Open mike 16/05/2020

87 comments on “Open mike 16/05/2020 ”

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1. OnceWasTim 1

   16 May 2020 at 6:25 am

   FYI: RNZ National this morning:

   8:10 Kashmir Hill: Police use of facial recognition software Clearview AI

   ( This week RNZ exposed an unapproved police trial of controversial facial recognition software Clearview AI. )
   • Mpk 1.1

     16 May 2020 at 9:59 am

     And tied up with Clearview is all kinds of far right low life including an NZ citizen by the name of Peter Thiel and the compay, Palantir, that he founded.

     https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5e7d028bc5b6cb08a92a5c48
   • RedBaronCV 1.2

     16 May 2020 at 2:20 pm

     This sort of behaviour by some of the cops seems to go on and on. They act like they can do exactly what they want and the rules are what they decide. All the stuff around Nicky Hager and the other journalists, the roast busters, illegal traffic stops in wellington, under policing of some poor behaviour by people associated with RW blogging – the lists go on and on. Opposing liquor licences where there may be personal issues in play. Police Groups with guns being used multiple times with the need being some what blurry.

     It must be demoralising for police staff who don't subscribe to any of this and frankly some of it has cost the taxpayer a fortune. Nobody ever seems to be reprimanded, fired or held responsible in any way. I think we need a royal commission into the police because nothing ever changes.

     Now we have a new commissioner whose career path looks very much like he has been groomed for top jobs for about the last decade – so mainly under RW governments. Has he done anything about this suveillance or is he just going to approve it in retrospect?
2. observer 2

   16 May 2020 at 6:33 am

   Usual caveats about polls, but these numbers are remarkable:

   Scroll down to the last questions. On the lockdown, the National Party speak for about 6% of the public.
   • tc 2.1

     16 May 2020 at 7:40 am

     Polls smolls…..ask about and reasonable people get what national are doing and it apalls them. Their lack of humanity by politicking through this will hurt them in September IMO.
   • I Feel Love 2.2

     16 May 2020 at 8:20 am

     The 80% approval of going to level 2 "about right" was interesting with the caveat "despite stories in media saying lift lockdown ages ago".
     • francesca 2.2.1

       16 May 2020 at 8:26 am

       Seems like our media has political agendas that are totally out of step with the NZ population

       Must be upsetting to them that their best efforts have fallen flat
       • Janet 2.2.1.1

         16 May 2020 at 10:25 am

         Yes Francesca Out of step with the NZ population. That is why I would like to see "comments" allowed again on their articles. I would subscibe to receive the paper daily if they did !
         • tc 2.2.1.1.1

           16 May 2020 at 3:30 pm

           Pretty obvious messaging strategy at play here from the right
3. Dennis Frank 3

   16 May 2020 at 8:40 am

   "It’s a fair assumption to suggest that at the time of entering Parliament, an MP’s political views and beliefs are set and are the motivation to enter politics in the first place."

   True, so Steve Elers, senior lecturer at Massey University’s School of Communication, Journalism and Marketing, examines socialist Jacinda: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300012145/its-important-to-understand-what-drives-the-prime-minister

   "Accordingly, to understand Ardern’s political ideology it is important to revisit 2008, when she entered Parliament as a Labour list-MP. Earlier in 2008 Ardern was elected president of the International Union of Socialist Youth. In early 2009, just two months after becoming an MP, Ardern presided over the union's World Council annual meeting in her capacity as president."

   "Official records of that meeting give us insights into Ardern’s political ideology. For example, the meeting documents state the aim of the union is to “defend and spread our core socialist principles”. The 2009 union meeting is relevant not just because Ardern was president, but because the official resolutions outlined “progressive answers to the financial crisis” – aka the global financial crisis or GFC."

   "Given Ardern and her comrades had “progressive answers to the financial crisis”, those answers might now be used to guide us through the turmoil and hardship of post-Covid-19. By the way, I have used "comrade" because it is how union members referred to themselves throughout the 2009 meeting."

   "I do not use "comrade" disparagingly here, as indeed Ardern herself used the term 15 times in just seven minutes at this public event."

   Comrade Ardern and her other comrades stated: “Redistribution will lead to more financial stability and justice. As IUSY we struggle for redistribution between the north and the south and for redistribution between the poor and the rich, because we believe in equality and justice.” On the same trajectory, Ardern and her comrades said: “Human beings are born with unequal resources available. We as young socialists believe in a social democratic system which secures a redistribution of resources.”

