Open mike 18/05/2023

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 18th, 2023 - 60 comments
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60 comments on “Open mike 18/05/2023 ”

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  1. Sanctuary 1
    18 May 2023 at 7:48 am

    The Waipareira Trust does a lot of good stuff, but as long as John Tamihere remains it's chief executive it'll be tainted. Tamihere's attitude – "thanks for all the money whitey but it is actually ours in the first place so if you colonists and pillagers think we are accountable to you for how it is spent well we are not so piss off" – means his approach to using public money is cavalier to the point of outright illegality and corruption.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/waipareira-trust-to-try-to-claw-back-385k-in-loans-to-john-tamihere-campaigns/BUB2PAXWBBAIDKFIK723Z7C4Z4/ (paywalled)

  2. SPC 2
    18 May 2023 at 8:25 am

    Because it's a no frills budget.

    • Shanreagh 2.1
      18 May 2023 at 11:11 am

      And because we don't want or need criticism I am sure that Hon Robertson would love to be doing the moves and lyrics to this from Michael Jackson……wink

      Can I get Moonwalk in, somehow, perhaps as an aspiration that we will all have the chance to dance and sing and be happy and these are all important to our WELLBEING….(budget)

  3. Red Blooded One 3
    18 May 2023 at 8:27 am

    Drip… drip… drip…

    Stay strong Christopher, we want you exactly where you are.

    • Mac1 3.1
      18 May 2023 at 9:20 am

      How does it feel to be the latest in a long line of recent National Party leaders to know that your deputy has been asked by reporters whether it is true that business leaders have approached her with a concern to depose you?

      Also, what a bastard of a question to be asked it it were true. Do I lie?- but lies will be found out. Do I say yes but I turned them down? Do I say yes but I told them please wait a little while longer? Do I say yes but tell them I'm still working on getting caucus support.

      The standard answer is "The Leader has my full support at this time."

      But that is not an answer to this question of whether she has been approached or not.

      And the reporters can smell what is dripping……

    • AB 3.2
      18 May 2023 at 10:59 am

      Be careful what you wish for. Willis is capable of inflicting a totally hard-arsed austerity on us, whereas Luxon might pull up a bit short of that. Willis might be the reincarnation of Ruth Richardson, except that Ruth still walks among us, both invisible and ever-present, a malevolent inversion of the Holy Spirit.

      • Red Blooded One 3.2.1
        18 May 2023 at 11:32 am

        That's why I wish him to stay strong, strong enough to stay Leader of the OPPOSITION.

  4. Bruce 4
    18 May 2023 at 8:45 am

    Interesting revelations on how the tax system is rigged for the rich in Australia, I guess its the same here.

    https://youtu.be/8HBxv6mnQZI

  5. Bearded Git 5
    18 May 2023 at 9:41 am

    Kathryn Ryan failed to ask the key question (yet again) in her interview with the CAB and arts people on RNZ 9 to noon this AM.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon

    Mayor Wayne Brown has supposedly softened his position and has now offered to keep funding the CAB and the arts but ONLY if the Council sells its Auckland Airport shares.

    Effectively, in order to give money to CAB and the arts that they already had, he is blackmailing the Council and all Aucklanders by making this conditional on the airport sale, which will doubtless profit his rich mates.

    But Ryan while mentioning it, never pushes for answers on this key point. Useless, or is she just pro the sale?

    • mpledger 5.1
      18 May 2023 at 11:54 am

      Selling the airport shares is insane. You don't sell something that is giving you a profit unless it's for something that makes you a bigger profit.

      Give a man a fish and he eats for one day. Teach a man to fish and he eats for life.

      Someone wants Auckland to eat for one day.

      • Patricia Bremner 5.1.1
        18 May 2023 at 12:05 pm

        "Selling Airport Shares" Asset stripping deception, done sleight of hand by Brown.

    • Patricia Bremner 5.2
      18 May 2023 at 12:02 pm

      Ryan used to give Hooten an hysterical platform…. she is right… right!!

  6. pat 6
    18 May 2023 at 9:51 am

    Was mental health an increased problem during earlier 'depressions' ? (1880s and 1930s)

    • arkie 6.1
      18 May 2023 at 10:03 am

      Given that the discipline itself didn't become formalised as a field until 1948 it is unlikely there is any evidence either way.

