colonial Viper 2.1.1.1

          Well, I thought the smart part was getting governments to pay over the bailout money first, which got the governments into crippling debt, thereafter allowing the banks to swoop in and buy government assets up using the government’s own money.

          But yeah, the general formula is a big rerun.

          So…debt is like the crack cocaine that drug dealers hand out…

  3. Bored 3

    On the subject of CGT…headline in todays Herald Landlord: ‘Nasty tax won’t get a cent of my property gains’.

    Mr Whitburn provides a case study in inequity, avarice, and gambling, nothing less. He has got “wealthy” courtesy of the not clever but quite brave punting on property prices increasing forever, and leveraging his investment to the max. Nothing unusual here, it is standard human behavoir under our current casino regime, Whitburn merely provides a microcosm of what our middle classes have been doing within every bubble, be it property or shares.

    From where I am sitting Whitburn like many others who have leveraged previous bubbles looks to be in a very precarious position. No prudent investor currently will give him another cent to leverage, and when market conditions make cash flow and interest rates problematic it will all become a house of cards. Note Serepeisos.

    The sad thing about Whitburns attitude in the article is not his complaint about the “inequity”, lets face it the rest of us are currently subsidising his tax bill and that really is inequitable. It is his belief that what he is doing is just and fair. Shylock could do no better, but this minor Randian Atlas may end up as the tragic comic hero who loses the lot, then laments he wont ever be lucky enough to pay capital gains taxes.

    • millsy 3.1

      I wonder how often he raises his rent, how he treats his tenants and what the state of his rental properties are?

      I would also like him to front up to the people of Hawera and explain why he is willing to see those people lose their hospital so he can pay less tax.

      • Jilly Bee 3.1.1

        My daughter and son-in-law rent a basic three bedroom house in Ranui and pay a relatively high rental. I did wonder after reading this article whether he just maybe their landlord as he boasted about owing several properties in the West Auckland area, Massey, Ranui etc. The house is nothing to write home about and to my thinking is pretty damp – no insulation as far as I am aware. They had to ask several times to have the bathroom repaired – the floor was rotting under the shower and the waste under the kitchen sink leaked and set up a mouldy smell throughout the area. It is a roof over their heads but they are looking for something better.

    • Deadly_NZ 3.2

      And it looks like as usual he did not read the whole thing.

      “I’ve got all the places in trusts and have no plans to sell,” said the multimillionaire. “I’m getting an income and using that to pay down the debt on my own home. In two years I’ll be debt-free with lovely views of Rangitoto and the Sky Tower.

      I did see it said CGT on trusts, just the thing to deal with these parasites on our economy.

      • Bored 3.2.1

        Had to laugh a little when he was described as a multi millionaire after the article said he had a million in equity, spread on 6 houses and 5 other rental units. Lets speculate on this a little….maybe a total capital value of $5 million…equity now $1 million (20%)…market falls 20% equity 0%, or conversely / concurrently interest rises faster than rents can rise by 2.5% = $100K cash shortfall to come out of equity or earnings (if the bank is prepared to extend)….its all a bit like having the stakes raise in a game of Poker.

      • mik e 3.2.2

        Petricovic comes to mind

  4. logie97 4

    GST off Vegetables.

    Typical response from the RWNJ’s is “…how can we know if the retailers have reduced their prices accordingly?”

    I would have thought that the whole essence of a free market and capitalism would answer that one – Competition FFS! Don’t they trust their own mantra.

    • Colonial Viper 4.1

      Of course, capitalism acts to remove true competition where possible since actual monopolies, effective monopolies, duopolies and shadow cartels are always way way more profitable. They want to move such governmental set ups into the private sector where possible as well.

      In the US, the country of ‘free choice’, they have a free choice of the capitalist Democrats and the capitalist Republicans.

    • higherstandard 4.2

      You’d probably call me a RWNJ………. my typical response to the proposed GST off fruit and veg is twofold.