   Which all raises the question; did she have a subsequent conversion to neoliberalism & kept quiet about it? Or is she a socialist wolf wearing neoliberal sheeps clothing? She may even explain that one can be both simultaneously, kinda like walking and chewing gum. We'll never know. Aotearoa lacks journos clever enough to ask her those questions.

   Steve has vital questions of his own: "I wonder then what is the exact point whereby "inequality" becomes acceptable? For example, is a 20 per cent gap of "inequality" acceptable? Or does it need to be closer, like 10 per cent? Or do we all need to have the exact same amount of income and wealth?"

   Waste of time. In the history of socialism, no socialist has ever spelt out a recipe for how it is meant to work. That's why Corbyn & Sanders felt obliged to fake it. Vapid vacuous innuendo, sadly, failed to turn them into winners. Credit Jacinda for not making the same stupid mistake. Well, not so obviously, perhaps…
   • McFlock 3.1

     16 May 2020 at 9:22 am

     In the history of socialism, no socialist has ever spelt out a recipe for how it is meant to work.

     A bold statement in the country of Michael Joseph Savage.
     • Dennis Frank 3.1.1

       16 May 2020 at 9:42 am

       Fools rush in where angels fear to tread? 😎 Well, correct me if I'm wrong. I suspect Savage et al promoted a scheme based on pragmatism more than design-based plan, but I agree state houses do seem sufficiently similar to imply a blueprint. As regards design of an alternative economy, history seems rather moot on that point.

       A columnist somewhere the other day commended Grant Robertson for not yielding to to the Keynesian recipe. I'm tempted to feel that Aotearoa would benefit from his yielding somewhat, but let's see how the budget copes with circumstance first.
       • Pat 3.1.1.1

         16 May 2020 at 9:49 am

         "A columnist somewhere the other day commended Grant Robertson for not yielding to to the Keynesian recipe. I'm tempted to feel that Aotearoa would benefit from his yielding somewhat, but let's see how the budget copes with circumstance first."

         you appear somewhat confused…you do understand what Keynes advocated?
         • Dennis Frank 3.1.1.1.1

           16 May 2020 at 9:55 am

           I've read plenty of interpretations by others in the media & in books, but never wanted to read him personally. Feel free to quote him if relevant…
           • Pat 3.1.1.1.1.1

             16 May 2020 at 10:01 am

             If you havnt read any of his theories (though ‘authoritatively’ reference them) then i suggest you do and you will quickly realise what nonsense your post was.
             • Dennis Frank …

               16 May 2020 at 10:30 am

               No point. Nobody in the media has claimed that the budget was Keynesian, as far as I know. So you have yet to demonstrate relevance.

               I cited the columnist as an indicator of the non-Keynesian nature of Grant's design. Take up your grouch with the columnist, if you disagree. I'm agnostic on whether it is or not…
               • Pat …

                 16 May 2020 at 10:49 am

                 within the constraints of a decades long winding back of state capacity it would be difficult to imagine a more Keynesian response…the gov is not increasing taxes (nor reducing state demand) but rather stepping in to replace the lost demand from the private sector and it is doing so by expanding the fiscal envelope (borrowing) and providing employment….if that is not recognised by any of the columnists you peruse then you need to read better informed columnists.
                 • Dennis Frank …

                   16 May 2020 at 11:24 am

                   Yes, that reasoning does seem valid. Perhaps Keynes means different things to different people? I'll go see if I can find a view from Bernard Hickey.
                   • KJT …

                     16 May 2020 at 11:49 am

                     Why not simply read Keynes.

                     He explains it clearly.
       • KJT 3.1.1.2

         16 May 2020 at 10:25 am

         FFS.

         What Robertson, and the previous two Governments have done. Even National, to an extent, is classic Keynes.

         Paraphrasing a bit. Run Government surpluses in good times, so as to have room to run the, "necessary" deficits in the bad ones.

         It is the ideas behind the whole concept of “keeping Government debt, low”.
         • Dennis Frank 3.1.1.2.1

           16 May 2020 at 10:44 am

           Not saying you're wrong on that point, but I just took a look at Michael Reddell's budget analysis to see if he called it Keynesian. He didn't. He did have this interesting observation:

           "For some reason, not known to me, the government is going to put lots more money in the NZSF over the next few years – beyond what the statutory formula provides for – as if having a flutter on the world markets, at your risk and mine, was an important part of a recovery programme."

