Open mike 17/09/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, September 17th, 2019 - 80 comments
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80 comments on “Open mike 17/09/2019 ”

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    • Tony Veitch (not etc.) 2.1
      17 September 2019 at 8:59 am

      Any New Zealander with the intelligence to look at what is happening in China – the incarceration of over 1 million Uyghurs in "re-education" camps, the ongoing persecution of the Tibetans and Christians, and now the pressure (and probable invasion) of Hong Kong, – and imagine that China, with its aim of world domination, won't do the same here when they take over, is dreaming.

      Trump may be a complete f-wit, and he may be dangerous, but Xi Jingping is sinister.

      • greywarshark 2.1.1
        17 September 2019 at 10:10 am

        Too much of the purist race thing from China – and stories of Falun Gong being allocated status of bad and so dispensable. What have we here; a country admired principally because it 'has the trains running on time' as was said of Mussolini's Italy.

        • sumsuch 2.1.1.1
          18 September 2019 at 10:11 pm

          Me, myself, I always see democracy as the end. Don't know how close Japan has got yet. Is that 'dogma' or over-idealisation? I'm proud of it, rather than the 'freedom' of WW 2 which lead to our present plutocracy. And the US Supreme Court refusing to defend 'democracy'. Makes you laugh your guts out.

  3. ianmac 3
    17 September 2019 at 8:39 am

    It will be interesting to see if today Bennett persists with her line of questioning at QT. Even more interesting if Winston answers on behalf of the PM.

    Newsroom Laura Walters has published in full the Simon Mitchell report on his declaration of the non appearance of Sarah's complaint.

    The legal letter, and an accompanying statement from Mitchell, claims the woman – referred to in an article by The Spinoff as ‘Sarah’ – never raised allegations of sexual assault in her meetings or email correspondence with Mitchell or the panel.

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/09/16/811922/labour-party-doubles-down-on-its-version-of-events

    • Sacha 3.1
      17 September 2019 at 8:49 am

      Te Spinoff has the lawyer's statement and a response from the complainant: https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/16-09-2019/two-statements-on-the-labour-party-inquiry/

      • Sacha 3.1.1
        17 September 2019 at 8:51 am

        Isn't it great to see real journalism from new media organisations.

      • ianmac 3.1.2
        17 September 2019 at 9:18 am

        Thanks Sacha for the link to Spinoff. Simon and Sarah cannot both be right. Maybe the emails did not arrive at their destination but Sarah also says she discussed the details with Simon and the Committee. Weird!

        2+2= a twisted piece of string.

        • weka 3.1.2.1
          17 September 2019 at 9:35 am

          2+2/(sexual assault trauma+rape culture) = a twisted piece of string sticking out of a Gordian knot ball of string.

    • Dennis Frank 3.2
      17 September 2019 at 8:57 am

      Yesterday the Spinoff published that with a response from the complainants' lawyer. Have a look, Ian, see what you think when you compare both statements. Rare to see such a stark incompatibility in regard to the assertions of fact! https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/16-09-2019/two-statements-on-the-labour-party-inquiry/

      Seems to me they possess proof that the complainants are telling the truth, but it hinges on each email destination computer address – and if it reliably identitifies the owner/operator. To helpfully inform the public, they ought to publish each email as a photo so we can see the evidence for ourselves.

      • ianmac 3.2.1
        17 September 2019 at 9:23 am

        One can send an email but forget attachments but Sarah says she discussed the detail with the committee who say no she didn't. It would be very sad if Sarah has bigger problems of recall.

        Have Spinoff/Newsroom Bennett actually met Sarah?

        • Dennis Frank 3.2.1.1
          17 September 2019 at 9:39 am

          Dunno. That's another facet of the controversy that bothers me. Unidentifiable people can seem hypothetical! We assume they are actually real because Labour party sources say they are. Blind faith can work – the christians achieved hegemony for millennia using it – but I'd prefer politics to be based on real humans, their actual experience and evidence.

