Open mike 19/09/2023

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 19th, 2023 - 63 comments
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63 comments on “Open mike 19/09/2023 ”

  1. Bearded Git 1

    A Queenstown mayor talking a lot of sense on housing and sticking it to Luxon. Maybe there is a god.

  2. bwaghorn 2

    Watching chippie on 1 news now on youth crime, brilliant compared to lock im up boot camp nact.

  3. aj 3

    The manner in which Corrin and Ingrid this morning are feeding fear of public transport and the bus stations in Auckland makes my head spin. You'd think they were the most dangerous places to be on the planet.

    No sense of perspective at all.

    And again at about 7:25am

    • Sabine 3.1

      They have been the most dangerous place yesterday for someone, who is now dead.

      A few weeks ago a young girl was viciously beaten bloody by a mob of youngsters while waiting for the bus.
      several times there were children bashing other children at bus stops in CHCH.

      and bus drivers get it too.

      links are very easy to find, just throw bus stop bashing in the search engine and you will see how safe public transport is.

      And i get it, it was just one person who was killed yesterday, and that leaves many people who got to use public transport safely. But for one person public transport was as unsafe as it gets.

      Maybe we need a manifesto for the police, and the judiciary. But i guess this poor murderer will be excused out of a prison sentence into a home D debacle cause their life was hard, no one loved them, their family is shite and well…kindness. s/

      • Peter 3.1.1

        Was it public transport which was the problem? Was the venue random? Had there been a disagreement somewhere which just happened to resolve itself in that particular place?

        Should we spread the fear and say it could have been anywhere and have everyone everywhere live in trepidation?

        Do people not go to Aramoana or mosques or Dilworth School 'just in case'?

        • Ad

          It really is a social problem where lots of young people congregate. It is a massively subsidised public policy to enable young people to use public transport, congregate in public transport stations, and so it is a public policy problem for AT and NZTA and Police to address.

          Yes the problem is real.

          • Graeme

            Also not really a new problem. The old Britomart bus station of 70's wasn't the nicest of places either.

            • Ad

              Agree not new, but certainly multiples larger as a problem now.

              The Britomart of the late 1980s and early 1990s saw public transport use fall to its very lowest point.

              For comparison: Britomart since 2003 and upgraded in 2021 as a fully turnstiled operation with tens of thousands of people thorugh it every day, and is well staffed and surveilled and as a result has near-zero crime.

            • Visubversa

              Not the safest place at night in the 1960's either. I caught the last bus home to Mission Bay on many a Friday night.

        • Mike the Lefty

          More people get assaulted or worse in their own homes but we don't see the media getting excited about that. Perhaps the media are practicing for the full scale dumping on public transport that the NACTs have planned for us over the next few years.

      • Corey 3.1.2

        Nzers who think nz and or nz public transportation is dangerous should travel the world more. They'll yearn for the "danger" of nz lol.

        It's hilarious and cute that a country with one of the very lowest crime rates in the world thinks crimes out of control… Compared to where? Greenland? Iceland?

        People act like nz transport is as scary as catching a train in NYC (which is still safe!)

      • AB 3.1.3

        Murder or manslaughter are serious crimes and the offender (being under 17) is likely to end up in a Corrections youth unit. Though I guess this might be determined by their age at sentencing. I take your point that PT must be safe and must also be seen to be safe, or else there is a disincentive to use it. However if you think locking this young bloke up in any sort of facility is going to make either of those goals more attainable, you're in Mark Mitchell's lala-land. But the kicker is that not locking him up is not going to make them more attainable either. The so-called corrections system cannot solve the problem whatever it does.

    • Molly 3.3

      Instead of hand-waving away concerns and questions after the death of a public transport user, perhaps take time to consider if this is a problem or not. As Sabine shows above, this is not an isolated incident in terms of violence and safety.

      Unlike many other transport systems, Auckland Transport train system allows non-passengers on to the platform. Harassment and intimidation is not unknown, and the failure to have onsite guards or staff members makes this an act without consequences or impediments. Some stations are distinctly uneasy places to be at night, particularly for women. AT focus seems to be on architecture and other aspects – not service delivery in this respect.

      I suspect your "sense of perspective" may be skewed by the desire to pretend there is no improvements necessary, therefore no change of government is needed. Even though it's a long reach – some seem to be making it.

