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6:00 am, March 19th, 2023 - 77 comments
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One has to admire Novara's ability to find clever, thoughtful people as commentators. Here Shon Faye (a transwoman) does a take on the word "woke". She says that woke was never meant to be a "substantive concept", instead it is a deliberate "ellipsis" a "vacuum" into which you can pour or project anything. The resulting contradictions do not matter to the people using or hearing it – because it serves the purpose of appealing to emotions. She says the nearest parallel would be word "zeitgeist" as used by fascists (to convey horror, fear and disgust).
There is of course a left use of the word "woke" – which criticises the liberal tendency to prioritise identity over class. It might be a good idea to find a substitute word for this phenomenon – given the contamination of "woke" by the right.
A watchword from 30's 'Murica.
Fourscore and three years ago, Huddie “Lead Belly” Ledbetter—a self-titled “musicianer” who was heralded as a “Bad Nigger” who “makes good minstrel” by Life magazine—explained how he came to create one of the first racism* carols. Named after nine young Black men who had been falsely accused of raping two white women, “Scottsboro Boys” was a protest and a warning to Black people about the evil that awaited anyone who dared traverse the borders of Alabama. At the end of the song, he told the story of meeting two of the wrongly convicted men and—just before the recording faded into silence—the legendary singer coined a phrase that would become a clarion call to Black America until white people discovered it eight decades later.
“I advise everybody to be a little careful when they go down through there,” Lead Belly said of Alabama. “Just stay woke. Keep your eyes open.”
https://www.theroot.com/weaponizing-woke-an-brief-history-of-white-definitions-1848031729
Leadbelly using that word with the only meaning it has, that I will recognise.
Sure, a different way of seeing the world (being woke, after the dream about how a democratic people could remake the world to how it could be), than that of an existing conservative order, was seen as threatening to those loyal to it.
In the 1930's German Weimar Republic liberalism and various groups (Christian) conservative and fascist were (zeitgeist) moral reactionary forces in resistance. The idea of empowered (democratic) humanity with social economic and political equality in citizenship, was against the concept of some divine moral or conservative regime national order that humanity had to be (remain) in obedience to.
Some have since categorised it as idealism vs world reality when rejecting gender identity.
And since then some communitarian anarchists (such as Russell Brand) have aligned with libertarians against modern nation state government (basically joined the Tea Party movement).
Their language is based on the title of a book
‘Why England Slept” by JFK about the slowness of England to respond to the threat posed by fascist Germany (one about the USA would have been too controversial) and of course his speech in Berlin about resistance to communism.
PS And for black Americans
There was an excellent Opinion piece on the Guardian a couple of days back on this very topic
The right’s co-opting of the word “woke” and the way it uses it to distort debate and camouflage bigotry is nothing new. Conservatives have always been very good at wringing words dry of their meaning and repurposing them strategically. “The elite”, for example, now means anyone with an education and not billionaires like Donald Trump. “Pro-life” means forcing women to give birth. Teaching kids about slavery has been rebranded as “critical race theory”. Far too often liberals don’t push back on these phrases and start using them themselves. Gray’s interaction with Mandel shows that simply asking conservatives to be clear about what on earth they’re talking about can be surprisingly effective.
Just to get you started!
"No objective evidence exists that “gender identity” exists outside of a person’s mind. Transition “medicine” relies on self-reported feelings for diagnosis and satisfaction with appearance for measuring results. Ka-ching, profit!
“Gender identity” does not even have something like the E-meter that can pretend to detect or measure it. As a practical matter, there is more actual science for the ‘body thetans’ of L. Ron Hubbard than for ‘gender identity’ as a coherent material phenomenon."
https://www.thedistancemag.com/p/10000000-challenge-build-a-machine?fbclid=IwAR0ZRAhaJ_YLhRGhJGkDb2IPCbf_FrynTZ6OvxccGABQ1dYVjIRd8w5fQUk
I never use the word 'woke' and I don't expect to see it in more serious discussion. If it had a meaning, it does not now and it is used as a pejorative now. I liken it to the phrase 'PC' when it was used in the 1990s.