           So Grant the gambler. Does that fit the neoliberal model or the socialist model?
           • KJT 3.1.1.2.1.1

             16 May 2020 at 10:51 am

             Well. You already know what I think about people "gambling in stock markets" privatising super provision, expecting it to magically build capability to supply resources to people in future, rather than investing in our own future capability and resilience.

             I’ll put my capitalist hat on here. Government should be investing in infrastructure, services and people, not private corporations.
           • KJT 3.1.1.2.1.2

             16 May 2020 at 11:04 am

             Note that Robertson s money into trade training, retraining and apprenticeships instead of continuing with "free" B com degrees for well off kids, is something I totally agree with.

             Along with a lot of their other initiatives.

             For your question. I think it is debatable. Thatcher apologists, claimed her sell offs of State infrastructure meant everyone, through their shares, still owned it. Similar to some here. Conveniently ignoring that so many who pay the higher prices of privatisation could never afford, shares.
             • Craig H …

               16 May 2020 at 8:30 pm

               The "Free BCom" scheme included all NZQF qualifications including trade training for two years i.e. double the free first year of the BCom.
       • Ad 3.1.1.3

         16 May 2020 at 10:54 am

         You might want to check out the the published socialist histories of the UK Attlee government, postwar Denmark, postwar Netherlands, postwar Finland, Ireland's welfare system, as well as the crap ones like Cuba, Tanzania, and Nicaragua.

         If $50b of state borrowing and dumptrucks of infrastructure and health investment, and utterly massive business tax breaks and wage subsidies isn't Keynsean, then you need a new version of Keynes.
   • KJT 3.2

     16 May 2020 at 9:35 am

     "Socialists" have frequently spelt out how it is meant to work.

     In fact we have the example of our first Labour Government, that it does work.

     And, right now, all the "capitalists" that dodged taxes and wanted to avoid paying wages, with their hands out to the "Socialists" to bail them out.

     Obviously they are convinced that "Socialism" , works!

     They just want someone else to pay for it, for them.

     All the complaints, especially from National, has been about not enough “Socialism” for them!
     • Ad 3.2.1

       16 May 2020 at 10:55 am

       Worked fine here for decades.

       Soured after a while but it was still what we needed.
   • mac1 3.3

     16 May 2020 at 9:40 am

     "I do not use 'comrade' disparagingly here, as indeed Ardern herself used the term 15 times in just seven minutes at this public event"

     The lecturer, Steve Elers, "doth protest too much, methinks."

     Gertrude in 'Hamlet' said this about an actor who was overacting in an insincere way to incriminate Hamlet's uncle.

     The lecturer wrote. "It's a fair assumption to suggest that at the time of entering Parliament, an MP's political views and beliefs are set and are the motivation to enter politics in the first place."

     In the immortal words of Ardern and Robertson in response to leading questions from the Opposition, "Mr Speaker, I reject the premises of that question."

     I note the weasel words in the opening quotation- 'assumption' and 'suggest'.

     Who would believe that statement made this way? "At the time of entering Parliament, an MP's political views and beliefs are set and are the motivation to enter politics in the first place"?

     In my lifetime I have changed my views about abortion, the infallibility of the Pope, homosexuality, cannabis, war, and the need to provide potatoes with every dinner.

     To say that all views of all MPs are fixed, and further to argue that if an MP seems to acting differently that they are being deceitful about their true beliefs and motivations is stupid and a self-serving belief that attempts to self explain what is in itself a fixed belief- "That socialism is bad, all comrade socialists are bad, comrade Ardern is doing things that I don't approve of because she is doing things that I do approve but I don't like her doing them because at heart she is a comrade socialist and all comrade socialists are bad and I don't like socialism."

     This is not the kind of thinking I like to read from someone who is a lecturer in communications.

     I'll stop now, methinks……….
     • Dennis Frank 3.3.1

       16 May 2020 at 9:52 am

       Well, there's this thing called rhetoric. I suppose he was doing that. I never studied classics but the orators would pitch a stance, apparently, then back it up with reasoning. Ad nauseum, sometimes.

       I agree that folks tend to amend views through life, but it is true that beliefs formed in formative years are enduring. Some politicians have a world-view seeming to be set in concrete, eh? They only get traction if supporters locked into the same world-view are numerous enough. Those flexible enough to take on board the world-view of others tend to do better at politics (the art of compromise).
       • KJT 3.3.1.1

         16 May 2020 at 10:37 am

         Some of us learn how to amend our "beliefs" as we gain more evidence, experience and knowledge.

