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Open mike 16/06/2020

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 16th, 2020 - 131 comments
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131 comments on “Open mike 16/06/2020”

  1. observer 1

    Since March, public support for the government's response to Covid19 has been 80%, 83%, 86%, 84% and today, 84% according to the latest survey (SpinOff site).

    We can add to that the TV1 and TV3 polls at 91%.

    Remember the chorus of "Should have been Level 1 weeks ago"? They spoke for just 12% (that's plenty for Winston, who only needs 5%, but it's a disaster for National).

    Obviously it would be amazingly stupid for National MPs to keep complaining about Ardern and the Covid response. So that's what they're doing.

    • Enough is Enough 1.1

      Winston is marching into National territory today.

      "We won't pander to the woke brigade" said today by Winston Peters re BLM protests is music to the ears of conservative New Zealand.

      Muller and Kaye are trying to distance themselves from that sentiment which is giving Winnie an opening.

      I thought he was a gonner a month ago, but I am now thinking he will pick up some of National's conservative base and return in September. He's like a fucking cockroach  

    • Sanctuary 1.2

      The drum beat of corporate media stories around opening the border has been a classic example of lobbyist with money who owned journalists like Fran O'Sullivan trying to manufacture consent.

  2. Sanctuary 2

    Me watching: The build up to the rugby on Sunday…
    Melanie Robinson: "We've seen outstanding leadership from the prime minister in recent months, I expect Beauden will bring outstanding leadership to the Blues"
    Me thinking: "I hope Gerry isn't watching." 

  3. Andre 3

    Was Rio Tinto really sorry about blowing up a 46,000 year old Aboriginal heritage site to get at a few bucks worth of iron ore? Yeah, nah.

    https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2020/06/mining-company-not-sorry-for-destroying-46000-year-old-aboriginal-site-report/

    The sooner these malicious orcs fuck off from Tiwai Point, the happier I'll be.

  4. Shameful! :

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-detail/story/2018750729/trapped-migrant-workers-nz-s-new-underclass

    And the above is the least of it. (because the problem is now so big it can only focus on a couple of examples – e,g, the  RSE workers 

    I L-G: Rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb dither dither dither. I have complete faith in my officials (even the ones that have bullshitted to me) Rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb  

    INZ: Rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb the commodity of people as a human resource all wrapped up in a risk-managed (unofficial) demographic spreadsheet.

    Commentariat: Pearl clutch pearl clutch pearl clutch

     

    • Ed1 4.1

      This has been speculated to result from the 'joys' of coalition government, and the art of the possible. If so, there are less than one hundred days to hopefully fix that and have a consistently kinder government . . .. 

      • OnceWasTim 4.1.1

        Yep. It was those two noble savages Shane and Winston what dunnit.

        Even though many/most of those affected by the policies have a closer affinity and understanding of lil 'ole NuZull that punches above its weight's first people.

        S&W are us though eh? and those are them. And its not as though people were warning us all about what has now come to pass 4 years ago.

         

         

    • Molly 4.2

      A possible solution, pay local marae (who often get utilised in emergency situations anyway) to provide board for those stranded, now that the Covid threat has been eliminated.

      A double win.  These migrants get provided with what they need, for the short term, and local marae get some income to help support them through these times.

       

      • OnceWasTim 4.2.1

        A bloody good short term solution @ Molly – as you're more often than not prone to come up with.

        In some places, relationships such as you suggest are already happening (without the payments), and long term friendships are in the making

        Meanwhile back at the INZ ranch, officials are worrying about how such phenomenon could take hold – it could completely undermine their thinkings going forward (based on learnings from the past)

      • RedBaronCV 4.2.2

        That would be good short term but air travel is slowly opening up again  (Singapore airlines for one is reopening the Singapore hub ) so I do see a need to keep working with the various embassies and Airnz to put on some charter flights to assist some of the larger groups back to where they want to go, or to facilitate an onwards connection.

        Charters or even scheduled flights can  be one way flights only  as we don't have the capacity to quarantine full return planes so would be a more expensive but not ridiculous prices. A lot of the extended one year visa's expire in Sept.  Frankly I think I L-G needs to largely bypass his department and get MFAT, AirNZ  and the embassies to advertise the charter flights (backed up by onwards travel agreements with maybe Singapore Air)  so that we can give some certainty to travellers and  move them towards Auckland airport.

    • Anne 4.3

      I must say OWT your overall description of the situation came through more succinctly than the link you provided. 

      • OnceWasTim 4.3.1

        Well if you don't like that link @ Anne, I have plenty of others.  And as you will know, many of those officials don't have a vindictive bone in their bodies. (/sarc)

        I happen to think both JA and H1 will probably go down in history as being two of NZ's best PMs. (Or should that be one of NZs best PMs?)

        However IF  JA really wants to be kind and transformative, she needs to get herself a decent H2 style shit kicker, otherwise the recent history of the Labour Party will be just one damn thing after another, and a waste of another bloody harsh virus (neo-liberalism being one of the others)  

    • Tricledrown 4.4

      Move those workers to where they are needed ie tourist workers to vineyards and orchards give them a campervan most are sitting idle.

  5. Molly 5

    I start to question my sanity when I find myself agreeing with the Taxpayer's Union – (albeit knowing that they are just Government bashing as they do).

    Shovel-ready projects get the green light to go ahead under new infrastructure law

    "The cost of SkyPath has already blown out multiple times, to $200 for every household in the country.

