TSmithfield asked how was peace possible when Russia does things like this ?
I responded by saying we have apparently come to an easy accomodation with allies who do things far more egregious than this:examples given, and somehow a peace was found.
Result? very predictable cries about "whataboutism" Frankly guys, that is worn out and lacking any kind of credible argument
Once again you will shriek Russian propaganda!! when I post this next link
Even if it is true that the Ukrainians shot down a Russian missile (how dreadful of them), how does that change anything?
After all, the Russians were targeting the Ukrainian power grid in this attack, amongst other things. That sort of action in the freezing conditions now prevailing in Ukraine could even have a worse effect in terms of human suffering.
The Russians are very aware of the suffering they are likely to cause one way or another with this sort of behaviour targeting civilian infrastructure. So, in no way does anything you say justify the Russian action.
The fact that you cite RT just confirms our suspicions about you.
Yes Jenny , its hugely profitable, I've made 3000 roubles a month at least, and have a time share in fabulous dachas in Crimea.There's never any difficulty getting the money sent over either, it comes packed in those Russian dolls
Oh the stories I could tell you !Dancing with Putin at my wedding, the fun!,the singing! the barbecues at the Kremlin, the chess games with Lavrov !
And no one has ever found me out (but there are those who've had their dark suspicions!)
Whether or not you work for a Russian troll farm, or not is irrelevant really. The way you slurp up to the Russian war machine, the effect is the same.
Well let's face it. Your continued appeasement for Russian atrocities does sound very much like the mantra of a useful idiot (and I use those words carefully as I was well aquainted with one in the 1960's who pestered my father relentlessly with Soviet propaganda). I know how they operated and what their belief systems were. They were totally down the rabbit hole of Soviet lies and misinformation regularly sent to them from the Russian consulate as it was then.
My father was the President of a Union for over 20 years so they were particularly keen to get him on their side and ferment trouble. They didn't like the fact that he ignored them, and instead the Union was able to gain very good pay rates and working conditions for the members of his union without the need for constant strikes and stop works. On one occasion a National Party MP was heard to say in the House how appalled he was that these workers were earning almost as much as he!
If only those pesky Ukrainians would see just how benign and helpful these continued bombardments form Russia are, and stop trying to shoot them down. Everything would be much so much better.
It says a lot about you that you can brush off the horror of this situation with some sort of wierd whataboutism justification of it.
But, putting that aside, why would the people of Ukraine be the slightest bit interested in doing any sort of peace deal with Russia when Russia behaves like this? Especially since the horror of this situation will likely just motivate the west to supply more and heavier weapons to Ukraine, thus increasing the likelihood of a Ukrainian victory.
If you really want to see a peaceful resolution to this conflict then you should be condemning this sort of behaviour not excusing it.
Likewise, the siege of Constantinople in 1451 was a particularly brutal affair.
And what about those nasty Romans sowing salt on the ruins of Carthage in 145BCE – there are plenty of examples which can be used to excuse present day barbarity.
Peace is possible .,it has to be .Vietnam has apparently forgiven the genocidal assaults of the Vietnam war, or as they call it , the Resistance war against America
In the face of our own barbarity, it seems we forgive and forget very easily
Where is the consistency?
Why aren’t we arming the Palestinians and applying sanctions to Israel, not that I would recommend that
War is disgusting, and should be avoided at all costs, peace agreements implemented, but there are precious few anti war activists left anywhere in the west , not when so many livelihoods are dependent on war and other people get to do the bloodshedding
What I don't condemn is people wanting to defend their country, homes, and families against unwarranted agression from larger nations. So, in this case, I condemn war by condemning Russia.
But, I guess you will just say the Russians are acting in "self defence" or that the US did it therefore Russia can do it, or something equally inane.
Further to that, "condemning war" in the way that you would have it in this conflict would mean allowing the Russian army to roll in with its tanks uncontested and Ukraine capitulating in order to avoid war.
I've already said it .The war could have been prevented .The Minsk peace agreements signed between the LPR, DPR, and Ukraine was a path to peace, but as Poroshenko boasted, there was never any intention of implementing it , and the plan was to take Donbas by force
Then you have no understanding of why there is such tension between the eastern provinces (formerly Russian territory which Ukraine expanded into under Lenin in the 20's)mainly orthodox and culturally Russian , and the western parts, where you are more likely to encounter monuments to Nazi collaborators like Bandera , and more likely to belong to the Ukrainian Greek Catholic church
and the western parts, where you are more likely to encounter monuments to Nazi collaborators like Bandera , and more likely to belong to the Ukrainian Greek Catholic church
Your modus operandi is to go around and round in circles repeating the same nonsense that has already been debunked many times.
It has already been pointed out on numerous occasions that the far right only got around 2% of the vote in the last Ukrainian election. So, it obviously isn't much more of a problem than most countries.
If you are really that vexed about Nazis, then you should be really worried about Nazis in Russia. Especially as it appears Putin has been trying to manipulate them for his own ends, as the article points out.
From the link:
“What has received less coverage is the Putin regime’s own record of collaboration with far-right extremists.”
So, it looks more like a continuation of Russian agression following the annexation of Crimea than anything else.
Does the name Igor Girkin mean anything to you. Pity about that Malaysian passenger plane that was shot down. But I guess you would blame the Ukrainians for that as well.
Yes, Igor Girkin aka Strelkov, a nationalist and a nutter, banned from eastern Ukraine by Putin,and ever since a strident critic of Putin , because he thinks Putin is a softie and appeaser of the west.
He has only become critical of Putin over recent times. And was actually quite popular prior to the downing of the Malaysian plane which was terminal for his career.
From the previous link:
While leading a group of separatist militants into Ukraine in the 2014 Siege of Sloviansk, Girkin gained influence and attention, being appointed to the position of Minister of Defense in the Donetsk People's Republic, a puppet state of Russia.[4][5][6]
groan the Dresden and Tokyo attacks were 80 years ago now, Korea three quarters of a century ago and Rolling Thunder for all it's tonnage of bombs dropped was not an area bombing offensive. This sort of tedious whatabboutism is mired in a miserable ignorance of the last eighty years.
The thing is, targets like Dresden and Tokyo (and Hamburg) were attacked using incendiaries for the simple reason the attackers couldn't hit the particular but they could hit the general. In other words, the Allied night bombers could find, hit and set fire to a city easily but they couldn't hit a specific target within the city at all. The US bombing of Vietnam COULD hit specific targets, which is why the Vietnamese didn't bother to claim the Americans were engaging in indiscriminate terror attacks on civilians.
Western military thought no longer embraces area bombing because it doesn't work. It is wasteful of resources and it doesn't achieve it's supposed primary goal – the destruction of the enemies means and will to fight. A primary military consideration is are the means conmensurate with the ways and the ends? The UK devoted between 35-40% of it's total wartime output in WW2 to the construction of lavishly equipped heavy bombers, yet this force was frightfully vulnerable German nightfighters right to the end of the war and the heavy losses in bomber crews were inflicted on the best and brightest young men of the era. So, area bombing cost the UK more than it did Germany. Now that isn't to say such bombing doesn't achieve secondary objectives. The use of area bombing forces the enemy to disperse their industry, which is disruptive. It forces the diversion of resources into air defenses (in WW2 the Germans deployed thousands of large AA guns, fighters etc etc and air defense consumed almost all the output of Germany's electronics industry). Finally, the way the ends were achieved have ultimately become an issue. While area bombing has some justification, it is morally questionable, to say the least. Bombing civilians because otherwise you'd have all this expensive stuff sitting around doing not much is as bad morally and it is bad militarily.
Ultimately, the big lesson of WW2 was what WORKED was using strategic bombing to achieve a specific strategic aim. Thus, the "transport plan", or the attacks on the German canal system, or were the Americans would send 1000 USAAF heavy bombers (escorted by 1000 Mustang and Thunderbolt fighters) to carry out precision daylight bombing of vital targets as "bait" to force the Germans to send up their fighters, were they were engaged in a huge battle of attrition that the United States was always going to win handily via the application of Lanchester's equation. That is why now the west relies on precision guided weapons. Why would you bomb an entire city with 1000 bombers when all you want to do is destroy a tank factory?