      • Ad 3.3.1

        Most of AT's main train stations are indeed card-only access with turnstile barriers; the likes of Henderson, New Lynn, Newmarket, Britomart, Panmure, Manukau, Papakura, and others. Once CRL opens, those stations such as K'Road, Mt Eden, Aotea etc will also be card-access only. The smaller stations like the Onehunga line aren't likely to get them.

        The North Shore Busway would need a significant redesign for its stations to be HOP-card only. Same with the busway under construction Panmure-Botany.

        It might be possible in future to card-only whole bus-rail interchanges such as New Lynn and Manukau, but it's pretty unlikely. I would expect AT and Police to be reviewing the patrol and security measures as a result of this incident.

        • Sanctuary

          Interesting that AT's card system only just came back up afdter being down for five days due to a ransomware attack

          It hasn't been reported at all here, but the Las Vegas casino/hotels have also been hit with a massive ransonware attack with MGM losing US$8-9,000,000 per day and Caesars rumoured to have paid a US$15,000,000 ransom.

          Since the "Scattered Spider" group behind the US attacks seems now to be part of a Russian organised crime gang it would be interesting tho know if a) there has been an uptick in such crime since the Russian invasion of the Ukraine and b) the origin of the AT attack.

          If the AT attack is linked to Russian crime gangs then does it constitute an act of asymetric cyber-warfare linked to our support for Ukraine?

          • Ad

            One of the strongest arguments against a nationwide NZTA-run public transport PT card is precisely that one malware attack doesn't take out an entire national system.

            Thankfully in the tender hands of NZTA's IT team they have been two Parliamentary terms trying to make a nationwide card system and we are still another Parliamentary term away from implementation.

            Still in a nation of just 5 million and just two cities with functioning PT systems plus bits of Christchurch and Dunedin, it can't be this hard? For this long?

        • Molly

          South Auckland stations may have been upgraded – ? – do you know?

          But was not unusual to have young teens on bikes harassing passengers on the platform.

          • Ad

            Yes some have. But what card-only zones generate in reality is a safer zone inside the barrier-protected area, and a bit of a melee outside particularly after High Schools get out and groups of moronic males settle scores with each other.

            Not even Barry Manilow on the loudspeakers 24-7 can bring those tempers down. We tried it in Henderson and it was partially successful.

            AT and its Board will surely be held accountable for this kind of critical public safety risk since they are the asset owners and operators.

            • Molly

              Good to know, thanks Ad.

              Other safety improvements like lighting, and no staff present also needed work. It would be good to see that given some attention at all stations, particularly the ones with less pedestrian traffic, and located in industrial or non-residential areas.

              • Belladonna

                Have to say that the presence of staff and even security guards doesn't materially reduce the incidences of anti-social behaviour. The young people involved are perfectly well aware that neither the staff nor the security guards can touch them, and that the police will only attend for a major incident (so yes, for the stabbing, but no for the violent assaults, and certainly not for 'routine' harassment and/or theft (e.g. stand-over tactics to extort mobile phones and even flash shoes)

                My perspective is that of someone who lives in a suburb adjacent to where these incidents occur, and with a teen who uses the PT system, and regularly reports on anti-social behaviour witnessed.

                Of course, it's not only PT stations – I have several women friends who work in the Auckland CBD and who will no longer walk on their own down Queen St after dark, to get to PT or carparks. They quite simply don't feel safe to do so.

                • Molly

                  My son used PT to go to Auckland central for study, and witnessed similar incidents to your teenage son.

                  Like many, I was a regular user of PT when living overseas, and did appreciate the fact that when travelling late at night, there were always more than one staff member on hand until stations were closed for the night for the Underground – not sure if this is the case now.

      • William 3.3.2

        You want to know something that are really not isolated incidents? The road deaths to date stands at 248 killed so far this year! Yet they are just normalised, and instead apparently people should be fearful on public transport.

        According to current election promises we'll get rid of moves to safer speeds and ambitions to road to zero.

        Let's focus on where the real danger lies.

        • Molly

          William, there are more than one instance where public safety can be improved.

          It is responsible to CONSIDER where improvements may be warranted.

          • William

            I fully agree, but I think it would be best to put most consideration into areas where the largest reduction in harm could be achieved. 248 deaths is a number that could be significantly reduced using tools we already know work.

