Open mike 20/03/2020

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, March 20th, 2020 - 128 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

128 comments on “Open mike 20/03/2020 ”

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  1. Phil 1
    19 March 2020 at 12:54 pm

    Hey Bill

    In a previous US election post, you suggested voter fraud in Super Tuesday results. You relied on TDMS research for evidence. Turns out TDMS was being "misleading at best and corrosive at worst."

    https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/no-huge-red-flag-that-fraud-occurred-in-mass-primary/

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • bill 1.1
      19 March 2020 at 7:55 pm

      Hey Phil. Here's the bit that matters.

      Importantly, it used exit poll numbers from 8 p.m. on the day of the primary, according to the table. Those numbers were updated two hours later, though, according to CNN, the outlet cited in the table.

      What does "updated" mean? My understanding is that as published results come in, the exit poll numbers are shifted or altered to better accord with the published count. You see the problem there, right?

      If votes have been flipped, then the exit poll numbers will be shifted, and guess what?… "Nothing to See Here". That's why the initial exit poll numbers are used.

      Besides, you'd reasonably expect inaccurate exit polls to shift this way and that way in relation to the published count, yes? But when they only shift on favour of "establishment" candidates and against "non- establishment" candidates in state after state, well….

      And you also might want to reflect on the leanings of Facebook's "fact checking" orgs. and not just uncritically accept what they say.

      edit. Almost forgot. The same methodology was used for the 2016 primaries, and as mentioned in my original post, the Republican Primaries were almost all within the margins of error while Democratic ones (with polling taken at the same time for each party’s primary) were out of whack in favour of Clinton.

      • Phil 1.1.1
        20 March 2020 at 5:02 pm

        "Updated" in this context means that Edison Research adjust their exit polling data to account for sample bias in the exit poll.

        Even with the best practices, there is no way an exit poll can guarantee that its raw sample of exit interviews is genuinely representative of people voting over the course of a day in a particular precinct.

        To put it in the broadest possible terms, they're sort of working backwards in comparison to a traditional poll – instead of applying an assumed turnout model to a raw poll sample, they're applying a poll model to a raw turnout sample.

        • Bill 1.1.1.1
          20 March 2020 at 5:15 pm

          No. They already know the various bias in the exit poll, and any "updating" of the exit poll after polling booths have closed is in reaction to numbers coming from the published count ie, shifting exit poll numbers to better correlate with the numbers coming from the count.

          In relation to the Massachusetts results, as explained on the TDMS site (my emphasis) – As this first published exit poll was subsequently adjusted towards conformity with the final computerized vote count, the currently published exit poll [on CNN] differs from the results above.

          I've no idea why the international gold standard used for suggesting something may be awry in an election is suddenly to be thrown aside when the election results in question are Democratic Primary ones, but hey…

          • Phil 1.1.1.1.1
            20 March 2020 at 5:57 pm

            They already know the various bias in the exit poll,

            That's just a plain old dumb statement. An exit poll is a sample and, by definition, you cannot know the bias in the sample until the actual results of the fucking election are in front of you. If you cannot understand how that leads to adjustment as real results start to roll in… that's entirely on you, kid.

            I've no idea why the international gold standard used for suggesting something may be awry in an election is suddenly to be thrown aside

            Quit making shit up. Exit polling is not "the gold standard" for monitoring potential election fraud in the slightest. You're being ridiculous.

            • Bill 1.1.1.1.1.1
              20 March 2020 at 6:53 pm

              Your first paragraph (if true) would mean that exit polls could not and would not be used for the detection of possible election fraud.

              But, as written in the actual post on all of this, exit polling is precisely what is used to detect possible fraud.

              Now, you can wave your arms around the place all that you like on that front, and you can even assert I'm making stuff up and that I'm ridiculous…but it won't alter the fact of the matter.

  2. Tony Veitch (not etc.) 2
    20 March 2020 at 7:10 am

    I want to stress I’m not trying to start a rumour, but just curious, or as they say on twitter – asking for a friend.

    With many commentators suggesting this coronavirus crisis could last six months or longer and causing immense damage to our society and (I feel like I want to use a smaller font) the economy, what is the constitutional situation around voting in the middle of a pandemic?

    Are there any rules around delaying an election, or cancelling one altogether?

    On a lighter note, last night in bed my wife and I indulged in a little intimate elbow bumping.

    To be frank, I don’t think it’ll ever replace ‘the real thing,’ but at my age, the real thing is becoming a distant memory, so intimate elbow bumping will have to do!

    It amused us, which is as much as the real thing ever did, I suppose.

  5. Sanctuary 5
    20 March 2020 at 8:51 am

    Governments are building hospitals in weeks, rapidly training medical aides, mobilising resources and opening the cheque books to prop up economies. It is impressive to see the nation state in action in the interests of their people, especially after decades of being told it is an out of date concept.

    • alwyn 5.1
      20 March 2020 at 9:48 am

      "Governments are building hospitals in weeks, rapidly training medical aides,".

      Is this true of our Government? The most energetic thing I have seen from our Health Minister, and one of his Associate Ministers, was to see them on TV watching someone get a flu jab.

      I would far rather have seen them trying to speed up the supply of ventilators or ICU beds in our hospitals.

      [second comment from this mod. There’s very little leeway here for comments that look like they intend to undermine the govt in such a serious crisis. Genuine critique of policy and actions that prompts constructive debate is good. This kind of smeary trolling has a pretty limited lifespan. If you haven’t seen it already I suggest you also read my comment to you from yesterday – weka]

      • Sanctuary 5.1.1
        20 March 2020 at 9:57 am

        I doubt you reflect the mood of the nation.

        I just overheard in my local cafe getting coffee:

        The persona dramatis: Middle aged white guy, clearly a self-employed tradie of some sort. The core of John Key's base.

        He said to the lady working behind the counter: "Even as a National supporter I have got to admit she (I assume he means the PM) is handling it reasonably well" followed by "Simon Bridges doesn't seem to understand that the essence of being a New Zealander is getting on with doing the job and not complaining all the time." BTW i am not necessarily agreeing with that last statement… But it shows widespread satisfaction with tje handling of the crisis by the government.