I also don't think the left should be concerned only with class, that has always seemed inherently limiting, (shriek, shock, horror).
I don't really mind how issues are raised and I don't really care if an issue is raised from a liberal mindset. I am not about to criticise how it is raised if I agree that the issue raised has merit.
PC hid much anti women, pro racism 'stuff'. It was a shorthand for I don't want to modify anything I do even if it sexist or racist.
So issues based concerns have merit, we don't need to find some sort of shorthand pejorative to describe them. We certainly do not need to push concerns aside by saying they don't fit a class narrative.
Thinking deeply now about how the left is missing in action when talking about issues of genital males being in women's only spaces, rape crisis centres, counselling, lesbian places. How does fit a class narrative?
Jane Clare Jones is a good read for a left wing, feminist perspective on the three classes (sex, socioeconomic, race). When we treat sex as a class of oppression, we have an analysis for understanding women's rights as something that cannot be dismissed as identity politics.
Woke was originally a term used by Black Americans to describe political consciousness. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke
Thanks Weka. I was aware of how it started. Will brush up on class aspect.
I admit I have come at the left from a different starting point, from feminism, anti racism and equal opportunities for all, then a view of where on the political spectrum these are best progressed.
From there my analysis says that Govt has to lead, so legislation as a backstop at the very least. and with the need for legislation to be actively administered the cries of 'small govt' have no place.
I liked the concept Shon that woke is a kind of bucket into which all sorts of 'scary' things are placed. I also like the view that attacking the word/concept is difficult. How do you counter it? It is about as difficult as tackling the issues such as anti vaxx views. particularly the ones about magnets, world domination etc as opposed to concerns about health efficacy.
With PC Human Rights supporters found that a basis had to be in legislation.
Legislation is always either an backstop or an important step forward in progress. This is why, in my view, we need to maintain the Christchurch Call, work on Hate Speech etc. We need to work on multiple fronts and keep our legislation up to date and pointy.
It is also why on the left we are best to be explicit in framing the issues that the RW-ers are throwing into the 'woke' bucket. Finding another word to replace woke does not work for me.
Despicable cretins.
https://twitter.com/cscnme/status/1635655904568791040
https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkayeg/ivermectin-kids-autism
Blurred vision for two months? OMG. For autism OMG.
Poor kids.
You are aware that medical errors are considered the third leading category of death in the US? In the order of 250,000 in 2013 alone? Why do you not condemn this? Or call out all doctors "despicable cretins"?
Or that overdosing on commonplace OTC medicines happens far too often? We ingest stupid drugs like alcohol, and our diets are full of dangerous sugars and refined oils that cause a myriad of illnesses and shorten our lives. People do stupid things all the time.
And even with good intentions there is literally nothing good that someone will not take to an extreme and turn into something harmful as in this case. Yet Ivermectin is a drug that has perhaps the safest profile of anything we have discovered. Literally billions of human doses have been administered over decades – with an astonishingly low rate of harm. The fact of these desperate parents grossly overdosing their daughter, probably by several orders of magnitude – yet remarkably she is still alive – is a powerful testament to how safe ivermectin actually is, even when absurdly abused.
And given how extensively Ivermectin is used as a human medicine, mis-characterising it as "horse de-wormer" or "pet medicine" is blatantly dishonest.
Our collective understanding of how life works, of why so many ailments and diseases occur and how best to manage them is still very much in it's early stages. There remains so much we do not know and some humility in the light of that fact would go a long way to lowering the fevered temperature of so much of these debates.
My concern is that misguided people are administering an OTC medicine to children until their children have blurred vision and keep doing so until this clears at about a 'couple of months'.
Reading down the article it seems that this is being used on children with autism. An anti worm medicine is being used on children with behavioural problems, it reminds me of exorcisms etc.
