Open mike 18/03/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, March 18th, 2013 - 170 comments
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Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

170 comments on “Open mike 18/03/2013 ”

  1. Jenny 1

    Why did Solid Energy fail?

    Because they are led by blind Fossil Fuel Fanatics who dragged naive National Party Ministers in their wake…..

    Simon Power, State Owned Enterprises Minister at the time, wrote to Solid Energy chairman John Palmer that ”Ministers are encouraged by the vision of Solid Energy” in developing the plan, acknowledging the work that had gone into the proposals.

    The Government had not released the proposals which Solid Energy put to it, but Key was adamant the documents backed his claims.

    ”In the end the paperwork speaks for itself, they want to have a national resources company, there was actually some logic in what they were saying, it was a big and audacious plan,” he said

    However despite the support of the overawed, starry eyed Ministers, the plans of Solid Energy were completely unrealistic and out of touch with the global realities of fossil fuel use.

    At a time in human history, when, even repressive regimes, not noted for their humanitarian concerns, are ordering cutbacks in fossil fuel, use out of fear of climate change. At this time of international talk of cutbacks and restraint. The lunatics in charge of New Zealand’s Solid Energy, were dreaming of empire building.

    Solid Energy approached the Government with a $27 billion plan to turn itself into a New Zealand resource giant.

    Documents released by the Beehive minutes before John Key was due to face the media today, show that in 2010 the state owned mining company wanted to take over Crown-owned oil and gas permits as well as move into iron sands.

    This was part of a plan to become a national resources company (NRC).

    As well as coal mining, the company wanted to move into lignite conversion, unconventional gas.

    Treasury documents show officials believed it would require $2-$3 billion in investment, with total investment of $27 billion.

    How crazy is that?

    And the National Government went for it, hook line and sinker.

    So why did presumably rational Government Ministers fall for this fantasy?

    The fossil fuel fanatics at Solid Energy entertained visions of the huge profits to be made from fossil expansion which they put before the Ministers. It was this vision of a fantastic El Dorado presented to them which gave rise to them to leave to their senses. Shunting niggling concerns about climate change (which could affect such grandiose plans) to the back of their minds.

    Like all victims of a scam their greed overcame their common sense. The Nats should have taken heed of the old saying “If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is.”

    It took treasury to inject a bit of rationality back into the debate:

    The Treasury report on the proposal recommended against it because it used an ”aggressive” set of assumptions about the future oil price, claimed there was a narrow window of opportunity, that ”supernormal” – extremely high – profits would come from the plan which could not be captured through other means.

    Our world is dying. That is the reality of fossil fuel use and expansion.

    Blinded by visions of wealth and power the Nats chose to forget this fact.

    They have not been the first, and all the indications are, that they will not be the last, to make this fatal error.

    • bad12 1.1

      Actually ‘the fossil fuels fanatics’ at Solid Energy as you describe them did not push ‘climate change’ to the back of their minds,

      The fossil fuels fanatics at Solid Energy were taking positive steps in the capture and sequesture of industrial amounts of CO2 from the atmosphere at the production stage of it’s planned diversification,

      To achieve this capture and sequesture from the atmosphere of industrial amounts of CO2 Solid Energy was investing in the technology with the Australian firm CO2CRC,

      Seeing as the Government has now effectively financially kneecapped Solid Energy we will probably never know if it is possible to produce, (as i assume Solid Energy was attempting), fossil fuels whereby such fuels are in effect carbon neutral by way of the producer withdrawing by an industrial means the same amount of carbon that would be produced in the production and burning of the particular fossil based fuels being produced…

      • Bill 1.1.1

        … we will probably never know if it is possible to produce, …, fossil fuels whereby such fuels are in effect carbon neutral by way of the producer withdrawing by an industrial means the same amount of carbon that would be produced in the production and burning of the particular fossil based fuels being produced…

        But we already know that’s simply impossible.

        It might be possible to susbstantially reduce the amounts of carbon being expelled into the atmosphere from a given amount of burned fossil fuel. But that would mean extracting even more fossil fuels because efficiencies are necessarily reduced by any capture process. And anyway, since we are talking about cumulative totals of atmospheric carbon, reducing rather than eliminating emmissions ultimately serves no useful purpose.

        • bad12

          ”But we already know that that’s simply impossible”,????

          Do we??? from what i have read it is highly feasible, using renewable energy such as wind/hydro to fuel the means of extracting from the atmosphere industrial amounts of CO2 is highly feasilbe and is being studied and put into practice as we speak,

          Putting aside for the moment the fact that there are ‘different sorts’ of CO2 it is not necessary to capture X CO2 from the point of it’s emission which in effect is the ‘impossibility’

          Industrial amounts of CO2 can be extracted from the atmosphere in places of high air movement where the CO2 is effectively brought to the means of extracting it from the atmosphere by such air movement,

          If the same amount of CO2 is being captured and withdrawn from the atmosphere at say for arguments sake the Cook Strait,(an area of high air movement) as what is being produced across the whole country then you have in effect a carbon neutral economy…

          • bad12

            PS,”But we already know that that’s simply impossible” is not a debate, where is the science that definitively shows this impossibility,???

            There is very little that is ‘impossible’ and according to British engineers they can even pull CO2 from the atmosphere and using much the same machinery of refinement as what is used now refining oils to petrol turn that air/CO2 into a petrol product…

            • Bill

              It’s just the basic laws of physics. If you are capturing all of the carbon then you cannot be using the carbon to produce energy for purposes other than capturing the carbon. And that’s not going to be 100% efficient. Can’t be – physics again.

              As for the atmospheric carbn being captured and converted to fuel – yeah, I vaguely recall reading some tosh in one of the UK broadsheets. Took upwards of a year to produce a smidgeon of fuel. And all the energy inputs required for the process….?

              • bad12

                Who is talking about being 100% efficient, it will cost obviously, one ‘theoretical study’ i have read is that that cost will be around 13 cents a tonne if the carbon capture and sequesture is of an industrial scale,

                And, it is YOU that now puts forward some claim as if to say that i insinuate that all the carbon capture will or need be turned into fuel so as to enable the carbon capture to occur which is not what i have said at all,( but it’s always easier to debunk a point of debate that has not been made than one that has right)…

                • Bill

                  So can you provide links to these studies?

                  • bad12

                    Yeah sure, about the time you provide a link to the science that says ”but we all know that that’s simply impossible”…

                    • bad12

                      Oh YAWN, where have i been discussing such things, i have been pointing out that CO2 can be extracted from the atmosphere and used in fuel or in the manufacture of other products/chemicals,

                      i have at no point suggested that as much or more energy will be gained from doing so as what is expended upon the original extraction of that CO2 from the atmosphere,

                      What i am suggesting is that IF such extraction were conducted upon an industrial scale using solar/wind energy to fuel such extraction with sale-able products as a by-product of the CO2 extraction then it (the extraction) is more likely to occur AND will cost less than would simply extracting the CO2 from the atmosphere and sequestering that CO2…

                    • Bill

                      JFW bad. Look, it’s a really simple request. Will you provide a link to the stuff you’ve read or not? I’m not really interested in wasting time arguing whether you said *this* or *that* in relation to *whatever* or not. People reading the thread can discern that kind of stuff for themselves. I just want some links to the stuff you’ve been writing about is all.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      Oh YAWN, where have i been discussing such things, i have been pointing out that CO2 can be extracted from the atmosphere and used in fuel or in the manufacture of other products/chemicals,

                      i have at no point suggested that as much or more energy will be gained from doing so as what is expended upon the original extraction of that CO2 from the atmosphere,

                      Actually, you did.

