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Open mike 16/04/2012

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 16th, 2012 - 64 comments
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Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

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Step right up to the mike…

64 comments on “Open mike 16/04/2012 ”

  1. Jenny 1

    The second in the series of the The Green Party mining our future community tour hui is to be held tonight, 7pm, Monday, 16 April, 2012

    Green Party MPs Catherine Delahunty and Gareth Hughes invite you to discuss the Government’s broad “drill it, mine it” agenda for Aotearoa – what’s happening, what does it mean to our environment and communities and how do we stop it.

    Where – The Hamilton Trade Union Centre, 34 Harwood Street, Hamilton

    Hamilton and the Waikato Region was the Ground Zero for the anti-nuclear movement.

    No Nuclear Ship was ever going to visit Hamilton. Yet National MP for Hamilton West Mike Minogue and National MP for Raglan Marilyn Waring swayed by the power of the mass protest movement moved their votes to the opposition upsetting the government’s majority.

    Likewise the anti climate change struggle Hamilton and the Waikato Region could be again ground zero, being the North Island centre of both dairying and coal mining.

    With the Greens at record highs in the polls the subjects being discussed here may well end up in government policy. So make sure you have your say.

    • Morrissey 1.1

      Mike Minogue and National MP for Raglan Marilyn Waring swayed by the power of the mass protest movement moved their votes to the opposition upsetting the government’s majority.

      It’s a depressing exercise to compare the calibre of National Party MPs in 1984 with this year’s crop.

      The National Party MPs are much more tightly controlled now, and I can’t see any National MP with the intellect or the integrity or the courage of Waring or Minogue—or Ian Shearer for that matter.

  2. vto 3

    Doug Graham was a disappointment on 60 Minutes last night. Failed to acknowledge that some crimes do not require criminal intent, such is their gravitas. Failed to accept rsponsibility for Lombard’s failure and instead blamed the GFC and property market collapse (he doesn’t seem to realise that not all financiers failed – only those with useless business models). Kept saying that he didn’t “steal” the money, despite theft not being the charge.

    As a former Minister of Justice he showed scant and shallow understanding of the justice system and its centuries of establishment. Which led me directly to a view that arises all too frequently – most all politicians, including Ministers, are bloody average people of average ability and should not be in the positions they are.

    Useless. Disappointing. What a victim.

    • just saying 3.1

      There’s nothing quite as pathetic as a “poor-me” from one of our ruling class caught-out but still dripping with privilege, and expecting much more sympathy, (and the best judicial redress money can buy) than the victims of his crimes misunderstanding.

      • just saying 3.1.1

        Scratch-out tags on the word “crimes” above didn’t come through.

        • Herodotus

          I did notice that he said that he was capable and would pay the $100k, but that would almost wipe him out financially. Made me laugh as I wonder how his trusts are coping and the pension and other benefits he has acquired over the many years as a politician, I bet they are also protected. Also that he had lost $2m re the shares, did he pay $2m or were they valued at $2m and under what ownership were they held in ?
          The interview came accross to further reinforce the disconnect that pollys have with the voter/worker.

  3. freedom 4


    The poll on this rental discussion makes me personally ashamed to be a kiwi.
    At time of posting, it showed 59 % saying yes to rascism

    • Jilly Bee 4.1

      Ditto freedom – though several years ago I was renting out my late parents’ [modest] house in the Thames area as there had been a few burglaries in the area and we were only able to holiday there once a year due to work commitments. I left the property in the hands of a ‘property manager’ at a Real Estate firm. The non-pakeha family renting the property decided to completely trash the house when my family made the decision to sell up as we decided to retire in the Auckland area and they were given notice to quit. I still remember walking in to what was once a very livable home and simply broke down when I saw the damage. I also vented my spleen at the Property Manager at the time – I felt he was just so incompetent, though I realise they can’t be on hand all the time. The house eventually sold way below its value and some lucky person/s purchased a very cheap property – which has now been totally renovated and restored. I am very aware that a ‘white’ tenant could have inflicted the same damage, but I am still of the opinion that the present criteria for renting properties must remain in place.

    • Rosie 4.2

      Freedom, that is indeed a shameful poll. If you don’t want to feel further ashamed to be a kiwi, don’t read the comments posted on Stuff.co.nz articles – thats my advice! I’ve felt genuine disgust at some of the racist, sexist and generally retarded comments people have made there. I often feel we are going backwards down to the road towards tolerance understanding and compassion. It feels like our society is becoming more divided, elitist and impoverished. (well, we know we are more financially impoverished but I think we are increasingly becoming socially impoverished) Just my observations over the last few years.

