Open Mike 16/01/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, January 16th, 2019 - 114 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

114 comments on “Open Mike 16/01/2019 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Morrissey 1
    16 January 2019 at 7:16 am

    The UK Government Manufacture of False Sexual Allegations
    by CRAIG MURRAY, Jan. 9, 2019

    …. mud sticks, and the smear was used to discredit my evidence on torture and extraordinary rendition, and has been so used ever since.

    Alex Salmond is far more of a threat to the British establishment than I ever was. So is Julian Assange and so is Tommy Sheridan. Anybody who looks at any of these examples, and does not understand that the state will actually fabricate allegations and fabricate evidence to back them, is a fool.

    I know. It happened to me.

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/01/the-uk-government-manufacture-of-false-sexual-allegations/

    • patricia bremner 1.1
      16 January 2019 at 10:55 am

      Yes Morrisey, it is the horrible kind of political expediency.
      Or worse, what happened to a certain reporter in an embassy.
      Governments practice it to degrees. Here we had a unionist killed by a bomb, and in Britain a Kiwi protester went that way under the truncheon of a horseback Bobbie.
      Being discredited pulls political teeth, being sexually discredited by rumour or innuendo removes the chance of being believed.
      Being killed to prevent the truth coming out happens. It depends on the material and the power of the threatened.
      All governments have methods of dealing with opposition, most ok but some not so.

      • Morrissey 1.1.1
        16 January 2019 at 11:43 am

        Thanks for that reminder, patricia. The National government, in concert with the “Defence” chiefs and their usual media accomplices, led a campaign of lies against Jon Stephenson and Nicky Hager. I’m extremely upset with this Labour government bowing to those “Defence” chiefs and covering up the “inquiry” into the SAS raids in Afghanistan.

        It’s also worth remembering that it’s not only Saudi Arabia that holds the concept of “embassy” in contempt: the rogue U.K. regime at one stage considered raiding the Ecuadorian Embassy in London.

    • dv 2.1
      16 January 2019 at 8:07 am

      Be interesting to see if the airline will let them fly. As they could be a danger to the flight?

      And the deportation could come to haunt them when they want to travel again.

    • ianmac 2.2
      16 January 2019 at 8:43 am

      It seems strange that such a group can get away with pretty obnoxious behaviour for so long. “Public Nuisance” if it was you or I behaving badly.

      • Sacha 2.2.1
        16 January 2019 at 9:13 am

        Pale skin may have confused the authorities. I’m impressed they eventually got deported on the spot rather than faffing around with court etc.

        • ianmac 2.2.1.1
          16 January 2019 at 9:37 am

          I think that they have 28 days in which to Appeal. Very appealing I don’t think.

          • Janet 2.2.1.1.1
            16 January 2019 at 9:56 am

            If they are deported ahead of when they were booked to leave the country ? who pays for the airtickets?

            • patricia bremner 2.2.1.1.1.1
              16 January 2019 at 11:05 am

              The Government may have decided it was cheaper to change their tickets than host them further lol.

          • Naki man 2.2.1.1.2
            16 January 2019 at 11:06 am

            No doubt they will claim they are in danger if they return home and Galloway will grant them residency.

            • veutoviper 2.2.1.1.2.1
              16 January 2019 at 11:13 am

              See 2.4 below. Unlikely to go to the Minister of Immigration, but they apparently have decided to cut their holiday short and leave today.

            • te reo putake 2.2.1.1.2.2
              16 January 2019 at 11:19 am

              Thanks for reminding us of last year’s news, Naki Man. I suspect it would be really helpful for these tourists if one of them could enter into a relationship with a National party hack and drip feed titbits to the media over a period of months in an attempt to embarrass the Immigration Minister.

              That worked so well in the Sroubek affair that the Minister was forced to, er, stay on as Minister.

              • Tamati Tautuhi …
                16 January 2019 at 1:17 pm

                We facitious comment TRP that’s the sort of comment you regularly get on Kiwibog.

            • bwaghorn 2.2.1.1.2.3
              16 January 2019 at 4:02 pm

              They should have donated a $100k to the nats and got one of them on to the list .

      • Tamati Tautuhi 2.2.2
        16 January 2019 at 1:15 pm

        Not serious enough offences for the NZ Police to take any action until it got to the media ?

        • patricia bremner 2.2.2.1
          16 January 2019 at 5:13 pm

          One faced court after a night in the cells. The Police acted on a report by a Hamilton business.
          The group were met by Police and had to buy two child restraint seats.
          Why are you saying Police action happened after publication, when clearly events were published after court and police action. Your point was?

      • marty mars 2.3.2
        16 January 2019 at 12:17 pm

        Lol – apparently they’re from Liverpool I heard.

        • The Al1en 2.3.2.1
          16 January 2019 at 1:34 pm

          Apparently they reside in Liverpool and have UK passports, but listening to those vids on the news sites, it’s sounds very much like mrs brown’s boys to me. But who knows?

          I did read a report on stuff (I think) from an ex pad Irish who was doing their best to distance themselves from these tourists, claiming they were likely to be first or second generation traveller imports to England.
          Either way, not the best both nations have to offer from what I’ve seen and read.

          Lucky for them their old fella is the tenth richest man in blighty. He’ll be able to pay all the fines and cost with ease 😆

          • Bewildered 2.3.2.1.1
            16 January 2019 at 2:08 pm

            There Tinkers ( Irish gypsies) ran across a lot of them on my OE, as per Hillary Clinton they truly are deplorables

    • veutoviper 2.4
      16 January 2019 at 11:08 am

      They have not been instantly deported but have been issued with a Deportation Liability Notice, according the Newshub report link below:

      When officers arrived at the scene, immigration officers were with them, ready to serve the tourists with a Deportation Liability Notice (DLN)

      “You have 14 days to appeal to Immigration NZ on why you should remain in New Zealand or 28 to appeal to the Immigration and Protection Tribunal,” they were told.

      Peter Devoy, Assistant General Manager for Immigration New Zealand, told Newshub that Section 157(5) of the Immigration Act 2009 meant temporary visa holders could be issued with a DLN on several grounds, including for matters relating to character.

