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Open mike 17/12/2012

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 17th, 2012 - 88 comments
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88 comments on “Open mike 17/12/2012 ”

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  1. Jenny 1
    17 December 2012 at 6:47 am

    ‘
     
    After “Super Storm Sandy” struck New York, gaining wall to wall media coverage.
    After the deadly tornado struck North Auckland, (following the track of the deadly tornado that struck the same area last year).
    After last Tuesday’s “Super Storm” Bopha devastated the southern island of Mindanao in the Philippines, (Despite Super Storm Bopha being “unprecedented” that close to the equator, unlike Sandy this terrible tragedy barely gained a mention in the local media, despite leaving hundreds dead and missing and an estimated 400,000 homeless.)
    And due to hit about now, “Super Cyclone Evan” after killing ten people in Samoa is reportedly gaining strength and is bearing down on Fiji. Samoa was savaged by Evan on Thursday leaving four confirmed dead and eight people missing from fishing boats.

    However unlike “Super Storm”  Bopha, earlier in the week, “Super Cyclone”,Evan has gained the media’s attention here.

     
    <blockquote>In an unusual speech to the nation, Tuilaepa told the largely Christian state that there was a time for every season, and that God balances all things.
    “The most poignant concerns that are distressing world leaders at the moment are the disastrous changing weather patterns that will allow the occurrences of cyclones, tsunamis, earthquakes, flooding and other disasters, which all emanates from man abusing the garden that God appointed him to tend, such as the mindless cutting of trees excessively warming the environment resulting in disasters not often experienced before,” he said.
    He said deforestation near rivers and streams led to Samoa’s disaster.
    “Likewise the extreme deforestation near rivers and streams which, consequently, now results in the loss of lives and the destruction of homes nearby due to flash floodings.”
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/south-pacific/8086706/Fiji-under-curfew-as-cyclone-arrives</blockquote&gt;

    Once is a coincidence, twice is a happenstance, three times is a conspiracy
    Winston Churchill

    As more energy is trapped in the system due to the Greenhouse effect, are these “Super Storms”, “Super Cyclones” and tornadoes to become regular events?

  2. bad12 2
    17 December 2012 at 6:56 am

    Storms, cyclones, and, tornado’s have for all of history been regular events, attaching the epithet ‘super’ to these weather events is the only thing that is ‘new’ about them…

    • bad12 2.1
      17 December 2012 at 7:49 am

      In 1853 Dobson published a list of 24 Hurricanes from Pacific Island groups, Dobson and several subsequent records were cited in ‘Tropical Cyclones of the Pacific’, (Visher 1925), Visher lists ‘325’ Cyclones passing through the various island groups in the South Pacific,

      The record includes Cyclones between 1789 and 1923.

      A review of these sources and the data compilation for Western Samoa, (Puaga and LeFale 1988), has resulted in a list of 79 cyclones which have impacted Western Samoa between 1831 and 1990, the list indicated that more than 5 events with winds of 30 or more knots wind speed can be expected each decade….

      Google= Probability andf recurrence of tropical cyclones in Western Samoa.

      ict.sopac.org/VirLib/TR0106.pdf

      Ps, The above is talking of cyclones that actually impact Western Samoa, there’s plenty more that miss which are not included….

  3. felixviper 3
    17 December 2012 at 7:09 am

    So what happens when under the TPPA the U.S. guns and ammo manufacturers decide they’re being unfairly locked out of the NZ market by our relatively restrictive gun laws?

    • mickysavage 3.1
      17 December 2012 at 7:23 am

      I hate to think but no doubt in Court the gun companies will argue that guns do not kill people, people do …

      • vto 3.1.1
        17 December 2012 at 8:10 am

        “the gun companies will argue that guns do not kill people, people do …” This is the dumbest argument in the universe.

        Surely it is clear that people with guns kill people.

        • mickysavage 3.1.1.1
          17 December 2012 at 8:32 am

          And people without guns, particularly homicidal maniacs or the insane, will not be able to.
           
          I agree.
           
          It is just the weird place that the US right to bear arms debate has got to. 

          • QoTViper 3.1.1.1.1
            17 December 2012 at 5:56 pm

            particularly homicidal maniacs or the insane

            I think this kind of stereotyping is really beneath you, mickey. Non-neurotypical people are no more likely to commit violence than neurotypical people, and labelling all homicidal shooters as “crazy” is just a really good way to stop people taking the scarier parts of America’s gun culture seriously.

            • Andre 3.1.1.1.1.1
              19 December 2012 at 4:23 pm

              { conn usa }4 people dead a few hours ago domestic dispute with girlfriend …. Ban girlfriends or guns ?