        Simon, Jacinda is eating your lunch big time.

        • I Feel Love 5.1.1.1
          20 March 2020 at 10:24 am

          I think so too, most people I know and hear from are not even thinking politics, just getting on with their own lives and keeping themselves and their families safe.

        • alwyn 5.1.1.2
          20 March 2020 at 10:55 am

          "I doubt you reflect the mood of the nation.".

          I'm sure I don't. The public will be, at least for a while, totally enamoured with her approach. She does that part of politics superbly. Actual implementation of policy doesn't turn out as well, as KiwiBuild demonstrated.

          Personally I expect there to be a snap election. Announce lots of plans for handling the virus and then declare that full support for the Government must be seen to be assured and call a snap election. My pick would be for 30 May or 6 June. I think they would probably get back with Labour and NZF though I don't think the Green Party will survive. Ms Ardern has completely overshadowed them.

          On the other hand hanging on until September won't cut it. People will have had enough long before six more months are up and the virus hasn't gone away and deaths are occurring. It won't be deserved but the Government will cop the flack for the restrictions still going on.

          That is what I can see as being the way for Labour to get another term. Shame it will mean that Winstone will still be there though.

          And yes, I have seen the mod comments and understand where you are coming from.

          • In Vino 5.1.1.2.1
            20 March 2020 at 3:51 pm

            Trying to be clever as usual, alwyn? I don't think you are aware of the environmental concerns of the base of Green Party support. You never demonstrate such concern yourself, and may be a covert denialist?

            Whatever happens, and however bad the Greens are made to look by righties, I think there is an enlightened 5+% of our electorate who will always vote Green, simply because all other parties are far worse for the long term.

            • alwyn 5.1.1.2.1.1
              20 March 2020 at 5:56 pm

              You think there is 5+% who will always vote Green. I don't. That is really the only difference between us.

              No doubt we will see when the election comes around who is right. In the meantime I'm sure you won't let it upset you if their Poll numbers were to droop.

              You will, I presume, also accept the will of the people if the bulk of the Green vote is vacuumed up by the Labour Party?

              • In Vino …
                20 March 2020 at 6:16 pm

                Of course, but will you even remember that you asked me, if it turns out that you are writing rubbish? And I think you meant 'drop' rather than 'droop'.

                • alwyn …
                  20 March 2020 at 7:15 pm

                  You are a careful reader. I really did mean droop actually.

                  The current lot of MPs strike me as so dreadfully wet that "droop" seemed totally appropriate.

                  As far as being wrong goes I will admit that I may be wrong. I don't think describing the views as being "rubbish" is quite valid though.

                  • In Vino …
                    20 March 2020 at 7:18 pm

                    Time will tell for both of us. (If the virus does not take us out…)

                    • alwyn …
                      20 March 2020 at 8:43 pm

                      "

                      (If the virus does not take us out…)"

                      Ouch! Did you really need to remind me of my advancing years?

          • Peter 5.1.1.2.2
            20 March 2020 at 5:46 pm

            I'm wondering about politicians whose approaches the public may not have been notably enamoured with. If they didn't do that part of politics superbly and were so incompetent they left their successor needing to come up with policies such as KiwiBuild, albeit them not 'turning out well', what does that say about them?

            Did they have sycophantic followers forcibly telling us how brilliant they were ?

            • alwyn 5.1.1.2.2.1
              20 March 2020 at 6:06 pm

              "Did they have sycophantic followers".

              Of course they did. Don't you remember people contributing to blogs who considered, in turn, that Helen Clark, Goff, Shearer, Cunliffe and Little were the greatest thing since sliced bread?

              Shearer was actually pretty good. If they hadn't rolled him and kept so many no-hopers around, we would have had a competent option to the incumbents in the 2017 election. I would certainly have welcomed it.

              But he was the only one if you look at Clark from about 2004 onwards. Before that she was pretty capable. Then she got the same disease that Muldoon and Bolger caught in their third terms.

              • In Vino …
                20 March 2020 at 6:25 pm

                Rubbish, alwyn. Shearer had no idea, and murdered himself with that ridiculous photo of himself holding up a big, dead fish. Without ever sounding convincing before or after.

                Cunliffe would have had a chance if he had not misunderestimated the simplistic nature of the not-to-bright Kiwi male, and had his apology for being a male misrepresented by the NZ media.

                Little still lacks charisma – maybe his only failing.

                And personally, I never warmed to Helen Clark. But she did achieve the sliced bread thing.

              • McFlock …
                20 March 2020 at 6:41 pm

                I can remember some people who thought Shearer wasn't abysmal (me included), and some people who loved Cunliffe (while I wasn't overly impressed), and some people who liked Little (ISTR I did), but I don't recall any particular commenter here who loved each one "in turn".

                • alwyn …
                  20 March 2020 at 7:19 pm

                  "who loved each one "in turn"".

                  I'll admit I would be very hard pressed to actually identify a single person who did take their opinions quite so far.

                  I do know some Labour Party members though who did think that way. The one the Party currently had as the leader was the only possible candidate for the greatest politician in the country.

                  Dead boring they mostly were to talk to though.

                  • In Vino …
                    20 March 2020 at 7:32 pm

                    And did you enjoy rewarding conversations with any of National's leaders?

                    • alwyn …
                      20 March 2020 at 8:21 pm

                      It was the party members who were boring, not the party leaders.

                      I can't think of more than a handful of people I have met who became MPs who were boring. That would be among at least a hundred, and possibly 200 people. People who make into the MPs ranks are usually interesting to talk to and appear to be genuinely interested in whoever it is they are talking to. They have to be like that or I am sure they would go mad.

                  • McFlock …
                    20 March 2020 at 7:47 pm

                    Well, even if that story is true, there's a fair chance that they were aware that any conversation with you would be quickly retransmitted as "I do know some Labour Party members who really dislike the current leader and much prefer [X]".