      1. It will likely lead to a lot of confusion initially, first six months or so which is a minor incovenience.

      2. Fruit and vege prices fluctuate enormously during the year as the seasons change and the removal of GST is pretty much insignificant compared to these fluctuations, if people are ‘scottish’ grocery shoppers like me they’ll go for what’s in season in the first instance.

      PS seen the price of tomatoes at the moment !

      • Ianupnorth 4.2.1

        I think the word you are looking for regarding meanness should be ‘Jewish’ they are well known to hoard money, in fact pro-rata the Scottish are actually one of the most generous charitable societies. The Scottish are known as ‘thrifty’ – thought you would like that seeing as the government has opted to buy trains from the cheapest (thriftiest source) rather than keep jobs for an established staff in Dunedin!

        See http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/sep/08/charitable-giving-country – at least NZ rates highly!

        • Ianupnorth 4.2.1.1

          Also this statement

          ‘As a proportion of their income, the wealthiest people in this country (the UK) give far less than those who are less well-off,’
          And three-fifths of Britain’s biggest donors – those giving more than £100 a month – have incomes of less than £26,000 per year.’

          • prism 4.2.1.1.1

            Wealthy people can adjust their apparent incomes so they appear lower, using company cars, renting a house from a trust or whatever. 26,000 pounds doesn’t sound much, about $60,000 here?

        • IanupN . I thought that old ant -semitic insult racist propogander went out with the death of Hitler. If you believe Jewish people are mean you are a bigoted ignoramous. Most of the charitable organizations in the East End London are run by Yiddish organizations .Like wise most USA charitable organizations are run by Jewish families . Even the Great Met Opera Company is by Jewish families. The biggest percentage of philanthropist’ in the world are overwhelmingly Jewish people .
          The first free hospital ever in the world was completly financed by Barny Barnato Jew.London hospital still standing but now under NHS .
          Our own Jewish Mayor Robbie was know for his generosity . Aotearoa has enough bigots in the ACT party we don’t want them here . Mazel Tov!
          PS . The other old chestnut is that all Jews are rich . Dont get me on that .

        • Vicky32 4.2.1.3

          The Scottish are known as ‘thrifty’

          My (Scottish) Mum used to say “the Scots aren’t mean, they’re careful”… 😀

      • felix 4.2.2

        Yes wtf is up with tomatoes?

        Even for this time of year, wtf.

        • jackal 4.2.2.1

          I guess they’re tied to the price of electricity and gas to heat hothouses. The price of transportation would also determine the cost of imported tomatoes, but not to the degree we’re seeing.

          • freedom 4.2.2.1.1

            even the local discount greengrocer has $8.99 kg. normally $5 this time of year.

            In Wellington last week i was a bit shocked to see $18.99kg at New World, these are tomatoes, not Bluff oysters. (Then again $18.99kg for bluff Oysters would be nice to see)

            • prism 4.2.2.1.1.1

              Small tomato growers using glasshouses in winter may have been forced out of the market by pollution reduction policies. One I know of used to burn coal to raise the temperature but can’t now. Had to close down.

              Also I think the Queensland floods are being cited as the reason that some things have gone up and I guess this would definitely apply to tomatoes from Oz.

          • Lanthanide 4.2.2.1.2

            The floods in Australia at the start of the year wiped out many crops that would become ripe now. Low supply = high prices. Doesn’t have anything to do with transportation or electricity costs.

        • kriswgtn 4.2.2.2

          they b made of gold

      • logie97 4.2.3

        Not sure how this thread disappeared into a discussion about misers but my first assertion was that the open market was supposed to determine the price of everything.

        Surely the retail market has its margin and then adds the 15 %. To say that the price to the shopper will remain the same beggars belief.

        Perhaps it is incumbent on the government to publish a daily (vegetable and growers) wholesale market price (auctions) to determine the price the grocer is buying at.

        I am astonished that people appear to be happy to pay 15% GST anywhere and everywhere. WTF. It’s there so we should pay it?