    "Giving this project an RMA exemption doesn't turn it into a good investment. Funding would be better spent on infrastructure that improves productivity for the many, not just a subset of Takapuna-based lycra enthusiasts."

    The Skypath proposal is one that could stay shovel-ready and not get done, until other investment in our infrastructure is complete – health and mental health investment for instance. They’ve been ready and waiting for investment for years.

    While I disagree on the shape of the reforms to the RMA that they endorse, I do agree that shovel-ready projects, follows the BAU approach to infrastructure investment.  And we should be requiring a new perspective before putting such money into "nice to haves"  instead of "need to haves" or resilience projects.

    The fact that they are "shovel ready" doesn't guarantee good investment outcomes that are shared as equitably as possible.  It also doesn't prioritise spending wisely – just spending.

     

    • Ad 5.1

      What's an investment outcome supposed to look like for a cycling project?

      Very few pt or cycling projects would survive a solid Treasury Value For Money review. 

      • Molly 5.1.1

        " Very few pt or cycling projects would survive a solid Treasury Value For Money review.  "

        For a start, including SROI (Social Return on Investment) or an environmental return on investment, should see this change.  And if cycling projects still don't meet the value for money review – then they shouldn't happen at present.  We have a lot of NZers  looking for basic needs and support, look after them first.  The Skypath is not a basic need.

         

        • greywarshark 5.1.1.1

          Molly – the middle class have decided that cycling is their thing, suits their individualism and is healthy and clean-living,fit, modern people do it.; the very example of 'going forward'.    And they tend to ride their bikes fast, and generally behave as they would in a car. But biking being an agreed benefit to all, ticking the above boxes of health etc., it has become a sacred icon for the said m/c.   

          It also allows them to trespass on public spaces for room to carry out its aggressive side, mountain biking, BMX racing and dirt jumping.   There they throw themselves round knowing that they will be fixed by free hospital treatment and helped by ACC.    Areas agreed for mountain bike tracks have cleared areas that are treed and were part of the environment enjoyable for walkers in Nelson.    But that isn't enough for these bikers – they have cut and cleared illegally to make new tracks to suit themselves.    Looked at dispassionately, they are just land clearers repeating the colonial measures of the past but with a greenwash, that of being a healthy sport in the outdoors.   

          The bike sport fraternity are often destructive and really just a different version of the petrolheads, demolition derby fans, mud plugs and racing car enthusiasts; though most of those are contained to agreed tracks.  The advent of 4Wdrives, with tv ads showing them driving in the outdoors like real men, up rivers destroying and polluting them, if they want to go there, have further encouraged this idea of misuse of the countryside for the machine-mad male with no appreciation of nature or being a natural human either.

        • lprent 5.1.1.2

          The problem with the SROI is that typically the cycling calculations assume a slow climb in usage compared to what actually happens. Quite unlike the NZTA or treasury approach to roads with always assumes a exponential car usage growth – that usually doesn’t happen.

          If either used realistic analysis based on their continuous past failures, then most of the roads that have done recently it wouldn’t be funded. If they used the actual results from their previous screwups of estimating ROIs from PT or cycle lanes than almost all would be.

          The growth in traffic on most installed cycle lanes and effective PT invariably climbs more rapidly than NZTA expectations. Just the same as what happens when the public transport is upgraded – which is why the northern busway now has continuous double decker buses at peak hours – and we don’t need a new uber expensive bridge or tunnel. Similarly the double tracking and electrification of the Auckland has exceeded expectations in almost every year since they were done. The only thing that seems to slow them down is the work being done on the next upgrade.

          But it is a chicken and egg as can be easily seen when the cycle lanes are put in. You have to have cycle lanes before you get much cycle traffic on them. You find out the need after you put them in. But typically they are incredibly cheap.

          In Auckland, all cyclists and scooter riders are scared shitless of the ignorant dangerous drivers and their parked cars. We’ve all had near death experiences from drivers inadvertently trying to kill us. Put in a cycle way and watch the cyclist traffic increase massively over several years. Try walking on the north western cycle way or even the grafton gully cycleway at 5pm and you’ll see what I mean. I’m looking forward to being able to actually ride down K Rd without the fear of imminent death or injury. Be nice if they did the same thing on Ponsonby Road.

          Where there aren’t cycleways, many cyclists and virtually all scooter riders prefer to ride on pedestrian paths – thereby endangering pedestrians. Somehow this social saving isn’t anywhere in the SROI – along with most of the other real social benefits.

          Nor a re most of the economic benefits because they are unknowable before the project is put into place. In the case of the SkyPath, it simply means that a whole area who currently have no ability to commute to the north shore by bike (in my case) or from the north shore can now start to do so. Trying to even figure out the effects of that are damn near impossible to figure out in advance. It is simply guesswork. About the only thing that is obvious is that it’d be way cheaper than any possible roading project in Auckland.

          In short – your position is just spurious bullshit based on a selective unthinking analysis of how the SROI is currently calculated.

          • Molly 5.1.1.2.1

            My family are cyclists, not so much commuter cyclists now because of commuting distances, so I agree we have some way to go regarding cyclist safety.

            However, I disagree with the method currently used for identifying, prioritising and implementing projects.  

            This is my objection to this project, and the SROI needs to be applied to others areas of Auckland as well in order to help prioritise.  This doesn't happen.

      • Sanctuary 5.1.2

        Cycle lanes are the classic example of "if you build it they will come" with the sum being greater than it's parts. Fully connected, separated cycleways that go to useful places see huge growth.