      Simon Laurent, principal for Laurent Law, told Newshub the section of the Act referring to “other matters relating to character” could be applied if complaints had been raised about the visitors.

      “It’s open door for [Immigration NZ] to say ‘they haven’t been charged with anything but they are undesirables, we think they might have committed offences, they might have been disturbing the peace’ even if they haven’t been taken to court,” said Mr Laurent.

      Temporary visa holders could also be served a notice under a “criminal offending” provision.

      “That means they say that ‘we feel there has been criminal offending, the courts haven’t decided that finally, but we believe this offending has taken place because there is a weight of evidence behind it’ or whatever it might be.”

      If individuals served with a DLN were deported “there would be a prohibition on them coming back into the country, there is a five year ban,” said Mr Laurent.

      “Whenever they apply for a visa for anywhere else, or they try to enter some other country and they’re asked if they have ever been deported, well they’re going to have to say yes, and they could be stopped at the border,” he said.

      Mr Laurent said technically the Minister of Immigration was the individual empowered to deport someone, but decisions of this nature were often delegated out to appropriate level immigration staff.

      https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/01/rowdy-tourists-group-served-deportation-notice-may-be-banned-from-new-zealand-for-5-years.html

      The article also provides more details of damage, aggression etc in both Auckland and Hamilton – just astonishingly bad behaviour.
      ———————–

      Oops – almost missed these details at the end of the article:

      “Another member of the group, David, also denied the travellers were Irish gypsies and were instead English citizens in New Zealand for a two week holiday.

      But those plans now seem to have been cut short, with the group planning to head off on Wednesday.”

      So, if they leave today as now planned, that probably means that they will not have officially been deported and will be free to take their bad behaviour elsewhere in the future. In the meantime, what likelihood of their paying for all the damage etc they have caused?

      ——————-
      Here is a link to a TVNZ article on the group:

      https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/tourists-served-deportation-notices-immigration-new-zealand-after-incident-hamilton-burger-king?variant=tb_v_1

    • veutoviper 2.5
      16 January 2019 at 2:20 pm

      LATEST NEWS on TOURIST GROUP

      RNZ News have reported that the 26 yr old woman from the group arrested in Hamilton has been convicted on two shoplifting charges of stealing $55 worth of goods from a petrol station in Albany, Auckland.

      “She was accused of stealing Red Bull energy drinks, rope and a pair of sunglasses totalling $55 from a Caltex service station in Albany in late December and early January. …

      “She was convicted and ordered to pay reparation in court today, appearing for a second time after the case was stood down pending an application for legal aid.

      “Ms Cash was described in court documents as having no fixed abode.”

      “In sentencing, Community Magistrate Ngaire Marcelle gave Cash credit for her early plea and took into account that she had spent the night in police cells.

      “Ms Marcelle described the night in custody as a significant penalty for a first offence.”

      https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/380201/court-convicts-woman-from-unruly-tourist-group

    • SaveNZ 2.6
      16 January 2019 at 2:51 pm

      While I also think good riddance to the Irish travellers, the mind boggles why some disorderly behaviour managed to get them deported so quickly and the police and immigration involved without even a prosecution, while we have so many criminals living in NZ who break the law and actually destroy other people’s lives with their crimes and they are still here or their crimes un noticed for decades, often even being granted permanent residency? Personally find those that ask $40k for a fake job, import in 40k of crystal meth or give out fake drivers licenses are more dangerous to NZ society than littering and doing a runner on a meal from an obnoxious family.

      • veutoviper 2.6.1
        16 January 2019 at 2:59 pm

        1. They have not been deported but may have left or may be leaving NZ today of their own accord. See 2.4 above.

        2. One of them was prosecuted on two charges of shoplifting today and convicted. See 2.5 above.

        3. It has not been confirmed that they are Irish (travellers, tinkers or not) and it has been reported they are from Liverpool.

        4. Their obnoxious behaviour was far more than “littering and doing a runner on a meal”.

        • Bewildered 2.6.1.1
          16 January 2019 at 3:34 pm

          There Tinkers 100pc

          This not Irish or English to there way of thinking any way

        • SaveNZ 2.6.1.2
          16 January 2019 at 3:35 pm

          If only more visitors and residents could be deported or asked to leave by authorities, after being convicted so promptly and exhibiting antisocial/criminal behaviour, we might have a much nicer society and many less Kiwis in poverty and our prisons not overflowing and shorter times to receive medical attention.

          Just a few high profile migrant criminals that are in jail costing Kiwis hundreds of thousands of dollars who ‘eventually’ got deported or are still here fighting deportation or not deported at all… Sroubek, Joanne Harrison, Ka Kit Yim alias Chris Yim, Virgil Balajadia, Gurpreet Singh, Faroz Ali to name but a few making headlines…

          Maybe if the government were more interested in stopping and protecting and deporting scammers and criminals who were not born here and trying to get permanent residency or citizenship, we might have a better society and not people queuing up at the food banks and living in overcrowded accommodation with so many people who do not deserve to reside in NZ, having the priority rather than the safety and fairness and welfare of those who do.

  3. WeTheBleeple 3
    16 January 2019 at 8:12 am

    Every time someone makes a dollar, speculators arrive to mess things up. It’s the fear of missing out that drives the pile on. It’s ‘competition’ say the business folk who, never thinking always acting, jostle for position on the gravy train; and fuck our ecology again.

    This is the plight of starving bees with newcomers piling on trying to make manuka honey.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12190479

    I have a hive. And to have this hive I have to register said hive. This means there is somewhere a central authority with the numbers of hives in each region. This also means there is someone, somewhere, approving the overstocking of our lands for business interests, again.

    • DJ Ward 3.1
      16 January 2019 at 2:43 pm

      I’ve got an issue with bees. I have hardly seen any this year. Last year there was plenty. Not many wasps, only a few bumblebees, seen no frogs, or tadpoles, few flys.

      Im one of those people who let there lawn go to flower. At one property the lawn was still pretty short but was a near perfect white lawn. To me it was buitifull, but the landlord disagreed. This Christmas the lawn was a mix of white and yellow. But hardly any bees.

