Open mike 20/04/2020

Written By: - Date published: 8:05 am, April 20th, 2020 - 99 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

99 comments on “Open mike 20/04/2020 ”

  1. Tricledrown 1

    Winston Peter's is risking the vast majority of his support the elderly if he pushes for an early exit from lockdown.

    • Enough is Enough 1.1

      There won't be an early exit from lockdown for the elderly.

      They stay locked up and essentially quarantined until level 1.

    • KJT 1.2

      Not an NZF fan, but the Herald headline was rather different from the actual statement he made.

      We need actual Journalists, not the idiots that the media seem to increasingly, employ.

  2. Ad 2

    Great to see South Korea completing a Presidential election over the weekend, with all the health and safety measures in place.

    Hope we get some close observer reports out of it, to see what we will need to do here in 5 months time.

  3. XRN 3

    My guess is 70% chance of extending Level 4 for another 2 weeks. Even if the only criterion was the numbers of new/probable cases on the MOH media release page every day. No one in their right mind would stop so close to the "ultimate goal". You'd have to have a really good argument against the numbers, even if they were complete fabrications. It'd have to be something along the lines of "people are going to die anyway", like during a war. The still unconfirmed idea that there will be no immunity is not enough. In uncertain conditions where you can buy time, you buy time.

    Level 3 now would make the whole lockdown pointless. From the government's POV, a lift would allow doubts that "not enough was done", and those doubts recirculated later on would lose them the election. Schools are not ready, and you cannot have people deciding whether or not to return to normal life during a crisis, based on peer pressure, their personal finance fears, and media whims. The government would've lost control of the entire process. Level 3 can only be a few days transition period, after the prep work is done in Level 4.

    Personally, I would not have gone to Level 4, for reasons I don't need to explain because I am not the government. Simply from a political pov, if they lift it now, it's the end of them, and maybe the end of a lot of other people.

    • observer 3.1

      Your last sentence is strange.

      You don't "need to explain", but to say level 3 means the end of the government and (more importantly) a lot of other people doesn't make much sense.

  4. AB 4

    Made the mistake of flicking on the tv and watching Duncan Garner this a.m. And learnt that Paul Henry is returning to our screens tonight in a show called 'Rebuilding Paradise'. It sounds like a propaganda effort to make sure nothing fundamentally changes economically as we come out of the C-19 crisis. And probably accompanied by lots of soft, patriotic nonsense about how great we all are in our efforts to get on top of the virus and we just need to get back to way we were which was fantastic, i.e. all problems have been solved, history has ended etc. etc. We are going to get this sh*te in waves from the usual directions.

    • gsays 4.1

      In regards to Paul Henry this is the approach I am taking: eradication. Not to watch Mediaworks until that virus is wiped out.

      My meagre TV watching will not dent the ratings, but if we all isolate ourselves from this malaise then it will run out of lounge rooms to occupy and disappear.

      It is not as if Mediaworks is shy of another male, pale and stale point of view…

    • Incognito 4.2

      Rebuilding Paradise = double misnomer

      More like Restarting Recycling or Run Back to the Rat Race or Shopaholics Anonymous Storm Malls or Obese Attack Take-Aways or Freedom Regained to Fuck It Up Again and Even Faster This Time.

      Rant over.

      • Andre 4.2.1

        My body-mass index is 24.9. I'm desperately hanging out for some seriously life-shortening pepperoni pizza. Beware of denying me!

        • Incognito 4.2.1.1

          Your BMI is fine as long as long as you’re fit & healthy and don’t carry too much visceral fat in the mid-region. Pick your vice 😉

          • In Vino 4.2.1.1.1

            Regardless of visceral fatuity, exactly what paradise is Pawl Henrewy trying to restore? As I remember, we had a lot of problems, and only Maserati-drivers like Hoskings thought we were in paradisiac Golden Days – until he crashed his car. (Or was it a Lambo?)

        • mac1 4.2.1.2

          Andre, your distress moves me to offer this recipe. Onto a pizza base (can be home made or store bought) put a thick hummus layer and then place sliced fresh figs and slices of chorizo sausage on top, sprinkle with grated pizza cheese mix and cook. Do this twice. Once is not enough. I am about to try blue cheese in the mix.