                    • alwyn …
                      20 March 2020 at 8:29 pm

                      I find that comment offensive. I do not, ever, divulge the contents of personal conversations with people who aren't in the business professionally. I feel quite entitled to make derogatory remarks about people, MPs usually, who are claiming the right to set the rules for how I am allowed to behave. I don't claim the same right about people who don't want to decide what I am allowed to do.

                      You will never find any such comment by me anywhere.

                      Incidentally I am not, and never have been, a member of a Political Party. I don't trust any professional Politician. I respect the competent ones, and certainly don't respect the idiots but I don't trust any of them.

                      They are all in it for themselves.

                    • McFlock …
                      20 March 2020 at 8:42 pm

                      I didn't mean you'd actually name the members.

                      Just that you'd gleefully report the lack of confidence in a Labour leader in the same way you just reported that they had confidence in every leader Labour had.

                    • alwyn …
                      21 March 2020 at 10:15 am

                      Oh dear. You really are in a unhappy mood, aren't you?

                      Now why on earth do you suggest I would do that? I haven't and I won't do any such thing.

                      Perhaps I should use Yodaish Star Wars Remarks to describe you? How about 'The bile is bitter in that one'?

                      Alternatively I could use variants on the, probably apocryphal, statement of Lise Meitner. "I think you are confusing me with Professor Hahn".

                      In your case I think you are confusing me with Cinny.

                      https://thestandard.org.nz/daily-review-18-03-2020/#comment-1692574

                      https://thestandard.org.nz/burning-bridges/#comment-1692769

                      [take the weekend off. As amusing as it is to see McFlock calmly countering your trolling here, I think you’ve now shifted from troll to flame-lite and I don’t want to have to keep track of it – weka]

      • weka 5.1.2
        20 March 2020 at 10:29 am

        mod note.

  6. Macro 6
    20 March 2020 at 10:16 am

    tRump being the racist dick he so thoroughly is…

    When he is supposed to be leading America though a pandemic, he is making hand edits to speeches to scapegoat China.

    image

  7. Andre 7
    20 March 2020 at 10:49 am

    I see things are still nutso at supermarkets.

    Wonder how long it will be until people realise this is going to go on for a while and there will be adequate food and it settles down. Then how much longer after that til it goes real quiet as people realise maybe they'd better start eating their massive stockpiles before it goes bad.

    • Bill 7.1
      20 March 2020 at 11:13 am

      Toilet roll sandwiches?

      I don't understand why supermarkets aren't setting aside specific hours for old and other vulnerable people to shop btw.

      And as for the monied middle classes wiping shelves clean in states of panic, meaning that "week to week" grocery shoppers can't get the shit they regularly buy – well, I hope the fuckers choke.

    • veutoviper 7.2
      20 March 2020 at 11:14 am

      I think I heard on RNZ National in the early hours of the morning that there had also be a major run of sales of freezers – but not about to try to find a link for this.

      Some will be much more concerned about this innovative change in direction by a Martinborough gin distillery – what are they going to put with their 300 glasses of tonic water a day* to ward off COVID-19?

      * Oh wait – who was it here talking about this in the last few days? LOL

      – https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018739355/covid-19-gin-distillery-trialling-making-hand-sanitiser

      • Brigid 7.2.1
        20 March 2020 at 11:23 am

        Nobody needs fucking hand sanitizer. Soap and water is a better way to clean hands.

        Why are people so goddamned stupid.

        • veutoviper 7.2.1.1
          20 March 2020 at 12:08 pm

          "Nobody needs fucking hand sanitiser" and "Why are people so goddamned stupid"

          I agree that soap and water – and proper washing and drying – is a better way to clean hands but there are situations where hand sanitiser is a convenient – dare I say it a necessary – substitute for some people, including medicos such as ambulance staff etc.

          As I know from personal experience, people sometimes find themselves in situations where they have to carry out necessary medical procedures but there are no available hand washing facilities or these are not clean enough to use.

          In such situations hand sanitiser is a godsend for people such as those with diabetes who need to inject insulin regularly or urgently; or those with glaucoma who have to apply eye drops throughout the course of the day, as your hands have to be extremely clean for these types of procedures.

          Personally I have found people with diabetes and/or glaucoma, for example, no more or less "goddamned stupid" that those who see things in such black and white terms as your comment suggests.

          • veutoviper 7.2.1.1.1
            20 March 2020 at 12:20 pm

            Ooops – don't know how that double posting happened and its too late for me to delete one!

            • Incognito 7.2.1.1.1.1
              20 March 2020 at 12:31 pm

              Sorted 🙂

              • veutoviper …
                20 March 2020 at 2:47 pm

                Thanks. FYI or lprent's, it just did it again with my reply to Rosemary McD at 6.2.1.1.3.1 which again popped up twice – one with the ability to edit and one with no ability. Deleted the one with the ability to edit after checking all OK.

                Will see what happens with this one …
                All OK – only one this time.

          • Brigid 7.2.1.1.2
            20 March 2020 at 1:43 pm

            Then why not just use meths? After all hand sanitiser is mostly alchohol. Do people not know this? I suspect not.

            I see there's plenty still in Mitrebe 10.

            • Rosemary McDonald 7.2.1.1.2.1
              20 March 2020 at 1:45 pm

              Meths would be fine…according my my chemist Offspring, but you might want to soften it with a bit of something or other…wink

              • McFlock …
                20 March 2020 at 4:21 pm

                One option we were looking at for a venue was aloe moisturiser as the "softener", so like 1/3 moisturiser 2/3 alcohol.

                Ended up not bothering because it's not a recipe put about by moh or public health officers here, as far as we know. Could get confused between weight and volume and all that jazz.

          • Rosemary McDonald 7.2.1.1.3
            20 March 2020 at 1:43 pm

            Yes, veutoviper…lots and lots of soap and water handwashing here…to the point where the skin is beginning to peel.

            BUT the precious couple of bottles of hand sanitizer I keep for just those medical type situations are worth their weight at the moment.

            If you've ever seen the rigmarole the medics go through catheterising some bloke…then imagine doing that procedure while parked on the side of the road in your housebus…

            BTW, hand sanitizer theoretically has a shelf life limit…I stabbed my hand the other day, and after allowing the deep wound to bleed one of the Offspring dug up a very old bottle from his car. Stung like absolute buggery…so my guess is it's still good. Wound has healed well.