      The thing with bees is the don’t know about our on paper boarders. Unlike humans, not even walls stop them. So it’s not possible to ban a person putting bees on land they own, or expect those bees will not come on your land. They may grow a crop that needs bees themselves. The registering system is not an opproval system.

      We could significantly increase bees as a small Buisiness model in NZ, within co-operatives to enable products and high value exports. So registering bees is a good idea. Opposite to overstocking as an intent, it exposes overstocking, it exposes shortages and areas needing investment in small buisinesses in those areas.

      Somebody may have land that grows Manuka and the neighbor brings in bees to take advantage. How do you stop it? I may get honey from my lawn, and the neighbor sees that and puts a hive at my fence, themselves mowing there own lawn all the time, having no flowers.

      • Robert Guyton 3.1.1
        16 January 2019 at 3:41 pm

        ” may get honey from my lawn”
        Wow!
        You want to ring-fence the pollen from the flowers that grow in your garden?
        Have you considered patenting the colour of your flowers?
        Some people might be looking over your fence and soaking it up with their eyes; exploiters!!!

        • DJ Ward 3.1.1.1
          16 January 2019 at 6:07 pm

          I think you got the wrong end of the stick. I can understand why people who plant land for honey production only for next door profiting are complianing. I was pointing out reality is it’s impossible to prevent.

          Unless you make having a bee hive a resource consent event. You could create a Beehive Bureaucracy just for subservience to the state and protection of preferred landowners.

          I think I prefer the flaws of freedom.

          In my own lawn example, I would encourage others to do the same if they want to keep bees, as well as flowering bushes, trees. The mowed lawn is a desert. A lawn allowed to flower supports many more insects and the things that feed on them. Then it can be mowed and you get a great composting crop.

      • Ad 3.1.2
        16 January 2019 at 4:17 pm

        DJ you should do a post on bees and the rural economy of honey.

        My family own a reasonable sized drystock farm south of Kaitaia, and most everywhere around it has reverted to Manuka. Plenty of very, very competitive apiarists up there now. And a fair few jobs.

        Personally I could see the family farm just hold their nose for four years and let the whole thing revert, then go straight to honey production. Much better return, whole bunch more viable, and good for the land.

        • DJ Ward 3.1.2.1
          16 January 2019 at 6:43 pm

          Yes I watched a documentary a year or so on a family as you described up north.

          I don’t do it myself because I’m a bit allergic to them. My best friend has a close friend who is involved with bee keeping in an urban setting for himself as well as having worked in the industry overseas. Plus a workmate did it for awhile as well. So I have had quite a few conversations, helped make things, and relaxed in his backyard while watching the hives in action.

          I’ll have look at the subject, and a think.

          I’ll put something on, How do we get there.

  4. mauī 4
    16 January 2019 at 9:19 am

    Miss You Ed:

    • te reo putake 4.1
      16 January 2019 at 9:28 am

      Heh! I raise you one John Waite:

      • Ad 4.1.1
        16 January 2019 at 10:01 am

        I miss Bill a bunch more.
        He was a grumpy fuck but he was our grumpy fuck.

        • te reo putake 4.1.1.1
          16 January 2019 at 10:08 am

          Too right, Ad. I rarely agreed with Bill’s opinions, but I loved the way he expressed them.

          • marty mars 4.1.1.1.1
            16 January 2019 at 11:18 am

            Where is he?

            Edit I think Anne means ed.

            • Tamati Tautuhi 4.1.1.1.1.1
              16 January 2019 at 1:18 pm

              Really missing ED.

              • marty mars …
                16 January 2019 at 1:39 pm

                Me not so much but I was wondering what has happened to bill.

                • veutoviper …
                  16 January 2019 at 2:28 pm

                  IIRC someone (one of the admin/moderators? ) mentioned in passing some weeks ago that he and someone else(?) were “on sabbatical” – but cannot find the comment.

                  My sincere apologies for snapping at you re PG – was trying to be open minded about other commenters such as PG being able to comment here – and then did exactly to you what I accused you of. Mea culpa.

                  • marty mars …
                    16 January 2019 at 9:32 pm

                    All good – I did feel sad – but that was because I ‘made’ you and Robert comment to me like that not sad actually about your comment which was fair enough.

          • veutoviper 4.1.1.1.2
            16 January 2019 at 11:37 am

            I agree that I miss Bill’s opinions which I also rarely agreed with but they nevertheless were valid and needed to be considered even if not agreed with. But I do not miss his moderation … Less said the better, but I know it drove some people away, including me, on occasions. I have a fairly thick skin, but his attacks were well over the top sometimes.

            • te reo putake 4.1.1.1.2.1
              16 January 2019 at 11:48 am

              Moderation is always problematic, vv, and it takes a toll on the person doing the mahe too. None of the authors want to see people removed from the site, however, that’s often the best thing to keep the place ticking along.

              Bill put in place a really good system where we authors can keep track of moderation decisions and the reasoning for them. It means that when making the big calls on a misbehaving commenter, there is a record of previous attempts to get an improvement from them. That really helps with consistency.

              Each moderator has their own style, but I can tell you, it gets incredibly frustrating when people don’t take the hint. It can be really, really hard to be diplomatic in those circumstances.

              • veutoviper …
                16 January 2019 at 12:00 pm

                I certainly don’t disagree with any of that, trp. And I am interested that it was Bill who set up the recording system for moderation decisions and similar.

                From time to time I am a moderator/administrator on a worldwide blog of a completely different nature, subject etc to this one, so know from personal experience the problems etc. Each instance requiring moderation is different in some aspect to similar instances in the past, and it is a tightrope walk as I know. But I still stand by my comments above from observation and personal experience. But lets leave it at that.