                      Now, the energy in a litre of fuel is somewhere in the vicinity of a hell of a lot and the energy used to refine oil is somewhere around not a hell of a lot. What we want to know is where the extra energy is coming from.


                    • bad12

                      Draco, YAWN, that says no such thing…

                    • bad12

                      Bill, i dont talk in abbreviations, whats JFW??? ”but we all know that that’s impossible” wheres the link specially to the ”but we all know bit”…

          • Bill

            Where is capturing vast amounts of atmospheric carbon by technological means being put into practice? And where are the vast storage facilities located? The only somewhat sizable project I’m aware of is in Norway where one of their N. Sea oil rigs is designed to pump carbon back into the space created when oil is extracted. But that’s small cheese and doesn’t involve re-capturing atmospheric carbon.

            • McFlock

              I vaguely recall a solar power one extracting atmospheric carbon.

              Basically, it is the basic law of physics that creating fuel from air needs an energy input, be it from solar, wing or hydro. Which means we should probably regard hydrocarbon fuel in this case as an energy-dense battery, rather than a new energy source.

              It’s not my thing, but any such technology would need to of course extract meaningful amounts from 400ppm carbon air. Although I forget my 6th form chemistry what is needed to calculate how much air is required to give a kilo of octane based on atomic weights.

              • bad12

                Yeah you are onto what is being explored by the scientists through either wind or solar power there is produced a usable fuel which in effect stores the sunlight or wind in the liquid fuel much as a battery stores electricity,

                Of course the danger of reliance upon CO2 extracted from the atmosphere as a fuel is that we would then extract too much of it and we would then be in the same climate position that we are now,

                Heres the basic science,

                CO2+Pyridnium Catalyst+Platinum Electrode+ Methanol,

                And then along comes someone with the smarts to be able to do the same less the heavy metals,

                Modified microbes turns carbon dioxide into fuels,

                Of course at the point of Methanol being produced their is no need to continue on to fuel production as Methanol is heavily used in the production of plastics which have a long life so would ‘fix’ the CO2 extracted from the atmosphere for a far longer period of time than simply creating fuels would do,

                The Methanol Industry-Methanol Institute,

                • bad12

                  Awww not again, those links are obviously not going to work, if you Google the heading above the link it should take you to the page…

                  • bad12

                    And, that little equation should read,

                    CO2 + Pyridnium Catalyst + Platinum Electrode = Methanol…

                    My bad…

            • Scintilla

              I was reading this article from the NYTimes earlier, about gassifying coal and storing the CO2 underground. My questions: How could CO2 leakage be controlled – and what happens in a major earthquake?
              Coal’s new technology

              “Then there are the questions about what happens to all that CO2 once it’s pumped underground. “We have confidence that large-scale CO2 injection projects can be operated safely,” a study on the future of coal by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology concluded. But since our experience with large-scale injection is so limited, no one knows for sure what the risks are. CO2, which is buoyant underground, can migrate through cracks in the earth and around old wellheads, pooling in unexpected places. This is troublesome because CO2 is an asphyxiant — in concentrations above 20 percent it can cause a person to lose consciousness in a breath or two. In theory, you could enter a basement flooded with CO2 and, because it’s an invisible, odorless gas, you would never know it’s there. “

  2. Morrissey 2

    Study shows most “journalists” and “experts” are frauds
    by Jamie, New Left Project, 10 March 2013

    Yesterday, the Israeli newspaper Ha’aretz reported that journalists and experts are bullshitters, nearly to the last one.

    Some background. One unambiguous Israeli victory in its attack on Gaza last November, journalists and experts widely concurred, was the performance of its ‘Iron Dome’ missile defence shield in shooting down projectiles fired from Gaza. The BBC’s Jonathan Marcus reported on the “remarkable” progress in missile defence technology represented by Iron Dome, evidenced by its “recent success” in the field. His colleague, Mark Urban, described Iron Dome’s “impressive” performance, while the Guardian‘s Harriett Sherwood reported Iron Dome’s “considerable success”. “The naysayers now are few”, observed the New York Times‘s Isabel Kershner—or non-existent, to judge by the number quoted in her article. The Atlantic‘s Jeffrey Goldberg was satisfied that Iron Dome “is doing a very good job”, though he quoted a “friend… who knows a great deal” fretting that Iron Dome might, if anything, be too effective. The experts, too, seemed to agree. For dovish Israeli academic Ron Pundak Iron Dome was a “game changer”; for Shashank Joshi of the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI) it “represent[ed]… a major shift for Israel”; for the respected International Crisis Group, “the success of… Iron Dome” was not in doubt. The Council on Foreign Relations’ Max Boot spoke for most when he wrote:

    “The latest Gaza war is only a few days old, but already one conclusion can be drawn: missile defence works”.

    This expansive edifice of journalistic and expert analysis, pontification and reportage was based on a single source: official Israeli government statistics, which claimed a success rate for Iron Dome of approximately 84 per cent. The BBC’s Mark Urban was unusual in noticing that this was a not entirely disinterested authority—Israel’s government being “anxious to dismiss the impression that it has not [sic] been humiliated by Hamas”—but he proceeded to rely on its data regardless. Most reported Israel’s official line uncritically.

    With surprising speed, the accumulating media and expert consensus on the success of Iron Dome became self-reinforcing, its existence taken as evidence of its own accuracy. Thus Max Fisher informed readers of the Washington Post that Iron Dome is, “by every appearance, a remarkable success”—”every appearance” being useful journalistic shorthand for “every regurgitation of the exact same set of official Israeli data”.

    Read more….

    • Jenny 3.1

      …… I read Bill McKibben’s Eaarth, in which he argues that our familiar Earth has vanished and that we now live on a new planet, Eaarth, with a rapidly changing ecology. He writes that without immediate action, our accustomed ways of life will disappear, not in our grandchildren’s adulthoods, but in the lifetimes of middle-aged people alive today. We don’t have 50 years to save our environment; we have the next decade.

      Our old future is gone. Matters are urgent. We have to do something now.

      • muzza 3.1.1

        Jenny, its most likely about right, we probably don’t have 50 years to turn it around, its is not already too late!

        If people want to make an instant, positive impact, and do something useful for the environment, they need to research and focus their efforts on halting geo-engineering.

        Failing to get the modification stopped is going to provide a much faster conclusion, that the capitalist sponsored destruction can ever dream of!

        It requires a multi faceted approach though, so the deniers need to stop crying conspiracy, and start paying attention!

        • Murray Olsen

          Which geo-engineering exactly needs halting?

          • muzza

            Hi Murray, hope you’re well

            You have a Ph.D don’t you, I’m sure that gives you a few options in the *know where to find things* department.

            Here is a clue – Its has been going on for almost 100 years now, and purposefully, for more than 60.

            Remember, I used the term, geo-engineering

            • Murray Olsen

              I’m not well, I have a PhD, and I can’t be bothered looking without a bit more of a hint. Life is too short.

      • bad12 3.1.2

        Damned if we do and damned if we don’t then??? the way you have put that would mean that if we do nothing the life we are accustomed to is doomed,

        Of course to take the courses of action that you would suggest would mean that the life we are all accustomed to is also doomed,

        Pushing a barrow with a lose/lose lead balloon as the freight must be hard work…

        • Bill

          Not that we are doomed. Just that the market economy is doomed. And that’s no bad thing when the resultant prospect of freedom ( eg, the development of substantive democratic systems for governance, production and distribution) is taken into account.

