Open Mike 19/09/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 19th, 2016 - 172 comments
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172 comments on “Open Mike 19/09/2016 ”

  1. Gangnam Style 1

    In the context of the Ministry of Education’s recent announcements about Communities of Online Learning this makes an interesting read. The October 2015 National Study of Online Charter Schools was conducted by the University of Washington, Stanford University, and Mathematica Policy Research, and provides a thorough analysis of the operations of (American) online charter schools, their policy environments and impacts on student achievement.

    https://credo.stanford.edu/pdfs/Online%20Press%20Release.pdf

    • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1

      Being even more crap than an average US education is truly lame. I wonder whether the problem is online learning per se, or whether right wing incompetence and malice is the bigger issue.

      In either event, I wonder how much the National Party took in bribes to inflict it on our kids.

    • Draco T Bastard 1.2

      Why should Bill Gates decide how our children should be educated?

      A few weeks before the scheduled start of term, a small group of wealthy industry leaders who grew up in the city offered to plug the hole in the education budget with millions of their own philanthropic dollars. Foster was thrilled, but soon the donors wanted more control over how the funds were spent, and they insisted on having oversight of the district’s fiscal health. They made their support contingent on establishing a new system of ‘charter’ schools (publicly-funded but privately managed), which have become a cornerstone of efforts by billionaire philanthropists to reform the national education system.

      The strings attached to the donors’ money weren’t attractive, but no support was forthcoming from the state, and retaining control over schools wouldn’t matter if they were bankrupt or closed. So Foster agreed to meet their conditions.

      And we wonder why this government keeps underfunding education and other essential government services.

  2. Ad 2

    That Kellyann from Trump’s team, she got game.

    A seasoned pro toe to toe against leftie luvvie Bill Mayer:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bill-maher-trump-campaign-manager-evil_us_57dd92f9e4b08cb140962d64?section=&

  3. A great read on this proposed ‘land wars’ commeration by Moana Jackson. if you want to understand this issue from a Māori perspective then this is a good starter. And yep other Māori may have other positions on it.

    I personally find Moana Jackson’s views align with mine – in some ways I wish I could vote for him in a Māori electorate and then I remember what often happens to tangata whenua when they get in the big house and I’m so glad he is removed and above party parlimentary politics.

    http://e-tangata.co.nz/news/moana-jackson-facing-the-truth-about-the-wars

    • Draco T Bastard 3.1

      As some have noted, they were “sovereignty wars”, which more aptly recognises them as colonising wars to take power.

      Bingo!

      That’s exactly what they were. The English capitalists saw land and resources that they didn’t own/control and set about taking it for themselves. And, of course, the dispossession caused Māori to look for jobs in the capitalists businesses that they never needed to do before thus increasing available manpower for exploitation.

    • Karen 3.2

      +1 Marty.

      Moana Jackson is , as always, great but so is this e-tangata site. Always an interesting, well-informed read.

  4. The Chairman 4

    Civil Defence Centres reformed into ‘Community Emergency Hubs’, which won’t stock survival supplies

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/84349936/wellingtons-civil-defence-centres-reformed-into-community-emergency-hubs-which-wont-stock-survival-supplies

    • Colonial Viper 4.1

      Good luck to you Wellington, you’ll probably need it in the next few decades.

      • The Chairman 4.1.1

        Unfortunately, mistakes in this won’t be acknowledged until after a disaster strikes and lives are lost as a result.

      • alwyn 4.1.2

        “you’ll probably need it”
        I don’t think this is the worst thing.
        The worst problem we are likely to have is that the water supply will be interrupted where the supply pipelines cross faults.
        Then we will have a hospital without any water. The Council refuse to build a reservoir to supply water to the hospital in an emergency. Every other Council in the country does it. The Wellington City Council would far rather spend the ratepayer’s money on the ridiculous cycle lanes and on mad plans for extending the runway at the airport or bringing back the trams.
        We might have a hospital building after an earthquake but it won’t be able to provide any medical treatment.

  5. The Chairman 5

    Patients are being harmed by the deteriorating finances of ambulance services, a paramedics’ group says.

    “New Zealand’s two ambulance services are facing a funding crisis

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11709706

  6. Puckish Rogue 6

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11711892

    Doesn’t make it any better of course (encouraging/forcing someone isn’t cool) but it shows why its always good to wait for all the details to emerge

    • One Anonymous Bloke 6.1

      We waited: the facts came out. They vindicate Scarlette.

      I note that you choose to describe forcible sexual contact as “not cool”, as though some minor social faux-pas has been committed.

      • Puckish Rogue 6.1.1

        Maybe however the initial furore was over Chiefs players committing the acts whereas its turned out to be a bus driver

        I wasn’t describing forcible sexual contact as not cool but rather the encouraging/egging someone on

        He says:

        “She came up and gave me a hug and a kiss and gave one of the other players a hug. She didn’t seem upset at all.”

        I think we can all agree it was rather sordid

        • One Anonymous Bloke 6.1.1.1

          You had it right the first time when you pointed out that in this context, “encouraging” and “forcing” are interchangeable.