        The problem is people see them as a cheap panacea for noisy MAMILs & a recreational frippery rather than an important piece of commuter infrastructure. Yet using an e-bike on a proper cycle way to commute in your work clothes is as different from weaving in and out of traffic, footpaths and bits of cycle way on a racing bike whilst clad in your full lycra panoply as taking a guided the great walk in summer is from hacking your way up to the tops on an unmaintained track in the Kawekas in winter.

    • Rosemary McDonald 5.2

      Yes, and Parker was certainly emphatic when being interviewed on Natrad both last night and this morning. Seems happy to sudeline climate change issues, and I'm wondering if he is aware that in the Far North there are already rumblings from domestic water users (aka 'the people') that horticulture and agriculture (aka corporate interests)have more right to water.

      And along with the water requirements is the very real potential for adverse effects of nutrient runoff and heavy agrochemical use.

      As you say Molly, would have been nice to see spending on our tired and dysfunctional health infrastructure prioritised.

       

    • Anne 5.3

      Your concern Molly is much appreciated by this resident who lives on a popular by-route which eventually leads to the harbour bridge and is sick and tired of lycra clad enthusiasts who assume they own the road and its up to the rest of us to get out of their way.

      Any proposal that is going to increase their numbers in my neck of the woods will not be appreciated by locals trying to go about their daily business without cycling fashionistas strung across the road impeding progress for the rest of us.

      • Molly 5.3.1

        That concern should be increased by the knowledge the current budget is $360 million to provide it.

        That kind of investment warrants better scrutiny at this time, especially as it has been a continually growing budget.  The reason it is shovel ready is because there has been a staunch group of supporters continually banging on about it for years.  Not because it is an equitable and valuable use of government budget.

        (I also note the inclusion of numbers in terms of the pitiful amount of jobs intended to be created, but nothing in terms of the actual spend being reported.)
         

         

      • gsays 5.3.2

        You got my attention with lycra clad. 

        I think I am old now, as some 'trends' get me all curmudgeonly.

        Active wear does it. Especially on waiting staff. I have no desire for a camel-toe with my lasagne nor a broccoli stalk with my coffee.

        • Shanreagh 5.3.2.1

          I call them 'lycra louts'. That generally gets them going.  

          Not all cyclists belong to this genus.  These ones, apart from the skin tight and unfaltering plumage are most often found in inner city Wellington on a Saturday morning crawling 2/3/4 abreast up Raroa Road presumably on a run out to Makara/Ohariu Valley/J'ville.  They wiggle slowly up this steep street failing to pull over.  On my way to work some times I have counted 14 cars behind me, some at stalling speed. 

          They are able to multi task, ie give the finger to anyone who wishes to go past them.  

          They mob cafes to the exclusion of others. Their cry is distinctive too with the sounds of entitlement being the top notes.  

          Got no problems with unproblematic riders who respect other road users just as I do.  

      • lprent 5.3.3

        The general way to deal with them is to put in some cheap cycle paths that separate cars from cycles. Or an even simpler method would be just get rid of parked cars on roads.

        I know when I am commuting (usually in work jeans) I use the cycle lanes where they are available.

        But if I have to cycle on the road, I leave at least a metre from the parked cars. That is because of the idiots who seem to try to open doors on me every day. That provides enough room to avoid the doors that get flung open in front of me by drivers who neither look in their wing mirror nor partially open the door and look back.

        These self-entitled idiots are the primary reason why cyclists ride so far out into the lane.

        That means that I take up a third of the usual car lane and means that cars going around me and passing at metre put at least half their body into the incoming lane (2/3rds for the SUV trucks).

    • xanthe 5.4

      So i went and googled skypath and ended up with this

      "The Northern Pathway project will provide a seamless dedicated walking and cycling link between Auckland’s City Centre and the North Shore which will connect with existing local paths to extend the region’s walking and cycling network."

      As far as i am concerned i dont care how much it costs it has to be done and should have been long ago!

      To suggest that we should instead put the money into health and mental health shows a complete disconnect from reality

      • Molly 5.4.1

        Oh, you googled Skypath and came up with …. what?

        I've been following the Skypath discussion for years, and at no time, does it ever go into the realms of providing an equitable use of transport monies across the region, or seek to justify the spend in terms of social returns.  It has always been a case of:

        " As far as i am concerned i dont care how much it costs it has to be done and should have been long ago! "

        Great justification…

        This has been highlighted as shovel-ready projects to be invested in.  There are other needs and projects that are awaiting funding, some in health and mental health.

        "To suggest that we should instead put the money into health and mental health shows a complete disconnect from reality"

        But if you are insistent on keeping the funding sector appropriate – we could instead invest the money into improving the pitiful service and access to public transport and alternative transport infrastructure in other areas of Auckland that exist without the vocal ranting brigade.

        The continual rubber-band bounceback to BAU in terms of prioritising infrastructure, is going to continue the path of inequitable access that we were previously on. 

        I think this should change. 

        • roblogic 5.4.1.1

          10 years of moaning from the small minded objectors to SkyPath. It's painful how obvious the need is to expand the harbour crossing to active modes of transport. Public demand is driving the project, car addicts need to learn to share public space for a change.

          • Molly 5.4.1.1.1

            Vocal demand is driving the project.

            Equitable access for prioritisation, funding and implementation is not.

            That is my primary objection, and remains so.

            • roblogic 5.4.1.1.1.1

              The difference with the "Northern Pathway" is that the mode share over the harbour bridge is currently 0% ; you could do lots of other little projects all over Auckland with similar funding but there is still a fundamental disconnect with the North Shore. If it's fairness you're concerned about, the models indicate that the proposed pathway will get even more usage than the Northwestern cycleway. It's the cheapest possible alternative to a new harbour crossing.