  5. joe90 5

    An astro-turf campaign strategy that kills.

    https://twitter.com/SarahTaber_bww/status/1251902219970101250

    https://twitter.com/JYSexton/status/1251193243364188160

    They point to emerging signs around the country. Trump-supported activists are protesting strict stay-at-home orders. Conservative groups’ internal polling in red-leaning and swing states show a significant uptick in Americans who favor reopening the country. A growing chorus of Republican lawmakers across the nation are on board.

    “If you don't see something start to happen … you’re going to see a conservative revolt by our base,” said Adam Brandon, president of FreedomWorks, a conservative group which recently polled on reopening the economy. “The worst strategy for him is to keep things shut until August. Trump is basically going to win or lose his election right now, in the next month.”

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/18/trump-reopening-economy-193885

    • AB 5.1

      The smart move for Trump is to not actually try to force a re-opening (thus keeping actual deaths trending downwards), but constantly agitate, dog-whistle and blame Democratic Governors for not opening (thus keeping his base fired up). A while ago he claimed 'absolute authority' as President – but he can easily turn on a dime and say that he doesn't have absolute authority after all, and so can't force a re-opening.

      Because the pre-Covid economy was deliberately designed to leave many people precarious anyway, many will be hurting very badly now. So the desire to re-open is most likely coming from across the political divide, not just from hard-line MAGA types.

    • Wensleydale 5.2

      I don't know if someone's already posted this, but this Reddit thread makes for interesting reading. Read the entry by Dr_Midnight regarding his detective work around the blatant astroturfing.

      Fun With Astroturfing

      All these websites and organisations pop up overnight, and Trump starts crapping on about 'liberating' states from the tyranny of quarantine. What a happy coincidence.

  6. Enough is Enough 6

    Today is the 20th of the month. The day when most business invoices become due for payment.

    The country has been under lockdown for just about 4 weeks now, so the ability for business to pay their bills will really be tested today. If there is widespread default, then the screams from business to reopen will become very loud over the next week.

    • Foreign waka 6.1

      Here is something to ponder, every business has to have a business contingency plan. Surely any accountant worth their salt would advise on that? This is not just a plan where the emergency exit is but also financial back up and insurance for income loss. If they don't than they haven't done their homework as this is applicable also to a/ an earthquake, b/ death or illness c/ fire, d/ other unforeseen circumstances.

      Besides, businesses have been able to dip into the taxpayer funded support package in support of employee expenses. Mind you, I hear that a few businesses – and not small ones – are making stuff redundant after claiming support. There is a saying: Trust is good, control is better. Beneficiaries would certainly not get away with any fraud.

      It remains to be seen whether any checks will be made and fraud will be found out. I am already having a cynical grin.

      • Enough is Enough 6.1.1

        The point is, if a business doesn't get paid because its customer has gone into liquidation, was poorly managed, or simply has no cash, then through no fault of their own, they become the business that can't pay its creditors, and so it spirals.

        That is the reality. Its peoples' lives, homes, dreams and mental health that are being damaged.

        But we can just sit here and say tough shit. You should have had a contingency.

    • Janet 6.2

      The only default for me has been I CAN,T log in to pay my monthly accounts and when I ring the help number I get because of Loak – down our hours are now only 9.00am – 5.00pm !!!!! So much for contactless banking with ASB

  7. RedBaronCV 7

    I see Stuff is asking for donations. I'd like a lot more disclosure before I'd even think about it. Have they set up a staff cooperative, have they killed all the big buck salaries and directors fees, are they going to stop pushing the RW agenda …

    • I Feel Love 7.1

      My thoughts exactly when I got the donate prompt.

    • AB 7.2

      Heh – good luck with getting answers on those questions. When the possibility of a 'media bailout' was raised in one of the press conferences, not one journo asked the PM the obvious question – since commercial media has been consistently hostile to the Labour Party for decades, why would they bale it out, or what conditions might they impose on such a bailout? So far the PM has said a couple of interesting things about any media bailout – that the media had "pre-existing conditions" and that it is important to maintain a "plurality of voices". I hope these statements are good signs – because a "plurality of voices" is absolutely something we did not have pre-Covid.