          • greywarshark 4.1.1.1.3
            16 January 2019 at 7:35 pm

            A song for Bill – here is Willie Nelson Always on my Mind.
            (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7f189Z0v0Y

            and a bit more nostalgia
            Crosby Stills Nash Young
            It’s been a Long Time
            (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVW9sOsXAjU

            And I’ll throw in Woodstock with lyrics.
            And we’ve got to get ourselves back to the garden.
            (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g25DlXOWmMo

        • patricia bremner 4.1.1.2
          16 January 2019 at 11:17 am

          Yes, where is Bill? Oh Anne I see.

        • OnceWasTim 4.1.1.3
          16 January 2019 at 11:24 am

          +1.
          I know/am related to a Scottish Maori just like him. Much we can agree on, a lot we cannot.
          Could have used him when entertaining the family Tory faction Christmas lunch time

    • Anne 4.2
      16 January 2019 at 9:54 am

      Well, if he had learnt from his mistakes and played by the rules of the site he would still be here maui.

      • mauī 4.2.1
        16 January 2019 at 4:24 pm

        He did learn Anne, as I stated here (https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-10-01-2019/#comment-1570382) and no-one disagreed.

        Ed was one of the best at taking moderation on board and not getting banned for the same thing, while others continue to be banned for the same behaviour.

        The truth is Ed was not wanted on this board by certain parts, and that is why he is banned.

        • te reo putake 4.2.1.1
          16 January 2019 at 4:40 pm

          Maui. Please don’t be a goose. This thread has been pretty good till now and the conversation has been an adult discussion about what was a genuinely difficult moderation decision. I know you don’t like the facts of the matter, but the truth is Ed (and his many alternative names) never learned a fucken thing. For whatever reason, he just kept coming back, doing the same dumb shit day after day. Which is why he was repeatedly banned by multiple moderators.

          And, no, I don’t want to get into a discussion about it. Suck it up and move on.

        • McFlock 4.2.1.2
          16 January 2019 at 4:55 pm

          Silence != agreement

          Important lesson to learn, that one.

    • Bewildered 4.3
      16 January 2019 at 11:44 am

      Bring back Ed

      • te reo putake 4.3.1
        16 January 2019 at 11:50 am

        Ed’s trying to come back, Bewildered. Lots of comments in the trash from his sockpuppets 😉

        • veutoviper 4.3.1.1
          16 January 2019 at 12:17 pm

          He tried a couple of comments on TDB on Jan 11 also, complaining about TS, but haven’t seen any since (although I have not really checked since). Wonder whether he has been blocked there? [Rhetorical question only … ]

          https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2019/01/11/3-under-the-news-radar-2018-so-about-all-the-russia-hysteria/#comment-449736

          ED says:
          JANUARY 11, 2019 AT 10:22 AM
          I was attacked and abused on the Standard for stating this about Russia.
          Joe90, Stuart Munro, Andre and Te Reo Putake are cheerleaders for war against Russia on that centrist chattering club.

          (A few other familar TS commenters also on that thread.)

          https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2019/01/11/5-under-the-news-radar-2018-the-brutal-occupation-of-palestine-brutal-saudi-fuelled-civil-war-in-yemen-the-magnitude-of-climate-catastrophe/#comment-449735

          ED says:
          JANUARY 11, 2019 AT 10:19 AM
          I was silenced by Te Reo Putake for suggesting radical solutions to climate change.
          The Standard has become a centrist chattering club with tints of Mccarthyism.

          LOL

        • Bewildered 4.3.1.2
          16 January 2019 at 2:15 pm

          I agree with your moderation TRP but purely for entertainment Ed was gold, I know that’s not the purpose of the site but I am sure that’s why a lot of people come here, sorry not high brow but the left wing punch ups are way more entertaining than dealing to RWnJ like me😊

          • te reo putake 4.3.1.2.1
            16 January 2019 at 3:50 pm

            Dead right, Bewildered. That’s one of the reasons why it was a hard call. There’s an old saying ‘no grit, no pearl’, which suggests that the occasional irritation can lead to a beautiful outcome. However, this situation felt more like ‘all grit, no pearl’.

        • Pete 4.3.1.3
          16 January 2019 at 3:26 pm

          Is it to do with phases of the moon or something? There seems to be even more frenzy than usual going on on the trademe message board site.

          I see there the Prime Minister is lazy and is on holiday recovering from all the days she didn’t turn up to work , etc., etc. School’s out I suppose and kids have to occupy themselves doing something.

          • Tamati Tautuhi 4.3.1.3.1
            16 January 2019 at 4:24 pm

            KIwiblog very vicious on Winston today. Laugh a minute, very disrespectful though, they have a feeding frenzy over there at times.

            They refer to Jacinda as SLG.

            • McFlock 4.3.1.3.1.1
              16 January 2019 at 4:29 pm

              lol totally not an echo chamber. /sarc

              I don’t even want to know how they get to “SLG”, it just means that nobody else knows what they’re wanking on about.

    • beatie 4.4
      16 January 2019 at 7:17 pm

      I miss Ed too. I found that his links were very informative. I think that his banning was something of an ego trip. (lefter than thou?) If you are not well educated and somewhat inarticulate , it can be really intimidating to comment on The Standard. I think it has become something of an echo chamber. Where are the working class/beneficiaries voices? I gave up commenting after a sarcastic response from Bill because I posted something that had already posted. James takes over threads with his bullshit and gets away with all sorts of shit. ‘Birds of a feather” etc.

      • greywarshark 4.4.1
        16 January 2019 at 7:46 pm

        beatie
        You make te point that James takes over threads and so does Ed. To my mind that was one of his main disadvantages. his isn’t a place for people’s entertainment by the way. We might make our comments in entertaining ways
        and if you want to comment about serious matters and got put off by Bill, have another go with some detail and not just your moans about how bad things are and opinions which is what Ed did.

        • beatie 4.4.1.1
          16 January 2019 at 8:00 pm

          “My ‘moans’ about how bad things are” are my reality greywarshark. I apologise if that makes you uncomfortable.

      • mauī 4.4.2
        16 January 2019 at 8:35 pm

        I agree with you. Now with Ed, Bill and CV gone there is a large chasm with the ‘alt-left’ voice pretty much wiped out from here. Whoever fills the void won’t last long I suspect.