The thread of logic that links Russia's missile attacks on the Ukraine with area bombing is the Russians are now no longer particularly interested in hitting the target they are aiming their wildly inaccurate Kh-22 and S300 missiles at. Just like destroying anything of military significance was a bonus of area bombing rather than the aim, so Russia regards actually hitting something they aim at and causing a militarily significant outcome as a bonus. The aim is an airborne expression of splenetic state terrorism at the temerity of the Ukrainians to resist and a brutal and cruel desire to inflict suffering on the Ukrainian civilian population.
The thing is, Western powers learnt from area bombing. It didn't work, it was wasteful, it was morally wrong in retrospect. They don't do it anymore. Russia, it seems, is not interested in these insights. They've learnt nothing and forgotten nothing from the human catastrophes of the mid 20th century.
The Western powers learnt not to area bomb? Or do you mean aerial?
You seem a bit lacking in some key understandings when it comes to being informed on what you are pontificating on about.
Any degree of comprehensive general knowledge should be familiar with the term area bombing. Here is the entry in Wikipedia. Avail yourself of some new knowledge.
"If you think the US has any morality whatsoever in its foreign policy …"morally wrong in retrospect"… come on , there's not really a discussion here…" Francesca
I don't think US foreign policy has any morality whatsoever. From the Halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli, and everything in between, the nature and the crimes of American imperialism are well documented.
Every imperialism is racist and genocidal, it is the very nature of imperialism.
Biden calls the Russian Federation imperialist. Putin calls the U.S imperialist. What they both have in common is that they both don't want it known that they are both imperialists.
All imperialists are racist, how else can they claim they have the right to invade and take over and run other people's countries unless they believe those people are inferior.
All imperialists are genocidal, how else can can an imperialist nation put down an insurgent people, who refuse to submit. As one US general once said in Vietnam 'We had to destroy the village to save it"
Genocide is destroying the village to save it writ large
If the Russian imperialists did take their cue from the American imperialists, the student has become the master.
What the horrors of Syria and Chechnya can tell us about Russia’s tactics in Ukraine
Russia is bringing the deadly tactics used in Chechnya and Syria to Ukraine’s cities.
Abdulkafi Alhamdo remembers the day he asked his wife to take their infant daughter out of Aleppo. “I told her to take my daughter through the [humanitarian] corridor just to stay alive,” Alhamdo said. “I thought this was the last time I would see them, the last time I would kiss my daughter. I remember my daughter was holding my knees and crying. Perhaps she knew something.”…..
…..the tactics on display in Ukraine are “a clear attempt by the Russian military to do exactly what they did in Syria, and certainly what they did in Grozny: a mass shelling campaign to instill fear, terror, destruction, chaos and to create conditions in which the civilian population flees en masse, then creating conditions in which eventually, even the largest urban territories will end up falling under their control.”………
The Grozny model
After 20 days of heavy artillery shelling of the city center — sometimes at a rate of 4,000 rounds an hour — the Russian military eventually took Grozny on Jan. 20, 2005.
The heavy bombardment of Grozny “worked” in one sense. The Russians took the city. But Mogulof and other observers believe it may have made the Chechens more resolved to fight back. “It’s mechanized terrorism,” ….
……The air assault killed tens of thousands of civilians and left Grozny in ruins. The United Nations called it “the most destroyed city on earth.” …..
Aleppo —“a kind of hell”
….In 2015, Russian forces began an intervention in Syria on Assad’s behalf, using air power to tip the balance in his favor. In Aleppo, the rebel-held territories were completely encircled in mid-2016, leaving 250,000 people under siege and subject to heavy Russian airstrikes. The Russian and Syrian militaries were both accused of war crimes, including deliberately targeting medical facilities, using indiscriminate weapons such as cluster munitions and attempting to starve the city’s population……
"The thing is, Western powers learnt from area bombing. It didn't work, it was wasteful, it was morally wrong in retrospect"
Indeed, have three of four volumes of "The Strategic Air Offensive against Germany 1939-1945" by Sir Charles Webster and Noble Frankland published 1961 which was biffed out of Whenuapai Station Library – RNZAF Command and Staff College Library Book with CANCELLED stamped inside which examines and discusses this very subject.
Vol I issued once in 1995 Vol II issued thrice in 1962; 1972 & 1992 No Vol III and Vol IV issued once in 1976.
One wonders why it is not still a standard text for study!
BTW written in pencil on flyleaf is: Total Price Set of 4 Vols 9 pounds and four shillings. Do hope they got their moneys worth out of them …..
Would love to find Vol III and only paid $12 for the three.
You really love giving me a dose of Dysentery don't you?
Why don't you read up on Russia's guarantees that it signed under the Lisbon Protocol & Budapest Memorandum when Ukraine gave up its Strategic Wpns at the end of the Cold War for Starters.
Then go back to the 1917 through 1925 when the USSR signed a similar Peace Treaty in 1920 or 22 from memory where Russia kept Eastern Ukraine along the Dnipro River. Which it violated in 1925 leading to Holodomor under Stalin.
Then read up what Stalin did to Ukraine after Russia booted the Germans out & it could've a lot more worse if Khrushchev quietly squash some of Stalin Orders.
The Ukrainian's do not & will not trust Russia for the next 1k yrs no matter what what Peace Treaty they sign because Russia can not be Bloody Trust to keep their Bloody Word & will not Negotiate in Good Faith!
Why do you think Finland & Sweden decided to give up their Long Standing Neutrality FFS!!!
Respect to you too Francesca really enjoyed your comments today answering one an all with quiet aplomb inspite of the hubbub very well done and exactly the kind of diplomacy lacking in the general debate imo .
Gotta say it reminds me of a memorable scene from ' One flew over the cuckoos nest ' though …hope you can guess which one !!
There will be no peace, the Russians think they are winning (or at the very least have to win). Well the leadership think they are.
You get the Russian goal is on the West of Ukraine so they will keep going till they have all their strategic points occupied.
Peace might be discussed when the Russians have lost 500,000 troops. Might, they seem hell bent on self genocide at the moment – through throwing away the last generation who could save them as a people. Those who survive this mess are going to be totally FUBAR.
I want this war over, but the idiots are in charge so I see it lasting till the last Russian is left going "can I go home now"
Mr. Sensible kindly gives us a master class in demolishing your own argument in the first two paragraphs of a rather ill thought out opinion piece…
"…The suggestion that the national capital should be shifted from Wellington to Hamilton, on the spurious grounds that the majority of our population lives north of Te Awamutu, is as ludicrous as it would be disastrous.
One of Wellington’s great advantages remains its centrality – as true today as it was in 1865. Indeed, Wellington’s only real competitor in that regard is Nelson…"
Centrality? Over three-quarters of New Zealand's population live in the North Island, with half living north of Lake Rotorua, and one-third of the total population living in the Auckland Region. On the basis of "centrality" surely the Tron is a fantastic idea? I guess he means GEOGRAPHIC centrality – in which case the US should move it's capital to Belle Fourche, South Dakota or the UK should move it's capital to Lancashire – or how about moving the Australian capital to somewhere in the middle of the Simpson desert?
Peter Dunne is a pompous old fool who spouts nonsense.
Irrespective of the pompous prats argument. I hope it carries some sway.
The last thing we need north of Rotorua is that lot. We've got enough idiots of our own up here. It's becoming increasingly harder to fly under the radar these days.
I've always thought that Wellington was a ridiculous place for parliament, it's when not if that place gets leveled by a whopper earthquke(very scientific terminology)
Christchurch would be my pick , Auckland throws its weight around enough with out letting the seat of power any near them
“The busy summer holiday period has highlighted just what an appalling state much of our roading network is in,” Transporting New Zealand chief executive Nick Leggett said.
“It’s not just about road maintenance. We also need the Government to recommit to new roading capacity to ease the strain on our existing network.”
In October 2018 Leggett was appointed the CEO of the Road Transport Forum,[24] a lobby group which promotes and the interests of the trucking road freight industry.[25]
Hi BG. Its an absolute no-brainer. Sadly the NO brainers : think Nat Simeon Brown etc… are getting the media attention. And of course the totally vested interest lobbyists as in Nick Leggett in my link.
IMO KiwiRail…are not really NZ Rail proponents..or even Rail friendly. I really feel Labour should get with re nationalising NZ Rail .And maybe some changes within at the same time (to get a real focus on Rail)
It's never been about protecting Russian speaking people, NATO, or about "'nazis".
It's always been about the eradication of the Ukrainian presence and identity to facilitate a genocidal land grab.