          And the sooner we take the necessary steps, the less onerous the environment where our freedom can be expressed.

          • Jenny

            No. we are doomed. If we wait for capitalist society to collapse, it will be to late.

            It is also possible, that the collapse of society as we know it, will remove the resources and organisation we need to make the global effort to halt climate change.

  3. tc 4

    From Granny’s piece about the TAB closing it’s Ellerslie phone betting centre down….”plus “prohibitive” future costs for removing asbestos and other work.”

    so It’s OK for workers to be in an environment with known asbestos then, thought that was a big no no.

    • bad12 4.1

      Yeah, the TAB get the ‘Bastards of the Week’ award for such callous behavior, along with the issue of ‘asbestos’ the TAB invested in a betting system which did not work and lost the TAB $14 million dollars,

      It would be interesting to see what sort of pressure has recently been applied to the TAB from Slippery’s National Government for increased returns to the Government from that organization and/or directions for the TAB to raise it’s level of borrowings…

    • Bill 4.2

      so It’s OK for workers to be in an environment with known asbestos then…

      Yup. Christchurch. It was absolutely okay for workers and inhabitants, obviously including children, to live in the midst of – and daily inhale – asbestos laden dust blowing through the city post quake and for said contamination to be spread further as it was simply scooped and transferred through the city to dumping sites (Lyttleton Harbour?)

  4. why is this not happening here yet..?

    ‘..currently the labour party is still too wedded to its’ past mistakes..both economic and political..

    (for labour going to war in afghanistan at the behest of america being a political whopper of a mistake..and their serious drinking of the neo-lib economic-kool-aid for those decades is still weighing them down..

    ..and with most of the actors in that farce/lurch to the right..still in control of the labour party..)

    ..and most of the union movement are still just lurking in their self-interest-bunkers..

    ..and something they need to look hard at is their history of standing by and saying/doing those neo-lib labour/national regimes kicked the crap out of the weakest/poorest..for all those years..

    ..where was the union movement then..?..’

    phillip ure..

  5. I really struggle to understand these violent people – is it just that they can’t stand being told what they can or can’t do even if they never listen anyway.

    The poll of 1000 randomly selected people was undertaken by Curia Market Research for advocacy group Family First.

    Respondents were asked whether the anti-smacking law should be changed to state that “parents who give their children a smack that is reasonable and for the purpose of correction are not breaking the law”.

    Of those asked, 77 per cent said yes, the law should be changed. Asked whether they thought the anti-smacking law had had any effect on child abuse, 77 per cent of respondents answered no.

    They were also asked whether they would still smack their child to correct behaviour, despite the law.

    Two out of three respondents, or 68 per cent, said they would.

    77% of respondents are fucken arseholes and 68% are controlling violent bastards. Children are not dimwitted small possessions – they are young people that deserve respect and protection and value for their unique attributes.

    • r0b 6.1

      I’ll put up a post on this shortly…

      • vto 6.1.1

        Don’t forget to include the jackboots of the State – the only organisation empowered to utilise physical sanction to achieve its ends. For balance of course.

        And perhaps something about historic use of physical sanction in previous societies. Just to see whether the current situation is out of kilter with history. Helps with that balance eh.

      • LynWiper 6.1.2

        Please call it what it is…the child protection law….

    • muzza 6.2

      I’ll assume that the figures for child abuse have trended down since this law came to pass..

      No dead, maimed, beaten children in NZ nowadays ???

        • ghostrider888

          I made Child Abuse and Neglect an area of focus in my degree papers on Human Development, Abnormal Psych, Community Psych and Rehabilitation (the latter of which I received a personally addressed commendatory letter from the HOD) let’s call CAN a personal area of “expertise”; apologies for the immodesty.

          • McFlock

            false modesty is a bigger sin 🙂

            From what I recall, the WINZ notifications are probably a better source than hospital admissions for overall CAN because it takes a lot and needs to be obvious for a clinician to definitively diagnose abuse as a cause of injury (the percentage going around the traps is less than half of actual admissions), but the admissions are probably a good indicator of amount of serious physical harm.

            • ghostrider888

              so Ma Kelly’s Greasy Spoon then…
              on another note

              “We’re so sorry Uncle Albert
              We’re so sorry but we haven’t done a bloody thing all day 😉
              (but if anything should happen
              We’ll be sure to give a ring) ”

              “Measured objectively, what man can wrest from Truth by passionate struggle is utterly infinitesimal. but the striving frees us from the bonds of the self and makes us comrades of those who are the best and the greatest.

              There is no place in the new kind of physics both for the field and the matter for the field is the only reality. The field is the sole governing agency of the particle.

              What humanity owes to the personalities like Buddha, Moses and Jesus ranks for me higher than all the achievements of the enquiring and constructive mind.

              The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a servant. We have created a society that honours the servant and has forgotten the gift.

              If at first the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it.

              The pursuit of truth and beauty is a sphere 😉 of activity in which we are permitted to remain children all our lives.

              I maintain that the cosmic religiousness is the strongest and most noble driving force for scientific research. (sadly now it’s War, Hubris and Money mainly)

              Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe- a spirit vastly superior to that of man.

              The divine reveals itself in the physical world.”

              now to Werner; “What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning’ ($)

              I have never found it possible to dismiss the content of religious thinking as simply part of an outmoded phase in the consciousness of mankind, a past that we shall have to give up on from now on.”

              and Uncle Pauli; “I consider the ambition of overcoming opposites, including a synthesis embracing both rational understanding and the mystical experience pf unity, to be the mythos spoken or unspoken of our present day and age.”

              to conclude with Werner, (not F.)
              “The first gulp from the glass of the natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass, God is waiting for you.” (both Kuhns prism)

              anyway, the secularists have heard about our godlessness, and they are on there way; freakin Dawkins, talk aabout throwing your prayer beads out of the cot and going on a crusade.

              “and the joker man and the sailor man were searching everyone!”

              • McFlock

                yeah nah you’ve lost me there.

                • ghostrider888

                  Einstein, Heisenberg, Pauli on, well, on just about everything. 🙂 (so the “campus” is a medical one then.) 😉

                  • McFlock

                    I got the physicists’ names, I’m just no theologian 🙂

                    • Hi McFlock,

                      I don’t think anyone has to be a theologian, just sensitive and responsive to the ‘majesty’ of reality (i.e., it’s bigger than us – it really is, so stop all the trying to ‘get it’ and just act accordingly).

                      I remember reading that the difference between the philosophy of Heidegger and that of Wittgenstein was that the former, at base, responded to the world with a question mark. The latter responded with an exclamation mark (i.e., even the movement to a question was too hubristic and meant you weren’t seeing reality clearly – ‘perspicuously’ – and encountering it directly).

                      Wittgenstein’s final words, supposedly, were: “Tell them I’ve had a wonderful life.” – not bad for someone who had very dark moods, a passionate temper, possibly attempted suicide several times and lived an austere and spartan life, despite being born into one of the wealthiest families in Vienna.

                      Wittgenstein could not be religious (in the ordinary sense of the word) because he realised that religiosity was not about knowledge or belief – just a particular way of meeting the world, and going on in it (which he thought he lacked – more fool him).

                      The truth really mattered to him, which was why knowledge could never be enough (always partial, as we all ‘know’). Hence the quotes from the physicists saying pretty much the same thing – they’ve all been down that particular rabbit hole.