"And given how extensively Ivermectin is used as a human medicine, mis-characterising it as "horse de-wormer" or "pet medicine" is blatantly dishonest"….+1
RL, haven't you noticed (I am sure you must have) that Joe90 just regurgitates, pretty much verbatim, all Western Liberal MSM talking points, no matter how outrageous…this is merely one more slimy lump in that endless steaming rotting stream of propaganda….shit this guy would probably still defend the Trump/Russia collusion conspiracy today, given half the chance….a filthy hoax I might add, that helped in no small way, lay the ground work that has led to 100,000 dead Ukraine lives and at least as many Russian, in the Russia/US proxy war that we are all sadly, impotently watching unfold before us today.
[Your thirst for taking shots at others, be it journalists, media outlets or other commenters, has no bounds. You have been warned about this so many times and last time you were banned for one month. Yet, here we are again with you taking a shot at another commenter that shows zero respect, lacks any redeeming political comment or opinion, and is off-topic. Ban doubled to two months – Incognito]
Classy comment, on topic, about the issue.
Mod note
The need to improve medical practices is relevant to idiots harming their kids?
Red Logix
So pleased to again be reading your well written , logical and fair comments
In a sea of dim bulb comments i can only agree Francesca
The very short article you link to was woefully bereft of proper analysis.
How? It doesn't say.
In the absence of a proper report it must be assumed this is yet another conspiracy theory promoted by people suspicious of the medical profession ie, anti-vaxxers.
Ivermectin damaging children after being prescribed by their lunatic parents only happens because unqualified cranks continue to promote its benefits (to horses) online.
It's by John Hopkins, is quite serious work
Fragmented insurance networks – people without insurance, lack of early intervention …
Medical error, appears to mean a failure of the health system to operate effectively.
All good, but is it factored in that the people presenting to hospital are already at serious risk by dint of presenting to hospital?
We don't know because John Hopkins didn't say in detail how they arrived at their conclusion.
At least we don't know from the very scant of information article Redlogix based his argument on. That did not stop RL presenting it as fact in his defence of veterinary medicine, Ivermectin.
Sure, the article does not explain the modelling used.
Those presenting without insurance may not receive the best care, and there may be an influence from pharma on care offered/practice etc.
One can note atm, post pandemic lockdown and vaccination, a number of countries have higher than normal death rates. There is speculation as to the why and a range of answers are tentatively suggested.
(warning RL will respond to calling ivermectin a veterinary medicine when it has been prescribed for use to millions of humans and when used in that way has been quite safe)
It is the self prescription which is the issue, isn't it? Few medicines are happily self prescribed without heavy online encouragement.
Best leave it to trained doctors, eh.
Ha ha yes right.
Children need to be protected from some parents. Taking Ivermectin off prescription for an illness that Ivermectin cannot treat sounds like cruelty to me.
Yes of course for the correctly diagnosed problems not for the 'treatment' of autism or any other long term use that involves taking it through side effects such as blurry sight.
From Dermnetnz
https://dermnetnz.org/topics/ivermectin
While it used as an anti-parasitic, it has anti-viral properties. And because of that and its safe user profile (right dosage at least) some resorted to it out of hope (pre vaccine) and because some of the developed anti-virals do not have as safe a user profile.
This early
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41429-020-0336-z
And more recently
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9135450/
Ivermecticin is no longer an effective wormer, it has become resistive to parasitic worms, don't you think the manufacturers are laughing all the way to the bank having found fools to buy their product.
Merck would rather sell its anti-viral – ivermectin is cheap to produce and low cost (often given away in the third world).
You can literally call their choice of ivermectin deworming medicine. The majority of people choosing to overdose themselves and their children are using vetinary-grade anti-parasite doses formulated for horses or for other large animals, not formulated for humans, or at human-sized doses.
'herxing'? They have no idea what that is obviously, but it's a pretty cool sounding word.
They're all batshit crazy.
Poor bloody kids
An inflammatory response to a therapy, usually an antibiotic. Not to be confused with being floxed.