.
Over the next four days, the Kherson Regional Art Museum was cleaned out, witnesses said, with Russian forces “bustling about like insects,” porters wheeling out thousands of paintings, soldiers hastily wrapping them in sheets, art experts barking out orders and packing material flying everywhere.
“They were loading such masterpieces, which there are no more in the world, as if they were garbage,” said the museum’s longtime director, Alina Dotsenko, who recently returned from exile, recounting what employees and witnesses had told her.
When she came back to the museum in early November and grasped how much had been stolen, she said, “I almost lost my mind.”
Kherson. Mariupol. Melitopol. Kakhovsky. Museums of art, history and antiquities.
As Russia has ravaged Ukraine with deadly missile strikes and brutal atrocities on civilians, it has also looted the nation’s cultural institutions of some of the most important and intensely protected contributions of Ukraine and its forebears going back thousands of years.
International art experts say the plundering may be the single biggest collective art heist since the Nazis pillaged Europe in World War II.
Looting is as old as war. So the pearl clutching is a bit rich for someone who supports the war.
The reality is war produces animals out of all who fight them.
But as your a huge supporter of keeping this war going joe90, you have to face up to the reality of the ugly as well: Rape, Looting, Killing of prisoners, and Mass murder of civilians is going to keep happening as long as this war keeps going. Both sides are going to do it.
No one has a monopoly on doing evil shit in war.
We just have to wait until at least 1/2 a million Russian soldiers are dead, before we can get around to peace talks.
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Lynn and I have just returned from a news conference where Hipkins, fresh from visiting a relief centre in Mangere, was repeatedly challenged to justify the extension of subsidies to create more climate emissions when the effects of climate change had just proved so disastrous. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The ...
A new Prime Minister, a revitalised Cabinet, and possibly revised priorities – but is the political and, importantly, economic landscape much different? Certainly some within the news media were excited by the changes which Chris Hipkins announced yesterday or – before the announcement – by the prospect of changes in ...
Currently the government's strategy for reducing transport emissions hinges on boosting vehicle fuel-efficiency, via the clean car standard and clean car discount, and some improvements to public transport. The former has been hugely successful, and has clearly set us on the right path, but its also not enough, and will ...
Buzz from the Beehive Before he announced his Cabinet yesterday, Prime Minister Chris Hipkins announced he would be flying to Australia next week to meet that country’s Prime Minister. And before Kieran McAnulty had time to say “Three Waters” after his promotion to the Local Government portfolio, he was dishing ...
The quarterly labour market statistics were released this morning, showing that unemployment has risen slightly to 3.4%. There are now 99,000 people unemployed - 24,000 fewer than when Labour took office. So, I guess the Reserve Bank's plan to throw people out of work to stop wage rises "inflation", and ...
Another night of heavy rain, flooding, damage to homes, and people worried about where the hell all this water is going to go as we enter day twenty two of rain this year.Honestly if the government can’t sell Three Waters on the back of what has happened with storm water ...
* Dr Bryce Edwards writes – Prime Minister Chris Hipkins continues to be the new broom in Government, re-setting his Government away from its problem areas in his Cabinet reshuffle yesterday, and trying to convince voters that Labour is focused on “bread and butter” issues. The ministers responsible for unpopular ...
Prime Minister Chris Hipkins continues to be the new broom in Government, re-setting his Government away from its problem areas in his Cabinet reshuffle yesterday, and trying to convince voters that Labour is focused on “bread and butter” issues. The ministers responsible for unpopular reforms in water and DHB centralisation ...
Hi,It’s weird to me that in 2023 we still have people falling for multi-level marketing schemes (MLMs for short). There are Netflix documentaries about them, countless articles, and last year we did an Armchaired and Dangerous episode on them.Then you check a ticketing website like EventBrite and see this shit ...
Nanaia Mahuta fell the furthest in the Cabinet reshuffle. Photo: Lynn Grieveson/Getty ImagesTLDR: PM Chris Hipkins unveiled a Cabinet this afternoon he hopes will show wavering voters that a refreshed Labour Government is focused on ‘bread and butter cost of living’ issues, rather than the unpopular, unwieldy and massively centralising ...
Nanaia Mahuta fell the furthest in the Cabinet reshuffle. Photo: Lynn Grieveson/Getty ImagesTLDR: PM Chris Hipkins unveiled a Cabinet this afternoon he hopes will show wavering voters that a refreshed Labour Government is focused on ‘bread and butter cost of living’ issues, rather than the unpopular, unwieldy and massively centralising ...
Shortly, the absolute state of Wayne Brown. But before that, something I wrote four years ago for the council’s own media machine. It was a day-in-the-life profile of their many and varied and quite possibly unnoticed vital services. We went all over Auckland in 48 hours for the story, the ...
Completed reads for January Lilith, by George MacDonald The Rime of the Ancient Mariner (poem), by Samuel Taylor Coleridge Christabel (poem), by Samuel Taylor Coleridge The Saga of Ragnar Lodbrok, by Anonymous The Lay of Kraka (poem), by Anonymous 1066 and All That, by W.C. Sellar and R.J. ...
Pity the poor Brits. They just can’t catch a break. After years of reporting of lying Boris Johnson, a change to a less colourful PM in Rishi Sunak has resulted in a smooth media pivot to an end-of-empire narrative. The New York Times, no less, amplifies suggestions that Blighty ...
On that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened. And rain fell on the earth.Genesis 6:11-12THE TORRENTIAL DOWNPOURS that dumped a record-breaking amount of rain on Auckland this anniversary weekend will reoccur with ever-increasing frequency. The planet’s atmosphere is ...
Buzz from the Beehive There has been plenty to keep the relevant Ministers busy in flood-stricken Auckland over the past day or two. But New Zealand, last time we looked, extends north of Auckland into Northland and south of the Bombay Hills all the way to the bottom of the ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Jeff Masters When early settlers came to the confluence of the Sacramento and American Rivers before the California Gold Rush, Indigenous people warned them that the Sacramento Valley could become an inland sea when great winter rains came. The storytellers described water filling the ...
Wayne Brown managed a smile when meeting with Remuera residents, but he was grumpy about having to deal with “media drongos”. Photo: Lynn Grieveson/Getty ImagesTLDR: In my pick of the news links found in my rounds since 4am for paying subscribers below the paywall:Wayne Brown moans about the media and ...
Wayne Brown managed a smile when meeting with Remuera residents, but he was grumpy about having to deal with “media drongos”. Photo: Lynn Grieveson/Getty ImagesTLDR: In my pick of the news links found in my rounds since 4am for paying subscribers below the paywall:Wayne Brown moans about the media and ...
Dr Bryce Edwards writes – Last night’s opinion polls answered the big question of whether a switch of prime minister would really be a gamechanger for election year. The 1News and Newshub polls released at 6pm gave the same response: the shift from Jacinda Ardern to Chris Hipkins ...
Hipkins’ aim this year will be to present a ‘low target’ for those seeking to attack Labour’s policies and spending. Photo: Lynn Grieveson/Getty ImagesTLDR: Anyone dealing with Government departments and councils who wants some sort of big or long-term decision out of officials or politicians this year should brace for ...
Hipkins’ aim this year will be to present a ‘low target’ for those seeking to attack Labour’s policies and spending. Photo: Lynn Grieveson/Getty ImagesTLDR: Anyone dealing with Government departments and councils who wants some sort of big or long-term decision out of officials or politicians this year should brace for ...
Last night’s opinion polls answered the big question of whether a switch of prime minister would really be a gamechanger for election year. The 1News and Newshub polls released at 6pm gave the same response: the shift from Jacinda Ardern to Chris Hipkins has changed everything, and Labour is back ...
Over the last few years, it’s seemed like city after city around the world has become subject to extreme flooding events that have been made worse by impacts from climate change. We’ve highlighted many of them in our Weekly Roundup series. Sadly, over the last few days it’s been Auckland’s ...
And so the first month of the year draws to a close. It rained in Auckland on 21 out of the 31 days in January. Feels like summer never really happened this year. It’s actually hard to believe there were 10 days that it didn’t rain. Was it any better where ...
A ‘small target’ strategy is not going to cut it anymore if National want to win the upcoming election. The game has changed and the game plan needs to change as well. Jacinda Ardern’s abrupt departure from the 9th floor has the potential to derail what looked to be an ...