                      Pretty simple stuff, really. Nothing complicated (cf Heidegger). Which is why it’s hard for many people to get. They often think that ‘it’ (i.e., ‘the answer’ to some Heideggerian question mark) has something to do with metaphysics, or some obtuse, labyrinthine ‘understanding’, or whatever. It hasn’t.

                      I think the big ‘fail’ with many religious people is that their ‘spiritual’ world (heaven, the after life, ‘being with God’, etc.) is just a paler, lighter and more translucent – and incoherent – copy of the material world. Casper the Friendly Ghost stuff or perhaps an image of beatific calmness – all-in-all, the ‘other world’ you have when you don’t have an ‘other world’ (so you make a copy of the one we have – with a kind of wispy, washed-out water-colour effect).

                      A bit sad really, though I guess if it does the trick … Personally, I’m happy with just the one world. It seems pretty spiritual to me – everywhere I look. And pretty material (thank God!) with all the unsatisfying ‘messiness’ that entails.

                      I think ghostrider888 is playing the ‘joker god’ – it’s a very fine tradition of spiritual pranksterism, quite well-suited to today’s entertainment-beguiled world. And it’s very serious stuff.

                      S/he is also very good at it.

                    • McFlock

                      Don’t know much about that. After reading philosophy for a few years with extremely variable knowledge transfer, I threw up my hands and adopted the Decent Fellow philosophy: if I’m a decent fellow or near enough, and god/karma/the universe is decent or near enough, sweet. If g/k/tu is a bit of a “my way or the highway” dick that plays hard to get, then there’s nothing I can do about that, since I cannot know which precise flavour of religion or philosophy is the correct one. If they exist at all.

                      And out of that flows a lack of expectation, shit is what it is, just relax and roll with it. If you’re rolling along and see a nice place to be that you can roll to, do that. But if you miss it, fair enough, wait for the next on to come along.

                    • ghostrider888

                      a bit of rogue one might say Puddleglum; thank you for the affirmation in what can be a heartless world at times.

    • joe90 6.3

      I’ll assume that the figures for child abuse have trended down since this law came to pass..

      Anecdotally greater awareness was the reason notifications trended upwards following the repeal of s59 with a resulting increase in substantiated abuse.

  6. vto 7

    I would like to suggest a new weekly game called “Count John Key’s Lies.”

    It would make great entertainment as we all try to spot the snake eyes when he realises he has to lie, then when he actually lies, and again when he has to jump up and down and all around to explain the things that don’t add up around the lie. The snake eyes have it – it’s all there in open glory for lie-spotters to go crazy over.

    John Key: “The lying Prime Minister”

    • AsleepWhileWalking 7.1

      +1 Great idea! We could take screen shots of his facial expressions and the SIS could use them to train their operatives to spot deceptive behavior.

    • tc 7.2

      We live in a cartoon republic under the NACT, 2 simpsons scenes spring to mind.

      1 where sideshow bob states he was elected because poeple secertly yearn to elect someone who lowers taxes, brutalises the poor and rules like a king.

      2 where Mayor Quimby tells the crowd they’re pigs to which they say ‘yeah give us hell ‘.

  7. prism 8

    There may be helpful information to farmers suffering dry up of pasture in this NZ Grasslands piece.
    NZ Grassland Association
    14 March 2013
    Planning, pasture management and recovery after drought, pasture renovation decisions

    • Draco T Bastard 8.1


    • bad12 8.2

      If what’s been falling on Wellington since last night is also falling on the pastures with a soil moisture deficit in places further north it’ll fix what ails the farmers, (can’t have them sitting round on the dole for too long they might become work shy and welfare dependent),

      Steady and soft this rain will not run off into the waterways the thirsty soil will soak it up and the grass will grow,

      Wont help Wellingtons acute shortage of water, but that’s down to one of the big dams at Te Marua being out of action for earthquake strengthening as much as it is drought conditions…

      • Rosie 8.2.1

        Also hope those over the hill in South Wairarapa also have received this soft rain. It was quite handy receiving such a gentle almost continuous drizzley shower from around 2pm yesterday, steady soft falls throughout the night and what looks to be more substantial rain today

        The ground around here has soaked up the rain nicely, theres no pooling of water and most importantly it hasn’t gone straight into the stormwater drains, which it would have done, had we just had heavy falls straight away.

        Haven’t ever seen a metservice forecast refer to the day ahead as gloomy though. If this is gloom then lets embrace it and rejoice

      • ghostrider888 8.2.2

        ( 🙂 )

        • Rosie

          Is that you Roguey? Have you reincarnated?

          • ghostrider888

            “Like a bat out of hell into darkness. Knowing what I’ve known all along: That it is God who creates our tragedies. But it is the Devil who makes us care. When I finally escaped Hell, I brought the Devil with me. It just doesn’t get anymore (right) than that.”

  8. Draco T Bastard 9

    Facts don’t support expressway

    This was the highest proportion of all the main centres in Wellington. It means the Kapiti transport network doesn’t need to carry large numbers of people into Wellington for work. There is no new information available to suggest this has changed.

    Put simply, there is no evidence to back up the constant messages that a four-lane expressway is needed for the future.

    This is not to deny that some improvement will be necessary. The question is whether a high speed four-lane expressway is what is needed, or will even be helpful.

    My own research has found that even NZTA officers believed the best option for such a road through Kapiti was along the existing SH1 and railway corridor. This was in line with NZTA’s own urban design panel review of the options, a review that was discounted by the board of inquiry.

    So, why is it that our government seems determined to build these over-priced boondoggles?

    Oh, wait.

    • bad12 9.1

      Yes you are right, the facts do not support the ‘more motorways philosophy’, the facts would tend to suggest that in a situation of little overall rises in traffic from Kapiti to Wellington 3 billion dollars of new motorway is a ridiculous expense,

      When the carparking at the Paraparaumu rail station was extended, effectively doubling it’s size it was full within a week effectively taking off the road system 100 more vehicles a day,

      For a 10th of the 3 billion dollars of the Transmission gully white elephant which will serve to create grid lock at the Ngaraunga interchange at peak times park’n’ride could be extended along the Kapiti rail line by the erection of parking buildings at Waikanae,Paraparaumu,Mana,Paremata,Porirua and Tawa thus removing from the road system 1000s of vehicles a day,

      All of the park’n’ride facilities at all of those rail stations are at present full to capacity every day…

      • Draco T Bastard 9.1.1

        I cringe when people try to tell me how great park and ride is. It has it’s place but the option that needs to be put in place is to have buses doing short loops feeding into the rail station. It would remove most of the cars from the road – if the rail service could cope with it but that would just mean more planning and double tracking.

        • bad12

          Yup the ‘thinking’ around that is cars off the roads full stop, which does not actually occur for a number of reasons, one of the main ones being that people cannot be arsed walking to the bus stop in the rain and then walking home from the bus stop in the rain after 8 or 10 hours pushing the heavy wheel of capitalism, plus much of what you call ‘short loops’ to the rail aint in any way ‘short’ which simply encourages the use of cars,

          In Wellington both the Kapiti rail line and the Hutt Valley rail line are double tracked, all the available car parking at all of the stations along these rail lines are full on every working day and the provision of parking buildings which connect directly to the rail stations on the lines would take 1000’s of vehicles a day off the motorway system…

          • Draco T Bastard

            the provision of parking buildings which connect directly to the rail stations on the lines would take 1000′s of vehicles a day off the motorway system…

            While tying up more land and resources in cars.