      • Draco T Bastard 4.2.1

        The inevitable result of neo-liberalism. When everyone competes with everyone else the result must be the break up of society.

      • Vicky32 4.2.2

        Freedom, that is indeed a shameful poll.

        I voted, ‘No’ of course, then watched the results display, and was deeply depressed…
        When my son was 9, we were homeless for a while, and I was flat hunting. One couple turned me down repeatedly because I was a “South African” (I am not, but they’d decided my accent was south African, and I therefore was a liar.) When I saw the place, and compared what they wanted to charge for it with what it was, I decided not to make an issue of it anyway… 😀
        But the person who made me angry was the middle class ‘lady’ who refused to entertain my application because of my son. “Kids wreck places” she said. I pointed out that her ‘no kids’ deal was illegal, and she just sneered “So, sue me!” knowing that I couldn’t. 

    • Uturn 4.3

      Racism is wrong, it’s stupid, several levels of stupid, and if racism is now embraced as legitimate because profit would be easier if it was, then a whole new depth of moronic expression has been discovered. Once a person either gets over the ethical dilemma of being a landlord, though, or maybe just never realises it exists, I guess they’re pretty much ready to swallow anything.

      • aerobubble 4.3.1

        Racism is wrong. As people like to feel different, so, when a group see many of their own falling behind they can easily be persuaded by themselves to believe racism is prevalent, targeting them. Often talking up traditions that maybe be antithetical to their own success. (i.e. religion is prevalent in poorer areas). Success often become second nature to liberal minded people, whereas conservatism is often swept away by changing times. Suburbs are designed to be anti-communal, and so naturally bring in widely different renters some of whom are already failures. So the dilemma is to screen out those who have impossible world views based around their own victim-hood. It means calling references, it means meeting your potential renters, in means having a mate who can find out if there are gang connected individuals connections. But on a society level it means targeting communities that have been left out by progress.

    • Draco T Bastard 4.4

      You’ll find that the people saying yes to that are people who believe thoroughly in property rights. And they won’t believe that they’re being racist.

      • fender 4.4.1

        But the very same people will cry racism when others object to productive farmland being sold to offshore interests.

  4. Campbell Larsen 5

    The Herald is at it again with cheerleader Audrey inserting a statement of personal opinion, unattributed in the middle of quotes from Blinglish.

    “We’re spending considerable money on it. But every time we make those decisions, we have to find the money somewhere else.”

    Labour wanted to spend the money but not take responsibility for where it came from.

    Asked if there would be room for a rethink, Mr English said: “If the economy picks up and we get back to surplus sooner, then of course there’s room for discussion about all those things that people want us to have more of – but fundamentally we need a growing economy with less debt.”

    This is not only poor journalism it is a blatant attempt to push the National party line. I didn’t see an ‘opinion’ disclaimer at the top of the article, yet it clearly belongs there – Perhaps everyone knows who Audrey is batting for anyway but that does not excuse the practice.

    • Jim Nald 5.1

      This is not the first time from this journalist and others in that paper who have chronic pathological habits of blurring lines between reporting, providing opinion, and indulging in partisan politicking.

      I chose, sometime ago, to reallocate money away from buying that paper and instead to engage in more useful purchases like buying toilet paper.

  5. ianmac 6

    I wonder if the debate and publicity about the proposed legislation over the “Beast of Blenheim” is an unscrupulous action by the Government to fear and crime bubbling along in Public minds? The experts seem to be saying that the existing law covers such problem criminals.

    • Bored 6.1

      The cynic in me says the Nats thinking goes like this….
      1. Lets allow social conditions to get so bad that ordinary people will have to resort to crime…
      2. Lets then add to the crime reports with statements that create a sense of paranoia….
      3. Lets then be seen to tale a hard line (“lori’norda”) approach…
      4. Lets get the very same people affected by our social policies to vote for us to protect us from the crims…

  6. aerobubble 7

    National standards is anti-democratic, as kids learn quite naturally, and education will happen with or without teachers, with or without good teachers. Teachers cannot be held accountable for child outcomes, only an anti-democratic argument could justify such a absurdity. National seek on the one hand undermine mainstream teaching, and on the other hand pass over education to extreme teaching cults via charter schools. Its counter to democracy to have the mandated government despoil the mainstream majority educational system and hand over (often the children of the poor) to indoctrination in charter schools. The profit motive is not the only measure of success, in fact to argue that profits will be aided by forcing the majority of children to rote learning at the expense of free learning is preposterous.