            Horses for courses, and hold fire with the censure eh?

            • veutoviper 7.2.1.1.3.1
              20 March 2020 at 2:41 pm

              Agree re the stinging etc! But would certainly not use meths pre injecting or near eyes … And it does not come in small sizes like hand sanitiser for popping in a pocket or bag.

              I recently did a search through the house, and in bags etc and came up with a surprising number of part used hand sanitizer bottles of various sizes and ages which for the most part seem OK. Local supermaket owner is awaiting new stocks and is going to keep some off the shelves for customers like myself who she knows have an ongoing use/need for it.

              Re shelf time limits, like a lot of things whether these are important or extendable really depends on the type of product, its stability and how/where it has been stored. According to my brother chemist, (snap!) hand sanitiser should be OK provided it has been kept in a cool dark place. If left somewhere hot like in a hot car, it often just evaporates. As well as a bigger first aid kit, I have a small "coolie bin" type soft bag (intended for taking lunch to work/school in hot climates) in my car with sanitiser, gloves etc in it which helps overcome evaporation, melting etc problems.

              Re catherising, was trained in such things when mother was dying. I then went on to work as a trained medic volunteer at the local hospice c 10 hours a week for about decade, on top of very demanding jobs in the State Services as one of "them (insert word of choice!) bureaucrats".

              • In Vino …
                20 March 2020 at 3:59 pm

                Back to the run on Freezers… If things go really bad, I suspect that electricity supply could fail as well. So next run should be on petrol/diesel-run power generators, since fuel prices have dropped.

                (Of course, with no power you will be lucky to be able to buy petrol or diesel, because petrol pumps are no longer fitted with hand-pump levers. This should soon result in a run on petrol/diesel..)

                How far will these silly hoarders go?

              • Brigid …
                20 March 2020 at 4:40 pm

                " it does not come in small sizes like hand sanitiser"

                I'm sure if you think hard you'd come up with a solution for that.

                If you want to disinfect a site on the skin prior to injecting use alcohol. Or Iodine.

                Methylated Spirits is denatured alchohol i.e. ethanol. It's every bit as good a disinfectant as the alcohol wipes used by health professionals.

                I can't think of an instant where using alcohol to disinfect hands prior to applying eye drops would cause any problem.

                You aren't expected to disinfect the eye after all. Are you?

                • In Vino …
                  20 March 2020 at 6:33 pm

                  Right… so to prevent infection via the eyes (a major source of infection, since even people wearing masks will unconsciously end up touching their eyes) will people infer that Meth Spirits eyedrops are a good idea?

                  Silly thought, but are there any helpful eyedrops available? I doubt it.

        • Pingao 7.2.1.2
          20 March 2020 at 4:12 pm

          All very well if you access to soap and water … for example if you work away from a building such as in the trade I work in or have just left a public area such as people's homes, public transport, the supermarket, the petrol station etc. Hand sanitiser is very useful.

          • Brigid 7.2.1.2.1
            20 March 2020 at 4:46 pm

            Granted, hand sanitiser is very useful in this case.

            The point I was aiming to make was that every man and his dog does not need a bottle of hand sanitiser. Most can use soap and water to wash their hands.

            The fact that the world seems to have been scoured of every available bottle suggests that people believe that only hand sanitiser will clean their hands. Therefore my assertion that a good few of them are stupid, stands.

            • In Vino 7.2.1.2.1.1
              20 March 2020 at 7:36 pm

              Hence my question about Meths eyedrops. I would love to make up NCEA Level 1 English multi-choice questions about all this.

        • Craig H 7.2.1.3
          20 March 2020 at 4:29 pm

          At home and work that's generally true, but good in the car as a back up since not all public toilets have soap in my experience.

      • Andre 7.2.2
        20 March 2020 at 11:25 am

        Nobody was talking about 300 glasses a day of tonic water, it was G&Ts. The difference matters. And if the gin runs out, I am not substituting in hand sanitiser.

        • veutoviper 7.2.2.1
          20 March 2020 at 11:36 am

          Well the fish are biting well today! I certainly agree that hand sanitiser is no match for good gin with your tonic water, LOL

        • Brigid 7.2.2.2
          20 March 2020 at 4:51 pm

          I don't know why they don't just continue to make gin. Giving everyone the choice to either drink it or disinfect what ever part of their body they like.

          Bloody good accelerant too. Hand sanitiser isn't.

    • AB 7.3
      20 March 2020 at 11:22 am

      Yeah – baked beans three times a week to avoid that sinking feeling of having wasted money.

      The disappearance of my clients gave me a chance to go fishing yesterday – got enough for two meals and still well inside the actual catch limit (keep it sustainable folks). My tiny dinghy with a 5HP motor uses much less than a litre of fuel on an expedition – and it has functioning oars if needed. People in gin-palaces sweep past me with amusement and derision on their faces.

      I also took the advice of the admirable greenies on here and got veggie seeds – things that will grow as it gets colder: rocket, broad beans, bok choi, radishes etc. I am nowhere near delusional enough to believe that self-sufficiency is possible for someone as incompetent as me. But if it wasn't for the fear of us running out of money or dying – things wouldn't be too bad.

        • AB 7.3.1.1
          20 March 2020 at 12:01 pm

          Probably – though I was quite restrained!

          • greywarshark 7.3.1.1.1
            20 March 2020 at 1:48 pm

            There was a full page ad in today's Nelson Mail shared between a bunch of supermarkets requesting people to restrain themselves when shopping and not to buy up large. A good deed.

            In brief they say: Shop like you normally would… some extra but not for weeks ahead.

            Shop in our stores – they are safe. We have thorough cleaning but have increased measures.

            Look out for each other – In times of uncertainty a little kindness goes a long way. Please be kind to fellow shoppers and to our store, supply chain and call centre teams who are working around the clock…They're our heroes.