          • Puckish Rogue 6.1.1.1.1

            As long as you realise I was referring to the encouraging/forcing aspect of it, not the actual physical contact which is a separate issue

            • One Anonymous Bloke 6.1.1.1.1.1

              Keep telling yourself that.

              • Puckish Rogue

                Yes I believe that encouraging someone to do something is a separate issue to that person then doing it

                Both are culpable but are culpable for seperate actions

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  Scarlette has made reference to the violence she feared if she responded to the ‘encouragement’ in the ‘wrong’ way.

                  When was the last time you were physically bullied?

                  • Puckish Rogue

                    In a court of law would the bus driver and players involved in the incident be charged with the same or separate offences?

                    • McFlock

                      According to the Crimes Act, the same offence:

                      Every one is a party to and guilty of an offence who—
                      (a)

                      actually commits the offence; or
                      (b)

                      does or omits an act for the purpose of aiding any person to commit the offence; or
                      (c)

                      abets any person in the commission of the offence; or
                      (d)

                      incites, counsels, or procures any person to commit the offence.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      Thanks McFlock, I stand corrected

                • Draco T Bastard

                  No, they’re culpable for the same action because the action was a direct result of their actions.

        • Gabby 6.1.1.2

          Well it’s not like inciting unlawful acts is a crime or anything.

  7. Good interview by Winona LaDuke from Standing Rock.

    http://m.democracynow.org/stories/16610

    Worth noting a lot of fake photos of protest on the net esp fbook. The powers that be must be worried.

  8. RedLogix 8

    This aligns very much with my idea that up to 85% of all crime is preventable if you get in early enough. A brave initiative and one that could transform Aboriginal life:

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-19/four-corners-bourkes-experiment-in-justice-reinvestment/7855114

    Incidentally Bourke holds a very symbolic place in the Australian psyche as the ‘place where the outback begins’.

  9. greywarshark 9

    Declining NZ – 1st world to 5th? Stop the rot! Stop the rort!
    Ambulance service declining, serious.
    Legal aid services declining, non-existent in some areas.

    • RedLogix 9.1

      Yes. Yes. Yes.

      Under the previous Liberal State govt Victoria went through a long and bitter paramedic/ambo dispute. Ugly and totally unnecessary.

      Speaking from first hand knowledge of the people who do this very demanding work, work that results in the highest family break-up rates, the very high depression and suicide rates, covert substance abuse and PTSD rates … I know there is a LOT that needs addressing in this area.

      No matter how calm and professional the ambo appears on the scene, it is not possible for them to avoid the psychic imprints created by dealing constantly with others in pain and profound distress.

      And low pay rates merely compound the harm, reinforcing a sense of being under-valued. Their organisations absolutely need better resourcing in order to mitigate the stress. All this is well known and understood.

  10. mauī 10

    What a day to be a kiwi. Our leader in charge of UN world security in Americas most important city currently facing new terror. As well as managing the superpowers after escalation that could lead to World War in Syria.

    Makes me proud…

    • Puckish Rogue 10.1

      It is pretty impressive, imagine if *insert any Labour leader since Helen Clark* was there, it ‘d be a shambles and NZ would be a laughing stock

      • mauī 10.1.1

        Ok those comparisons are a bit unfair considering they never made it to the PM position. Personally I think all of those people could perform better than Key on that stage.

        • Puckish Rogue 10.1.1.1

          So, just to clarify, you think Goff, Shearer, Cunliffe or Little would perform better on the world then John Key who has proven to be able mix, negotiate and make friends with people in the highest positions of power on the world stage

          I know you’re left and I know you hate John Key but get some perspective, John Key is a proven quantity (mind you Goff did good work on the FTA with China so maybe he could make a decent fist of it) but if you took of your blinkers you’d see the john Key is the best person available to do this

          • mauī 10.1.1.1.1

            My blinkers? Has it occurred to you that it might be you who is unwilling to think critically. You’ve just written a puff piece and I don’t know if you’re taking the piss or doing your best to be a defender.

            Yes, I think the Labour leaders could perform better in terms of things like leadership, diplomacy and character on the world stage than the current. Being able to mix and be nice with world leaders is something the PM is very good at. I think people want a bit more than that though, and they might ask what our glorious leader has achieved on the world stage in 8 years.

          • Draco T Bastard 10.1.1.1.2

            John Key is a proven quantity

            Yep, he’s a proven lapdog to those who are rich and powerful.

            but if you took of your blinkers you’d see the john Key is the best person available to do this

            No, lapdogs are pretty much useless at everything except looking decorative and doing what they’re told.

            • Puckish Rogue 10.1.1.1.2.1

              Once again you demonstrate one of the main issues of the left in NZ and that is underestimating John Key, I get that you don’t like him but acknowledging that hes very good at politics doesn’t mean you support him

              When the left underestimates John Key he just cries all the way to another election win

              But its ok because you got a good hit on him and called him a lapdog

              • Stuart Munro

                No he’s not good at politics – the business is governing, not lying about governing. Key gets a 2 out of 10 for governing – tyrants that systematically shoot their citizens are a 1. If Key were not utter shit I’d support him – back when he was trying to get elected and made some promising speeches on housing I thought the Gnats had finally found someone with a shred of talent. No such luck.