  7. Johnm 8

    The British are regretting privatising so much of their economy because the People are paying for it:

    “Britain for sale: How long before a foreign power turns out Britain’s lights?”

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2130221/Britain-sale-How-long-foreign-power-turns-Britains-lights.html#ixzz1s9luqdcS

    “On Saturday in the Mail, our City Editor Alex Brummer revealed the price we’re all paying in higher bills for having sold off half our companies to foreign owners. Here, in the second extract from his devastating new book, he warns that with so much of our vital utility companies in foreign hands, we are now at the mercy of conglomerates that could bring Britain to a shuddering halt .

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2130221/Britain-sale-How-long-foreign-power-turns-Britains-lights.html#ixzz1s9mCpCjK

    Privatisation has without a doubt made the ordinary English person poorer. It will here as well.

    • Bored 8.1

      After reading the Archdruid last week ( http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.co.nz/ ) I have to laugh at the Brits…they handed over their empire and sovereignty to the US in 1940s as the price for winning the war. Now they as a US imperial vassal are becoming energy dependent on Russia with the associated economic implications.

      Its all the more amusing geo-politically when you consider that the neo lib drive to privatise was first driven hard by the US corporates to capture more profit from the US economic dependents. Now the “loser” of the Cold War has got Europe (and by association the USA) over the barrel. Is this a sure sign of the decline of the US Empire?

    • Johnm 8.2

      Further details of the first part of the above article:

      “UK for sale: Uniquely in the world, Britain has sold more than half its companies to foreigners. And we are all paying the price”

      Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2129507/Britain-sale-Uniquely-world-Britain-sold-half-companies-foreigners-And-paying-price.html#ixzz1s9u8Q0YF

      “British icon? Most London buses are run by a Spanish company”

      “Sell off: Boots is owned by Italians, and headquartered in Switzerland”

      “Deregulation: Former Tory Chancellor Geoffrey Howe made it easier for foreigners to snap up British companies”

      “Stripped: The private equity firms who bought Debenhams left the chain a shadow of its former self”

      “Apathy: No-one seemed to notice – or care – when ICI was snapped up by the Dutch”
      “Paying the price: ICI’s subsequent breakup resulted in the loss of thousands of jobs”
      “‘Global economy’: David Cameron refuses to erect ‘trade barriers’

      “Red lines: Former French President Jacques Chirac stood up for ‘strategic’ companies”

      “Upper hand: Barclays CEO Bob Diamond has threatened to move the bank’s headquarters to New York”

      Extracted from Britain For Sale: British Companies In Foreign Hands by Alex Brummer, to be published by Random House Business Books on April 26, £12.99.© 2012 Alex Brummer. To order a copy for £10.99 (incl p&p) call 0843 382 0000.

      Sounds Familiar ? John Key and Cameron espouse the same ideology.

    • joe90 8.3

      What is surprising is how many state assets the poms have flogged.


    • Draco T Bastard 8.4

      Privatisation has without a doubt made the ordinary English person poorer. It has done so here.


      A good example of that is Telecom. Previously all the surplus that Telecom brought in, to the tune of hundred of millions of dollars per year, would have been re-invested in the network. Now, with privatisation, that surplus is now taken out and given to the owners as dividends and we’re having to cough up taxpayer money to upgrade the network. On top of that we’re also now having to pay for additional competing networks.

      All this extra expense has brought us no benefit whatsoever and that means that we’re poorer.

  8. Pascal's bookie 9

    Has Collins got around to suing anyone yet?

    Last I heard was before Easter and she was going to do it “next week”, which would have been last week.

    • lprent 9.1

      Not as far as I have heard…. 😈

      I guess we’re looking at another car crushing period where the munted posturing is meant to substitute for action.

      • Pascal's bookie 9.1.1

        Right on cue. trev starts tweeting that he’s got a new letter:


        • Te Reo Putake

          And quite rightly points to the reply in Arkell v Pressdram as the appropriate response!