          Mitchell writes he advised Sarah to email the assistant Labour gen sec rather than himself, and doesn't say that person provided the panel with copies, so Sarah could have been under a false impression. If deliberate, seems bad faith to me…

          • greywarshark 3.2.1.1.1
            17 September 2019 at 11:21 am

            This interesting Correction in stuff Monday 16/9/19 P2 :

            Richard Griffin's column published in The Nelson Mail on Saturday incorrectly stated that the alleged offender in the Labour scandal worked in the prime minster's office in the Beehive, and that he was a member of her "hand-picked staff". It also incorrectly stated that the role would require "daily, sometimes hourly, interaction with the prime minister".
            []
            The alleged offender worked in the Labour leader's office, a unit that helps MPs deal with the day-to-day business of Parliament. It is based in the Bowen House office block and is separate from the prime minister's office, on the ninth floor of the Beehive.

            Stuff has printed the correction which reins in Richard Griffin's reckons to actual reality. ('There are things that you know, you don't know', and things you don't know that you don't know, etc. Refer to Donald Rumsfeld, USA Secretary of Defense speech. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiPe1OiKQuk)

            A feature of newspaper presentation of content to the reader that stuff displays shows disrespect for prime people in our polity and their positions of authority. Notice how, in the item copied above, buildings such as Beehive and Bowen House begin with a capital letter. However 'prime minister' is in lower case! I think that says something about the lack of respect of the media barons for the people and our elected representatives and government itself. (I inserted a space to create a second paragraph in the correction piece which made its meaning clearer I thought.)

            • Dennis Frank 3.2.1.1.1.1
              17 September 2019 at 11:50 am

              Who knew Ardern has two offices?? Hardly anyone, I suspect. I wonder if she uses both. Can't really blame the Dick for being confused.

              Re capitalisation, could be the journo is caught between two worlds: that of those trained in traditional grammar & those not. Result is random capitalisation, to serve both audiences…

              • Incognito …
                17 September 2019 at 12:00 pm

                Electorate MPs also have electorate offices in their electorates. Who knew? John Key used to have many hats, remember?

                • Dennis Frank …
                  17 September 2019 at 12:14 pm

                  Yeah but using that logic you'd have to count a third office for the PM in her electorate. The two she seems to have in parliament do reflect her twin hats, of course. If they are staffed by folk performing different functions – those required by the twin processes of democracy & governance – then nobody can claim it's a waste of space & resources.

              • greywarshark …
                17 September 2019 at 12:47 pm

                No I think that the writing form or rules has been declared on capitalisation – its not up to personal preference.

            • Psycho Milt 3.2.1.1.1.2
              17 September 2019 at 12:39 pm

              …in the item copied above, buildings such as Beehive and Bowen House begin with a capital letter. However 'prime minister' is in lower case!

              It's actually a bit of a grey area. If you're thinking about it generically, ie as the office that's used by prime ministers of New Zealand, it's the prime minster's office. If you're thinking about it as the office of Jacinda Ardern, Prime Minister, it's the Prime Minister's office. Either is fine in the context it was used in.

              • greywarshark …
                17 September 2019 at 1:23 pm

                Don't blame me for it PM. Or that other commenter who calls themself Grey Area.

                There are various rationalisations for changing capitalisation such as this one from The Guardian. The writer sounds as if he is Up Himself (to use a less formal style).

                https://www.theguardian.com/media/mind-your-language/2010/oct/04/new-york-street-signs-capitals

                Most readers seem comfortable with a less formal style. A grand total of two people complained about our coverage of the pope's, rather than the Pope's, recent visit to the UK. We did receive a letter last week complaining that calling David Cameron the prime minister, not the Prime Minister (a style we have been following for more than a decade) reflected a "lowering of standards", but such complaints are few.