            PaknSave – New World – 4 Square – Raeward fresh – Countdown – Fresh Choice – Supervalue

            So that is Woolworths NZ (extra info – NZ$6.2 billion fyt June 2018 18,500 employees fully-owned subsidiary of Australian and part of Woolworths Limited Group, which employs more than 190,000 team members globally.)

            Foodstuffs (NZ) Ltd is jointly owned by two New Zealand grocery and liquor retailers' cooperatives, Foodstuffs North Island Limited and Foodstuffs South Island Limited.[1] Together, the two cooperatives collectively control an estimated 53% of the New Zealand grocery market. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foodstuffs

    • Anne 7.4
      20 March 2020 at 1:38 pm

      Andre @ 6.

      It started with toilet rolls – emptied the supermarkets. Then tinned foods – emptied the supermarkets. Then bread – emptied the supermarkets. All of these are now available again. The latest is washing powder. All gone in my local anyway.

      What will be the next item to disappear from the shelves?

      Btw, I happened upon a way to clear the supermarket aisle you occupy from fellow competitors. Sneeze. Preferably two of them and make sure they're loud. I can guarantee from personal experience (yesterday – hayfever) within 10 seconds you will have the aisle to yourself.

      • Brigid 7.4.1
        20 March 2020 at 1:45 pm

        "sneeze.."

        Excellent idea.

      • Andre 7.4.2
        20 March 2020 at 1:47 pm

        Nice fake-out. Especially since sneezing isn't a common symptom of COVID-19. It's coughing that's the worry.

      • Wensleydale 7.4.3
        20 March 2020 at 2:16 pm

        Don't go to the supermarket. Shop at your local corner shop, mini mart or Four Square. All the stuff the rampaging hordes have pillaged from Countdown and Pak 'n' Save is still in good supply at my local mini mart. Sure, it's a little more expensive but it's all there. And they could probably do with the business.

        Watching the braying herds cram stacks of loo roll into their trolleys makes me chuckle. You know when your parents said to you, "If Jamie jumped off a cliff, would you jump off a cliff too?" Turns out that, yes, the human race would fling themselves into oblivion if they saw everyone else doing it. Lemmings, honestly.

        Public Service Announcement: Toilet paper is not going to save you from the Apocalypse.

        • In Vino 7.4.3.1
          20 March 2020 at 4:05 pm

          Come on, Wensetc – it could well be your local corner shop operators who did most of the hoarding…

  8. SPC 8
    20 March 2020 at 11:20 am

    Kiwis in Oz who lose jobs and if stuck without income come back here (we do not have any spare housing and especially not for those won a benefit)

    So either Oz steps up, or we pay them the dole while they are in Oz while in Oz (and and Oz gives them their AS).

  9. Observer Tokoroa 9
    20 March 2020 at 11:48 am

    To: Alwyn

    You endlessly try and belittle the real people of New Zealand.

    Why?

    Is it because the National Party demands that you lust over the struggling poor and

    demand they receive the worst possible Life and Livelyhood ? You dine like Pigs with the Landords ! Don't you Alwyn.

    • alwyn 9.1
      20 March 2020 at 11:59 am

      "Don't you Alwyn."

      Well NO actually. I'm afraid that your comment here is simply delusional. Do these hot flushes happen to you frequently? Try a cold shower.

    • Incognito 9.2
      20 March 2020 at 12:46 pm

      This neither the time nor place to launch personal attacks on other commenters here. If you have nothing nice to say, please say nothing. People who feel they need to ‘moderate’ here and can’t leave it to the real Moderators usually find themselves being moderated.

  10. Reality 10
    20 March 2020 at 12:19 pm

    Brigid – people are not stupid, as you arrogantly infer. There are many times when people are out and about and soap and water are not nearby. So better sanitiser, than nothing.

  11. Burt 11
    20 March 2020 at 12:33 pm

    How much did Labour have put aside in 2008 – zip… under your logic they fall into the ‘fuck them – they fall’ camp.

    [lprent: If you want to just lie, then I suggest you go back to kiwiblog. If you want to comment here and want to assert a fact then you need to support it with something credible. I’m really not interested in tolerating fuckwit trolls myth spinning (ie blatantly lying). You also need to stay at least roughly on the topic. This is your only warning because you are pretty well known to me due to past trolling. ]

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • stigie 11.1
      20 March 2020 at 12:57 pm

      We won, you lost, eat that !~

      [lprent: And that isn’t helpful either. Continue in that vein and I’m liable to lose you off the site. ]

  12. Andre 12
    20 March 2020 at 1:00 pm

    Grifters gonna grift. And Burr is generally regarded as one of the more ethical and principled Repug senators. Wonder what the rest are up to while hoping they don't get busted?

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/senator-richard-burr-coronavirus-stock_n_5e73e80dc5b6f5b7c5412d6c

  13. greywarshark 13
    20 March 2020 at 1:54 pm

    Interesting rah rah Social Credit? Has your time come?

    Bernard Hickey Recommends Using Social Credit Economic Policy

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2020/03/20/bernard-hickey-recommends-using-social-credit-economic-policy/

    Our Reserve Bank could go one step further and purchase newly issued government bonds directly, rather than existing bonds from banks, to provide the government with a source of debt-free, zero-interest money at no cost to taxpayers to fund a basic income as part of the economic rescue package.

    Using that method, taxpayers will not have to pick up the long term tab for billions in interest payments and the repayment of the debt which under standard QE simply provides bigger profits for the overseas shareholders of banks and other financial institutions.

    • SPC 13.1
      20 March 2020 at 1:57 pm

      Well it won't be inflationary.

      • SPC 13.1.1
        20 March 2020 at 4:45 pm

        And its the right way to finance government led activity when the capitalist system cannot cope/function/fails.

        • Brigid 13.1.1.1
          20 March 2020 at 5:00 pm

          Indeed!

          It's the right way to finance any government led activity at any time. Why increase banks' profits when there's no need.

  14. aj 14
    20 March 2020 at 4:20 pm

    Hand sanitiser is hard to get. I filled a spare empty window-spray bottle with liquid soap and water, and have it sitting in my car along with paper towels.

