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Open Mike 19/12/18

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 19th, 2018 - 207 comments
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207 comments on “Open Mike 19/12/18”

  1. tc 1

    Currently exporting as many kWh as we are consuming and still getting a bill each month over $100.

    What incentives exist to alleviate the grid demand when you’re ripped off on the export rate which ends up consumed at retail rates elsewhere from infrastructure the power industry neither built nor maintains. It simply profits from it.

    • mickysavage 1.1

      This needs a big review. If ever there was the opportunity to make our electrical system more sustainable then smart networks with localised solar power being fed into the grid is it.

    • dV 1.2

      Some of that will be lines charge(?).
      We changed to contact to get 17c kWh.
      That didn’t last long. Now 7 or8 for export.

      • Draco T Bastard 1.2.1

        Yep. As soon as the gentailers realised that they could make a profit off of other people’s investment they made sure that they were.

        This is the immorality of capitalism.

    • Spikeyboy 1.3

      If you’re in Nelson/Marlborough try the not for profit Nextgen. I think they do 15c kwh or you can pay for a solar panel to go onto their solar farm and you get the power generated calculated at 1kwh per day every day for a $400 panel. Means you can move house and the power follows you and you can use the power at night. I think they also operate somewhere up north too. They also offer the best rates and you get to nominate your local school for some of the community pay back

      • Sacha 1.3.1

        “you can pay for a solar panel to go onto their solar farm”

        What a great idea – like renting a dedicated server in a datacentre.

      • Draco T Bastard 1.4.1

        Yes, it’s interesting that less demand should result in higher prices isn’t it?

        Surely less demand should result in lower prices. That’s what we’ve always been told about the free-market.

        • shadrach 1.4.1.1

          In reality that depends on the nature of the product or service being sold.

          If the fixed costs of supplying a product or service are high, then if demand drops the suppliers need to recover those same fixed costs over a smaller number of units sold.

          Now if we add to that scenario a product or service that is not discretionary, prices will rise because the consumers need said product or service.

          BTW – the same basic principle applies even in a controlled market. There is still the same total fixed cost to be applied across a lower number of units demanded, and someone has to pay. The difference in a controlled economy is that the state tends to subsidise the product/service and recoup any difference through general taxation.

          • Draco T Bastard 1.4.1.1.1

            BTW – the same basic principle applies even in a controlled market. There is still the same total fixed cost to be applied across a lower number of units demanded, and someone has to pay. The difference in a controlled economy is that the state tends to subsidise the product/service and recoup any difference through general taxation.

            If a service, say power, is supplied by government and paid for through taxes is it actually subsidised? The people using it are still paying for it.

            If the fixed costs of supplying a product or service are high, then if demand drops the suppliers need to recover those same fixed costs over a smaller number of units sold.

            This is a good example here to for power to be a government service. The fixed costs are covered by taxes and thus costs to end user are only there to restrict use which is, of course, the point of the market. Everyone gets an amount free and anything above that is charged for – quite heavily.

            This would prevent energy poverty while also restricting excessive use.

            • shadrach 1.4.1.1.1.1

              “If a service, say power, is supplied by government and paid for through taxes is it actually subsidised? The people using it are still paying for it.”
              That depends on how the government allocates the charges. If it doesn’t apply a ‘user pays’ principle, then there is cross subsidy. And if the charges don’t include a cost of future investment in capacity, then there is an inter-generational subsidy.

              “This is a good example here to for power to be a government service. The fixed costs are covered by taxes and thus costs to end user are only there to restrict use which is, of course, the point of the market. Everyone gets an amount free and anything above that is charged for – quite heavily. This would prevent energy poverty while also restricting excessive use.”
              The problem with the idea that “everyone gets an amount free” is that power is actually not ‘free’. The amount we make ‘free’ is simply a cross subsidy from some to others. From what I have seen of governments of all stripes, that just results in middle class welfare, which is neither just nor efficient.

              • Draco T Bastard

                If it doesn’t apply a ‘user pays’ principle, then there is cross subsidy.

                Society is a constant flow of cross-subsidies. For years Auckland subsidised the rest of the country and now Auckland is maybe being subsidised by the rest of the country.

                Cross subsidies aren’t a problem as long as they’re acknowledged and don’t result in significant problems happening as has happened to Auckland.

                And if the charges don’t include a cost of future investment in capacity, then there is an inter-generational subsidy.

                Obviously, ongoing investment, from taxes, needs to occur.

                BTW, in reality costs can only be levied now. They cannot be put off to the future. This is because the physical resources that are used can only be used in the now. They are a scarce resource that is only available in the now and needs to be distributed now.

                It is part of the delusion of modern ‘economics’ that we can put payment off till the future and that is part of the problem.

                As I say, when you think of the economy in physical terms it takes on a hell of different shape than when thinking of it in monetary terms.

                The real economy is always physical.

                The amount we make ‘free’ is simply a cross subsidy from some to others.

                No it’s not simply because its paid for through taxes. The amount paid in taxes is the democratically agreed amount.

                From what I have seen of governments of all stripes, that just results in middle class welfare, which is neither just nor efficient.

                Everyone gets the same amount. That amount would be enough to run a household on a month to month basis. If anyone chooses to use more then they pay – heavily.

                • shadrach

                  “Cross subsidies aren’t a problem as long as they’re acknowledged…”
                  In general terms I disagree. Cross subsidies hide the true cost to the beneficiaries of such subsidies, and can result in poor use of resources. My view it is in most cases ‘user pays’ produces the optimum result.

                  “Obviously, ongoing investment, from taxes, needs to occur.”
                  Ongoing investment should be funded by current and future users of the product/service in the quantum of use. User pays.

                  “BTW, in reality costs can only be levied now. They cannot be put off to the future. This is because the physical resources that are used can only be used in the now. They are a scarce resource that is only available in the now and needs to be distributed now.”
                  Not so. Physical resources, even scarce resources, can be used until they are depleted, not just in the now, and so the costs of their extraction/deployment can (and should) be recovered over the life of those resources. Power generation is a classic example. The cost of building a hydro power network is not levied in the now; it is built into future revenues as all consumers pay for those costs based on their usage.

                  “It is part of the delusion of modern ‘economics’ that we can put payment off till the future and that is part of the problem.”
                  That is not a ‘delusion’, it is reality. We cannot recover the cost of major capital works without doing so over the life of the asset/resource. It is exactly the same in a command economy, where state investment is funded over several years of taxation.

                  “No it’s not simply because its paid for through taxes. The amount paid in taxes is the democratically agreed amount.”
                  Just because it is a “democratically agreed amount” doesn’t mean it is not a cross subsidy. Progressive taxes, by their very nature, are a cross subsidy, because in the end some pay proportionately more than others.

                  “Everyone gets the same amount. That amount would be enough to run a household on a month to month basis. If anyone chooses to use more then they pay – heavily.”
                  I understand what you mean, I just don’t see giving something away free as an efficient or effective way to deploy resources. I can give you a number of examples, but a current one that springs to mind is the fees free policy, that is funding wealthy peoples children’s first year at university, while the government under funds far greater needs.

    • Ed1 1.5

      I raised the issue of the difference between the normal electricity charge and the rate given for exported power, with a friend who is an electrical engineer. He said that the main grid is not designed to get electricity fed back; something to do with inverters that means that not all of the power fed back is useable to the system. I’d like to know more about that – according to him the rates offered are not quite the ripoff they appear. It must be possible to use generation however as solar and wind farms are worthwhile, but I do not understand why we do not use water power in streams and rivers more than we do – particularly for local communities where there are bridges over rivers etc.

      • Descendant Of Smith 1.5.1

        And I’m not sure why power companies would be expected to pay you a higher rate than it costs them to generate electricity themselves. Hydro is low cost generation, solar costs more. You’re only ever going to get paid the hydro rate otherwise they would be subsidising your “investment”.

        • Draco T Bastard 1.5.1.1

          Actually, the rate retailers should be paying is the wholesale rate that changes every half hour. It’s what they pay every other generator and householders shouldn’t be treated as special just because they’re retail customers.

      • tc 1.5.2

        I’ve been told that’s a bs argument by lines engineers. They’re built to be dynamic with flow and domestic solar is governed by the approved inverter.

        They laugh that one off.

        • mpledger 1.5.2.1

          Yea, if it’s good enough to be used by our household appliances, how does it suddenly become unusable when it goes into the grid.

  2. ScottGN 2

    Surprise, surprise. No one from the National Party would front on Morning Report this morning to discuss the Thompson & Clark spying debacle at Southern Response which occurred under the last government.

    • Ed 2.1

      A tip for RNZ.
      Every time a Nat comes for an interview about anything, bring the subject up.

      • Rapunzel 2.1.1

        That is a good tip and a further question should be why only a partial release of a phone conversation came from National Party hands yesterday, the context and why they have it but do not release it all is very questionable – it amounts ot lying by omission. The media is still certainly not asking them the hard questions, if they were to follow up on your tip Bridges would quickly go to ground.

        • Cinny 2.1.1.1

          Agree Rapunzel, re the partial conversation.

          And did you see their dodgy tweet re Nathan Kraastskow?

