Open mike 17/05/2023

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 17th, 2023 - 75 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

75 comments on “Open mike 17/05/2023 ”

  1. Sanctuary 1

    I know we've been speculating a bit on Luxon's future as leader of the Nats, but surely his disasterous performance this past few days has added extra piquancy to proceedings. The whole taxpayer receipt thing as a marquee policy is just wild. You've had the right leaning journos bending over backwards to make excuses for the guy, which is a terrible sign. Then yesterday and his ridiculous, insincere, and thoughtless Americanesque "Thoughts and prayers" comment on the Wellington hostel fire… I mean FFS. Unforced errors day after day.

    • Take it easy on Luxon please Sanc. We don't want him replaced before the electionsmiley.

    • AB 1.2

      I thought it was terrible judgment for him to turn up at the scene of the fire. What is this fire about, other than a failure of regulation and a failure of a housing market inflated by speculation? And Luxon and the Nats oppose regulation as a cost to business – and are dead keen to re-inflate the housing market (and therefore increase their personal wealth) by scrapping the brightline test, getting foreign buyers back, etc.

      Having Luxon standing in front of a scene of the tragic incineration of poor people was just a reminder that he and his cronies will make all such problems worse. Then he compounds it with meaningless, repetitive, dull and unoriginal babbling. Perhaps he got bad advice suggesting that putting in an appearance would show his human side and help people "get to know" him? God forbid – I already know him too much.

    • alwyn 1.3

      Meanwhile, when considering the polls on preferred PM at five months out from an election the current incumbent has the lowest ratings of any PM since MMP was introduced.

      Luxon is behind 2 of the Opposition leaders but ahead of the other 5 in the 8 elections for which numbers are available.

      However keep up with your dreams of how popular Chippie is and how everybody hates Luxon.

    • Corey 1.4

      Luxon is the only thing the left have going for it, why on earth would you actually be hoping he gets rolled?

      The incumbent prime minister is polling at low 20s and has the charisma of a telemarketer.

      God forbid they roll Luxon, if they roll Luxon, you're looking at Nicola Willis or god forbid, Erica Stanford

      Regardless of whether the left sees it or not, both of those women would be extremely popular as leaders and drain middle class female votes from Labour.

      It's neck and neck in party polls because of Luxons unrelatability, if you put Stanford or Willis up against Hipkins and we're looking at a 2008 or 2011 result for National.

      The people who liked Key but then voted for Ardern in 2017 and 2020 will rush back to the National party with open arms for Nationals.

      Stanford imo is Nationals next pm.

  2. Janice 2

    Luxon is probably quite safe at the moment, his caucus are too busy writing their acceptance speeches and trying to quietly cut the throats of their fellow tory MPs to pay much attention to what he is doing.

  3. tsmithfield 3

    I think Labour has just lost the Christchurch vote.

    Christchurch voters will be pissed off with Labour every time they take a drink of disgusting chlorinated water.

    All National has to do is to promise to restore unchlorinated water to Christchurch and there will be a landslide to National.

    • Mac1 3.1

      All Christchurch had to do in 2016 was to spend some $40 million to secure the water supply against contamination. There are 400,000 residents there- it would cost only 20 flat whites per person to remedy! https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/313670/christchurch-city-council-to-vote-on-chlorinating-water

      • tsmithfield 3.1.1

        The council has spent millions on upgrading our water supply in order to meet government requirements. But, the goal posts keep shifting.

        https://www.chrislynchmedia.com/news-items/government-forces-chlorine-in-christchurchs-drinking-water-sparking-outrage-from-the-mayor

        Our water is fantastically managed here, and we have never had an outbreak of sickness due to water quality that I am aware of.

        • Liberty Belle 3.1.1.1

          My understanding is Chlorine has been used intermittently in the Chch water supply? Back in 2018(??) Chch were talking about using UV and ozone treatments to avoid the use of Chlorine. What happened to that?

          • tsmithfield 3.1.1.1.1

            Yes it has, if required. But only as long as necessary.

            The council has spent a fortune upgrading our infrastructure to meet what they understood to be the standard for an exemption. But, they have now found the goal-posts have moved.

            People in Christchurch will be hopping mad over this. I don't think the government realises how bigger deal this is for Christchurch.

          • Drowsy M. Kram 3.1.1.1.2

            Contaminated drinking water was the source of the campylobacteriosis outbreak in Havelock North in August 2016, with sheep faeces the likely source of the campylobacter. It is highly likely that the heavy rain that inundated paddocks neighbouring Brookvale Road caused contaminated water to flow into a pond about 90 metres from Brookvale Road bore 1.

            Heavy rain eh – "Chance in a million!"

            As far as tsmithfield (@3.1.1) is aware, ChCh has "never had an outbreak of sickness due to water quality". Was that also the case in HN, prior to 2016?

            https://www.hastingsdc.govt.nz/services/water/drinking-water/havelock-north-supply/article/276/havelock-north-water-contamination

            The Havelock North drinking water inquiry: A wake-up call to rebuild public health in New Zealand [19 December 2017]
            The second report of the Havelock North Drinking Water Inquiry describes a long list of failings that contributed to the outbreak. In this blog we argue that the failings are much broader than the safety of drinking water supplies and represent a serious erosion and fragmentation of NZ’s national public health institutions. What is needed now is a major stocktake and rebuilding of our country’s national public health capacity.

            Alas, many Kiwis remain wilfully deaf to some 'inconvenient' wake-up calls.

            The impact of Havelock North's drinking water contamination

            In 2016, the water supply in Havelock North was contaminated with campylobacter. Four people died and around 5000 people fell ill.

            Following this incident, the Government carried out an inquiry and established the Three Waters Review to look at how to improve the regulation and delivery of drinking water, wastewater and stormwater – the three waters.

