Open mike 16/03/2024

40 comments on “Open mike 16/03/2024 ”

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1. Ad 1

   16 March 2024 at 8:44 am

   I used to be appalled that Hipkins continues to deliberately avoid leading anything like an opposition against this government.

   And I used to despair at the inability of the opposition parties to effectively unify their attack on anything.

   But after this week, it's simply clear that they just can't. Greens and Labour are weak and unstable. TPM are terrible in the House.

   Each party will take a year if not longer to regather enough skill and capacity. Find new personality. Attack and win.

   And only then have the ability to unify.

   Not a fun thought, but it's the political reality.
   • weka 1.1

     16 March 2024 at 9:49 am

     one of the challenges for Labour at the next election is how to manage and be in relationship with the Greens in their radical phase (assuming the Swarbrick plan works out). It’s a significant shift in NZ politics, and will be particularly challenging for the neolib part of Labour.

     I’m not too worried about what the Greens are doing right now in terms of Opposition. With a new co-leader and a large number of new MPs they will be focused on building their team for this term. They’re also starting on their their local government campaign for next year. Swarbrick intends for the party to build the party and action regionally and locally (central and local government) as well as what they do for parliament.

     And hasn’t Shaw been having fun going hard in the House now that he’s off the Ministerial leash?
     • Ad 1.1.1

       16 March 2024 at 2:32 pm

       Shaw unshackled is indeed a pleasure in the House.
2. gsays 2

   16 March 2024 at 8:46 am

   I wasn't aware of this documentary, forgive me if it has already been noted here.

   https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2024/03/12/the-liberal-agenda-the-assange-documentary-the-trust-fall-review-5-stars/

   Going back to the Moment of Truth in 2014, I recall being a tad stunned by the revelations but the general feel was that it was a fizzer. More to do with expectations and hype than what was revealed.

   There is a bit of irony that MSM is going through a crisis at the moment and the deafening silence from them over the persecution of one of their own, Assange.
3. Ad 3

   16 March 2024 at 9:01 am

   Maddenin that it took a court case for Fani Willis's lover and prosecutor to resign from working with Willis to prosecute Trump for RICO crimes.

   You come at the King, you best not miss.

   On most counts, Trump team delay tactics are winning.

   Focus team, the prize is so grand.
4. Ffloyd 4

   16 March 2024 at 9:14 am

   Never interrupt an idiot when they are making a mistake…. COC is doing a wonderful job of making themselves look inept and clueless. Luxon running around the country looking for the last worm in the henhouse is just a parody of a professional politician. I think Labour just needs to pay out the fishing line and see what they catch and go in hard when the COCs have gone as far down as they can go.
   • weka 4.1

     16 March 2024 at 12:22 pm

     test
5. Anne 5

   16 March 2024 at 10:32 am

   Oh dear,

   The police are not happy with Luxon. I wonder how many of them voted National in which case….

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350214575/it-incites-rage-police-verdict-luxon-interview
   • Obtrectator 5.1

     16 March 2024 at 10:54 am

     Mr Luxon on comparing a trainee police officer's pay with the amount he was trying to claim as an accommodation allowance:

     “Well just just say I think conflating those two issues is a bit unfair.”

     Of course, neither he nor any of his coalition colleagues would ever even dream of doing such a thing, would they?
   • SPC 5.2

     16 March 2024 at 2:03 pm

     Police officers in initial training earn $56,000 a year (the article uses the old figure).

     For 16 weeks of training. A bit better than $300 a week on the Student Allowance or off the loan Living Costs.

     Graduate police officers start on $75000.

     Police officers in their fifth year earn $83,000

     https://www.careers.govt.nz/jobs-database/government-law-and-safety/public-order-safety/police-officer/about-the-job
6. dv 6

   16 March 2024 at 10:38 am

   From the stuff article

   Luxon also couldn’t say how much a trainee cop earns

   Asked if he wanted to take a stab at it, he took a punt: “$90,000”.

   A trainee police officer in New Zealand earns $50,834.

   GEEZ
   • alwyn 6.1

     16 March 2024 at 2:34 pm

     If SPC is correct Luxon was a great deal closer than you were. And you had the chance to look it up.