  6. Rapunzel 6

    After numerous news stories on the National Party donation fraud case not guilty pleas in Feb, & other than a Parliamentary privileged comment by JLR in March that was reported on, there has been no mention of the case due to be in court last week on the 10th June. It's surprising there has been no mention in media of it whatsoever, whether the case has started as intended or not?

    • tc 6.1

      Media's very economical when it comes to any  untoward news around brand national.

      Watching Tova tell Clarke even labour voters don't trust him (another survey) and constantly bleating out the gotcha questions shows where they're heading.

  7. Peter Chch 7

    'Mosque gunman wrongly granted firearms licence'.

    For many years it has been apparent that the NZ Police need a major shakeup. Ever try dealing with them? Lazy and incompetent at best. Lying and deceitful at worst. From the idiot Commissioner Bush who thought the corrupt cops in the Arthur Allen Thomas case had 'integrity beyond reproach' to the blatantly corrupt Doone, the rot clearly starts at the top and trickles down. 

    The lazy p****s who approved this licence should be in court charged with vicarious liability. But we all know they won't.  there will be an internal Police inquiry, which will drag on for two years or so and then be quietly buried.

     

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/120285768/mosque-terrorist-was-wrongly-granted-firearms-licence-due-to-police-mistakes-sources-say

    • gsays 7.1

      I heard on the tranny that the Police Commissioner wants gun licensing to be sub-contracted out.

      Possibly making accountability less likely.


      [Fixed typo in user handle]

  8. Ad 8

     

    Just to show that you can get recreational shooting, conservation, national parks, and foodbanks in the one sentence … 

    …. Fiordland Wapiti Foundation, Game Animal Council, and Department of Conservation (DOC) are partnering to provide 18,000kg of free-range wild Fiordland venison to New Zealand foodbanks and families in need. Each year the Fiordland Wapiti Foundation, working with DOC, conducts a deer cull in Fiordland National Park removing up to 1000 animals.

    “Weather permitting, by the end of next month, we will have removed 600 deer from Fiordland National Park for processing into 18,000 1kg wild venison mince packets. These are being distributed by a charitable supply chain distributor to foodbanks throughout the country. This will feed thousands of New Zealand families in need,” says Roy Sloan, Fiordland Wapiti Foundation President. 

    Last time I stopped in Haast, there was a little hamburger stand selling the most awesomest, juiciest, sweetest venison steak hamburgers I've ever had, and they came straight out of the Fiordland culling programme. 

    Take them all out team. 

     

    • mauī 8.1

      barbaric.

    • bwaghorn 8.2

      Good stuff. Wild venison is massive blind spot in nz at present.  

      The choppers are shooting and leaving them down the rd from home at this very moment to protect the young manuka  

      Had a guy telling me just recently they shot 40 plus deer to protect their feed crops in the autumn   

      Almost plaque proportions at work and at home around here  

      The decimate native regeneration, and must surely be a risk of spreading TB again . 

  9. Molly 9

    If only idiots in positions of influence with public platforms for their inane mutterings WERE a minority…

    'I am a minority': David Seymour criticises Andrew Little's response to Black Lives Matter protesters

    • Gabby 9.1

      Just not quite a small enough minority.

    • Pingao 9.2

      Didn't that moron Jacqui Dean say she was an "ethnic minority" … (because she is a woman).

      As for David, he seems to be going after the white supremacist and sympathizers vote.

  10. Stephen D 10

    Todd made National policy lurch to the left in his Te Puna speech. I do wonder what the likes of Collins and Goldsmith make of this. Should the next poll still show National in the low 30's and Muller below 15, will there be another coup?

     

  11. Tricledrown 11

    Health system in for massive shake up.

    Long overdue.

    Covid 19 would have been an absolute disaster had it not been stopped in its tracks.

    National are largely to blame with its sinking lid policies and leaky buildings by way of defunding and wrecking the building codes.

    After 9 years we were left with the worst health system in the OECD. National wanted a privatized health system given Woodhouse now a former private hospital middle manager and Coleman another private health hawk.

    By running down the health system to push people into buying private health insurance.

    • AB 11.1

      Private health insurance is always a bridgehead from which the public system can be attacked. If you don't eradicate it, you will spend a lifetime fighting its incursions. Neither option is pleasant.

    • millsy 11.2

      It isnt the shake up that it is made out to be. I read the 274 page report. It is bascially just changing a few letterheads and re-writing a few contracts.

      It doesnt recommend reducing or scrapping co-payments, for a start, which is one of the big barriers of access to services.

  12. Idiot/Savant is attacking the Greens, saying that they are "footstools", for supporting Labour's draconian 2-year ditching of RMA requirements for major projects, shutting the public out of the process (except for seldom heard submissions to the select committee). David Parker should hang his head in shame-he had a bit of a train-wreck interview on Morning Report trying to justify this today.

    http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2020/06/steamrolling-democracy.html

    In fact the Greens have only supported this to the first reading. It is quite normal to support legislation to the first reading where the details can then be seen as to what is proposed. 

    I doubt very much they will give it support any further. At least I hope not. It will probably pass with the help of the Nats and NZF, which says it all. 

    Meanwhile submissions in opposition should be lodged (by those who care about democracy) at the select committee stage. 