        What if the government was to load vegetables with a 45 % GST?
        Would the attitude be, well it ain’t gonna make any difference. All grocers will still charge the same price as each other.

        Am I missing something here? Is there not a “market” after all, but simply a massive cartel?

        • Lanthanide 4.2.3.1

          I think the mental disconnect/doublethink is slightly more embedded than what you portray.

          And that’s “prices are seasonal anyway, so if you take 15% off now, once the seasons change the price will go back up anyway”.

          This entirely misses the point that once the seasons change and the prices go up, they’ll still be less (by the rate of GST) than they would have been if GST hadn’t been removed.

        • Colonial Viper 4.2.3.2

          Am I missing something here? Is there not a “market” after all, but simply a massive cartel?

          Yes there certainly is a market, but the market is dominated by a shadow cartel which controls pricing absolutely and which structurally prevents producers from selling their goods directly to the retail customer.

          Go farmers’ markets.

  5. Ianupnorth 5

    Just been told that in the CNI town where I live there have been 5 suicides in two weeks, the second to last a 12 year old girl, the latest a 51 y.o. man.
     
    That is pretty scary; I know there have been a spate in Kawerau of late too. Maybe someone can quote the statistics but seriously this is not a record to be envious of.

    • Colonial Viper 5.1

      Dunno the specifics, just that we have around 50% or more suicides a month than we have road deaths.

    • Ianupnorth 5.2

      And dare I say it, is there statistical evidence to suggest an increase?

    • Vicky32 5.3

      Just been told that in the CNI town where I live there have been 5 suicides in two weeks, the second to last a 12 year old girl, the latest a 51 y.o. man.

      Oh how awful! That’s so sad to hear…

    • millsy 5.4

      A 12 year old girl. 12.

      If 12 year old girls are killing themselves then I think there is something really really wrong with this country.

      • Colonial Viper 5.4.1

        Start talking to anyone who works in an acute psych ward, and it becomes obvious that our society has a lot of deeply rooted issues that we are not talking about or dealing with.

  6. Campbell Larsen 6

    Lookalikes – Rob Muldoon and Rogernomics fan Owen Glenn…

    For a moment there I thought the Nats had resurrected another monster from the past!

  7. jackal 7

    Friday Fun with Photos #9

    The organization of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan provides, and its principle of government demands, that there shall always be one individual, senior in rank to all other Klansmen of whatever rank, on whom shall rest the responsibility of command, and whose leadership will be recognized and accepted by all other loyal Klansmen.

  8. puzzled observer 8

    John Ansell further explains the deficiencies of women:
    http://johnansell.wordpress.com/2011/07/14/3942/

    • Ianupnorth 8.1

      He is really someone for whom drowning would be too good. An obnoxious racist.

    • McFlock 8.2

      Wow.
      Ever get the impression that some of these ACTurds just couldn’t hold their breath for a few more months?

      • rosy 8.2.1

        Is it some kind of perverted symbolic status to be too weird (in a white supremacist kind of way) for Act?

    • Vicky32 8.3

      Wow, just wow.. I am just reading it now, and  Ansell has written a heaping helping of crazy!
      Is he related to Colin King-Ansell by any chance?
       

      • Morrissey 8.3.1

        Is he related to Colin King-Ansell by any chance?

        That’s a very, very good question. King-Ansell was given to making idiotic public statements, and then trying to defend them in a most incoherent manner. In the early 1970s, Brian Edwards interviewed King-Ansell for twenty minutes and reduced him to a distressed, blithering heap of perplexedness.

        Then, to his horror, Edwards was informed by the cameraman that due to an equipment malfunction, the entire interview had been lost. There was only one thing that could possibly be done: shoot the entire thing all over again. Edwards asked King-Ansell if he would mind, and King-Ansell obliged.

        Edwards feared that the element of surprise had been lost, however, and that King-Ansell would not be trapped so easily the second time around. But Edwards asked exactly the same questions again, and King-Ansell blundered into the same traps again, and the whole humiliation was repeated almost identically.