          “Nathan Kraastskow had a bright future that was stolen away. The depth of feeling from NZers about the sentencing of Rouxle Le Roux is clear – 140,000+ NZers want it appealed. The @nznationalparty was privileged to meet Nathan’s family today & accept the petition on their behalf.”

          And they were slayed in the responses, for using a tragedy for their own political gain while omitting certain facts….

          “The petition was accepted by a bipartisan group of @NZNationalParty and @nzlabour MPs. This distorted attempt to take political advantage of a grieving family and a sensitive issue is disgraceful.”

          • Rapunzel 2.1.1.1.1

            Yes I heard that this morning, from many quarters there is a concerted effort to distort what ever passes for “facts” – I have never been a “National” fan but find than disturbing the efforts to plaster over the cracks in the National facade as seemingly every one of their utterances are accepted, if not abetted, by most of NZ media. When it is to prop up someone as self-interested and lacking in self-awareness as the weak Simon Bridges who will put “career” before everything else and most certainly the people of NZ it is quite revolting.

        • Puckish Rogue 2.1.1.2

          Yeah exactly this, the media should be concentrating on what the opposition party is doing and not what Labour is doing

          https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/109405849/government-delays-release-of-controversial-immigration-information-on-karel-sroubek

          Its not important what the governing party is doing no its important what the opposition is doing because its the opposition thats in charge

          Who cares if a drug dealer got residency, who cares if the drug dealers friend is a personal friend of the PM, its no big deal if the drug dealers friend texts the PM to congratulate her because everyone has her phone number thats not whats important its what National knows and isn’t telling

          Simon Bridges, the opposition leader, should come clean with everything he knows about this case because thats where the issue is, not what the PM knows, not what the immigration minister did, not the connection between the drug dealer, the drug dealers friend and the PM

          Why are the media not going after National about this, its a disgrace!

          • Rapunzel 2.1.1.2.1

            Yeah, well you can coin it which ever way you want and I see it as I do and that is that the National Party mock NZers every time they use heresay, supposition and tragedy to their own political ends. Do you have the facts? If so post them and not innuendo.

            • Puckish Rogue 2.1.1.2.1.1

              “Do you have the facts? If so post them and not innuendo.”

              I read between the lines 🙂

              But seriously its a bit hard to come up with the facts when the PM won’t release the texts and the government delay the release of the requests from office of the OIA

              #bethemostopenmosttransparentGovernmentthatNewZealandhaseverhad

              However you’re right in one thing, and that is National know more, the questioning around this issue was, at the start, fairly wide but now the questioning is becoming more specific

              If (and its a still a big if at the moment) anything was to come of this then Simon Bridges performance in the house will likely see him gain in respect as his dogged style of not giving up is something NZers can respect

              Of course the flip side is if nothing comes from it then he’ll be seen as not being able to think for himself, just blindly following a script and having no clue in general

              • Rapunzel

                Why didn’t they release the full phone call and why as “good citizens” did they not raise the issues that have now been put before the public to the minister dealing with the appeal?

                • Puckish Rogue

                  Because National are the opposition so its their job to hold the government to account on our behalf and theres a lot of people who would like to know exactly why a drug dealer got residency

                  Plus the bonus is that in trying to draw this out as long as they can because the longer they can the worse Jacinda looks

                  National are being helped in this by Labour delaying the information they have which makes Jacinda look like she has something to hide

                  I’m not sure why, habit perhaps or not knowing any better but whatever it is their best course of action from here is to release all the information then the public will see theres nothing there and we all move on with Jacindas reputation intact and Simons lowered even more

                  Unless there is something there…

                  • Rapunzel

                    National are not being “helped” by this at all because along with other petitions, “promises of help” and the full report on abuses within their party – are you seriously still trying to maintain they did not know of the behviours – it is clear that the National Party is their main priority and not NZers or NZ.

          • Wayne 2.1.1.2.2

            Puckish rogue
            Don’t be absurd. The media is always going to concentrate more on the government than the opposition. After all it is the government that has the power to affect our lives. “Truth to power” and all of that.

      • SaveNZ 2.1.2

        Yep they could lure the Natz in with a fake subject like Jacinda and her txts and then wham, hit them with their spying records… Bridges can barely managed to stay on script without screwing it up, imagine if he had to Ad Lib. The ratings!!!

        • Puckish Rogue 2.1.2.1

          I’d hope this never occurs, it’d be a massive sign of bad faith and politicians of all sides would probably then be very leery of having anything to do with that journalist, or the journalists organisation

          I do admit its a very tempting thought but as much fun as it would be to watch an opposition minister squirm you’d then have to watch minister of your own party get the treatment as well

          Also the minister when then probably just say something like “you said we’d be talking about this subject, I’ll have to get back to you on the other subject”

          • Cinny 2.1.2.1.1

            Tune in to Question Time today and find out more?

          • Graeme 2.1.2.1.2

            That’s pretty much what RNZ and Espiner did to Key when dirty politics broke. Key was flapping around like a flounder in the boat. I ran into an ex Nat minister I know fairly well a couple of hours later, he was not happy and pining for the Muldoon days when the PM could have had the offending journo sacked forthwith.

      • Tc 2.1.3

        That would mean being like actual journalists…..Not happening at tame RNZ.

  3. Ankerrawshark 3

    https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/18-12-2018/talking-to-our-young-men-may-unlock-answers-to-the-grace-millane-tragedy/

    I find this a deeply problematic article and how this woman describes these 16 year old boys, well my god they can’t win. The say violence towards women isn’t ok and her retort in the article is a bit like a Tui add. Do we even know how these young man have gone on to behave (only two years ago I admit)……wouldn’t young males in a group talk session be a little inclined to bravado. Her final clanger is she thinks these boys saying they need to protect young women is incidious. Ffs. If I was a man I would be pretty bloody angry about this bad research being extrapolated to account for the death of Grace Millane. And I am a feminist

    We should start not with men trying to solve this problem, other than taking responsibility for themselves, but the pms science advisor. Please.

    Overwhelming the men who physical abuse their partners or murders come from abusive backgrounds and have either boarderline, anti social or narcissistic personality disorder. They very often abuse substances. Unless things have altered most murders are carried out by men aged 18 – 24 and more men are murdered than women. These are the people we need to target. Changing attitudes to women is a good cause, but it ain’t going to solve the problems with violence we have. I will post a high quality research article soon.

    • Marcus Morris 3.1

      Exactly forty years ago (December 1st 1978) “Scream Quietly or the Neighbors Will Hear” was published. Its subject was the history of women who lived or were living in abusive relationships. A salient point from the book was the that situations it “reported” cut right across the social strata and I doubt that much has changed in the intervening years. I have been privy to a case where a man who was considered a pillar of his community physically and brutally mistreated his wife on frequent occasions. The fact that so many men continue to “get away” with this behaviour is that their wives live in fear of extreme retaliation if they report the behaviour to any authority – how often do we hear the police response to a murdered woman inquiry “the victim was known to her attacker”.

  4. Ankerrawshark 4

    https://www.researchinpsychotherapy.org/index.php/rpsy/article/view/241/185

    Anyone wanting to understand about domestic violence and what we can do should read this article. This is the problem we are dealing with. Please Jan Logie talk to our science advisor to find out what interventions are our best chance of changing this.

    • RedLogix 4.1

      Hi. Thanks for this, an interesting read especially the Discussion section. One quote that stood out for me:

      In Anglo Saxon countries and at an international level, most protocols and policies concerning domestic violence advocate use of the Duluth Model. This model uses a feminist informed, gender-based analysis of domestic violence, making use of psycho-educational techniques. It focuses on male perpetrators and female victims. It does not advocate relationship counselling, and directs men to take total responsibility for the violent relationship. Generally, these models have received criticism because of lack of research evidence, and because they pay little attention to bi-directional violence or women as perpetrators and even less to gay and lesbian domestic violence.

      This is of course a bit selective on my part; the whole paper says a lot more than this.

      Overall it attempts to explore some of the alternative strategies that are being tried, Cognitive Behaviour Therapy and Couples psychodynamics. Equally these approaches have yet to be shown as obviously successful either. Dissapointingly:

      Therapeutic interventions instead have received longstanding criticism due to their tendency to consider violence as a symptom of problems rooted in childhood experiences, and the lack of importance given to gender and therefore to a socio political reading of the phenomena (psychodynamic approach) or because they appear to resolve themselves in a superficial acquisition of techniques that do not produce any true change (cognitive-behavioral approach).

      I’m not sure I understand all of the jargon, but in summary it’s not clear to me exactly what the takeaway message is supposed to be. It clearly suggests that we have yet to find an effective toolkit that can be generally rolled out to treat both victims and perpetrators of IPV, but I don’t see any obvious recommendations either. The final para states:

      To understand the history of these women and to carry out an in depth study on how these factors may influence the development of a condition is fundamental because it would help to view these women not just as passive victims, and also to avoid the mechanism of viewing them as women who are asking for it.

      I had to read that several times to decode it, but yes it feels like this is pointing in the right direction.

      • Ankerrawshark 4.1.1

        Thanks for reading this article red logic.