         Others…….

         And. Those who compromise too much, end up achieving, little.
         • Descendant Of Smith 3.3.1.1.1

           16 May 2020 at 12:16 pm

           "and the need to provide potatoes with every dinner."

           That's a step too far. Next you'll be giving up sardines on toast.
           • mac1 3.3.1.1.1.1

             16 May 2020 at 1:04 pm

             Gave that up very early. My Irish forebears would've said "famine food." Too fishy, too oily- like some opposition politicians……..
             • KJT …

               16 May 2020 at 1:12 pm

               Still trying, and failing, to get the family away from the idea every meal must include a big chunk of carbs.
   • Drowsy M. Kram 3.4

     16 May 2020 at 1:15 pm

     "Vapid vacuous innuendo" just about sums it up – wonder if Elers ever put his 'thoughts' about John Key's 'motivations' on paper, or are only socialist motives 'suspect'?

     As for Elers' 'concern' about the correct setting of an (un)acceptable ‘inequality threshold‘, that's an absolutely transparent attempt to delay significant redistribution of wealth. Yes yes, of course we all agree redistribution is urgently needed, but 'how much', and by what mechanism'? – let the hand wringing commence.
     • Dennis Frank 3.4.1

       16 May 2020 at 2:43 pm

       I don't share his stance re socialist motives – I see them as well-intentioned, altruistic idealists mostly. I remain puzzled about why they continue to refuse to learn from their experience of politics. Talk to them, they ain't obviously stupid. Corbyn & Sanders don't seem stupid to me. As people. It's the adherence to a failed belief system that makes them seem stupid to most voters.

       I reckon they could have sold neosocialism as a tweaked evolutionary development of mid-20th century socialism. Just eliminate the bads and point out that the goods are timeless. Simple! You'd think any politico could figure out such an evident political strategy.

       As regards specifying the inequality threshold, I advocated doing so by societal consensus onsite here a couple of years ago. I advocated it to Metiria Turei when she appealed to Green Party members for ideas on how to get the job done a couple of years prior to that. I presume she failed to adopt it due to preferring to have a political career by faking consensus rather than actually doing it.
       • Drowsy M. Kram 3.4.1.1

         16 May 2020 at 3:15 pm

         Many people are selfish – what percentage of wealthy NZers (please don’t ask me to define ‘wealthy‘), and those with ambitions/expectations of being wealthy, would support a political party advocating a greater redistribution of wealth (hard-earned and otherwise) than we currently have? 30%, 20%, 10%…?

         As a "well-intentioned, altruistic idealist" (thank-you), I don't know how to sell a 'wealth redistribution product' to the selfish, and it's no good asking selfish people for advice. Consider Lisa Owen's introduction to the post-budget edition of Checkpoint; "What's in it for you?"

         Presumptions come easy to some – just an observation. Still, no-one’s perfect.
       • Sacha 3.4.1.2

         16 May 2020 at 10:52 pm

         Meow.
     • Incognito 3.4.2

       16 May 2020 at 3:38 pm

       I didn’t know who the author was of that piece in Stuff but I can’t be bothered with his pseudo-academic musings. I’ve read enough from and about him in the last few weeks. Did you know that (Sir) Bob Jones labelled him as Man of the Year? I wonder when and where he’s going to stand for office. Enough said.
   • observer 3.5

     16 May 2020 at 3:29 pm

     Elers only says one thing, and he says it every week. You should read his previous droppings, it's hard to know whether or not they are satire. Not great satire, mind – a proper parody of the frothing Cindyphobes would be much better written.

     He never revisits his previous columns, which is not surprising. He got everything wrong about Ardern's leadership, but like a true obsessive, he does not let reality intrude on his world.
     • Incognito 3.5.1

       16 May 2020 at 3:55 pm

       Heh! I reluctantly link to one of his previous pieces in Stuff, which drew a ‘clarification’ (at the bottom).

       https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/121206976/prime-minister-needs-to-be-held-to-account-over-coronavirus-claims

       This alleged ‘censorship’ generated a lot of commentary, particularly on right-leaning Social Media as well from the OP himself: https://www.magic.co.nz/home/news/2020/04/the-prime-minister-s-office-is-exerting-influence-on-media-and-e.html
   • Gabby 3.6

     16 May 2020 at 5:49 pm

     How disingenuous is neocon Steve being here, neocon Den?
   • newsense 3.7

     17 May 2020 at 3:52 am

     Lol- and she spent a year in Tony Blair's office or some such.