            Maybe RNZ are monitoring TS & will pick up on it!

        • weka

          a couple of points.

          Humans are hardwired to have a different (and heightened) fear of intentional attacks than accidents, because that fear helps keep us safe. It's not an easy thing to override when we are surrounded by messages of unsafety.

          Yes, road deaths are important. They already have campaigns in place to resuce them. More needs to be done. We should also be making sure that we build safety into public transport systems, urgently where that is warranted.

        • Belladonna

          Most (although not all) involve someone who is seriously breaching the current law (driving well above the current speed limit, driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs, etc.).

          Reducing speed limits, further, is unlikely to change the behaviour of any of these people who are already ignoring the law.

          Nor does the court treatment of recidivist drunk drivers help. It's rare for any effective sanction to be applied – even after multiple appearances before the courts.

          While prison doesn't help them. It does keep them off the road. As would compulsory loss of licence (and prevention from re-applying for 5 years). And compulsory sale of any vehicles owned, and forfeiture of any vehicles lent to them – if they are caught again. Driving is not a right, it's a privilege.

          The recent case of a drunk driver – caught driving near a school, with their child in the car is a cautionary example.

          • William

            Yesterday's incident at the Albany Bus Station also involved someone who seriously breached the current law, but that act has led to media spin that public transport should be feared.

            One of the first roads to have it's speed limit reduced was SH6 between Blenheim & Nelson. That change has led to a significant reduction in serious crashes on that road.


            It seems the speed limit reduction has changed the behaviour of a significant number of drivers that you claim were mostly responsible for the serious crashes.

            • Ad

              Labour had a free run only weeks ago to put stronger rules around enforcement of risk-taking and rule-breaking drivers.

              This was in the Land Transport (Road Safety) Amendment Bill, passed in the last week the House was sitting.


              In the end it was pretty weak mostly because morons in MoT watered it down and it had little Ministerial focus. Not a difficult issue for a future law and order government to get their teeth into.

              • William

                That's depressingly familiar.

                The changes I've been interested in are the Accessible Streets regulatory changes. They would make changes for pedestrians, cyclists & other mobility devices. That paper seeks approval to put it out to consultation, which did occur in 2020. The first paper optimistically states in para 120

                "I anticipate that changes would come into effect in mid-2020."

                The resulting paper eventually went to Michael Woods' office where it languished for maybe 18 months until it apparently went back to the Ministry.

                Since then, crickets! It doesn't even require legislation but progress is almost non existent.

  4. Chris 4

    Just got another email from the nats, this time accusing Labour of spreading "misinformation" about, among other things, their tax policy.

    Interesting how they're bandying around the word "misinformation":

    "Hi Chris,

    Labour has no record to run on because they have not delivered what they said they would.

    Now they’re desperate and their MPs and candidates have been caught out spreading misinformation.

    Despite Chris Hipkins telling Kiwis he would put a stop to the flow of misinformation, Labour’s scare-campaign has continued with Michael Wood the latest Labour MP to repeat false claims about National.

    With the polls opening in two weeks National is taking urgent action to correct the record.

    We have launched a Get Back on Facts website to fight back against Labour’s misinformation.

    > Get Back on Facts <

    Labour has misled the public on National’s positions on tertiary policy, tax policy, student loans policy, education policy, and winter energy payment policy, and much more.

    Labour’s continued false statements show this is part of a carefully orchestrated scare-campaign because they are out of touch and out of ideas.

    National is focused on the issues that matter to New Zealanders.

    We have a plan to rebuild the economy to reduce the cost of living, which includes tax relief so you can keep more of what you earn.

    Only a Party Vote for National can change the government and get the country back on track.

    There are just 14 days till early voting opens. Help us fight back against Labour’s misinformation


    Thank you,
    National Party HQ"

    • SPC 4.1

      You could email them back and let them know the claims are based on ACT Party policy proposals that might be part of a NACT coalition government agreement.

      All they have to do is say they will make no concessions to ACT in these areas to dismiss any concerns.

      For example Greens want a wealth tax and free dental, Labour have said no to one and have their own plan for free dental under age 30, stage by stage.

    • Louis 4.2

      National are hypocrites.