    • indiana 7.3

      If in their disclosure they did agree to stop pushing the RW agenda, but kept all the big buck salaries, would that entice you to donate?

      • RedBaronCV 7.3.1

        Big buck salaries are a feature of RW agendas so nope. It would be a cosmetic change only – despite the facelift the body remains the same age so to speak.

        I want to support journalists doing the fearless enquiry thing – particularly at business government and local government level.

        As a consumer of media, particularly business news, the current model is patchy. A good number of our best journalists – hardly surprising – no longer work in the mainstream but off a website. Older journalists still in mainstream tend to be shock jocks or ranters and are hardly a diverse group. The younger journalists have been largely brought up on the RW kool aid and don't seem to know how to ask a question to save themselves if the 1p.m press conferences are anything to judge by. They seem to want to be the news not find it. Facts are a poor second in most stories.

        Anyway, it's difficult for me as a consumer to support all the websites that give me a broad range of news. I could support 1-2 but more than that gets hard. So I'd quite like to pay a fee that gives me access to a number sites across a range of topics.

        Another concern is business news. If this becomes largely, by more expensive subscription, access to the knowledge is assymetrical which can impede the free flow of knowledge to ensure that something like the stockmarket works for all.

        Reading a daily newspaper/site I also find expands my horizon in that I will browse an article of something outside my direct interests if it catches my eye.

      • Gabby 7.3.2

        You agree they push a rightwing agenda.

    • JanM 7.4

      Why on earth would we make donations to an australian owned company?

    • UncookedSelachimorpha 7.5

      I'd support Newsroom or The Spinoff first I think (not to mention RNZ!)

  8. Tricledrown 8

    Enough is Enough Banks have been backed by the govt to free up money to keep businesses afloat.Will they fund businesses only those with viable futures I suspect.

  9. pat 9

    "Treasurer Josh Frydenberg said a mandatory code would help "level the playing field" by requiring digital platforms such as Google and Facebook to pay news media businesses for the content they produce.

    "It's only fair that those that generate content get paid for it," Frydenberg said."

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/414634/australian-government-tells-facebook-and-google-to-pay-for-news

    A model to emulate?

    • RedBaronCV 9.1

      I wouldn't want to wind up funding conspiracy theory click bait sites or government propoganda sites ( shape shifting reptiles?) so I think any funds distribution back to content providers would need some rules ( below to a journalist organisation ? or the facebook disinformation cycle could get worse.

  10. greywarshark 10

    This for your delectation a comment from TDB yesterday that is like a cartoon in words from Mike Hosking, you have to imagine them framed in froth and spittle:

    The Daily Blog – Dear Brothers & Sisters of NZ – we are almost through lockdown and history salutes you for two reasons:

    [Comment] Mike Hosking April 19, 2020 at 12:55 pm

    What a load of rubbish. The limited number of deaths and infections in NZ shows that this was a beat up from the start. Jacinda’s weak and inexperienced leadership has led to economic devastation. The Government has been outwardly hostile to business owners and has used COVID19 as an opportunity to push its extreme agenda of increasing benefits. In addition, it has unashamedly targeted gun owners.

    This wouldn’t have happened under a John Key-led government.

  11. Fireblade 12

    Covid-19 in the U.S. April 19, 2020, 8:15 P.M (ET).

    Positive cases: 753,035
    (2,294.2 per 1 mil people)

    Deaths: 40,552
    (123.5 per 1 mil people)

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVvg86dXYAUNw9L?format=jpg&name=medium

      • mauī 12.1.1

        The Dems perpetual scream continues.

        • joe90 12.1.1.1

          And you'll never shake the Planet Piza/Qaon stupidity virus.

          /

          No, what made me so sick – so uncomfortable – was the sense that something had to have gone horribly wrong in this world to have put me in this voyeuristic situation. But however wrong it felt, I kept going. I felt like I had to.