        I don’t think there are any easy solutions to these complex problems but we have to keep trying and in my opinion stop barking up the wrong tree, no matter how well intentioned that is. That’s why I advocate we should get the pms science advisor involved so we have the best chance of addressing these problems

        Professor Kate Davidson Glasgow University did some encouraging work with violence offenders, an adaptive version of cbt, with some encouraging results. She visited NZ and we invited corrections who failed to attend. The science advisor should look into all the work that has been done to find out what our best shot at solving this is.

        • RedLogix 4.1.1.1

          I made a response below to gw about Project K which I’d equally address to you.

          Maybe I’m biased by my own experience as a young man; without delving into irrelevant personal stuff, I can say that spending a LOT of time in the bush and mountains had a huge impact on me at many levels.

          In hindsight it wasn’t the whole story; I remained quite naive and vulnerable in terms of social awareness and skills, but crucially the ability to face risk, deal with discomfort and hardship, plan and execute difficult trips, and persevere when things went wrong, turned out to be the exactly the skills which I’ve relied upon all the rest of my life.

          Without over-egging the distinction here I’m of the view that young men and women do face subtly different challenges. Young women by nature possess an inherent social value as potential mothers; they are innately valued by society not just for who they are, but for the future generations they represent. This brings it’s own set of challenges for women around getting their life sorted so that they can have a family while the biological window of opportunity is open.

          By contrast young men have almost no inherent social value, unless and until they can show themselves to be competent and successful at something. This isn’t an easy task for many, indeed a real fraction of men simply never achieve this. But fundamentally for young men the challenge is performative; we are the gender which is expected to be innovative, risk-taking, self-sacrificing and sometimes tragically disposable. Coming to terms with this is something we rarely if ever talk about among ourselves; it’s a lonely path most men tread in silence.

          Early days … I’m not pretending I know the way here; just an old tatty map and some fuzzy contour lines than look promising. 🙂

          • Ankerrawshark 4.1.1.1.1

            Hi red logic, in keeping with what you said about learning bush skills and perseverance, I think the stuff from the Dunedin longitudinal study and having good self control at age 3(can be learnt taught latter) might be a key to some of this. I
            Those who had good self control fared better in terms of health and social outcomes including criminality

    • greywarshark 4.2

      Understanding domestic violence from this report requires a lot of reading. But basically it appears that a poor standard of childhood with violence, perhaps sexual maltreatment, lack of support, lack of good role modelling, leads to depression in the adult, risk of sexual mistreatment, almost an acceptance of it as the natural way that females are treated, and numerous other illnesses.

      Violence against the many women seems to come from everywhere, with closely related men being the minority, according to this:
      The report also details that globally as many as 38% of murders of women are committed by an intimate partner (World Health Organization, 2013).
      So 62% of women murders are not from partners or closely related. and the partners not able to prevent it.

      It has been said over and over, that the answer to life, a fairly happy, good life that is, comes from having had a good start with good parenting and being able to learn what you need to know, have good role models, be taught and observe fair treatment and personal standards then applying those to treatment of others. If a parent hasn’t had such a childhood themself, then it is hard to bring this sort of srelationship to life. When there is a new liberal people-despising culture pervading society then it doesn’t happen. That is why we have these awful statistics all over the world. People-despising governments and controllers, and money and authoritarian control from the powerful is their drive.

      Answer, love and respect your young people, when into child-starting age, give them training in what the basics for good parenting and self management are, and have an open door so they can freely ask for help that can be sourcing resources, advice, mediation and counselling, helping with answers to questions, and it would be good for poorer people, twice a year holiday camps at outdoor activity areas. These are such bright spots for many in their lives, and the parents could have workshops on subjects that cause them worry while the children have trained guides for their activities. Things would turn around in NZ, not immediately as there are decades of bad conditions to rise above, but in a decade the trend line would sink sharply.

      When women are strong in themselves, they make better choices with partners, partners behave better because they won’t be such failures who then take their frustration out on their women. The children have a good female and male role model. No-one grows up twisted and there is less violence, and less nastiness from parents who respect themselves, and respect their children, and can talk through their problems, so the whole family copes in a problem-solving way not a venting frustration and the hate from a diseased society channelling through anger to their own nearest and dearest.

      It’s so ugly at present, we have to change it, the whole kaupapa is to do that and care about the young, with the information from research, not just having bad research being presented with shocked cries, which are repeated after more talking and researching and shock, at present an apparently endless iteration.
      By the way Russell Brown this morning said that ‘kindness’ had become a noticeably frequent and important word. That’s a bright star to look at in our dark night. Did you ever look up the night sky as a child and say, “Star light, star bright, first star I see tonight, Wish I may, wish I might, Get the wish I wish tonight”? Let’s go back to the naive things, the belief that good things can happen, if we wish and continue with real work for it, enough to make it happen.

      • RedLogix 4.2.1

        For what it’s worth I’ve long had a great deal of admiration for Project K:

        https://dinglefoundation.org.nz/project-k/

        Here is a link to their evaluation research this year:

        Click to access Research-Evaluation-Annual-Projects-Summary-March-2018.pdf

        This to my mind is the type of activity which positively shapes young people’s lives. While the Project is absolutely open and works for both genders; it’s long been my contention that for young men, the most critical factors which determine their life path are twofold; one is learning self-control and the ability to delay gratification, and the other is finding something that they can be successful at.

        Put these two thing together and you build men who have the strength and confidence to face the difficulties of life, including the ones they will encounter in their intimate relationships, without resort to lashing out in weakness, anger and shame.

        This is exactly what Project K is directly aimed at.

  5. Spikeyboy 5

    Not so long ago I was banned for saying that the USA had illegally invaded Syria and established bases in that country. I didnt think I was saying anything controversial but apparently with bases size really does matter. Even tried to supply some references from Reuters and Newsweek after the fact but to no avail. Anyhow,now from the New Yorker

    “The United States has built a dozen or more bases from Manbij to Al-Hasakah, including four airfields, and American-backed forces now control all of Syria east of the Euphrates, an area about the size of Croatia.”

    Last time I was in Croatia it was pretty big so I guess this hasn’t just sprung up over night?

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/dispatch/is-the-trump-administration-pivoting-the-fight-in-syria-toward-a-war-with-iran

    • Ed 5.1

      Thank you spikeyboy.

    • Wayne 5.2

      Well, as you say American backed forces. Also known as The Kurds. Why is that news to you?
      The Kurds have been the main population in that part of Syria and Norther Iraq for centuries. They would like their own state, or at least autonomous region. That have had that in Iraq for nearly 30 years. Looks like they will get that in north east Syria as well. Turkey is not happy, and it is the main reason for strained relations between the US and Turkey.

      • Spikeyboy 5.2.1

        Thats funny Wayne. You sound a bit like a politician. I didnt say US backed I said US bases. I also said tha it wasnt news to me but might be news to some people at The Standard who have denied this and taken extreme umbrage at the suggeston. I only use the New Yorker as a reference because it reduces the histeria about what is or isnt propaganda

        • Wayne 5.2.1.1

          There is specific UNSC authorisation for the war against ISIS in Syria. That was why the bases were established, so not illegal.
          The US and NATO has several thousand special forces engaged in the war against ISIS in Syria. Obviously they need bases in Syria from which to conduct operations. This is no surprise to anyone.
          The issue for the future is when ISIS is fully defeated (not far off) is that the legal justification for the bases will then be absent.

          • Gabby 5.2.1.1.1

            You reckon it’ll turn out that ISIS was Assad all along wayney?

          • francesca 5.2.1.1.2

            Could you point me to that please Wayne?
            I’m pretty sure Russia and China have blocked any such resolutions
            Are you talking about UNSC resolution 2249 by chance?
            Because thats not an authorisation as such

            and this Chatham House study suggests there is no legal basis for uninvited foreign troops in Syria

            https://www.chathamhouse.org/expert/comment/assessing-legal-basis-uk-military-action-syria

            • Wayne 5.2.1.1.2.1

              francesca

              Yes, it is UNSC resolution 2249 (2015) which I was referring to. It “calls upon states that have the capacity to do so to take all necessary measures” to deal to ISIS.

              I appreciate there is some ambiguity with the resolution, as is common with these kinds of resolutions. The resolution can mean different things to different states. However, the inclusion of the words “all necessary measures” was the key for the US and allies to use military force against ISIS.

              The resolution was proposed by France, which has deployed forces, so they obviously thought it gave permission to talker military measures against ISIS.

              I need to work out how to do links!

              • francesca

                Plenty of legal advice says that resolution does not permit foreign troops to breach Syrian sovereignty (UN recognised)of Syria and enter without proper authorisation by the Syrian govt.
                This is upheld by the UN charter as regards state sovereignty

                https://www.globalresearch.ca/german-parliament-us-presence-in-syria-is-illegal/5647305

                https://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/the-dangers-of-our-illegal-military-presence-in-syria/

                We (NZ) are in Iraq by invitation
                We are not in Syria because we haven’t been invited

                • Wayne

                  francesca,

                  I think when you say “plenty of legal advice”, I think you mean legal opinion.

                  If a state loses control of its territory to a group that is undertaking terror attacks on other states, and is unwilling or unable to act, it is not necessary to wait for that state to invite the other states in before they can take action to defend themselves.