                This is what Canterbury Uni says. But they don't make it clear about titles and honorifics. It appears that one could refer to the chancellor of The University of Canterbury, even though they would be of equal importance, one needing the other, I would think.

                https://www.canterbury.ac.nz/webguide/uc-style-guide/writing-for-the-web/language-usage/

                We are having great discussions about the lack of respect for complaints about bullying of people, and the casual acceptance of sexual urges being displayed and acted on. Perhaps we are all too bloody casual about what consideration good humans must have for others, respecting their bright and brief life on this earth, similar to our own beacon with an inestimable cornucopia of abundant gifts, so often unrecognised.

            • sumsuch 3.2.1.1.1.3
              18 September 2019 at 10:28 pm

              Rather despise Richard Griffin. Instrument. He has a column in Nelson? One of those doves freed by social democracy who doesn't come back to perform devotion like my polio uncle for CCS. Hard to like these freed fools as much as they obviously like themselves.

  4. phillip ure 4
    17 September 2019 at 8:55 am

    imagine what would happen if the labour party or the greens had as an mp – a former(?) chinese-spook/member of the chinese communist party..?

    and j.ardern/shaw went with said mp to china…for a meeting with the head of chinas’ spooks….?

    the media would have such a meltdown – they would need to be put on life-support…

    hosking would implode….

    hooton would have palpitations..

    the tories do it..?…nedia/r.w-spinners/toadys – totally unruffled..

  5. A 5
    17 September 2019 at 9:13 am

    I worry about how vaping is being promoted – please pass onto the vapers in your life

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-16/im-horrified-by-the-damage-vaping-does-to-lungs/11516316

    As a lung-imaging scientist, I develop new ways to see inside the chest so that lung abnormalities can be easily measured and monitored in patients.

    I see the devastating effects inside the lungs of cigarette and cannabis smokers. I also see how the airways are destroyed and how millions of air sacs appear demolished or completely wiped out, all of which results in severe breathlessness, miserable quality of life and then death.

    An MRI image showing damage inside lungs

    PHOTO: The lung MRI of an ex-smoker of cannabis and tobacco, showing poor lung function and truncated airway tree. In vaping patients, oily substances have also been found inside their lung tissue and airways. (Suppled: Grace Parraga)

    Because of my experience developing new ways to image the lungs and seeing the impact of inhaled smoke and gases on lung health, I have been disturbed that governments and regulators have taken a hands-off approach to the risk of e-cigarettes.

    I am alarmed that e-cigarette marketing has become pervasive, persuasive and widespread in the US and Canada, especially when this marketing targets children and teenagers in whom lung growth and development has not yet completed.

    • weka 5.1
      17 September 2019 at 9:38 am

      seems a no brainer to me: regulate in the same way as tobacco (including in pubic spaces). Better yet, also make it a med that has to be bought from a pharmacy.

      It's fucking ridiculous that people are saying inhaling chemical-carrying vapour multiple times a day deep into your lungs won't have harmful effects.

      • The Al1en 5.1.1
        17 September 2019 at 10:45 am

        I mentioned in my responses about vaping a few days ago how Doctors don't advocate anyone start vaping, for the same reasons noted above about smoking tobacco or cannabis – Putting anything your lungs apart from clean fresh air is a bad decision. However, smokers are advised to switch, because it is deemed the safer option.

        Harvard edu on vaping damage to lungs

        Ignoring the recent cluster of u.s cases, likely to be caused by contaminants, their bottom line is "Perhaps vaping should be viewed as a “lesser of evils” for current cigarette smokers." which is what the medics have told us.

        For those smoking cannabis, the outlook is not so good.

        American lung Assoc on weed smoking damage to lungs

        Vaping "may have similar respiratory health effects as e-cigarette use." but smokers have a far worse bottom line and projected end game.

        Though obviously not as bad as tobacco smokers

        https://www.lung.org/stop-smoking/smoking-facts/health-effects-of-smoking.html

        • weka 5.1.1.1
          17 September 2019 at 11:07 am

          People can make choices about which they want to do based on their own health, no problem with that. My concern is the people saying that vaping is benign for the vaper and those around them. It's not and it's daft to say that. We should be regulating this around advertising, public space and so on. The push for it to be trendy and everywhere is capitalist, hipster bullshit.