              [lprent: If you want to assert a fact, then generally link to it so other people can see what you’re talking about. ]

      • PlanetOrphan 3.1.2
        19 December 2012 at 4:24 pm

        DunnoKeyo version ….

        “It a lack of heartbeat that kills people”, how it stopped beating is not my pervue M8!

    • higherstandard 3.2
      17 December 2012 at 7:30 am

      nothing.

      • felixviper 3.2.1
        17 December 2012 at 7:36 am

        What makes you say that? The tobacco companies certainly don’t share your view.

        And what on earth is the point of the agreement if nothing happens?

        • Morrissey 3.2.1.1
          17 December 2012 at 7:40 am

          In that fellow’s case, Felix, “nothing” refers to the amount of thought, and reading, he has put in on the matter.

        • higherstandard 3.2.1.2
          17 December 2012 at 8:03 am

          Not only is your dogwhistle in poor taste it’s been answered in my single statement.
          Nothing will change in relation to NZ’s gun laws under a TPPA.

          • Morrissey 3.2.1.2.1
            17 December 2012 at 8:09 am

            And why not? Do the gun manufacturers not have the “right” to insist their product have open access to New Zealand?

            Or do you think Smith & Wesson, etc. are not as hard-headed and brutal as Big Tobacco?

            • higherstandard 3.2.1.2.1.1
              17 December 2012 at 9:14 am

              “Do the gun manufacturers not have the “right” to insist their product have open access to New Zealand?”
              No.

              • Morrissey …
                17 December 2012 at 9:16 am

                They WILL if the Key regime gets away with signing the TPP agreement.

                • higherstandard …
                  17 December 2012 at 9:39 am

                  Rubbish.

                  • vto …
                    17 December 2012 at 9:51 am

                    higherstandard, I don’t understand why you have such faith and trust in the government, not to mention John Key and his merry band of robbers.

                    • higherstandard …
                      17 December 2012 at 9:53 am

                      I have little to no faith in this or any government.

                    • felixviper …
                      17 December 2012 at 10:09 am

                      You say that, yet here you are rubbishing us for not having faith and trust in Key and his government.

                      See hs, when all the available facts contradict your beliefs but you continue to hold them, as you’re doing here and in the boot-camp thread and pretty much every time you post anywhere, that’s faith.

                      And in your case that faith is currently placed in Key and his govt. Pretend all you like, it’s here in black and white.

                    • higherstandard …
                      17 December 2012 at 11:23 am

                      Felix

                      Apparently you have some facts about changes in gun law or gun importation/export post a potential TPPA care to share ?

                      My position is there is no evidence nor precedent to support your suggestion that the TPPA or indeed any FTA will lead to any change in gun law, access or importation into or out of NZ.

                      Merry XMAS

                    • felixviper …
                      17 December 2012 at 11:27 am

                      Your faith is touching. Misplaced, but touching.

                      Given the facts, and the international precedents, the onus is on you to show that the weapons industry won’t have the investor-state provisions of the agreement at its disposal under the TPPA.

                    • higherstandard …
                      17 December 2012 at 11:44 am

                      What international precedents ? What facts ?

                    • felixviper …
                      17 December 2012 at 12:59 pm

                      The precedents of sovereign governments being sued and/or bullied into submission by corporations under the terms of free-trade agreements, of course.

                      Silly goose.

                    • higherstandard …
                      17 December 2012 at 1:09 pm

                      Links ?
                      Relevance to guns and gun law ?

                      Silly gander.

                    • felixviper …
                      17 December 2012 at 3:43 pm

                      There’s nothing controversial in what I’ve written. Everything I’ve referred to has been well reported.

                      However I’m in no mood to chase links for a self-admitted trool who has already had them provided before.

                      ps I’m not the one who’s trying to present guns and ammo as a special class of product that will magically be unaffected by the TPPA, you are.

                    • higherstandard …
                      17 December 2012 at 4:35 pm

                      Wow another argument you’ve won you are the king of the standard.

                    • TheContrarian …
                      17 December 2012 at 5:10 pm

                      I may be wrong but I am pretty sure Australia hasn’t changed its gun laws in light of a free terade deal with the States. Neither has Britian for that matter.
                      The USA has free trade with 17 different countries all with varying gun laws. Going by this it would seem highly unlikely that we’d have to change ours.

                    • higherstandard …
                      17 December 2012 at 5:13 pm

                      What would you know you RWNJ.

                  • felixviper …
                    17 December 2012 at 9:59 am

                    And there’s higherstandard’s whole argument.