                  The US and the Nato states, plus other allies, have all invoked self-defence. Europe in particular was being beset by ISIS terrorist attacks originating from the so-called ISIS state in Syria. ISIS was also slaughtering large numbers of people in Syria as well as Iraq. International law doesn’t require a state just to accept a situation of being attacked, and be unable to act if the host state of the terrorists does not act.

                  France and other UNSC states drafted resolution 2249 in such a way that they could invoke the law of self defence in implementing “all necessary measures”. The way 2249 was drafted avoided a China veto, but 2249 did not require China to explicitly endorse military action. China felt it had been misled over the Libya resolutions, so was being more circumspect in 2015 over ISIS. I would note that in the Gulf War 1990 and Afghanistan in 2001 there were more specific UNSC resolutions.

                  • Ed

                    And you believe that imperialist nonsense.

                    • Wayne

                      Yes, I think it pretty obvious ISIS had to be defeated. They were too great a threat.

                      If ISIS had simply wanted to be an Islamic state and nothing more, they would still be a state today.

                  • francesca

                    The US was never in imminent danger on its own territory from ISIS, so its claim of self defence has absolutely no validity.
                    What we are seeing here playing out is the US flouting international law because it can, it has the military and economic heft, and any number of quislings who will give it diplomatic cover

              • Spikeyboy

                The Nuremberg trials decribed wars of aggression as the ultimate evil. When did all necessary measures include this ultimate evil? When a law is meant to overide a law with such strong moral and legal precedent it must specify this. Dealing with terrorism only includes such evil in yours and other imperialst apologists minds. It doesnt make it a fact.

                • Wayne

                  The war against ISIS is not war of aggression, it is a war of self defence.

                  The UN resolution 2249 was unanimous. The military coalition against ISIS has over 50 states in it.

                  But then spikeyboy, I also assume you think Syria (under Assad) has never used chemical weapons.

                  • Tricledrown

                    IsIs grew out of US invasion and subsequent withdrawal of Iraq leaving a power vacuum of the puppet highly corrupt regimes the US installed. ISIS used US weapons and money to get a foot hold a poorly trained and paid Iraqi army was a push over.
                    ISIS got pushed back in Iraq so filled a power vacuum in Syria then Russia pushed them back mainly along with Turkey, the Kurds, Assad another Pootin puppet. But to think ISIS is defeated it is a joke.

                    • Wayne

                      Basically all of what you said is correct. ISIS would never have got a start without the US invasion of Iraq.

                      As for ISIS being defeated, well it is in the sense of being defeated in its own proto state. It is now a typical terrorist organisation operating in the shadows, which then becomes primarily a target for intelligence services and police operations. As opposed to requiring military force to defeat it in its proto state.

      • francesca 5.2.2

        No
        The Kurds have not been the majority in that part of Syria
        Here is coverage of an Amnesty report
        http://www.rudaw.net/english/analysis/21012016

        And the US has established bases in Kurdish held areas…..not just talking about Kurds here
        Spikeyboy is quite right , and was in his original post

        https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/syria.htm

        • McFlock 5.2.2.1

          Spikeyboy got four weeks because he was making claims of fact he couldn’t back up.

          • Brigid 5.2.2.1.1

            Which he now has done.
            This means that his claim was fact when he made it. It hasn’t suddenly become fact.
            I don’t expect Spikeboy will get an apology from the administrator

            Of course what is really really strange is that lprent provided a link that proved Spikeyboy’s claim

            • Macro 5.2.2.1.1.1

              When some one gets a jail sentence for committing an offence, the offence that they committed doesn’t simply vanish when their sentence is completed. Yes they have served their debt to society and now it is time to move on – but you can’t make that offence disappear simply by sending someone to jail.
              Lprent banned Spikeyboy for 4 weeks because he refused to back up his assertions with evidence. That was the offence. That offence didn’t go away because he has served his sentence. So your claim:
              “Which he now has done.
              This means that his claim was fact when he made it. It hasn’t suddenly become fact.
              I don’t expect Spikeboy will get an apology from the administrator”

              Firstly does not follow.
              And secondly – Is somewhat illogical to say the least.

              • Spikeyboy

                Actually I did reply to lprent with some references to US bases by Reuters and Newsweek but these were apparently deemed unfit for publication

            • te reo putake 5.2.2.1.1.2

              Wrong, I’m afraid, Bridget. Spikeyboy has proven nothing and his ban (which was for promoting a false meme, btw) was perfectly legit. There are no US military bases in Syria. There are facilities and airfields, but not bases.

              Arguing on this subject with a moderator who actually knows about military stuff is obviously foolish and I can only assume that LPrent is so full of the joys of the season that he’s cutting Spikeboy some slack today. I wouldn’t assume that charity will last forever.

              • francesca

                Oh come on , read the links.
                The US has a well documented base in Al Tanf

                https://www.crisisgroup.org/trigger-list/iran-us-trigger-list/flashpoints/al-tanf-syria

                And 2 more being built as we speak
                https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/syria/u-s-seen-setting-up-two-new-bases-in-syria-1.5977259
                not to mention the air bases

                https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/syria.htm

                The original banning of Spikey involved weaselly semantics.And anyway,
                whether an entrenched military presence in a given area is a base or not is somewhat academic in the context of the discussion
                garrison, outpost, base who cares?
                geranium , pelargonium, spud, potato??

                • Accuracy was the whole point of the moderation. Trying to win a battle about military terms with an ex soldier while armed only with faulty pedantry was never going to work. Spikeyboy got it wrong, is still getting it wrong and you getting it wrong as well changes nothing. There are no US bases in Syria.

                  There are a number of facilities however. They are mostly, as far as I can tell, run for and with the locals, rather than run for the US Department of Defence.

                  If you want to argue against the TS moderators right to moderate as they see fit, feel free. But I’d advise checking the FAQ’s first to see how that will end up.

                  • francesca

                    on a blog such as this,which is most definitely
                    not an academic or military journal , I would have thought a simple dictionary definition would suffice

                    https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/military-base

                    but have it your way

                  • Dennis Frank

                    Respondents can’t easily grasp the notion of a military base as a technical term rather than colloquial. It was new to me – never had to think about it before. I presume they become part of the USA for the duration of the lease? In terms of sovereignty & international law, I mean.

                    Often puzzled me that the USA can maintain one in a hostile foreign country: Cuba. They pay four thousand dollars per year to the Cuban govt according to Wikipedia, for that privilege. Funny how the 1903 lease has no expiry date included. Clever buggers eh? I don’t mean the Cubans! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_Naval_Base

                    • There’s some folk I know who make the same point about the lack of an expiry date on te tiriti 😉

                    • Macro

                      There’s some folk I know who make the same point about the lack of an expiry date on te tiriti 😉

                      Exactly!
                      I know of one historic building in this town where the local iwi get the princely sum of ($2) 1 pound per annum for the lease.

                    • francesca

                      It was said that only once was the cheque cashed… by accident
                      Every year Fidel ripped the cheque up

                  • Spikeyboy

                    Great to have you in on the debate trp and great to have you so strongly supporting the imperialists. Id be worried if I was on the same side as you. On the subject of weasely words you take the cake with your verbal diarrhea wrt Julian Assange. You wouldnt have a clue what it means to be courageous nor what a moral or principle looked like if you fell over it. Your pathetic arse licking behaviour rightly revolts any sane person with an ounce of human feeling.

                    [Banned until the USA opens a military base in Syria. Given the news from the White House this morning about troop withdrawals, that could be a very, very long time. TRP]

        • francesca 5.2.2.2

          Joe,
          about Article 5, yes, but it was Afghanistan, said to be harbouring Bin Laden that was attacked

          it hasn’t been invoked in Syria

          “It has been invoked only once in NATO history: by the United States after the September 11 attacks in 2001. The invocation was confirmed on 4 October 2001, when NATO determined that the attacks were indeed eligible under the terms of the North Atlantic Treaty.”
          And Nato’s presence in Afghanistan didnt work out so well , not a surprise Article 5 hasnt been invoked in Syria

  6. Rosemary McDonald 6

    Published quietly and would have been missed had I not known it was imminent is the report into the targeted engagement on Funded Family Care.

    https://www.health.govt.nz/publication/targeted-engagement-funded-family-care-and-paid-family-care

    There are two documents to download and should be read in conjunction with the earlier report from the same source. http://carers.net.nz/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Paid-Family-Care-Discussion-Paper-FINAL-24-April-2018.pdf

    Brief mention on Natrad.

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018676237/unpaid-families-funded-family-care-policy-needs-to-be-ditched

    The Part 4 amendment to the Public Health and Disability Act must be repealed. It concerns me greatly that despite all three coalition parties trumpeting just that line pre-election, as yet this has not happened.

    Also what has not happened is the reveal of the redacted sections of the RIS that accompanied that piece of legislative treachery.

    Open and Transparent Government? Yeah, right.

    SSDD.

  7. greywarshark 7

    Kindness is the word of the year according to an individual survey by Russell Brown – others were woke (which I have just learned the meaning of), Brexit is up there, e-scooters and Lime, – last item before 9 a.m.Radionz news.

  8. Bearded Git 8

    Re Mickey’s post on electricity above…there is a chance for the coalition to set the pace on solar power..wasn’t climate change supposed to be central for Labour? There are such a tiny percentage of houses with solar power in Central Otago…incentives needed.