    Dead easy, a few squirts and you can wash your hands easily and dry them off. Don't let shortages of the alcohol based products deprive you of other ways of getting your hands clean if you are not at home. Cheaper too, just as effective, and recycling plastic into other uses. Ticks all the boxes.

    • mauī 14.1
      20 March 2020 at 4:53 pm

      I filled up an old household cleaning spray bottle with a few squirts of dishwashing liquid and the rest water. Sprayed down some high contact surfaces and hope that should work to kill the virus. I looked at spraying a dilute bleach solution, but it's strong stuff and I don't want to ruin any benchtops, stainless steel etc. I also thought about using disinfectant instead, but the stuff we have is 1% benzalkonium chloride, and there seems to be mixed views on that ingredient's effectiveness.

      • In Vino 14.1.1
        20 March 2020 at 7:41 pm

        As I understood, disinfectants kill bacteria but not viruses, so why bother?

        • Brigid 14.1.1.1
          20 March 2020 at 9:54 pm

          An alcohol based disinfectant is the best anti microbial. Non alcohol disinfectants (or hand sanitiser), which contain benzalkkonium chloride, are less effective.

          • In Vino 14.1.1.1.1
            20 March 2020 at 11:13 pm

            Have Googled, and now agree that alcohol-based is effective. Hope that internally applied alcohol is also effective!

  15. karol64 15
    20 March 2020 at 4:25 pm

    Not wishing to elbow anybody with regard to the extent and duration of this 2019 corona virus but it could still be lurking with vigor well in to 2021 or it may get a lot worse (like the Spanish flu of around 1918-1920 did). But at least for the moment, some still see a bit of humor in it and are showing esprit de corps, but if this drags on it will be devastating for a heavily dependent tourism economy such as NZ.

    Also, asking constitutional questions regarding executive (emergency) powers and suspension of general elections is a most valid deliberation. I would think that this type of emergency should not get in the way of standard democratic process come September unless it gets a lot worse and various political factions as parties or MP's are at loggerheads in relation to any further critical and affirmative actions needing to be taken.

    [Why are you using a different user name and e-mail address? Please explain – Incognito]

  16. Adam Ash 16
    20 March 2020 at 4:51 pm

    We carry a few dish cloths saturated in vinegar and detergent. Easy to use and launder. Pop into another bag after use to wash and refill. I keep a few pebbles in my pocket to press buttons with n toss away.

    • Robert Guyton 16.1
      20 March 2020 at 6:53 pm

      "I keep a few pebbles in my pocket to press buttons with n toss away."

      Now were talking'!

      • In Vino 16.1.1
        20 March 2020 at 7:26 pm

        Pebbles should NOT be tossed onto the floor around checkout points.. Where is the most ecologically favourable place to toss then into?
        (And remember, these are now probably infectious pebbles, and need a 14-day stand-down period..)

        ☺

  17. Eco Maori 17
    21 March 2020 at 6:31 pm

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    Yes we have to stay positive but be careful.

    Ka kite Ano

  18. Eco Maori 18
    21 March 2020 at 6:52 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    70 + years old are advised to stay home the younger tangata will need to help our Kau Matua with the kau Matua having to stay home they are our Taonga.
    Good on the tangata jogging for logging

    Ka kite Ano

  20. Eco Maori 20
    22 March 2020 at 6:29 pm

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    The students army are doing great mahi looking after people in self isolation.

    Ka kite Ano.

  21. Eco Maori 21
    22 March 2020 at 6:50 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    That's is good our government giving 56 million to help Tangata Whenua cope with the virus problem facing us.

    That's is good that the community helpline gave Te Tane the information he needed.

    Yes be calm.

    Ka kite Ano

  22. Eco Maori 22
    23 March 2020 at 8:46 am

    Kia Ora The Am Show.

    The positive things its raining our farmers needed rain and in Te Tai tokerau they need rain to.

    The Papatuanuku carbon footprint is falling fast thats great for our future and our environment.

    Time for A universal wage to build up Aotearoas internal economy.

    Ka kite Ano

  23. Eco Maori 23
    23 March 2020 at 6:29 pm

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    Yes life as we know it is changing rapidly.

    That was a cool view of Tawhirimate Ingrid.

    Ka kite Ano.

  24. Eco Maori 24
    23 March 2020 at 6:50 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    I we are going into level 4 restrictions to protect Te tangata from the virus. We must look after our love one's and give Aohai and be kind.

    It is quite hard for rual tangata to see a doctor these days especially if you don't own a Waka.

    Ka kite Ano.

  25. Eco Maori 25
    24 March 2020 at 8:43 am

    Kia Ora The Am Show.

    I walk my dog and keep away from people its so easy to read there body language.

    Our scientists warned us about the effects of a virus like this and just like global warming the people in charge chose to ignore it for the love of money and power.

    The taxpayers union is just a national party attack dog.????.

    Ka kite Ano

  26. Eco Maori 26
    24 March 2020 at 2:01 pm

    Since when does the Rotorua Council turn the water off with out giving noticing to the public.??????.

  27. Eco Maori 27
    24 March 2020 at 6:28 pm

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    That's good that nanny and care givers are going to be cleared to keep looking after tamariki.

    The rain can cause a lot of damage to whare that are not weather proofed.

    Ka kite Ano.

  28. Eco Maori 28
    24 March 2020 at 6:52 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    That is a good question what happens to our homeless people during the levels 4 lock down.

    Ka kite Ano.

  29. Eco Maori 29
    25 March 2020 at 8:46 am

    Kia Ora The Am Show.

    Condolences to Albert's whanau those Asterix and Obelix books were one of my favourite when I was a young.

    I will be helping educate our mokopuna and obey the lock down rules.

    Ka kite Ano

  30. Eco Maori 30
    25 March 2020 at 6:30 pm

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    No hunting and fishing.

    The wild Kai Moana will get a bit of pressure taken off them with the 4 week shut down in Aotearoa.

    Ka kite Ano

  31. Eco Maori 31
    25 March 2020 at 6:54 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    We need to be calm kind and careful. It is good that our government is looking at ways to help our homeless people.