Kia ora e te whānau. Today, we mark the anniversary of the signing of Te Tiriti o Waitangi - and our commitment to working in partnership with Māori to deliver better outcomes and tackle the big issues, together. ...
We’ve just announced a massive infrastructure investment to kick-start new housing developments across New Zealand. Through our Infrastructure Acceleration Fund, we’re making sure that critical infrastructure - like pipes, roads and wastewater connections - is in place, so thousands more homes can be built. ...
The Green Party is joining more than 20 community organisations to call for an immediate rent freeze in Tāmaki Makaurau Auckland, after reports of landlords intending to hike rents after flooding. ...
When Chris Hipkins took on the job of Prime Minister, he said bread and butter issues like the cost of living would be the Government’s top priority – and this week, we’ve set out extra support for families and businesses. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to provide direct support to low-income households and to stop subsidising fossil fuels during a climate crisis. ...
The tools exist to help families with surging costs – and as costs continue to rise it is more urgent than ever that we use them, the Green Party says. ...
Foreign Minister Nanaia Mahuta departs for India tomorrow as she continues to reconnect Aotearoa New Zealand to the world. The visit will begin in New Delhi where the Foreign Minister will meet with the Vice President Hon Jagdeep Dhankar and her Indian Government counterparts, External Affairs Minister S. Jaishankar and ...
Over $10 million infrastructure funding to unlock housing in Whangārei The purchase of a 3.279 hectare site in Kerikeri to enable 56 new homes Northland becomes eligible for $100 million scheme for affordable rentals Multiple Northland communities will benefit from multiple Government housing investments, delivering thousands of new homes for ...
A memorial event at a key battle site in the New Zealand land wars is an important event to mark the progress in relations between Māori and the Crown as we head towards Waitangi Day, Minister for Te Arawhiti Kelvin Davis said. The Battle of Ohaeawai in June 1845 saw ...
More Police officers are being deployed to the frontline with the graduation of 54 new constables from the Royal New Zealand Police College today. The graduation ceremony for Recruit Wing 362 at Te Rauparaha Arena in Porirua was the first official event for Stuart Nash since his reappointment as Police ...
The Government is unlocking an additional $700,000 in support for regions that have been badly hit by the recent flooding and storm damage in the upper North Island. “We’re supporting the response and recovery of Auckland, Waikato, Coromandel, Northland, and Bay of Plenty regions, through activating Enhanced Taskforce Green to ...
Prime Minister Chris Hipkins has welcomed the announcement that Her Royal Highness The Princess Royal, Princess Anne, will visit New Zealand this month. “Princess Anne is travelling to Aotearoa at the request of the NZ Army’s Royal New Zealand Corps of Signals, of which she is Colonel in Chief, to ...
A new Government and industry strategy launched today has its sights on growing the value of New Zealand’s horticultural production to $12 billion by 2035, Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor said. “Our food and fibre exports are vital to New Zealand’s economic security. We’re focussed on long-term strategies that build on ...
25 cents per litre petrol excise duty cut extended to 30 June 2023 – reducing an average 60 litre tank of petrol by $17.25 Road User Charge discount will be re-introduced and continue through until 30 June Half price public transport fares extended to the end of June 2023 saving ...
The strong economy has attracted more people into the workforce, with a record number of New Zealanders in paid work and wages rising to help with cost of living pressures. “The Government’s economic plan is delivering on more better-paid jobs, growing wages and creating more opportunities for more New Zealanders,” ...
The Government is providing a further $1 million to the Mayoral Relief Fund to help communities in Auckland following flooding, Minister for Emergency Management Kieran McAnulty announced today. “Cabinet today agreed that, given the severity of the event, a further $1 million contribution be made. Cabinet wishes to be proactive ...
The new Cabinet will be focused on core bread and butter issues like the cost of living, education, health, housing and keeping communities and businesses safe, Prime Minister Chris Hipkins has announced. “We need a greater focus on what’s in front of New Zealanders right now. The new Cabinet line ...
Prime Minister Chris Hipkins will travel to Canberra next week for an in person meeting with Australian Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese. “The trans-Tasman relationship is New Zealand’s closest and most important, and it was crucial to me that my first overseas trip as Prime Minister was to Australia,” Chris Hipkins ...
The Government is providing establishment funding of $100,000 to the Mayoral Relief Fund to help communities in Auckland following flooding, Minister for Emergency Management Kieran McAnulty announced. “We moved quickly to make available this funding to support Aucklanders while the full extent of the damage is being assessed,” Kieran McAnulty ...
As the Mayor of Auckland has announced a state of emergency, the Government, through NEMA, is able to step up support for those affected by flooding in Auckland. “I’d urge people to follow the advice of authorities and check Auckland Emergency Management for the latest information. As always, the Government ...
Ka papā te whatitiri, Hikohiko ana te uira, wāhi rua mai ana rā runga mai o Huruiki maunga Kua hinga te māreikura o te Nota, a Titewhai Harawira Nā reira, e te kahurangi, takoto, e moe Ka mōwai koa a Whakapara, kua uhia te Tai Tokerau e te kapua pōuri ...
Carmel Sepuloni, Minister for Social Development and Employment, has activated Enhanced Taskforce Green (ETFG) in response to flooding and damaged caused by Cyclone Hale in the Tairāwhiti region. Up to $500,000 will be made available to employ job seekers to support the clean-up. We are still investigating whether other parts ...
The 2023 General Election will be held on Saturday 14 October 2023, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced today. “Announcing the election date early in the year provides New Zealanders with certainty and has become the practice of this Government and the previous one, and I believe is best practice,” Jacinda ...
Jacinda Ardern has announced she will step down as Prime Minister and Leader of the Labour Party. Her resignation will take effect on the appointment of a new Prime Minister. A caucus vote to elect a new Party Leader will occur in 3 days’ time on Sunday the 22nd of ...
Sure, Scotty Morrison’s Māori At Work is a wonderful resource for Aotearoa’s collective te reo Māori journey. But is it judgemental enough for the modern office environment?First published September 12 2019 The growing strength of te reo is palpable across Aotearoa, with record numbers of people participating in Mahuru ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jane Mills, Professor and Dean La Trobe Rural Health School, La Trobe University Shutterstock It can be tough to access front-line health care outside the cities and suburbs. For the seven million Australians living in rural communities there are significant ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Donald Rothwell, Professor of International Law, Australian National University Chad Fish/AP Was the balloon that suddenly appeared over the US last week undertaking surveillance? Or was it engaging in research, as China has claimed? While the answers to these ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Brendan Walker-Munro, Senior Research Fellow, The University of Queensland Shutterstock The generative AI industry will be worth about A$22 trillion by 2030, according to the CSIRO. These systems – of which ChatGPT is currently the best known – can write ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Doug Drury, Professor/Head of Aviation, CQUniversity Australia Shutterstock When booking a flight, do you ever think about which seat will protect you the most in an emergency? Probably not. Most people book seats for comfort, such as leg room, ...
Prime Minister Chris Hipkins has described this morning's Waitangi dawn service as moving and says he welcomes the shift away from a focus on politics. ...
Screenwriter Dana Leaming’s debut comedy series Not Even is out now on Prime and Neon. This is the out the gate story of how it got there.Kia ora, Hi, What up? Up to? U up? …I’m Dana. I wrote and co-directed (with Ainsley Gardiner) the TV show Not Even ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adrian Beaumont, Election Analyst (Psephologist) at The Conversation; and Honorary Associate, School of Mathematics and Statistics, The University of Melbourne Mick Tsikas/AAP A federal Newspoll, conducted February 1-4 from a sample of 1,512, gave Labor a 55-45 lead, unchanged on ...
The Human Rights Commission, Te Kāhui Tika Tangata, last week released two reports on racism and the impact of colonialism in Aotearoa. Among their many insights was the necessity of a wider understanding of how racism manifests itself. I was honoured to accept an invitation by Te Kāhui Tika Tangata ...