    • Graeme 8.1

      “There are such a tiny percentage of houses with solar power in Central Otago…”

      You can thank our beloved lines company, or Dunedin Stadium, for that. I’ve heard of a couple of instances where backload has been refused due to network issues.

      In Whakatipu provision of local generation is critical. We have less than 5% local generation and one Transpower feed through the mountains from Cromwell, loose that through tectonics, weather or nefarious activity and Queenstown’s fucked. On the wrong day that could be 100,000 people to evacuate

  9. SaveNZ 9

    This is shocking news for public health and intensive dairying in areas that there should not be!

    Kidney failure-causing pathogen found in Canterbury rivers

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/environment/378607/kidney-failure-causing-pathogen-found-in-canterbury-rivers

    • Enough 9.1

      “These test results show that the sheer number of cows on the Canterbury Plains and in areas like Southland and Taranaki are creating not just environmental problems but also human health issues.”

  10. millsy 10

    So how many Chinese millionaires with links to the organised crime syndicates in that country have been granted residency by National? And they are all worked up about some low level street hood.

  11. SaveNZ 11

    Stupid options that help people that can manipulate their finances aka the super rich.

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/366876/two-options-proposed-for-taxing-capital-gain

    Yep another “proposal” that helps the increasing amount of crims in NZ be untaxed, the super rich and the satellite family but targets honest middle class to make the growing inequality and divide wider….

    Any talk of capital gains is pretty much election suicide but even worse when it seems to be aimed directly at middle class voters.

    If government want tax money than do it fairly that can not be manipulated, aka a stamp duty on every house of business over a certain amount would both bring in an enormous amount of taxes but also be fair.

    It would also fairly tax the ‘family’ mansion of people who call a 30 million residence as their family home and satellite families while also curbing prices escalating upwards especially if you had the stamp duty starting at a certain price point aka over $650k or over $5 million… so they just catch richer folks out and encourage more affordable offerings to be built.

  12. bwaghorn 12

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/109458348/death-threats-for-hitandrun-driver-rouxle-le-roux

    I hope national and that scum bag mitchell are hanging there heads in shame . They’ve used lies and half truths to throw this woman to the wolves.
    Fuck you national I hate you more today than I ever have .

    • Stunned Mullet 12.1

      ?

      • bwaghorn 12.1.1

        mitchell has been running round using this story to get air time . Hes conveniently forgotten to mention that the boy crossed a red light .
        The worst thing the woman has done in this story is panicked and left the scene .
        Nothing but a carrion crow.

        • Gabby 12.1.1.1

          Wonder how many kids Merco Mitch has killed.

        • Ankerrawshark 12.1.1.2

          Agree about this bwaghorn

        • Muttonbird 12.1.1.3

          +1.

          11pm. Pitch black. No helmet. Ear plugs in. Runs red light. Moron kid.

          I suspect that’s why the sentence is light compared to others when the driver has fled the scene.

          Not enough for Mark Mitchell though. He’s got to throw someone on the fire for political purposes. How about Mitchell re-listens to Finlayson’s speech where he says the line between parliament and the justice system must not be crossed.

          • Ed 12.1.1.3.1

            If Mark Mitchell ever gets near the levers of power, New Zealand will become a very ugly little country.

            • bwaghorn 12.1.1.3.1.1

              He’ll make collins look like a good option for this country

            • Muttonbird 12.1.1.3.1.2

              Yep. If he’s allowed anywhere near the justice or police portfolios particularly, Thompson & Clark will seem like kindergarten play.

              Look at the poison he’s been promoting while in opposition.

            • Draco T Bastard 12.1.1.3.1.3

              That’s true of almost everyone who looks to become or is a National MP.

              • Ed

                Well they are mercenaries of tobacco companies, liquor corporations and fossil fuel multinationals.
                But Mitchell as a war mercenary is something more extreme.

          • SaveNZ 12.1.1.3.2

            That is pretty harsh Muttonbird, victim blaming. Poor kid was only 15 and a student at Vanguard Military Academy on a push bike, at least he was not stoned and drunk with mates in their Mercedes.

            Not sure if there were independent witnesses but that 15 yo kid is dead and not able to say his side of the story and I’m sure her lawyers had a field day with the spin.

        • Herodotus 12.1.1.4

          What crap you espouse “The worst thing the woman has done in this story is panicked and left the scene .”
          NO the worst thing was that her actions resulted in a death.
          then her follow up actions
          “But the next day, Le Roux’s mum and Sam first went to a panel beater to seek advice about what to do with the damaged car.”
          https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12176781

          Then she was given a reduced sentence due to “However, the judge did accept Le Roux was genuinely remorseful. ”
          yet here a different sentence for a similar hit and run
          “A man who killed a teenage skateboarder in a hit-and-run in west Auckland has been sentenced to up to four years in prison.”
          https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/337249/driver-jailed-over-auckland-hit-and-run

          • bwaghorn 12.1.1.4.1

            There’s no doubt she should have stopped . Dummy .
            There’s know doubt she should have gone to court .
            She got found guilty and sentenced in case your to slow to have worked it out .
            From there the shit scum nats and proxies have risen their ugly heads.
            Do you want kangaroo court justice?
            Lynching in the street maybe. ??

            • Herodotus 12.1.1.4.1.1

              I never intimated anything like kangaroo court/lynching.
              What is wrong with going thru the process of seeking a review of the sentence handed down ?

              There is also no doubt that there was a lot of effort made to cover up the actions as well. So there was intent to minimise/cover up what had happened after the event.

              “Le Roux’s group of friends later saw news reports of someone having died from the crash, while Le Roux’s mother told her daughter to get some rest before going to police in the morning.
              But the next day, Le Roux’s mum and Sam first went to a panel beater to seek advice about what to do with the damaged car.
              Some 16 hours later, Le Roux and both her passengers went to police.”

              • aom

                Since when was a petition soliciting the signatures of the uninformed “going thru the process of seeking a review of the sentence handed down ?” The appropriate process was for the prosecuting agency to make the relevant application if the sentence could be considered to be manifestly unjust. Consequently, it is fair to conclude and the likes of the probable war criminal Mark Mitchell, are supportive of kangaroo courts Herodotus.

          • greywarshark 12.1.1.4.2

            It is interesting how quickly people jump to strong opinions without thinking. The self righteous don’t have to think, because they know they always adopt the moral attitude, take the right tone, and from their lofty position judge all others. There is more than one way of viewing anything.

            So Herodotus and of course Naki man jump on bwaghorn at 12.1.1 who was simple-mindedly trying to pare down the parts of the sad event of the death of a cyclist to the basics, and commented critically on Mitchell’s public sympathy which seems phony in the context of his past history.

            The cyclist’s death was largely brought about by his careless lack of responsibility in riding through a red light into the path of oncoming cars, while wearing headphones which meant he wasn’t aware of his surroundings or following the road rules put in place to keep road users safe. He certainly didn’t learn self-responsibility well at his military academy.

            Unfortunately a hapless young woman is now treated as a murderer, and has been knocked sideways by the blame heaped on her, it apparently is all her fault because she had been using intoxicating drugs. She has gone OTT in her responses to this unhappy situation, which the social media encourages. Most of the young people on social media seem to be more interested in theatricals than being informed on serious matters, and she has played into this zeitgeist.

            …Le Roux’s lawyer Belinda Sellars QC said her client was sorry and had since required hospitalisation for mental health problems.

            She said Le Roux had also been the victim of online bullying. She said at the time her client’s name was suppressed but someone contacted her classmates, told them about the case and told them not to graduate with her. She said her client’s alcohol and cannabis levels weren’t known, she had been driving 11km an hour over the speed limit and she didn’t see Nathan.
            “She will regret this for the rest of her life.”

            Nathan was wearing headphones, failed to stop for the red signal and wasn’t wearing a bike helmet.
            A student at Vanguard Military Academy, he had been cycling home from a friend’s place in Hobsonville.

            Judge Nicola Mathers said it was only the following day that Le Roux handed herself in.
            But by then the alcohol and cannabis levels in her bloodstream could not be determined at the time of the crash.
            She recognised Le Roux had a tough upbringing and had mental health issues following the crash.

            https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/109365190/driver-posts-hide-your-children-on-instagram-after-causing-death-of-teen-cyclist

            • Herodotus 12.1.1.4.2.1

              “The cyclist’s death was largely brought about by his careless lack of responsibility in riding through a red light into the path of oncoming cars, while wearing headphones which meant he wasn’t aware of his surroundings or following the road rules put in place to keep road users safe. He certainly didn’t learn self-responsibility well at his military academy.”
              For F>>>>> Sake. Not a mention of of Le Roux’s or mums, friends actions
              ““Le Roux’s group of friends later saw news reports of someone having died from the crash, while Le Roux’s mother told her daughter to get some rest before going to police in the morning.
              But the next day, Le Roux’s mum and Sam first went to a panel beater to seek advice about what to do with the damaged car.
              Some 16 hours later, Le Roux and both her passengers went to police.”
              AND
              “The worst thing the woman has done in this story is panicked and left the scene .” How to minimise that this resulted in a needless DEATH !!!