                • Lanthanide

                  Yip, if Key had actually delivered on his underclass and housing promises, then he wouldn’t be too bad.

                  • Stuart Munro

                    Damn straight – aspirational future – wage parity with Oz – 170 000 jobs – what’s not to like?

              • Draco T Bastard

                I’m not underestimating him at all. Being a lapdog gives an appearance of good politics as he gets on well with all rich people but no actual good politics.

              • Garibaldi

                PR – Key is a toadying minor member of the Wall St. club, nothing more nothing less. History will not be kind to him as all his ‘niceties’ will be recorded as nothing more than deceit, in the course of duty to his masters.

                • Puckish Rogue

                  You know how some right wingers got really irrational about Helen Clark?

                  I’d suggest that some of you are well down that same path

                  • I think it’s more that the qualities you admire in key are the qualities that some despise. The key to key is that he has normalised outright lying, pretend caring,and abhorent behaviour/slurs/non-apologies. He is the most disgusting and embarrasing PM weve ever had imo.

                  • Stuart Munro

                    There are both rational and irrational reasons to dislike John Key – as there are to uncritically admire the worst PM NZ has ever had. So what’s your deal PR, are you having his baby?

          • Richard Rawshark 10.1.1.1.3

            DUDE!!!! a spades a spade, I don’t see any of those labour leaders mincing a catwalk, telling rape jokes, planking, pony tail pulling, acting a buffoon on prime time US TV or a multitude of other, what a fuckwit actions by John the clown Key.

            Do you think any of the world leaders will take the clown PM seriously at anything.

            Dumb kiwi’s may think the sun shines out his arse like you, but the world has quite a different opinion to his parties policies and his in particular actions.

            I know PR your one of a few lonely battlers for National and John but for fucks sake man, he’s a class clown admit it.

            • Puckish Rogue 10.1.1.1.3.1

              I’m pretty sure that he won’t be doing anything like that over at the UN, however if he does feel free to point this out to me

              “I know PR your one of a few lonely battlers for National and John but for fucks sake man, he’s a class clown admit it.”

              – Yet somehow the polls seem to disagree with you, funny that

              • Lanthanide

                The class clown is usually quite popular. They just get shown up at exam time.

                • Puckish Rogue

                  Do you mean like the 2008, 2011, 2014 and 2017 elections or leaders debates?

                  • The New Student

                    Yeah we all know most people are easily led by empty promises

                  • Leftie

                    The 2017 election hasn’t happened yet and John key lost the leaders debate in 2014. Liar John key wouldn’t be where he is today if it hadn’t been for his dirty politics, abuse of the PM’s office and a lying, complicit msm Puckish Rogue.

                  • Lanthanide

                    No, I mean when future historians look at Key’s legacy of:
                    1. Throwing away the excellent fiscal position Clark left us
                    2. Failing to get the flag changed
                    3. Botching the Christchurch rebuild and failing to deliver a 21st century-city ready to face future energy shortages, by failing to institute basic minimum energy efficiency requirements
                    4. Selling off SoEs
                    5. Stopping contributions to the superannuation fund
                    6. Locking hundreds of thousands of NZers out of the housing market
                    7. Failing to address poverty, ensuring that we have locked in decades of increased health spending

                    Those seem like the biggies that will have impacts that future historians will be chastising this government for.

                    I’m sure there are other things; I didn’t even touch on the environment.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      8. Winning an MMP record breaking 4th consecutive term…?

                      You think that future historians will be scathing of the present National Govt – but what will they make of the Labour Party of this time?

                    • BM

                      Yeah, the disconnect with reality on this site is something to behold.

                      Does go a long way in explaining why the left is complete shit though.

                    • adam

                      Oh look BM just going with his usual response – abuse.

                      Good to see you still bridled with your hard right ideological blinkers.

                    • BM

                      National is coming to the end of its 3rd term and they’re still as popular as when they started, obviously the voter considers them to be a good government.

                      Then you come here and read some of the stuff and you’d think you’ve either ended up in a alternative dimension where NZ is ruled by a crazed tyrant or on some parody site.

                      It is entertaining though.

                    • Lanthanide

                      @BM,
                      None of the things I have listed are opinions.

                  • adam

                    I like how you just don’t care for the dispossessed and down trodden PR, you just in your love of power mode.

                    At least your only a mildly dishonest Tory scum bag, I’ll give you that.

              • framu

                so your saying that theres two JKs, PR?

                the global stateman for the top brass overseas, and the class clown type for the folks back home?

                what does that say about NZers?

                PS: you’re doing a fair bit of goal post shifting on this one 🙂

            • Red 10.1.1.1.3.2

              Phew red mist is thick with this one

            • Bob 10.1.1.1.3.3

              “telling rape jokes”
              Citation? I did see a video were other people were making rape references towards the PM, but I’ve never seen/heard him make one.

              “planking”
              Citation? I saw a picture of Max Key planking, not the PM though.

              “acting a buffoon on prime time US TV ”
              Citation? Unless you are talking about reading a David Letterman top 10 list? In which case he is keeping good company Barack Obama (at least twice).