            We responded to the review by evaluating the condition of our below-ground well heads (the source of contamination in Havelock North) and began an extensive improvement programme.

            An independent assessment found the well heads did not meet standards and the Drinking Water Assessor advised the Christchurch water supply was no longer provisionally secure.

            The resulting loss of the secure status for our water supply, forced us to make the decision in early 2018 to temporarily chlorinate our water supplies.

            If we had not made that decision, the Medical Officer of Health would have required us to chlorinate. Temporary chlorination of much of the city’s water supply began in March 2018.

            The Government continued work to review and make changes to three waters across New Zealand and in late 2021 new legislation – the Water Services Act 2021 – was passed. This established Taumata Arowai – the new water regulator.

            Progress to date

            Since 2018 we have upgraded most of our well heads, installed ultra-violet disinfection at six wells, decommissioned a number of shallow wells and drilled ten new ones, but there is still further work being done.

            One of the biggest ongoing risks to our water supply relates to the condition of some of the reservoirs and suction tanks used to store drinking water. There are risks such as cracks in the roofs or in below-ground walls of the reservoirs which could allow contaminated water to get in.

            Inspecting and repairing reservoirs can only take place during the winter months when a small number of reservoirs can be taken out of service as they aren’t needed to supply water. The inspections inform the scope of repair work so it is difficult to know exactly when the work will be complete, but we estimate the programme will take about five years to complete.

            • Liberty Belle 3.1.1.1.2.1

              Thanks Drowsy. I personally am in favour of local solutions. In this case it sems the regulator is being a bit heavy handed?

              • Stan

                Good points.

                And people don't realise if you take a bacterium like Campylobacter, some get no illness, some mild, minority will be hospitalised and even die from the complications.

                Put those proportions into a city of 400,000 and you get significant number of serious illness and death for a slip up like Havelock North.

              • Descendant Of Smith

                Can't see how you draw that conclusion.

                The council got their own assessment done and established that things were below standard and it will take about 5 years to fix.

                How is that not local?

              • Drowsy M. Kram

                In this case it sems the regulator is being a bit heavy handed?

                Regulators are often viewed as "being a bit heavy handed" prior to a failure.

                Regulatory Failure – Examples

                Of greater ‘concern’ (to me, being somewhat risk-averse) are 'regulators' that don't learn from past failures:

                Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
                Santayana

                Maybe the manifold problems we currently face locally and globally are crowding out lessons from the past?

                https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2017/02/nick-smith-defends-water-quality-targets.html

                • Liberty Belle

                  What 'past failures' in Christchurch are you referring to?

                  • Drowsy M. Kram

                    What 'past failures' in Christchurch are you referring to?

                    Was noting the common perception that regulators/regulations are "a bit heavy handed" at times – see "optimism followed by disappointment".

                    Best Practice Regulation: Setting Targets and Detecting Vulnerabilities [August 2011; PDF]
                    Regulatory regimes as experiments
                    We often have an idealised or optimistic view of regulation based on what we believe it will deliver by way of outcomes, be they economic, social or both. It is generally articulated, at least by the proponents of a particular regulatory approach, at the time that approach is being developed and implemented.

                    However, the reality can fall short of the ideal, so much so on some occasions that the regulatory approach is considered to have failed and a new ideal is articulated. This pattern of optimism followed by disappointment followed by optimism can be observed over time and across different regulatory areas. It can also be observed in pendulum swings between different regulatory approaches, which often take the form of slogans – such as ‘light-handed’ versus ‘heavy-handed’, ‘prescriptive’ versus ‘principles’ or ‘more’ versus ‘less’ government.

                    Re ChCh and regulatory failures, leaky buildings 'spring' to mind.

                    In February 2010, New Zealand's Building and Construction Minister Maurice Williamson, National, warned that the size of the issue, at least $11 billion, was so gianormous [sic] that even a government with budget surpluses would struggle. He noted that: "…a Government who's [sic] running deficits – and has a forecast track of deficits for many years out – has to just sit there with its head in its hands, saying, 'Well, I just don't how to do this'."

                    He also warned that it was necessary to come up with a solution so money could be spent on fixing houses, rather than paying lawyers, and that there was a risk of significant rates rises in the major centres like Auckland, Tauranga, Wellington and Christchurch, of a scale that would "make eyes water".
                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaky_homes_crisis#Financial_liabilities

                    I'm sure you can think of examples if you put your mind to it – regulatory failures can occur for a number of reasons.

                    ECan moves over ‘explicit and continuous breaches
                    [1 May 2023]
                    Water-take rules are being enforced after concerns were raised in a hidden scientific report

                    The CTV building collapse may have been due in part to inadequate regulations – the ChCh (and later Kaikōura) earthquakes prompted a regulatory rethink about what is considered acceptable earthquake risk in Aotearoa NZ – and some might say 'not before time'.

                    Moves to regulate engineers, change Building Code for hollow-core floors [24 May 2022]
                    Meanwhile, Cabinet has agreed to a new regulatory regime for engineers, meaning they will have to be registered and subject to a code of conduct.

                    "The collapse of the CTV Building in the 2011 Christchurch earthquake highlighted the risks of inexperienced engineers working in high-risk engineering fields and the difficulty in holding substandard or unprofessional engineers to account," a Cabinet paper from earlier this year said.

                    Both the Kaikōura and Christchurch earthquakes have led to a seismic shift in how engineers understand building performance, the regulatory effects of which are still emerging.

                    https://ccc.govt.nz/consents-and-licences

                    https://www.building.govt.nz/building-code-compliance/canterbury-rebuild/

                    Hopefully, regulatory organisations all over NZ are currently re-evaluating the risks associated with flooding, and revising their recommendations, regulations and standards accordingly.