              • bwaghorn

                Hand on heart time herodotus.
                Do you think mitchell has used this as an opportunity to puff his chest out and play to the angry morons.

                • Naki man

                  The thing is wag you are the only person acting like a angry moron.
                  Mitchell is doing a great job here, decent people care about victims of crime. 143.000 people cant be wrong.

              • greywarshark

                If you could restrict yourself to thinking about the circumstances at the time of the death, and critically examine those, I would think you would be suitable to have on a jury.

                But your mind strays round amongst a cast of people who weren’t there at the time, making judgments about them, and how and what they did later and so on. Your brain is a mess. How can you cope with the world swirling round you, and find some sort of clear path?

                I am demonstrating how to clear away extraneous matter so as to see fault. You get confused by the window-dressing. I actually like reading detective novels, which have to do this unpicking to establish a clear pattern showing truth and the facts. Perhaps reading would help you excitable people requiring some mind connection of the clues, which requires more thinking than watching dramas on the goggle box.

              • aom

                Give us a break – Herodotus, it appears you are now suggesting that the young woman’s sentencing should have included consideration of the actions of her mother and the others who were in the vehicle as aggravation factors? It would help if your rants addressed operational matters relating to the justice system rather than venting on the person who was sentenced. It would also be useful if you walked in someone else’s shoes for half a minute and considered what the best social outcomes of such a tragedy might be.

            • ianmac 12.1.1.4.2.2

              Well said greywarshark @ 12.1.14.2. Just what I was thinking

            • Observer Tokoroa 12.1.1.4.2.3

              It is a shame that a driver Killed a cyclist – and then proceeded to drive on without stopping.

              It is beside the point whether the Driver had a hard life or an easy life. She allegedly killed a Cylist.

              A Lawyer says that the driver was sorry about it. But I am afraid that a Laywers’ words have no place in Court,other than the Law. Although they make out they can say what they want. Twisted or otherwise.

              Fortunately the Driver who killed the Cyclist at the intersection – is having a nice happy wonderful thrilling life. It does not seem Fair.

              • greywarshark

                It wasn’t a driver that was confronted by a cyclist right in front of the car. It was a person who was shocked and moving and hit, and then was scared and couldn’t cope. And should have stopped and went to the police but not till the next day. The boy made himself a victim, and she is also, Your easy blame does not look at the whole picture.

                • Observer Tokoroa

                  Strange that the Court locked up the Alleged Driver for a Year and removed her Licence to Drive.

                  You should put a claim in against the Police, the Judge, and common sense. You are claiming the Boy hit himself. Crikey !

                  Passing Strange…

              • Observer Tokoroa

                About Fairness

                If a Driver kills a person on the road or an intersection he or she should be obliged to accept a solid punishment.

                I think in the case of the Promising 15 yr old Boy who was allegedly Hit and killed by a Driver who did not stop, a payment of $10,000 should be made each Month, to the grieving Family who lost an irreplaceable Child.

                The Payment should be made by the Killer and continued for a minimum 40 years.

              • aom

                It must be great to be able to slip into a world of disingenuousness, ignorance a wild assumption when there is a real world outside. Hope you are having a nice day while the victim of your venom lives in a world of a different reality yours OT.

                • Observer Tokoroa

                  Hi AOM

                  I am glad you think you can kill any one and get away with it.

                  You are one of very few AOM.

                  But then you don’t mind being damaged or killed. Strange

                  • aom

                    Get a grip. What the f**k makes you think that any reasonable person condones the intentional killing of another human being as you seem to be contending. You have just proved the point of the earlier comment.

          • ianmac 12.1.1.4.3

            “But the next day, Le Roux’s mum and Sam first went to a panel beater to seek advice about what to do with the damaged car.””
            True Herodotus but it was not their Mercedes. The owner was beside her in the car but reports keep saying “her” car.

            • Herodotus 12.1.1.4.3.1

              Did you not read my cut and paste ??” THE damaged car.
              I never have said it was her car.
              You even quoted that
              “But the next day, Le Roux’s mum and Sam first went to a panel beater to seek advice about what to do with the damaged car.
              If those who are convicted can have their sentence reviewed and re considered, what is wrong with the reverse ?

        • Tuppence Shrewsbury 12.1.1.5

          WOW! victim blaming much? a kid still died, maybe if she wasn’t drunk and stoned, she would have stopped in time.

          Death threats are far to far, but this isn’t nationals fault you giant twat.

          • Naki man 12.1.1.5.1

            “WOW! victim blaming much? a kid still died, maybe if she wasn’t drunk and stoned, she would have stopped in time”

            True, the fact the learner driver was also speeding wouldn’t have helped.

            • OnceWasTim 12.1.1.5.1.1

              She must be one of those indecent, lawbreaker types eh Naki? (“decent people care about victims of crime”)
              The other day you told me to get off the drugs. That’d be the beta blockers I ‘spose.
              The thing that worries me in any serious sort of way is that it’s possible we’re related. Otherwise you’re a bit of humour
              By the way, I can assure you that Nicola Mathers cares quite a lot about victims of crime.

    • I feel love 12.2

      The rabid right wing do angry hate politics really well.

    • Naki man 12.3

      Yes cos it is Mark Mitchell and Nationals fault that this woman got pissed and stoned then killed a 15 year old boy in a hit and run and mocked his family on social media.
      There were no lies wag, haven’t you got some sheeps arses to clean.

      • Gabby 12.3.1

        She got her sense of entitlement from somewhere NastiMan. Maybe she brought it from the Deepublik.

      • bwaghorn 12.3.2

        See that’s why MPs need to be above getting involved in day to day cases . Because there angry fucking moron followers go feral . Yes that’s you dick head.
        You got proof she was unfit to drive at the time . ?
        Have you considered that maybe people react in odd ways to major stress with regards to her poor choice at Halloween. (To deep a thinking for as nat following moron I expect)
        She got the same sentence as to other similar cases in her area .
        Change the law if you don’t like it but don’t drag people through the shit for political gain .

  13. Draco T Bastard 13

    Australia’s encryption law threatens NZ cloud data

    They’re being a bit deceptive in that headline. The data that they’re referring to is actually our government’s data.

    Earlier this month, the Australian government rushed through a controversial anti-encryption bill that could have ramifications for tech companies all over the world. The legislation, dubbed the Assistance and Access Act, makes it mandatory for any organisation whose website or data is hosted in Australia to give authorities access to their IT system if requested.

    That could mean providing a backdoor to an encrypted system, or “assisting” authorities to implant malware or otherwise undermine the organisation’s security.

    Which is why I’ve always said that government data should be on government servers and not private servers in other countries. The data is just too critical and sensitive to allow foreign governments access to it and yet that is what they now have.

  14. greywarshark 14

    Alternative Christmas present – to the perky birds and other ‘favourite things’ of NZ.

    Mega mast – Forest & Bird
    https://secure.flo2cash.co.nz/donations/afbAppeals/DonateSecure.aspx
    Next year is going to be a tough year for our native birds with a ‘mega-mast’ event unfolding in forests around the country thanks to warmer temperatures.

    In mast years trees flower and seed very heavily, which boosts rodent and stoat numbers – spelling disaster for native birds such as kiwi, kākā and kea. The money set aside for predator control by the Government will not be enough, and to make things worse the opposition to additional pest control will be very strong.

    To win the battle for the birds and get additional funding for pest control we need your support. Please support our Christmas Appeal so we can continue to defend nature.

    And support limited and controlled 1080 drops done in the most efficacious manner using the latest knowledge, and restrain your impetuous acquaitances who are anti. Please.

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/378614/russell-forest-possums-down-80-percent-since-1080-drop


    The Department of Conservation (DOC) said results showed rats had been all but wiped out and possum numbers had dropped by 80 percent.

    The aerial operation in September covered the Russell Forest north of Whangarei and Cape Brett in the Bay of Islands, and was the first since the mid-1990s….

    In Russell Forest, DOC staff put out 160 tracking tunnels before and after the aerial 1080 operation. Before, 76 percent of the 160 tunnels had pest interference. After, only one out of 160 tunnels had rat footprints.
    Possum presence is measured through wax tags which are placed 20m apart and when possums chew the tags it indicates their presence.

  15. Flynn must be freaking.

    At Mr. Flynn’s sentencing hearing in Federal District Court in Washington, Judge Emmet G. Sullivan called Mr. Flynn’s crimes “a very serious offense” and said he was not hiding his “disgust” at what Mr. Flynn had done.

    “All along you were an unregistered agent of a foreign country while serving as the national security adviser,” the judge told Mr. Flynn. “Arguably that undermines everything that this flag over here stands for. Arguably you sold your country out.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/18/us/politics/michael-flynn-sentencing.html

    • francesca 15.1

      yeah but Turkey is a member of NATO and particularly at that time, an ally of US.
      How many unregistered agents of Israel are there running around?

    • indiana 16.1

      If free public transport can be provided/afforded, don’t you thing it would be better to reduce city council rates instead?

      • Ed 16.1.1

        No.
        Have you heard of climate change?
        As a consequence, I think central government should fund this.

      • Draco T Bastard 16.1.2

        No. That would be a bad idea.

        Free transport would do a hell of a lot of good for a lot of people.