    • Morrissey 4.5
      16 January 2019 at 8:21 pm

      Jesus Christ, mauī!?!?!?!?!?

      Ed Shareen?!?!?!? Hasn’t Ed been punished enough?

      https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/04/godawful-new-hobbit-song-fails-to.html

  5. OnceWasTim 5
    16 January 2019 at 10:10 am

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/380206/ethics-code-may-see-mega-ministry-contracts-lost-lobby-group-says

    Well done MoBIE – at last, and on one of the issues it faces. Lets hope it signals an overall change in culture.

    But what is Kirk Hope saying/threatening here?
    That businesses should only have to be ‘pretty ethical’, ‘pretty legal’?

    • Morrissey 5.1
      16 January 2019 at 10:34 am

      Kirk Hope? Shallow, complacent, doltishly doctrinaire. Utterly despicable.

      KIRK HOPE: China is an example of a rapidly industrializing country which is also rapidly digitizing. It’s replaced the fulltime jobs of an industrial economy with trading. That’s the secret behind the success of Ali Baba! One or two people on line.

      MEGAN WHELAN: [clearly dubious] That’s significantly less secure, though.

      KIRK HOPE: I’m not sure it is. We have to think about what it will look like. There’s a LOT of work to go on in the education system; our funding models, what’s happening at the secondary level.

      MEGAN WHELAN: Another thing with Richard—-I realize I’m sounding like a socialist revolutionary, and I don’t mean to, ha ha ha ha!—but he was worried about workers’ rights.

      KIRK HOPE: People will have more flexibility. They might want to take six months off and travel.

      MEGAN WHELAN: Yeah but not a lot of people have this option. It’s different when it’s thrust on them. …. Anyway, what’s the last song you’ve chosen?

      https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/04/megan-whelan-interviews-kirk-hope-jan.html

      • OnceWasTim 5.1.1
        16 January 2019 at 10:47 am

        Sounds like if we hadn’t had a change in junta from the gNats, Kirk would have been a shoo-in for Smol’s replacement as MoBIE CEO

        • patricia bremner 5.1.1.1
          16 January 2019 at 11:24 am

          We had a lucky escape, and the gNats china arm was ready to be installed.

          • veutoviper 5.1.1.1.1
            16 January 2019 at 11:28 am

            Off topic, but is Friday the big day IIRC?

            If so, my very best wishes and I will be sending good vibes for an excellent outcome.

            • patricia bremner 5.1.1.1.1.1
              16 January 2019 at 5:37 pm

              Yes, and thank you Totally off topic but may give some a laugh
              Hubby and I turn up to pre-op hospital education session.
              After meeting 5 team members, we were given a ‘Grabber” to pick things up after the hip op.
              We were most interested in the talk about easy ways to get into the car.
              So we get out there, we successfully try their method.. Yay!!
              N packs everything in and we are off.
              Get home… where is the grabber?
              Oh heck, put it on the roof of the car didn’t we!! N goes back …no luck.
              We ring to explain. Much laughter from the desk. Half hour later, ‘phone goes
              “Don’t worry, it was handed in, and no-one had driven over it. The team was delighted to hear you were so keen to practice what you were taught!! Further you made their day..they had a right old laugh… see you Friday.”
              They already have my number I think!!

        • greywarshark 5.1.1.2
          16 January 2019 at 4:42 pm

          I liked the warning of Kirk Hope that if the government was too thorough in its changes, businesses wouldn’t want to do government work. That is so funny.
          The whole trend for neo-liberals is to bad-mouth the government’s effectiveness and efficiency so that business gets to do and make a profit from providing government services, mainly by cutting wages and staff, and showing bad faith to the citizens in their dealings and practices.

          No way are they going to want to stop milking the government, no matter how it tightens its teats.

          • OnceWasTim 5.1.1.2.1
            16 January 2019 at 5:30 pm

            yep. Well I guess we’re all the product of the bubbles we choose to operate in, and the degree to which we’re prepared to sacrifice principles.
            Seems like in Kirk’s case, and many others, principles come cheap.
            (That is until they don’t and it all goes tits up)

  6. marty mars 6
    16 January 2019 at 12:13 pm

    Cool

    “The first video shows Chang’e-4’s descent into the Von Karman crater. The CLEP chose the crater as its landing site because of the crater’s depth. Von Karman is a crater-within-a-crater, and it’s possible that the impact event blasted away the crust and exposed some of the Moon’s mantle. The CLEP is using Chang’e-4 to examine the chemical and geological nature of the area, and to try and discover more about the Moon’s formation and interior.”

    https://www.universetoday.com/141197/incredible-descent-video-of-the-chinese-lander-to-the-lunar-far-side/#more-141197

  7. Ad 7
    16 January 2019 at 12:57 pm

    Well well, the Prime Minister of Canada Mr Trudeau asks Prime Minister Ardern with assistance in the Huawei-China digital security issue.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12191245

    The New Zealand Prime Ministers’ office comments:
    “They discussed the detention and legal treatment of Canadian citizens in China.

    “Although the cases are a consular matter between Canada and China – as the extradition case relates to a Huawei executive in Canada – there are principles at stake that concern us all,” the spokeswoman said.

    She added that the Government closely monitors international developments which may affect the safety of New Zealanders abroad, but advice for travel to China was to exercise normal safety and security precautions.

    Earlier, Trudeau’s office confirmed to the Herald the pair had spoken.

    “The prime ministers discussed the detention and legal treatment of Canadian citizens in China and the need for all countries to respect judicial procedure and rule of law,” a spokesperson said.

    “The leaders also exchanged perspectives on shared priorities, including their commitment to promoting gender equality and women’s economic empowerment.”

    Interesting to see non-Five Eyes countries such as Japan and Poland make similar moves against Huawei on security grounds.

    But for Canada and New Zealand, nothing like something as basic to New Zealand as Commonwealth justice concepts coming up against Chinese ones.

    Sooner or later Xi Jinping is going to have to bend.