              “or a multitude of other, what a fuckwit actions by John the clown Key”
              Any other ACTUAL examples?

              DUDE!!!! It looks like your spade may not be a spade afterall…

              • adam

                Sheesh, Bob – fetish much…

                PM lies, gets caught lying and you love him.

                Pulls hair of young girls (plural) caught on film and you love him.

                Panama papers, (more to come) and stuffed up NZ reputation. Got caught lying and you love him.

                Massive amounts of corporate welfare and you love him

                Declining water and land quality, but shusshhhh we not aloud to talk about that…Key says nothing, and you love him.

                No ministerial responsibility, so stuck a collection of piss poor ministers who think nothing of braking the law, but all you need Bob is for the P.M. to just smile and you love him.

                People like you…

                • Wensleydale

                  You’re wasting your breath, Adam. As Bomber Bradbury is so fond of saying, Key could tear the head off a kitten live on television, and he’d only go up in the estimation of people like Bob. Some folk are just doing far too nicely under our current administration, and perish the thought the gravy train is derailed by paltry considerations like… I don’t know, not being a complete bastard?

          • Lanthanide 10.1.1.1.4

            “John Key who has proven to be able mix, negotiate and make friends with people in the highest positions of power on the world stage”

            I agree, John Key makes a good MC and showman.

          • Psycho Milt 10.1.1.1.5

            … john Key is the best person available to do this…

            Are they going to be doing some currency trading? Blathering about whose shirt is gay or which celebs they’d like to fuck? It says something pretty terrible about NZ if John Key is the best person available for serious negotiations at the UN.

  11. save nz 12

    “No longer swimmable: A community mourns its lost river”

    extract…

    “The Selwyn River was once one of the world’s greatest trout fisheries.

    In the 1960s, the trout population reached 65,000, enough to stock every river in the South Island.

    There are now just several hundred trout in the river. Those remaining are thin and inedible due to the river’s health.

    The river’s problems were the result of “poor incremental decisions” over several decades, North Canterbury Fish & Game environmental adviser Scott Pearson said.

    Intensive farming had become too widespread in the area, and too much water was being extracted for irrigation.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/84116972/no-longer-swimmable-a-community-mourns-its-lost-river

    • marty mars 12.1

      So sad, they die slowly, one by one, and we watch and we hope and we pray and another one dies today.

      • Colonial Viper 12.1.1

        We are destroying the ecology of our nation, and sooner or later we will find out that it is the same ecology within which we need to live. (Contaminated aquifers, anyone)

    • Richard Rawshark 12.2

      I grew up swimming and fishing in many of those rivers in the 70’s and 80’s as I kid I think back and they always seemed pure and crystal clear, you could see the rocks ..it was pristine i’m talking the Waitaki river area.

      It was also mainly sheep and grain farming back then. Says something doesn’t it.

      I read that article and my heart sank. It’s like watching the foresters clear the amazon and no one can do anything about it. Unless they take proactive action and that’s the saddest part.

      Farmers are doing fuck all, saying they are, and screwing us all.

  12. Anne 13

    http://www.bryangould.com/what-more-can-labour-do/

    What more can Labour do?

    Well, the MOU with the Greens was a good start but the relationship needs to go much further. Labour cannot and will not achieve electoral success on its own any more. There have been too many changing political parameters over recent times that have clouded the judgement of a shallower and more transient population. JK and his govt. can continue to be as incompetent as we have thus far witnessed and it is unlikely to dent their overall popularity.

    As Bryan Gould postulates, Labour need to show a far greater willingness to respond to National with a totally different value system that means something to people in this day and age. In my view the Greens and Labour need to barnstorm the appropriate ‘new’ values message then use it [loudly] day in and day out at every opportunity. They need to show how those values would be applied to every aspect of the voters’ life and every issue that arises so voters can start to understand what will be different under a Lab/Green government.

    At the moment they don’t see a hell of a lot of difference so its largely a case of…. better the devil you know etc. It is a brave exercise because there will be major efforts by the govt. and their media lackeys to ridicule both parties, but if they don’t do it they can kiss goodbye to any chance of success next year.

    • Garibaldi 13.1

      Dead right Anne. “At the moment they don’t see a hell of a lot of difference ‘……. believe it or not that’s because there isn’t a hell of a lot of difference. It’s the very problem we’ve been banging on about for months. Many Labour supporters on this site don’t seem to be able to understand this.
      Little and co. have to stop being like dogs barking at passing cars and do far more than just trying to be the ‘softer’ side of neoliberalism.

      • Draco T Bastard 13.1.1

        Dead right Anne. “At the moment they don’t see a hell of a lot of difference ‘……. believe it or not that’s because there isn’t a hell of a lot of difference. It’s the very problem we’ve been banging on about for months.

        For some of us it’s actually been years. The Labour leadership continue to fail to listen.

    • Chooky 13.2

      +100 Anne and Garibaldi…imo they need to extend an olive branch of peace to Hone Harawira and the Mana/Internet Party…and bring it in to the same MOU .

      This would really attract the attention of voters and the working class/underclass in New Zealand!