      • Naki man 16.1.3

        “don’t you thing it would be better to reduce city council rates instead?”

        Ed probably doesn’t pay rates.

      • SaveNZ 16.1.4

        Arguably AT are trying to increase rates while increasing taxis and carbon for the most privileged in the Devonport uber to Ferry trials.

        While I agree partly with this approach aka trying to solve people getting to the public transport easily $2.50 for an uber ride – it’s more expensive to go by bus with AT or get a coffee!!! Seriously $4 -$5 should be the amount for up to 1 stage uber journey and more for further away! Or mini vans so that they are picking up multiple people on route!

        While AT and government seem to be against free public transport they are keen for selected free transport, Waiheke ferry for free for the Gold card members and subsidised $2.50 uber rides as per above in wealthy areas. They can afford to subsidise the wealthy but less keen for the poor apparently as too many of them, perhaps?

        • greywarshark 16.1.4.1

          I think the whole Auckland thing can be viewed as the ‘top people’ putting on a show for their overseas friends from more wealthy countries. Getting the greater Auckland area combined, gave them a catchment closer to the size of a European or USA city. They now can have what all major cities have ie a sky tower, and stadiums, opera house or whatever. They can make claims how good they are if they turn on the good services for the ‘better’ people. and areas. The hoi polloi have to go the cheapest way, that is by running behind the bus instead of travelling in it, as the joke goes.

  16. ianmac 17

    Question Time today.
    Funny. Bridges asks the usual question and this Jacinda gives a detailed a huge answer about how well the Government. National are not happy.
    Each supplementary question the same treatment. Hilarious!

    • Pete 17.1

      His performance today showed that ‘simple’ was gross over-estimation.

    • mac1 17.2

      And there was so much good news that even her so-called ‘protector’ had to bring her answer to a finish, as he did with the good news later from Grant Robertson on the achievements of this government.

      The great protector also had to step in on Simon Bridges, who ignored the Speaker’s non-verbal corrections at least four times, for breaching parliamentary practice with his continual calling out. In cricket terms, Bridges has to wait until the ball gets to the batter before he can appeal for a possible wicket.

      Mallard was doing a good job of protecting parliamentary rules……………

      And Ardern used the open nature of Bridge’s primary question to good effect thanking him for his question and then listing how well this government is doing, including the rise in the 2019 minimum wage (which will help the freezing workers who will receive just payment for their ‘donning and doffing”) announced today.

    • Ed 17.3

      Nine minutes of pure comedy gold.
      I hope that the National Party don’t follow the precedent set by Manchester United board.
      Simon must stay as leader.

  17. greywarshark 18

    A discussion about the sugar market and the UK post-Brexit with comments from Tate and Lyle. As sugar has been identified as one of the things we need less of and needing hard controls, there is a feeling of watching the vultures circling.

    https://www.foodnavigator.com/Article/2018/03/01/Post-Brexit-trade-in-sugar-The-UK-market-should-reflect-UK-interest-say-Tate-Lyle

  18. There is an ongoing and extremely nasty campaign to silence women, especially gender-critical feminists. It is being waged by elements of the new trans movement and involves no-platforming feminists, a wide range of threats (including rape and death threats), lots of incitement to violence, attempts to get gender-critical feminists thrown off social media and their websites closed down and to get them fired from their jobs. Daphna Whitmore examines just some of this campaign: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2018/12/17/the-intolerance-of-transactivists/

  19. eco maori 20

    I say Elon Musk take up of the ideai of travel and even habitat underground is great we are after all running out of realestate above ground .If we just carry on as we are now we will be stealing more and more of OUR wild life habitat and pushing them into extintion. So starting this new trend now is brilliant there are many positives about this movement.
    1 this infrastructure will be safer from damage from mother nature and man. cost less to build with out having to by land for the project.
    The idea is that, one day, cities will have so many underground layers of tunnel networks that a driver of an autonomous electric car could join the loop at any point and be whisked at speeds of up to 150 miles per hour to a destination programmed in advance. Musk said a station could be just a glorified parking spot with an elevator to take the driver down into the system, or something grander with double-helix spiral ramps. Ka kite ano links below P.S I know there are many problems to be solved on this subject best to start now than wait another hundred years like the up take of eletrick cars is taking.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/dec/18/elon-musk-boring-company-tunnel-party-tonight-los-angeles

  20. Eco Maori 21

    I have seen a few storys backing hydrogen as a clean sorce of energy well I say pull your heads out of that fantasy. WHY because of all the loses that are accumulated in making transporting and using the stuff sure keep on researching hydrogen but don’t bet our future on it when we have proven tec battery and elictricity that is % 80 cheaper for the public to use and %50 more efficent to make hence the difference in the end user price . After all the best way to lower our emmisions is efficencys Quite simple to work that equation out if we don’t need to waste anything thats A big +to saving our enviroment for our grandchildren video below ka kite ano P.S I say use this channel to lean its cheap I am going to sign up

  21. Eco Maori 22

    Here is a good video no need for Eco Maori to com I will let the video speak for me ka kite ano.

  22. Eco Maori 23

    Here is another video to give everyone hope that humans will be able to solve our energy storage problems .I see the good person Dr. Goodenough’s got ripped off by bad people . solid-state glass battery which is late in the development cycle as Goodenough has been working on this tech for 30+ years and knows what he’s doing. I’m sure we’ll see solid-state batteries in cars with 3x the capacity and 10 min. charge time in the next 2-4 years and say bye bye to oil ICE cars ka kite ano Link below P.S I see the oil baron trolls in all com on positive green storys ignore the fools

  23. Eco Maori 24

    Tax cuts /bribes to the wealthy classes shonky did the same here in Aotearoa the end results was people living under the bridge and starving children state departments run into the dirt not being able to provide the services they were invented to provide.

    The Trump tax cuts exemplify the fundamental difference in objective between the American left and the American right, one that is only now coming into sharper focus. For Trump and many of his allies, government is yet another avenue for grift and personal enrichment, a pattern he has maintained for his entire life. But now that he’s in office, he’s not just a greedy grifter; he’s a powerful kleptocrat. For the GOP, government is a way of pushing failed ideas that enrich a few at the expense of the many, with the veneer of public service in place only to doll up malignant self-interest and bigotry. Democrats are far from perfect, and there is much fair debate to be had on what the fairest and most effective tax structure should look like, but their goal is clearly not simply to make the rich richer and the poor poorer.
    For more opinion…
    Sign up for our new newsletter.
    Join us on Twitter and Facebook

    One year after the tax cuts, Republicans should look at them with shame. But then, that would require they look beyond their own bank accounts. Ka kite ano links below

    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/12/18/opinions/trump-tax-cuts-fed-interest-rate-jill-filipovic/index.html

  24. Eco Maori 25

    Eco Maori Music for the minute.

  25. Eco Maori 26

    Kia ora Newshub Condolences to Jared and his partner for the loss of there baby boy.
    chris why did shonky take over Ecan and turn it in to E.Coli what a big mess.
    I sure Wally would have learn’t a lesson from the issues he has had .
    Ikea should be ok I put together our furniture by myself less stress.
    I am A big fan of Elon Musks Tunnel and his other enterprises .
    Its sad that Taratahi farm education has gone broke .
    Pets are good for children but no more cats for us they are to hard on the wild life in Aotearoa.
    I seen Sandra Bullock promoting the move she acted in for you Susan Its good to see Wahine film Directors Ka pai.
    Andrew Scott Dixion has had a great year . Ka kite ano P.S Ingred there was a lot of thunder this afternoon.

  26. Eco Maori 27

    This was another suppresion of Tangata Whenua O Aotearoa rights that’s plan as day for Eco Maori to see. The alt right national have made many moves to under mine Maori mana I say give back there rights to vote shonky made this law conveniently before the 2011 election cycle go figure another mess Our Coalistion goverment has to clean up
    The former National government banned all prisoners from voting in 2010. Before then, inmates were allowed to vote if they were incarcerated for less than three years.
    This was successfully challenged in court by five inmates, including career criminal and jailhouse lawyer Arthur Taylor, in the High Court.
    The Attorney-General has now twice failed to overturn that ruling in both the Court of Appeal and Supreme Court. Ka kite ano links below .

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/375655/prison-reform-group-wants-debate-on-prisoners-right-to-vote. P.S the state is walking all over Eco Maori Whano’s Human Rights

  27. Eco Maori 28

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute.

  28. eco maori 29

    Here is another good reason to change our farms to Organic farming practies all our freshwater species are close to extinction white bait kakahi it is easer to keep a water way clean than its is to try and restore it once its been destroyed by MAN

    We don’t normally think of shellfish when we think of streams, rivers and lakes in Wairarapa.
    And even if we did, it would be unlikely to imagine them spending a few weeks cruising around attached to a fish, before settling into a silty bed, filtering sediment out of the passing water and living for up to 50 years.

    Unlikely as that may be, that’s exactly what kakahi, New Zealand’s freshwater mussels, have been doing for thousands of years. Right here in Wairarapa too. The kakahi of Aotearoa are the most powerful filtering freshwater mussel in the world. Put a handful in a container of murky water and they can clean it in a few hours. But before we celebrate this humble hero, we need to consider, they have been dwindling fast for the past 50 years and their future is uncertain.