     Please tell us whether you made a mistake or whether you think SPC's source did.
     • Nic the NZer 6.1.1

       16 March 2024 at 3:16 pm

       50,000 vs 56,000 is not making Luxon's guess of 90,000 valid at all. The funny thing is he seems to have been quoting 90,000 as a total cost of employment which is plausible. But he doesn't seem to have considered how it looks that the figures he quoted isn't remuneration and counts costs of running a police force over salary.
       • SPC 6.1.1.1

         16 March 2024 at 4:41 pm

         The issue being conflated here is training wage – which occurs for 16 weeks – and the starting wage.

         The starting wage – after 16 weeks training – is $75,000.
     • dv 6.1.2

       16 March 2024 at 5:08 pm

       Suspect great deal closer to what no?
7. Tony Veitch 7

   16 March 2024 at 10:52 am

   Wow! (to Anne and DV above)

   Rarely have I seen such a contemptible interview with a PM.

   Basically, Tova thinks he's an empty fool, and treats him as such.

   And he doesn't like it much.

   The wheels are falling off the CoC bus!
   • Obtrectator 7.1

     16 March 2024 at 12:27 pm

     Trouble is, even when wheels start to fall off, the vehicle can still sort of keep moving, tearing up a lot of road surface as it goes.
8. Descendant Of Smith 8

   16 March 2024 at 11:46 am

   Post that interview one policeperson I know has set forward in motion plans to go to Oz. They were not happy that Luxon was so out of touch especially about the high starting pay (maybe Luxon was thinking of Aussie cops who earn more).

   Post that my sister messaged to say our nephew is going to give up his skilled, needed job here in NZ and move to Oz. He is sick of living in expensive but shitty rental properties and sees little hope of buying his own here in NZ. He's had a steady string of flatmates who have nearly all up and moved to Aus over the last 5 years.

   Luxon and landlords – depopulating NZ of the working class for cheap immigrants.
   • joe90 8.1

     16 March 2024 at 12:29 pm

     My 30 year old niece, a nurse, is being sent to university by her Sydney employer and her brother, 34, a monitoring/measuring tech who had a well paying job here at home, has a Sydney based job that's given him the opportunity to work around the globe, triple his salary, earn a quarterly bonus, participate in a company buy-in scheme, seniority and development, and paid time off that most can only dream about.

     Both have become Australian citizens.
9. Ffloyd 9

   16 March 2024 at 12:13 pm

   Great stuff from Tova O. Looked like Luxon was drowning in his own drivel. He is just so embarrassing. 🙈
10. Descendant Of Smith 10

    16 March 2024 at 12:14 pm

    Found a more detailed account of Holyoake's Kinloch purchase than I'd seen previously.

    The committee then set out a series of rules to be followed in the application of the principles. Most notably, in Holyoake’s case, one of these stated that ‘A Minister who, prior to assuming office under the Crown, was engaged in the conduct of his own business whether alone, in partnership, or as an incorporated company, should cease to carry on the daily routine work of the business or to take an active part in its day to day management’. The committee noted that, while the principles were not rules of law, they nonetheless ‘set the standard which Parliament and the people expect a Minister of the Crown to observe’.

    https://www.nzjh.auckland.ac.nz/docs/2010/NZJH_44_2_03.pdf

    I'm not sure I agree with this conclusion though.

    This change aside, the level of public scrutiny of politicians today is clearly different, and a minister acting in a similar manner to Holyoake would likely come unstuck rather quickly.

    I look at things like the irrigation scheme running past Amy Adams farm, the PEDA files, Parenting courses through Parents Inc (have they ever been evaluated?), Amy Adams and the irrigation scheeme, etc.

    https://thestandard.org.nz/parents-inc-its-peda-redux/

    https://thestandard.org.nz/inquiry-needed-into-english-peda-scandal/
11. weka 11

    16 March 2024 at 12:23 pm

    anyone else still having trouble with the Reply buttons?
    • weka 11.1

      16 March 2024 at 12:24 pm

      if you are, can you please say what device, OS and browser you are using?
    • Puckish Rogue 11.2

      16 March 2024 at 6:01 pm

      Seems to be working fine 🙂
      • weka 11.2.1

        17 March 2024 at 5:10 pm

        Lynn fixed it.

        Where have you been?
        • Puckish Rogue 11.2.1.1

          18 March 2024 at 10:41 am

          Oh you know, here and there.

          Any rumours that it took me this long to sort out any employment issues I may have had and to finally get ahead of where I was a year and half ago are completely scurrilous and should not be believed.