                    And then there's water fluoridation – there's always fluoridation! wink

                    Water fluoridation: Christchurch council tries to avoid 'expensive' process [25 August 2022]
                    Te Whatu Ora Waitaha dental public health specialist Martin Lee said the council has shrugged off water fluoridation for at least 20 years.

                    "The Christchurch City Council has been very difficult to engage with. We have never, for example, managed to engage with the mayor over the past two decades," he said.

                    • Liberty Belle

                      These aren't examples of "Regulators are often viewed as "being a bit heavy handed" prior to a failure." Quite the opposite.

                  • Drowsy M. Kram

                    Nearly 7 years after the tragic consequences of Campylobacter contamination in Havelock North's water supply, it seems odd (to me) that some (many?) Cantabrians are so vehemently opposed to the chlorination of Christchurch's water supply. What's the story?

                    Water expert sacked from city council contract after raising concerns over public health [4 May 2018]
                    Iain Rabbitts​ was employed as an external consultant to carry out health and safety assessments while council engineers roll out temporary treatment ahead of repairs to fix substandard wells across the city.

                    But his contract was terminated after he publicly gave his view that fixing the faulty well heads is unlikely to prevent the city's water supply having to be chlorinated permanently.

                    He also suggested that while 103 vulnerable bores are being fixed in Christchurch, about 1850 other unmonitored bores could potentially pollute supplies.

                    Authorities want the city's famously pure water to be regarded as a "special case", but Rabbitts said he believes there is much more work needed for it to be exempt from any mandatory permanent chlorination.

                    Following the story's publication, Rabbitts – a water specialist with engineering consultancy Harrison Grierson who was an expert adviser to the Havelock North inquiry – and his employer were told by the council his contract was being terminated.

                    Sometimes, giving pesky experts the brush-off is for the best.

                    He's [Joy's] one academic and, like lawyers, I could provide you others who would give a counter view, he [Key] said.

                    Noting the common perception that regulators/regulations (in general, not only in ChCh) can be "a bit heavy handed" at times, and particularly when you're on the receiving end…

                    DMK to LB @3:41 pm

                    1. Leaky buildings…
                    2. ECan to move over 'explicit and continuous breaches'
                    3. The CTV building collapse…
                    4. Water fluoridation…

                    LB to DMK @4:27 pm

                    These aren't examples of "Regulators are often viewed as "being a bit heavy handed" prior to a failure." Quite the opposite.

                    Sorry LB, I missed out a step. Do you recall examples of 'interested parties', feeling constrained by ‘heavy-handed’ regulation, lobbying successfully for light-handed regulation prior to a failure and/or other negative outcomes?

                    1. For many affected homeowners – who blamed their plight on a doctrinaire shift to light-handed government regulation in the early 1990s – the costs were considerably more than financial. [Word file download]
                    In 1979, the president of the New Zealand Master Builders’ Federation condemned the “ever-increasing burden of new standards and regulations” imposed on his members.

                    2. The Central Plains Water enhancement scheme has had a small but influential group of supporters… the advancement of the scheme appears to have coincided with career moves and business interests of some of these supporters.
                    In March 2010, following an investigation and report by Wyatt Creech, the National Government sacked the Environment Canterbury councillors and replaced them with commissioners.
                    In June 2010, Environment Canterbury issue a press release stating that the hearing panel had granted 31 consents and the notice of requirement for the revised scheme without the storage dam.

                    Risk Maps of Nitrate in Canterbury Groundwater 2022 [PDF]

                    3. The commission's findings were released on 10 December 2012. The report found the [CTV] building's design was deficient and should not have been approved.

                    Section 9: Summary of conclusions and recommendations (.docx) 125KB [Word document]

                    No obvious prior lobbying for less restrictive regulations in that case – 'just' multiple failures to meet the building design, permitting and construction standards/regulations of the day.

                    4. The costs and benefits of water fluoridation in NZ
                    [28 November 2017]
                    Over 20 years, the net discounted saving from adding fluoride to reticulated water supplies supplying populations over 500 would be NZ$1401 million, a nine times pay-off. Between 8800 and 13,700 quality-adjusted life years would be gained.

                    Won't someone please think of the children!

                    Canterbury children record high levels of tooth decay
                    [17 July 2020]

                    But children aren't ratepayers, and dentistry is 'free' for under 18s.

                    Health (Drinking Water) Amendment Bill — First Reading [25 Hōngo 2006]
                    Hon TONY RYALL (National—Bay of Plenty): This bill, the Health (Drinking Water) Amendment Bill, is a sledgehammer to crack a nut. It is a heavy-handed, overkill approach to address concerns about water quality in New Zealand. … And what about the cost?

                    Ryall was a member of the Health select committee at the time. Same ol' National – delay repeal delay – unless it's tax cuts for the rich, and flogging off public assets.

                    • Liberty Belle

                      "Nearly 7 years after the tragic consequences of Campylobacter contamination in Havelock North's water supply, it seems odd (to me) that some (many?) Cantabrians are so vehemently opposed to the chlorination of Christchurch's water supply. What's the story?"

                      Just FTR, chlorination has no effect on campylobacter until concentrations reach over 5ppm. ((PDF) Effect of Drinking Water Chlorination on Campylobacter spp. Colonization of Broilers (researchgate.net))

                      I'm not sure why Chch are so opposed, and why they have resisted Fluoridation in the past. Both seem a no brainer to me.

                      "In 1979, the president of the New Zealand Master Builders’ Federation condemned the “ever-increasing burden of new standards and regulations” imposed on his members."

                      I'm not sure I understand that one. Houses built in NZ prior to that statement were solid and sound. The CCTV building was built in 1986, long after the 1979 statement. What is your point? That harsher regulations made buildings less safe?