          The claim that the Podesta emails proved that the Democrats and their cohorts were secretly involved in some sort of satanic pedophile cult is repeated far and wide across the internet: from the most esoteric QAnon followers and the culture-warrior MAGA moms on twitter, to casual FOX News viewers you meet on the street.

          This lie has made its way through far left circles as well, eager for a narrative that demonizes the Democratic establishment. This is arguably why many who supported Bernie in the 2016 primaries found it impossible to vote for Hillary in the general election.

          https://jurneywrites.wordpress.com/2020/04/17/pizzagate-and-the-research-that-nobody-wanted-to-do/amp/

  12. Janet 13

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12326124

    “ Drury's plan to allow foreign billionaires to build bolt-holes in New Zealand is one of several ideas he will present to Parliament's Epidemic Response Committee on Thursday.”

    Trying to sneak rich mates into NZ while we are in turmoil…..no, no, no.

    • Stunned Mullet 13.1

      Disagree – I have no issue with them coming here as long as they spend a truck load of their cash and don't bring any COVID-19 with them.

      • Gabby 13.1.1

        Specially if they spend it on election advertising, amiright?

        • Stunned Mullet 13.1.1.1

          🙄 No, my preference is that they would spend it in and on the community they live in when in NZ and on wider investment into manufacturing, tech and even primary produce.

          • KJT 13.1.1.1.1

            Except they will just bid up the prices of existing assets and land. Then take the profits away, again.

            Despite the myths, the wealthy are not into entrepreneurial risks, with their own money.

      • Andre 13.1.2

        They might not be that keen on coming if their first two weeks here is cooped up in a hotel room with a grocery bag of provisions pushed through a slot in the door every now and then.

        • Stunned Mullet 13.1.2.1

          You never know I would've thought there'd be no shortage of nice hotels to provide high end lockdown if you were prepared to drop an extra 20k a day into the pot, or for those that already have a holiday home here they could isolate there no doubt ?

          Really can't see an issue in taking money from billionaires who want to spend their money here ?

          • Andre 13.1.2.1.1

            Well, the point of a quarantine is to eliminate contact with locals so that the new arrival can't pass on whatever they've brought in with them. As a group, billionaires tend to be in close-ish contact with a wide variety of people in their daily lives, so they'd actually be kinda high-risk of being carriers relative to the general population.

            So from a public health view, I'd be especially wary of creating loopholes for them. Particularly if it means the people they would come into contact with are themselves likely to be in contact with a large group of other people.

          • lprent 13.1.2.1.2

            Except billionaires, who are so crass as not to actually do any real work, probably won’t like the guards placed on them to prevent them acting like spoilt children. You only have to point to Trump as a public exemplar.

            I bet they won’t like the prisons we toss them in, after the idiots do something to endanger kiwis. I’d suggest reopening Mt Eden prison for the purpose. It has the penitent feel to it.

        • Gabby 13.1.2.2

          That wouldn't be the rule for exalted ones, surely.

      • Incognito 13.1.3

        I don’t have a problem with rich tourists as long as they only leave their footprints behind when they leave.

        • Stunned Mullet 13.1.3.1

          Why would it be so terrible if they left some of the substantial funds invested in NZ ?

          • Incognito 13.1.3.1.1

            Because it would be disaster Capitalism with a capital “C”. How much of the profits would go off-shore? Who sets the agenda and makes the decisions and in whose interest? Do we get to keep the tips? If you know what I think about this, read my recent Post on it. You can’t miss it as it has a photo of nice wee birdies circling above.

            I’d favour partnership models with shared risk and a restriction that all new investments remain NZ owned and operated for at least 51% at all time. This country needs to protect itself from becoming a flea market for bargain-hunting wealthy ones looking for some kind of fire sale.

            • Stunned Mullet 13.1.3.1.1.1

              If you know what I think about this, read my recent Post on it.

              I just had a quick scan through..

              I’d favour partnership models with shared risk and a restriction that all new investments remain NZ owned and operated for at least 51% at all time. This country needs to protect itself from becoming a flea market for bargain-hunting wealthy ones looking for some kind of fire sale.

              Sure no problem with that for existing businesses although you'll have some push back with privately owned enterprises at the moment who will reasonably ask why the shouldn't be allowed to sell to whoever they want as long as it's within the OIO rules.