            It’s this misunderstanding of resources that means that people fail to understand the economy. All they see is the money and all the politicians and economist talk about is the money – completely ignoring the economy.

            plus much of what you call ‘short loops’ to the rail aint in any way ‘short’ which simply encourages the use of cars,

            I’m thinking no longer than ten minutes and probably free.

            • bad12

              Putting aside for the moment your ‘idealized economy’ which you make up in your head for any given situation i wont even ask you who then will pay for the ‘free ride’,

              And for those who live more than a 10 minute bus ride for a rail station???…

        • Rosie

          Hear what you saying re putting on buses to do short loops feeding into the rail station as an alternate option to park and rides. We do have bus connections in those flatter more outlying suburbs where the buses can negotiate the streets easily but as the train heads further south towards the city you get into the steep hill suburbs. Some of these streets are only one car width in places, have blind corners and corners that a bus can’t actually get around. (Some steets however might be able to accomodate those little mini buses?) Maybe the idea in those areas is for neighbourhood residents to organise car pooling to the park and ride at the station. I’ve heard of folks that do this but I don’t know if its its a formal initiative.

          Double tracking on the Kapiti line was completed in 2011

          Save Kapiti put up one helluva fight against the expressway but well, the govt was hell bent on fulfilling their roading campaign……………….

          • Rosie

            PS: Save Kapiti is


          • bad12

            Sounds like something along the lines of what i believe Wellington City should attempt in conjunction with it’s proposed ‘bus hubs’,

            Such a system would work far better if at peak times a number of passenger vans where circulating the various suburbs picking people up and dropping them at these bus hubs,

            The thinking there is commuters could be picked up from their gate by waving at the drivers and dropped at the bus hubs with the cost included in the actual bus fare…

            • Rosie

              I’m with ya there bad12. Peak time mini buses, pick up at gate. Would work really well on J’ville line too at Churton Park, Ngaio and Khandallah, especially on steep eastern hill side of the tracks.
              Redwood and Tawa would benefit from such a system on the Kapiti line.
              Re your walk home from the station after long work day point above: I’ve noted buses around here are chocka during summer but almost empty in winter. Its an example of folks wanting to use public transport but having their limits. Lucky me, bus stop right outside!

            • Draco T Bastard

              So you whinge about my idea and then put forward the exactly the same idea?

              • bad12

                Lolz whinge, ha ha, who’s a little sensitive today???, in point the point i make about park and ride for the Kapiti and Hutt rail corridors i am addressing the need for parking at rail stations,

                In the point i am making about about the proposed Wellington City bus hubs i am talking about Wellington City suburban commuters, as different as chalk and cheese…

                • Draco T Bastard

                  Lolz whinge, ha ha, who’s a little sensitive today???

                  You are. You really don’t like being questioned about the stuff you put forward as the saviour of man only to have it pointed out to you that it probably isn’t. I’ve noticed this before.

                  in point the point i make about park and ride for the Kapiti and Hutt rail corridors i am addressing the need for parking at rail stations,

                  And I was pointing out that buses running short routes in conjunction with the parking spaces would be a better option.

                  In the point i am making about about the proposed Wellington City bus hubs i am talking about Wellington City suburban commuters, as different as chalk and cheese…

                  So different that it’s exactly the same concept that I put forward. Buses (a van carrying passengers is a bus) running running short loops to a central location.

  9. felixviper 10

    I’m polling the Magic 8-Ball this morning. Ask it politics-related poll questions here and I’ll post the results.


    • AsleepWhileWalking 10.1

      Will the Novopay system manage to fire all the people that should have been held to account for it’s implementation in the first place despite them not actually being on the payroll?

  10. felixviper 11

    More poll questions plox

  11. felixviper 12

    The Magic 8-Ball poll has a margin of error of 0%. Unlike other polls, the non-responses and don’t-knows are factored in to give a far more accurate snapshot of the electorate.

  12. Skinny 13

    Another bad result of job cuts, Key will be comfortable with that no doubt !

  13. Morrissey 14

    “Minecraft chat-rooms are full of inane CRAP!”
    Another irony-free edition of The Panel

    Radio New Zealand National, Monday 11 March 2013
    Jim Mora, Charlotte Graham, Nevil “Breivik” Gibson, Chris Wikaira

    JIM MORA: Okay it’s quarter to four, and Charlotte Graham is here, with what the wo-o-o-o-o-o-orld’s talking about! What have you got for us today?

    CHARLOTTE GRAHAM: Well, first up is this story about a mobile phone that costs just one pound.

    MORA: One pound?

    CHARLOTTE GRAHAM: [betraying slight irritation] Yes.

    MORA: Mmmm-kay. What else?

    CHARLOTTE GRAHAM: Well there’s this curious story of an e-mail bug—

    MORA: One of the dubious legacies of Hugo Chávez!

    CHARLOTTE GRAHAM: Yes, e-mails are circulating with bugs in them.

    MORA: And he’s being embalmed, is he?

    CHARLOTTE GRAHAM: Yes, he’ll get the full Lenin treatment and will be embalmed for decades, which is delightful!

    MORA: [suddenly thoughtful, serious] Who is embalmed? Eva Perón?

    NEVIL “BREIVIK” GIBSON: Stalin. And the Kims are pretty good at it.

    CHARLOTTE GRAHAM: Mummification, which in the case of is a terrifying thought! [chuckles]

    MORA: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Indeed! Ha ha ha ha ha ha! Okay, anything else?

    CHARLOTTE GRAHAM: Yes, this one is about Kate Middleton. She’s been criticized for having no opinions..

    MORA: Is there still a place for the smiling royal bride, do you think, Nevil Gibson?

    BREIVIK GIBSON: Ooooh yeah.

    MORA: Well, there’s certainly a lot of opinions going to be expressed on The Panel today! Back after the news!

    ………4 o’clock News……….

    MORA: Okay, on The Panel today are Nevil Gibson and Chris Wikaira. Nevil Gibson, you love the movies don’t you!

    BREIVIK GIBSON: I do, and I’ve been watching all the movies that were nominated for the Academy Awards.

    MORA: Which one was your favorite?

    BREIVIK GIBSON: I thought Zero Dark Thirty was the best film of the year. Although it suffered a bit of a backlash.

    MORA: It did a bit!

    BREIVIK GIBSON: Though Argo was a good popular film.

    MORA: But it got its facts wrong didn’t it.

    BREIVIK GIBSON: It did. It was hard for Ben Affleck to get everything right.

    MORA: Okay. Do you think John Key should have gone to the funeral of Hugo Chávez? [snickers nervously]

    BREIVIK GIBSON: Oooooh, I think there are two groups in South America. We are NOT in that one!

    MORA: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Okay, onto the Novopay debacle. You two have both got excellent political antennae. Any thoughts on this?

    BREIVIK GIBSON: Maybe they should have stuck with the bulk-funding.

    MORA: Ha ha ha ha ha ha!

    CHRIS WIKAIRA: Ha ha ha ha ha!

    BREIVIK GIBSON: Which was abolished by the Labour government.

    MORA: Ha ha ha ha ha! Thank you Nevil Gibson! All right, next up is an allegedly racist speech by Bill Rayner of Grey Power. What do you think? Should we be able to TALK about these issues?

    WIKAIRA: Of COURSE we should be able to talk about it! Kapai, Bill!

    MORA: Can we have an open conversation without the “racist” epithet being flung around? Okay, Bill Rayner joins us now.