                      "This bill, the Health (Drinking Water) Amendment Bill, is a sledgehammer to crack a nut. It is a heavy-handed, overkill approach to address concerns about water quality in New Zealand. … And what about the cost?"

                      Without reading through the link, what was the purpose of that bill? NZ has been fluoridating water since the 1960's.

                  • Drowsy M. Kram

                    Just FTR, chlorination has no effect on campylobacter until concentrations reach over 5 ppm.

                    Are you sure about that? You seem to be comparing broiler chickens to municipal water networks – apples and oranges?

                    From what I've read, the generally accepted expert consensus is that free chlorine concentrations around 0.6 – 1 ppm at point of treatment, to maintain a chlorine concentration of least 0.1 ppm (and up to 0.5 ppm) throughout a water distribution network (water treatment station to tap), is effective for controlling Campylobacter in public water supplies.

                    Inactivation of Campylobacter jejuni by chlorine and monochloramine [February 1986; PDF]
                    Under virtually every condition tested, each of the three C. jejuni strains was more susceptible than the E. coli control strain, with greater than 99% inactivation after 15 min of contact with 1.0 mg of monochloramine per liter or 5 min of contact with 0.1 mg of free chlorine per liter.

                    These results suggest that disinfection procedures commonly used for treatment of drinking water to remove coliform bacteria are adequate to eliminate C. jejuni and further correlate with the absence of outbreaks associated with properly treated water.

                    Safe drinking water and waterborne outbreaks [2017]

                    What's in your [Wellington] water
                    For supplies from unsecure water sources, Taumata Arowai’s Drinking Water Quality Assurance Rules require that there be a minimum of 0.2 milligrams of chlorine per litre of water available everywhere within a distribution system, to provide effective disinfection. One milligram per litre is one part per million parts of water.

                    Chlorine breaks down when it comes into contact with the organic matter that it neutralises, so the level of free available chlorine at any point within a distribution system isn't constant over time. Our dosing levels are based on maintaining a minimum chlorine residual (free available chlorine) of around 0.4 mg/L throughout the distribution network.

                    We typically add 0.6 to 0.8 mg/L of chlorine at our treatment plants to achieve the necessary chlorine residual in the distribution system.

                    How much chlorine will be used [to treat the Queenstown water supply]?
                    As little as possible to keep your water safe. Typically we will use a dose of 0.8 mg of chlorine for every litre of water. This will give a residual dose of 0.5 mg per litre in what comes through your taps.

                    What is your point? That harsher regulations made buildings less safe?

                    The point is that regulatory regimes can swing from perceived heavy-handedness ("harsh" and burdensome, or appropriately cautious – depending on your PoV) to (more relaxed and/or less safe) light-handed approaches (due to lobbying by interested parties, e.g. builders, farmers, and (potentially unwarranted) optimism), and back again (due to 'disappointment'.) The leaky homes debacle, and unsafe levels of nitrate in drinking water, are examples of the disappointment phase.

                    Ideally, regulations should be formulated according to expert evidence-based assessments of risk and opportunity – the appropriate balance of (pre)caution and optimism. In the cases of leaky homes, and the expansion of dairy farming on the Canterbury plains, perhaps the regulators were 'encouraged' to err a little too much on the side of optimism? C'est la vie.

                    However, the reality can fall short of the ideal, so much so on some occasions that the regulatory approach is considered to have failed and a new ideal is articulated. This pattern of optimism followed by disappointment followed by optimism can be observed over time and across different regulatory areas. It can also be observed in pendulum swings between different regulatory approaches, which often take the form of slogans – such as ‘light-handed’ versus ‘heavy-handed’, ‘prescriptive’ versus ‘principles’ or ‘more’ versus ‘less’ government.

                    • Liberty Belle

                      "Are you sure about that? "

                      No, it was a completely weird comparison. Covid brain, for my sins.

                      "The point is that regulatory regimes can swing from perceived heavy-handedness ("harsh" and burdensome, or appropriately cautious – depending on your PoV) to (more relaxed and/or less safe) light-handed approaches (due to lobbying by interested parties, e.g. builders, farmers, and (potentially unwarranted) optimism), and back again (due to 'disappointment'.) "

                      Yep, totally agree. So it's about finding a balance. I'm not opposed to chemical water treatment, but I am pro local solutions. I'm doing some more reading on why Chch is so opposed to chlorination. According to this article, opposition to chlorination at a council level is such that they had a "target for completely removing chlorine from Christchurch's drinking water", and have spent millions on water safety plans to achieve that.

        • Mac1 3.1.1.2

          https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/99591173/state-of-new-zealands-drinking-water-slammed

          You say quite rightly that ChCh values its water purity. I'm an old ChCh boy and remember its artesian water. Where I live now is the same.

          But the goal posts have shifted. The posts are now in a park that was once a rubbish dump, next to a dairy farm and with century old sewage and waste water pipes running alongside.

          It shouldn't be a political issue. Water is common to us all, but as the article cited above states- "earthquake damage, climate change, disused landfill sites – as many as 1000 – and deteriorating infrastructure", "inept", "negligent" and 'complacency"- all mean the goal posts have shifted into a different ball park.

          The MoH wore some severe criticism, perhaps why the overview of water quality now sits in the vision of a different and more critical set of eyes.

    • Don't you think getting rid of a few more cows would help less bugs in your water?

      To have it chlorinated is a safety measure, because dairy farming above the aquifer has caused this.

      So health concerns are real… and politics over this is ill directed.

      • tsmithfield 3.2.1

        Our water is constantly monitored. If there is any sign of water quality deteriorating, then the specific areas of concern are chlorinated.

        I challenge anyone here to produce any documented case of sickness in Christchurch due to water quality.