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2408392/

      • pat 6.1.1
        18 May 2023 at 10:23 am

        Anecdotal observation or medical records perhaps (or newspaper reporting) ….it was a musing that I thought perhaps someone had studied and could answer.

        • mpledger 6.1.1.1
          18 May 2023 at 12:09 pm

          Probably suicide counts are the best way to measure mental health distress at that time. Although they are probably undercounts since there was still quite a stigma to committing suicide.

    • tWiggle 6.2
      18 May 2023 at 10:52 am

      Before the invention of antibiotics and the Welfare State, people had to be tougher both physically and mentally to survive childhood. Chances are then, if you were depressed and couldn't work, it was a fatal affliction, via poor diet, followed by illness and death.

      Of course, if you had the dosh, you could just take to your bed.

    • joe90 6.3
      18 May 2023 at 11:00 am

      Was mental health an increased problem during earlier 'depressions' ?

      The >45 rate was twice the current rate so it likely was.

      In 1930 the rate of suicide among those over 45 was more than 35 per 100,000, whereas for those aged 15–24 it was about five per 100,000.

      https://teara.govt.nz/en/suicide/page-2

      • Adrian 6.3.1
        18 May 2023 at 12:25 pm

        After having two hips replaced and the agonising wait, while trying to carry on working, it crossed my mind why pain was maybe why suicide had been so prevalent in earlier times. The thought was fostered by having read somewhere that one of the most common causes of death among the British in the nineteenth century was by suicide and often by pistol shot. Hip operations and other painful afflictions were not able to be fixed until the 1950s, prior to that the only option was amputation at the hip and bed for life. Apparently, morphine or laudanum addiction was also high. So the main cause may not have been depression but the inability to bear pain any longer. In my own case I also remember sitting on the side of the bed after about 6 months of struggle and wondering why I wasn't experiencing depression symptoms because I certainly felt like I had cause too, but concluded that I must just be lucky. Didn't bloody feel like it though.

    • Belladonna 6.4
      18 May 2023 at 11:08 am

      I think that it would be a very difficult question to answer absolutely one way or the other. But I would come down on the 'yes' side.

      Suicide is linked to depression (higher rates of depression result in higher rates of suicide). So it would be feasible to use the suicide rate as an indicator of depression within the population.

      And this data from the US shows an increased suicide rate in the 1930s.

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3093269/

      Graphical analyses showed that the overall suicide rate generally rose during recessions and fell during expansions.

      The largest increase in the overall suicide rate occurred during the Great Depression (1929–1933), when it surged from 18.0 in 1928 to 22.1 (the all-time high) in 1932, the last full year of the Great Depression. This increase of 22.8% was the highest recorded for any 4-year interval during the study period.

      Hard data in NZ would be unreliable. Depression was neither widely understood, (and therefore diagnosed or treated), nor a socially acceptable diagnosis. There was comparably little understanding of PTSD in soldiers returning from WW1. Suicide was an enormous social stigma – and doctors and coroners would frequently record the cause of death as an 'accident' on the official documentation – to spare the family.

    • Patricia Bremner 6.5
      18 May 2023 at 12:10 pm

      Yes, and men left their families and walked for work, and many died. There was only Church charity, and that is where the saying "Cold as Charity" springs from. plus a vision of the "Deserving poor". There were marches riots and smashing of shopfronts.

      • Phillip ure 6.5.1
        18 May 2023 at 12:46 pm

        The most recent iteration of the deserving/undeserving poor evil/trope was from helen clark..when she was prime minister..

        The meaning being that the working poor deserved support/help from her/her 'labour'(in name only) government..

        And all the other poor could just go rot…

        Which she followed through on…

  7. Phillip ure 7
    18 May 2023 at 9:57 am

    Ok..not so easy to do..but it has to be said: wayne brown does good..(I know..!..I know..!)

    I just heard an interview on rnz with an expert in urban waterways renewal.

    And he told us that brown has bought forward a 30 year plan to fix Auckland a waterways/parks..to be done in six years..

    And the good news is that all the preliminary work/planning has been done..

    It is all ready to go…

    When the interview (k.ryan) goes online..I recommend it be given a listen..