          • weka 5.1.1.1.1
            17 September 2019 at 11:09 am

            I would apply that to cannabis too. Same regs on public spaces (and enclosed spaces like cars), don't allow advertising. The capitalists are going to be all over cannabis too if they get the chance. Hoping we can legalise without making the mistakes the US has.

          • Sacha 5.1.1.1.2
            17 September 2019 at 11:09 am

            The 'push for it to be everywhere' is funded by tobacco companies. Enough said.

            • weka 5.1.1.1.2.1
              17 September 2019 at 11:22 am

              yep.

            • The Al1en 5.1.1.1.2.2
              17 September 2019 at 11:24 am

              I know I've never bough a vape product, or been influenced to by a tobacco company, though of course that doesn't mean some haven't since they've entered the local market.

              • Sacha …
                17 September 2019 at 11:33 am

                The current saturation marketing push seems timed to get in before the product is regulated. How it has not been mystifies me.

                • The Al1en …
                  17 September 2019 at 11:39 am

                  They're trying to get market share where they have historically had none, and with the big money comes big advertising and promotion, but that's not all going there way.

                  Big tobacco in NZ – Stuff

                  There are indications vapers feel the same. According to a survey of US and Canadian vapers conducted by Dr Tanusree Jain of Trinity College Dublin, a large proportion of vapers blame Big Tobacco for their past addiction to cigarettes and hold negative views of Big Tobacco owned e-cigarette brands.

          • The Al1en 5.1.1.1.3
            17 September 2019 at 11:22 am

            I've never met someone or seen any advocate for vaping say they aren't without risk, which I suppose is why they are an r18 product, even the non nicotine e liquids.

            Not being either I don't know if it's capitalist hipster bs, remembering how cigarettes use to be 'cool' too and they were/are really gross, but if more regulation is needed then so be it. Advertising should probably run along the lines of tobacco ie None, and public spaces like smoking should be off limits, if people aren't already considerate with their habit, which I know, some aren't.

            I don't agree that flavours should be banned for consenting adults, but if they are, what will be etc… we can always add our own, though of course that makes a bit of an ass out of the law where nicotine is permitted but a flavour draws the foul and gets a red card.

        • WeTheBleeple 5.1.1.2
          17 September 2019 at 12:58 pm

          Vaping is to Labour as Cigarettes are to National.

          The lesser of two evils is correct. I guess it's the marketing why some vapers think they're doing themselves no harm. As an ex-smoker and vaper I'm trying to keep my head out of the clouds, and looking to stop the vape in time – but addiction has its hooks deep. Other substances have been by comparison easy to give up while nicotine will mess with me psychologically for years after a quit event.

          When you add mental health issues like depression into the mix, a malady known for exacerbating self destructive behavior, it is no surprise so many still partake.

          Promoting it seems criminal, except as an alternate to smoking. The underlying causes of mental stress and depression range considerably, but much might be placed squarely at the feet of a society that competes rather than cooperates and places money before man; with governments and media that exacerbate division and derision of fairer human characteristics.

          The opportunists aka capitalists with no moral compass have an awful lot to answer for. Opiate epidemic in US = money money money.

          • The Al1en 5.1.1.2.1
            17 September 2019 at 1:24 pm

            Promoting it seems criminal, except as an alternate to smoking.

            I originally read this and was preparing to strongly disagree, until I noticed 'except'. lol

            As an alternative to smoking, even without long term data to support it, it's a common refrain from those who have made the switch. I've said before I recommend it to every smoker I meet, not only for the real up change in lifestyle, but especially financially.

      • cleangreen 5.1.2
        17 September 2019 at 4:27 pm

        True weka 100% That vaping chemicals together in combinations that have never been toxicology analysed as together in a combined synergistic insult may be far more harmful than each component used separately.

        Even more than that one must also consider the combined effects sitting in a room with several others vaping with other chemicals added into their vapor will be added to the air all are breathing and even add a more toxic soup to human health damage, so we need to stop vaping as it is just like playing Russian roulette.