  13. Morrissey 13

     

    Palestine Bleeds: Execution of Autistic Man is the Norm, not an Exception

    by RAMZY BAROUD, Counterpunch, 12 June 2020

    A 32-year-old man with the mental age of an 8-year-old child was executed by Israeli soldiers on May 30, while crouching behind his teacher near his special needs school in the Old City of Jerusalem.

    The cold-blooded murder of Iyad al-Hallaq might not have received much attention if it were not for the fact that it took place five days following the similarly heartbreaking murder of a 46-year-old black man, George Floyd, in Minneapolis, at the hands of American police.

    The two crimes converge, not only in their repugnancy and the moral decadence of their perpetrators, but also because countless American police officers have been trained in Israel, by the very Israeli ‘security forces’ that killed al-Hallaq. The practice of killing civilians, with efficiency and callousness, is now a burgeoning market. Israel is the biggest contributor to this market; the US is the world’s largest client.

    When thousands of people rushed to the streets in Palestine, including hundreds of Palestinian and Israeli Jewish activists in Jerusalem, chanting “Justice for Iyad, justice for George”, their cry for justice was a spontaneous and heartfelt reaction to injustice so great, so blatant.

    Al-Hallaq’s story might appear particularly unique, as the ‘suspected terrorist’ was killed while merely walking in King Faisal Street in Jerusalem, on his way to take out the trash. He was afraid of soldiers and terrified of blood.

    “He was also afraid of the armed police officers who stood along the route to the special needs center he went to, where he participated in a vocational training program,” the Israeli newspaper, Haaretz, reported.

    Al-Hallaq’s many fears, which may have appeared exaggerated by his family, turned out to be true. Even an autistic person in Palestine is not safe from the vengeance of soldiers. ….

    Read more….

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/06/12/palestine-bleeds-execution-of-autistic-man-is-not-an-exception-but-the-norm/

  14. RedBaronCV 14

    I wonder if they have considered maybe retraining some of the airline employees in the next couple of months. The cropping season is still a little way away so time to do some workforce planning maybe. Drive a Boeing – maybe they could drive these too

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/121833517/contractors-fear-lack-of-local-workers-to-fill-hundreds-of-harvest-roles

    But it does look like we could do with some serious rural workforce planning. In the last few months we have had concerns about a workforce for vineyard machinery,  calving and the flush of the dairy season, the harvesting machinery and general overall harvesting workforce. That way these could be end to end jobs and I know soem already do that in the horticultural field.  

    Also have any of these considered the jobs they are offering. I know that  machinery needs to be worked dawn to dusk in season but running the workforce in 40  hour shifts may be more acceptable. Plus looking at providing some half time roles or encouraging more women/ older people into the rural workforce.

    • McFlock 14.1

      Paying a decent wage might help, too.

    • Augustus 14.2

      Training or retraining people costs more than importing some someone else has trained. If it takes two years to be ready, as they say, then train now and there will be no more problem in two years time. But this problem of 'cant find workers' has persisted for far longer than two years, hence it's safe to conclude that no permanent solution is desired. Just cost cutting.

      • RedBaronCV 14.2.1

        Some how for this I seriously doubt that it takes two years of training if  "some farmer friends can jump in and help".   Being able to drive a tractor  doubtless helps a lot but a HT licence, good spatial and motor skills and a few brains would go a very long way. A boeing pilot should be very retrainable.

        And if it was so skilled then any contingent  travelling from country to country would include a fair few NZer's who have been trained here plus a great deal higher wage.

        Looks like they are over cooking the skills and  training needed coupled with, as McFlock puts it lousy wages, to keep up the cost cutting.  Perhaps they could solve their own problem by dealing with the upgraded government training courses and lend their machines for some practice runs

         

  15. Peter Chch 15

    Two new covid 19 cases in NZ.

    Inevitable I guess, but let's just hope the quarantine procedures are a lot better than was reported on TV1 news last week. Any system is only as good as its weakest link, and clearly the Hotel quarantine was the weak link.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12340250

    • Andre 15.1

      I'm going to be particularly interested in what Bloomfield has to say at 3:00 today about this little wrinkle:

      It is thought the two new cases were given special exemption to attend a funeral in New Zealand, 1News reports.

      If they were let out before their two weeks to spread it in public here, Imma gonna be pissed.

      • McFlock 15.1.1

        [headdesk]
        what the fuck is the point of isolation if there are exemptions.

        • McFlock 15.1.1.1

          ah, misread – thought they'd been given an exemption from isolation – that is so far not addressed.

          • Andre 15.1.1.1.1

            What TVNZ says is:

            1 NEWS understands the cases were given a special exemption to attend a funeral.

            The Ministry of Health confirmed both cases are related to the border as a result of recent travel from the UK, and they're both linked.

            https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/two-new-covid-19-cases-confirmed-breaking-24-day-streak

            Not sure how else to read that other than TVNZ understands they were given an exemption from isolation to go spread it around at a funeral here. Wait and see what Bloomfield says, I guess.

          • bwaghorn 15.1.1.1.2

            We had a funeral here yesterday an aussie family member was allowed in , hearsay is they were allowed down here from Auckland and got20 mins with family and to see the coffin closed. Not sure about ppe etc . Apparently the funeral had well in excess of 1000 attending.  

            • McFlock 15.1.1.1.2.1

              I guess the next funeral cluster will sort out the "exemptions".

              • Macro

                Dr Ashley Bloomfield explained in the briefing this afto that people are not given exemptions to go to a funeral.

