Open mike 19/05/2024

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 19th, 2024 - 31 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

31 comments on “Open mike 19/05/2024 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Morrissey 1
    19 May 2024 at 9:03 am

    "I'm the one who's actually brave on this."

    The ludicrous, pretentious Bill Maher does not usually invite smart people onto his awful show. He made the mistake of having Glenn Greenwald on once. That was a disaster for Maher. Now he's gone and done it again, and invited on the far smarter Bill Burr. Or maybe Maher’s producers have a wicked sense of humour….

    • Incognito 1.1
      19 May 2024 at 9:40 am

      FFS! Your comment is empty waffle that tells us nothing except to click & watch a 15-min YT report on a show (on YT too?). This fits your MO here on TS: a carrier pigeon who shits on the donkey that kicked the messenger – the message is completely lost in the kerfuffle. It’s great stuff for entertaining little kids but doesn’t make for an adult convo let alone robust debate (with you).

      • Morrissey 1.1.1
        19 May 2024 at 9:52 am

        FFS! Your comment is empty waffle that tells us nothing…

        ????

        You mean you don't like what I said. In just a few sentences, I pointed out that Bill Maher is pretentious and shallow, and that he occasionally makes the mistake of trying to engage with smart people, who invariably make him look foolish.

        Your frothing, reflexive hostility is almost as amusing as witnessing somebody like Maher flounder in public.

        [Woosh!

        You wouldn’t recognise that sound that’s from a Mod Hawk that just flew over your head.

        Stop trolling with your vacuous non-content and potshots at messengers. This is your warning – Incognito]

    • Phillip ure 1.2
      19 May 2024 at 11:03 am

      Why would you link to such a boring bid of vid..?…brief excerpts from the barr/maher vid…but mainly these three nobody's banging on about what exactly..?

      • Morrissey 1.2.1
        19 May 2024 at 11:09 am

        True, Phillip, they do drone on a bit. For a more concise humiliation of that frightful old bore, I recommend you do a YouTube search on "Greenwald + Maher".

        • Traveller 1.2.1.1
          19 May 2024 at 8:26 pm

          I don't think you understand just how ridiculous these videos are. The full version of the debate could be a good watch. But a video in which 3 self-indulgent pseudo intellectuals play 'gotcha', in which we hear more from these 3 bozos than either of Maher or Burr, is a waste of time.

          • Morrissey 1.2.1.1.1
            20 May 2024 at 6:34 am

            I understand how long-winded they are. I apologise for impinging on your time.

  2. KJT 2
    19 May 2024 at 9:34 am

    Charter schools are just another example of this Governments. "if it doesn't work, we need more of it".

    Of course it works fine, however, to transfer our money and asserts into private hands. Which is the goal.

    Opinion | The Federal Government Has Poured Millions into Failing Charter Schools in Louisiana | Common Dreams

    spread schools that open and close, repeatedly, and fund charter organizations that churn through districts and neighborhoods without any obvious regard for what parents and local officials want. “illegal experiment” on their children.

    What Seymour wants. Is the opposite of freedom and local control.

  3. Dolomedes III 3
    19 May 2024 at 10:25 am

    Both the Nats and ACT are committed to reducing NZ's net emissions. Note in particular ACT's pledge to "Fast-track permit development to make offshore wind easier to permit", and the Nats' ambitious plan to "electrify NZ":

    https://www.national.org.nz/electrifynz

    https://www.act.org.nz/energy

    Why these policies, if they “don’t recognise climate science”? However, the government does recognize the reality that at present we still need fossil fuels, hence their reversal of Ardern's suppression of oil and gas exploration.

    It's clear that the current government intends to strike a different balance between conservation and wealth creation from extractive industries. And here's how Claire Trevett interprets Shane Jones' enthusiasm for fast-tracking mining: “Jones is a former Labour politician himself who harked to the working-class end of Labour rather than the progressive end. The way he wants to get voters is by creating jobs in industries such as mining, and the parts of the country that once relied on them.” And she reports that Jones is about to “head to the capital of coal, Blackball, on the West Coast, to deliver a speech. He has chosen that place partly because of its history with mining, but mainly for political mischief: it was the Labour Party’s birthplace.”