      ….but I doubt Labour would be willing to do this….which means to me it is really NOT a working class party for grassroots /flaxroots NZers but has turned into a Liberal Party

      • Garibaldi 13.2.1

        I couldn’t agree more Chucky. Like you I doubt that Labour has got the sense to get Hone back( by getting Kelvin higher on the list).

      • Leftie 13.2.2

        Doesn’t help that Hone is trying to snuggle up to National’s Maori party that will eat up the Mana party for it’s own survival, like the Nats did to Act. Would have thought Hone should be talking to the Lab/Greens, who have given an open invitation to any party to join them to change the government, instead of the Maori party that have no intention of leaving the Nats, despite Hone saying he won’t support anyone that supports National. So what’s Hone going to do? the onus is on him.

    • BM 13.3

      You need people with charisma,appeal and likability to be able to sell a new concept.

      The dour and angry Andrew Little, in combination with the sanctimonious Metiria Turei are not really the people you want for that job.

      Who could fill that role on the left?, no idea.

      • Richard Rawshark 13.3.1

        Andrew doesn’t come across like that, over the last two years of attempting to get that angry andy label to stick, it really hasn’t.

        at all mate.

        In fact he’s quite calm under pressure, when his seat collapsed twice I saw a bloke who took it in his stride.

        Charisma, err ive seen more from a dead fish, but there’ a glimmer, you couldn’t say Helen has Charisma, more like the matron you dare not piss off. So that’s not everything.

        keys clown Charisma’s starting to wear thin though now mate, I mean there’s only so long people will support his easy going couldn’t give a fuck ways.., swings and round-abouts.

        Is Keys prefered PM status still at those all time rock star highs mate? Or has Farrar been spending more time with his Nazi beliefs and running the tax and ratepayers joke.

        Where does the little fuck get time to sleep I wonder..

    • Colonial Viper 13.4

      As Bryan Gould postulates, Labour need to show a far greater willingness to respond to National with a totally different value system that means something to people in this day and age.

      But you wouldn’t want to ‘scare the horses’ would you, by presenting options that ‘swing voting middle class NZ’ would find controversial, unorthodox or plain unacceptable.

      • BM 13.4.1

        It’s how you sell it.

        The left desperately needs sales people, the best thing they could ever do is send their MPs on a few sales courses.

        • Colonial Viper 13.4.1.1

          The best sales people are utterly authentic in their belief in the product or service that they are trying to sell.

          Labour MPs are capitalists, they believe in free markets and in free trade, they believe that NZ cannot afford NZ super without drastic cut backs.

          So that’s what they have to try and sell, because they certainly don’t believe in “democratic socialism”, as stated in the party’s own constitution, no more.

          • BM 13.4.1.1.1

            Yes, that’s a real stumbling block to being successful in selling a concept or product, if you don’t believe what you’re promoting is any good then you’ll never be successful.

            Which then raises the question why do left wing people support Labour?, they’re obviously not the party that’s going to promote what they want?

            Is it more to do with there’s no one else?

            • Colonial Viper 13.4.1.1.1.1

              Which then raises the question why do left wing people support Labour?, they’re obviously not the party that’s going to promote what they want?

              Well, I have been asking the same questions, and it is an unpopular subject to broach with some, because as far as I can see: old time loyalty/lesser of 2 evils.

              • BM

                The only thing I can think of is that it would be easier to modify an existing brand such as Labour than try and start a party from scratch.

                The problem with that theory is what you’ve pointed out before is that the power lies inn a very small group of people, who you can’t change.

              • Stuart Munro

                There’s a pragmatism too – thus far no left block can oust Key without Labour (without resorting to physicality).

            • The Chairman 13.4.1.1.1.2

              “Which then raises the question why do left wing people support Labour?, they’re obviously not the party that’s going to promote what they want?”

              I think most don’t (which is evident in Labour’s election result). From what I’ve gathered most of them no longer partake for that very reason (they see no difference between the two).

              Others have moved to the Greens or NZ First.

              • BM

                Still the largest left party by a long way and I don’t really consider NZ first as left, more old school conservative.

                • The Chairman

                  “Still the largest left party….”

                  For those that still partake. Largely living off its legacy of being the party of the left.

                  However, it’s now a centrist party.

                  NZF may be more old school conservative, but with Labour moving so far right, NZF have become more left than Labour in a number of areas.

              • Richard Rawshark

                I support labour because I believe a union man like Andrew will do the right thing when he is PM. For working people, and in fact all NZ’ers.

                I think he will and has the right attitude to make a fair NZ and keep the Greens better idea’s rolling along and holding their more whack idea’s in check.

                The other lot seem to only help themselves?

      • Anne 13.4.2

        But you wouldn’t want to ‘scare the horses’ would you, by presenting options that ‘swing voting middle class NZ’ would find controversial, unorthodox or plain unacceptable.