    • One Two 7.1
      16 January 2019 at 2:18 pm

      Japan and Poland…

      Both are ‘under management’ by ‘The West’…

      Values based foreign policy

      It’s a cover story…

      Any serious discussion about radio frequency networks would include ‘safety’…

      Not just security…

    • OnceWasTim 8.1
      16 January 2019 at 4:14 pm

      Well let’s hope Petey Dutto and Scottie Morro and Grayo RIcho and Mattey Cormmo, and even Joolie Bisho and Petey Credo and Petey Gleeso, not to mention Ashey Gillo and Andy Bolto and Davo Speersy and Kerry Gilbo and a shitload of others are right in amongst it.
      Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Oi Oi OI

  9. Bruce 9
    16 January 2019 at 3:53 pm

    https://youtu.be/H_f9gpg4t6c

    And the big debate at the moment is some people choosing to ingest some herb thats been around and ingested since dawn of time. Gives some perspective to what really matters.

    • joe90 9.1
      16 January 2019 at 4:45 pm

      Watched the video and had a look at what the wingnutosphere is saying about 5G tech.

      And of course they can’t can’t make up their minds about whether 5G is an eat your brain cancer causing mind control plot or a nefarious, deep state/google socialistic watching me plot. Or Jews.

      https://twitter.com/CassandraRules/status/961338157408116736

    • beatie 9.2
      16 January 2019 at 7:51 pm

      Thanks for the video Bruce. I’m really concerned about this. I’ve just had a smart meter installed (against my wishes) and it happens to be outside my bedroom . Unfortunately when I read the small print of my power contract it allowed for smart meter installation. It’s all about the money eh? I have an autoimmune disease and over the years (25) I have found that environmental factors have a huge impact, yet Big Pharma rules I don’t believe assurances from the telecom industry that every thing will be OK, because again it’s all about the money and fuck the consumer.

  10. Morrissey 10
    16 January 2019 at 4:42 pm

    “I feel a bit sorry for Theresa May”…”I think she’s acted honorably.”
    Mora’s gone, but The Panel is still bedeviled with bland and brainless blather.
    The Panel, Wednesday 16 January 2019
    Wallace Chapman, Joe Bennett, Emma Espiner, Caitlin Cherry

    This tired light chat show has been shaken up a little over the holiday period. They’ve rejigged the format a bit. And as we saw yesterday, Wallace Chapman seems a little bit more rigorous than Jim Mora, and seems to have at long last developed a backbone, in contrast to his supine behaviour in 2014, when he let he-man author Lee Child rhasodize insanely about how in real life “we all” want to see violent thugs like Jack Reacher torture and murder people.

    Sadly, however, the vapid chatter of the Mora era has not gone away.

    The first discussion topic in today’s pre-show chat was the vexed question of how to get boys and men to read books. This was the chance for perky producer Caitlin Cherry to put in her two cents worth:

    CAITLIN CHERRY: You just have to introduce them to Lee Child books!

    ….Awkward silence….

    EMMA ESPINER: [awkwardly] Ha ha ha.

    CAITLIN CHERRY: Well, he’s a manly man.

    ….Awkward silence….

    JOE BENNETT: [grimly] “Lee Child book” is an oxymoron.

    Significantly, perhaps, Wallace Chapman did not spring to the defence of the man he had allowed, unchallenged, to spout such disgusting bilge four and a half years ago.

    After that encouraging moment, it was back to the baloney. The subject was the Brexit vote in the U.K. parliament, and the Panellists competed for the most banal and brainless utterance of the day….

    EMMA ESPINER: I feel a bit sorry for Theresa May.

    JOE BENNETT: I think she’s acted honorably.

    Then he burbled that “it’s a KNOWN FACT that Russia interfered in Brexit.” Wallace Chapman demurred at that: “Are you sure?” And Bennett doubled down pompously: “Oh YES….”

    ad nauseam….

    [1] https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-15-01-2019/#comment-1571765

    • greywarshark 10.1
      16 January 2019 at 4:48 pm

      Morrissey you should put your name forward and suggest that they have a regular spot for a stirrer of some sort who might make some outrageous, to the bland,
      comment. There wouls be a circular wheel which the stirrers could hop on for a swing and be replaced so they never appeared more than once. And offer yourself for the first. That would ginger it up.

      • te reo putake 10.1.1
        16 January 2019 at 5:12 pm

        Bomber tried that. Didn’t last long!

        • Morrissey 10.1.1.1
          16 January 2019 at 8:07 pm

          He didn’t last long, but Michelle Boag will never forget being humiliated by him on the program. You can be sure she lobbied fearsomely for his removal when the opportunity presented itself. That opportunity was, of course, his display of lèse majesté in 2011, when he foolishly dared to point out the Prime Minister’s loutish imbecility in the House.

          Gordon Campbell, another eloquent critic of the Key regime and therefore banned from The Panel, wrote an admirable account of the censoring….
          http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2011/10/10/gordon-campbell-on-rnz%E2%80%99s-banning-of-bomber-bradbury/

      • Morrissey 10.1.2
        16 January 2019 at 8:04 pm

        Been there, Shark, and done it. Back in 2013 I was an excruciatingly incompetent, utterly tongue-tied, nervous, giggling, useless Panellist. It was an April afternoon that will go down in infamy…

        CHRISTINE RANKIN: Ha ha ha ha ha ha!

        MORRISSEY BREEN: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Um.

        JIM MORA: Ha ha ha ha ha! It’s time to find out what our Panelists have been thinking about. Christine Rankin, what’s been on YOUR mind lately?

        CHRISTINE RANKIN: Well, Jim, look, I’ve been so busy working for the reintroduction of corporal punishment for the under-fives that I haven’t had TIME to do any thinking at all for several years now. I really can’t think of one thing to talk about.

        JIM MORA: [long, irritated silence] Mmmmm-kay. Morrissey, have YOU got something on your mind?

        MORRISSEY BREEN: Ummm, ahhhh, I’m going to abandon my, uh, carefully prepared speech about foreign policy, and comment on Christine’s failure to ummm, errr, honour her, ummmm, commitments to your show.

        CHRISTINE RANKIN: [indignant] I’ve been BUSY.