                    Never mind the whole investor-state issue, never mind that companies will be able to sue NZ if we limit their rights to our markets, never mind what the tobacco companies are up to, and never mind applying the same logic to other industries.

                    higherstandard says it’s rubbish, despite having been totally schooled every time he has pretended to be an expert on the TPPA, so that’s that.

                    Nothing to see here.

                  • Fortran …
                    17 December 2012 at 10:19 am

                    higherstandard

                    Quite right – what a bullshit comment from Morrissey.
                    But I suppose all right as it is Monday – he is still churning from the weekend.

                  • Morrissey …
                    17 December 2012 at 11:59 am

                    You really are a True Believer.

          • AwakeWhileWalking 3.2.1.2.2
            17 December 2012 at 8:10 am

            1) The agreements being made are confidential so you have no way of knowing what Key & Co. intend to sign us up for

            2) The whole issue with the TPPA is that it allows foreign companies to seek damages from our government for any law that disadvantages them commercially. It is naive and shortsighted to assume that nothing will happen. As long as we are considering being a party to the TPPA then the sovereignty of our nation is at risk.

            @FelixViper – good point. There are so many other nasty consequences of the TPPA that you are the first that I know of to question the guns/ammo issue. God help us if the Amercian gun lobby gets a foot in NZ. Could even force the arming of our police.

            Lots of things to hunt in NZ.

            • Draco T Bastard 3.2.1.2.2.1
              17 December 2012 at 11:12 am

              Could even force the arming of our police.

              The way this government is going it won’t be long that our police are armed any way. They’ve already given the police more power and easier access to guns.

          • Tracey 3.2.1.2.3
            17 December 2012 at 9:22 am

            Are you in a position financially or otherwise to make good on your guarantee in the event you are wrong? The head of the Police union is constantly seeking the arming of our police (greater arming) which will require a change “to NZZ’s gun laws”. You may be safe in that the gun lobby (here and overseas) will funnel their message and drive through that organisation so it may never appear it was TPPA driven.

            IF tobacco companies selling a product they admit harms and can kill people can sue for damages for not being allowed to have their brand on packets….

  4. Morrissey 4
    17 December 2012 at 7:38 am

    Children speak to Obama, the weeping President….
    http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1355617642.html

  5. David Viperious H 5
    17 December 2012 at 7:58 am

    I saw Shearer on TV3 not too bad, no stutters as such. But what a dreamer he is. “The Leadership battle is well and truly over,” he says. “Labour had a good year”.
    The Leadership battle is NOT over, and Labour had one of the worst years on record I say again. what a dreamer!!!

    • tc 5.1
      17 December 2012 at 9:13 am

      If that’s a good year for Labour wonder what a bad one looks like.
      One after another shoocker from the NACT and sweet FA pinned on them either in the house or ouside it….Dreamer isn’t a word I’d use. Dellusional more like.

    • Tiresias 5.2
      17 December 2012 at 9:33 am

      When Shearer obtained the leadership I hoped Labour was getting real person to front it rather than a politician, as has always been the case with the Greens.
      Alas, with comments such as this and his bland, emptily verbose ‘statements’ carried on this blog Shearer is showing himself to be just another politician with no regard for or appreciation of the fact that his audience might have a shred of intelligence and views of their own rather than empty vessels to be filled with whatever he wants them to believe, even when he doesn’t believe it himself.
      Not that I believe Cunliffe would be any better.

  6. Dv 6
    17 December 2012 at 9:48 am

    After the stella successes of
    Class sizes
    novopay
    CH reorganization
    Salisbury school

    The MOE are now reorganizing the truancy services according to an interview on 9 to noon.

  7. Fortran 7
    17 December 2012 at 10:23 am

    Shearer is possibly a good Manager -but never a Leader.
    Not the same thing.
    Very rare to find both.
    Clark was great at both, as she had Heather alongside too.
    But perhaps she overmanaged finally.

  8. vivaciousviper 8
    17 December 2012 at 10:39 am

    Shearer saying the leadership issue is over, once again, he is not accpeting the membership’s
    wishes with regard to leadership,there are many members and potential voters wanting and expecting a genuine election for leadership in Feb 13, his stance will increase the mana and greens vote in 2014.
    Shearer say’s ‘I know nothing, I see nothing, I hear nothing’
    His ignorance is bliss.

  9. geoff 9
    17 December 2012 at 11:31 am

    Great to hear Mike Williams agree so much with Matthew Hooton on RadioNZ right now…

    • fender Viper 9.1
      17 December 2012 at 12:11 pm

      Yes I’m also disappointed to hear Mike start every statement with “I agree with Matthew”. Mike must be fishing for BBQ invites.

      There is one thing I agree with Hooton on however: “Hekia Parata should be fired.”