        Well, that’s a view that is less acceptable to most Labour members than you are prepared to admit CV. The so-called middle of the road voters can’t be completely ignored, but my argument (and Bryan Gould’s I think) is that Lab and Greens need to re-think their values strategy in such a way they are seen to represent a whole new approach to governance that will hopefully encourage voters to contemplate voting for them again. So far, it hasn’t happened and it won’t happen unless the two parties work as one for this coming election. It will mean some concessions on both sides of course. For starters, the Greens have grown their polling numbers since the last election but they may have to be prepared to sacrifice any further growth in the interest of electoral success. Labour also will have to concede some of their voters to the Greens and not try to lure them back.

        I have long viewed Lab. and the Greens as an electoral entity and that should be the way of the future. It’s time they publicly acted as such (both parties can still maintain their individual personalities) so that the rest of the population starts to recognise them in the same way. If, and when it happens the media story will start to change and that will have an impact on the voters’ perceptions.

        • Garibaldi 13.4.2.1

          Anne I hope your idea of ” concessions ” encompasses working the electorate seat by seat to get an optimal result for the Left? Because, like Key, I believe we have to do what it takes to win. It’s no use pussyfooting around doing otherwise and if the MOU doesn’t include this then I think it wiil be fruitless.

          • Anne 13.4.2.1.1

            Anne I hope your idea of ” concessions ” encompasses working the electorate seat by seat to get an optimal result for the Left?

            Totally.

            I’m on record here more times than I can remember and have stated my view at in-house Labour meetings… telling them “to stop bloody pussyfooting around” and say and do what they mean dah de dah de dah. 😈

        • Colonial Viper 13.4.2.2

          I know and you know Anne that the Labour membership is often far to the Left of the Parliamentary Labour Party. The issue is that the PLP think that the general membership are largely unrealistic and uninformed about what ‘mainstream NZ’ would be prepared to accept in terms of left wing policy.

          • Anne 13.4.2.2.1

            Yes, CV. I know. But the PLP is getting closer to the membership little by little – pun wasn’t intended but appropriate. I’ve listened carefully to the rhetoric coming from some who were regarded as being to the right of the party and have picked up an encouraging move back towards the membership. In one case in particular, I’ve been so pleased with their recent reflections that I’m once again a strong supporter of the MP concerned.

  13. Chooky 14

    So legalisation of medicinal marijuana or cannabis is NOT the problem for the elderly and those in pain in New Zealand ….but corporate capture BIG PHARMA prescription opiods is! ( are New Zealand politicians also captured ?)

    ….BIG PHARMA is a multi billion dollar pain killer industry and it opposes the legalisation of medicinal marijuana or medicinal cannabis!

    THE PROBLEM in the USA:

    ‘Americans consume vast majority of the world’s opioids’

    http://www.cnbc.com/2016/04/27/americans-consume-almost-all-of-the-global-opioid-supply.html

    https://www.drugabuse.gov/about-nida/legislative-activities/testimony-to-congress/2016/americas-addiction-to-opioids-heroin-prescription-drug-abuse

    http://www.asam.org/docs/default-source/advocacy/opioid-addiction-disease-facts-figures.pdf

    THE PROBLEM in NEW ZEALAND:

    While the elderly New Zealanders and others in pain suffer because this government and Peter Dunne has denied them legal access to medicinal cannibas…there are political lobby groups involved and big Bucks..pharmaceutical companies and the alcohol industry

    ‘Opioid use decreases in US states that legalize medical marijuana – study’

    https://www.rt.com/usa/359655-marijuana-laws-opioid-usage/

    “New research shows a decline in the use of opioid painkillers in US states that allow people to treat pain with medical marijuana, affirming the fears of Big Pharma who have been vigorously seeking to frustrate efforts to legalize the herb….

    “Given the growing opioid overdose epidemic, campaigning against medical marijuana is morally repugnant.”

    “We cannot allow prescription drug companies to block the legalization of #medicalcannabis http://huff.to/2clBjZY”

    “Addictive painkiller profiteer donates $500k to fight cannabis legalization in #Arizona http://on.rt.com/7oux”

    …”Insys isn’t the first pharmaceutical company to be found bankrolling anti-marijuana legislation though with a number of alcohol and pharmaceutical companies “heavily” invested in such laws in a number of states, according to The Intercept.

    https://theintercept.com/2016/09/14/beer-pot-ballot/

  14. Puckish Rogue 15

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11712476

    Well, well, well things are getting interesting in Zimbabwe

  15. joe90 16

    Turning back the clock.

    Here is the letter signed by Trump himself, which the Trump/Pence campaign delivered to his “pro-life” base of support this week, released by the anti-abortion, forced birth organization that styles itself, perversely, as the “Susan B. Anthony List:”

    I am committed to:
    Nominating pro-life justices to the U.S. Supreme Court.
    Signing into law the Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act, which would end painful late-term abortions nationwide.
    Defunding Planned Parenthood as long as they continue to perform abortions…
    Making the Hyde Amendment permanent law to protect taxpayers from having to pay for abortions.

    The Susan B. Anthony list is an extremist, anti-woman group that opposes a woman’s right to an abortion in all circumstances and also opposes many forms of contraception.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/9/16/1571102/-While-The-Media-Fixated-On-Birtherism-Here-Is-What-Trump-Pledged-To-Do-To-Women-s-Rights

    • Chooky 16.1

      On the other hand:

      ‘How Donald Trump Is Trying to Win Over Women Voters’

      http://time.com/4495895/donald-trump-womens-issues/

      “By championing child care, paid maternity leave, and over-the-counter birth control

      In an attempt to chip away at Hillary Clinton’s double-digit lead with women voters, Donald Trump is ditching some aspects of GOP orthodoxy and embracing feminist stances on contraception, child care and paid leave….