Vincent O’Malley reviews a history of the battle of Gate Pā.First published February 5, 2019 Head up Cameron Road, one of Tauranga’s main arterial routes, a few kilometres out of the city centre and you drive over one of New Zealand’s most important historical sites. The road, named after ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Murray Goot, Emeritus Professor of Politics and International Relations, Macquarie University Support for embedding an Indigenous Voice to parliament in the Constitution has fallen. The polls provide good evidence once you work out how to find it. However, the voters who have ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Doug Drury, Professor/Head of Aviation, CQUniversity Australia Shutterstock When booking a flight, do you ever think about which seat will protect you the most in an emergency? Probably not. Most people book seats for comfort, such as leg room, or ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Libby Rumpff, Senior Research Fellow, The University of Melbourne David Crosling/AAP The Black Summer bushfires of 2019-20 were cataclysmic: a landmark in Australia’s environmental history. They burnt more than 10 million hectares, mostly forests in southeast Australia. Many of our most ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Christine Grové, Fulbright Scholar and Adjunct Senior Lecturer, Monash University Anete Lusina/Pexels School attendance levels in Australia are a massive issue according to Education Minister Jason Clare. As he told reporters last week, he hopes to talk to state colleagues ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Marion Terrill, Transport and Cities Program Director, Grattan Institute Revising the generous fuel tax credits given to businesses should be a priority for the Albanese government, because keeping them would conflict with two other pressing priorities: reducing carbon emissions and repairing the ...
For nine years he steered the ship he built, but last week Duncan Greive announced his surprise resignation as CEO of The Spinoff. He joins guest host, Jane Yee, to discuss how doing things differently took The Spinoff from an irreverent TV blog to a respected online magazine, and why ...
Three decades ago one of the giants of New Zealand thinking and writing, Ranginui Walker, published Ka Whawhai Tonu Mātou, Struggle Without End. The book, originally released in 1990 and revised in 2004, is a history of Aotearoa from a Māori perspective. It had a profound influence and today remains ...
Health inequities between Pākehā and Māori are often framed as complex and difficult to change. But making access to GPs and dentists free will not only save money for whānau using these services, it will also save money for the health system and ensure Māori rights to good governance and equity ...
One of New Zealand's most promising fast bowlers, Molly Penfold, was surprised to get the call-up for the T20 World Cup, but she has a great support team around her, Merryn Anderson reports. She's only played one T20 for the White Ferns, and she's yet to take a wicket, but Molly ...
Labour and National’s leaders came to Waitangi agreed on which areas need more investment in election year. But as political editor Jo Moir writes, the country is going to see a big debate on how Māori should benefit from it Prime Minister Chris Hipkins used his speech at Sunday’s pōwhiri ...
A review for Waitangi weekend The bestselling novel Kāwai: For Such a Time as This by Monty Soutar feels like the story Matua Monty has been working toward telling his entire life. It aims for the loftiest mountain peak in a valiant attempt at the fabled Great New Zealand ...
Unfortunately the great flood of January 27 was not a one-off but a precursor to more emergencies likely to strike the city because of environmental effects of climate change. While the Auckland floods are proving devastating, costly and far-reaching, they have also had the strange effect of revealing Tamaki Makaurau's original landscape. ...
Securing the right to housing will require us to challenge the very systems and ideologies that are doing such harm to our planet.Opinion: The images of rivers running down our streets, cars floating down the motorway, houses flooded and half-submerged buses ferrying people across the causeway, will stick with ...
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It is hard to separate the politics from Waitangi, but the day party leaders were welcomed on to Te Whare Rūnanga was largely free of inflammatory rhetoric and political point scoring. ...
Rheive Grey pays tribute to one political party’s unapologetic commitment to markers of Māori identity, from hei tiki to waiata to tikitiki. I’m proud to be Māori. If you’re like me, it’s hard to read that sentence without singing it in your head. That’s either the power of good campaigning, ...
When I was a man my dick was only average size, but learning how to tuck it out of sight is a steep learning curve for a girl on a budget. The Sunday Essay is made possible thanks to the support of Creative New Zealand.Illustrations: Sloane Hong The dick ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Martin, Visiting Fellow, Crawford School of Public Policy, Australian National University Wes Mountain/The Conversation, CC BY-ND Australia’s Reserve Bank is set to push up rates once again at its first meeting for the year on Tuesday, according to all but ...
By David Robie When Papuan journalist Victor Mambor visited New Zealand almost nine years ago, he impressed student journalists from the Pacific Media Centre and community activists with his refreshing candour and courage. As the founder of the Jubi news media group, he remained defiant that he would tell the ...
Today, Te Pāti Māori officially announced Mariameno Kapa-Kingi as their candidate for the Te Tai Tokerau electorate in this year’s General Election. The announcement was part of the pōwhiri for MPs at Te Whare Rūnanga o Waitangi. “Making the announcement ...
Paul Diamond’s book about the 1920s scandal that shocked Whanganui is on the longlist for the Ockhams (in the hotly contested General Non-Fiction category). Victor Rodger reviews. A closeted mayor with huge ambitions. A handsome, young, returned soldier with ambiguous motivations.A scandalous shooting that leads to a spectacular ...
An easy, low sugar jam that tastes even better than the sickly-sweet stuff. Often jam recipes call for much more sugar that I think is necessary, resulting in a cloyingly sweet jam whose flavour sadly becomes lost. Where some recipes will call for equal measures of fruit and sugar, this ...
Two reports on racism in New Zealand released by the Human Rights Commission land at a time when political rhetoric around racism is escalating again. Aaron Smale reports. The Human Rights Commission has released two reports that make a number of significant recommendations for confronting white supremacy and institutional racism. But ...
Professor John Morgan offers a 'lesson plan' for Auckland children returning to school to help them understand what's going on in their city after the floods When Auckland schools go back, there’s a case to be made that geography teachers take over lessons for a day or two. Auckland’s ‘state of emergency’ ...
An acoustic 'harassment' device won’t be used to keep dolphins from high-speed boats, reports David Williams. Organisers of a super-fast boat race have scrapped plans to use an underwater noise device to scare dolphins in a marine mammal sanctuary. SailGP’s consultants, Enviser, lodged an application with the Department of Conservation (DoC) ...
Flooding and land slides at her home in Titirangi have Zoe Hawkins sleeping in her running gear in case she has to flee. She shares her concern for others even more affected - and questions what the future brings. A week ago we lived on the edge of paradise. Our forever home ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Enshrining a constitutional Voice to parliament will bring better practical outcomes and give the best chance for Closing the Gap, Prime Minister Anthony Albanese will say in a major address on the referendum on Sunday. ...
By Jamie Tahana, RNZ News Te Ao Māori journalist at Waitangi, and Russell Palmer, digital political journalist Iwi leaders in Aotearoa New Zealand have accused opposition parties National and ACT of “fanning the flames of racism”, urging the prime minister to be brave and not walk away from partnership on Three ...
By Phoebe Gwangilo in Port Moresby Higher Education Minister Don Polye has condemned a decision by the administration of the University of Papua New Guinea to treat a PNG-born and bred grade 12 school leaver as an “international” student. Roselyn Alog, 19, whose parents are Filipinos, was born and raised ...
RNZ Pacific Fiji’s former Elections Supervisor Mohammed Saneem is under investigation by the country’s anti-corruption agency for alleged abuse of office and has been stopped from fleeing the country. The Fijian Elections Office (FEO) said Saneem was alleged to have “on numerous occasions . . . unlawfully authorised payments of ...
Labour's position has alternated over the past few days: first Prime Minister Chris Hipkins would speak, then he wouldn't, and then he would again. ...
Te Pāti Māori Co-leaders Rawiri Waititi and Debbie Ngarewa-Packer are announcing a transformative defence and foreign affairs policy which asserts the Mana Māori Motuhake and Tino Rangatiratanga of tangata whenua in Aotearoa at their Party’s ...
The Prime Minister will no longer speak at Waitangi commemorations after the organising trust moved the political leaders to a panel away from the main event The Waitangi National Trust wrote to political parties last month saying they didn’t want political leaders to speak at the pōwhiri held on the eve ...
The Prime Minister once again has a speaking slot at the pōwhiri in Waitangi after earlier on Saturday saying he would respect the wishes of the trust organisers by not doing so The Waitangi National Trust has given the green light for Chris Hipkins and other political leaders to speak ...
It’s been exactly a decade since Seven Sharp first appeared on our screens. Remember the first episode? We’ve unearthed the tapes. On this day in 2013, a bombshell was thrown into the New Zealand television landscape. “Time for us to make way, because you’re here to see what everyone’s talking ...
MetService meteorologist Lewis Ferris has fronted endless media requests and live crosses this week. Is he getting it right? Lewis Ferris is trying to find his weather map. “This week’s been so insane” he mutters as he closes multiple tabs on the three screens across his Wellington desk. He’s ...