        I don't think you realise how precious our beautiful water is to us here in Christchurch. This will be an election issue.

    • Corey 3.3

      Despite the hate it gets from elitist and idpol "lefty's" Christchurch is about as safe Labour as it gets the only times it hasn't been has been the two post earthquake elections of 2011 and 2014.

      It's not called the peoples socialist republic of chch for nothing

      Ilam is the only safe National party electorate in the city and even that electorate isn't the safest anymore.

      Chch has been down this road time and time again with chlorine and chch voters blame this stuff on council and environment Canterbury.

      Chch and Dunedin are safe for labour. They'll do about what they did in 2017 in those cities.

      The city labour is going to struggle in, is Auckland and it's going to be a blood bath there.

      • Phillip ure 3.3.1

        So it would be relatively painless for national to do an act-in-epsom deal for the top leader in Christchurch..?

        Ok

        • weka 3.3.1.1

          TOP wouldn't take such a deal because they'd lose their left wing and progressive voters.

          • Phillip ure 3.3.1.1.1

            But they would gain a lot of national voters who are scared of the raving loons in act…
            And any left/green people thinking of voting for top need to think on..
            They could be helping vote in a right-wing govt
            .

            • Phillip ure 3.3.1.1.1.1

              And a coincidence the electorate the top leader is standing in is the only national one in Christchurch…illam…?

    • adam 3.4

      Who has ever died from chlorine in the water?

      And if your really upset about it, they have these really cool things called water filters.

      So vote TMP or Greens or labour for better wages and a health system OR the mixed Tory boiler slag and get lower wages mixed with hard user pays – your choice.

      • weka 3.4.1

        when we chlorinate water unnecessarily, we open the door for the source water to be more easily polluted.

    • mikesh 3.5

      All National has to do is to promise to restore unchlorinated water to Christchurch and there will be a landslide to National.

      Or they could vote for TOP, and Ilam for Raf Manji.

      • pat 3.6.1

        Am assuming that comment is highlighting the fact that chlorine has no impact on nitrate levels….and that the current NZ nitrate level (limit?) is magnitudes above international best practice.

        • Muttonbird 3.6.1.1

          There's a lot wrong with Canterbury water by the looks of it (bacteria + nitrates) because of the powerful dairy industry.

          As always with the profit/growth first political right, health/safety take a back seat.

          • pat 3.6.1.1.1

            There is indeed much wrong with nitrate levels…however the Christchurch water supply is as yet unimpacted …not so other catchments.

  4. tWiggle 4

    Like the Covid health response antivax shriekers, those people changing their vote would be confusing a Public Health directive with a political one.

      • Muttonbird 4.1.1

        Chlorination and Fluoridation are not the same thing.

          • Muttonbird 4.1.1.1.1

            I skim read that but could not find any mention of fluoridation or chlorination.

            But does say this:

            Taumata Arowai was established following the inquiry into a 2016 outbreak of waterborne disease in Havelock North’s drinking water supply. It is the first key pou, or pillar, of the Government’s Three Waters Reform Programme.

            “The Government’s Havelock North Inquiry and subsequent Three Waters Reform Programme has turned the spotlight on the quality and delivery of drinking water, stormwater, and wastewater services. The sector has asked for the creation of a three waters regulator, and it has come in the form of Taumata Arowai,” said Dame Karen.

            Consumption of contaminated drinking water in Havelock North resulted in up to 8,320 campylobacteriosis illnesses. Of these, 953 cases were physician-reported, 42 were hospitalised, three people developed Guillain-Barrè syndrome, and four people died.

            “Our tamariki, elderly, pregnant women, and people with chronic illness are particularly vulnerable.”

            So you can see the establishment of Taumata Arowai was in response to a Public Health imperative, is says so at the top of this quote from your link.

            The health directive enabled the political directive.

            • The Chairman 4.1.1.1.1.1

              It's still political.

              The chlorination directive came from the Taumata Arowai, which was established by the Government.

              Moreover, it was a pillar of the Government’s Three Waters Reform Programme.

              • Muttonbird

                It's driven by a health necessity where local councils have failed to protect the public because they are easily lobbied by, and in some cases actively collude with, cranks and farmers. Dairy interests and anti-fluoride groups have too much influence which has resulted in the delivery of poor and sometimes dangerous quality drinking water (bacteria+nitrates) and water which does uphold maximum health benefits (un-fluoridated).

                This is why the Fluoridation bill and Three Waters exist, but they are political directives which didn't come out of nowhere. They are required for Public Health.

  5. Reality 5

    Something I am picking up with Chris Luxon's media appearances – apart from grinning, he shows no feeling or emotion or expression – robotic in other words. His visit to the tragic fire site yesterday a case in point. Jacinda and Chris Hipkins on the other hand always visibly show they are affected by a particular situation.

  6. Adrian 6

    Diesel here in the upper south around $1.70 a litre today, with discounts. So if "transport costs "i.e price of diesel was blamed for the large component of price rises since Covid/Ukraine, when are the money grabbing bastards who used that as a reason to raise prices far in excess of the real input, going to lower their prices to reflect the lowest actual cost of transport fuels in years ? Don't hold your breath.

    • Corey 6.1

      Wait till the govt takes the discounts off in the middle of winter on an election year. while the RB keeps going nuclear every quarter. Eeek.

      Shits gonna hit the fan.

  7. The Chairman 7

    Last year, after the breakdown of a giant fire fighting ladder truck, FENZ assistant national commander and Wellington region manager Bruce Stubbs told RNZ: "There are no concerns for public safety.”

    When asked by Morning Report today if having this second truck at Loafers Lodge would have helped the rescue, Stubbs said: "I don't know."