In the Greens State of the Planet 2023 speech they lay down the gauntlet:
https://www.greens.org.nz/enough_slow_progress_2023_is_a_fight_for_our_future
From the speech; the starkness of the choice is made clear:
https://www.greens.org.nz/green_party_co_leader_james_shaw_s_state_of_the_planet_speech_2023
Only with more Greens in parliament can we achieve our climate targets, the dangers of delaying are unavoidable:
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018882198/climate-policies-burn-on-the-bread-and-butter-bonfire
2023 really must be the climate election.
Aren’t the Greens caught in a bit of a cleft stick here?
The green wing of the part rightly decries the Govt’s slowing down of it’s climate change policies. That wing of the part that focuses on poverty and the cost of living issues must be delighted that Labour is concentrating there.
There isn't really a dichotomy between 'wings' such that you describe:
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/486276/greens-lay-down-climate-change-election-challenge-to-other-parties
I am seriously f…ed off with New Zealand Cricket.
Selling the rights for home test matches to Spark Sport means that unless I want to pay for yet another streaming service, I don’t get to watch my country’s team, even when they’re playing at home.
https://hd.crichdplayer.xyz/bt-sport-2-live-streaming-hd-uk-39
Thank you!
If you publish stream details like that they will soon be blocked.
This is one area that the Aussies have got right with their anti-siphoning legislation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-siphoning_laws_in_Australia
Agree Stephen….I can't even get an audio commentary online…which is sometimes superior to visual access.
Apparently it's available via the rova app. My 2 year old device is outdated so best of luck.
https://www.rova.nz/home.html
https://www.todayfm.co.nz/home/sport/2022/09/today-fm-cricket-frequencies.html
On Today fm radio.
And while we sleep this is happening across NZ.
Julian Batchelor.
He is one scary dude/demagogue
Kaipara
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/03/police-step-in-at-anti-co-governance-event-after-crowd-clashes-with-organiser.html
Orewa
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/anti-co-governance-roadshow-orewa-protesters-clash-with-attendees/VZQOUBFFUFG65CAGXGLS35BDCI/?utm_campaign=nzh_tw&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=nzh_tw#Echobox=1679183353-1
While it says the National Anthem was sung this was only the first (English) verse and most participants turned their backs on the protestors and sat back down.
Julian Batchelor is the founder of Evangelism Strategies
https://www.nzwao.com/company?utm_source=evangelism-strategies-international-limited
but far from welcoming all this
‘This organisation mobilises and motivates churches for the Great Commission’
https://theconversation.com/what-is-the-great-commission-and-why-is-it-so-controversial-111138#:~:text=Briefly%2C%20the%20Great%20Commission%20is,%E2%80%9D%20and%20%E2%80%9Cbaptize%E2%80%9D%20them.
So the Great Commission has a belief not in religious diversity but in the opposite
From The Conversation link above.
The connection of the two causes does suggest a western "civilisation" centric approach. The far north also produced John Banks, John Carter, Wayne Brown (term as Mayor ended by John Carter) and Matt King.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/nationals-northland-election-candidate-announced/KXQSAKT5KVEXFG6O434RJYOKZA/
Former Kaipara Mayor, Matakohe farmer and cousin of former MP Sir Lockwood Smith KNZM, Dr Jason Smith, 51 and Felicity Foy of Te Rarawa were the two alternatives.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/felicity-foy-puts-up-hand-to-be-northlands-national-candidate/WGWLSEJT5G7XR3BWN6KXTQKL2U/
The Greens would like Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull banned from New Zealand.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/rainbow-greens-urge-government-to-ban-anti-transgender-activist-from-new-zealand/6SZZCW4LBRGWXBQ63PSH7QHM4Q/
https://twitter.com/amy_sargeant_/status/1636895480994201600
Another really horrible image from Melbourne. The “paedo freaks” they are wanting to exterminate are simply transgender people. 1930s Germany, anyone?