    Unfortunately Trevett's article is paywalled, but it's reported here on The Democracy Project: https://democracyproject.substack.com/p/can-shane-jones-be-trusted-in-making?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=1885783&post_id=144710222&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=1vvcih&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

    But this provides no basis for your claim that the current government "does not recognise … conservation". It means the new government's hierarchy of priorities differs from the previous government's. And if they get too permissive about mining on land with high conservation value, I'll be among those protesting about it.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    [I have zero interest in NACT First propaganda or propaganda from any NZ political party under my Post, so feel free to continue this in OM.

    In addition, your RW virtue signalling has been noted – Incognito]

    • Incognito 3.1
      19 May 2024 at 11:29 am

      Mod note

      • Dolomedes III 3.1.1
        19 May 2024 at 12:10 pm

        Your moving my comment to Open Mike is misleading, as you've divorced it from the comment by Patricia Bremner that I was responding to. Posted here divorced from its context, it DOES look like Nats/ACT propaganda (nice one). But in the original context I linked to the Nats and ACT websites to provide evidence to challenge some unsupported claims by Patricia Bremner. We're supposed to be evidence-based on this site, right?

        • Incognito 3.1.1.1
          19 May 2024 at 3:11 pm

          What a load of nonsense!

          Propaganda still is propaganda even when read on its own.

          What you call ‘evidence to challenge’ or ‘evidence-based’ is merely a poor substitute for propaganda, which demonstrates your bias.

          FYI, it's every TS Author’s prerogative to moderate their own Posts as they see fit, incl. moving comments to OM, irrespective of being a Moderator at large or not.

          So, stop your moaning and enjoy your commenting privileges here on this site.

          • Dolomedes III 3.1.1.1.1
            19 May 2024 at 5:54 pm

            Of course it's your right to moderate your posts as you see fit. And a moderator's decisions tell readers a lot about him/her as a person.

            • Incognito 3.1.1.1.1.1
              19 May 2024 at 8:17 pm

              Well, thank you surprise

              I moved your comment to OM, as is my prerogative as Author. Why don’t you pick up the baton here in OM and defend your indefensible NACT propaganda or do you just come here to troll? Or is it too hard for you? Show us whether you’ve got what it takes to hold a robust debate because the lack of strong evidence so far is astonishing.

              You’re showing yourself to be a waste of time here and yet you keep digging!?

    • Bearded Git 3.2
      19 May 2024 at 1:20 pm

      "Both the Nats and ACT are committed to reducing NZ's net emissions. Note in particular ACT's pledge to "Fast-track permit development to make offshore wind easier to permit", and the Nats' ambitious plan to electrify NZ."

      Come off it Dolomedes-if this was the case why did Simeon Brown not mention the option of grid battery power storage {GBS} on RNZ's Morning Report when we had the potential grid outage last week? (Megan Woods, Labour's spokesperson on CC and Energy did refer to GBS on the same programme) California is already spending many millions on GBS-this option is already viable and getting cheaper and more efficient all the time.

      Instead Brown banged on about the reintroduction of the search for oil and gas in NZ waters, a position directly opposed to reducing emissions. And both the Nats and ACT are committed to 4-lane RONS and 4-lane RORS, both of which fly in the face of CC. I could go on about their anti-public transport policies etc etc

      BTW there are already a large number of windfarms and solar farms (now cheaper than wind and less unsightly) consented to and others in the pipeline. NZ does not need the fast track process for renewables. This is just more empty rhetoric from Luxon/Seymour.

    • KJT 3.3
      19 May 2024 at 4:38 pm

      Both the Nats and ACT are committed to reducing NZ's net emissions.

      Another satirist.

      Governments that are "committed to reducing" something, normally refrain from removing policies that reduce it!

  4. Morrissey 4
    19 May 2024 at 10:40 am

    Both the Nats and ACT are committed to reducing NZ's net emissions.

    cheeky

    That's the funniest statement I've seen since Bill Maher called himself "brave" the other day.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

  5. Subliminal 5
    19 May 2024 at 12:08 pm

    At a time when Julian Assange is about to go back to court for exposing the criminal conduct of the US military in Iraq and the depth to which the CIA has reached into and controls civil data collection, it is pertinent to look at the extent of control in western media and the highly effective mechainisms for determining that reporting follows certain narrow boundaries.