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/490052/newtown-hostel-fire-firefighters-pretty-cut-up-they-couldn-t-rescue-more-people-as-second-ladder-truck-unavailable

  8. adam 8

    Well done Martyn, sure as hell a better response than some commentators here.

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2023/05/17/admit-it-we-are-all-responsible-for-loafers-lodge-tragedy/

    • UncookedSelachimorpha 8.1

      Agree, I think he is bang on the money.

    • gsays 8.2

      Thanks for the tip.

      While on the site, I watched The Working Group. The bit of gossip I picked up is that Taine Randell is going to be standing in East Coast Bays for Labour.

      • alwyn 8.2.1

        Well, I'm told that all the world loves an optimist.

        If Erica Stanford can get 20,466 votes and a majority of 8,764 over a Labour Party candidate who got 11,702 in the 2020 election I wouldn't think he has a snowball's chance in Hell in 2023. Stanford would look like going back to a more typical majority of 15,000 or so.

        Have they offered Randell a list place in the top dozen or so and is he running in the way that Finlayson used to pretend to run in Rongatai?

        • gsays 8.2.1.1

          My political analysis ends with Randell's name recognition,

          • alwyn 8.2.1.1.1

            True. An ex-All Black captain is always going to have name recognition.

            New Zealand must be the only country in the world where there will be obituaries in every paper in the country for someone who played, even if only in a single game and 50 years ago, for the All Blacks. To go onto the field wearing that black jersey is to become instantly immortal.

            I think Taine is still a non-starter though. Now, if they could get Richie McCaw as a candidate they might have a chance.

            • gsays 8.2.1.1.1.1

              True about that black jersey and the silver fern. (… the Addidas and Altrad logo, but that is another story.)

              Without wanting to defame him, or jeopardise this site, my recollection is that McCaw would bat for the 'other side'. No evidence or anything, just a hunch.

  9. UncookedSelachimorpha 9

    Astonishing to hear Luxon offer "Thoughts and Prayers" to the Loafers Lodge victims. Obviously doesn't realise that those worthless sentiments (trotted out by right-wing US politicians after every mass shooting) are social media code for "I couldn't give a damn". Or maybe he does realise.

    I doubt he does give a damn in this case – his concern is for the landlord class and not the likes of Loafers Lodge residents.

  10. arkie 10

    Chlöe Swarbrick's pre-budget piece highlights the bold moves that are needed and the decisions that keep us in the 'middle-of-the-road':

    This Thursday, the Government could end poverty. It could boost teachers and nurses and midwives and emergency service workers’ wages and conditions to rival Australia. It could knuckle down and commit to the scientifically necessary actions to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in agriculture, transport and manufacturing. It could put more conservation rangers in our native forests, restore wetlands and daylight streams across our cities.

    It could pay for these things like the First Labour Government did, with taxes on those who profited handsomely during an extremely difficult period of time for everyone else.

    Covid-19 exposed that the things we’ve been told are impossible are simply a matter of political willpower. Direct payments to people who need it, flexible working arrangements and rent freezes were issued at lightning speed. The needs of everyday people were prioritised.

    Government Budgets, like laws, aren’t passed down from the gods. They aren’t written in scripture. They are the product of decisions. Those decisions reflect the values and priorities of decision-makers.

    He and the Minister of Finance have spent the past few weeks tempering any expectation of real change, let alone transformation, in Thursday’s Budget. They’re talking down spending, talking up trade-offs and trademarking “bread and butter”.

    These are their decisions. Tinker or transform. Choose an admittedly unfair status quo or choose the change empowered by a historical majority.

    We’re already on the middle road. It’s flooding.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/chloe-swarbrick-new-zealand-needs-govts-bread-and-butter-budget-to-be-bold-not-beige/3JMGVV6MBZASJFAIIOQKKY3HBU/

    • pat 10.1

      The problem is (always) how those who finance our persistent deficit view such….and you never find out until its too late.

      The greater our reliance on offshore supply of necessities the greater our need to consider such…and we are almost totally dependent on offshore supply.

  11. Mike the Lefty 11

    Wouldn't water filtering kits remove most of the chlorine?