    Its good that the authorities have worked with local Iwi so they can check people going into their rohi to protect their Kaumatua from the effects of the virus.

    Ka kite Ano.

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    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • Existential Crisis and Damaged Brains

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    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago
  • A speed limit is not a target, and yet…

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    Greater AucklandBy Guest Post
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  • The Kākā’s Pick 'n' Mix for Monday, July 22

    TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 7:00 am on Monday, July 22 are:Today’s Must Read: Father and son live in a tent, and have done for four years, in a million ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
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  • The Kākā’s Journal of Record for Monday, July 22

    TL;DR: As of 7:00 am on Monday, July 22, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:US President Joe Biden announced via X this morning he would not stand for a second term.Multinational professional services firm ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • 2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #29

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    6 days ago
  • I'd like to share what I did this weekend

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  • For the children – Why mere sentiment can be a misleading force in our lives, and lead to unex...

    National: The Party of ‘Law and Order’ IntroductionThis weekend, the Government formally kicked off one of their flagship policy programs: a military style boot camp that New Zealand has experimented with over the past 50 years. Cartoon credit: Guy BodyIt’s very popular with the National Party’s Law and Order image, ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
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  • A friend in uncertain times

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    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    6 days ago
  • The Chaotic World of Male Diet Influencers

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    6 days ago
  • It's Starting To Look A Lot Like… Y2K

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    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
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  • Bernard’s Saturday Soliloquy for the week to July 20

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  • Pharmac Director, Climate Change Commissioner, Health NZ Directors – The latest to quit this m...

    Summary:As New Zealand loses at least 12 leaders in the public service space of health, climate, and pharmaceuticals, this month alone, directly in response to the Government’s policies and budget choices, what lies ahead may be darker than it appears. Tui examines some of those departures and draws a long ...
    Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui
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  • Flooding Housing Policy

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  • A Voyage Among the Vandals: Accepted (Again!)

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  • The Kākā's Chorus for Friday, July 19

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    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago
  • The Kākā’s Pick 'n' Mix for Friday, July 19

    TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 8:30 am on Friday, July 19 are:Scoop: NZ First Minister Casey Costello orders 50% cut to excise tax on heated tobacco products. The minister has ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago
  • Weekly Roundup 19-July-2024

    Kia ora, it’s time for another Friday roundup, in which we pull together some of the links and stories that caught our eye this week. Feel free to add more in the comments! Our header image this week shows a foggy day in Auckland town, captured by Patrick Reynolds. ...
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  • Weekly Climate Wrap: A market-led plan for failure

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  • Tobacco First

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    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 week ago
  • Trump’s Adopted Son.

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  • The Kākā’s Journal of Record for Friday, July 19

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    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago
  • The Hoon around the week to July 19

    TL;DR: The podcast above of the weekly ‘hoon’ webinar for paying subscribers last night features co-hosts and talking with:The Kākā’s climate correspondent talking about the National-ACT-NZ First Government’s release of its first Emissions Reduction Plan;University of Otago Foreign Relations Professor and special guest Dr Karin von ...
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    1 week ago
  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #29 2024

    Open access notables Improving global temperature datasets to better account for non-uniform warming, Calvert, Quarterly Journal of the Royal Meteorological Society: To better account for spatial non-uniform trends in warming, a new GITD [global instrumental temperature dataset] was created that used maximum likelihood estimation (MLE) to combine the land surface ...
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    1 week ago

  • Joint statement from the Prime Ministers of Canada, Australia and New Zealand

    Australia, Canada and New Zealand today issued the following statement on the need for an urgent ceasefire in Gaza and the risk of expanded conflict between Hizballah and Israel. The situation in Gaza is catastrophic. The human suffering is unacceptable. It cannot continue.  We remain unequivocal in our condemnation of ...
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    17 hours ago
  • AG reminds institutions of legal obligations

    Attorney-General Judith Collins today reminded all State and faith-based institutions of their legal obligation to preserve records relevant to the safety and wellbeing of those in its care. “The Abuse in Care Inquiry’s report has found cases where records of the most vulnerable people in State and faith‑based institutions were ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    20 hours ago
  • More young people learning about digital safety

    Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says the Government’s online safety website for children and young people has reached one million page views.  “It is great to see so many young people and their families accessing the site Keep It Real Online to learn how to stay safe online, and manage ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    20 hours ago
  • Speech to the Conference for General Practice 2024

    Tēnā tātou katoa,  Ngā mihi te rangi, ngā mihi te whenua, ngā mihi ki a koutou, kia ora mai koutou. Thank you for the opportunity to be here and the invitation to speak at this 50th anniversary conference. I acknowledge all those who have gone before us and paved the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    22 hours ago
  • Employers and payroll providers ready for tax changes

    New Zealand’s payroll providers have successfully prepared to ensure 3.5 million individuals will, from Wednesday next week, be able to keep more of what they earn each pay, says Finance Minister Nicola Willis and Revenue Minister Simon Watts.  “The Government's tax policy changes are legally effective from Wednesday. Delivering this tax ...
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    1 day ago
  • Experimental vineyard futureproofs wine industry

    An experimental vineyard which will help futureproof the wine sector has been opened in Blenheim by Associate Regional Development Minister Mark Patterson. The covered vineyard, based at the New Zealand Wine Centre – Te Pokapū Wāina o Aotearoa, enables controlled environmental conditions. “The research that will be produced at the Experimental ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Funding confirmed for regions affected by North Island Weather Events

    The Coalition Government has confirmed the indicative regional breakdown of North Island Weather Event (NIWE) funding for state highway recovery projects funded through Budget 2024, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Regions in the North Island suffered extensive and devastating damage from Cyclone Gabrielle and the 2023 Auckland Anniversary Floods, and ...
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    1 day ago
  • Indonesian Foreign Minister to visit

    Indonesia’s Foreign Minister, Retno Marsudi, will visit New Zealand next week, Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced.   “Indonesia is important to New Zealand’s security and economic interests and is our closest South East Asian neighbour,” says Mr Peters, who is currently in Laos to engage with South East Asian partners. ...
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  • Strengthening partnership with Ngāti Maniapoto