    First up is the one time editor of the German daily Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, a major german paper. His name was Udo Ulfkotte. Udo died in 2017, so well before the Russian invasion of Ukraine. At some point before he died, (at the earliest, 2016) he did an interview with RT.

    He then stated that he published under his name texts written by agents of various intelligence services, including the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). Before his death, Ulfkotte gave an interview to the Russian television RT, in which he stated that he was "very afraid of a new war in Europe, and that the German and U.S. media want to push Europe into war and provoke war on Russian territory". "Looking at how the German and American media are bringing war to Europe, I speak up to say that what I did in the past, manipulated people, participated in anti-Russian propaganda is wrong. The war with Russia is a point of no return. What my colleagues do is wrong. I have written a book because I am very afraid of a new war in Europe. War never comes of its own accord, there are always people who stand up for it and it's not just politicians, but also journalists. We betrayed our readers, just to push the war. I don't want this anymore, I'm tired of this propaganda. We live in a banana republic, not a democratic country where we have freedom the press", Ulfkotte said at the time.

    The point he is making, so many years ago is not to ascribe blame. How could he, the war hadnt begun, but to show that he was being asked to print articles in his name that were written by intelligence agencies, with the express aim of preparing the population for a war against Russia.

    https://x.com/ivan_8848/status/1790713783544885573?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1790713783544885573%7Ctwgr%5E22ba6995387668d40071061c35e04db38a10a925%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nakedcapitalism.com%2F2024%2F05%2Flinks-5-18-2024.html

    The second instance is recent and comes from Canada.

    Trying to work your way up to a permanent position at Canada’s public broadcaster requires knowing the sort of stories, angles and guests that are acceptable—and which are out of bounds. As a precarious “casual” employee—a class of worker that makes up over a quarter of CBC’s workforce—it hadn’t taken me long to realize that the subject of Israel-Palestine was to be avoided wherever possible. When it was covered, it was tacitly expected to be framed in such a way as to obscure history and sanitize contemporary reality.

    After October 7, it was no longer possible for the corporation to continue avoiding it. But because CBC had never properly contextualized the world’s longest active military occupation in the lead-up to that atrocity, it was ill-equipped to report on what happened next.

    The CBC would spend the following months whitewashing the horrors that Israel would visit on Palestinians in Gaza. In the days after Israel began its bombing campaign, this was already evident: while virtually no scrutiny was applied to Israeli officials and experts, an unprecedented level of suspicion was being brought to bear on the family members of those trapped in Gaza.

    https://breachmedia.ca/cbc-whitewashed-israels-crimes-gaza-firsthand/

    In both theses cases, it is very clear to the journalists that their jobs and career paths are dependent on their publishing stories inside a very narrow band of views.

    It is also of intrest that in the interview with Udo, when asked which countries have similar setups for enforcing conformity, he names the UK as a country where the bond between intelligence agencies and the press is more tightly woven even than Germany and specifically states that Aus and NZ have these same links and pressures on journalists to conform.

  6. Corey 6
    19 May 2024 at 1:38 pm

    Thoughts after seeing Hipkins speech:

    1. This government being so unpopular right now has Labour foolishly thinking it can do zero self reflection or soul searching and carry on as before and just hope the government disintegrates.

    2. That thinking ignores the fact that everyone still hates Labour for gas lighting us for 6 years on housing healthcare poverty education and cost of living and feeding us nothing but sacharin shiny good vibes and acting like feral cats when people fairly questioned their priorities.

    3. If Labour is overconfident so early on in then it's not going to do any self reflection or be working on any new policy platforms it's just going to smugly coast, parliamentary terms are only 3 years, not much time to formulate policy.

    4. Betting on National remaining unpopular and the economy remaining bad is unwise. Theres never been a one term tory govt in NZ before for a reason, they are damn good at politics

    5. This speech is terribly, it's full of the same shiny sacharin good vibey nothing Labours offered for the last 7 years but delivered poorly by a bad orator.

    6. Chris Hipkins is literally Labours version of Simeon Brown, he is immensely unlikable, undeservingly smug and worst of all a droning bore. He is deeply unpleasant.

    We do presidental style politics in NZ now whether you love it or hate and Chris Hipkins lost to the most unpopular incumbent first term PM in history,eren must retire from politics.