These men who appeared in masks doing the sieg hail are nothing to do with Let Women Speak.
Think about it. The gender critical movement is about women, many of whom are feminists speaking up about the rights of biological women.
I have just listened to a video by Kellie, describing what happened. These people are nothing to do with her.
Kellie is being completely smeared.
The problem is wherever KJKM goes there is militant controversy. We do not need this Nazi saluting stuff in New Zealand.
I think we need to Let Women Speak.
Speak Up for Women had their meetings about gender self ID shut down, rather than being listened to. They wanted the law about changing your sex on your birth certificate to stay as it was i.e a process through the family court. Pretty reasonable really.
They also believe that biological sex is real, not a social construct (as claimmed by the likes of Judith Butler). They want protection for women in prisons, sports, awards, refuges etc.
They are against the affirmation model for kids with gender dysphoria.
Its quite simple really. But we have been shut down smeared and vilified.
Kellie Jean pulls no punches. She states things like women don’t have penises. The Trans lobby smears people and cancels them. That is their modus operandi.
Let women speak needs to go ahead.
When a bunch of testosterone laden lunkheads calling themselves "Antifa" decides to disrupt a group of women defending their rights to protect themselves as a sex class, and a similar bunch of testosterone laden lunkheads calling themselves "Nazis" decides to take the opportunity to have a go – the main thing they have in common is their commitment to male privilege and male aggression.
Was the other group all male and identify as Antifa?
What does that mean?
Then the argument would be that we should not give entry visas to the Nazis that were doing the saluting.
I agree Anker.
Everyone is resisting looking at how/why giving human/civil rights to one group is taking them from another.
In real words do not be in a rush to give everyone who wants to don a frock the moniker of woman.
Women need safe spaces and safe spaces do not include being in confined spaces (Toilets) or spaces with children (mothers with children in changing rooms) or receiving counselling for rape and other sexual assaults, or in women's prisons with men who have not transitioned. Men with intact genitalia should be restricted from female spaces.
Many females agree with giving rights to trans people, but these rights should not be at the expense of the rights of women.
This pure and simple is what KJKM is talking about. Smearing her is just one way of making sure that this message does not get through.
I don't think any woman who has been following this is surprised at the shock horror of there being neo nazis around.
it's true she is being smeared. It's also true that she has refused to condemn the Nazis or distance herself from them. That's a problem.
Perhaps take time to read the Greens statement. Posey Parker is anti-Muslim and has hung out with Proud Boys in the US. She doesn't just advocate a pro-women position, but also advocates virulently against trans people. Links in the Greens statement include UK feminist organisations who dissociated themselves from her because of these anti views.
I've seen a couple of nauseating clips from her podcast that immediately struck down her credibility. Be careful who you climb in bed with.
https://www.greens.org.nz/kellie_jay_keen_minshull
Just looked at the first two reasons given on that list, calling for women who identify as trans men to be "sterilised" and saying that women who oppose the cause will be “annihilated” – it is classic "force and power" language.
It reminds one of Stopes and Sanger, both womens rights on access to contraception, but also into "eugenics" to sell it to others as "population" management. That also led to them getting connections to the right.
I've not seen the evidence that the Nazis are KJK supporters. Incredibly biased reporting. The Nazis marched between LWS and the gender activists, they faced the activists and did the salute. The activists had previously been engaged with the police, apparently punching the horses bellies to try and break the line. Policy told the organisers and women speakers of LWS to be prepared to run if the lines broke. Two lots of militant men facing off.
Has anyone explained yet why the police let them go there?
KJK causes a lot of grief by not making a statement distancing herself from the Nazis. A number of women involved have objected to having to make statements because they think it's a distraction. Fortunately GC women in NZ have made statements against Nazis.
Agree with the biased reporting.
Neo Nazis, 'shock horror' will yet again put off having to deal with the points that women have been making………
I have no truck with Nazis.
The women who are concerned about the reach of the trans rights activism need to be respected. There are many of us from the mildest to the most forthright.