        MORRISSEY BREEN: Ummmm, ahhhh, yeah. Ummm…to paraphrase Dr. Johnson, I will say this about Christine: “This woman’s thinking is like a dog’s walking on his hind legs. It is not done well; but you are surprised to find it done at all.”

        JIM MORA: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! That’s very funny! I think he’s talking about you Christine!

        MORRISSEY BREEN: And that’s all I have to say, Jim. Um.

        JIM MORA: Short and sweet. That’s the way we like them on the Panel! Okay, next up, Lanthanide will tell us why he thinks a nuclear reactor in the middle of Christchurch would be a good idea. First, though, what do the Panelists think of this?

        RANKIN: [fervently] That’s a SPLENDID idea. At last, somebody talking some sense….

        https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2019/01/the-victims-rights-advocate-garth.html

  11. SaveNZ 11
    16 January 2019 at 4:55 pm

    At last some sensible commentary on the issue…

    “However FIRST Union General Secretary Dennis Maga claims worker shortages are due to low pay.

    “There’s a reason no one wants to work in these jobs, their time isn’t worth the money and they often cannot afford to live on what some of these businesses choose to offer,” he said.

    He cited horticulture as an example of a sector which has the money to pay.

    “Horticulture is one of our highest export earners,” he said.

    “If you want people to do the work, pay them fairly, pay them what they’re worth to you and stop crying out for migrant workers to exploit.”

    He said New Zealanders are hard workers and they will do the work, as long as they feel it’s fair pay for the work.

    “It’s important that we red-flag companies that claim to have a worker shortage to ensure they’re not exploiting migrants due to their low pay not attracting workers who already live here.”

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/rural/2019/01/union-fires-broadside-at-worker-shortage-claims.html

  12. SaveNZ 12
    16 January 2019 at 5:01 pm

    The reality is that we have allowed a situation to develop across practically every work space in NZ under neoliberalism of ‘subcontracting’ out the responsibility of employees.

    From hospital meals to Spotless, NZ has constantly contracted out to third parties taking a profit while driving wages and conditions down, to Chorus subcontractors going through 3 – 4 companies and 92% of these workers being paid below minimum wages.

    Then we have the horticulture industry with unliveable wages and temporary jobs at those low wages not attracting normal people who used to work there 20 years ago, now not welcome or they just don’t have the money to work there after paying for accomodation and transport down!

    Industry in NZ has become used to giving a cheque to a middle man to bring in 100 workers because it is easier (and cheaper) to do so.

    Part of the issue is the work safe issues which have become non sensical when Pike river is ok and work safe never prosecuted, but teachers are now responsible for kids safety at a micro level.

    Our laws have become impractical and as well as the appearance of cost savings and ease of contracting out responsibility there is also real reasons why employers want to contract out due to impractical rules on safety and responsibility.

    • WeTheBleeple 12.1
      16 January 2019 at 7:56 pm

      Absolutely. I have broken a number on farm picking and pruning records for kiwifruit, blueberries, grapes, pears and apples, and can supervise a gang to go fast alongside me. You want your crop cared for or brought in fast I can do it. I even love the work.

      But they won’t pay me right so they can sod off and whine about their problems elsewhere.

      Pot bellied pigs = NZ hort business owners.

      • OnceWasTim 12.1.1
        16 January 2019 at 9:29 pm

        Yep @ WTB. You posted a video the other day (recovering from desertification, etc).
        In your experiences, did you ever witness one of those immigration raids on orchards?
        Not so long ago, even one of the cops (of long experience) that had to accompany a LI/INZ raid told me how bloody embarrassed he felt. He knew that the victims of all the exploitation were about to be tipped out while the perpetrator was just going for another round, and another, and another………..
        (see 13.1 below as well)

  13. SaveNZ 13
    16 January 2019 at 5:20 pm

    I also don’t think it is so much as migrant exploitation but a cozy relationship between migrants trying to game the system to enter NZ and become a permanent resident or citizen here, when they do not have the necessary job skills or criteria to get in legally. Hence a plethora of ways, from marriage to paying for a fake job or paying to do a useless qualification here (often at a private institution) has emerged.

    Most of the migrants are not being exploited but are willing participants in it, so it has become a symbiotic relationship to make the NZ government grant citizenship/residency in return for a cheap or free worker , a fake course or a speedy marriage or child being conceived in NZ to help get the points.

    Some of the migrants are exploited but plenty have a clear path to try and get the permanent visa or citizenship so they can give up the pretence and have access to (by world standards) very generous social welfare in NZ.

    If it costs you $100k to buy your way in NZ but you then get 2 new countries to work in including OZ , free health, education and super and social welfare, accomodation supplements and child allowances and can bring your relatives in in many cases too, it sounds like a good deal for many.

    • OnceWasTim 13.1
      16 January 2019 at 9:11 pm

      You probably need to ask yourself @SaveNZ how it all started. You’re not wrong about all the scheming and scamming in many cases, however the system we implemented (immigration policies, false promises made, complete lack of monitoring and oversight of tertiary education providers, charlatan immigration advisors with cosy little links offshore – “vertically integrated”, labour hire companies et al).
      The saddest thing is that it has affected the truly genuine immigrants with a commitment to the place.
      Any legit immigration lawyer will tell you the number of cases they have on file due to some or all of the above. Some of them have been screaming about it for several years and it’s only now things are starting to happen (SLOWLY).

      I could tell you of a number of cases where we’ve lost the skills and commitment we’re supposedly after because lack of oversight, incompetence and under-resourcing has enabled the genuine to be confused with the dross and scammers by INZ. I could give you examples where lil ole Nu Zull has lost some really skilled and committed people to places like Canada and a few European countries.
      I’m not just talking about horticulturalists whose green credentials are second nature to them, but also IT professionals, and even one that Rocket LAb would love to have gotten their hands on.
      Oh Dear – too bad
      but if only INZ, the Labour Inspectorate, IAA and associated had listened to a few people at the coal face (Immigrant Workers’ Assoc, legit Immigration Lawyers, Unions, etc. they probably could have prevented a lot of this and saved themselves a lot of trouble. They chose not to and kept with the policies and enforcement that just kept all the churn going – good business and a bloody good earn for some.