          At all

          No siree
          • Drowsy M. Kram 11.2.1.1.1

            18 March 2024 at 11:37 am

            Good to know
            • Puckish Rogue 11.2.1.1.1.1

              18 March 2024 at 12:31 pm

              At one point I was at an intersection, finishing up a shift, I was thinking to myself that if I just pulled out into the traffic (SH1) and got hit then all the stress and pressure would just end.

              Id be in hospital and rehab for months, years maybe, full pay and be at home

              If it ended my life then my wife would get an insurance payout and all the money issues, and mortgage, would be ended for her.

              Then I waited until a decent gap came and drove home.
              • weka …

                18 March 2024 at 1:36 pm

                fuck the stress and pressure.
              • Drowsy M. Kram …

                18 March 2024 at 1:59 pm

                Then I waited until a decent gap came and drove home.

                Good on you for choosing to wait – I know a couple of good people who were permanently disabled in collisions with other vehicles, and through no fault of their own – just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
          • weka 11.2.1.1.2

            18 March 2024 at 1:13 pm

            hope the thing that hasn't happened has all settled down.
            • Puckish Rogue 11.2.1.1.2.1

              18 March 2024 at 2:46 pm

              As settled as its likely to be so all good
12. Descendant Of Smith 12

    16 March 2024 at 12:40 pm

    MBIE's oversight of this scheme has been appalling.

    "were finding their wages reduced to zero some weeks as deductions they say were unlawful were being taken out of their pay packets.

    "The money was being taken for expenses such as travel, insurance, wet weather gear, storage, even for kitchen equipment which went missing from their hostel, court documents say."

    Among their claims, the workers say that deductions were made for wet weather gear, which their employer was required to provide as “personal protective equipment” under the Health and Safety at Work Act."
    • Cricklewood 12.1

      16 March 2024 at 5:34 pm

      It disapointed me greatly that flagrant wage theft which this an example of wasnt made subject to a criminal charge. I think maybe the Greens had a members bill in but I cant understand why Labour as a party of the workers wont do it.

      It would absolutly be the best way to shut these scumbag employers down.
      • Craig H 12.1.1

        16 March 2024 at 7:56 pm

        It's a Labour bill.
      • Descendant Of Smith 12.1.2

        16 March 2024 at 9:03 pm

        RSE came in to remove much of the illegal labour the horticulture industry were using. Many of whom were setting up as contractors or not, being paid in wads of cash by orchardists, not paying PAYE, etc to IRD and buggering off back home before IRD could do anything.

        Hort has been dirty for a long, long time.

        The hort industry of course won’t mention that aspect of it.

        “With the introduction of the RSE scheme in 2007, several things happened. First, industry and government worked collaboratively to ‘clean up’ grower and contractor practices to eliminate the illegal use of casual workers under unacceptable working conditions.”

        https://devpolicy.org/why-absconding-hasnt-been-a-problem-in-new-zealands-rse-20220318/

        “In the background, there were increasingly shady and illegal recruitment practices, with an estimated 17,000 illegal workers employed across the horticulture and viticulture (H/V) industries as a whole in 2002.2 Illegal labour, predominantly from Asia rather than the Pacific, was fundamentally unreliable and compromised the value and reputation of law-abiding growers and contractors within the industry. Enforcement action was deemed a threat to productivity, however, as growers grappled with tight timeframes during peak periods, and relied on seasonal workers from any source they could find.”

        https://devpolicy.org/pdf/blog/RSE10thPaper_WhatmanBedfordFinal.pdf
13. Grant 13

    16 March 2024 at 6:42 pm

    Weka. I can create a new comment but can’t reply to existing comments. The reply button will bring up a comment box but won’t allow me to move the cursor into it. iPad gen 6 OS 17.3.1 Chrome latest version. Same issue on both mobile and desktop version of site. This is an old problem not the recent issue. I’ve occasionally seen others mention it as well but it’s never been addressed.
    • weka 13.1

      17 March 2024 at 3:43 pm

      ta
    • weka 13.2

      17 March 2024 at 3:54 pm

      looks like Lynn has fixed the latest one, thanks.
14. randal mcmurphy 14

    16 March 2024 at 9:18 pm

    when is mark mitchell going to something about the passive agressive juvies and infantilised ninnies who think that assaulting the rest of us with their noise is okay. he could start with doing something about STREET OUTLAWS on teevee and TV3 showing yet another re-run of the fast and fuwious but most of the culprits are nationals base!

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