      ( Trump on the abortion issue is still not good however…In this day and age of USA poverty, world over- population and womens rights …abortion should be a woman’s choice and safe medical abortion should be state funded and free as it is in most Western countries

      …presumably Trump would support the ‘morning after pill’ as a method of contraception and over the counter

      ….but this is not enough for unwanted pregnancies later term, which for various reasons women and girls did not terminate earlier…women should not be forced into the desperation and dangers of backstreet abortions)

      • joe90 16.1.1

        Yeah, offering pittance paid for by eliminating all those undeserving welfare bludgers is a winner.

      • Sabine 16.1.2

        you might want to acquaint yourself with Mike Pence before you gush to much about Trump and his ‘generosity’ to women.

        https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/donald-trump-commits-to-defunding-abortion-planned-parenthood-if-elected

        Also keep in mind, that neither of the blokes will ever be pregnant, nor will they ever take the pill, nor will they ever risk their lives by giving birth, nor will they ever have to choose between career and child rearing or home making if you prefer that term, nor will they ever be told by a Pharmacist that that over the counter pill, or plan b. or condoms, will not be handed out cause its against the religious believes of the pharmacist who happens to believe that the Pill is an abortifact and that every sexual encounter should lead to blessings from god until the uterus falls out or the incubator dies in childbirth.

        but then Trump will make America great again. and who gives a shit about a few women who might not get to see that great great tremendously great day cause they could not get the health care they needed cause the life of the unborn baby (or clumps of cells that have miscarriaged).
        https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/19/mike-pence-republicans-defund-planned-parenthood-abortion

        but then hey, as Trump said if women had abortions they should be punished?
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1Jpoecf0xY

        but then he retracted that comment, maybe he mis – spoke or maybe his daughter told him to shut up, or maybe someone told him that a whole lot of women in the US have abortions every year and how would you punish them? Murder 1? or like the Lady in the ling below – both fetizide and murder? Ahh, i am sure tomorrow he will say something else.

        https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/30/donald-trump-women-abortions-punishment

        Maybe punishment should look like 20 years for fetizide and murder cause why the fuck not?
        https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/22/purvi-patel-abortion-sentence-reduced

        Mike Pence https://www.reddit.com/r/Indiana/comments/4u6qfr/why_is_mike_pence_disliked_in_indiana/

        and do keep in mind, that should Trump die the next in line to the Presidency is Mike Pence. Even tho, no one really likes to think about that. Cause ….Hillary. OR something.

        But hey nothing of that matters, cause Trump is gonna defund Planned Parenthood, the one clinic all over the US that offers affordable healthcare to women who otherwise may not have the funds to get it.
        Cause nothing says i ma gonna love me some wimmin then taking away their health care provider and the place that offers sexual health care. And his women will still get their abortions should they need them, cause they have the cash and the passports to leave the country.

        Fuck sake, be a Trumpie all you want, but don’t pretend that anyone running on the republican ticket will offer anything to women in regards to healthcare.

        • Chooky 16.1.2.1

          who exactly is “gushing”?…sounds like you…or is it frothing?

        • Colonial Viper 16.1.2.2

          For every 12 women who will vote for Hillary Clinton, at least ten women will vote for Trump, according to the latest LA Times/USC tracking poll of 3000 voters.

          So Trump is not that far behind Clinton when it comes to support from women.

          My bet is that he will close that gap further, and gain support from more women.

          But hey nothing of that matters, cause Trump is gonna defund Planned Parenthood, the one clinic all over the US that offers affordable healthcare to women who otherwise may not have the funds to get it.

          Yes, Trump said that he will defund PP if and only if they continue to do abortions.

          But it’ll be one of those things that he won’t quite get around to actually doing, like building The Wall.

  16. Halfcrown 17

    Another river stuffed up by birds and drought. Well, that is if you believe Professor Rowarth.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/84116972/no-longer-swimmable-a-community-mourns-its-lost-river

    • Chooky 17.1

      ..a tragedy but at least it has water still in it….our local river is a dirty little trickle…not enough even for a swimming hole…once upon a time people from Christchurch used to spend their summer holidays by it camping

      ….those were the days when even the poor were wealthy in the things that mattered

  17. Morrissey 18

    WashPost Makes History: First Paper to Call for
    Prosecution of Its Own Source (After Accepting Pulitzer)

    by GLENN GREENWALD, The Intercept, Sept. 19, 2016

    THREE OF THE four media outlets that received and published large numbers of secret NSA documents provided by Edward Snowden — The Guardian, the New York Times, and The Intercept –– have called for the U.S. government to allow the NSA whistleblower to return to the U.S. with no charges. That’s the normal course for a news organization, which owes its sources duties of protection, and which — by virtue of accepting the source’s materials and then publishing them — implicitly declares the source’s information to be in the public interest.