    7. The only likeable people in the NZLP caucus are Kieren McNulty and Duncan Webb, Kieren should be the leader of the Labour party come February 2025 and a lot of sitting mp's like Deborah Russel , Helen White, Damien O'Connor etc should be announcing they are retiring in 2026.

    8. the problem isn't just whose delivering the message it's Labours message itself … It's empty nothing, it doesn't speak to any of the daunting pressing issues of our time and talks about far away targets. Labour needs to change it needs to be setting its priorities to be about delivering real on the ground change not platitudes on hope and virtue signalling about identity. ..

    People are losing their jobs, homes, lives if this is the best the NZLP can do then we're f**king cooked

    • Obtrectator 6.1
      19 May 2024 at 2:52 pm

      Can't disagree. Hipkins was probably a highly competent Mr Fixit in the last government, but he simply isn't a natural front man or numero uno. Doesn't look the part. Even when the words he speaks are making sense, he still looks like a rabbit caught in the headlights. Like it or not, performing the roles of PM and LOTO is often just that – performing. There's an unavoidable element of theatricality, the need for which can't be disregarded. Chippie doesn't command it. Has to go.

    • bwaghorn 7.1
      19 May 2024 at 6:21 pm

      Can't work out why obrain has gone down the puff piece track,

      keys been talking the sneaky woman for years, which means she thinks like him or is managed by him,

      Almost vomited at the bs about her little darlings doing it hard ,

  8. simbit 8
    19 May 2024 at 3:22 pm

    [The following is a very good reply – some would say a ‘damning’ one – to a comment (https://thestandard.org.nz/are-we-drifting-away-or-falling-apart/#comment-2000139) by Dolomedes III under a different Post:

    The previous government undermined science by bringing maatauranga into the science curriculum.

    However, even though the present comment is a strong response & rebuttal of the one-liner by Dolomedes III, I’ve moved it to OM in the hope that it will elicit further robust debate here – Incognito]

    Speaking from the frontlines of science, the government undermines what many argue is the sine qua non of Western modernity by 1. ignoring the accumulated knowledge of science (some of the evidence provided by politicians up to and inlcuding the PM is as shocking as ignoring the evidence provided by people dedicated to exactly the insights we need as a society and eocnomy); 2. Ending many many science positions across govt, including CRIs, and undermining universities so that they are no longer employing or training a critical mass of the very people who one looks to inform the multiple urgent debates we should be having.

    As to matauranga (and acknowledging the space in OM to have a fuller debate), this Indigenous Knowledge is, like all other IKs, empirically based and brutal in its pragmatism. It amounts to a 'cultural license to operate': you wanna develop your fast-track gizmo's in Ngai Tahu territory, they'll draw on their matauraka to inform their position (which may not be opposition), just as they'll roll out their legal team.

    Many people, including govt and opposition members, are thrown by the so-called 'metaphysics' of Maori (and its worth looking up exactly what Plato meant by what became metaphysics because of a catologuing decision). As a Maori researcher I do not want any govt encroaching beyond its secular status and tbh, mauri is not something I dabble with or comment on. Matauranga is localised knowledge held by rights holders. It works alongside farmers insights and little old ladies and their gardening journals. It is named within several pieces of legislation including Settlements – not to be fiddled with according to the current govt – and the Haka Ka Mate Attribution Act of 2014. Go on, run that down lol.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • Incognito 8.1
      19 May 2024 at 3:38 pm

      Mod note and thank you for your excellent reply.

      • adam 8.1.1
        19 May 2024 at 11:17 pm

        Maybe put it up as a post Incognito?

        As it is rather good.

        • Incognito 8.1.1.1
          20 May 2024 at 8:34 am

          I agree, and I’d be quite happy to assist simbit with morphing their comment into a Guest Post if they are game.

          The way I see it, in the context of this blog site, there are two aspects to this: 1) epistemological; 2) politico-ideological.

  9. Bearded Git 9
    19 May 2024 at 5:29 pm

    Chris Trotter really nails it here. Luxon's political inexperience and lack of empathy, Seymour's extremism and Peters' slow decline into irrelevance are leading NZ towards an inevitable one-term government.

    https://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2024/05/this-unreasonable-government.html