    • Barfly 4.3

      get the country back on track

      Sorta like "Make NZ Great Again" – oh my that sunnds familiar


  5. SPC 5

    It's high noon.

    Wayne, neither black nor white, unequivocally (no shades of angry) wants to make Auckland part of the national election campaign debate.

    Auckland is "the engine room of New Zealand" but its economic and financial capital is being stymied because it doesn't have the autonomy it needs

    "Auckland Council perversely has the least say of any council over how our resources are spent. We are the country's only council that does not have a direct statutory role in setting the policy direction for transport spending."

    A day earlier

    Mayor Wayne Brown (in consultation with and on the advice of, whom) released his Auckland election manifesto

    "partnership and devolution" … "a fundamentally different relationship between Auckland Council and central government"

    Brown said the creation of the Super City in 2010 was meant to provide regional leadership for Auckland (oh so it's Hide is it)

    It seems he wants the option of control over regional area congestion (and toll?) charging, to avoid the political parties playing politics with regional fuel tax funding (tap on and tap off creating a hole in the Auckland budget – as per National).

    • Ad 5.1

      Imagine if Auckland Council and Labour had had a Minister for Auckland and a Minister for Transport and a sitting Councillor who cooperated meaningfully on key public policy issues like like rail and the control of the airport.

      Oh wait… they did cooperate. On their own direct personal gain.

      • SPC 5.1.1

        Not really, if they had he would still be a Minister (more money in that than anything to do with their petty cash holdings).

        Not even ACT claimed there was any pecuniary activity, just complacency in meeting a ministerial standard.

        • Ad

          It was their common Trust shareholding in AIAL that prevented as a both of them from being of use at either Cabinet or at Council on this issue. One was silenced and had to abstain the relevant vote, the other was simply sacked.

  6. Macro 6

    Had the immense pleasure on Sat evening to attend a Music concert in the Kauaeranga. An awesome night with "Too Many Chiefs" – Wayne Mason, Rob Joass, Andrew London, Charlotte Yates. Thought of all standard readers when Andrew sang this, Sorry can't link directly to the song but it is from 26:11 through to 30 on the video.


    Country's Buggered.

  7. Peter 7

    Did NZLoyal and Liz Gunn turn out to be just a parody? Two party candidates? The group that was going to put the country on the straight and narrow couldn’t even fill in the paperwork?

    • PsyclingLeft.Always 7.1

      Well..they were on "Unchartered" Waters. That might have been a play on Uncharted ? Or something else..entirely !

      I did try to watch some of The Vid…but my Sanity warning alarm was into the danger zone : )

      Truly.. Liz speaks for the cookers.

    • SPC 7.2

      The thing about the resistance to any governance regime that impacts on them, is that there are a lot of people with a common cause but no allegiance to any particular hierarchy.

      This is why the organised efforts to divide the secular left in the USA/west were so successful.

    • Matiri 7.3

      A triumph of waffle!

    • Ad 7.4

      The great thing is they will have their day with the voters, and the result will tell them and us all how our democracy functions every three years to balance sensible policy from nuttiness.

      On the other hand NZFirst are their back door.

      Imagining No. 3 NZFirst Casey Castello as ex Police Detective and Police Association and Hobson's Pledge player anywhere near the Police or Justice portfolio should remind us of what John Banks was like in those kind of ministerial portfolios.

    • ianmac 7.5

      I watched patches of Gunn's speech and could not get a grip on her meaning. A word salad just like Luxon. So they have just two on their List because of an Administrative error, but those two will swamp the ballot boxes with thousands and thousands of right thinking loyalists so they can totally change the way we are governed. Really Liz? Trying to decide if she really believes what she says.

      • SPC 7.5.1

        Maybe they should campaign for the end of the 5% threshold – so parties with over 1% of the vote can get one or two MP's off the list?

        • Michael P

          If you're supportive of the MP's in parliament being more representative of the people then that should be welcome.