                Dr Bloomfield said they had applied for an exemption on Friday 12 June to visit their dying parent and were allowed to travel to Wellington in a private vehicle to do so the following day, on 13 June. Their parent died that night.

                "They were in a managed isolation hotel in Auckland and were permitted on compassionate grounds to leave managed isolation to travel to Wellington via private vehicle."

                He said there one only one additional family member who may be at risk, and they were being tested and isolated. Other potential contacts included people on the same flight from Brisbane and people who were in or had been in the same managed isolation facility in Auckland, including staff.

                "There was an agreed plan in place as a part of the approval process for the compassionate exemption and that included the travel arrangements."

                He said the funeral for the parent would be delayed until family members had completed their next 14-day minimum isolation period.

                https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/419134/two-new-covid-19-cases-in-nz-visited-dying-parent-bloomfield

                • McFlock

                  Ah, ok – fair call then. Not ideal, but human.

                • Andre

                  The wording is a little ambiguous as to when they traveled and when their parent died.

                  If they left to drive to Wellington before their parent died, then I withdraw and apologise for my comments today.

                  If their parent died before they started their drive, I stand by my comments because the exemption should have been withdrawn.

                  • Macro

                    From watching the briefing the parent died the evening the two arrived in Wellington. I had a similar experience with my mother. I got a call at work that my mum was dying, caught a plane from Auckland to Wellington that afternoon, and was with her for about half an hour before she died.

                    • Andre

                      Stuff is reporting a different timeline:

                      June 12

                      The women applied for a compassionate exemption after the sudden death of a parent that night.

                      June 13

                      The women are permitted, on compassionate grounds, to leave managed isolation to travel to Wellington, via private vehicle.

                      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121851190/coronavirus-our-expectations-have-not-been-met-says-pm

                    • Macro

                      Hmm that puts a different spin on it. I'm not sure – having listened to Dr Bloomfield's briefing – that that is a fair representation. The RNZ report, I feel, is more accurate.

                      Dr Bloomfield said they had applied for an exemption on Friday 12 June to visit their dying parent and were allowed to travel to Wellington in a private vehicle to do so the following day, on 13 June. Their parent died that night.

                      Now it could be argued that the "that night" refers to 12 June, the day they applied for the exemption, to visit a dying parent. But the juxtaposition of the last sentence with the statement that they travelled to Wellington on the 13th strongly implies that the Parent died on the night of the 13th

                      The media are not above trying to stir up controversy for the sake of it. Especially Stuff.

            • RedBaronCV 15.1.1.1.2.2

              I really really hope that the rumour is not true.

    • ianmac 15.2

      Peter if you are referring to the Avatar team's arrival at the Quarantine hotel, it would be good to get your facts right. The mixing in the foyer was with an American family staying at the hotel.

      The arriving Avatar team were bussed to the hotel. They were taken in small groups through a separate door each wearing face shields into a separate room for debriefing and instruction. They were then taken under escort one at a time in the lift to each individual's room where they stayed for 2 weeks, finishing yesterday. They did not even mix with their colleagues during the time in seclusion or allowed out for a walk anywhere.

      • Andre 15.2.1

        Read the linked article. It's not paywalled. Stuff says the same things. Doesn't look like anything to do with Avatar.

      • observer 15.2.2

        The TV1 news report Peter refers to showed how loose the quarantine was.

      • McFlock 15.2.3

        That was the initial story.

        Apparently, though, they fucked it up and there was indeed a <2M contact.

      • Peter Chch 15.2.4

        Ianmac, how about YOU get YOUR facts right. Just Google it. Absolutely nothing to do with Avatar. It was Kiwis returning to NZ.

        They mixed throughout their stay on crowded city streets on guided walks. Newly arrived returnees were mixing with those on their last day or days of quarantine. 

         

        • ianmac 15.2.4.1

          OK Peter. I assumed wrongly though the Avatar story was published wrongly. Sorry.

          Seems as though they were taking all the precautions in today's pair. Hope so.

          • Peter Chch 15.2.4.1.1

            Ianmac. All good! And thank you for addressing that, for which I respect you! I was surprised, as I always enjoy your posts which are well thought out. Cheers!

    • observer 15.3

      Since we reached zero the media have run various stories about the heartless government not making a quarantine exception (and another, and another exception, and so on). And of course the opposition demands for borders opening ASAP.

      But don't worry, nothing bad could happen, job done, blah blah …

      Idiots.

      • Sanctuary 15.3.1

        +100 – hopefully that bleating will stop now.

        And given the clusterfuck the UK and USA is, lets just throw into the sea anyone who arrive from there.

      • AB 15.3.2

        Watch all the various 'giants' of the NZ media swing from previously saying the restrictions were too harsh, to now saying they are too loose. 

    • mary_a 15.4

      Peter Chch (15) … Disappointing to read this news of two new cases of Covid-19. 

      IMO our borders should be closed … full stop, no exceptions, no negotiation, until there is a means of controlling this paricular virus. These two new cases demonstrate the need for doing so.

  16. Anker 16

    Agree mary about the boarders.

    during lockdown so furious with selfish people who bleated on about attending funerals or visiting sick and dying loved ones.   And now this

    • left_forward 16.1

      "bleated on…" – not very compassionate Anker.

      Pull yourself together – there are legitimate grounds for compassion – in this case, the exemption conditions may very well have worked as designed – if not, I am sure it will be valuable grist for the mill in reviewing future procedures at our 'bo(a)rders'.

      • anker 16.1.1

        Yes happy to put my hand up on this one that I don't feel a lot of compassion.  terrified with good reason about Covid getting a hold here and think everyone will/might have to make scarifices. 