  7. Bruce 7
    17 September 2019 at 9:33 am

    Interesting to learn that the university is such a hot bed of smokers desperate to get off the cigs that the benevolent producers of vapes have taken to sponsoring slots on the student radio to help these students get the help they need.

    • WeTheBleeple 7.1
      17 September 2019 at 1:03 pm

      In my post-grad classes there was maybe 1:30 smokers. Typically the only person out for a smoke break with me was staff. Undergrad probably twice that. Can only speak for the biological sciences…

  8. marty mars 8
    17 September 2019 at 10:14 am

    wtf?

    Ngāti Kahu chief executive, Anahera Herbert-Graves, said the Ministry of Culture and Heritage did not consult with the iwi before including the Mangonui area in the list of destinations for the voyage.

    "They never approached Ngāti Kahu, they were approached by a local tauiwi organisation and were invited to come into our rohe. I don't think it occurred to them to contact Ngāti Kahu.

    "About four or five months ago we saw the programme come out.

    "They were going to land in Mangonui, inside Tokerau, and we put it back to the mana whenua hapū. The three hapū were very strong in their opposition, they said no-way jose.

    and the response is, well, an absolute joke and shameful imo

    The deputy chief executive for the Ministry of Culture and Heritage, Tamsin Evans, said Mangonui was earmarked as a destination for the voyage because it was the home of the Waka Hourua expert, Sir Hector Busby.

    She said the ministry thought it had sufficient iwi support, following talks with a single iwi representitive.

    "I think the ministry engaged with a small community organisation, called the Doubtless Bay Promotions Trust, on which there was somebody in an iwi liaison role.

    "It was felt sufficient that through the promotions trust we had a wider engagement with the community, which included someone we believed was liaising with iwi."

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/115843712/captain-cook-replica-banned-from-docking-in-mangonui-during-commemoration

    History eh – just make it up – now this is some history

    Ms Herbert-Graves said Captain Cook never actually landed in the Ngāti Kahu rohe.

    "Cook never came into our rohe, he sailed by, and apparently cast his eye to the port and said, 'oh, that's Doubtless Bay.' It's a fiction for him to 're-visit' us because he never came.

    "He was a barbarian. Wherever he went, like most people of the time of imperial expansion, there were murders, there were abductions, there were rapes, and just a lot of bad outcomes for the indigenous people.

    "He didn't discover anything down here, and we object to Tuia 250 using euphemisms like 'encounters' and 'meetings' to disguise what were actually invasions."

    • bwaghorn 8.1
      17 September 2019 at 11:33 am

      Can I ask what position in the tribe the "single iwi representative " holds.

      • Sacha 8.1.1
        17 September 2019 at 11:44 am

        Missionary. 🙂

      • weka 8.1.2
        17 September 2019 at 12:49 pm

        Hey B, is it the Farmers Weekly that's the good rural newspaper?

        • bwaghorn 8.1.2.1
          17 September 2019 at 3:04 pm

          It's the one that isnt totally bias. Gives all sides a platform . This week is quiet a feature on how much pressure is supposedly being heaped on farmers from the governments massive reform programmes.

          I put supposedly as it could be true but being just a lowly shepherd it’s all above me . ( just the way I like it)

  9. Peter 9
    17 September 2019 at 10:21 am

    I see a Herald headline today: Mike Hosking: 'Now I'm not so sure we are being fleeced on petrol prices." Was he a tobacco salesman and lobbyist in a previous life?

  11. marty mars 11
    17 September 2019 at 12:07 pm

    What a disgraceful idiot this person is

    A Hamilton City councillor with a history of public blunders has made a tearful apology for parking in a disabled parking spot during a council event.

    A photo posted to Facebook shows Siggi Henry's signed campaign car parked over a disabled parking spot at the Hamilton Gardens.

    Half of the car is pictured within the lines while the other half protrudes out of the park and onto the road.

    "I have never parked like this is my life … It is so out of character for me to do something like that."

    ummm yeah nah it is totally IN character for you imo

    It's not the first time Henry has made headlines for offensive statements and actions.