        • lprent

          WTF. That is a classic delaying (but LOOK “I am doing something”) tactic. Why would anyone threatening a defamation suit because they are SURE of their ground want to first look at the oppositions evidence before putting it in front of the court? Ummm because they are unsure about their ground..

          For that matter, why would anyone threatened by such a suit give up their defence when it is quite clear that the other sides uncertainty is their best defence. Of course you give the Private Eye’s answer.

          I thought that Collins was meant to have been a lawyer?

          • Pascal's bookie

            And there’s this:


            “@REvansNZ: @TrevorMallard Do you know which firm/barrister is acting for her?” she said Julian Miles though the letter didn’t come from him

            • Jackal

              Trevor has banned me from his twitter account (because he thought I gave Slater too much of a hard time), but as long as I’m signed out, I can still view his tweets 🙂

              Perhaps Judith Collins has had to look around for a lawyer that will represent her? Although a lawyer cannot decline to take a case because the merits of the matter are questionable, they can easily make another excuse like; “I don’t have the time”.

              It could even be that Collins made instructions that required the lawyer to breach a professional obligation in some way or indicated that she wasn’t willing to pay the lawyers fees.

              What I’m really going to enjoy though is Collins trying to argue that Little and Mallard have caused people to shun or avoid her. I especially look forward to her presenting evidence of their statements causing people to hate, ridicule or be contemptible. Come on people… let’s make sure she has heaps of evidence to present.

    • Kotahi Tane Huna 9.2

      “I demand that you apologise or else I will demand that you apologise again! And then I will stamp my corrupt lying leaking little feet!”

      Is Collins some sort of closet masochist who craves ridicule and humiliation?

    • (A different) Nick K 9.3

      So pleased to see that Collins hasn’t quietly let this go. The more fuss she makes the stupider she’s going to look.

    • David H 9.4

      But she did send out more (are you going to apologise or not) letters to RNZ MALLARD and LITTLE. Nice to see they treated these missives with the same disdain as the originals were.

  9. Morrissey 10

    Monday 16 April 2012
    On the continuing decline of The Panel

    Today Jim Mora’s guests on The Panel are Nevil Gibson (a right wing journalist) and Elly Jones (a right wing journalist).

    So we can expect to hear nothing particularly interesting, yet again.

    These are the guests that have appeared on The Panel over the last two weeks:

    Monday April 2: Gary McCormick, Josie Pagani
    Tuesday April 3: Karl DuFresne, Stephen Franks
    Wednesday April 4: Simon Pound, Chris Trotter
    Thursday April 5: Peter Elliott, Finlay McDonald
    Tuesday April 10: Tony Doe, Gordon McLauchlan
    Wednesday April 11: Jane Clifton, Julia Hartley Moore
    Thursday April 12: Michele Boag, Brian Edwards
    Friday April 13: David Farrar, Neil Miller

    What was that about a “liberal” slant on National Radio?

    • Colonial Viper 10.1

      Boag, Farrar, and Clifton are as even handed as the day is long. No problem there. And where was that other denizen of neutrality, Hooten? He is the only other one who deserves more air time, much more air time.

  10. Phil Heatley has already made up his mind on fracking. On Q&A to day he said he had ‘no concerns.’


  11. fender 13

    Duncan Garner will be sad that some other poor fellow married Paula Bennett on Saturday.

  12. Vicky32 15

    This sounds very familiar!
    In fact, that’s where we get it from, hey? I especially like this line: “but I want the individuals to have the dignity of work.” – the point being that it’s all very well, but meaningless if the work doesn’t exist!

    • Te Reo Putake 15.1

      The dignity of work, but not the dignity of a pay cheque! Good job he’s going to get caned by Obama in the election, eh. The shame of it is that Romney represents the liberal face of the Republican Party and has been derided by the right as being too soft. Funny old world.

      • Vicky32 15.1.1

        The shame of it is that Romney represents the liberal face of the Republican Party and has been derided by the right as being too soft. Funny old world.

        They’re all barking, however. I am always happy that I am not an American, but for the past wee while, their forthcoming elections have been the main reason. Who could I vote for? No one. Obama has failed to stop Bush’s wars, in fact he hasn’t even tried, and all the Republicans are bat-shit crazy…

        • Te Reo Putake

          Yep! An old commo mate of mine used to refer to the Democrats and Republicans as the ‘evil of two lessors’.