    BILL RAYNER: Good afternoon, Jim and good afternoon to the Panelists.

    MORA: Okay, so you’re talking about assimilatible integration, yeah? Are you the same as Tariana Turia?

    BILL RAYNER: Yes. Pakeha New Zealanders are discriminated against in their own country. Dual passports are unavailable to traditional New Zealand people.

    MORA: You say the old people are finding it hard to cope. Why?

    BILL RAYNER: Once again it’s cultural linkage. The council is canceling the lease of the Takapuna Croquet Club to build a four-story block of flats.

    MORA: But, but surely—-

    BILL RAYNER: I’m the least racist person in New Zealand. I’m part-Maori myself. It’s difficult when you’re accused of being racist.

    MORA: I’ve gotta go, Bill. Time for the news.

    …….4:30 News and Weather……..

    MORA: Okay, it’s time to hear what our Panelists have been THINKING ABOUT. Chris Wikaira, what’s on your mind?

    WIKAIRA: I’m concerned about the intellectual standard of Minecraft discussions on the YouTube bulletin boards.

    MORA: Really?

    WIKAIRA: Have either of you ever read the Minecraft discussion boards?

    MORA: No I don’t think I have!

    BREIVIK GIBSON: [with disdainful gravitas] N-n-no.

    WIKAIRA: Well, I have, and I assure you, it is inane C-R-R-R-RAP! [An uninteresting ramble follows for several minutes.]

    MORA: Mmmm-kay. [awkward silence] Nevil Gibson, anything on YOUR mind?

    BREIVIK GIBSON: Yes, I am concerned about the shops not being open on Queen Street on Sundays. …..

    et cetera, ad infinitum, ad tedium….

    • Bill 14.1

      Chavez ain’t being embalmed. Just sayin’.

      • Morrissey 14.1.1

        No, but it made no difference to those three fools.

        • fender

          Enjoy your ‘Panel’ reviews Morrissey.

          Don’t forget to highlight the nasty, mean spirited decriptions of the youth of NZ made by that ex-cop ‘Police 10/7’ host Mora fawns over, please.

      • Chris 14.1.2

        Could be a mistake in the write-up above but assuming this was actually from last Monday then at that point the plan was for him to be embalmed. They have come out since then to say that they won’t as the process would involve the body being sent to Russia for 7-8 months.

        If this was from today then yes they should have known better.

        • Morrissey

          No, Chris, there was no mistake in my transcription. But as you say, the programme was broadcast last Monday, so they were all quite justified in their belief that he was going to be embalmed.

  14. ghostrider888 15

    felix is one of the funniest commentors around this joint!

    so, the new Novopay Nightmare; teachers lined up for termination by the machine, April 21st, no fooling; 111 staff in one overnight sampling

    Drought; 2B (30% off annual growth predicted) ; Dairy sector provide 25% of income; how’s that for diversification, or desertification…

    Snapper numbers suffer as their environment is under continuing threat, oh wait, from run-off sediment and pollution; sea grasses destroyed, eg. Kaipara Harbour and three other coastal catchments already.

    Long-fin eels at risk and declining, yet commercially caught; MPI deny any decline happening.

    A quick skim of an economic commentary in a week-end paper
    -share-market up
    -property market up

    -Exports likely to come off on China and Aus slowdowns
    -Interest rate rises predicted
    -Banks likely to come under pressure

    Haven’t we been here before? tastes like poission .

    In ChCh, if left too long, barren red-zone areas will be recovered in exotic weeds re-establishing; gorse and broom for example

    from the Met Service; the further anticipated rain is unlikely to break drought.

    Hey Jude…”these men are blemishes at your feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm- shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and up rooted- twice dead. They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars for whom the blackest darkness has been reserved forever. 12. na
    na na nana na na…Hey Jude…

    14:2 He whose walk is upright fears the Lord, but he whose ways are devious despises him.

    Francis 1 sure is a hard act to follow.

    now, back to a daily telegraph cucumber sandwich.

  15. 1080 is a shit issue for sure – the possums have to go and the approved way is to poison. I can’t stand the fact that we are keeping that poison factory open in the US just for us and it just seems Kali Yuga-ish to save the environment by poisoning – yet the Northern Rata were so great this year, so beautiful and magnificent. This report disturbs me because of the statement from DOC that

    But DOC spokesperson Rory Newsam said there had been a 1080 poison drop planned for months.

    “There is a planned 1080 drop on Moehau, up on the Coromandel, but that’s been on the cards for a long time,” he said.

    “That’s well-documented. We also don’t know if 1080 has any impact on the frogs.”

    umm who cares if it is planned and what has that to do with anything – oh – costs etc

    The impact on our endemic species of frogs isn’t known? I find this hard to believe – haven’t they sussed that out even a little?

    Friends of the Earth New Zealand Director Tucker said in Hunua’s 1993 1080 drop, 50 per cent of the Hochstetter’s frogs disappeared from the main monitoring site.

    Our frogs are so unique with no voice-box and no tadpole stage – we must save and protect them and we must ensure that what we are doing to save other species doesn’t adversely affect them – it is the minimum requirement imo.

    • joe90 16.1

      Marty, I think the 1080 used is made by an SOE in Whanganui.

      • marty mars 16.1.1

        Thanks joe – I wonder what I was thinking about – got my wires a bit crossed – do you know mate?

      • joe90 16.1.2

        Marty, I’m of the opinion that the poisoning the regimes have been effective in all but eradicating bovine TB in my area and over many years I’ve noticed the decline in the number of dead trees in the Ruahine forest park canopy.

        And although I’d dearly love to see the implementation of a more robust strategy to mitigate the effects on native fauna we’re in a catch twenty two situation, poisoning and risk losing species or not to poison and guarantee extinctions.

        So I can’t really fault DOC for doing what they’re doing but I would like to take to task the arsewipes who’ve diverted funds from programmes looking at ways to mitigate by-kills into funding the eradication of diseases of production, bovine TB.

        • marty mars

          Fair enough joe as I mentioned I’m slightly conflicted about the debate. Tull Chemicals in Alabama manufactures 1080 I believe and two factories in NZ mix the poison and manufacture the bait – that was the bit I was trying to clarify. As to “not to poison and guarantee extinctions” not sure what species you are talking about there – obviously not the cows. The guarantee is more likely with these frogs I would say but I’m happy to read some links from you about that.

          and yes the by-kills are a problem thus my post.

        • joe90

          Yes, the frogs and their like Marty.
          My beef is that like everything else this mob does there’s been a nod and a wink to concentrate on poisoning programmes that have a cost benefit because to the tory mind funding a frog no matter how significant it is has no demonstrable cost benefit.

  16. ianmac 17

    The positive outcome for Mr Joyce re Novopay, will be to abolish Novopay and instead start Bulk Funding for every school. Each School will have its own payroll system to make its own errors.
    Problem solved.
    A long term National aim achieve.
    Mr Joyce is a hero!

    • fender 17.1

      If he gets the 100 million back (or 100 million worth of Sydney property) then we could call him a ‘hero’ for a day or two anyway.

  17. ghostrider888 18

    nailing Rodel;
    according to neuro-scientists, the number of possible thoughts a brain could possibly have is- wait for it-
    10 to the power of 70 000 000 000 000 (calculated on the number of neural configurations possible)

    (apparently there are only 10 to the power of 80 atoms in the entire universe. hmmm)

    anyway, 99.9999999999999 %of the world experienced is empty space (a great proportion of it in conservative / tory / racist / bigot intellectual worldviews possibly).