        Given this situation and the situation with two teenagers given leave to go to a funeral and then absconding time to make it real simple.   No exception to isolation.

  17. joe90 17

    One of the new C19 patients said that in retrospect, they displayed symptoms. But they're allowed to self isolate.

    FFS.

  18. Andre 18

    What the ACTUAL FUCK, Jacinda and Ashley??!!???

    A funeral is for a dead person. A stiff. Their metabolic processes are history. Shuffled off this mortal coil. 4 million volts isn't enough to create an interaction with them.

    Giving people exemptions from isolation to go spread disease in order to go hang out with a corpse is NOT GOOD ENOUGH. To go say their last goodbyes while someone still lives – fair enough. But not once they've already passed.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300036071/covid19-directorgeneral-of-health-gives-detail-on-two-new-cases

    • McFlock 18.1

      Not very impressed, I must say.

      • Andre 18.1.1

        I'm fkn furious. Just as well I'm not voting today or tomorrow.

        • left_forward 18.1.1.1

          What you would vote for National? They would have gotten these difficult calls right wouldn't they!

          • Andre 18.1.1.1.1

            You're not helping.

            • left_forward 18.1.1.1.1.1

              Apologies Andre – I didn't intend to support your over reaction or wind you up. Nobody has a script for this, not even Jacinda and Ashley, who you appear to have put on a pedestal. This is an error at worst – a learning which will modify the border procedures and compassionate exemption policies.

               

               

              • Andre

                I'm coming down slowly. Give me a couple days and I should be back on an even keel.

                I think Ashley and Jacinda have done an absolutely outstanding job – but this was a really dumb unforced error. I hope the lesson and action taken is to assume everyone arriving is a raging hotbed of maximum infectiousness, until proven otherwise. The common good of 5 million people has to come ahead of compassion for situations that aren't absolutely time-critical. Someone in their last days is time-critical, after they've passed is not.

                I have a nephew and sister-in-law in France that got COVID early on. They're still suffering severe aftereffects. I have a cousin in the US that's a doctor in respiratory intensive care, and her husband is a doctor in the emergency department. From what I've heard from them, mainstream reports about COVID seem somewhat sanitised and downplayed.

                The elimination we had achieved is immensely valuable, risking it needs to only be done for something equally valuable.

    • Peter Chch 18.2

      Yes, the lockdown has cost NZ billions, and to throw it away so easily? Kiss of death for this government and Ashley NY honours list. And deservedly so. 

      Sad as PM did a great job with a hard task, but this is beyond stupidity.

      9 days on the loose. How many are now infected? Nz was in the privileged position of having eliminated the virus and being able to control the entry or exclusion of the virus.
      From way back in early March, we knew the borders were our vulnerable point, yet, from early March, time and time again we have learned, from th MSM, that what this government says about the borders and what is actually happening is vastly different.

      Move over Jacinda, your time is up.

       

      • observer 18.2.1

        Peter, take a breath. Watch the full press conference with Bloomfield, if you haven't already. Really detailed answers, with a whole range of safeguards in place.

        It's not at all surprising that an individual case has happened. It's the policy that matters. Opening up our borders now would be stupid, and so we're not doing it.

        • Peter Chch 18.2.1.1

          Observer. Will do. I not in a position to do that at moment, but, in face value, I am angry. But will watch an hope safeguards are all good!

           

          But yes, expected more cases, just hope process is good.

      • RedBaronCV 18.2.2

        I don't get it either. Apparently we have testing to burn so why were we not testing on arrival, 5 days later and then again at 10 days and 14 days. These people were in the managed quarantine between it appears the 5th and the 13th of June so surely they would have been symptomatic? Is quarantine being managed in pods or did they have contact with people between 5th-13th that have been released already?  What about the family contact in wellington – who have they had contact with? What about border staff – and quarantine staff and airline staff. And it's taken 16 days to find this out when symptoms can be tested for in the 5-10 day range. And how do we "know" they followed all the rules when they didn't bother to report symptoms- big fail right there. As others say FFS – there are so many obvious gaps in the arrangements.. 

        • gsays 18.2.2.1

          A similar conversation has gone down in this household.

          Apparently there are 2 hour tests available.

          A baby with a sniffle, that had barely left it's home environment, no visitors, got swabbed in ED last night because Covid…

          And yet…

          From what has been said so far, the one that has tested positive, either fibbed when asked the ubiquitous screening questions or answered a different question to that which was asked.

      • Peter 18.2.3

        Yes Peter Chch and Andre. It's what you get when you don't have black and white, hard and fast, delineated rules which are meticulously enforced.

        When factors to do with 'humanity' and exemptions and judgements and assessments come into it you get problems.

        Trouble is numbers in the population screamed about hard and fast rules mitigating against humanitarian factors over months. 

        If we had hard and fast rules mentality, no weighing up of factors involved, everyone doing 51kph would be fined heavily pro forma, cars would be permanently taken off those doing 10kph over the limit and so on according lists of rules.

        The no exemptions thing for those coming into the country would go on at least until a vaccine is developed however long that is.

        Of course this shocking turn of events wouldn't have happened under Simon Bridges' watch.  (Remember him?)  

        Andre is right, a funeral is for a dead person, a stiff shuffled off this mortal coil. This situation shows though that it's not the dead that are the worry or whatever their loved ones do but the hysteria about that from deadshits.

    • left_forward 18.3

      The funeral was not for a parrot, but for a fellow human being. I'm not convinced the risk is worth it either, but in your anger, don't lose all your humanity.