This is one of the songs of the 70s. I am Woman, Helen Reddy with the focus on the words
Can we at least talk about the reasons for the visit, the views and reflect on the point that in giving rights to one group should not mean that the rights of another should be lessened.
The Nazis focus is an unpleasant smokescreen diverting people from dealing with the real issues.
Amy Sargeant is also manipulating the narrative. What evidence is there that the Nazis were protecting KJK?
The Rainbow Greens at least. Thankfully the Greens seem to understand that now is not the time to poke at the culture wars. There's nothing on their main twitter and didn't see anything on their FB either. This time and when the original PR was done.
See link above to the official Greens statement. The Rainbow Greens are not the only signers.
yeah, that's fair, I had mistakenly read that as those three MPs being part of the RGs. My point stands. The GP twitter and FB accounts haven't shared this, it's not in their news feed, and that letter isn't easy to find on the GP front page (when I looked last week at least).
I found it a credible argument for at least serious monitoring of her in NZ, if not shutting her out. The case was well supported with examples that she is a provocateur, weka. I'm a little disappointed with the tarring of so-called tarrers, who weren't. She looks right up Counterspin’s alley.
The only credible argument I can see if her populist conservative position on trans rights alongside her refusal to condemn the Nazis in Melbourne (because she vehemently rejects guilt by association) somehow encourages Nazis in NZ to violence or hate speech. Seems a long bow to draw though.
Also, the RGs call Woman's Place UK extreme anti-trans. If they're going to use hyperbole like that it makes their whole argument suspect.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/03/co-leader-james-shaw-marama-davidson-call-for-stronger-climate-action-at-greens-state-of-the-planet-speech.html
An interesting tack, of course their room to operate after the election is limited by the lack of alternative to a Labour led government for Greens to work with.
Another bank in trouble. Why is it when financial gurus fail when gaming their own system, everyone else has to pay?
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/486301/credit-suisse-bank-ubs-said-to-be-in-takeover-talks-with-troubled-rival
For example, I have put $1300 into my KiwiSaver over the last 12 months and my balance has barely shifted.
Guillotine for the thieves not far away, surely.
"For example, I have put $1300 into my KiwiSaver over the last 12 months and my balance has barely shifted."
Some have put 10s of thousands into property purchases in the last couple of years and are watching it disappear.
Because property in NZ is vastly overvalued when compared with international values.
A bank-run away from catastrophe.
https://twitter.com/davidgura/status/1635831021336657920
[…]
The good news about this issue is that banks are generally in a strong financial condition, and have not been forced to realize losses by selling depreciated securities. On the other hand, unrealized losses weaken a bank’s future ability to meet unexpected liquidity needs. That is because the securities will generate less cash when sold than was originally anticipated, and because the sale often causes a reduction of regulatory capital.
https://www.fdic.gov/news/speeches/2023/spmar0623.html
There seems to be a push to try to redeem the term 'woke' at present.
I consider it ill-advised, it having been misused to the point of losing meaning.
The Critical Drinker has some explanations about woke issues in movies.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/03/election-2023-act-greens-launch-attacks-over-ineffectiveness-reactionary-race-baiting-politics.html
This is inept, the Greens have never been in a coalition government, not in the last 5 years, or any other time.
1999-2002 Labour-Alliance (Greens c and s)
2002 2005 Labour-Progressive (United c and s)
2005-2008 Labour-Progressive (United and NZF c and s)
2017-2020 Labour-NZF (Greens c and s)
2020 Labour (co-operation agreement with Greens).
Does no one fact check speeches before they are made, ones hope their party media comms vet this sort of stuff in election year …
It's a bit one-sided
Van Veldon confuses the lack of oil and gas exploration with the current need to import coal (exploration would only have an impact on the future availability of local oil or gas – by which time there was no expectation of any need to import coal).
Note the attempt to sell the nationalism of local carbon use being better to Greens.
An easy differentation is then made