    -The Mystery Experience by Tim Freke
    (look deeper) don’t ya just love being free!


    Explaining to Auckland Councillors at the Performance and Accountability Committee,
    (13 March 2013) how Occupy Auckland won the Appeal; asking how much ratepayer monies had been WASTED on legal proceedings; and asking for a review of the performance of Auckland Council’s General Counsel, for ‘fitness for duty’ (and more….



    Penny Bright’
    Occupy Auckland Appellant (in my own name)

    2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate

  19. Draco T Bastard 20

    RSA Animate – The Paradox of Choice
    About how choice is bounded by social norms and how having more choice results in less social change.

    Go to max resolution and watch it in full screen mode.

  20. joe90 21

    Again, ordinary people wear the cost while those with the most dodge their obligations.

      • David C 22.1.1

        So it has to be over $50,000 or it dont need to be declared.

        How do you forget $50,000 in a personal bank account? FFS !

        Did he “forget” to declare the intrest to IRD too?

      • Draco T Bastard 22.1.2

        Quoting 3 news article:

        The New York-based Chase cash account, which was used to collect Mr Shearer’s United Nations salary…

        Must be nice to be able to forget your salary.

    • One Tāne Huna 22.2


      Nice one caucus. Good choice, well done.


    • Socialist Paddy 22.3

      Jesus Mary and Fucking Joseph.

      I presume that Shearer forgot that he had the account and was not hiding it.

      But what leader of the left, the poor and dispossessed, the unemployed and the working class would forget that he had $50,000 dollars in an overseas bank account.

      His stupidity and his indifference are mind boggling.

      I bet that Hone Harawira knows exactly how much are in his accounts.

      • marty mars 22.3.1

        maybe he forgot maybe he didn’t – either way he is a disgrace and no leader of the left, just a keylite – maybe this will wake up tribal labourites but probably not.

        • Herodotus

          The goes buying power shares with the money that doesn’t exist. being leader on NZL doesn’t pay a living wage.
          So key forgets a few nz rail shares and shearer forgets his primary schools post office account.

      • Inverness 22.3.2

        Who said he had $50k in his account?

        he has to declare the account if it has $50k or more , im hearing its considerably more than $50k and Shearer should have dealt with accountants to manage his forgotten mill.. i mean who dont ill treat their junior account clerks.

        more to come , lots more

  21. Anne 24

    Talking of responses:

    What was the outcome to the New Lynn LEC’s formal complaint to the Labour Council over the treatment meted out to David Cunliffe last year? Has there even been an outcome or has the Labour hierarchy chosen to ignore it?

  22. ghostrider888 26

    from the Dom;
    The Price of Milk may rise 20% and reach / exceed record highs; poss. $5.75 / 2l. Wow.
    (and meat) but don’t worry, a BNZ economist suggests we won’t tip into recession because there is an upturn in retail spending and household borrowing…sigh

    Wellington water betrayals? car washes and golf courses.Yep.

    Turia submits an OIA request into high executive assistant staff turn-over under Parata; several private secretaries and a senior advisor for starters; “worrying reports of internal tensions” (could not make these piranha analogies up)

    from First Union-Employers exploiting migrant workers
    -weak penalties
    -lack of enforcement
    -chronic lack of factory inspectors.

    Knife Crime : 8 fatal stabbings this year, already = “high” -Ian Lambie; Assoc. Proff, Clin. Psych.
    and member of the Ministry of Justice Independent Group on Youth Offending. (Collins says “greater priorities to deal with” )

  23. Morrissey 27

    The selective outrage of “liberals”
    Sounding off about the boogie-man Mugabe?

    The Panel, Monday 18 March 2013
    Jim Mora, Penny Ashton, Steve McCabe

    JIM MORA: Pope Francis seems to be an interesting thoughts about the need for social justice.

    PENNY ASHTON: I just can’t believe that ROBERT MUGABE will be going! I didn’t even know he was a Catholic! He certainly doesn’t believe in “Thou shalt not kill.”

    One of my pet hates is ignorant people. Another one is hypocritical people. The ignorant and hypocritical Penny Ashton is the epitome of both. I simply had to dash off the following e-mail….

    Dear Jim,

    Another Catholic who will probably going to the Papal investiture is Tony Blair. He also obviously doesn’t believe in “Thou shalt not kill”. Why is Penny Ashton focusing on Robert Mugabe? Compared to Blair, Robert Mugabe is Albert Schweitzer.

    Yours sincerely,

    Morrissey Breen
    Northcote Point

    So far, no reply….

    • North 27.1

      You won’t get a reply Morrissey.

      His Affable Smugness doesn’t know there’s a world beyond his few hours of an afternoon. And his panel of in the the main ignorant, unartful, prejudiced, up-themselves, F-list celebs.

      In order, those whom I exclude from the above category – Gary McCormick 100%, Edwards 75%, The Boagy Lady 50%.

      Julia Hartley-Moore, noted curtain peeper, private dick, and monumentally ignorant know-all – minus 1,000,000 %. She personifies all that is horrific about “The Panel”.

      Bugger me……just heard RNZ News making it a headline that Dunny-Brush’s pig of a carpark tax is a “pragmatic” move. Never a pig from the start. Pragmatic.

      • Morrissey 27.1.1

        Julia Hartley-Moore, noted curtain peeper, private dick, and monumentally ignorant know-all – minus 1,000,000 %. She personifies all that is horrific about “The Panel”.

        I agree that she’s pretty repellent but there are actually many worse regulars than JHM on The Panel. Off the top of my head, here are just a few of the worst….

        JOHN BARNETT When he’s not being an obnoxious bully in his position as chief union-basher in the New Zealand film industry, he comes on The Panel to share his loopy blue-sky projects for the future of public television: put cameras in the National Radio studios and just broadcast it as is. And he was being serious; the poor fellow doesn’t have a humorous bone in his body.

        DR. MICHAEL BASSETT One day on the show this fellow said, barefacedly, that Nicky Hager was a Holocaust-denier. Host Jim Mora said….NOTHING. To be fair, Mora probably thought he was imagining things or that Bassett had suffered a brain explosion.

        GRAHAM BELL Domineering ex-cop, with a forced, sinister laugh. Not accustomed to being contradicted; was palpably angry when Gordon Campbell challenged and humiliated him after he (Bell) had indulged in a swingeing rant against climate scientists.

        JOHN BISHOP The very incarnation of pomposity and self-importance. Perhaps his nadir was reached when he indulged in a ranting, ignorant denunciation of Robert Fisk. Joining him in the attempted hatchet-job was….John Barnett.

        JOANNE BLACK Smugness, thy name is that woman!

        BARRY CORBETT Back in February 2009, Corbett made the extraordinarily disgusting statement that the teenage victim of a murder in Auckland was asking for it and that he (Corbett) sympathized with the boy’s killer. Later on the same day he had endorsed the killing, he was due to be a guest on The Panel. He wasn’t banned, or even suspended. In fact he laughed loudly and vacuously as always, as if nothing had happened. He never mentioned the boy, and certainly never apologized.

        JEREMY ELWOOD AKA Gloomy Gus, AKA Elwood Blues. Apparently likes to say he is a liberal and a left winger, but there have been few guests on the Panel as anxious to roll over and agree with every single word uttered by Graham Bell. Spinelessness, thy name is ELWOOD!