      • geoff 9.1.1
        17 December 2012 at 1:39 pm

        Something else i noticed during the segment… Kathryn Ryan appeared to be getting her hackles up a bit when both Hooton and mike had a go at Nick Smith. It made me wonder if there is a bit of a personal connection between them.

      • Benghazi 9.1.2
        17 December 2012 at 5:01 pm

        I used to respect Mike Williams a lot. But somtime over the past few years he seems to have turned into a ‘yes’ man. Says just whatever the current Leadership team wants him to say and I worry about his grwoing policy vacuum – if he has a spine I’m not seeing or hearing it.

    • Morrissey 9.2
      17 December 2012 at 12:18 pm

      Occasionally Williams has taken it to Hooton and humiliated him. The pity of it is that most of the time all he does is, as you say, make a point of finding common ground with Hooton.

      Williams is still far better than Josie Pagani, although occasionally even she has taken it to Hooton—and triumphed. Hooton is not impressive when his statements are challenged, so it’s a pity that his opponents so rarely challenge him.

    • Rhinoviper 9.3
      17 December 2012 at 1:12 pm

      Unfortunately, he also agreed with Hooton’s generalisation that pregnant women were unfit for work.

      • LynWiper 9.3.1
        17 December 2012 at 1:45 pm

        What?! You have got to be joking!

        • Rhinoviper 9.3.1.1
          17 December 2012 at 5:05 pm

          About 22:15 onwards.

          Hooton: “You’re meant to take leave when you’re pregnant, aren’t you? You take leave from work.”

          Ryan: “Keep digging, Matthew…”

          Williams: [laughs] “Matthew is quite right”.

          Whatever Mahuta’s faults, I don’t think they’re due to her lady-parts.

      • karol 9.3.2
        17 December 2012 at 3:14 pm

        I’m trying to listen to it right now, but it hasn’t maintained my attention.  It’s a boring rambling discussion, with little that’s enlightening.

        • andre 9.3.2.1
          17 December 2012 at 4:18 pm

          Hooton always says same old rubbish week in week out . lets have debate He is the only one who gets anything out of disscussion.. re just picks up another cheque from RNZ

        • bad12 9.3.2.2
          17 December 2012 at 4:22 pm

          What was slightly enlightening was Williams joining in with Hooten to bag the Greens Russell Norman,

          Hooten, hardly a full to overflowing suitcase of intellectual rigor was again taking to Russell over the Greens willingness to print money to spend into the New Zealand economy according to ‘the little fat toad’, (as opposed to His mate Blubber Boy,’the big fat toad’), ”No Government can print money unless interest rates are zero”, unquote,

          What really gets me when such ‘comment’ is allowed to be repeated over and over as Nine to Noon gives Hooten free rein to do, without allowing Russell Norman the courtesy of a reply is that ‘what’s her face’ the presenter and even the pathetic Williams didn’t demand of Hooten a factual basis for such an assertion,

          Perhaps ‘the little fat toad’ should have taken more notice of both the US and just held Japanese elections, the Prez quoted during His election campaign openly stated that each month He will print the monies needed and every month until there is ‘a recovery’ He will cause the same to happen,

          The next Prime Minister of Japan elected as late as yesterday is promising to do exactly the same thing…

          • Morrissey 9.3.2.2.1
            17 December 2012 at 5:18 pm

            I endorse everything you’ve said about the way Williams, Pagani, Peter Harris (remember HIM?) and a host of other utterly ineffective “commentators from the left” have simply sat back and let Hooton say anything he wants.

            Only two people ever challenged him strongly: Laila Harre and Sue Bradford.

    • tc 10.1
      17 December 2012 at 1:20 pm

      Hell yeah ! We’ve no redundancy if stn cross cable goes down and Telecom and partners are taking the piss with pricing on a cable that’s not even fully utilised currently.
      Competition is desperately needed to overcome our small population/bottom of the world factors.
      More common sense agenda setting from the greens.

    • geoff 10.2
      17 December 2012 at 1:44 pm

      Nice +1

    • LynWiper 10.3
      17 December 2012 at 1:50 pm

      Liking the Greens more and more! +1

    • karol 10.4
      17 December 2012 at 2:53 pm

      NRT has a good post on it too.
       

      As for the actual policy, they’re suggesting taking a cornerstone stake in a second international fibre-optic link, to ensure both competition and redundancy in case of failure. This is priced at $100 million, but as they point out, that’s just 0.8% of the amount National has wasted on its “Roads of National Significance”. national would no doubt complain that investment should be left to the market, but the market has failed to provide this basic infrastructure, therefore its the government’s job to step in – just as it did for electricity and railways in their day.