              For greenfield investment I personally have no issue with the investor having 100% ownership as long as it passes OIO scrutiny – especially where it offers significant local employment/infrastructure/investment/export opportunities – understand that many will take a different view – that 's fine.

              • Incognito

                Well, you’ve highlighted one of the problems, which is that Kiwis are priced out of their own market. At a fundamental level, I think that is not something that should be continued and encouraged.

                As usual, the ones with deep pockets get ear-time with politicians. Is ERC going to interview some owner-operator of a small eatery on how they feel about some cashed-up folk jetting in and buying up large of property and businesses?

                Set some very clear and firm rules around foreign investment and make sure it is tilted in favour of New Zealand and not towards the investors primarily. It shouldn’t be just about the money but a clear and genuine commitment to New Zealand and the people who live here.

                Here you go, they can tick this box: https://www.mbie.govt.nz/science-and-technology/science-and-innovation/agencies-policies-and-budget-initiatives/vision-matauranga-policy/

                • KJT

                  Already see the problems, with Ozzie shopping mall owners, refusing to freeze rents for small business tenants, who can't do business.

                  It's not like they aren't receiving any. Their anchor tenants, supermarkets,

                  are still paying rent.

                  You would think with all the millions they've taken out of New Zealand they could carry it for five weeks, rather than "The Government", paying it.

                  Where are the "tax payers Union" when you need them?

                  • Incognito

                    We’re becoming a nation of mall rats if small retailers and shops in the main street go under.

                    • KJT

                      If our local shops are any indication, it has already happened.

                      Most have long gone. Replaced by $2 shops and coffee shops.

                      The ridiculous rental rates, commercial landlords still expect doesn’t help. It seems they would rather “land bank” empty shops, than meet the rent small businesses can pay.

                      The malls, all with the same franchises and big stores, are bloody boring.

                      But the shift to online and malls, and consolidation of retail under a few big brands, I think was inevitable. This is just speeding the process up.

                      I don't have to like it though. It is even more money being extracted from communities, to outside shareholders and finance.

                    • Incognito []

                      Malls are capitalist sewers occupied by people toiling for a minimum wage or close to it and visited by people with plastic fantastic and bulgy eyes keen to satisfy their compulsive consumerism and hedonistic hunger and insatiable appetite for junk food. They are a blot on what used to be a community-minded and –spirited society and a danger for general health.

      • weka 13.1.4

        nope, they can fuck off. They end up with disproportionate influence and it's the last thing we need right now.

        • AB 13.1.4.1

          "disproportionate influence"

          Yes – that's the key point. And that influence is both economic and political and applies to the domestically-grown super-wealthy also.

      • Janet 13.1.5

        Try listening to this link when you have time …its quite long …then tell me what you think

        https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCI-Am0t4qQaP_Do9FwMWw3Q

        • Stunned Mullet 13.1.5.1

          A 2015 Soros-funded think tank predicted a 2020 breakdown of the global food supply following an outbreak — just as Bill Gates' 2019 "event 201" simulated a global pandemic. Why are multiple billionaires been speaking to outbreaks and food insecurity in 2020? Because Agenda 21/2030 isn't just a name: it's a war on all of us, and it has gone HOT.

          I got 5 minutes in and gave up …sorry looks like nonsense to me

          https://massawakening.org/how-does-agenda-21-is-being-implemented-worldwide/

  13. joe90 14

    Not too sure how effective this would be, but when you really need to cover up.

    https://twitter.com/gryking/status/1245919661276819458

    • weka 14.1

      That's very cool. In terms of not spreading droplets this is probably as good as many of the handmade masks being sewn. Maybe better given the seal. Issues in terms of taking on and off though.

  14. Cinny 15

    Feeling mighty proud of our PM, thanks Jacinda.

    The accolades for her are flying via twitter.

  15. Muttonbird 16

    Why doesn't Porky the government waste pig spread out and harass all top earners for their salary?

    That too is "our money", is it not?