        Sheer, purblind stupidity, in other words. John Ansell seems to be cut from the same cloth. He could even be his son.

        A bit of further investigation might be useful here.

        • Vicky32 8.3.1.1

          I once knew Colin King-Ansell’s ex wife, she was a head-case and no mistake! He was doing his Nazi thing when they married, and as she told me “I’d always wanted to marry a German, and he was the closest I could find”. (All I can say my having been in relationships with 2 Germans over the decades,  is, she didn’t look very hard! 😀 )
           
           

    • prism 8.4

      puzzled observer – Maori set great store in their tribe. John Ansell sets great store in his diatribe. Good eh. And his diatribe goes on and on and on, filled with such intelligent, novel ideas and bon mots?

  9. vto 10

    So.. let me get this straight …

    At the time of near financial collapse during the Global Financial Crisis, our government introduced a Deposit Guarantee Scheme to support the insolvent banks and finance companies. This included the darling South Canterbury Finance.

    That allowed the CEO Lachie McLeod, against all wisdom, to go out and make heaps more unworthy loans and considerably up the related party loans to an hystrerical level, includiong one to himself for about $15million (yes, that right, $15,000,000.00) to buy a stake in South Canterbury Finance. This all made the situation far worse for South Cantebury Finance and consequently far worse for we taxpayers when we had to bail the junk out.

    Then Lachie gets the blame for it all going pear-shaped (which was correct, but one has to wonder what the board were thinking in letting it happen. What they were thinking was ‘lets abandon ship’) so Lachie has to leave.

    So his departure gift is $20million (yes, that’s right $20,000,000.00) signed off by Hubbard alone and without Board approval. The $20,000,000.00 iincludes forgiveness (yes, that’s right f o r g i v e n e s s) of the $15,000,000.00 loan.

    What fucking planet are these gorms on. The South Canterbury Finance mess just keeps getting stinkier. That arrangement must be near criminal in the circumstances.

    I am absolutely gobsmacked.

    So, all you lucky taxpayers out there, when you bailed out Lachie McLeod’s shonky work via the Deposit Guarantee Scheme you also paid off Lachie McLeod’s $15,000,000.00 loan.

    How does that make you feel?

    • grumpy 10.1

      Not good…….we hope there is more to come out of this.

      Where is Karma when you need it?

    • prism 10.2

      Where do I look for those details on SCF vto? I think I want to get it into hard copy, so I understand its real.

      • vto 10.2.1

        Probably a few places mr prism. You could start with the receiver for SCF. Check out the companies office. Then all sorts of countless media articles which may have various sources.

        And yes those numbers are eye-watering.

        Lachie McLeod undoubtedly did a terrible job which led to SCG going bust. And yet he gets a $20,000,000.00 golden handshake??????????? Seriously, how does that work?

        It is a fucking bullshit crock.

        Both he and Hubbard need to stand up and account given we taxpayers paid for that to the tune of $1,500,000,000.00.

    • prism 10.3

      The zeroes are rather dazzling in that piece on SCF. It may have seemed to be a holding move for the CEO to borrow $15m and put that into SCF. When you get into ponzi style finances that could seem quite appropriate! Then when the CEO left, the loan money which had probably gone into the SCF black hole, was written off and he was actually given a $5m redundancy package/

  10. Morrissey 11

    What was that about free speech in “the land of the free”?

    “There’s a culture of silence and fear in the Jewish community against speaking out…”

    Watch the following clip, and bear it in mind next time you hear somebody like Hillary Clinton admonishing some third world country for being totalitarian and undemocratic….