     Desperate.
4. Stephen D 4

   16 May 2020 at 9:09 am

   I know not everyone likes The Guardian, this made a lot of sense.

   https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/15/humans-resources-coronavirus-democratise-work-health-lives-market?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

   Opening paragraph.

   ”Working humans are so much more than “resources”. This is one of the central lessons of the current crisis. Caring for the sick; delivering food, medication and other essentials; clearing away our waste; stocking the shelves and running the registers in our grocery stores – the people who have kept life going through the Covid-19 pandemic are living proof that work cannot be reduced to a mere commodity. Human health and the care of the most vulnerable cannot be governed by market forces alone. If we leave these things solely to the market, we run the risk of exacerbating inequalities to the point of forfeiting the very lives of the least advantaged.”
   • weka 4.1

     16 May 2020 at 3:22 pm

     Yep. I'm not sure that the worst of the neolibs care, but it has brought it into stark relief.
5. RedLogix 5

   16 May 2020 at 9:47 am

   Freightways need a damn good kick up the arse. I have close family working as full time contract couriers and the whole business model in this country is suffering from the 'sin of cheapness'.

   Thousands of drivers have been working around the clock to deliver the skyrocketing volumes of residential freight over the past few weeks.

   But despite parcel numbers and hours being higher than ever, their pay has taken a significant hit.

   One courier driver – who works for NZ Couriers – told RNZ she was arriving at her depot at 4.15am to start loading up and was not finishing until 6pm most days.

   She used to deliver about 300 packages per day, but that had jumped to 600. She said she had been working such long hours she'd had to ask her partner to help so they could run two vehicles to keep up.

   Her pay has dropped from an average of $6600 per month to $4800 last month – before tax.

   Residential deliveries, which are taking up the vast bulk of their work at the moment, pay between 20c and $1 each.

   I can fully testify to this, somedays they're working from 4am to 8pm handling an unprecedented surge in volume. Yes it is dangerous and almost certainly illegal, but at the same time they still get regularly abused by customers who think their precious delivery was an hour or two late.

   Nonetheless Freightways have chosen to rort their own workers as a reward for this extraordinary effort:

   Most couriers are independent contractors – meaning they should have control over their business, hours and working conditions.

   But that was often not the reality of their working situation. During lockdown, NZ Couriers has told drivers to take the government's wage subsidy, which is only available for employees.

   Their contract for May states: "For the 12 weeks that the government subsidy applies, $117 per day of contractor remuneration is assumed to have been received, and the company will contribute the balance up to 90 percent of run's listed minimum earnings or tickets redeemed, whichever is greater."

   So on one hand they're treating the drivers as contractors which lets them get away with them working dangerously long hours, on the other they're treating them as employees and deducting any wage subsidy they received covering the quiet period at the beginning of the lockdown.

   Turning all of the drivers into employees is not necessarily the desired solution, the 'wagies' who do work in the business are treated even worse than the contractors, probably deliberately so.
   • millsy 5.1

     16 May 2020 at 10:40 am

     The couriers need a a less restrictive contract which would allow them to deliver for other companies. Uber has copped a lot of flack, and rightly so at times, but at least they let their drivers work for other rideshare companies. There is no reason why the likes of Fastways and CrestClean cannot do the same.
     • RedLogix 5.1.1

       16 May 2020 at 10:52 am

       That's not a bad suggestion. The problem at the moment is the sham nature of their contracts, where they really are neither employees nor contractors and have the protections of neither.
       • Descendant Of Smith 5.1.1.1

         16 May 2020 at 12:44 pm

         The fact that are not self-employed was highlighted a few years back when a family member was working for one of them.

         His run area was pretty poor and he worked hard with the customers to build up the run til it was nicely profitable. When it cam up for renewal the owner gave that run to a mate of the owners and put him on another shitty run-down run.

         Self-employed – not likely.
   • Tony Veitch (not etc.) 5.2

     16 May 2020 at 11:07 am

     It seems to me the courier drivers need a union! If they already have one, it needs to flex its muscles!

     The case for compulsory unionism?
     • RedLogix 5.2.1

       16 May 2020 at 11:27 am

       The companies don't want the capital and maintenance of the vehicles on their books; and probably for good reason. Drivers do tend to be a lot better at looking after them when the expenses come out of their pockets.