    But not the Washington Post. In the face of a growing ACLU and Amnesty-led campaign to secure a pardon for Snowden, timed to this weekend’s release of the Oliver Stone biopic “Snowden,” the Post editorial page today not only argued in opposition to a pardon, but explicitly demanded that Snowden — the paper’s own source — stand trial on espionage charges or, as a “second-best solution,” accept “a measure of criminal responsibility for his excesses and the U.S. government offers a measure of leniency.”

    ……

    Read more….
    https://theintercept.com/2016/09/18/washpost-makes-history-first-paper-to-call-for-prosecution-of-its-own-source-after-accepting-pulitzer/

  18. Morrissey 19

    Hillary Clinton: Boycotting North Carolina Is Noble
    and Just; Boycotting Israel Is Bigoted and Hateful

    by GLENN GREENWALD, The Intercept, Sept. 14, 2016

    ….Could someone explain why it’s noble, enlightened, justifiable, and progressive to boycott an American state, but hateful, bigoted, retrograde, and evil to support a boycott of a foreign country that has been imposing a brutal, discriminatory, and illegal occupation for many decades, a boycott that is led by people with virtually no political rights? How did that happen? Hillary Clinton is far from the only person espousing this bizarre distinction — New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, as but one example, is punishing companies that support a boycott of Israel while forcing state employees to honor the boycott of North Carolina — but what could possibly justify U.S. politicians drawing the moral and ethical lines about boycotts in this manner?

    …..

    Read more….
    https://theintercept.com/2016/09/13/hillary-clinton-boycotting-north-carolina-is-noble-and-just-boycotting-israel-is-bigoted-and-hateful/

    • Chooky 19.1

      +100 Morrissey…thanx for those links…Greenwald is a journalist always worth reading and listening to

  19. Sabine 20

    voting today,
    so many nice talented Labour and Greens people to give a tick.

  20. Penny Bright 21

    My response to Chris Trotter’s latest post on The Daily Blog promoting ‘the surge’ for ‘millennial’ Auckland Mayoral candidate, Chloe Swarbrick.

    I like Chloe.

    She’s friendly, personable, articulate and presents very well on the campaign trail.

    Her policies – not so much.

    Chloe supports privatisation via Public-Private-Partnerships (PPPs).

    More significantly, Chloe supports the Auckland Unitary Plan and intensification, as do Generation Zero.

    In my considered opinion, this ‘One Plan’ for Auckland has been ‘democracy for developers’ and dominated by the interests of commercial property developers and investors represented by the NZ Property Council.

    Auckland Council and most Auckland Council Controlled Organisations (CCOs) are members of the NZ Property Council, which in my considered opinion, as an anti-corruption campaigner is a significant and arguably corrupt ‘conflict of interest’.

    As ‘activists get things done’ I have petitioned Parliament for an inquiry and provided evidence recently to the Local Government and Environment Select Committee in support of my petition, calling for an inquiry into the alleged conflict of interest regarding Auckland Council’s membership of the NZ Property Council.

    In my considered opinion, Generation Zero, in their support for the Auckland Unitary Plan and intensification, pushing the line that those residents and ratepayers attempting to defend their local communities against decimation by developers, are effectively been promoted as selfish baby boomers stopping young people from getting their foot on the property ladder.

    How convenient for the NZ Property Council to have these young advocates, on the same page, singing their same tune, but in a way that is far more effective pushing young vs old than if this were done by suited middle-aged property developers?

    In my considered opinion, Generation Zero are effectively the ‘Youth Branch’ of the NZ Property Council.

    Unlike all the Auckland Mayoral candidates, (including Chloe) I am actively opposed to corrupt corporate control by the 1%, locally, nationally and internationally.

    For years I have actively campaigned against Council (Corporate) Controlled Organisations (CCOs), Public-Private-Partnerships (PPPs) and the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA).

    Because I am the only Auckland Mayoral candidate directly standing up to corrupt corporate control by the 1%, the effective censorship I have been facing by (corporate controlled) mainstream media is simply breath-taking in how blatant it has been.

    In 2013, in the only poll that counts, the election result, I polled 4th, with 11,723 votes.

    That was before Auckland Council tried to force the rating sale of my freehold home, over my disputing and refusing to pay rates because of the Council’s failure to disclose where exactly public monies are being spent on private sector consultants and contractors.

    Although some citizens (who are not familiar with their lawful rights and the Council’s statutory obligations under s.17 of the Public Records Act 2005 (google it), apparently want me to have a frontal lobotomy and forget mine, and just be a good sheepish slave and just pay my rates, like they do, I’m not budging until I get the transparency to which I, and all citizens are entitled.

    So, that is why, unlike Chloe, I’m not getting the TV coverage and being excluded from mainstream media Auckland Mayoral debates.

    The real debate would be between myself and Phil Goff.

    The topic?

    Rogernomic$ wrecked Auckland.

    What do you say to that Chris?

    A real ‘meat and spuds’ debate on the substantive issues, rather than the candy floss ‘bubble and fluff’ we’re getting now?

    Kind regards

    Penny Bright

    2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.

    ‘Activists – get things done’

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