    Earlier this year she apologised for wearing an anti-vaccine t-shirt to an autism awareness event. Weeks later, Henry came under fire for sticking a flu shot "fact sheet" on her office door, stating what she believed to be the dangers of influenza.

    And in a 2017 council debate, Henry said falling fat people were a health hazard because they could fall on you.

    She also has a history of opposing anti-fluoride, saying "smarty pants" scientists had brainwashed the public.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/115845570/hamilton-city-councillor-makes-teary-apology-for-disabled-faux-park

    • AB 11.1
      17 September 2019 at 2:25 pm

      We actually have a disability parking permit – but seldom use it because the boy is doing well and he feels that the space can be left for someone who needs it more. I have always thought that society is able to function only because of a myriad of such small acts of virtue – far more so than merely obeying the law. But it looks like such good nature just provides an 'opportunity' for the Siggis of the world.

      • greywarshark 11.1.1
        17 September 2019 at 2:34 pm

        She was obviously in a hurry – pulled up and jumped out and was snapped in that second. She may have been busting to go to the loo, that is very disabling. We can give people the benefit of the doubt sometimes i think.

    • Sacha 11.2
      17 September 2019 at 2:28 pm

      She can't even steal a mobility park properly. Clown.

  12. Poission 12
    17 September 2019 at 12:52 pm

    The law of unintended consequences and the genetically modified mosquito that has gone wild.

    https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/1172907395439312899

  13. florabunda 13
    17 September 2019 at 1:02 pm

    We should not forget that while there are plenty of philandering men out there,

    there are also plenty of silly women.

    [Please stick to one user name, thanks]

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • Dukeofurl 13.1
      17 September 2019 at 4:39 pm

      What a terrible thing to say … being silly is irrelevant ..or having a drink or wearing what you please.

  14. greywarshark 14
    17 September 2019 at 2:16 pm

    People are getting sick and tired of Boorish. I bet he would never sit and eat his meals nicely when his parents had him around. Now the EU feels like spanking him, but of course they are too civilised, and instead are developing a new nuke that personalises by going after your smell and DNA with cells that they have grown from a swab of a dog's nose. (No animals would have been hurt in the experiment except Boorish. They probably have got Eion Musk interested in it.) /sarc

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49715705 Brexit: Boris Johnson attacked by Luxembourg PM over 'nightmare'

    https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-49695563/passports-and-nationality-the-brits-going-dutch-over-brexit

    Channel 4 News 846K subscribers

    It was the day BoJo went No Show. Boris Johnson, in Luxembourg for talks with EU officials, abruptly pulled out of a joint press conference with the country's prime minister Xavier Bettel, amid noisy anti-Brexit protests opposite the podiums. Mr Bettel, who heads one of Europe's smallest countries, promptly upstaged Mr Johnson by going ahead without him, describing Brexit as a "nightmare" for EU citizens. You can't hold people hostage for party political reasons, he said, and don't blame us for the mess you made. Mr Johnson is still insisting there is time to agree a Brexit deal.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1178721/Brexit-news-Boris-Johnson-Benn-no-deal-delay-today-live-BBC-backstop-UK-EU

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-no-deal-boris-johnson-leave-legal-loophole-a9107051.html 'Flaw' in legislation passed by MPs means opponents of no-deal will need to take 'counter measures' to ensure UK does not crash out of EU next month, barrister says

    A thinkpiece for constitutional law watchers. https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2019/09/13/oliver-garner-the-benn-burt-extension-act-a-roadblock-to-a-no-deal-brexit/

    The Charge of the Light Brigade       I
    HALF a league, half a league,
       Half a league onward,
    All in the valley of Death
       Rode the six hundred.
    'Forward, the Light Brigade!
    Charge for the guns!' he said:
    Into the valley of Death
       Rode the six hundred.

           II
    'Forward, the Light Brigade!'
    Was there a man dismay'd?
    Not tho' the soldier knew
       Some one had blunder'd:
    Their's not to make reply,
    Their's not to reason why,
    Their's but to do and die:
    Into the valley of Death
       Rode the six hundred.