       

      • Andre 18.3.1

        During Level 4, people within New Zealand were prohibited from going to say their last goodbyes to loved ones. I count myself very fortunate my dad survived his medical emergency during that time that I was prohibited from travelling to go see him when he was on the edge. FFS, my mother was prohibited from going to see him in the hospital, in a region that had zero cases at that time.

        To put us all at risk of having to go back to that for the sake of an already dead body – just plain unacceptable

        • left_forward 18.3.1.1

          Yes, you are right, but have faith in our capacities to learn from a mistake. I would far prefer that the error stemmed from having too much compassion than the opposite – otherwise we are no different to the right wingers.

      • joe90 18.3.2

        Being absolutely filthy because someone's feelz about a piece of dead meat likely put multiple lives at risk isn't losing losing your humanity.

      • Hooch 18.3.3

        Fair enough but they can’t attend the funeral now anyway so there was no point in releasing them. All it’s done is needlessly expose us. No exemptions from now on, people living here couldn’t get them during lockdown.

  19. observer 19

    Dr Ashley Bloomfield showed why he is a doctor, not a politician or reporter or "commentator". And a good human being.

    He calmly explained the details of the case, and refused to throw the two women under the bus. They will be feeling like sh*t right now, and Bloomfield understands that. They did not break the rules, they followed them. If there was a loophole it was in the NZ system. He takes responsibility for that (as he should).

    I hope that the focus is now on highlighting the complacency of those who want open borders, not on hounding two victims of the virus, already bereaved.

    • joe90 19.1

       

      One patient admitted to in retrospect feeling symptoms, yet decided to wing it.

      They're to blame.

      • observer 19.1.1

        Well, I won't be casting a stone. I'm sure that hypothetically we all would have acted differently. In reality … when you've crossed the world to see a dying loved one? When the system tells you it's all under control? When you look around and you're the only ones wearing face masks and you're still following the rules?

        Let's hope none of us ever find out what we do.

        • joe90 19.1.1.1

          They knew they were symptomatic. Bury them.

        • Peter Chch 19.1.1.2

          Observer. You are clearly a better person than me, and that i respect.

          Ashley Bloomfield is, as you say, is a doctor and a compassionate person.but right now, maybe we need someone who is also a little bit of a dictator.  Level 4 was a dictate. Now I feel what's the point?

          The elite say one thing, we are coerced to do another. To say I am disappointed in our PM and Ashley would be an understatement. 

           

          • observer 19.1.1.2.1

            I think the key point is that the women were not tested, and they should have been, and that is NZ's fault, not theirs. It is not their job to say to health professionals "hang on, your system isn't good enough". Especially when they are in emotional distress. Now Bloomfield is suggesting that the procedures have been / will be changed. Good.

            A good doctor does not blame patients. Nor should we.

    • Fireblade 19.2

      Here is the Ministry of Health media release about the two new cases reported today.

      https://www.health.govt.nz/news-media/media-releases/two-new-cases-covid-19-0

      • joe90 19.2.1

        including not having any contact with anyone on the journey or using any public facilities.

         

        Strange visitors from another country, who came to Aoteoroa with powers and abilities far beyond those of mere mortals!

        Akl – Well on a single tank! Cast iron bladders!

         

        • mauī 19.2.1.1

          They are women.. of course they have cast iron bladders.

          • RedBaronCV 19.2.1.1.1

            I suspect they watered the landscape as so many of us have done in past times. The trick is to check the sight lines – thought I had once – then along came the train.

            • observer 19.2.1.1.1.1

              There seems to be far more media interest in women's bladders at Level 1 than in Simon Bridges' bladder at Level 4. I don't know why he got a free piss – er, pass.

  20. observer 20

    I honestly thought this was an "Onion"-type satire.

    National MP defends Confederate Flag

    What is wrong with these people?

  21. Eco Maori 21

    Kia Ora 

    Newshub.

     

    The apprentice program  is good Aotearoa needs to keep training our youth to have a bright future.

    That's the way using the Internet for new mahi. 

    It is quite warm for this time of the year and location

    Ka kite Ano. 

  22. Eco Maori 22

    Kia Ora 

    Te Ao Maori Marama. 

    You see what I have previously said about the system$ .

     

    The positive thing about the tiki tour Wahine with the virus is there will better management off the virus quarantine facility's. 

    The hinaki sound like a good place for the person who let that happen. 

    Aroha is the correct way for the future. 

    PEE destroys tangata Mana. 

    Ka kite Ano 

     

     

  23. Eco Maori 23

    Kia Ora 

    The Am Show. 

    Its good to see more plastic being made biodegradable 

    Volunteers do good work in Aotearoa. 

    Wow 4 baby's at once looks like she has it sorted. 

    The in Australian dinosaur shows that humanity is a mire minute in time and we are making a huge mess of our environment. 

    Ka kite Ano. 

     

  24. Eco Maori 24

    Kia Ora 

    Newshub. 

    With some of the problems being flushed out for virus isolation I think that they will get it correct. 

    That's is cool video games helping Rangatahi with ADHD 

    Ka kite Ano 

  25. Eco Maori 25

    Kia Ora 

    Te Ao Maori Marama. 

    I have seen what it's like in Tamiki Makaru a lot of people were looking down on Maor.

     Interesting but I have a good idea who has  treated all tangata whenua the best and has the best interest for our Mokopuna futures That's who Eco Maori tau toko.

    Ka kite Ano 

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