       Also drivers tend to be a lot more proactive about looking after customers and building the business when it directly goes onto their bottom line. Many enjoy the modest freedom it brings, not having to account for every damned minute of their day to some petty manager is a small, but real pleasure.

       Plus the ability to manage tax directly can work for them as well.

       So there are good reasons for them to be contractors; but of course the downside is they are locked into one client which is where all the problem arise.

       In this view a traditional union model might not be the best fit; but something like a 'Drivers Association' that provided a collection of services to assist owner drivers to negotiate and obtain good legal advice would be a step in the right direction.

       Last week I was sent a pic of a van load of School packs, that were paid at 20 cents each. That worked out to be less than the cost of the fuel alone.
       • Craig H 5.2.1.1

         16 May 2020 at 9:59 pm

         I remember having a chat with a taxi driver along the same lines. He was just about sold on it by the time he dropped me off at union HQ from the airport!
6. francesca 6

   16 May 2020 at 9:48 am

   The Spanish security firm UC Global who were ostensibly protecting the Ecuadorean embassy but in ;spying comprehensively on Assange&his family,,friends, defense team and visitors and turning everything over to the CIA was recruited by Sheldon Adelson,Trumps;s second biggest donor for his 2016 campaign (10 mill).He also owns the Sands Hotel and Casino; (where Frank Sinatra and the Ratpack used to carouse)and is one of the most rabid advocates for Israel

   “In February 2012, Adelson told Forbes magazine that he is “against very wealthy people attempting to or influencing elections. But as long as it’s doable Im going to do it. Because I know that guys like George_Soros have been doing it for years, if not decades. And they stay below the radar by creating a network of corporations to funnel their money. I have my own philosophy and I’m not ashamed of it”

   "Morales was charged by a Spanish High Court in October 2019 with violating the privacy of Assange and abusing the publishers attorney-client privileges, as well as money laundering and bribery. The documents revealed in court, which were primarily backups from company computers, exposed the disturbing reality of his activities on the dark side.”

   This is a rather sickening look in to the way the world works, money ,power, and influence

   https://thegrayzone.com/2020/05/14/american-sheldon-adelsons-us-spy-julian-assange/#more-24388
   • Drowsy M. Kram 6.1

     16 May 2020 at 1:50 pm

     Thanks. It's almost as if there was/is a state-coordinated conspiracy against a journalist responsible for publicising information that embarrassed politicians and officials.
7. Stephen D 7

   16 May 2020 at 10:33 am

   On NewShub, Matthew Hooten calling for Simon’s resignation if polling is below 35%.

   Which is why he’ll never let caucus know how bad it is.
   • Stephen D 7.1

     16 May 2020 at 11:44 am

     Are senior members of the caucus ready to sacrifice their colleagues low on the list? Then they can let Simon lead them to disaster. Following the election do the leadership purge.
   • Peter 7.2

     16 May 2020 at 1:14 pm

     The caucus don't need to see the polling results. It means they can concentrate on something that's a really big deal to them. Even writing this I can the likes of Chris Bishop going on about it.

     The thing that is the most important in the world? Transparency.

     Monday's caucus, imagine it. The Member for Northcote peeping up from the back,"Paula, you know how you told us we must use the word transparency at least 29 times everyday because transparency is important, are we going to be able to see the poll figures?"
8. aj 8

   16 May 2020 at 10:56 am

   Bridges interview was another train wreck I thought. When asked specifically what the National plan would be he instinctly went to his base. I paraphrase, "We'd help businesses go and and buy new tractors"
9. Ad 9

   16 May 2020 at 11:04 am

   Drought.

   A washy post-tropical phase in a week's time. That's it.

   http://www.metvuw.com/forecast/forecast.php?type=rain&region=nz&noofdays=10

   But not a single southerly front from subantarctic southern ocean all through to June at least.

   Nearly half of New Zealand 's population is now in water restrictions.

   This is cutting hard, and very deep.
   • AB 9.1

     16 May 2020 at 11:42 am

     Yes – it will give Shane Jones plenty of cover for funding water storage schemes. It's unavoidable in the current environment – as anything that looks like economic development/job creation will get a big tick. It'll most likely be bad for fresh water quality.
   • RedLogix 9.2

     16 May 2020 at 11:49 am

     This is because I'm not trying to paint a roof in Auckland this year (unlike last winter when it pissed down). How much do think I could get paid to come back over and do another one?
     • Ad 9.2.1

       16 May 2020 at 12:42 pm

       Trust me the dew is too heavy for roof painting.