    That's the spirit, forward, follow me say the doughty warriors, and be remembered for being heroes who overcame rationality, rode forth trying to take the high ground and fell on your noses.

    Boorish as the Black Night, (come on ya pansy) the EU is with the King of the Britons in this debacle.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=886hNDgwfMk

  15. Peter 15
    17 September 2019 at 2:21 pm

    Paula Bennett in the House today all concerned about ethics.

    Was she the one who released the personal information about Winston Peters before the last election?

  16. greywarshark 16
    17 September 2019 at 2:30 pm

    The media can't help itself even while it pats itself on the back for being a virtuous outlet. Take note how they will reach into records of your past and will stick you at will with sad events you wanted to let lie. This in the Otago Daily Times which I thought had standards.

    https://www.odt.co.nz/sport/cricket/ben-stokes-family-tragedy-half-brother-sister-shot-dead-children

  17. Peter 17
    17 September 2019 at 2:50 pm

    Paula Bennet can get up Parliament and under privilege mention the name of someone alleged to have done something but Winston Peters can't get up and mention Judith Collins as a person connected to Oravida?

    • ianmac 17.1
      17 September 2019 at 3:44 pm

      Certainly a bit odd Peter. Mallard did refer to Ruling 23 as to why, but we amateurs may not reason why. Must be pretty compelling but of course most would know the Collins connection.

  18. Dennis Frank 18
    17 September 2019 at 3:09 pm

    I agree with the idiot (/savant): http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2019/09/contempt.html – I hadn't noticed that the British legal establishment had decided to pull the plug on British arms manufacturers. Is there a whiff of revolution in the air over there??

    Will the minister who broke the law get punished? Seems a real test of the traditional expectation of `rule of law' only applying to the wealthy & powerful when standard evasion strategies fail.

  19. Dennis Frank 19
    17 September 2019 at 3:39 pm

    "The president of New Zealand's criminal lawyers' society supports legalising cannabis for personal use", reports Stuff. "The association said its membership comprised 700 practicing criminal lawyers across New Zealand… "I think most members would support legalisation of cannabis for personal use," Andersen said." https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/115818154/legalise-weed-criminal-lawyer-group-president-says

    Seems significant, inasmuch as parts of the establishment making progress hardly ever happens. Sadly, the 80% of Aotearoans who have voluntarily embarked on the outlaw lifestyle are now threatened with the establishment seal of approval. I wonder, when the mystique evaporates, what other form of rebellion they will seek.

  20. Dennis Frank 20
    17 September 2019 at 4:26 pm

    Listening to the 4pm RNZ news, I thought I heard Winston accusing Jacinda of issuing fake news. Apparently she told the media he was having a month off due to knee surgery, or something, so when he returned & media asked him about it he said no, that was fake news. Well, he could have said she misunderstood, eh?

    So if there's headlines screaming `Deputy PM accuses PM of fake news' it will mean journos took it like I did. I doubt Winston had that intent. Just shows the fine line between perception & reality, eh? 🙄

  21. cleangreen 21
    17 September 2019 at 4:33 pm

    Judith Collins must be ready to come home now to face our accusers of the 'Oridiva demolition pipe company' scandal now?

    smileyWelcome home Judith.

    Queen Judith Orivida Collins. Digger operations Manager of the Kauri Swamp log & Auckland Airport Energy pipeline destruction cover-up It’d. (2014).

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/115811300/fuel-firms-told-to-invest-at-auckland-airport-by-june-or-government-should-step-in

    The inquiry report published on Tuesday said a digger operated by a "contractor" suspected of damaging the fuel pipeline in 2014, setting in motion its later failure, was owned by Auckland company Oravida Kauri, which was renamed Kauri Ruakaka the following year

  22. joe90 22
    17 September 2019 at 5:10 pm

    Shapiro's inerrant right wing logic at work here.

    https://twitter.com/JasonSCampbell/status/1173628757221019651