  13. toad 16

    Louise Upston this afternoon asks her Nat colleague Sam Lotu-Iinga on Twitter when submissions close on welfare Bill. http://wp.me/phxnb-1et

    They already have – after only 11 working days

    Could only happen in the National Party

  14. Jackal 17

    Racist New Zealand

    Programs like Renters promote discrimination by focusing on ethnic minorities; they also disproportionately put the blame on tenants, when there are many terrible landlords in New Zealand who never get named and shamed…

  15. David 18

    Just been alerted to the brilliant commentary of FAMILIES COMMISSIONER CARL DAVIDSON on the PAID PARENTAL LEAVE debate in the Herald this morning. Astonishing the insight and dodgy logics this Paula Bennett appointed stooge is capable of!

    Previously, the Families Commission had supported PPL extension…

    “But Mr Davidson, appointed that year by Social Development Minister Paula Bennett, told the Weekend Herald that the commission’s 2007 proposal should now be seen as “the gold standard”, which had to change because of the worldwide economic recession.

    He said paid parental leave encouraged people to start families, which was socially and economically desirable but had certain limits.

    “We don’t want to get too carried away of course because that argument could be extended to infinity.

    “I mean, wouldn’t it be great if none of us had to go to work and we could just stay at home and raise our kids and get paid for it?

    “That’s not realistic and there’s a whole lot of people in work who have to juggle the demands of work and the demands of parenting.”

    Mr Davidson also questioned the argument, previously made by his own organisation, that New Zealand’s 14 weeks of paid leave, capped at $458.82 a week before tax, is one of the least generous systems in the developed world.

    “When you compare them to other countries, for instance the United States, actually our state-supplied parental leave system is a very generous one.

    “And I’m not seeing lots of Americans flocking here to take advantage of our paid parental leave.”

    where to start? Carl starts with the pro-family revelation that starting families is socially and economically beneficial, but suggests that even the virtues of family had certain limits: “but we dont want to get carried away because that argument could be extended to infinity”. So Carl could any argument (though arguing for infinite family size is perhaps NOT one you could really extend in that way), but only by people who are ridiculous, or who are in fact prepared to extend arguments to infinity, as Carl himself does in the very next line: “”I mean, wouldn’t it be great if none of us had to go to work and we could just stay at home and raise our kids and get paid for it?”

    Having made an absurd argument, he then demolishes it, but in doing so stumbles across the very reason for PPL in the first place….

    “That’s not realistic and there’s a whole lot of people in work who have to juggle the demands of work and the demands of parenting.” Yes Carl: that’s the people you have PPL for!!

    Having demolished the PPL argument by his brilliant ad absurdism which equates PPL with infinite indolence, breeding and benefit dependence, he proceeds to make the argument stronger with a ridiculous comparison between NZ and US PPL rates.

    Now, America is pretty much the only country in the OECD not to have Paid parental leave, so yes, by comparison, what we have does look good. The fact that we are near the bottom of OECD rankings ourselves is not so great: perhaps this is why we dont have flocks of American mothers coming here to raise their infant children. Or, Carl, there might be other reasons, such as you dont get PPL unless you are a permanent resident, etc etc etc… Cant wait for more from this man!!

    • Colonial Viper 18.1

      Yeah this is what the Right Wing have done in the US. Populated institutions with names such as “Centre for Global Warming Policy” full of people who are nothing but idealogical haters, wreckers and apologists for the wealthy elite.

    • ianmac 18.2

      Yes I read that this morning. Presumably Davidson is the only person in the Families Commission so like Peter Dunne in a caucus of one, he can say whatever he likes or in this case whatever Paula Bennett wants him to say. Is Davidson the only member of FC?

  16. Pascal's bookie 19

    For those with access, and are interested, the Anders Breivik trial is on BBCNews right now. Reading out the list of victims.

  17. Jackal 20

    In defence of Jafas

    My self flagellation for today was in reading a rather large post (1040 words) by deluded rightwing stalwart Karl du Fresne, who waffled on with some of the worst parochial rubbish I’ve ever had the displeasure of reading…

  18. If National truly supported a quality public education system they wouldn’t treat what we have with such disdain! http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.co.nz/2012/04/proof-that-national-despises-our-public.html

  19. Red Rosa 22

    Meanwhile, back in the UK…


    Angry, maybe..but thought provoking all the same.

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