       I tried it in April once and the corrugated dips just didn't set in time for overnight, and just ran away into the gutter in the morning.

       Lesson learned here.
       • RedLogix 9.2.1.1

         16 May 2020 at 12:59 pm

         The trick is to use one of the new HVLP airless sprayers to put it on fast. Start at around 12:30pm once the roof is dry and be done by 2pm at the latest. If the temp is over 10 degC you can get away with it. Just.
   • weka 9.3

     16 May 2020 at 3:28 pm

     NZ has plenty of water, we're just bad at managing it sustainably and future-proofing supply (also a sustainability issue).

     For instance, putting in localised water storage for gardens, alongside teaching people how to garden with low and/or variable rainfall, would mitigate the problem of people now not being able to water their gardens.
10. Incognito 10

    16 May 2020 at 12:44 pm

    There is no clear definition of a “weak positive” COVID-19 test result, apparently, or at least not one that has been communicated clearly to us, the public of NZ. Similar confusion about “elimination”, “eradication”, and other terms that are highly confusing to laypeople (e.g. containment, mitigation, suppression, etc.).

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121533536/coronavirus-what-it-means-to-get-a-weak-positive-covid19-test-result
11. RedBaronCV 11

    16 May 2020 at 2:48 pm

    On another topic entirely ( for one of our super gardeners here). I can't get dried chick peas in bulk that I cook and freeze. I'm assuming a supply disruption. Looking up the plant it seems to be something that grows on marginal soils and like other peas & beans fixes nitrogen etc. Does anyone know if it is grown commercially here? Likewise lentils? And if we need to go for import substitution how long will I need to wait before it grows?
    • francesca 11.1

      16 May 2020 at 3:16 pm

      Puy lentils were being grown in Canterbury

      https://www.agronomysociety.org.nz/files/SP7_21._Lentil_production_in_Canterbury.pdf

      Also chick peas

      https://www.agronomysociety.org.nz/files/SP7_23._Chickpeas.pdf
    • weka 11.2

      16 May 2020 at 3:31 pm

      Most chickpeas for sale in NZ will be imported. There are some growers, but it's small scale.

      Don't know about lentils, but I assume the same.

      It's why the whole go vegan to prevent climate change is a fail. Large parts of vegan diets have to be imported.

      We can change this, there are lots of crops we could be growing here but aren't. This is why I keep banging on about relocalising food supply. It's better for the climate, and food security (and it generally tastes better).
      • Alice Tectonite 11.2.1

        16 May 2020 at 5:26 pm

        Sun Valley lentils are NZ grown, don't know about their chickpeas. (Also NZ grown are their pearl barley & split peas – just looking at a pack of their soup mix that I need to use up.)
        • RedBaronCV 11.2.1.1

          16 May 2020 at 6:34 pm

          Thank you all. Lots of good info. So I can now ponder digging up my back yard or visiting Canterbury….

          Sometimes I wonder if we should publish a list of the stuff we import and then try to work out if we can economically produce the same volume here?
          • weka 11.2.1.1.1

            17 May 2020 at 12:20 am

            recent discussions on line about how the wheat used to make bread for the North Island comes from Australia, rather than using the wheat in the South Island (something about the right kind of wheat for bread not being able to be grown in the NI). Freight costs apparently.

            It was hard to buy organic oats at one point because all the farmers were selling to the Canadian market.

            This shit is why I hate globalisation. It's fucking stupid. The reasons that these situations work is because no-one is accounting for ecological damage including climate change.
            • weka 11.2.1.1.1.1

              17 May 2020 at 12:23 am

              But yeah, it's a good idea to draw up a list of what we could be growing here. I'd put legumes high up the list.

              The other part of the problem is that most food in NZ is grown for export, and if we look at the land being use for industrial dairy, it's going to be hard to convert that to other kinds of farming unless milk prices collapse because there is so much debt on the land and because the industry is basically a rort designed to keep extracting for maximum $.
      • pete 11.2.2

        16 May 2020 at 10:30 pm

        Also hunting is great for local meat and keeping pests down – also the suffering is minimal compared to farmed animals

        The deer are out there in nature doing their Rousseauian best and then one day a quick death puts meat on your table

        Get a license, grab a rifle, head into the hills and get into it!
12. joe90 12

    16 May 2020 at 2:59 pm

    Simeon seems rather pleased with his nazi mention.

    https://twitter.com/SimeonBrownMP/status/1260863071846723584
    • Barfly 12.1

      16 May 2020 at 4:22 pm

      "PM’s staff can locked you in your home"

      I've gotten old – make more mistakes than I used plus I'm often drunk. What the hell is her excuse for butchering the English language. Do journalists need to have a cognitive deficit to qualify for the job?
      • lprent 12.1.1

        16 May 2020 at 4:44 pm

        Do journalists need to have a cognitive deficit to qualify for the job?