      Secondly, they’re pushing changes to government procurement, to push them towards local providers for IT services, and to use open standards and open source software where possible. Finally, they want to reverse Nationals’ proposed change to the Patents Bill, and outlaw software patents.

    • OneTrackViper 10.5
      17 December 2012 at 8:25 pm

      Won’t they just nationalise Telecom? Surely they can’t be thinking of relying on competition to bring the price down. That’s neolib thinking.

      • Draco T Bastard 10.5.1
        18 December 2012 at 12:46 am

        I know that you’re being facetious but that would actually be the best option. Selling Telecom means that we’ve lost ~$16b dollars due to the dead weight loss of profit just from Telecom. Adding competition means that we’re now adding in even more costs as well as more of the dead weight loss from profit.

  12. Morrissey 12
    17 December 2012 at 4:15 pm

    News of the Day in a Moronic Way
    The Panel, National Radio, Monday 17 December 2012

    Jim Mora: What else have you got for us, Richard?

    Richard Langstone: Danny Boyle has turned down a knighthood.

    Mora: Oh yes. Maybe he’s hanging out to be Lord Boyle.

    Barry Corbett: Ho ho ho ho ho!

    Langstone: He he hee heeee heeeee!

    Mora: Lord Boyle! Ha ha ha ha ha!

    Langstone: It’s not a surprise, really, though, is it? He’s from Lancashire, so he would have thought, I don’t want any of your soft southern honours! A hee heee heeee heeee.

    Corbett: Ha ha ha ha ha!

    Mora: Ha ha ha ha ha!

    Thus a serious moral and political point is reduced to nothing by the lofty thinkers on The Panel.

    • vto 12.1
      17 December 2012 at 4:24 pm

      Barry Corbett a lofty thinker? Ha ha ha ha ha ha

      • Morrissey 12.1.1
        17 December 2012 at 4:46 pm

        Corbett is a Noam Chomsky compared to the drone who’s talking right now, i.e. Chris Wikaira.

    • bad12 12.2
      17 December 2012 at 4:32 pm

      The best reason for anyone listening to either Nine to Noon or Afternoons with Jim Moron these days is to gain a understanding of just how badly ‘dumbed down’ the political/social discourse has become in New Zealand,

      The best defence i can mount on behalf of RadioNZ National is that i got spoiled by Kim Hill….

  13. andre 13
    17 December 2012 at 4:26 pm

    Morgan Freemans quote was fake. Apparenly re RNZ panel . but valid ..

    • Morrissey 13.1
      17 December 2012 at 4:44 pm

      Whether it was made up or not, it was NOT valid. It was vacuous.

      If Clint Eastwood is the most doo-lally old coot in Hollywood, without a doubt Morgan Freeman is the most boring.

      • andre 13.1.1
        17 December 2012 at 4:55 pm

        “Glory killing” seems to be gaining traction for these events ,media has a part to play in this? Less focus on killers THAT is the key.

        • Morrissey 13.1.1.1
          17 December 2012 at 5:21 pm

          Nonsense. The reason he killed those children was because he had such ready access to those lethal weapons.

          If you want censorship, why don’t you and the most boring grandpappy in the world move to North Korea?

          • higherstandard 13.1.1.1.1
            17 December 2012 at 5:29 pm

            If you looking for nonsense look no further than the first part of your comment.

            • Morrissey 13.1.1.1.1.1
              17 December 2012 at 5:35 pm

              “If you [sic!] looking for nonsense look no further than the first part of your comment.”

              What? What was nonsensical about “the first part” of my comment?

              • OneTrackViper …
                17 December 2012 at 8:27 pm

                “What? What was nonsensical about “the first part” of my comment?”
                Just the whole thing. Slowly read what you said and think about it.

                edit: I see McFliper has already pointed this out

          • McFliper 13.1.1.1.2
            17 December 2012 at 5:31 pm

            Um, to be a semantic bore, the reason he could kill that many people was his access to firearms.
                   
            His actual motives are unknown. The Secret Service did note in their 2002 report into school shootings that a quarter of shooters in the study had at least a partial motive of getting attention or recognition. 
                
            Oh, and that 4/5ths apparently had some sort of grievance before they went berserk.

          • andre 13.1.1.1.3
            17 December 2012 at 5:33 pm

            Not censorship maybe,just read a book on psychology .This might be a new phenomenon?

            • Morrissey 13.1.1.1.3.1
              17 December 2012 at 5:38 pm

              By “a new phenomenon”, you mean the last link that Jim Mora has latched on to during the superficial web-surfing he does instead of serious reading.

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