    • Belladonna 7.1
      18 May 2023 at 11:12 am

      Here's the link:

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018890676/auckland-s-billion-dollar-flood-recovery-programme

      Heard it briefly on the way to work this morning – and it seemed like a remarkably pragmatic attitude and program – 'let's get started doing something effective right now; rather than waiting for the perfect answer to emerge from all the post-flood reviews'

      “The ‘Making Space for Water’ programme is being developed by the Council’s Healthy Waters stormwater department, with the mayor saying it’ll be rolled out over six years – instead of the 30 it would normally take.”

      Joining Kathryn is Matthew Bradbury – Associate Professor of landscape architecture at Unitec-Te Pūkenga.

      • Phillip ure 7.1.1
        18 May 2023 at 12:55 pm

        If brown delivers on this…it will guarantee his re-election…

        So I think he knows that..so he will..
        And as a means to an end..I can live with that..

    • tWiggle 7.2
      18 May 2023 at 3:50 pm

      Wayne Brown governing by decree, as opposed to in council by consensus. Big-noting in the most obnoxious way. If the plan was already in place (the hard work of previous councils), then it's very probable the council would have fast-tracked the plan anyway, given this year’s rainfall.

      Brown gets to look good with no effort on his part.

      • Phillip ure 7.2.1
        18 May 2023 at 8:09 pm

        C'mon..!…the incrementalist goff was clearly comfortable with a 30 year timeframe..

        Brown has fast tracked this down to six years…

        I am no fan of the man…but credit where credit is due… surely..!

        And yes the groundwork is already done…which is a Good thing..and I underline my claim that if he delivers on this..he will be re-elected..

  8. tWiggle 8
    18 May 2023 at 11:01 am

    Big Hairy News interviews Chris Cahill on Act's gun policy

    After 2019 NZ Police began tracing the source of guns used in crimes. Most come from legal purchases deliberately onsold to gangs, etc. Chris Cahill demolishes the case for Act's policy. Note that Act list MP Nicole McKee is a gun lobbyist.

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/nicole-mckee-firearms-freedom-and-family

  9. Anker 9
    18 May 2023 at 11:25 am



    An excellent submission to the Education select committee, by Speak up for Women. Suzanne starts her presentation by saying she is a member of the the Rainbow Community.

    she makes excellent points about why do we need this legislation after the last bill 3 years ago?

    This time SUFW submission is treated respectfully. For those of you who are unsure about SUFW feel free to listen. The presentation was clear, well reasoned, logical and constructive

  10. aj 10
    18 May 2023 at 12:51 pm

    Out of the mists of time, a Paul Holmes clip goes semi-viral

    https://twitter.com/henrycooke/status/1658954541293862913?cxt=HHwWgoC8xbSX5YUuAAAA

    Full clip

    Great sentiments from these great artists, Kristofferson and Nelson still with us, Willie turned 90 last month.

  11. ianmac 11
    18 May 2023 at 1:14 pm

    Pat Brittenden raised an interesting idea. He thought of the long term "transformative policy that NZers now refuse to let go of." The list included:

    Working for Families

    Interest free Student loans

    Gold Card

    Kiwisaver

    Social Security Act + incl Health

    State Housing.

    Then noticed that all of those were Left/Labour introductions.

    So he asked could any one think of ones introduced by National/right wing. And no-one could. Thats interesting. My wife said that National cancelled the Child Allowance. Grrr.

    • Craig H 11.1
      18 May 2023 at 1:50 pm

      My observation is Labour makes changes, National manage the status quo.

      Could add a few things to that list – ACC and DPB (now sole parent support) come to mind.

    • Peter 11.2
      18 May 2023 at 4:00 pm

      Interest will come back on Student Loans when Seymour is back in.

    • tWiggle 11.3
      18 May 2023 at 4:03 pm

      Add the Waitangi Tribunal to Labour's list, but remove Gold Card, that's Winston's pork-barrelling (although a good idea). I believe Winston may have also been behind the formation of Kiwibank as a balance to the Aussie banks.

      • Adrian 11.3.1
        18 May 2023 at 4:58 pm

        I think Kiwibank was a Jim Anderton initative.