    Freshwater scientist Hannah Rainforth says this appears to be a typical story for kakahi throughout most of New Zealand. Hannah was at the Greater Wellington office in Masterton in May talking to a meeting of about 40 freshwater enthusiasts about the decline of kakahi in her study site, the Whanganui River. Ka kite ano Links below

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/communities/2488390/The-mysterious-freshwater-mussel.

  29. eco maori 30

    A video to Tanemahuta Atua of the forest we need to look after all his creatures

  30. Eco Maori 31

    Eco Maor say that the Crown has failed Maori well being once again .We all know that the TV audence is changing fast to online platforms. Hence there should have been a strategy to counter this phenomen and target on line viewers . The news programes in Maori how are we to find out whats happening in the provences with out Maori news the other positive thing about Te Maori News is it is a record of history of what has happened in the past I quite often use the on line platforms to see into OUR past so I agree with Jan Wright is more than just viewers its a tool to learn maori language to it our cultures being recored and stored for the future mokopunas to research what we got up to.It did not help that we have had a goverment that failed maori on many fronts in the last nine years .?????????????????Eco maori will fight this dump move I missed the storys of this happening you see what stays on the front page of media websites is dictated by outside influnces .

    “We pride ourselves on being Aotearoa’s only public service broadcaster that tells New Zealand stories from a Māori perspective. A recent report showed that local content made up 82 per cent of Māori Television’s prime-time hours, which was comparative with 50 per cent for other free to air local broadcasters.”Citing recent audience-attracting successes like coverage of kapa haka competitions and reality shows Piri’s Tiki Tour and Shear Bro, Osborne said that declining linear TV audiences were a problem facing all broadcasters. Also, a recent NZ On Air survey had shown Māori and Pacific Island audiences were more likely to watch online videos and video on-demand than the general populace. The drift to online, he said, was reflected in the usage of Māori Television’s website which had more than 2.5 million minutes of video viewed in 2017 “and our forecasts are set to exceed this in 2018”.However, in releasing the information, NZ On Air Jane Wrightson said that all of these low-rating shows were “well-made, have cultural value, and each has a different reason for a lower linear rating, often outweighed by a strong on-demand or online response”. For example, some of Only in Aotearoa’s Facebook videos had more than 300,000 views and Find Me a Maori Bride had more than 30,000 plays on Māori TV OnDemand.
    Wrightson also added that ratings failed to measure cultural, social and other qualitative value. “NZ On Air’s purpose is to fund cultural content that the market alone cannot support.”
    Responding to the results, Māori Television head of commercial and corporate affairs Rick Osborne admitted that “funding and producing programmes is, at times, more an art than a science”.
    “And like other broadcasters the final judge of what is deemed good rests
    links below Ka kite ano P.S I think Maori deserve a bit of tau toko from the goverment after all its tato tato no we may have to review our realitys.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/106988878/nz-on-air-mori-tv-shows-dominate-leastpopular-funded-programming

  31. Eco Maori 32

    I say that all maori content should have captions WHY because no many of us are fluent with te reo hence the low ratings . If one can not understand more than 2 words per sentence well the channel gets turned over . 2 the viewers can learn te reo if the captions are there on maori news and programs eveyone always goes for the easyway for anything so if we make learning te reo from the couch you will get a bigger audience. We love the new Toys that speak te reo The Ware House is selling them to we have booked 4 for the mokopuna’s Ka pai Ka kite ano links below P.S I like watching Find me a Maori bride and Only in Aotearoa on Maori TV I have been trying to support Maori TV but its hard when I can only pick up a few words here and there I say there should have been a te wero for the program makers to pick up viewers not just cancle them.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/small-business/85978097/kiwi-couple-launch-first-mori-language-doll-in-new-zealand

  32. Eco Maori 33

    Here you go trump is willing to ruin all the American state workers Chrismas holidays by not signing a new budget bill just so he can get his lollie a boarder wall on the US Mexico borader. The reality is everyone knows its a waste of time and money and won’t work
    CNN)Republican Sen. Susan Collins almost dropped her handbag Thursday as she gestured disbelief at word, delivered to her by reporters in the Capitol, that President Donald Trump would not sign the budget extension to keep government funded until February unless border wall money was added.
    “Did he just say that?” she asked as she left a Republican lunch. “Ugh, are you ruining my life?”
    Collins was already headed to the airport to return home to Maine and wait for the drama to play out, when word came, via House Speaker Paul Ryan, who had met with Trump, that a government shutdown now seemed more likely.

    “Boy, we can’t have government shut down. It’s never good,” she said. “How many times do we have to learn that?”

    2 days until a partial government shutdown
    Collins and other GOP senators were told they would be given 24 hours’ notice before a vote was called so they could fly back to DC.
    The White House had signaled earlier this week that Trump would sign the bill.
    Sen. Pat Roberts, a Kansas Republican, was leaving the Capitol to join Trump at the White House for the signing Ka kite ano Links below.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/12/20/politics/senators-angry-trump-shutdown/index.html

  33. Eco Maori 34

    It looks scary from Aotearoa NZ let alone being in the same room as trump one of the best skill one can have is taking good advice on and using it not trump he thinks he knows best he is ruining Americia thats plane as day to see from here.
    Defense Secretary Jim Mattis’ impending departure shook an already tense Capitol on Thursday night, with lawmakers in both parties reacting with concern over what Mattis’ departure means for both Trump’s administration, and the international community.
    In a letter announcing his resignation, Mattis implicitly criticized President Donald Trump’s military judgment, suggested the president was not treating allies with respect, and had not been “clear-eyed” about those who would do the U.S. harm.

    He then told Trump that he had the right to have a defense chief who shares his views.
    Sen. Mark Warner, D-Va., the top Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee, called Mattis “an island of stability amidst the chaos of the Trump administration.” Mattis, in his letter, said he would depart at the end of February.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/scary-mattis-resignation-triggers-bipartisan-chorus-concern-capitol-hill-n950651

  34. Eco Maori 35

    Kia ora Newshub Obama hanakoko those people will have had a good surprise.
    If one meets someone online you should never trust them unless.
    Australia is just behaving badly deporting there problem people here to Aotearoa. I Will say this about the Airport in Britain with plane not being able to fly and ruining all those people holiday is sad
    The skin canser problem is quite bad its not on that the sunblock we pay big money for is not doing what the products state what the say they do. Ka kite ano P.S the Tokoroa sandflys must have missed me they were flying all over the place when eco Maori past through.
    Free range turkey and chicken is good but cost prohibited some from buying it

  35. Eco Maori 36

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute

  36. Eco Maori 37

    We have to step up the fight to protect Tanemahuta’s fauna beautiful fauna and fungi why because Eco says its the correct thing to do we need a lot more santuries for all our wild life.
    There are some that will have properties that will cure tangata ills and some that will become a new food source its logcial that we will keep decovering new species if the future but not if it habatitat has already destroyed CONSERVATION of everything IS NEEDED FOR humans to survive From spectacular orchids to towering trees – 2018’s top new plant discoveries
    Around the world, species hunters unearth 128 vascular plants and 44 species of fungi, many already facing extinction

    He said: “When I began 30 years ago there was mostly nothing to suggest that new species I was publishing were about to go extinct. Increasingly I’m finding that species I’m describing are endangered or even extinct already.
    “There is no doubt it is a race against time. Until species are officially discovered and given a name, the International Union for Conservation of Nature won’t accept a conservation assessment for them. Then the species has got a better chance of surviving.”
    Cheek has published a paper detailing the discovery of a tree in Cameroon, called Vepris bali, which is thought to have become extinct before it had even been named. He hopes its naming will encourage people to search for it, after it was found some years ago in the Bali Ngemba forest reserve in Cameroon Links below Ka kite ano

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/dec/21/from-spectacular-orchids-to-towering-trees-2018s-top-new-plant-discoveries

  37. Eco Maori 38

    This song is dedicated to Eco Maori’s Arch Nemesis

  38. Eco Maori 39

    Here you go the same phemonomenon is happened to Aotearoa maori as is Australia Tangata whenua suppression we must let the people pulling the string’s of power that we will never give up untill we get Equality for all .
    Federal budget cuts have been blamed for the Northern Territory having the lowest rate of voter enrolment in Australia, with more than 26,300 people from rural and remote areas not enrolled to vote.
    About 23,000 of those people are in the federal electorate of Lingiari, where the sitting member, Labor’s Warren Snowdon, has described the situation as an “absolute scandal”.
    Under a federal government restructure in 2017, the Australian Electoral Commission office in Darwin was reduced from 16 staff to three, with five jobs axed in enrolment and four in Indigenous participation and voter education.

    Indigenous leaders in ‘crisis talks’ with PM over Closing the Gap
    Read more

    “Such underfunding is an underhanded but horribly effective way to suppress democratic rights,” Snowdon said. “Many Indigenous Australians live in these low voter enrolment areas. Their participation in our democracy is more challenging because English is often their second, third or fourth language, and their average income is as low as 50% below the Australian poverty line. Ka kite ano links below

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/dec/11/government-suppression-tactics-blamed-for-nts-low-rate-of-voter-enrolment

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