After four years, executive director Max Tweedie has stepped down from Auckland Pride. He tells Sam Brooks about shepherding the festival through a tumultuous few years, and where he’s going from here.This year’s Auckland Pride Festival is set to be the biggest one yet. Over the course of more ...
A flailing mayor was only the public face of a multifaceted flooding communications failure. Duncan Greive examines the mess, and asks what can be done to improve it.It’s a chilling timeline. Stuff’s Kelly Dennett catalogued, beat-by-beat, the 12 hours in which Auckland was pummelled by a catastrophic deluge, interspersing ...
The Dunedin branch of the Green Party has selected Francisco Hernandez as its candidate for the Dunedin electorate in this year’s general election. Francisco Hernandez was the Otago University Students Association President in 2013. He has held a number ...
Waitangi organisers are trying to push political leaders to the side at Sunday's pōwhiri, but Labour's deputy leader says it's not for them to decide who speaks. Te Tai Tokerau MP and Labour’s deputy leader, Kelvin Davis, says the Prime Minister will speak at Sunday’s pōwhiri at Waitangi, in defiance of local ...
Every weekday, The Detail makes sense of the big news stories. This week, we spoke to an aid worker who had made the trip to the war zone in Ukraine, looked at why Carmel Sepuloni was picked to be the new deputy prime minister, visited the flood-torn streets of Titirangi in West ...
Schools play an integral but often unrecognised and unacknowledged role in helping communities respond to and recover from disastersOpinion: Schools in Auckland and other flood-affected areas are about to re-open after a delayed start to the new school year. Students will return to school having experienced wide-ranging impacts. While some ...
A very short story for Waitangi weekend The pā is a lonely place nowadays. Gorse has marched on it like the British troops of old, consuming the hills and leaving the marae looking a bald patch on the head of the earth mother herself. Even the roads have worn thin, ...
This is The Detail's Long Read - one in-depth story read by us every weekend. This week, it's The School Away From School written by Bill Morris and published in NZ Geographic's January/February 2023 issue. You can find the entire article, with photos from Lottie Hedley, on the NZ Geographic website. One hundred years since its ...
COMMENTARY:By Kayt Davies in Perth I wasn’t good at French in my final year of high school. My classmates had five years of language studies behind them. I had three. As a result of my woeful grip on the language, I wrote a terribly bad essay in my final ...
RNZ Pacific Journalist Victor Mambor, who is the chief editor of the West Papuan newspaper and websiteJubi, has received the Oktovianus Pogau Award from the Indonesian-based Pantau Foundation for courage in journalism. The foundation’s Andreas Harsono said Mambor’s decision to return to his father’s homeland and defend the rights ...
RNZ News Green Party MP Chlöe Swarbrick is brushing off concerns a temporary rent freeze in flood-hit Auckland would just see landlords hike rents even more when the controls were lifted — arguing they should stay permanently. More than 20 organisations have signed a letter urging Minister for Auckland Michael ...
Iwi leaders have accused National and ACT of "fanning the flames of racism", urging the prime minister to be brave and not walk away from partnership on three waters. ...
About this time last week it had become apparent that Auckland was in for a bit more than just a wet Friday. While the state of emergency remains in place for another seven days, it appears the worst should now be behind us. Last night, Niwa shared a fascinating thread ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Hawkins, Senior Lecturer, Canberra School of Politics, Economics and Society, University of Canberra ShutterstockIndigenous Australians are respectfully advised that the following includes the names and images of some people who are now deceased. The Reserve Bank of Australia ...
The government has confirmed the money will be spent in Northland, including unlocking greenfields land and transport upgrades like a new bridge in Kamo. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Gabrielle Appleby, Professor, UNSW Law School, UNSW Sydney Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has confirmed that sometime between August and November this year, the Australian people will go to a referendum for the first time since 1999. We’ll be asked whether we support ...
Viewers across the United States were today shown a slice of New Zealand, with a reporter for Good Morning America broadcasting live from Rotorua. Robin Roberts, a co-anchor for the popular morning TV show, has been touring the country this week. During her visit to Rotorua’s Te Puia centre, she ...
They can be environmentally unsound and are a symbol used to shame millennials, but everyone still loves an avo. I love avocados, always have, always will. The buttery golden-green flesh from a perfectly ripe avocado is a culinary blessing. Today I’d love to simply wax poetic about twisting open a ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1The Creative Act: A Way of Being by Rick Rubin (Penguin Press, $50) The beautiful ...
A new poem by Robin Peace. To the kahikatea I see from my bed Thinking inside the square, the ellipse, the round of what life is, I only see the trees. Not only as if that were the only thing I see, but only as if the tree matters more. ...
A week ago, Elton John’s first Auckland show was called off at the last minute. What was it like getting there, being there, and trying to return home afterwards?Elton John has long been a blessing for our ears, but in recent years his Auckland shows have been cursed. His ...
How is peace with Russia possible when they do this sort of thing?
Dunno.
What are the precedents?
Dresden firebombing killing 25,000 people in WW2 ,perpetrated by joint US/UK airforce
Tokyo napalm firebombing killing 100,000 in single night , perpetrated by the USairforce in WW2
Napalm bombing in Vietnam
Ditto Korea, reducing the Koreans in the north to living underground
More recently Raqqa 1,600 civilians killed
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/coalition-strikes-killed-1600-civilians-raqqa-report/story?id=62629765
Mosul
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/press-release/2017/04/bombed-in-their-homes-civilians-in-mosul-blame-reckless-coalition-forces/
How can we bear to consider these people our allies?
By practising selective morality aka calculating where our economic interests lie
What about your whataboutism?
This is a despicable attack by Russia and whatabouting doesn't make it any less so.
TSmithfield asked how was peace possible when Russia does things like this ?
I responded by saying we have apparently come to an easy accomodation with allies who do things far more egregious than this:examples given, and somehow a peace was found.
Result? very predictable cries about "whataboutism" Frankly guys, that is worn out and lacking any kind of credible argument
Once again you will shriek Russian propaganda!! when I post this next link
https://www.rt.com/russia/569890-ukraine-missile-fell-dnepr/
Even if it is true that the Ukrainians shot down a Russian missile (how dreadful of them), how does that change anything?
After all, the Russians were targeting the Ukrainian power grid in this attack, amongst other things. That sort of action in the freezing conditions now prevailing in Ukraine could even have a worse effect in terms of human suffering.
The Russians are very aware of the suffering they are likely to cause one way or another with this sort of behaviour targeting civilian infrastructure. So, in no way does anything you say justify the Russian action.
The fact that you cite RT just confirms our suspicions about you.
Oh Smithfield !
I did have a laugh at the idea of "our" suspicions
OK then. I will ask you directly
Are you employed by a troll factory?
Yes or No
Yes Jenny , its hugely profitable, I've made 3000 roubles a month at least, and have a time share in fabulous dachas in Crimea.There's never any difficulty getting the money sent over either, it comes packed in those Russian dolls
Oh the stories I could tell you !Dancing with Putin at my wedding, the fun!,the singing! the barbecues at the Kremlin, the chess games with Lavrov !
And no one has ever found me out (but there are those who've had their dark suspicions!)
Until now!
Clever Jenny!
Yes or No
"Many a true word is spoken in jest" James Joyce
Whether or not you work for a Russian troll farm, or not is irrelevant really. The way you slurp up to the Russian war machine, the effect is the same.
Well let's face it. Your continued appeasement for Russian atrocities does sound very much like the mantra of a useful idiot (and I use those words carefully as I was well aquainted with one in the 1960's who pestered my father relentlessly with Soviet propaganda). I know how they operated and what their belief systems were. They were totally down the rabbit hole of Soviet lies and misinformation regularly sent to them from the Russian consulate as it was then.
My father was the President of a Union for over 20 years so they were particularly keen to get him on their side and ferment trouble. They didn't like the fact that he ignored them, and instead the Union was able to gain very good pay rates and working conditions for the members of his union without the need for constant strikes and stop works. On one occasion a National Party MP was heard to say in the House how appalled he was that these workers were earning almost as much as he!
If only those pesky Ukrainians would see just how benign and helpful these continued bombardments form Russia are, and stop trying to shoot them down. Everything would be much so much better.
Like Russia murdering = moral, west murdering = immoral. Got it.