Leave a Comment

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Agreement between Indo-Pacific partners for supply chain resilience
    Trade and Export Growth Minister Damien O’Connor joined ministerial representatives at a meeting in Detroit, USA today to announce substantial conclusion of negotiations of a new regional supply chains agreement among 14 Indo-Pacific countries. The Supply Chains agreement is one of four pillars being negotiated within the Indo-Pacific Economic Framework ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 hours ago
  • Celebrating Samoa Language Week 2023
    Our most spoken Pacific language is taking centre stage this week with Vaiaso o le Gagana Samoa – Samoa Language Week kicking off around the country. “Understanding and using the Samoan language across our nation is vital to its survival,” Barbara Edmonds said. “The Samoan population in New Zealand are ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 hours ago
  • Nationwide test of Emergency Mobile Alert system
    Over 90 per cent of New Zealanders are expected to receive this year’s nationwide test of the Emergency Mobile Alert system tonight between 6-7pm. “Emergency Mobile Alert is a tool that can alert people when their life, health, or property, is in danger,” Kieran McAnulty said. “The annual nationwide test ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 hours ago
  • Whakatōhea and the Crown sign Deed of Settlement
    ENGLISH: Whakatōhea and the Crown sign Deed of Settlement A Deed of Settlement has been signed between Whakatōhea and the Crown, 183 years to the day since Whakatōhea rangatira signed the Treaty of Waitangi, Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations Andrew Little has announced. Whakatōhea is an iwi based in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • New Chair appointed to New Zealand National Commission for UNESCO
    Elizabeth Longworth has been appointed as the Chair of the New Zealand National Commission for UNESCO, Associate Minister of Education Jo Luxton announced today. UNESCO is the United Nations agency responsible for promoting cooperative action among member states in the areas of education, science, culture, social science (including peace and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Tourism transformation starts with people
    Tourism and hospitality employer accreditation scheme to recognise quality employers Better education and career opportunities in tourism Cultural competency to create more diverse and inclusive workplaces Innovation and technology acceleration to drive satisfying, skilled jobs Strengthening our tourism workers and supporting them into good career pathways, pay and working conditions ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Tourism transformation starts with people
    Tourism and hospitality employer accreditation scheme to recognise quality employers Better education and career opportunities in tourism Cultural competency to create more diverse and inclusive workplaces Innovation and technology acceleration to drive satisfying, skilled jobs Strengthening our tourism workers and supporting them into good career pathways, pay and working conditions ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Te ao Māori health services cheaper and more accessible for whānau
      Greater access to primary care, including 193 more front line clinical staff More hauora services and increased mental health support Boost for maternity and early years programmes Funding for cancers, HIV and longer term conditions    Greater access to primary care, improved maternity care and mental health support  are ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Te ao Māori health services more accessible for whānau
      Greater access to primary care, including 193 more front line clinical staff More hauora services and increased mental health support Boost for maternity and early years programmes Funding for cancers, HIV and longer term conditions    Greater access to primary care, improved maternity care and mental health support  are ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Government’s work for survivors of abuse in care continues
    The Government continues progress on the survivor-led independent redress system for historic abuse in care, with the announcement of the design and advisory group members today. “The main recommendation of the Royal Commission of Inquiry’s Abuse in Care interim redress report was for a survivor-led independent redress system, and the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Two brand new mental health facilities opened in Christchurch
    Health Minister Ayesha Verrall has opened two new state-of-the-art mental health facilities at the Christchurch Hillmorton Hospital campus, as the Government ramps up its efforts to build a modern fit for purpose mental health system. The buildings, costing $81.8 million, are one of 16 capital projects the Government has funded ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Government invests more than $24 million in regional projects
    The Government is continuing to invest in our regional economies by announcing another $24 million worth of investment into ten diverse projects, Regional Development Minister Kiri Allan says. “Our regions are the backbone of our economy and today’s announcement continues to build on the Government’s investment to boost regional economic ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Budget 23 supports the growth of Māori tourism
    An $8 million boost to New Zealand Māori Tourism will help operators insulate themselves for the future. Spread over the next four years, the investment acknowledges the on-going challenges faced by the industry and the significant contribution Māori make to tourism in Aotearoa. It builds on the $15 million invested ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • First Bushmasters ready to roll
    Defence Minister Andrew Little has marked the arrival of the first 18 Bushmaster protected mobility vehicles for the New Zealand Army, alongside personnel at Trentham Military Camp today. “The arrival of the Bushmaster fleet represents a significant uplift in capability and protection for defence force personnel, and a milestone in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Humanitarian support for the people of Sudan
    Aotearoa New Zealand is providing NZ$3.5 million to help meet urgent humanitarian needs in Sudan, Foreign Minister Nanaia Mahuta announced today. The severe fighting between the Sudan Armed Forces and the Rapid Support Forces has had devastating impacts for civilians. At least 705 people have been killed and 5,287 injured. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Clean-up at Hawkes Bay facility to help region deal with cyclone waste
    Repairing a Hawke’s Bay organic composting facility devastated by Cyclone Gabrielle is among the latest waste reduction projects getting Government backing, Associate Environment Minister Rachel Brooking announced today. “Helping communities get back on their feet after the devastating weather that hit the northern parts of the country this year is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • 8% pay boosts for GP & community nurses
    About 6,100 more GP, community nurses and kaiāwhina will be eligible for pay rises of 8% on average to reduce pay disparities with nurses in hospitals, Minister of Health Dr Ayesha Verrall announced today. The top up comes from a $200 million fund established to remove pay disparities between nurses ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Govt turns the sod on new Jobs and Skills Hub for Hawke’s Bay
    New Jobs and Skills Hub to begin construction in Hawke’s Bay The Hub will support the building of $1.1billion worth of homes in the region and support Cyclone Gabrielle rebuild and recovery. Over 2,200 people have been supported into industry specific employment, apprenticeships and training, by these Hubs across NZ ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Community Housing Aotearoa Conference Speech
    Tēnā koutou e nga maata waka. Kia koutou te mana whenua tēnā koutou Ngā mate huhua o te waa, haere, haere, haere atu ra. Hoki mai kia tātou te kanohi ora e tau nei, Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, tēnā tātou katoa. Tēnā koutou i runga i te kaupapa o te ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • New mental health tool launched for small business owner-operators
    The Government has launched a new tool to help small business owner-operators manage and improve their mental wellbeing, Small Business Minister Ginny Andersen announced today. The Brave in Business e-Learning series is another tool the Government has delivered to support small businesses with their mental health and wellbeing. “A pandemic, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • TAB partnership helps secure future of racing industry