        • tWiggle 11.3.1.1
          18 May 2023 at 5:31 pm

          Sorry, thanks for that. It's quite hard to find info in a quick on-line search to verify the dusty corners of my brain. I did remember it as a minority party initiative. My apologies, Jim A.

  12. tsmithfield 12
    18 May 2023 at 1:23 pm

    Further to the discussion yesterday about drinking water, an important consideration is the effect of chlorinated water on other health conditions. For instance, Chlorinated water is known to aggravate skin allergies and asthma symptoms.

    This is confimed by the ChCh City Council website also.

    Asthma has been known to kill people. I should know. A friend of our family died from an asthma attack a number of years back.

    I think the case for chlorination is a no brainer in areas where the water is dodgy. But, where it is well managed, and has been proven to be safe, chlorination might cause more deaths than unchlorinated water.

    So, if we never have a disease outbreak, 0 deaths. But if 3 people die from asthma attacks in the next 10 years due to chlorine in the water, then it clearly is safer to have unchlorinated water.

    • ianmac 12.1
      18 May 2023 at 1:28 pm

      Ts. Probably the Water Regulator has to be conservative in decision making. Imagine if chlorination ceased then an outbreak happened. Howls would echo around the country.

      • tsmithfield 12.1.1
        18 May 2023 at 1:52 pm

        That sounds more like a face-saving argument than a public health one.

        • adam 12.1.1.1
          18 May 2023 at 11:48 pm

          One aspect of public health is about prevention. And it's a hell of a long bow to claim anyone could die from Asthma because of chlorine in drinking water. What is it 0.01 or 0.02 parts per million. Just not going to happen.

          It's a bit like saying stupid comments can kill you, if you only believe it.

          As I said, no one is stopping you from buying a water filter. if it keeps you up at night.

    • Ad 12.2
      18 May 2023 at 1:38 pm

      That's more a Parts Per Million question rather than a technology rejection.

      Christchurch are not unique and the dosing methodology is a well worn debate within the national water supplier and public health industries.

      • tsmithfield 12.2.1
        18 May 2023 at 1:56 pm

        I agree the amount of chlorine in drinking water is much lower than in a swimming pool.

        But, some people are highly sensitive to even very small amount of irritants. For instance, my wife's sister is a celiac. She gets violently ill with even small traces of gluten.

        So, I wonder if the risk assessment has been done on the risk of not chlorinating the water vs chlorinating it.

        As I said, where water is dodgy, the chlorination side of the argument would clearly win. But, I don't think it is so clear cut when the water supply is well monitored, well maintained, and has a long history of being safe.

      • tWiggle 12.2.2
        18 May 2023 at 4:14 pm

        https://newsline.ccc.govt.nz/news/story/chlorine-exemptions-your-questions-answered

        Here are just some of the reasons the exemption was denied:
        Exemption can’t be granted while parts of Christchurch are uncompliant.
        Lack of quantification of potential viral risk to source water.
        Recent total coliform and E.coli results from contamination.

        Suggested chlorination is at low level, 0.2 ppm.

    • ianmac 12.3
      18 May 2023 at 7:12 pm

      Living in Papanui/Christchurch in the 50's, neighbours had a link to clear clean artesian water. It bubbled up a pipe which went into a "ram," which used the force of the water flow to power the ram. It used two thirds of the water volume to pump 1/3water into a holding tank. The excess 2/3 water ran down into a creek. Clunk….clunk….clunk.

      I doubt that any artesian water now survives to reach the surface any more and doubtful that it is still pure

      • Mac1 12.3.1
        18 May 2023 at 10:46 pm

        ianmac, I too lived in Papanui in the Fifties, and Sixties!

        I remembered during the discussion here the artesian water from a drinking fountain on the north west corner of Hagley Park after a game of cricket.

        Funny but driving around our present town today and seeing the pipe works brought to mind seeing in the Fifties the centre of Bligh's Road in Papanui with a timber-lined trench being piped and then afterwards the road rolled with a steam-roller and resurfaced.

        • ianmac 12.3.1.1
          19 May 2023 at 4:18 pm

          The ram I spoke Mac of was on Horner street just north of Blighs Road.

  13. Stephen D 13
    18 May 2023 at 9:18 pm

    A lot of this could well describe the National Party. Especially the likes of Simeon Brown.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/18/first-edition-national-conservatism-conference?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other