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/121103143/topearning-auckland-officials-targeted-in-lobby-groups-nameandshame

    • RedBaronCV 16.1

      Yes they should go after the big earners where the company has taken the wage subsidies. But they are using this as a diversionary tactic to take the heat off the RW that have their hand out while preserving their own position. They are very very scared of the higher taxes coming their way. Needy people.

      I think I may feel the need very soon to help The Warehouse with their financial projections to enable some load spreading and put it on here. I see they are TV advertising – suspect they have had some negative comment about their grab to stay open so are trying to fix their reputation.

    • AB 17.1

      That – or make the clarion call to: "Liberate Tauranga! Liberate Westport! Liberate Waipukurau!

  16. joe90 18

    Are we excluding businesses that shift their tax obligations offshore?

    Denmark extended the duration of its aid programs to businesses and workers and added some new measures to increase spending by about 100 billion kroner ($15 billion).

    […]

    The government also said that companies which pay out dividends, buy back own shares or are registered in tax havens won’t be eligible for any of the aid programs, which now amount to a total of 400 billion kroner, when including loans and guarantees.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-18/denmark-extends-business-aid-to-increase-spending-by-15-billion

    The prime minister also said that one aim of the support was to help Polish firms protect themselves from being “squeezed by foreign entities, including Chinese companies”.

    “We cannot allow this,” said Morawiecki, adding that large firms only qualify for support if they pay taxes in Poland. “Let’s end tax havens, which are the bane of modern economies.”

    https://notesfrompoland.com/2020/04/08/poland-launches-e22-billion-support-package-for-firms-in-effort-to-save-up-to-5-million-jobs/

  17. Eco Maori 19

    Kia Ora The Am Show.

    Earth day cool mother Earth will be breathing easier now a lot of carbon has not entered our environment during virus isolation.

    I say we invest in our future a energy efficient future create mahi around that and once things calm down in the near future we won't have to export all our gains from Aotearoa natural resources to the rest of the world. Our 2 biggest trading partners are also mitigating the virus problems better than most .

    Ka kite Ano

  18. Eco Maori 20

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    All the opposition supporters trying to use the virus as a tool to dent our government come on.

    That's is awesome people making donations to keep that wildlife park afloat.

    Gypsies day Its good that the virus isolation is not going to effect it negatively.

    Ka kite Ano.

  19. Eco Maori 21

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    There you go some will call any brown face a gang member.

    Sports is awesome for Te tangata and te tamariki.

    Using the Internet and devices to help Tangata navigate the virus isolation Ka pai.

    Tangata Whenua O Aotearoa made a big contribution to the 2 world wars I have more knowledge on why so many Maori went to fight.

    Ka kite Ano

  20. Eco Maori 22

    Kia Ora The Am Show.

    Flue spread has been minimized by people being isolated.

    The government is not putting our tamariki at risk its called minimiseing the risk and keeping the country functioning some countries are pridicted to run out of Kai.

    Yes its A big reset Aotearoa will have to create employment for the local people.

    Ka kite Ano 🖕

  21. Eco Maori 23

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    I say a stimulis program should be targeted to flow through the economy.

    Cool that people will be able to go hunting when we go down to alert level 3.

    Marketing Aotearoa secess is best
    It would be good if a good % of people could work from home.

    Ka kite Ano

    • Eco Maori 23.1

      Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

      Sounds like contracting the virus is quite painful and draining it's great that It has been minimized in Aotearoa.

      Ka kite Ano

      • Eco Maori 23.1.1

        Kia Ora The Am Show.

        One only has to look around the world to see why some people are worried about coming out of level 4 isolation.

        Correct it's not on making threats to people and their Whanau.

        That is cool sending that boy who was being bullied because of his name a typewriter.

        Ka kite Ano

  22. Eco Maori 24

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    Sure sounds like he was not taking his job seriously.

    Come on that will sent any living thing to the upper dimension.

    Ka kite Ano.

  23. Eco Maori 25

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    That is awesome the Tane marching in Gisborne.

    Times have changed everyone will know that it doesn't take much to rock our World we should be grateful and care for her and her creatures more.

    Ka pai to the virus testings at Marae.

    King fish farming gifting their fish Awsome.

    Ka kite Ano

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