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    2 days ago
  • Transport Minister thanks outgoing CAA Chair

    Transport Minister Simeon Brown has thanked outgoing Chair of the Civil Aviation Authority, Janice Fredric, for her service to the board.“I have received Ms Fredric’s resignation from the role of Chair of the Civil Aviation Authority,” Mr Brown says.“On behalf of the Government, I want to thank Ms Fredric for ...
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    2 days ago
  • Test for Customary Marine Title being restored

    The Government is proposing legislation to overturn a Court of Appeal decision and amend the Marine and Coastal Area Act in order to restore Parliament’s test for Customary Marine Title, Treaty Negotiations Minister Paul Goldsmith says.  “Section 58 required an applicant group to prove they have exclusively used and occupied ...
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    2 days ago
  • Opposition united in bad faith over ECE sector review

    Regulation Minister David Seymour says that opposition parties have united in bad faith, opposing what they claim are ‘dangerous changes’ to the Early Childhood Education sector, despite no changes even being proposed yet.  “Issues with affordability and availability of early childhood education, and the complexity of its regulation, has led ...
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    2 days ago
  • Kiwis having their say on first regulatory review

    After receiving more than 740 submissions in the first 20 days, Regulation Minister David Seymour is asking the Ministry for Regulation to extend engagement on the early childhood education regulation review by an extra two weeks.  “The level of interest has been very high, and from the conversations I’ve been ...
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    2 days ago
  • Government upgrading Lower North Island commuter rail

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    2 days ago
  • Government moves to ensure flood protection for Wairoa

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    3 days ago
  • PM speech to Parliament – Royal Commission of Inquiry’s Report into Abuse in Care

    Mr Speaker, this is a day that many New Zealanders who were abused in State care never thought would come. It’s the day that this Parliament accepts, with deep sorrow and regret, the Report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care.  At the heart of this report are the ...
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  • Government acknowledges torture at Lake Alice

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    3 days ago
  • Government acknowledges courageous abuse survivors

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    3 days ago
  • Half a million people use tax calculator

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    3 days ago
  • Paid Parental Leave improvements pass first reading

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    3 days ago
  • Rebuilding the economy through better regulation

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    3 days ago
  • ‘Open banking’ and ‘open electricity’ on the way

    New legislation paves the way for greater competition in sectors such as banking and electricity, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly says. “Competitive markets boost productivity, create employment opportunities and lift living standards. To support competition, we need good quality regulation but, unfortunately, a recent OECD report ranked New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Charity lotteries to be permitted to operate online

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    4 days ago
  • Accelerating Northland Expressway

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    4 days ago
  • Sir Don to travel to Viet Nam as special envoy

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    4 days ago
  • Grant Illingworth KC appointed as transitional Commissioner to Royal Commission

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    4 days ago
  • NZ to advance relationships with ASEAN partners

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    4 days ago
  • Backing mental health services on the West Coast

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    4 days ago
  • NZ support for sustainable Pacific fisheries

    New Zealand is committing nearly $50 million to a package supporting sustainable Pacific fisheries development over the next four years, Foreign Minister Winston Peters and Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones announced today. “This support consisting of a range of initiatives demonstrates New Zealand’s commitment to assisting our Pacific partners ...
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    4 days ago
  • Students’ needs at centre of new charter school adjustments

    Associate Education Minister David Seymour says proposed changes to the Education and Training Amendment Bill will ensure charter schools have more flexibility to negotiate employment agreements and are equipped with the right teaching resources. “Cabinet has agreed to progress an amendment which means unions will not be able to initiate ...
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    4 days ago
  • Commissioner replaces Health NZ Board

    In response to serious concerns around oversight, overspend and a significant deterioration in financial outlook, the Board of Health New Zealand will be replaced with a Commissioner, Health Minister Dr Shane Reti announced today.  “The previous government’s botched health reforms have created significant financial challenges at Health NZ that, without ...
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    5 days ago
  • Minister to speak at Australian Space Forum

    Minister for Space and Science, Innovation and Technology Judith Collins will travel to Adelaide tomorrow for space and science engagements, including speaking at the Australian Space Forum.  While there she will also have meetings and visits with a focus on space, biotechnology and innovation.  “New Zealand has a thriving space ...
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    5 days ago
  • Climate Change Minister to attend climate action meeting in China

    Climate Change Minister Simon Watts will travel to China on Saturday to attend the Ministerial on Climate Action meeting held in Wuhan.  “Attending the Ministerial on Climate Action is an opportunity to advocate for New Zealand climate priorities and engage with our key partners on climate action,” Mr Watts says. ...
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    5 days ago
  • Oceans and Fisheries Minister to Solomons

    Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is travelling to the Solomon Islands tomorrow for meetings with his counterparts from around the Pacific supporting collective management of the region’s fisheries. The 23rd Pacific Islands Forum Fisheries Committee and the 5th Regional Fisheries Ministers’ Meeting in Honiara from 23 to 26 July ...
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    7 days ago
  • Government launches Military Style Academy Pilot

    The Government today launched the Military Style Academy Pilot at Te Au rere a te Tonga Youth Justice residence in Palmerston North, an important part of the Government’s plan to crackdown on youth crime and getting youth offenders back on track, Minister for Children, Karen Chhour said today. “On the ...
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    7 days ago
  • Nine priority bridge replacements to get underway

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    1 week ago
  • Update on global IT outage

    Acting Prime Minister David Seymour has been in contact throughout the evening with senior officials who have coordinated a whole of government response to the global IT outage and can provide an update. The Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet has designated the National Emergency Management Agency as the ...
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    1 week ago
  • New Zealand, Japan renew Pacific partnership

    New Zealand and Japan will continue to step up their shared engagement with the Pacific, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.    “New Zealand and Japan have a strong, shared interest in a free, open and stable Pacific Islands region,” Mr Peters says.    “We are pleased to be finding more ways ...
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    1 week ago
  • New infrastructure energises BOP forestry towns

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    1 week ago
  • 'Pacific Futures'

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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

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