It says a lot about you that you can brush off the horror of this situation with some sort of wierd whataboutism justification of it.
But, putting that aside, why would the people of Ukraine be the slightest bit interested in doing any sort of peace deal with Russia when Russia behaves like this? Especially since the horror of this situation will likely just motivate the west to supply more and heavier weapons to Ukraine, thus increasing the likelihood of a Ukrainian victory.
If you really want to see a peaceful resolution to this conflict then you should be condemning this sort of behaviour not excusing it.
Quite right, Fransesca.
Likewise, the siege of Constantinople in 1451 was a particularly brutal affair.
And what about those nasty Romans sowing salt on the ruins of Carthage in 145BCE – there are plenty of examples which can be used to excuse present day barbarity.
But it still remains barbarity!
Once again , you miss the point
Peace is possible .,it has to be .Vietnam has apparently forgiven the genocidal assaults of the Vietnam war, or as they call it , the Resistance war against America
In the face of our own barbarity, it seems we forgive and forget very easily
Where is the consistency?
Why aren’t we arming the Palestinians and applying sanctions to Israel, not that I would recommend that
War is disgusting, and should be avoided at all costs, peace agreements implemented, but there are precious few anti war activists left anywhere in the west , not when so many livelihoods are dependent on war and other people get to do the bloodshedding
Anything is "possible''. But this sort of action by the Russians makes peace a much more difficult outcome to achieve.
So, as I said before, if you really want to see a peaceful resolution to this conflict, you should be condemning this sort of action.
Do you condemn it?
So, as I said before, I condemn war , because this is the sort of barbaric shit that happens in war .(see numerous examples I have given)
Do you condemn war?
Of course I condemn "war''.
What I don't condemn is people wanting to defend their country, homes, and families against unwarranted agression from larger nations. So, in this case, I condemn war by condemning Russia.
But, I guess you will just say the Russians are acting in "self defence" or that the US did it therefore Russia can do it, or something equally inane.
Further to that, "condemning war" in the way that you would have it in this conflict would mean allowing the Russian army to roll in with its tanks uncontested and Ukraine capitulating in order to avoid war.
Am I correct in that interpretation?
No , you're not
I've already said it .The war could have been prevented .The Minsk peace agreements signed between the LPR, DPR, and Ukraine was a path to peace, but as Poroshenko boasted, there was never any intention of implementing it , and the plan was to take Donbas by force
No negotiations , no compromise
Well then , you would approve the Donbas people of resisting attack by Western Ukraine , since 2014, only I've never heard that from you
"…Well then , you would approve the Donbas people of resisting attack by Western Ukraine , since 2014, only I've never heard that from you…"
A bizarre statement. Where is this "Western Ukraine" you speak? I can't find it on a map.
The Donbas is legally part of the Ukraine, like Crimea.
Then you have no understanding of why there is such tension between the eastern provinces (formerly Russian territory which Ukraine expanded into under Lenin in the 20's)mainly orthodox and culturally Russian , and the western parts, where you are more likely to encounter monuments to Nazi collaborators like Bandera , and more likely to belong to the Ukrainian Greek Catholic church
Here is a small primer for you
https://www.timesofisrael.com/ukraine-divided-over-legacy-of-nazi-fighters/
Your modus operandi is to go around and round in circles repeating the same nonsense that has already been debunked many times.
It has already been pointed out on numerous occasions that the far right only got around 2% of the vote in the last Ukrainian election. So, it obviously isn't much more of a problem than most countries.
If you are really that vexed about Nazis, then you should be really worried about Nazis in Russia. Especially as it appears Putin has been trying to manipulate them for his own ends, as the article points out.
From the link:
“What has received less coverage is the Putin regime’s own record of collaboration with far-right extremists.”
It is not at all clear who was attacking who in that conflict, especially considering it wasn't only rebel Ukrainians involved. But also, large numbers of Russians, including Russian special forces.
So, it looks more like a continuation of Russian agression following the annexation of Crimea than anything else.
Does the name Igor Girkin mean anything to you. Pity about that Malaysian passenger plane that was shot down. But I guess you would blame the Ukrainians for that as well.
Yes, Igor Girkin aka Strelkov, a nationalist and a nutter, banned from eastern Ukraine by Putin,and ever since a strident critic of Putin , because he thinks Putin is a softie and appeaser of the west.
You're really drifting here
You obviously didn't read the link very well.
He has only become critical of Putin over recent times. And was actually quite popular prior to the downing of the Malaysian plane which was terminal for his career.
From the previous link:
"Peace is possible .,it has to be .Vietnam has apparently forgiven the genocidal assaults of the Vietnam war,…." Francesca.
Only when and after the US imperialists were driven out.
Did you forget that part?
groan the Dresden and Tokyo attacks were 80 years ago now, Korea three quarters of a century ago and Rolling Thunder for all it's tonnage of bombs dropped was not an area bombing offensive. This sort of tedious whatabboutism is mired in a miserable ignorance of the last eighty years.
The thing is, targets like Dresden and Tokyo (and Hamburg) were attacked using incendiaries for the simple reason the attackers couldn't hit the particular but they could hit the general. In other words, the Allied night bombers could find, hit and set fire to a city easily but they couldn't hit a specific target within the city at all. The US bombing of Vietnam COULD hit specific targets, which is why the Vietnamese didn't bother to claim the Americans were engaging in indiscriminate terror attacks on civilians.
Western military thought no longer embraces area bombing because it doesn't work. It is wasteful of resources and it doesn't achieve it's supposed primary goal – the destruction of the enemies means and will to fight. A primary military consideration is are the means conmensurate with the ways and the ends? The UK devoted between 35-40% of it's total wartime output in WW2 to the construction of lavishly equipped heavy bombers, yet this force was frightfully vulnerable German nightfighters right to the end of the war and the heavy losses in bomber crews were inflicted on the best and brightest young men of the era. So, area bombing cost the UK more than it did Germany. Now that isn't to say such bombing doesn't achieve secondary objectives. The use of area bombing forces the enemy to disperse their industry, which is disruptive. It forces the diversion of resources into air defenses (in WW2 the Germans deployed thousands of large AA guns, fighters etc etc and air defense consumed almost all the output of Germany's electronics industry). Finally, the way the ends were achieved have ultimately become an issue. While area bombing has some justification, it is morally questionable, to say the least. Bombing civilians because otherwise you'd have all this expensive stuff sitting around doing not much is as bad morally and it is bad militarily.
Ultimately, the big lesson of WW2 was what WORKED was using strategic bombing to achieve a specific strategic aim. Thus, the "transport plan", or the attacks on the German canal system, or were the Americans would send 1000 USAAF heavy bombers (escorted by 1000 Mustang and Thunderbolt fighters) to carry out precision daylight bombing of vital targets as "bait" to force the Germans to send up their fighters, were they were engaged in a huge battle of attrition that the United States was always going to win handily via the application of Lanchester's equation. That is why now the west relies on precision guided weapons. Why would you bomb an entire city with 1000 bombers when all you want to do is destroy a tank factory?
The thread of logic that links Russia's missile attacks on the Ukraine with area bombing is the Russians are now no longer particularly interested in hitting the target they are aiming their wildly inaccurate Kh-22 and S300 missiles at. Just like destroying anything of military significance was a bonus of area bombing rather than the aim, so Russia regards actually hitting something they aim at and causing a militarily significant outcome as a bonus. The aim is an airborne expression of splenetic state terrorism at the temerity of the Ukrainians to resist and a brutal and cruel desire to inflict suffering on the Ukrainian civilian population.
The thing is, Western powers learnt from area bombing. It didn't work, it was wasteful, it was morally wrong in retrospect. They don't do it anymore. Russia, it seems, is not interested in these insights. They've learnt nothing and forgotten nothing from the human catastrophes of the mid 20th century.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
The Western powers learnt not to area bomb?Or do you mean aerial?
What planet are you on ?
Iraq, Libya,Syria, Somalia,Afghanistan,Vietnam, Laos,Cambodia,Serbia.
And from the Progressive
https://progressive.org/latest/usa-bombs-drop-benjamin-davies-220112/
If you think the US has any morality whatsoever in its foreign policy …"morally wrong in retrospect"… come on , there's not really a discussion here
The Western powers learnt not to area bomb? Or do you mean aerial?
You seem a bit lacking in some key understandings when it comes to being informed on what you are pontificating on about.