        Nope. But clearly if you want to appear to be a meaningless dimwit incapable of understanding an issue, then it clearly helps to build the impression.
      • In Vino 12.1.2

        16 May 2020 at 6:07 pm

        It's hawsers for corsets, Barfly
        • I Feel Love 12.1.2.1

          16 May 2020 at 9:33 pm

          Most spam is misspelled.
    • I Feel Love 12.2

      16 May 2020 at 9:50 pm

      Comments are funny, can't believe he's left the Tweet up. He gets support from people who call Adern our "tranny PM" (??), Covid Hoaxers & Pro Lifer conspiracists. Katie Hopkins, ffs. Oh yeah, apparently we're a communist country now.
13. Peter 13

    16 May 2020 at 3:32 pm

    I heard Trump wanting unity in appproaches. Given how he sees the world it was a sick joke. A life of "I don't need you, fuck off" suddenly changing to "I'm drowning please save me."

    "It is perhaps laudable that many of the victors of capitalism’s spoils want to contribute to the common project of fighting the pandemic. But we should not forget that so many of the factors that have rendered the coronavirus particularly deadly in the United States — income inequality, the lack of a social safety net, the precarious standing of newly-essential gig workers, the obsession with freedom from government tyranny and the lack of a coherent civic identity — are direct products of the way we valorize self-making."

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/billionaires-are-playing-savior-now-but-they-broke-the-economy-to-begin-with/2020/05/15/6014e04e-9544-11ea-91d7-cf4423d47683_story.html
14. joe90 14

    16 May 2020 at 6:23 pm

    Thread.

    https://twitter.com/willripleyCNN/status/1261131205841350656

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1261131205841350656.html
15. Ad 15

    16 May 2020 at 10:41 pm

    Well, while the rest of us were in lockdown and supposed to be writing the film script or learning French or whatever else we promised ourselves if we only had the time, a 6 year old figured out the bossanova:

    http://metvuw.com/forecast/forecast.php?type=rain&region=swp&noofdays=10
    • pete 15.1

      16 May 2020 at 11:09 pm

      wait, what?
16. Eco Maori 16

    18 May 2020 at 6:29 pm

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    That's is going to make the election interesting.

    That's is cool people still working from home Ka pai.

    Ka kite Ano
17. Eco Maori 17

    18 May 2020 at 6:54 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    Good to see more money being invested in our mokopuna teachers the better you treat the seedling the stronger they will grow.

    It is cool that more whare are being built in Te Tairawhiti there has been a shortage of affordable whare there for a while now.

    I think that our return service people should be given the royal treatment when they retired.

    Ka kite Ano
18. Eco Maori 18

    19 May 2020 at 8:42 am

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    New Zealanders have to start taking Internet security serious.

    I think the way the money has been distributed for our virus hit economy stimulis has been quite wise as the money will flow through the economy and back to our governments tax take.

    Michelle do you want some tissue.

    I think that labour will still need the Green party to rule.

    Wow that's awesome more putea invested in Maori arts and crafts.

    I think that's a logical way to help deal with the droughts. Change the laws so anyone can have tanks to catch wai that falls from Tawhirimate.

    Extreme climate change in the past won't be as extreme as we have now being influenced by the billions of tons of carbon we have spewing into our atmosphere warming our planet.

    Ka kite Ano
19. Eco Maori 19

    19 May 2020 at 6:30 pm

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    The new public holiday could be environment day.

    I say domestic tourist will keep our tourist attractions running till we get some international tourist back.

    That shows burning fossil fuels is bad for our health as well as our environment.

    Ka kite Ano.
20. Eco Maori 20

    19 May 2020 at 6:54 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    I'm glad that crap is getting stamped out of our society

    Good to see the tangata at Te puia smiling.

    Correct if we don't obey the virus rules our Kaumatua could suffer.

    Cool funding for broadband at Marae.

    Ka kite Ano

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