          In my opinion proportional representation should be just that. There should be a 1% threshold and there should be only 100 MP's. Whatever percentage of the vote a party gets should directly translate to the number of MP's they get in parliament. I can't see how anybody could argue (in good faith) that this is not the fairest / most democratic way to elect MP's. It is much simpler and more representative. (the whole purpose of MMP is to have better representation)

          Whoever says a low threshold such as this is not a good idea (for whatever reason) is a phony who pretends they want a more representative, diverse and democratic parliament, but in really don't think that a certain percentage of the population should be allowed to have their views represented. If we were to say there are roughly 4 million eligible voters, then a 5% threshold means large groups of people can be excluded from having their views represented. At the last election, over 9% of voters were denied representation in parliament because apparently their views are not acceptable. That's a large proportion of voters

          If you want to be a free country and have elected representation that reflects the population as accurately as possible then you have to allow voices you disagree with to be heard and to hold as much sway as any other. This is one of the fundamental principles of having a free and democratic society.

  8. Mike the Lefty 8

    Petrol is tipped to be at around $3.50 litre for 91 grade by Christmas.

    First big test for the incoming NACT government will be whether they keep their (implied) promises to "do something about the cost of living".

    They roasted Labour when Labour temporarily reduced the petrol tax and then similarly roasted Labour when Labour put it back up.

    I'm picking that the NACTs won't reduce petrol tax. They only pretend to care about the cost of living, most of their supporters are rich enough not to have to worry about it too much, although it gets a bit annoying when your latest Ford Ranger update costs a few thousand more.

  9. georgecom 9

    2 things Hipkins can hammer home tonight – (1) the number of days Luxon hasn't released his tax cut costings and (2) when will Luxon do the simple thing and release his tax cut costings

    • Ad 9.1

      No one gives a fuck about where the money is coming from. They will vote for the guy promising them the money full stop.

      Hipkins repeating lines about tax cuts is like MSNBC endlessly cycling reports about Trump prosecutions: actual Labour+ government doesn't get discussed at all.

      • Drowsy M. Kram 9.1.1

        No one gives a fuck about where the money is coming from.

        This Kiwi gives a fuck about where the money is supposedly coming from – Nat's know I can't grab their ghost money.

        The Canadian state of Ontario (popn 15.5 million) recently raised its “non-resident speculation tax” from 20% to 25%.

        Non-Resident Speculation Tax in Canada [updated 4 Nov 2022]

        Nats could make up some of the projected shortfall in revenue from their 15% foreign buyer tax/hoax by raising it to 25% – like they raised GST to part-fund tax cuts.

        Govt’s 2010 tax cuts costing $2 billion and counting [13 May 2012]
        The Green Party has today revealed that the National Government has so far had to borrow an additional $2 billion dollars to fund their 2010 tax cut package for upper income earners.

        The National Government said that their signature 2010 income tax cut package would be ‘fiscally neutral’ — paid for increased revenues from raising GST. That hasn’t happened.

        National’s poor economic decisions have led to record levels of government debt and borrowing.

        In other news, frauds and scams are on the rise…

        Fraud and deception crime nearly doubled through 2022 – Crime and Victims Survey [28 June 2023]

      • georgecom 9.1.2

        if all people worry about is "that nice man Mr Luxon getting me some more" then no they won't. If people want to gauge if Luxon is honest and fiscally competent they would expect him to be open and transparent.

  10. Peter 10

    I see there's a leader's 'debate' on TVOne tonight. It's followed by a BBC game show called 'Would I Lie to You?"

  11. Patricia Bremner 11

    Chippy will be clear and earnest and rational.. I wish him well. Luxon lied about his debating experience, which is a troubling start.

    Luxon will try for a camera friendly 'gottcha', he has been practicing with a coach.

    The questions asked will matter. The way they are asked will matter. Lighting will matter.

    Sound quality will be crucial. Being likeable will matter. TV1 make up will matter. Audience make up will matter.

    Then most important will be the answers.

    Luxon is trying to be perceived as the under dog … yep Tui (and repeating mantras does not work in a debate.)

    Chippy should ask him how many jobs will go? Will GST rise to pay for any tax cut shortfall? (remembering they were not truthful last time)

    • observer 11.1

      The moderator is not Jack Tame, alas. It is Jessica M-M, who lets waffle and weasel words go without challenge. Ideal for Luxon then.

      The exchanges will go something like …

      JMM: "Mr Luxon, you've committed to billions of tax cuts, where will the money come from?"

      Lux: "Look, let me be clear, what I'm saying to you is perfectly clear, rock solid, I've been very clear. "

      JMM: "Thank you".

      Hipkins: "WTF? He hasn't said anything!"

      JMM: "And the next question is on transport …"

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