    Minister for Racing Kieran McAnulty has announced the approval of a 25-year partnership between TAB NZ and UK betting company Entain that delivers at least $900 million in guaranteed funding for the racing industry over the next five years. Entain, a UK based group that operates multiple sports betting providers ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government project delivers more reliable and resilient water source to Northland
    The Government has delivered the first of three significant water security projects in Northland, boosting regional business and climate resilience, with the opening of Matawii reservoir today, Regional Development Minister Kiri Allan announced. A $68 million Government investment supported the construction of the reservoir, along with two other water storage ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Trade Minister to US to attend Ministerial meetings
    Trade and Export Growth Minister Damien O’Connor will travel to Detroit tomorrow to represent New Zealand at the annual APEC Ministers Responsible for Trade meeting from 24 – 29 May. Whilst in Detroit, Damien O’Connor will also host a meeting of Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP) Ministers ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Murihiku Regeneration energy and innovation wānanga
    I want to start by thanking Ngāi Tahu and the Murihiku Regeneration Collective for hosting us here today. Back at the  Science and Innovation Wananga in 2021, I said that a just transition in New Zealand must ensure Iwi are at the table. This is just as true now as ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • New Ambassador to Mongolia announced
    Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta today announced the appointment of diplomat Dr James Waite as Aotearoa New Zealand’s next Ambassador to Mongolia. He is currently the Deputy Head of Mission at the New Zealand Embassy in Beijing, a role he will continue to hold. “New Zealand and Mongolia share a warm and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government commitment to Māori Education continues
    Biggest-ever investment in property with more money for new sites and modernisation Roll-out of learning support coordination in kaupapa Māori and Māori Medium Schooling Boost in funding for iwi and schools to work together on Local Histories content Substantial support for Māori Education has continued in Budget 2023, including ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • More students to benefit from next round of Creatives in Schools
    Applications for the next round of Creatives in Schools will open on Friday 16 June 2023, Minister of Education Jan Tinetti and Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Carmel Sepuloni announced today during a visit at Te Wharekura o Mauao in Tauranga. “The Creatives in Schools programme funds schools and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Speech to WasteMINZ conference, Hamilton
    Tena koutou katoa and thank you all for being here and welcoming me to your annual conference. I want to acknowledge being here in Tainui’s rohe, and the mana of Kingi Tuheitia. I hate waste. So much so that when we built our home in Dunedin, I banned the use ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Extra boost for Southland’s Just Transition
    Southland’s Just Transition is getting a further boost to help future-proof the region and build its economic resilience, Energy and Resources Minister Megan Woods announced today.  “This Government is committed to supporting Southland’s just transition and reducing the region’s reliance on the New Zealand Aluminium Smelter at Tiwai Point,” Megan ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • PM concludes successful Pacific visit, confirms intention to visit India
    Prime Minister Chris Hipkins has concluded a series of successful international meetings with Pacific region leaders in Papua New Guinea. Prime Minister Hipkins secured constructive bilateral discussions with Prime Minister Narendra Modi of India, PNG Prime Minister James Marape, Cook Islands Prime Minister Mark Brown and United States Secretary of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Agreed statement from NZEI, PPTA and the Minister of Education
    On Friday 19th May, Minister Tinetti facilitated a meeting between NZEI and PPTA with the Ministry of Education to discuss options for finding a way forward in the current stalled collective bargaining. The meeting was constructive, and the parties shared a willingness to work towards a solution. The following was ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Five community energy projects kick start
    Eighty-nine households will soon benefit from secure, renewable, and more affordable energy as five community-level energy projects are about to get underway, Energy and Resources Minister Megan Woods announced today.    Five solar projects – in Whangārei, Tauranga, Palmerston North and Christchurch – are the first to receive funding from the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • New Zealand confirms recovery support for Cook Islands
    Prime Minister Chris Hipkins has confirmed New Zealand will provide NZ$15 million in emergency budget support for Cook Islands in its ongoing recovery from the impacts of COVID-19. New Zealand’s support was confirmed during a meeting with the Cook Islands Prime Minister Mark Brown in Papua New Guinea today. “New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Budget 2023 provides significant investment in kapa haka
    The Government’s continued recognition of and support for the important place Kapa Haka has in Aotearoa was evident today at a celebration at Te Wharekura o Kirikiriroa Associate Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Willow-Jean Prime said. “Our investment of $34 million over two years ensures that this kaupapa is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • NZ’s biggest ever emissions reduction project unveiled
    The Government is partnering with New Zealand Steel to deliver New Zealand’s largest emissions reduction project to date, with half of the coal being used at Glenbrook steel to be replaced with electricity to recycle scrap steel.  Prime Minister Chris Hipkins made the announcement alongside Energy and Resources Minister Megan ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government welcome Waitangi Tribunal Wai 2750 report into homelessness
    The Government has welcomed the Stage One Waitangi Tribunal Wai 2750 – Housing and Housing Services Kaupapa Inquiry report into homelessness released today. Minister of Housing Hon Megan Woods and Associate Minister of Housing (Māori) Hon Willie Jackson as Co-Leads for the government, with Associate Minister of Housing (homelessness) Hon ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • PM confirms details of Papua New Guinea visit
    Prime Minister Chris Hipkins has confirmed his upcoming visit to Papua New Guinea. The Prime Minister travels to Port Moresby on Sunday May 21, and will meet with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi, PNG Prime Minister James Marape and Cook Islands Prime Minister Mark Brown. He has also been invited ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Bill ensures ongoing reporting on tax system fairness
    A Bill requiring facts about the fairness and efficiency of New Zealand’s tax system to be reported and published annually has been tabled in Parliament today. Revenue Minister David Parker said the Taxation Principles Reporting Bill would ensure that tax information is reported against a set of fundamental tax principles. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Tax bill improves fairness at home and abroad
      NZ joins global effort to ensure multinationals pay a minimum rate of tax Tax on ACC, MSD lump sum payments changed to reduce amounts owing for some KiwiSaver topups for child carers taking paid parental leave Implementing changes to trustee tax and tax relief for flood-hit businesses Several measures ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New approach on law and order delivers
    Successful ‘circuit breaker’ pilot targeting repeat child offenders to be expanded to Hamilton, Christchurch and Auckland City Funding to maintain Police to population ratio achieved after 1800 extra Police officers added Creation of NZ’s first comprehensive digital Firearms Registry Modernising frontline police processes to free up time for officers Budget ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

Page generated in The Standard by Wordpress at 2023-05-28T02:47:18+00:00