  14. joe90 14
    16 January 2019 at 5:56 pm

    A bottom up collapse, and we’re done.

    .

    Scientist Brad Lister returned to Puerto Rican rainforest after 35 years to find 98% of ground insects had vanished

    “We knew that something was amiss in the first couple days,” said Brad Lister. “We were driving into the forest and at the same time both Andres and I said: ‘Where are all the birds?’ There was nothing.”

    His return to the Luquillo rainforest in Puerto Rico after 35 years was to reveal an appalling discovery. The insect population that once provided plentiful food for birds throughout the mountainous national park had collapsed. On the ground, 98% had gone. Up in the leafy canopy, 80% had vanished. The most likely culprit by far is global warming.

    […]

    Since Lister’s first visits to Luquillo, other scientists had predicted that tropical insects, having evolved in a very stable climate, would be much more sensitive to climate warming. “If you go a little bit past the thermal optimum for tropical insects, their fitness just plummets,” he said.

    As the data came in, the predictions were confirmed in startling fashion. “The number of hot spells, temperatures above 29C, have increased tremendously,” he said. “It went from zero in the 1970s up to something like 44% of the days.” Factors important elsewhere in the world, such as destruction of habitat and pesticide use, could not explain the plummeting insect populations in Luquillo, which has long been a protected area.

    Data on other animals that feed on bugs backed up the findings. “The frogs and birds had also declined simultaneously by about 50% to 65%,” Lister said. The population of one dazzling green bird that eats almost nothing but insects, the Puerto Rican tody, dropped by 90%. Not due to destruction of habitat or pesticide use etc. Pure climate change outcomes.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jan/15/insect-collapse-we-are-destroying-our-life-support-systems

  15. Ad 15
    16 January 2019 at 6:24 pm

    If anyone is interested in the evidence being brought against Manafort, this article in the Guardian has the actual charge sheet before the court:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jan/15/paul-manafort-robert-mueller-russia-trump-2016-campaign

  16. WeTheBleeple 16
    16 January 2019 at 8:16 pm

    Poor Ozzies getting the brunt of Climate change already. Just too damn hot to function so there goes productivity…

    A heatwave will greatly reduce farm production here too I’d say. Only a matter of time. farmers ought to get planting. Fast growing nitrogenous species and crop trees they support. Get on it!

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12191268

    It only takes a minute walking around the city to see how bad all the concrete and tarseal is for heating the place up – offset it with trees, plant now for everyone’s comfort.

    • Exkiwiforces 16.1
      16 January 2019 at 9:51 pm

      Northern Australia is feeling it atm, with a lack of rain during the “Wet Season. Darwin and including its rural area where the wife and I live has have the driest December in record since 1991. Atm we have had about a quarter of our wet season rain (about 300mm) which is going to cause problems for a number of people who still run off bores or use rain water tanks for storage. The gap between a good wet season and a bad (dry) wet season is getting smaller and some us are starting think this wet season is going to be dry one, which is going to cause issues this coming dry season/ fire season.

      From an environment POV, a lot of estuarine fish species have disappeared to deeper water and other main fish species have move further of offshore. The real sad thing is our sea turtles and sea cows have disappeared or those that have sighted are in sort of distress. It’s the same for our min crabs as well.

  17. joe90 17
    16 January 2019 at 10:25 pm

    Move over Gilets Jaunes. Last week an estimated 150-200 million Indian workers went on strike in protest against what they describe as the anti-labour policies of Narendra Modi’s Bharatiya Janata Party government.

    (I’ll keep an eye out but nothing much in English language media about outcomes)

    Right to Strike

    This strike, like the 17 before it, is about livelihood issues and about the right to strike. A new trade union law sits in the legislature. It would mean the death of trade unionism in India. Tapan Sen’s statement about enslavement seems less hyperbolic in this context. If workers have no power, then they are effectively enslaved to the firm. This is already the case in factories that operate almost like concentration camps.

    Walking through factories along the Chennai-Coimbatore corridor or in the Manesar area gives you a sense of the power of these new factories. They are a fortress, difficult to breach. Or a prison. Either way, trade unions are not welcome there. They are kept out by force—either violence or political muscle. Workers are often brought in from far away, migrants with few roots in the area. No workers stay long. As soon as they appear settled, they are removed.

    Footloose workers and harassed trade unionists make for a harsh work environment. The culture of working-class solidarity erodes, social violence grows—the seedbed of neofascist politics.

    https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/01/08/heres-what-real-strike-looks-150-million-say-no-despotism-india?amp

  18. sumsuch 18
    16 January 2019 at 10:26 pm

    Trying to register on Kiwiblog. Why? I know little about life but I do know about fight. Resistance from’m. Maybe I do matter.

    You have a regular 100 comments, they have a regular 300. Everyone here has to be ‘correto’, in fact and opinion, they allow the whole field. A certain openness.

    My b.a. Christian brother is scouring-of-the-centre-of-the-earth sceptical of everything outside what he swallowed whole without looking.

    The Left regard reality as their bedrock, the Right have regard for fairy tales.

  19. greywarshark 19
    16 January 2019 at 10:37 pm

    Are country’s getting loose with the ways they treat people crossing their borders.
    The Iran English language tv channel says that its anchorwoman flew to the USA and was then arrested, and no-one knows why or can find out where she is.

    There have been stressed relations recently between the countries.
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12191542

  20. marty mars 20
    16 January 2019 at 10:45 pm

    What the hell was o’connor thinking???

    Labour MP and former Police Association president Greg O’Connor has been hit with a $150 fine and 20 demerit points after a member of the public photographed him driving on the wrong side of the road…

    …Last week, Mr O’Connor said he had no memory of driving in a way that would warrant police attention, and he repeated that when contacted yesterday.

    But he had been shown photographs of his car crossing the centreline.

    “I’ve accepted that I crossed the line and I’ve paid the ticket,” Mr O’Connor said…

    https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/queenstown/oconnor-promises-keep-left-after-crossing-line