  11. Fine for ‘quite distinct from strictly objective news reporting’ Campbell Live

    Current affairs show Campbell Live, it’s a good thing something like this exists. Close Ups counterpart has been a part of many tv-nights of uninformed populists. But what has now been revealed by Stuff.co.nz? There isn’t always extensive and broad research done for all the items presented. Campbell aired an item about Paper Reclaim in Auckland, alleging their plant was unsanitary and rat-infested. Workers were asking for a 1 dollar raise because of the working conditions and for their hard work and loyalty. Awful, horrible. These people deserve more than that. Oh hold on, let’s first take a look at the evidence presented. Some shots of a heap of rats (not at the plant itself), a cartoon of hundreds of rats (uhm yeah a cartoon) and statements made by the disgruntled employees (very objective). Not very reliable or even acceptable evidence. Of course Paper Reclaim agreed and filed a complaint, stating: ‘Campbell Live had relied on the unsubstantiated claims of a small number of workers and had “over-dramatised a pay dispute, by references to a rodent health problem, when no such problem existed”. TVWorks disagreed, replying: ‘’There was no doubt the item was sympathetic to the workers and presented in a manner that was ‘entertaining and informing’”. A word from the union: ‘acknowledged in a signed joint statement that there was no rat problem’. And lastly the final word comes from the Broadcasting Standards Authority: ‘numerous references to rats, “coupled with sensationalist clips of masses of rats and audio of rats squealing, created the clear impression for viewers that Paper Reclaim had a serious rat problem”’. Result: the show was fined $16,000. A little less sensationalism, a bit more investigative reporting. Oh sorry TVWorks what is that now? “Viewers understand the genre (which is quite distinct from strictly objective news reporting) and would take those ‘entertaining’ elements for what they were”. At least you’re honest.

    http://kiwi-linkwhore-simplexity.wordpress.com/2011/07/15/fine-for-%E2%80%98quite-distinct-from-strictly-objective-news-reporting%E2%80%99-campbell-live/

  12. Adrian 13

    Yeah VTO, somethings not right here. In april 2010 I sold my crop to a company on the agreement that I would get paid when they were sold and processed. In the meantime SCF went under, and the processing company had the recievers ( aka White-Collar-Looters) demand repayment of the loan, even tho no payments had been missed, this happened to about 120 other borrowers I think. When the company said piss off not possible, the Whitecollarlooters virtually took over, stole my 50k ( only income ) and got the company to pay me only $50 a week, this happened to all of the creditors of this company. I believe that this is happening to all of the 120 approx who couldn’t pay back their loans. What stinks is that when Hubbard was sprung he stated that it wouldn’t have happened to him if Key was in the country,(or answering his phone to hubbard). The intimation is that it was Key himself who personally intervened on behalf of Hubbard when against the Treasury warnings the guarantee was renewed FOUR times. I wish I had the resources to make the connection between Key and Hubbard and get the bastard.

  13. Colonial Viper 14

    One in 5 UK households in energy poverty

    Bad to worse…and expected to deteriorate further.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2011/jul/14/households-fuel-poverty-energy-prices

  14. Bovver 15

    Labour introduced the Crown Retail Deposit Guarantee Scheme Bill vto

    • Lanthanide 15.1

      Yes, and National signed SCF up to an extension of the scheme despite knowing, immediately after being elected, that SCF was in serious trouble.

      SCF was also operating in a way that could have had them thrown out of the scheme for failing to comply with the requirements of good governance and transparency. We can’t know for sure if Labour would have kicked them out of the scheme, had they been in power, but we certainly know that National did absolutely nothing.

  15. freedom 16

    cannot decide if this Stuff poll is hilarious or terrifyng.
    72 % think “No – rules and traditions are final”

  16. The Voice of Reason 17

    Rebekah Brooks resigns. Presumably, she’ll be the sacrificial lamb. But James Murdoch will be very, very nervous.

    • Morrissey 17.1

      But James Murdoch will be very, very nervous.

      Surely with the FBI now on the case, James Murdoch and (more importantly) the reptile who generated him several decades ago must now be condidering what the rest of his life will be like—in prison.

  17. Draco T Bastard 18

    Tim Harford: Trial, error and the God complex
    TED Talk about the God Complex that we see from economists and RWNJs.

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