        IRENE GARDINER On the day that Tony Veitch was revealed to have knocked a woman to the ground, then kicked her in the spine till he paralyzed her, Irene Gardiner actually said this: “The media are putting the boot into Tony when he’s down.”

        GARTH “GAGA” GEORGE No statement is too dishonest or too insane for this bloke to utter. When Dr Michael Bassett tells lies, we know his behaviour stems from pure flinty-hearted malice; with Gaga George, it seems he almost believes his own nonsense.

        RICHARD GRIFFIN A few years ago, the Silver Fox casually made a dismissive, ignorant remark about Venezuelan president Hugo Chávez. Unluckily for the Fox, however, the other guest that day was …. (you guessed it!)…. Gordon Campbell, who is not in the habit of letting lazy bigots get away with lazy bigoted comments. A swift challenge from Campbell led to the quickest back-down and apology in the history of broadcast radio.

        NEIL MILLER Bad enough that he’s a beer bore, but what’s unforgivable about this bloke is his ineffable smugness. Underneath that superficial bonhomie, he’s actually a nasty piece of work.

        SIMON POUND Mealy-mouthedness, thy name is this fellow!

        CHRISTINE (SPANKIN’) RANKIN Most people already suspected she was insane, after witnessing her (unintentionally hilarious) shenanigans during the protracted, mortifyingly embarrassing forced removal from her position as the worst CEO that WINZ or any other government department had ever suffered. Anyone who has heard her on The Panel will be convinced of it.

        ….et cetera, ad nauseum, ad absurdum….

        The list could be much, much longer. When you assess it honestly, you have to come to the inescapable conclusion: The Panel is a horror show.

    • Paul 27.2

      Thanks Morrissey your comments are borer Morer are needed.
      I actually think he does more damage to progressive ideas than most of the RWNJs on ZB.

  24. bad12 28

    Lolz who would have thunk it, the carpark tax will not be implemented as Slippery has put Revenue Minister ‘the Hairdo from Ohariu’ Peter Dunne firmly in His place of being the female dog of the National Government Caucus,

    Petey tho knows how to use Slippery speak to back down from a National-vote losing tax piling it on in an interview with RadioNZ National a few minutes back…

    • North 28.1

      Yeah, Dunny-Brush testily assuming a false gravitas and saying it was a “pragmatic” move.

      Oh Yay – is that cue for “You may admire me now……” ?

      Pragmatic ? No, a move made for the reasons he gave: cost of implementation and enforcement, small return and a few others. Not worth the shit of it.

      In other words it was a pig from the start. A pig created by Dunny-Brush. A pig from a dog.
      I wonder how much money went into that futile little adventure.

      • halfcrown 28.1.1

        I saw that pile of excrement on Prime News, not so cock sure of himself like he was in supporting the asset sales Arseole. The reason why Shokey backed down, was it was not the flavour of the month for his fat cat mates. That’s the only reason why it was rejected.
        One other “news item”was about the president of Cyprus telling the Cypriots, Brussells stealing their savings was “best” for the country, I wonder what Swiss Bank Account he is hiding his wealth in.

        Lastly, real tragic event. That female who married “what’s” his name got the heel of her shoe stuck in a grate. Great drama the world as we know it nearly ended.

  25. North 29

    Morrisey, can you help me ?

    Between 4.50 and 5.00 pm on Aftenoons With Borer Mora today 18 March. Some character name of Philip McAllister, the usual last 10 minutes phone-in oracle. Missed what his particular field of expertise is but think it’s investment advice.

    Extolling the virtues of house property investment and pushing the notion that there’s no real problem about getting on the housing property ladder and then advancing to further investment in rental properties. No real problem that getting off your bum and being financially literate won’t fix.

    Borer and the other panelists seemed happy with this guy’s authority for what he said which went more or less like this – “we’re seeing lots of people coming in to invest in property……..lots of people”.

    Lots of people, lots of people……..? Not a bloody word about poverty. Obviously a wanker who doesn’t even see the existence of lots and lots and lots and lots of people in this country living in poverty or near to.

    Why the fuck is RNZ paying for five days a week of Borer’s wank-and-chuckle-fest ?

    • Morrissey 29.1

      Sorry, North, I actually missed the second half of today’s show. Had to go out. Your summary sounds about right, though: just what I would have expected.

  26. ghostrider888 30

    Oh Look
    no don’t, you’re not allowed
    and you are certainly not allowed to play at drones by your own rules
    “irony” indeed
    burning along the new Silk Road

    oh well, gotta – and serve some hungry folk and their children now. Pray for rain, gonna need it.

    • Draco T Bastard 30.1

      Quoting second article:

      That jump in use of armed drones resulted from the authorization to use “signature” strikes, which allowed targeting terrorism suspects based on behavior and other characteristics without knowing their actual identity, a U.S. official said on condition of anonymity.

      So, act like what a USian thinks looks a terrorist acts like and get killed? Oh, goody.

      “Getting agreement on the applicability of existing humanitarian law to the new technologies is crucial,” he said, because China and Russia do not endorse applying laws of armed conflict to new military technologies.

      Haven’t seen the US doing anything like that either.

  27. Colonial Viper 31

    Steve Keen’s “Minsky” Kickstarter project crosses the line at US$78,000

    Thank you to every one from The Standard who contributed to this success, I know that there were a fair few of you. If we are ever to accomplish our dreams for NZ’s future then it’s not just our politics which require reformation, it’s also (especially?) our economics.

    • Draco T Bastard 31.1

      Especially the economics needs to change as the theory being used is just wrong</a but, even worse, at the moment they're being used to drive the politics.

      • Draco T Bastard 31.1.1

        My Kingdom for an edit function.

        • lprent

          It is getting there. You’ll have the trash function first as that works now. That was a pain to debug because of all of the cases that the old one did not. For instance it won’t allow you to trash a comment that has a reply attached (you have to edit it). If a reply is made to comment that has been trashed then it won’t let you save it. etc etc

          Just moved the reply to the right (which is where it should have been in the first place) so I could layout the action controls to its left.

  28. hush minx 32

    Spotted the latest Roy Morgan, which continues its bouncing-labour up two, nats down four:

    But it made me think, what would Winston want as king maker? I r remember 1996 (unfortunately), when I was convinced href go with Labour. Six weeks of negotiations later he signed with National. Price was a suite of policies they could ask live with. So what would national compromise on this time around? How would labour manage dealing with the greens and nz first on the policy compromise front? Answer-get a lead where you don’t need nz first!

    [lprent: adding charts – click on them for full display ]

    • Colonial Viper 32.1

      No rush, just give the Red Team and their Leader another 6 months to get settled in bro

    • bad12 32.2

      Lolz,our Roy is a swinging pollster isn’t He, that GCR or F thingy has taken a dive as well, it’s the sort of poll that seems to have a right leaning ‘ah oh if Shearer cant win in 2014 then Cunliffe is going to in 2017’ ring about it…

    • Draco T Bastard 32.3

      I r remember 1996 (unfortunately), when I was convinced href go with Labour.

      Everybody was and everybody was shocked and disappointed that he went with National. Although, I don’t think anyone was surprised when the agreement collapsed.

      • McFlock 32.3.1

        Definite shock and surprise. Although I think the key determinant of the collapse was that shipley wasn’t up to the job.

        As to the poll, only the chicken littles thought the 4% drop was indicative of an actual shift.

  29. geoff 33

    Great to hear Mike Williams express his sympathy for Steven Joyce re: Novopay on nine to noon today.


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