Any degree of comprehensive general knowledge should be familiar with the term area bombing. Here is the entry in Wikipedia. Avail yourself of some new knowledge.
Thanks, I did know, I just couldn't believe you thought the US had given up bombing residential areas , urban areas
I repeat Mosul, Raqqa
"If you think the US has any morality whatsoever in its foreign policy …"morally wrong in retrospect"… come on , there's not really a discussion here…" Francesca
I don't think US foreign policy has any morality whatsoever. From the Halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli, and everything in between, the nature and the crimes of American imperialism are well documented.
Every imperialism is racist and genocidal, it is the very nature of imperialism.
Biden calls the Russian Federation imperialist. Putin calls the U.S imperialist. What they both have in common is that they both don't want it known that they are both imperialists.
All imperialists are racist, how else can they claim they have the right to invade and take over and run other people's countries unless they believe those people are inferior.
All imperialists are genocidal, how else can can an imperialist nation put down an insurgent people, who refuse to submit. As one US general once said in Vietnam 'We had to destroy the village to save it"
Genocide is destroying the village to save it writ large
If the Russian imperialists did take their cue from the American imperialists, the student has become the master.
"The thing is, Western powers learnt from area bombing. It didn't work, it was wasteful, it was morally wrong in retrospect"
Indeed, have three of four volumes of "The Strategic Air Offensive against Germany 1939-1945" by Sir Charles Webster and Noble Frankland published 1961 which was biffed out of Whenuapai Station Library – RNZAF Command and Staff College Library Book with CANCELLED stamped inside which examines and discusses this very subject.
Vol I issued once in 1995 Vol II issued thrice in 1962; 1972 & 1992 No Vol III and Vol IV issued once in 1976.
One wonders why it is not still a standard text for study!
BTW written in pencil on flyleaf is: Total Price Set of 4 Vols 9 pounds and four shillings. Do hope they got their moneys worth out of them …..
Would love to find Vol III and only paid $12 for the three.
FFS,
You really love giving me a dose of Dysentery don't you?
Why don't you read up on Russia's guarantees that it signed under the Lisbon Protocol & Budapest Memorandum when Ukraine gave up its Strategic Wpns at the end of the Cold War for Starters.
Then go back to the 1917 through 1925 when the USSR signed a similar Peace Treaty in 1920 or 22 from memory where Russia kept Eastern Ukraine along the Dnipro River. Which it violated in 1925 leading to Holodomor under Stalin.
Then read up what Stalin did to Ukraine after Russia booted the Germans out & it could've a lot more worse if Khrushchev quietly squash some of Stalin Orders.
The Ukrainian's do not & will not trust Russia for the next 1k yrs no matter what what Peace Treaty they sign because Russia can not be Bloody Trust to keep their Bloody Word & will not Negotiate in Good Faith!
Why do you think Finland & Sweden decided to give up their Long Standing Neutrality FFS!!!
Because they no longer Bloody Trust Russia FFS!!!
I think we'll let you have the last word Scud.Probably the only one amongst us who's been in the thick of it
Respect
To obtain some understanding – if this is what you aim for – read Bloodlands by Timothy Snyder – of what both Stalin and Hitler did to Ukraine.
The Ukrainians, for damn good reason, will never trust the Russians!
Respect to you too Francesca really enjoyed your comments today answering one an all with quiet aplomb inspite of the hubbub very well done and exactly the kind of diplomacy lacking in the general debate imo .
Gotta say it reminds me of a memorable scene from ' One flew over the cuckoos nest ' though …hope you can guess which one !!
regards
Cheers Weston !
I appreciate it
There will be no peace, the Russians think they are winning (or at the very least have to win). Well the leadership think they are.
You get the Russian goal is on the West of Ukraine so they will keep going till they have all their strategic points occupied.
Peace might be discussed when the Russians have lost 500,000 troops. Might, they seem hell bent on self genocide at the moment – through throwing away the last generation who could save them as a people. Those who survive this mess are going to be totally FUBAR.
I want this war over, but the idiots are in charge so I see it lasting till the last Russian is left going "can I go home now"
Mr. Sensible kindly gives us a master class in demolishing your own argument in the first two paragraphs of a rather ill thought out opinion piece…
"…The suggestion that the national capital should be shifted from Wellington to Hamilton, on the spurious grounds that the majority of our population lives north of Te Awamutu, is as ludicrous as it would be disastrous.
One of Wellington’s great advantages remains its centrality – as true today as it was in 1865. Indeed, Wellington’s only real competitor in that regard is Nelson…"
Centrality? Over three-quarters of New Zealand's population live in the North Island, with half living north of Lake Rotorua, and one-third of the total population living in the Auckland Region. On the basis of "centrality" surely the Tron is a fantastic idea? I guess he means GEOGRAPHIC centrality – in which case the US should move it's capital to Belle Fourche, South Dakota or the UK should move it's capital to Lancashire – or how about moving the Australian capital to somewhere in the middle of the Simpson desert?
Peter Dunne is a pompous old fool who spouts nonsense.
Irrespective of the pompous prats argument. I hope it carries some sway.
The last thing we need north of Rotorua is that lot. We've got enough idiots of our own up here. It's becoming increasingly harder to fly under the radar these days.
I've always thought that Wellington was a ridiculous place for parliament, it's when not if that place gets leveled by a whopper earthquke(very scientific terminology)
Christchurch would be my pick , Auckland throws its weight around enough with out letting the seat of power any near them
Would hazzard a guess that Christchurch – nay the entire South Island – would not want them and make that quite plain
No. Too conservative and lacking real diversity.
Hmmm. Nick …Leggett. Who he?
Aha….
So…apart from being a Nat…he also represents a major cause of the road damage problem. Egg.
Yep. Follow the dollars pretty much always demonstrates the validity of these guys statements.
It always amazes me how many "ceo's" of this or that lobby group there are in every sphere of our society.
Once again, follow the dollars. Cynicism is my new mantra.
Agreed Psyc.
I have posted a couple of times before on TS how trucks cause almost 1000 (one thousand) times the damage to roads compared with a family saloon.
Invest in rail is the obvious way out
Hi BG. Its an absolute no-brainer. Sadly the NO brainers : think Nat Simeon Brown etc… are getting the media attention. And of course the totally vested interest lobbyists as in Nick Leggett in my link.
IMO KiwiRail…are not really NZ Rail proponents..or even Rail friendly. I really feel Labour should get with re nationalising NZ Rail .And maybe some changes within at the same time (to get a real focus on Rail)
Youve probably seen these, but..
Also I have always kept this ..Rail…but also Coastal Shipping ! (FYI its a PDF..but very useful : )
He used to be the Labour mayor of Porirua. “Insert imprecation here.”
It's never been about protecting Russian speaking people, NATO, or about "'nazis".
It's always been about the eradication of the Ukrainian presence and identity to facilitate a genocidal land grab.
.
Over the next four days, the Kherson Regional Art Museum was cleaned out, witnesses said, with Russian forces “bustling about like insects,” porters wheeling out thousands of paintings, soldiers hastily wrapping them in sheets, art experts barking out orders and packing material flying everywhere.
“They were loading such masterpieces, which there are no more in the world, as if they were garbage,” said the museum’s longtime director, Alina Dotsenko, who recently returned from exile, recounting what employees and witnesses had told her.
When she came back to the museum in early November and grasped how much had been stolen, she said, “I almost lost my mind.”
Kherson. Mariupol. Melitopol. Kakhovsky. Museums of art, history and antiquities.
As Russia has ravaged Ukraine with deadly missile strikes and brutal atrocities on civilians, it has also looted the nation’s cultural institutions of some of the most important and intensely protected contributions of Ukraine and its forebears going back thousands of years.
International art experts say the plundering may be the single biggest collective art heist since the Nazis pillaged Europe in World War II.
https://archive.li/kriwg (nyt)
Looting is as old as war. So the pearl clutching is a bit rich for someone who supports the war.
The reality is war produces animals out of all who fight them.
But as your a huge supporter of keeping this war going joe90, you have to face up to the reality of the ugly as well: Rape, Looting, Killing of prisoners, and Mass murder of civilians is going to keep happening as long as this war keeps going. Both sides are going to do it.
No one has a monopoly on doing evil shit in war.
We just have to wait until at least 1/2 a million Russian soldiers are dead, before we can get around to peace talks.